Also, half of all poodles are boys
nebusj
universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends to
whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual player-character in
the comic strip or cartoon. See, for example, about one out of every
five _Marmaduke_ strips.
Why poodles, though? How did they get the cartoonist-cliche
assignment of the exciting girl? Is it just a ``French things are
sexy'' motif, or is there some ur-poodle that became a widespread
cultural reference and which is now forgotten?
[1] I realize suddenly that if ``poodles'' takes any
localization it's inevitably ``French''. Why the pairing of words?
Was there a time when there were so many Romanian poodles running
about that the clarification was needed, and the term has lingered
past its need?
Bob
> If there's any one cartoon convention that's strange and
> universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
> the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends to
> whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual player-character in
> the comic strip or cartoon. See, for example, about one out of every
> five _Marmaduke_ strips.
>
> Why poodles, though? How did they get the cartoonist-cliche
> assignment of the exciting girl?
Because they're pretty.
Peter Ward
Poodles? Pretty? I think not. Ugly, but serviceable dogs untrimmed,
they look ridiculous in their hair dos. Poodles are to laugh at.
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
There's no need to think when you can google.
- Don K
Don K
news:MPG.27991d998...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Bob says...
> >
> > On Jan 12, 9:03 pm, nebusj <neb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If there's any one cartoon convention that's strange and
> > > universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
> > > the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends to
> > > whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual player-character in
> > > the comic strip or cartoon. See, for example, about one out of every
> > > five _Marmaduke_ strips.
> > >
> > > Why poodles, though? How did they get the cartoonist-cliche
> > > assignment of the exciting girl?
> >
> > Because they're pretty.
>
> Poodles? Pretty? I think not. Ugly, but serviceable dogs untrimmed,
> they look ridiculous in their hair dos. Poodles are to laugh at.
>
>
> I'm an alien
> email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
> http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
> There's no need to think when you can google.
> - Don K
There's no need for poodle when you can labradoodle.
(or anything-else-oodle)
Don
landotter
> Bob says...
>
>
>
> > On Jan 12, 9:03 pm, nebusj <neb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > If there's any one cartoon convention that's strange and
> > > universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
> > > the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends to
> > > whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual player-character in
> > > the comic strip or cartoon. See, for example, about one out of every
> > > five _Marmaduke_ strips.
>
> > > Why poodles, though? How did they get the cartoonist-cliche
> > > assignment of the exciting girl?
>
> > Because they're pretty.
>
> Poodles? Pretty? I think not. Ugly, but serviceable dogs untrimmed,
> they look ridiculous in their hair dos. Poodles are to laugh at.
>
My dog's best buddy is a standard poodle. She's more dog than a lot of
labs and goldens I know. Lean and good looking to boot. I happen to
like afros, so YMMV.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4784206152_2bcb339648_b.jpg
Lee Ayrton
> On Jan 12, 9:03 pm, nebusj <neb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If there's any one cartoon convention that's strange and
>> universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
>> the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends to
>> whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual player-character in
>> the comic strip or cartoon. See, for example, about one out of every
>> five _Marmaduke_ strips.
>>
>> Why poodles, though? How did they get t
>> cartoonist-cliche
>> assignment of the exciting girl?
>
> Because they're pretty.
For values "pretty" that include "chorus girl", "B-girl" and "gun moll".
They are the cartoon canine analog of gaudy, makeup-caked, over-sexed,
bubble-headed, squeeky-voiced, arm-candy, "Hollywood" floozies with
unnaturally accented shapes and bedecked in ribbons.
N Jill Marsh
<land...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 13, 8:33 am, Peter Ward <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Bob says...
>> > On Jan 12, 9:03 pm, nebusj <neb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > If there's any one cartoon convention that's strange and
>> > > universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
>> > > the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends to
>> > > whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual player-character in
>> > > the comic strip or cartoon. See, for example, about one out of every
>> > > five _Marmaduke_ strips.
>> > > Why poodles, though? How did they get the cartoonist-cliche
>> > > assignment of the exciting girl?
They are French, and they are very groomed and poofy and silly when
they are portrayed the way you mention. A truly High Maintenance
Girl.
>> > Because they're pretty.
