Re: PING: V and Mary

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 2:05:03 PM3/26/13

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On Mar 26, 12:29 pm, Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:34:06 AM UTC-7, M C Hamster wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
>
> > <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:26:25 PM UTC-7, rroger wrote:
>
> > >>http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-03/tiny-car-drives-itself
>
> > >Self-driving, eh? I suppose that's the natural extension of the automatic transmission.
>
> > >Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a manual transmission. With a paucity of features (if only because the step up from puir ole Batray to anything built in the last 20 years was so large anyway.)
>
> > >Radio. Airbags, Driver's side door that opens from the inside. I tell you, what will they think of next?
>
> > I'm so happy you have a yellow car. I am endlessly amazed at how cars
>
> > in the US are devoid of any color whatsoever, except for the very
>
> > occasional red car. My first card was a lovely bright orange Mazda
>
> > RX-2.
>
> >http://www.mazdarotary.net/images/feature_cars/madrx2/madrx2_003.jpg
>
> > I could have gotten it in a lovely lime / puke green, too.
>
> >http://encarsglobe.com/photo/md/mazda-rx-2/09/
>
> > I've never had a yellow car, though. I'm envious.
>
> It's my second yellow car (and my third car, and my first new car.) The yellow was a non-negotiable as a new car purchase,
>
Just out of curiosity, if there was ANY other reason(s) for yellow
other than "because I like yellow", (or words to that effect), what
were/was they/it?

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 2:15:11 PM3/26/13

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On Mar 26, 11:19 am, Mary <mrfeath...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Mar 26, 8:50 am, Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:26:25 PM UTC-7, rroger wrote:
> > >http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-03/tiny-car-drives-itself
>
> > Self-driving, eh? I suppose that's the natural extension of the automatic transmission.
>
> > Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a manual transmission. With a paucity of features (if only because the step up from puir ole Batray to anything built in the last 20 years was so large anyway.)
>
> > Radio. Airbags, Driver's side door that opens from the inside. I tell you, what will they think of next?
>

> I find it odd that they think manual transmission unusual.
>
With an automatic transmission, there's less that the driver has to
actually physically do. In other words, automatic transmissions are,
AFAIK, easier to use.

bill van

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Mar 26, 2013, 2:34:36 PM3/26/13

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In article <9gr82a-...@porter.pffcu.org>,
spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:

> M C Hamster <davo...@nospam-speakeasy.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Veronique

> > <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:26:25 PM UTC-7, rroger wrote:
> >>> http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-03/tiny-car-drives-itself
> >>
> >>Self-driving, eh? I suppose that's the natural extension of the automatic
> >>transmission.
> >>
> >>Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on
> >>purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a
> >>manual transmission. With a paucity of features (if only because the step
> >>up from puir ole Batray to anything built in the last 20 years was so large
> >>anyway.)
> >>
> >>Radio. Airbags, Driver's side door that opens from the inside. I tell you,
> >>what will they think of next?
> >

> > I'm so happy you have a yellow car. I am endlessly amazed at how cars
> > in the US are devoid of any color whatsoever, except for the very
> > occasional red car. My first card was a lovely bright orange Mazda
> > RX-2.
> >
> > http://www.mazdarotary.net/images/feature_cars/madrx2/madrx2_003.jpg
> >
> > I could have gotten it in a lovely lime / puke green, too.
> > http://encarsglobe.com/photo/md/mazda-rx-2/09/
> >
> > I've never had a yellow car, though. I'm envious.
>

> My Subaru is red. And a manual. I will try never to buy another
> automatic although it is becoming harder and harder. Luckily a lot of
> Subaru owners seem to feel the same way.

Red was our first choice when we were buying our new Forester, but we
had to settle for our second choice, blue, since I wanted a manual
transmission and nearly everything on the lot was a. automatic and b.
white, black, light grey or dark grey. We had to wait a few days while
they checked with the waterfront industrial operation where the cars are
stored after they arrive from Japan.

bill

Les Albert

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Mar 26, 2013, 2:41:21 PM3/26/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:34:36 -0700, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
wrote:

> spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:
>> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
>> > <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >>Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on
>> >>purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a

>> >>manual transmission. ...

