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Carrying a Shuttle to retirement
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Greg Goss
May 30, 2012, 1:20:45 PM5/30/12
to
This came over one of my email lists today. I trimmed off my source's
comments, but left the last two headers indicating its provenance.
--------------------------------------------------------
This was circulated in email at work, from United Technologies
corporate.
--------------------------------------------------------
A quick "trip report" from the pilot of the 747 that flew the shuttle
back to Florida after the Hubble repair flight. A humorous and
interesting inside look at what it's like to fly two aircraft at once
. . .
(I have decided to adopt one of "Triple Nickel's" phrases : "That was
too close for MY laundry!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Walt and all,
Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 with the shuttle
Atlantis on top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I have to
say that my whole mind, body and soul went into the professional mode
just before engine start in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it
all needed to be, until well after the flight...in fact, I am not sure
if it is all back to normal as I type this email. The experience was
surreal. Seeing that "thing" on top of an already overly huge aircraft
boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to engine shutdown was
unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a dream...someone else's
dream.
We took off from Columbus AFB on their 12,000 foot runway, of which I
used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the ground. We were at
3,500 feet left to go of the runway, throttles full power, nose wheels
still hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision speeds, the
weight of Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched tightly
on the controls, tires heating up to their near maximum temperature
from the speed and the weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the
speed at which I would be pulling on the controls to get the nose to
rise. I just could not wait, and I mean I COULD NOT WAIT, and started
pulling early. If I had waited until rotation speed, we would not have
rotated enough to get airborne by the end of the runway. So I pulled
on the controls early and started our rotation to the takeoff
attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as we passed over the stripe
marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle (physically) was a
line of trees 1,000 feet off the departure end of Runway 16. All I
knew was we were flying and so I directed the gear to be retracted and
the flaps to be moved from Flaps 20 to Flaps 10 as I pulled even
harder on the controls. I must say, those trees were beginning to look
a lot like those brushes in the drive through car washes so I pulled
even harder yet! I think I saw a bird just fold its wings and fall out
of a tree as if to say "Oh just take me". Okay, we cleared the trees,
duh, but it was way too close for my laundry. As we started to
actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I smelled something that
reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in Europe ....I said "is
that a skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle carrying looked at
me and smiled and said "Tires"! I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They smiled
and shook their heads as if to call their Captain an amateur...okay,
at that point I was. The! E tire s were so hot you could smell them in
the cockpit. My mind could not get over, from this point on, that this
was something I had never experienced. Where's your mom when you
REALLY need her?
The flight down to Florida was an eternity. We cruised at 250 knots
indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground speed at 15,000'. The
miles didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by in a fighter
jet at MACH .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 pounds per
hour or 130 pounds per mile, or one gallon every length of the
fuselage. The vibration in the cockpit was mild, compared to down
below and to the rear of the fuselage where it reminded me of that
football game I had as a child where you turned it on and the players
vibrated around the board. I felt like if I had plastic clips on my
boots I could have vibrated to any spot in the fuselage I wanted to go
without moving my legs...and the noise was deafening. The 747 flies
with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to stay level, and when you
bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say "hey, let's roll
completely over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling myself.
SO I limited my bank angle to 15 degrees and even though a 180 degree
course change took a full zip code to complete, it was the safe way to
turn this monster.
Airliners and even a flight of two F-16s deviated from their flight
plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We dodged what was in
reality very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone thought, and
arrived in Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to land with.
We can't land heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we had
to do something with that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow
and show this beast off to all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough
to be outside on that Tuesday afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let
down to 1,000 feet above the ground/water and flew just east of the
beach out over the water Then, once we reached the NASA airspace of
the Kennedy Space Center, we cut over to the Banana/Indian Rivers and
flew down the middle of them to show the people of Titusville, Port
St.Johns and Melbourne just what a 747 with a shuttle on it looked
like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we were dragging our flaps at
"Flaps 5", our speed was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We could see
traffic stopping in the middle of roads to take a look. We heard later
that a Little League Baseball game stop to look and everyone cheered
as we became their 7th inning stretch. Oh say can you see...
After reaching Vero Beach , we turned north to follow the coast line
back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). There was not one
person laying on the beach...they were all standing and waving! "What
a sight" I thought...and figured they were thinking the same thing.