>> Poodles? Pretty? I think not. Ugly, but serviceable dogs untrimmed,
>> they look ridiculous in their hair dos. Poodles are to laugh at.
>
>My dog's best buddy is a standard poodle. She's more dog than a lot of
>labs and goldens I know. Lean and good looking to boot. I happen to
>like afros, so YMMV.
I would not go so far as to cast aspersions on the very finest of all
dogs the Labbadors, but my next door neighbour has a standard poodle,
and he is a perfect specimen of doghood: athletic, loyal, game, smart
and not at all dignified.
>http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4784206152_2bcb339648_b.jpg
My neighbour is white and clipped short all the time, it makes for a
very attractive pooch. He's a great running companion.
nj"slick"m
--
"All I can say is that the work has been done well in every way."
Lee Ayrton
>>My dog's best buddy is a standard poodle. She's more dog than a lot of
>>labs and goldens I know. Lean and good looking to boot. I happen to like
>>afros, so YMMV.
>
> I would not go so far as to cast aspersions on the very finest of all
> dogs the Labbadors, but my next door neighbour has a standard poodle,
> and he is a perfect specimen of doghood: athletic, loyal, game, smart
> and not at all dignified.
I'll add to the chorus: Standard poodles are great dogs and look best
unfrou-frou'd.
Toy poodles aren't worth a second glance, except to see if they cleared
the goal post.
N Jill Marsh
I don't think I've ever had to deal with a toy, but I have had contact
with two miniature poodles who were everything a standard was, just in
a smaller package.
I think little dogs get a bad rap, similar to the pibble problem but
in reverse; they are often in environments that play to the very worst
in a dog's character, and that doesn't lend them to being good dogs. I
have only had really close contact* with two tiny dogs, a Yorkie and a
Silkie, they were owned consecutively by the same person, and they
were grand little creatures, just a basic dog but small enough to be
cheap and portable. I think the fact their owner was a good dog
person contributed to their excellent temperament and behaviour,
because they were both puppy-mill products.
nj"long, tiny stories"m
*as in sustained and long term, including boarding them for extended
periods.
landotter
Indeed, I've known some pretty fabulous little poodles, and properly
raised little terriers are portable and fearless. It's not uncommon to
see yorkies and silkies as motorcycle riding sidekicks around here.
The littlest member of the gang here is a 12+ y/o Bichon, who's twenty
pounds of muscle, and runs fine with the big boys and girls, though he
naps more.
Rox
> There's no need to think when you can google.
> - Don K
Poodles, of whatever size, have relatively long legs so many of them
do seem to prance a bit. That probably reinforces the "pretty"
thing.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> I think little dogs get a bad rap, similar to the pibble problem but
> in reverse; they are often in environments that play to the very worst
> in a dog's character, and that doesn't lend them to being good dogs. I
> have only had really close contact* with two tiny dogs, a Yorkie and a
> Silkie, they were owned consecutively by the same person, and they
> were grand little creatures, just a basic dog but small enough to be
> cheap and portable. I think the fact their owner was a good dog
> person contributed to their excellent temperament and behaviour,
> because they were both puppy-mill products.
Ja. There are no bad dogs, only bad dog owners. My two personal
experiences with shitful little rat-dogs both involved owners who spent
next to no time attempting to train or socialize the dog, and very
little time paying attention to the dogs' needs.
When a well-trained dog wants something, it'll tell you, and if you
spend enough time with the dog and pay even a tiny amount of attention,
you'll eventually figure out the dog's 'words' for the five basic dog
ideas, which are "I have to pee", "I'm hungry", "water bowl is empty",
"I'm bored", and "HOLY SHIT THE PIZZA GUY IS HERE".
The first shitful little rat-dog was a border terrier, and only seemed
to know one word: "I'M TERRIFIED!". The second one is a Yorkie that only
seems to know three, but the first two, "I'm hungry" and "I have to pee"
don't get used often, probably because they get ignored a lot, and the
third one, "I'm lonely!" is pretty much nonstop.
So yeah, I think the bias against shitful little rat-dogs is probably
unfair. I place most of the blame on the sort of people who own shitful
little rat-dogs, and seem to think that they require about as much space
and attention as goldfish. Sure, you can treat them like that, but
then they're going to crap in their own houses, and not interact with
you all that much. Good dogs are not goldfish, they're friends, and you
should treat them like friends.