>> My Subaru is red. And a manual. I will try never to buy another
>> automatic although it is becoming harder and harder. Luckily a lot of
>> Subaru owners seem to feel the same way.

>Red was our first choice when we were buying our new Forester, but we
>had to settle for our second choice, blue, since I wanted a manual
>transmission and nearly everything on the lot was a. automatic and b.
>white, black, light grey or dark grey. We had to wait a few days while
>they checked with the waterfront industrial operation where the cars are
>stored after they arrive from Japan.

What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?

Les

bill van

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Mar 26, 2013, 3:08:40 PM3/26/13

to

In article <okq3l85s1lsc1r5bp...@4ax.com>,

I've always found them more fun to drive, with perkier acceleration, the
ability to use the engine rather than the brakes to slow down, and with
an enhanced sense of contact with the road, thought not as enhanced as
falling off a motorcycle. I like the engine sounds you get with a
manual, and the sense of being more involved with the driving than is
required by an automatic transmission with power everything.

Sue preferred an automatic, but now that she has stopped driving, it was
my choice to make. And finally, car makers in my experience charge extra
for an automatic transmission, even though they have nearly stopped
stocking the "default" manual transmission.

bill

Les Albert

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Mar 26, 2013, 3:56:24 PM3/26/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:08:40 -0700, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>

I learned to drive with a manual transmission, and I had a couple of
my first cars with manual transmissions, so I understand what you are
saying. Since most of my driving is now in city traffic I would find
the manual a bit tedious at times. And I've come to enjoy the quiet
ride.

Car manufacturers charge more (extra, or whatever you want to call it)
for an automatic transmission because they cost more to make.
Look at the difference:

http://tinyurl.com/cvu2eo6 = clutch mechanism

http://tinyurl.com/bupe2bq = 3-speed automatic

Les

S. Checker

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Mar 26, 2013, 4:32:19 PM3/26/13

to

Everything he said, plus I feel you get better control in the snow. Gas
milage is better with a manual than with a typical 3- or 4-speed
automatic transmission, but the new 8-speed transmissions and CVTs
nullify that advantage. And finally, it gives you something to do with
your left foot.
--
Romanes eunt domus!

Les Albert

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Mar 26, 2013, 5:04:56 PM3/26/13

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On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 16:32:19 -0400, spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker)
wrote:

I understand all of the advantages it offers you. Re your last
sentence, they made a movie of that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Left_Foot_

Les

M C Hamster

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Mar 26, 2013, 5:12:39 PM3/26/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 16:32:19 -0400, spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker)
wrote:

> And finally, it gives you something to do with
>your left foot.

Such a problem to have.
--

"Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival

N Jill Marsh

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Mar 26, 2013, 5:46:08 PM3/26/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:34:06 -0500, M C Hamster
<davo...@nospam-speakeasy.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
><veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>>On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:26:25 PM UTC-7, rroger wrote:
>>> http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-03/tiny-car-drives-itself
>>
>>Self-driving, eh? I suppose that's the natural extension of the automatic transmission.
>>
>>Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a manual transmission. With a paucity of features (if only because the step up from puir ole Batray to anything built in the last 20 years was so large anyway.)
>>
>>Radio. Airbags, Driver's side door that opens from the inside. I tell you, what will they think of next?
>>
>
>I'm so happy you have a yellow car. I am endlessly amazed at how cars
>in the US are devoid of any color whatsoever, except for the very
>occasional red car. My first card was a lovely bright orange Mazda
>RX-2.
>
>http://www.mazdarotary.net/images/feature_cars/madrx2/madrx2_003.jpg
>
>I could have gotten it in a lovely lime / puke green, too.
>http://encarsglobe.com/photo/md/mazda-rx-2/09/
>
>I've never had a yellow car, though. I'm envious.