All this time I was bugging the engineers, all three of them, to
re-compute our fuel and tell me when it was time to land. They kept
saying "Not yet Triple, keep showing this thing off" which was not a
bad thing to be doing. However, all this time the thought that the
landing, the muscling of this 600,000 pound beast, was getting closer
and closer to my reality. I was pumped up! We got back to the SLF and
were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to land so I said I was going to do
a low approach over the SLF going the opposite direction of landing
traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the runway, rocking our
wings like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to the people
looking on! One turn out of traffic and back to the runway to
land...still 3,000 pounds over gross weight limit. But the engineers
agreed that if the landing were smooth, there would be no problem. "Oh
thanks guys, a little extra pressure is just what I needed!" So we
landed at 603,000 pounds and very smoothly if I have to say so myself.
The landing was so totally controlled and on speed, that it was fun.
There were a few surprises that I dealt with, like the 747 falls like
a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the throttles off at the
"normal" point in a landing and secondly, if you thought you could
hold the nose off the ground after the mains touch down, think
again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! So I "flew it down" to the ground and
saved what I have seen in videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's
video supports this! :8-)
Then I turned on my phone after coming to a full stop only to find 50
bazillion emails and phone messages from all of you who were so super
to be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I can't thank y'all
enough. For those who watched, you wondered why we sat there so long.
Well, the shuttle had very hazardous chemicals on board and we had to
be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or were leaking. They
checked for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) and nitrogen
tetroxide (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way too long
for them to tow us in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who
stuck it out and even waited until we exited the jet.
I am sure I will wake up in the middle of the night here soon,
screaming and standing straight up dripping wet with sweat from the
realization of what had happened. It was a thrill of a lifetime. Again
I want to thank everyone for your interest and support. It felt good
to bring Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so hard
getting to the Hubble Space Telescope and back.
Triple Nickel
NASA Pilot
Captain Henri D. (pianoman)
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.
comments, but left the last two headers indicating its provenance.
--------------------------------------------------------
This was circulated in email at work, from United Technologies
corporate.
--------------------------------------------------------
A quick "trip report" from the pilot of the 747 that flew the shuttle
back to Florida after the Hubble repair flight. A humorous and
interesting inside look at what it's like to fly two aircraft at once
. . .
(I have decided to adopt one of "Triple Nickel's" phrases : "That was
too close for MY laundry!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Walt and all,
Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 with the shuttle
Atlantis on top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I have to
say that my whole mind, body and soul went into the professional mode
just before engine start in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it
all needed to be, until well after the flight...in fact, I am not sure
if it is all back to normal as I type this email. The experience was
surreal. Seeing that "thing" on top of an already overly huge aircraft
boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to engine shutdown was
unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a dream...someone else's
dream.
We took off from Columbus AFB on their 12,000 foot runway, of which I
used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the ground. We were at
3,500 feet left to go of the runway, throttles full power, nose wheels
still hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision speeds, the
weight of Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched tightly
on the controls, tires heating up to their near maximum temperature
from the speed and the weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the
speed at which I would be pulling on the controls to get the nose to
rise. I just could not wait, and I mean I COULD NOT WAIT, and started
pulling early. If I had waited until rotation speed, we would not have
rotated enough to get airborne by the end of the runway. So I pulled
on the controls early and started our rotation to the takeoff
attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as we passed over the stripe
marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle (physically) was a
line of trees 1,000 feet off the departure end of Runway 16. All I
knew was we were flying and so I directed the gear to be retracted and
the flaps to be moved from Flaps 20 to Flaps 10 as I pulled even
harder on the controls. I must say, those trees were beginning to look
a lot like those brushes in the drive through car washes so I pulled
even harder yet! I think I saw a bird just fold its wings and fall out
of a tree as if to say "Oh just take me". Okay, we cleared the trees,
duh, but it was way too close for my laundry. As we started to
actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I smelled something that
reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in Europe ....I said "is
that a skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle carrying looked at
me and smiled and said "Tires"! I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They smiled
and shook their heads as if to call their Captain an amateur...okay,
at that point I was. The! E tire s were so hot you could smell them in
the cockpit. My mind could not get over, from this point on, that this
was something I had never experienced. Where's your mom when you
REALLY need her?
The flight down to Florida was an eternity. We cruised at 250 knots
indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground speed at 15,000'. The
miles didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by in a fighter
jet at MACH .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 pounds per
hour or 130 pounds per mile, or one gallon every length of the
fuselage. The vibration in the cockpit was mild, compared to down
below and to the rear of the fuselage where it reminded me of that
football game I had as a child where you turned it on and the players
vibrated around the board. I felt like if I had plastic clips on my
boots I could have vibrated to any spot in the fuselage I wanted to go
without moving my legs...and the noise was deafening. The 747 flies
with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to stay level, and when you
bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say "hey, let's roll
completely over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling myself.