--
Huey
bill van
Lee Ayrton <lay...@panix.nul> wrote:
I think that kind of poodle reflects more of its owner than of the breed
itself.
bill
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> My neighbour is white and clipped short all the time, it makes for a
> very attractive pooch. He's a great running companion.
But what about your neighbor's dog?
N Jill Marsh
A couple of years ago I was filling the car and a bunch of scary
bikers came in to the station. One of them had a yorkie tucked into
his leathers. It was hilarious, even funnier than Kim's husband with
the cairns.
>The littlest member of the gang here is a 12+ y/o Bichon, who's twenty
>pounds of muscle, and runs fine with the big boys and girls, though he
>naps more.
Oh yes, I forgot my good friends' bichon. Not the brightest spark,
but an excellent temper, affectionate and game and well-behaved.
nj"rip ripper"m
N Jill Marsh
Heh, my neighbour is white and clipped short all the time, and he's
pretty attractive, but his knees are just shot. That's why the dog's
always looking for a running partner.
nj"on the other other hand"m
JimboCat
> universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
> the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends
Poodle schmoodle: the sexy French bombshell in Walt Kelly's POGO was a
skunk, Miz Mam'selle Hepzibah by name (very much not to be confused
with the totally non-French Churchy LaFemme, a male turtle). After
Kelly died in 1973 she reportedly carried on with the strip herself,
but failed to maintain the quality of the writing. Not sure if that
was because she was a skunk or because she was French.
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
"Enforcing laws against animal breeding leads to the
government listening in on phone conversation which leads
to fascism." -- norrin
landotter
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:06:37 -0800 (PST), landotter
>
Oh yeah--that's because their historical job has only been to be
jolly, affectionate, and warm a toe or two. You can't even walk this
guy off leash, because he will find a flower to smell all day.
Nasti J
> Poodles? Pretty? I think not. Ugly, but serviceable dogs untrimmed,
> they look ridiculous in their hair dos. Poodles are to laugh at.
The hair-dos serve a purpose if the dogs are to do their intended
jobs; consequently having the hair-do is required to meet the breed
standard. Granted, I have NEVER seen anybody bird hunting with a
poodle.
N J Marsh
I haven't seen it, but I've met a poodle (and owner) who was used for
hunting. Poodles haven't generally lost most of those instincts, they have
a reputation of being smart and trainable and there's no reason they
wouldn't work well.
I've also met working Portuguese Water Dogs, Irish Setters and terriers.
nj"and a free style dachshund"m
rroger
With one exception(1), I LOVE toy/miniature poodles. They are a great
size and they do not shed hair.
--
rr-(1) if one can't afford to get their, (the poodle's), hair cut,
they end up being a long, super matted(2) mess!-oger
:::::(2)speaks from experience:::::
Peter Ward
They may well serve a purpose, but that's not the point I was
addressing.
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
groo
Bob
> Poodles, of whatever size, have relatively long legs so many of them
> do seem to prance a bit. That probably reinforces the "pretty"
> thing.
I was afraid Lucky had juvenile arthitis because he always pranced.
But Happy pranced only when he wanted to be officious, as when he came
to inspect the problem we were having in the boiler room.
Bob
Lucky could find dead pigeons...long-dead pigeons.
Bob
> With one exception(1), I LOVE toy/miniature poodles. They are a great
> size and they do not shed hair.
According to the song, "Just A Stinky Poodle", a poodle is a perfect
pet.
> rr-(1) if one can't afford to get their, (the poodle's), hair cut,
> they end up being a long, super matted(2) mess!
Aw, that's a cute look too.
Bob
> >> If there's any one cartoon convention that's strange and
> >> universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
> >> the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends to
> >> whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual player-character in
> >> the comic strip or cartoon. See, for example, about one out of every
> >> five _Marmaduke_ strips.
>
> >> Why poodles, though? How did they get t
> >> cartoonist-cliche
> >> assignment of the exciting girl?
>
> > Because they're pretty.
>
> For values "pretty" that include "chorus girl", "B-girl" and "gun moll".