I also have a yellow car with a manual transmission, a radio, airbags,
and a driver's side door that opens from the inside. Usually.

--
nj"internym here"m

Send reggae, guns & numbers.

N Jill Marsh

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Mar 26, 2013, 5:46:49 PM3/26/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
wrote:

>What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?

They are cheaper, and harder to steal.

N Jill Marsh

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Mar 26, 2013, 5:49:56 PM3/26/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
<veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:

>So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow. It is fabulous, the doors open from the INSIDE, and I did break down and indulge in putting in custom red leather seats (and THAT was a cause for consternation across the salesdroid universe as well. "But the interior is black and gray!" S'okay, I still want red leather. "But we don't be able to match the carpet!" S'okay, black, red, and yellow is a great combination. And it is.

If I buy another car in the next few years (unlikely, now being a city
dweller), this is the car I will buy.

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 6:12:47 PM3/26/13

to

On Mar 26, 12:29 pm, Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop,
>

Okay, I know what a Fiat 500 is, but where does the "Pop" part come in
or what does it mean; if there's more to it than just being part of
the name?

>
> the doors open from the INSIDE,
>

NOOOOOO, really? ; )

--
rr-as far as I've always known, most, if not all car doors open from
both the inside and the outside-oger

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 6:18:36 PM3/26/13

to

On Mar 26, 1:20 pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

> Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >It's my second yellow car (and my third car, and my first new car.)

> >The yellow was a non-negotiable as a new car purchase, although sales
> >minions 1-3 were confused on that point. You go to the websites, they
> >all offer to "build your car!" and the first choice is color. So why
> >oh why oh why oh are the hundreds of cars on the lot white, black, or
> >silver, with one red (in the wrong model) and one blue, and last
> >year's model (automatic) in the interesting pale olive (but no tan,
> >dark olive, orange-copper, or yellow?) And why, when you move up the
> >ranks to the turbo and special super-model, do the color choices
> >*diminish*?
>
> So why NOT order the "build your car" from the factory? My current
> wife wanted a particular unusual mix of features (manual windows,
>
Just out of curiosity, why did she want/does she like manual windows?

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 6:24:30 PM3/26/13

to

On Mar 26, 4:32 pm, spam...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:
> bill van <bill...@delete.shaw.ca> wrote:
> > In article <okq3l85s1lsc1r5bp3rhrhjfdv2ejvj...@4ax.com>,

> > Les Albert <lalbe...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
> >> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>
> > I've always found them more fun to drive, with perkier acceleration, the
> > ability to use the engine rather than the brakes to slow down, and with
> > an enhanced sense of contact with the road, thought not as enhanced as
> > falling off a motorcycle. I like the engine sounds you get with a
> > manual, and the sense of being more involved with the driving than is
> > required by an automatic transmission with power everything.
>
> > Sue preferred an automatic, but now that she has stopped driving, it was
> > my choice to make. And finally, car makers in my experience charge extra
> > for an automatic transmission, even though they have nearly stopped
> > stocking the "default" manual transmission.
>
> Everything he said, plus I feel you get better control in the snow. Gas
> milage is better with a manual than with a typical 3- or 4-speed
> automatic transmission, but the new 8-speed transmissions and CVTs
> nullify that advantage.
>
> And finally, it gives you something to do with your left foot.
>

You mean other than have it sit on the floor board?

S. Checker

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Mar 26, 2013, 6:46:12 PM3/26/13

to

What will V drive then?