SO I limited my bank angle to 15 degrees and even though a 180 degree
course change took a full zip code to complete, it was the safe way to
turn this monster.
Airliners and even a flight of two F-16s deviated from their flight
plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We dodged what was in
reality very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone thought, and
arrived in Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to land with.
We can't land heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we had
to do something with that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow
and show this beast off to all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough
to be outside on that Tuesday afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let
down to 1,000 feet above the ground/water and flew just east of the
beach out over the water Then, once we reached the NASA airspace of
the Kennedy Space Center, we cut over to the Banana/Indian Rivers and
flew down the middle of them to show the people of Titusville, Port
St.Johns and Melbourne just what a 747 with a shuttle on it looked
like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we were dragging our flaps at
"Flaps 5", our speed was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We could see
traffic stopping in the middle of roads to take a look. We heard later
that a Little League Baseball game stop to look and everyone cheered
as we became their 7th inning stretch. Oh say can you see...
After reaching Vero Beach , we turned north to follow the coast line
back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). There was not one
person laying on the beach...they were all standing and waving! "What
a sight" I thought...and figured they were thinking the same thing.
All this time I was bugging the engineers, all three of them, to
re-compute our fuel and tell me when it was time to land. They kept
saying "Not yet Triple, keep showing this thing off" which was not a
bad thing to be doing. However, all this time the thought that the
landing, the muscling of this 600,000 pound beast, was getting closer
and closer to my reality. I was pumped up! We got back to the SLF and
were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to land so I said I was going to do
a low approach over the SLF going the opposite direction of landing
traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the runway, rocking our
wings like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to the people
looking on! One turn out of traffic and back to the runway to
land...still 3,000 pounds over gross weight limit. But the engineers
agreed that if the landing were smooth, there would be no problem. "Oh
thanks guys, a little extra pressure is just what I needed!" So we
landed at 603,000 pounds and very smoothly if I have to say so myself.
The landing was so totally controlled and on speed, that it was fun.
There were a few surprises that I dealt with, like the 747 falls like
a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the throttles off at the
"normal" point in a landing and secondly, if you thought you could
hold the nose off the ground after the mains touch down, think
again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! So I "flew it down" to the ground and
saved what I have seen in videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's
video supports this! :8-)
Then I turned on my phone after coming to a full stop only to find 50
bazillion emails and phone messages from all of you who were so super
to be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I can't thank y'all
enough. For those who watched, you wondered why we sat there so long.
Well, the shuttle had very hazardous chemicals on board and we had to
be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or were leaking. They
checked for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) and nitrogen
tetroxide (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way too long
for them to tow us in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who
stuck it out and even waited until we exited the jet.
I am sure I will wake up in the middle of the night here soon,
screaming and standing straight up dripping wet with sweat from the
realization of what had happened. It was a thrill of a lifetime. Again
I want to thank everyone for your interest and support. It felt good
to bring Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so hard
getting to the Hubble Space Telescope and back.
Triple Nickel
NASA Pilot
Captain Henri D. (pianoman)
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.
BillT...@invalid.com
May 30, 2012, 3:03:21 PM5/30/12
to
On Wed, 30 May 2012 11:20:45 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>This came over one of my email lists today. I trimmed off my source's
>comments, but left the last two headers indicating its provenance.
Ossum Greg, Thanks!
>This came over one of my email lists today. I trimmed off my source's
>comments, but left the last two headers indicating its provenance.
Kajikit
Jun 4, 2012, 3:50:51 PM6/4/12
to
>This came over one of my email lists today. I trimmed off my source's
>comments, but left the last two headers indicating its provenance.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>This was circulated in email at work, from United Technologies
>corporate.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>A quick "trip report" from the pilot of the 747 that flew the shuttle
>back to Florida after the Hubble repair flight. A humorous and
>interesting inside look at what it's like to fly two aircraft at once
>. . .
>
>(I have decided to adopt one of "Triple Nickel's" phrases : "That was
>too close for MY laundry!")
Really cool... such a shame the shuttles have all been retired without
>comments, but left the last two headers indicating its provenance.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>This was circulated in email at work, from United Technologies
>corporate.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>A quick "trip report" from the pilot of the 747 that flew the shuttle
>back to Florida after the Hubble repair flight. A humorous and
>interesting inside look at what it's like to fly two aircraft at once
>. . .