>
> They are the cartoon canine analog of gaudy, makeup-caked, over-sexed,
> bubble-headed, squeeky-voiced, arm-candy, "Hollywood" floozies with
> unnaturally accented shapes and bedecked in ribbons.
Exactly. That's what "pretty" conveys in cartoons. What other animal
would you use to convey that? And so, what other animal than a poodle
would you use to convey femininity? And the wolf is always male.
How about its opposite in glamor and looks, the mule? You would
think, judging from its language associations, they might pick the
pig, but there's a tendency to make cartoon pigs very proper if male
and pretty if female -- just with a big appetite. No, it's the mule
they pick on, a great example of piling on.
Bob in the Bronx
rroger
> Nasti J says...
>
>
>
> > On Jan 13, 7:33 am, Peter Ward <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > > Poodles? Pretty? I think not. Ugly, but serviceable dogs untrimmed,
> > > they look ridiculous in their hair dos. Poodles are to laugh at.
>
> > The hair-dos serve a purpose if the dogs are to do their intended
> > jobs; consequently having the hair-do is required to meet the breed
> > standard. Granted, I have NEVER seen anybody bird hunting with a
> > poodle.
>
> They may well serve a purpose, but that's not the point I was
> addressing.
The one poodle hair cut that I've *NEVER* liked the looks of is the
classic, (at least from what I've seen), "dog show" cut. That's the
one where, among other things that I can't remember, the leg hair is
cut so that there are "poof balls" left on the, (based on my memory,
which may not be right), other wise close shaven legs. I don't know
*WHY* I don't like that cut, I just know that I don't.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> On Jan 13, 7:33?am, Peter Ward <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > Poodles? ?Pretty? ?I think not. ?Ugly, but serviceable dogs
> > untrimmed, they look ridiculous in their hair dos. ?Poodles are to
> > laugh at.
> The hair-dos serve a purpose if the dogs are to do their intended
> jobs; consequently having the hair-do is required to meet the breed
> standard. Granted, I have NEVER seen anybody bird hunting with a
> poodle.
I have a friend who volunteers on the wilderness rescue team with his
trained SAR poodle, who has the functional poodle haircut.
So, y'know, fair warning: if you're a big tough mountain man, out hiking
in the mountains in Washington state, and you get lost, you might get
rescued by a poodle. Imagine having to explain THAT to your friends.
"HEY BOB, REMEMBER THAT TIME YOUR LIFE WAS SAVED BY A FUCKING POODLE?"
You'd never be able to show your face in the bar again. Better shell out
a couple bucks for the GPS, huh?
--
Huey
Mary
Standard poodles are tough dogs. There was a guy up in northern
Minnesota who used to use a team of poodles for sled dog racing.
Mary
hpjeannie
>
> Toy poodles aren't worth a second glance, except to see if they cleared
> the goal post.
I dogsat a couple of fine teacup poodles in my teens - they were very
smart, well behaved and incredibly fast. When I took them out in the
front yard, they described large circles at top speed and you couldn't
even tell they were touching the ground. I always preferred big dogs
because the little ones were often nasty, but these two were
different. It all depends on the owner(s).
Jeannie
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Exactly. That's what "pretty" conveys in cartoons. What other animal
> would you use to convey that? And so, what other animal than a poodle
> would you use to convey femininity? And the wolf is always male.
Not always. Consider Kell and her cousin, both wolves and both pretty
good-looking, for a cartoon wolf.
Lesmond
>On Jan 13, 11:11ÿam, Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.nul> wrote:
>
>> >> ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ If there's any one cartoon convention that's strange and
>> >> universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular ones is
>> >> the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy girlfriends to
>> >> whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual player-character in
>> >> the comic strip or cartoon. ÿSee, for example, about one out of every
>> >> five _Marmaduke_ strips.
>>
>> >> ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ Why poodles, though? ÿHow did they get t
>> >> ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ cartoonist-cliche
>> >> assignment of the exciting girl?
>>
>> > Because they're pretty.
>>
>> For values "pretty" that include "chorus girl", "B-girl" and "gun moll". ÿ
>>
>> They are the cartoon canine analog of gaudy, makeup-caked, over-sexed,
>> bubble-headed, squeeky-voiced, arm-candy, "Hollywood" floozies with
>> unnaturally accented shapes and bedecked in ribbons.