And won't she please, please stick around? There are too few sheep
being mentioned in genteel ways these days.
--
We are here on Earth to do good for others. What the others are here for
I don't know.
-- W.H. Auden

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 7:02:14 PM3/26/13

to

On Mar 26, 6:46 pm, spam...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:

> N Jill Marsh <njma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
> > <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow. It is fabulous, the doors open from the INSIDE, and I did break down and indulge in putting in custom red leather seats (and THAT was a cause for consternation across the salesdroid universe as well. "But the interior is black and gray!" S'okay, I still want red leather. "But we don't be able to match the carpet!" S'okay, black, red, and yellow is a great combination. And it is.
>
> > If I buy another car in the next few years (unlikely, now being a city
> > dweller), this is the car I will buy.
>
> What will V drive then?
>

Whatever car she has at the time, as long as it's still in good shape
and drivable.

bill van

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Mar 26, 2013, 7:53:53 PM3/26/13

to

In article <d8u3l85otph0vpv89...@4ax.com>,

Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:08:40 -0700, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
> wrote:
> > Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
> >> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>
> >I've always found them more fun to drive, with perkier acceleration, the
> >ability to use the engine rather than the brakes to slow down, and with
> >an enhanced sense of contact with the road, thought not as enhanced as
> >falling off a motorcycle. I like the engine sounds you get with a
> >manual, and the sense of being more involved with the driving than is
> >required by an automatic transmission with power everything.
> >Sue preferred an automatic, but now that she has stopped driving, it was
> >my choice to make. And finally, car makers in my experience charge extra
> >for an automatic transmission, even though they have nearly stopped
> >stocking the "default" manual transmission.
>
> I learned to drive with a manual transmission, and I had a couple of
> my first cars with manual transmissions, so I understand what you are
> saying. Since most of my driving is now in city traffic I would find
> the manual a bit tedious at times. And I've come to enjoy the quiet
> ride.

Sure, I can see those and other reasons why people might (and apparently
do, in large numbers) prefer automatics. But after more than 25 years of
owning automatics, I'm enjoying my manual now.

bill, vroom

Veronique

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Mar 26, 2013, 8:04:40 PM3/26/13

to

Yes, automatic transmissions are mostly idiot-proof. This is not to say enabling idiots has made the roads any safer or more enjoyable to drive.

I agree with Mr. Goss, there are physical limitations that preclude using a manual transmission. And I agree with Les, automatics are much less tedious in heavy stop-and-go traffic.

That being said, along with the FIATs, we tried an automatic 2012 Mini Cooper...and it was awful. Beyond awful. Clunky and heavy and no zip at all. I don't want my car's transmission making decisions for me, especially as a significant portion of my driving is up and down and around and around.

I also (cf NJill) like the fact that stealing a manual transmission car is not quite so appealing to car thieves.

V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

Veronique

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Mar 26, 2013, 8:12:06 PM3/26/13

to

On Mar 26, 9:48 am, Pastime <wsubc...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:

> Veronique wrote:
> > So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow.
>

> I don't suppose ...
>
> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg>
>
> ... or ...
>
> <http://www.brussels-blog.co.uk/a-visit-to-autoworld-brussels/fiat-500-2/>
>
> ...?
>
> Nah, only kidding. I know the one you mean, and I like them.

Aren't they absolutely adorable? Actually, I like one sitting next to
the one in the second photo, the Fiat Topolino, even better.

http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/07/02-fiat-topolino/Fiat-Topolino.jpg

Veronique

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Mar 26, 2013, 8:15:41 PM3/26/13

to

Yellow cars have the best visibility (dark green cars have the worst).
I would have been happy to settle for lime green, hot pink, or pale
lavender, but apparently those are even harder to find.

Veronique

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Mar 26, 2013, 8:20:36 PM3/26/13

to

On Mar 26, 3:46 pm, spam...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:

> N Jill Marsh <njma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
> > <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow. It is fabulous, the doors open from the INSIDE, and I did break down and indulge in putting in custom red leather seats (and THAT was a cause for consternation across the salesdroid universe as well. "But the interior is black and gray!" S'okay, I still want red leather. "But we don't be able to match the carpet!" S'okay, black, red, and yellow is a great combination. And it is.
>
> > If I buy another car in the next few years (unlikely, now being a city
> > dweller), this is the car I will buy.
>
> What will V drive then?