>
>(I have decided to adopt one of "Triple Nickel's" phrases : "That was
>too close for MY laundry!")
anything to replace them. It was a major thrill to watch one take off
from close range... and if you happened to look in the right direction
at the right time you could see a launch from all the way down here in
S.Fl. I watched a few that way by chance...
Snidely
Jun 4, 2012, 5:42:20 PM6/4/12
to
Kajikit <kaj...@jagcon.com> scribbled something like ...
> Really cool... such a shame the shuttles have all been retired without
> anything to replace them. It was a major thrill to watch one take off
> from close range... and if you happened to look in the right direction
> at the right time you could see a launch from all the way down here in
> S.Fl. I watched a few that way by chance...
>
Replaced by Soyuz, for now, but keep an eye on Dragon.
Any AFCAns see both a Saturn 5 and a Shuttle Launch? I've read from some
people that one is more awesome than the other ... which one depending on
the speaker, IIRC.
(I've seen a few glimpses of Vandenberg launches from too far away to hear
anything. Or to see Vandenberg itself.)
/dps
> Really cool... such a shame the shuttles have all been retired without
> anything to replace them. It was a major thrill to watch one take off
> from close range... and if you happened to look in the right direction
> at the right time you could see a launch from all the way down here in
> S.Fl. I watched a few that way by chance...
>
Any AFCAns see both a Saturn 5 and a Shuttle Launch? I've read from some
people that one is more awesome than the other ... which one depending on
the speaker, IIRC.
(I've seen a few glimpses of Vandenberg launches from too far away to hear
anything. Or to see Vandenberg itself.)
/dps
Hactar
Jun 4, 2012, 6:53:46 PM6/4/12
to
In article <XnsA06895921B...@88.198.244.100>,
I've been to a shuttle launch, and I can see them from home. OK, I can
see a smoke trail with a bright spot on top, if I look to the ENE at the
right time. Unfortunately, I was still a baby when they stopped
launching Saturn Vs, and wasn't much interested in the space program.
On the neat side, a few minutes after a launch some loose windows and
doors rattle, and a few minutes later there's a rumble from the ENE.
And when there's a landing, we get the double sonic boom. Nifty.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be
adequately explained by stupidity." Derived from Robert Heinlein
see a smoke trail with a bright spot on top, if I look to the ENE at the
right time. Unfortunately, I was still a baby when they stopped
launching Saturn Vs, and wasn't much interested in the space program.
On the neat side, a few minutes after a launch some loose windows and
doors rattle, and a few minutes later there's a rumble from the ENE.
And when there's a landing, we get the double sonic boom. Nifty.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be
adequately explained by stupidity." Derived from Robert Heinlein
Tim Wright
Jun 4, 2012, 7:20:20 PM6/4/12
to
On 6/4/2012 5:53 PM, Hactar wrote:
> In article<XnsA06895921B...@88.198.244.100>,
> Snidely<snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kajikit<kaj...@jagcon.com> scribbled something like ...
>>
>>
>>> Really cool... such a shame the shuttles have all been retired without
>>> anything to replace them. It was a major thrill to watch one take off
>>> from close range... and if you happened to look in the right direction
>>> at the right time you could see a launch from all the way down here in
>>> S.Fl. I watched a few that way by chance...
>>
>> Replaced by Soyuz, for now, but keep an eye on Dragon.
>>
>> Any AFCAns see both a Saturn 5 and a Shuttle Launch? I've read from some
>> people that one is more awesome than the other ... which one depending on
>> the speaker, IIRC.
>>
>> (I've seen a few glimpses of Vandenberg launches from too far away to hear
>> anything. Or to see Vandenberg itself.)
>
> I've been to a shuttle launch, and I can see them from home. OK, I can
> see a smoke trail with a bright spot on top, if I look to the ENE at the
> right time. Unfortunately, I was still a baby when they stopped
> launching Saturn Vs, and wasn't much interested in the space program.
>
> On the neat side, a few minutes after a launch some loose windows and
> doors rattle, and a few minutes later there's a rumble from the ENE.
> And when there's a landing, we get the double sonic boom. Nifty.
>
I have a strong urge to correct your tenses.
> In article<XnsA06895921B...@88.198.244.100>,
> Snidely<snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kajikit<kaj...@jagcon.com> scribbled something like ...