>
>Exactly. That's what "pretty" conveys in cartoons. What other animal
>would you use to convey that? And so, what other animal than a poodle
>would you use to convey femininity? And the wolf is always male.
>
>How about its opposite in glamor and looks, the mule? You would
>think, judging from its language associations, they might pick the
>pig, but there's a tendency to make cartoon pigs very proper if male
>and pretty if female -- just with a big appetite. No, it's the mule
>they pick on, a great example of piling on.
DON'T TALK ABOUT PIGS!
STOP LAUGHING AT ME, YOU DAMN PIGS!
--
If there's a nuclear winter, at least it'll snow.
Lesmond
Without the matting, yes.
Lesmond
>Poodles? Pretty? I think not. Ugly, but serviceable dogs untrimmed,
>they look ridiculous in their hair dos. Poodles are to laugh at.
My mom's standard poodle Lucy was a very pretty dog when well groomed. Yeah,
the pom-poms were unnecessary, but cutish. She was a vicious bitch, though.
Bit everyone we knew.
We used to frequent a French restaurant where the owners had an ungroomed
standard named Oscar. He was a sweet and handsome dog. His curls were
beautiful.
Lesmond
>On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 16:51:58 +0000 (UTC), Lee Ayrton
><lay...@panix.nul> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:32:16 -0500, N Jill Marsh wrote:
>>
>>>>My dog's best buddy is a standard poodle. She's more dog than a lot of
>>>>labs and goldens I know. Lean and good looking to boot. I happen to like
>>>>afros, so YMMV.
>>>
>>> I would not go so far as to cast aspersions on the very finest of all
>>> dogs the Labbadors, but my next door neighbour has a standard poodle,
>>> and he is a perfect specimen of doghood: athletic, loyal, game, smart
>>> and not at all dignified.
>>
>>I'll add to the chorus: Standard poodles are great dogs and look best
>>unfrou-frou'd.
>>
>>Toy poodles aren't worth a second glance, except to see if they cleared
>>the goal post.
>
>I don't think I've ever had to deal with a toy, but I have had contact
>with two miniature poodles who were everything a standard was, just in
>a smaller package.
>
>I think little dogs get a bad rap, similar to the pibble problem but
>in reverse; they are often in environments that play to the very worst
>in a dog's character, and that doesn't lend them to being good dogs. I
>have only had really close contact* with two tiny dogs, a Yorkie and a
>Silkie, they were owned consecutively by the same person, and they
>were grand little creatures, just a basic dog but small enough to be
>cheap and portable. I think the fact their owner was a good dog
>person contributed to their excellent temperament and behaviour,
>because they were both puppy-mill products.
My cousin's Pom was one of my favorites. And she could practically fit in my
purse*. And we had a Peke that actually could. I still miss Mr. Lu.
And it's not just the owner. My mom's poodle was simply mean. We always had
extremely well trained doggies. Lucy was just evil. But I don't know of her
life before we got her. We never had a dog that wasn't a rescue.
*Kim may be along shortly to claim I could fit a German Shepherd in my purse.
It's not true.
landotter
I got two main things against owning big dogs--they only live ten
years or so, and they take proportional craps. My friend has a mastiff
that will shit out two dinner plates full of dookie when unnerved.
Fine looking dog, but what's the point? My thirty pound rascal only
deposits handfuls, deters burglars, and can run all day on the trail.
Lesmond
>Ja. There are no bad dogs, only bad dog owners.
No, some dogs just suck.
My two personal
>experiences with shitful little rat-dogs both involved owners who spent
>next to no time attempting to train or socialize the dog, and very
>little time paying attention to the dogs' needs.
I realize you're talking about rat dogs, but I think what you say applies to
all, at least for the purposes of the argument I'm making. My mom doted on
the standard poodle Lucy. Got her groomed, slept with her, played with her
all the time, took her to be trained. The only dog we ever had (out of a
couple of dozen over the decades) that we couldn't train ourselves.
Apparently professionals couldn't, either. She still kept biting us.
>
>When a well-trained dog wants something, it'll tell you, and if you
>spend enough time with the dog and pay even a tiny amount of attention,
>you'll eventually figure out the dog's 'words' for the five basic dog
>ideas, which are "I have to pee", "I'm hungry", "water bowl is empty",
>"I'm bored", and "HOLY SHIT THE PIZZA GUY IS HERE".