We were told we should get extra protections if we were planning to
keep our new car for a very long time, like eight years or more.

We just cracked up. Mr. Dak drove us in Medium Red, which (until Apis)
was our "new" vehicle, being as young as 43 years old. And of course,
we are retiring the 45 year old Batray. And that only because my
driving commutes changed drastically AND it is very difficult to a
trustworthy professional mechanic who works on old cars.

>
> And won't she please, please stick around? There are too few sheep
> being mentioned in genteel ways these days.

I will have you know I have entirely corrupted Facebook, sheepwise.

Tim Wright

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Mar 26, 2013, 8:29:34 PM3/26/13

to

I doubt color has anything to do with it. Whatever color vehicle my
wife drives seems to be equipped with a cloak of invisibility. Crazy
ass woman driving a big ass SUV and they'll pull right out in front of
her. My OS handle is almost worn out.

--

Tim W

Peter Boulding

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Mar 26, 2013, 9:07:45 PM3/26/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com> wrote in
<okq3l85s1lsc1r5bp...@4ax.com>:

>What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?

1. I'm British. Everyone here drives a manual unless (a) they're
disabled/elderly or (b) they're the kind of people who have servants to wipe
their bums for them. Or would like to.

2. You're allowed to take your driving test in an automatic, but if you do
you're not allowed to drive manuals.

3. Automatics are sissy.

4. *I'll* decide when it's time to change up or down, thank you very much. I
don't like GM's daddy-knows-best user interfaces any more than Microsoft's
or Apple's.

5. I haven't driven an automatic in a long time so this may not be current,
but in the days when I was occasionally required to use them, I found they
wouldn't provide the same degree of quick oomph that you can get with a
manual by slamming it down a gear and putting your foot down. They would
thus deny me that chance of getting past some ditherer on the only straight
for miles that's just long enough for me to get by before the next corner.

6. Automatics cost more.

7. Automatic gearboxes have more to go wrong and cost more to fix.

8. Everyone should experience the thrill of having the gear lever come off
in their hands at least once in their lives.

--
Regards, Peter "but preferably not the steering wheel" Boulding
pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal Images and Music: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=794240&content=music

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 9:13:56 PM3/26/13

to

On Mar 26, 9:07 pm, Peter Boulding <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalbe...@aol.com> wrote in
> <okq3l85s1lsc1r5bp3rhrhjfdv2ejvj...@4ax.com>:

>
> >What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
> >transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>

> 2. You're allowed to take your driving test in an automatic, but if you do
> you're not allowed to drive manuals.
>

If that's REALLY true, then why?

Veronique

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Mar 26, 2013, 9:25:28 PM3/26/13

to

I don't honestly remember the pulling-outestness behavior of other
drivers when I drove the '73 yellow Superbeetle (it had so many issues
of its own, being hit by an SUV-- not that there were many SUVs back
then-- wouldn't have been the worst thing, except maybe for the
passengers.)

Batray, color of dust, is basically invisible on the road. Good at
dodging, though.

Medium Red (red and no-nonsense) gets a good deal of respect.

In two days of driving Apis, I haven't noticed either way.

Veronique

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Mar 26, 2013, 9:29:00 PM3/26/13

to

On Mar 25, 7:05 pm, Sanford Manley <ansa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/25/2013 6:26 PM, rroger wrote:
>
> >http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-03/tiny-car-drives-itself
>
> Small enough to bury your smashed corpse in after an 18 wheeler
> runs you over!

And your choice of vehicle is what, a cement truck?

I drive cars small enough to stay out of the way.

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 9:43:18 PM3/26/13

to

V, that doesn't help, it still just looks like a regular Fiat 500 to
me. What about it makes it "Pop" and/or what are the differences
between the "Pop" one and a regular Fiat 500?