>>
>>
>>> Really cool... such a shame the shuttles have all been retired without
>>> anything to replace them. It was a major thrill to watch one take off
>>> from close range... and if you happened to look in the right direction
>>> at the right time you could see a launch from all the way down here in
>>> S.Fl. I watched a few that way by chance...
>>
>> Replaced by Soyuz, for now, but keep an eye on Dragon.
>>
>> Any AFCAns see both a Saturn 5 and a Shuttle Launch? I've read from some
>> people that one is more awesome than the other ... which one depending on
>> the speaker, IIRC.
>>
>> (I've seen a few glimpses of Vandenberg launches from too far away to hear
>> anything. Or to see Vandenberg itself.)
>
> I've been to a shuttle launch, and I can see them from home. OK, I can
> see a smoke trail with a bright spot on top, if I look to the ENE at the
> right time. Unfortunately, I was still a baby when they stopped
> launching Saturn Vs, and wasn't much interested in the space program.
>
> On the neat side, a few minutes after a launch some loose windows and
> doors rattle, and a few minutes later there's a rumble from the ENE.
> And when there's a landing, we get the double sonic boom. Nifty.
>
--
Tim W
Hactar
Jun 4, 2012, 9:06:43 PM6/4/12
to
In article <SOmdnSl6lOIp31DS...@supernews.com>,
Which sentence(s) bug you?
ARIES: The look on your face will be priceless when you find that 40lb
watermelon in your colon. Trade toothbrushes with an albino dwarf, then
give a hickey to Meryl Streep. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_
ARIES: The look on your face will be priceless when you find that 40lb
watermelon in your colon. Trade toothbrushes with an albino dwarf, then
give a hickey to Meryl Streep. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_
Tim Wright
Jun 4, 2012, 9:16:04 PM6/4/12
to
On 6/4/2012 8:06 PM, Hactar wrote:
> In article<SOmdnSl6lOIp31DS...@supernews.com>,
Since the shuttles have been retired, it just seemed to need past tense
rather than present.
--
Tim W
> In article<SOmdnSl6lOIp31DS...@supernews.com>,
rather than present.
--
Tim W
Hactar
Jun 4, 2012, 11:13:58 PM6/4/12
to
In article <bo6dnXInfORJwFDS...@supernews.com>,
You're probably right. I guess I'm just stuck in the past. Technically,
the same observations would apply to any decently-sized launch from that
area, and presumably those still happen.
SCORPIO: Get ready for an unexpected trip when you fall screaming
from an open window. Work a little harder on improving your low self
esteem, you stupid freak. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_
the same observations would apply to any decently-sized launch from that
area, and presumably those still happen.
SCORPIO: Get ready for an unexpected trip when you fall screaming
from an open window. Work a little harder on improving your low self
esteem, you stupid freak. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_
Snidely
Jun 5, 2012, 1:24:09 AM6/5/12
to
ebenZ...@verizon.net (Hactar) scribbled something like ...
> You're probably right. I guess I'm just stuck in the past.
> Technically, the same observations would apply to any decently-sized
> launch from that area, and presumably those still happen.
Well, the most recent orbital launch was the Falcon 9 launch with Dragon.
For the moment, the only larger ones would be a Delta IV or Atlas 5. I
believe that at least 1 of each can be expected each year. And would be
considered newsworthy in Florida (and even outside Florida, on the 2nd
page).
I'm not sure when the first Falcon Heavy launch from Florida will occur.
/dps
> You're probably right. I guess I'm just stuck in the past.
> Technically, the same observations would apply to any decently-sized
> launch from that area, and presumably those still happen.
For the moment, the only larger ones would be a Delta IV or Atlas 5. I
believe that at least 1 of each can be expected each year. And would be
considered newsworthy in Florida (and even outside Florida, on the 2nd
page).
I'm not sure when the first Falcon Heavy launch from Florida will occur.
/dps
Snidely
Jun 5, 2012, 1:26:33 AM6/5/12
to
ebenZ...@verizon.net (Hactar) scribbled something like ...
> Tim Wright <tlwri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since the shuttles have been retired, it just seemed to need past
>> tense rather than present.
>
> You're probably right. I guess I'm just stuck in the past.
Some recent discussions in AUE have brought up, um, "historical present", I
>> Since the shuttles have been retired, it just seemed to need past
>> tense rather than present.
>
> You're probably right. I guess I'm just stuck in the past.
think it is. So there's a future to your speech patterns.
/dps
Beaver Fever
Sep 23, 2021, 12:24:28 AM9/23/21
to
Any ideas on how to fly out of LAX on one?
0 new messages