True most of the time. And "If my pee is bloody, don't get too attached to
me." Poor Chester.
N J Marsh
>
> STOP LAUGHING AT ME, YOU DAMN PIGS!
You should check your facebook more often, I posted an explanation about
your pigs just the other day.
Lesmond
Yes, I do neglect the Facebook. Sorry.
S. Checker
> On Jan 13, 11:11?am, Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.nul> wrote:
>
>> They are the cartoon canine analog of gaudy, makeup-caked, over-sexed,
>> bubble-headed, squeeky-voiced, arm-candy, "Hollywood" floozies with
>> unnaturally accented shapes and bedecked in ribbons.
>
> Exactly. That's what "pretty" conveys in cartoons. What other animal
> would you use to convey that? And so, what other animal than a poodle
> would you use to convey femininity? And the wolf is always male.
Afghans? They remind me of (some) women in early Hemingway novels.
--
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular
error.
John Kenneth Galbraith
rroger
> When a well-trained dog wants something, it'll tell you, and if you
> spend enough time with the dog and pay even a tiny amount of attention,
> you'll eventually figure out the dog's 'words' for the five basic dog
> ideas, which are "I have to pee", "I'm hungry", "water bowl is empty",
> "I'm bored", and "HOLY SHIT THE PIZZA GUY IS HERE".
This reminded me of an old cartoon I once saw that I thought was
funny. It was a 2 panel/box cartoon. Both boxes showed a dog owner
talking to his dog. The first box was labeled "What we say" and the
owner was saying something like: "bad dog rover, you know better than
that rover, don't do that rover" and it continued on like that. The
second box was labeled "what dogs hear" and it showed: "blah blah
rover, blah blah blah blah blah rover, blah blah blah rover" and on
like that.
Les Albert
wrote:
It's an oldie but goodie by Larson: http://tinyurl.com/4jjcz8g
Les
Mark Steese
news:d00d2e6e-bf73-4315...@j25g2000vbs.googlegroups.com:
> On Jan 13, 11:11 am, Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.nul> wrote:
>
>> >> If there's any one cartoon convention that's strange and
>> >> universal I'd be very shocked, but at least one of the popular
>> >> ones is the portrayal of French poodles [1] as the racy, sexy
>> >> girlfriends to whoever the inevitably male dog that's an actual
>> >> player-character in the comic strip or cartoon. See, for example,
>> >> about one out of every five _Marmaduke_ strips.
>>
>> >> Why poodles, though? How did they get the cartoonist-cliche
>> >> assignment of the exciting girl?
>>
>> > Because they're pretty.
>>
>> For values "pretty" that include "chorus girl", "B-girl" and "gun
>> moll".
>
>> They are the cartoon canine analog of gaudy, makeup-caked,
>> over-sexed, bubble-headed, squeeky-voiced, arm-candy, "Hollywood"
>> floozies with unnaturally accented shapes and bedecked in ribbons.
>
> Exactly. That's what "pretty" conveys in cartoons. What other animal
> would you use to convey that?
Walt Kelly conveyed that quite well with a skunk. We can all be thankful
that Mam'zelle Hepzibah was created too long ago to have been
appropriated by the furries.
What was Lady in "Lady and the Tramp"? A cocker spaniel? Definitely not a
poodle, anyway.
> And so, what other animal than a poodle would you use to convey
> femininity?
There are an awful lot of 'sexy' cartoon cat-ladies out there. Even
comparatively realistic cats get that treatment, e.g., the Duchess in
"The Aristocats" and those poor cats who were always getting harassed by
Pepe Le Pew. Vixens show up occasionally.
> And the wolf is always male.
Usually, not always. And that's at least partly because of cartoonists'
fondness for appropriating characters like the Big Bad Wolf from fairy
tales; note that, while cartoon bears are usually male, Mama Bear from
"Goldilocks" was a staple character in Warner Brothers cartoons. (The
Warners animators liked to feminize all kinds of critters - one Bugs
Bunny cartoon ends with Bugs being smothered in kisses by a female
buzzard, and apparently enjoying it. Don't think about that one too
much.)