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 9:46:50 PM3/26/13

to

> In two days of driving Apis, I haven't noticed either way.
>

What are Batrays and Apis?

rroger

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Mar 26, 2013, 9:49:45 PM3/26/13

to

The new Rick Moranis movie: "Honey, I blew up the kid's toy
car". ; )

Pastime

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Mar 26, 2013, 10:28:24 PM3/26/13

to

Veronique wrote:

> On Mar 26, 9:48�am, Pastime <wsubc...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
> > Veronique wrote:
> > > So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow.
> >
> > I don't suppose ...
> >
> > <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg>
> >
> > ... or ...
> >
> > <http://www.brussels-blog.co.uk/a-visit-to-autoworld-brussels/fiat-500-2/>
> >
> > ...?
> >
> > Nah, only kidding. I know the one you mean, and I like them.
>
> Aren't they absolutely adorable?

They certainly are.

> Actually, I like one sitting next to
> the one in the second photo, the Fiat Topolino, even better.
>
> http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/07/02-fiat-topolino/Fiat-Topolino.jpg

But the one in the back of that second photo is surely a Citroen 2CV?
Very like this one, in fact:

<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Citroen_2cv_1949_060117.jpg>
--
John

Pastime

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Mar 26, 2013, 10:30:30 PM3/26/13

to

So that people who don't know how to change gear don't drive the kind
of cars where you have to, at least on public roads. A safety issue.
--
John

Pastime

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Mar 26, 2013, 10:31:00 PM3/26/13

to

Peter Boulding wrote:

> 8. Everyone should experience the thrill of having the gear lever come off
> in their hands at least once in their lives.

Is that what the kids are calling it nowadays?
--
John

bill van

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Mar 26, 2013, 11:49:00 PM3/26/13

to

In article <3ai4l8lvghiq45jda...@4ax.com>,

Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 01:07:45 +0000, Peter Boulding
> <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:

> >5. I haven't driven an automatic in a long time so this may not be current,
> >but in the days when I was occasionally required to use them, I found they
> >wouldn't provide the same degree of quick oomph that you can get with a
> >manual by slamming it down a gear and putting your foot down. They would
> >thus deny me that chance of getting past some ditherer on the only straight
> >for miles that's just long enough for me to get by before the next corner.
>
> You have been out of the loop carwise for a long time.
>

I don't know about that. My new Subaru has a four-banger under the hood
like most of the automatics I've owned, but when I do what Peter
described -- drop down a gear and hit the gas pedal -- it has a much
quicker surge of acceleration than any of the automatics did. An
automatic with enough power can catch up, but the ones I have driven
don't have that instant surge you can get with a manual. I think you'd
need to put at least six cylinders in an automatic to match that.

Perhaps you have been out of the manual transmission loop for too long,
and you're thinking of those standards decades ago with the stick
attached to the steering column and three forward gears.

bill

M C Hamster

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Mar 26, 2013, 11:49:46 PM3/26/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:41:28 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

>Mary <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>I find it odd that they think manual transmission unusual. I haven't
>>owned anything else since my 1979 Civic. We never even consider
>>buying automatics.
>
>My wife has developing arthritis, and the clutch on her Matrix is
>pretty stiff. Seven years ago, she had to special-order from the
>factory to get a manual transmission with the feature mix she wanted.
>No arthritis seven years ago, so the stiff clutch wasn't a problem.
>
>So we've bought our next car, at which time I go from a tiny
>two-seater ultra-economy car to a high station wagon, and she gets the
>Echo. But first I have to get my car ready for sale, and I haven't
>done that yet.
>
>Anyhow, arthritis and automatic transmissions go well together.

As do certain other physical conditions.

I do have one of those manual automatic Tiptronic things in my car,
but I've stopped using it. It really doesn't do much more than the
auto transmission does.

I did have a very early Honda Civic that required me to shift gears
manually (but there was no clutch on the floor). That was fun.
--

"Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival

Les Albert

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Mar 27, 2013, 12:05:37 AM3/27/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:49:00 -0700, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
wrote:

The only automatics I had were either 6 or 8 cylinders, and a rotary
RX7.