> How about its opposite in glamor and looks, the mule? You would
> think, judging from its language associations, they might pick the
> pig, but there's a tendency to make cartoon pigs very proper if male
> and pretty if female -- just with a big appetite.
I wouldn't call Porky's girlfriend Petunia "pretty," seeing as how she
looks like Porky in drag, but maybe that's just me.
> No, it's the mule they pick on, a great example of piling on.
I can only recall one example of a mule in a cartoon, the homonymous
protagonist of the early comic strip "And Her Name Was Maud!" Maud
wasn't very anthropomorphic - she was a farmer's mule who constantly
frustrated him with her counterproductive behavior.
Cartoon jackasses are common enough, but mules, not so much. (And
cartoon jackasses are typically used to represent people making fools of
themselves, not unfeminine women.)
It seems to me that cows are the most commonly used anti-poodles - see,
for example, Clarabelle Cow in the early Disney cartoons. And hens are
sometimes drafted into the role - Walt Kelly's character Sis Boombah,
the athletics coach, was decidedly an anti-poodle. (Didn't stop her from
hitting on Deacon Mushrat, though. And he seemed to like her well
enough, though he was a bit overwhelmed.)
--
The boughs rustled, and the air was stirred by the muffled beat of their
wings: I could see them, like unearthly, boding shapes, as they swooped
between me and the stars. -Bayard Taylor
Mark Steese
news:RqKdnXg8xa_j2bLQ...@speakeasy.net:
> N Jill Marsh <njm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think little dogs get a bad rap, similar to the pibble problem but
>> in reverse; they are often in environments that play to the very worst
>> in a dog's character, and that doesn't lend them to being good dogs. I
>> have only had really close contact* with two tiny dogs, a Yorkie and a
>> Silkie, they were owned consecutively by the same person, and they
>> were grand little creatures, just a basic dog but small enough to be
>> cheap and portable. I think the fact their owner was a good dog
>> person contributed to their excellent temperament and behaviour,
>> because they were both puppy-mill products.
>
> Ja. There are no bad dogs, only bad dog owners. My two personal
> experiences with shitful little rat-dogs both involved owners who spent
> next to no time attempting to train or socialize the dog, and very
> little time paying attention to the dogs' needs.
It's quite true that some dogs are turned into monsters by bad
socialization and/or training, just as some children are turned into
monsters by bad parenting. But there are also dogs and kids who turn out
badly regardless; like people, dogs have a variety of personality types,
and some of 'em are just plain rotten.
The opposite stereotype is often invoked regarding cats, but in my
experience, cats that are treated decently will usually return the favor:
truly bad cats are no more common than truly bad dogs or truly bad people.
groo
> *Kim may be along shortly to claim I could fit a German Shepherd in my
> purse.
> It's not true.
>
Even if you remove the tools first?
--
"I just really like talking about Farscape." - Abed, "Community"
Bob
The writer has it wrong: she's clearly a fox.
Greg Goss
>On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:27:46 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
><cdim...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>>On 1/13/2011 11:32 AM, N Jill Marsh wrote:
>>
>>> My neighbour is white and clipped short all the time, it makes for a
>>> very attractive pooch. He's a great running companion.
>>
>>But what about your neighbor's dog?
>
>Heh, my neighbour is white and clipped short
Do we need to know how Jill knows the neighbor's circumcision status?
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
>Standard poodles are tough dogs. There was a guy up in northern
>Minnesota who used to use a team of poodles for sled dog racing.
Perhaps Ellen needs to rewrite that Iditarod sketch that Wendy
insisted on reading to me then.
Snidely
Oh, wow, a cartoon about AFCA ?!?!
/dps
Snidely
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 16:51:58 +0000 (UTC), Lee Ayrton
> >Toy poodles aren't worth a second glance, except to see if they cleared
> >the goal post.
>
> I don't think I've ever had to deal with a toy, but I have had contact
> with two miniature poodles who were everything a standard was, just in
> a smaller package.
>
> I think little dogs get a bad rap, similar to the pibble problem but
> in reverse; they are often in environments that play to the very worst
> in a dog's character, and that doesn't lend them to being good dogs. I
> have only had really close contact* with two tiny dogs, a Yorkie and a
> Silkie, they were owned consecutively by the same person, and they
> were grand little creatures, just a basic dog but small enough to be
> cheap and portable. I think the fact their owner was a good dog
> person contributed to their excellent temperament and behaviour,
> because they were both puppy-mill products.
For some reason, the smaller versions of some of the intelligent
breeds -- min/toy poodles and Shelties come to mind -- seem to have
all the intelligence of their bigger brothers, but may have more
neuroses.
There is also the training thing with regard to barking at passing
dogs. Dogs are quite territorial, so it is not unusual for them to
bark at those perceived to be intruders, even if there is no chance
the "intruder" is going to open the front door, and doesn't even pay
any attention. Small dogs think they've been successful driving the
big dog off when it leaves. If the owner doesn't do any training as
to what a *real* intrusion is, the dog will end up barking almost
constantly, especially in dense housing like apartments and condos. I
admit I never thought of the training issue until I was listening to a
program with a dog training expert on it.
/dps
N Jill Marsh
<snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>For some reason, the smaller versions of some of the intelligent
>breeds -- min/toy poodles and Shelties come to mind -- seem to have
>all the intelligence of their bigger brothers, but may have more
>neuroses.
I think they tend to be younger breeds than some of the traditionally
ornamental ones, and so they are closer to their working dog
traditions than, for example, a pekingese.
>There is also the training thing with regard to barking at passing
>dogs.
(and other things)
Indeed. Some dogs are naturally barky and very difficult if not
impossible to stop with it, and I think it's a very hard behaviour to
extinguish once it's set, but a lot of it can be trained out. And of
course, you don't want the dog to not bark at all.
The last breeder I purchased a dog from, he had a kennel with about
four Labrador brood bitches and various juvenile dogs, puppies and
other hangers on. The labs were all in a converted barn a couple of
hundred feet away from the house. His wife raised Maltese, all kept
in the house.
When you drove into their drive, the Labradors would start up, and if
someone came out of the house, they'd all pretty much stop.
If you went up to the house and knocked on the door, the Maltese would
then start up, and when someone came to the door and greeted you, all
stopped.
If there was no one home, the Labs would bark, and the Maltese would
start if you knocked on the door, but as soon as you got back in the
car, they'd stop.
I asked them about it, and their view was just that it was the culture
of the kennel; the senior dogs knew that their job was to alert to
intruders, and once their people were present they were finished with
that part, and would just stay alert but quiet after that - not making
a big deal of guests or yelling when the dogs yelled helped. The
junior dogs just picked it up from the senior dogs. It wasn't
anything they'd actively trained, but it eventually became something
that was taught by the dogs. I think the fact his Labs were
dual-purpose - registered and shown *and* worked, made a big
difference, they had the show bloodline's more laid back personality
but also got a lot of attention and varied physical exertion.
One of the dogs I got from them was an adult female, a couple of weeks
after I brought her home I phoned him and asked if she was mute. He
said no, he *had* heard her bark previously, but in general it was his
impression that she delegated her barking responsibilities to her
associates. (I had two other big dogs at that time, one barked when
she was supposed to, and not otherwise, the other one was very very
verbal but would stop immediately if you asked him to stop.) For
years I never heard her bark other than in the most extraordinary
circumstances, but when she eventually became an only dog, she began
barking duty, though it took a little while before she got her barker
in proper working order.
nj"clearing the throat"m
--
"All I can say is that the work has been done well in every way."
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:32:16 -0500, N Jill Marsh wrote:
>
>
> >>My dog's best buddy is a standard poodle. She's more dog than a lot of
> >>labs and goldens I know. Lean and good looking to boot. I happen to like
> >>afros, so YMMV.
> >
> > I would not go so far as to cast aspersions on the very finest of all
> > dogs the Labbadors, but my next door neighbour has a standard poodle,
> > and he is a perfect specimen of doghood: athletic, loyal, game, smart
> > and not at all dignified.
>
> I'll add to the chorus: Standard poodles are great dogs and look best
> unfrou-frou'd.
The poodle started as a retriever and the stupid-looking clip was to
keep them low-drag yet warm while retrieving in cold water. I doubt
if anyone used them for this job today, but I do know that someone has
used standard poodles as sled dogs.
Mary "Probably not in the retriever clip, though."
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/