Les

Greg Goss

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Mar 27, 2013, 1:30:16 AM3/27/13

to

rroger <raus...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Mar 26, 1:20�pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >It's my second yellow car (and my third car, and my first new car.)

>> >The yellow was a non-negotiable as a new car purchase, although sales
>> >minions 1-3 were confused on that point. You go to the websites, they
>> >all offer to "build your car!" and the first choice is color. So why
>> >oh why oh why oh are the hundreds of cars on the lot white, black, or
>> >silver, with one red (in the wrong model) and one blue, and last
>> >year's model (automatic) in the interesting pale olive (but no tan,
>> >dark olive, orange-copper, or yellow?) And why, when you move up the
>> >ranks to the turbo and special super-model, do the color choices
>> >*diminish*?
>>
>> So why NOT order the "build your car" from the factory? �My current
>> wife wanted a particular unusual mix of features (manual windows,
>>
>Just out of curiosity, why did she want/does she like manual windows?

She thinks that an extra motor in each door is one more thing to go
wrong. My current car is my first one with motorized windows, and
indeed, the driver's side one gets a bit reluctant when it's both cold
and wet.
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.

Greg Goss

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Mar 27, 2013, 1:34:51 AM3/27/13

to

Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:08:40 -0700, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
>wrote:
>> Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:34:36 -0700, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>> > spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:

>>> >> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
>>> >> > <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> >> >>Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on
>>> >> >>purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a

>>> >> >>manual transmission. ...
>
>>> >> My Subaru is red. And a manual. I will try never to buy another
>>> >> automatic although it is becoming harder and harder. Luckily a lot of
>>> >> Subaru owners seem to feel the same way.
>
>>> >Red was our first choice when we were buying our new Forester, but we
>>> >had to settle for our second choice, blue, since I wanted a manual
>>> >transmission and nearly everything on the lot was a. automatic and b.
>>> >white, black, light grey or dark grey. We had to wait a few days while
>>> >they checked with the waterfront industrial operation where the cars are
>>> >stored after they arrive from Japan.

>
>>> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>>> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>

>>I've always found them more fun to drive, with perkier acceleration, the
>>ability to use the engine rather than the brakes to slow down, and with
>>an enhanced sense of contact with the road, thought not as enhanced as
>>falling off a motorcycle. I like the engine sounds you get with a
>>manual, and the sense of being more involved with the driving than is
>>required by an automatic transmission with power everything.
>>Sue preferred an automatic, but now that she has stopped driving, it was
>>my choice to make. And finally, car makers in my experience charge extra
>>for an automatic transmission, even though they have nearly stopped
>>stocking the "default" manual transmission.
>
>
>
>I learned to drive with a manual transmission, and I had a couple of
>my first cars with manual transmissions, so I understand what you are
>saying. Since most of my driving is now in city traffic I would find
>the manual a bit tedious at times. And I've come to enjoy the quiet
>ride.
>

>Car manufacturers charge more (extra, or whatever you want to call it)
>for an automatic transmission because they cost more to make.
>Look at the difference:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/cvu2eo6 = clutch mechanism
>
>http://tinyurl.com/bupe2bq = 3-speed automatic

Not a fair comparison. You're including the gearbox in one, but not
in the other.

The gears in the manual transmission is the only major repair I put
into my car in the seven years I owned it (other than the big battery
that I never did replace.)

Greg Goss

unread,

Mar 27, 2013, 1:38:39 AM3/27/13

to

Peter Boulding <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:

>8. Everyone should experience the thrill of having the gear lever come off
>in their hands at least once in their lives.

I was so startled that I shoved it back where it came from. It
clicked back into place and stayed there.

For three more years. It never again came out.

I was backing out of a parking space, so there was no highway control
issue.

Snidely

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Mar 27, 2013, 2:44:29 AM3/27/13

to

N Jill Marsh explained on 3/26/2013 :

> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>

> They are cheaper, and harder to steal.

The cheapness factor has largely disappeared, hasn't it? Parts and
labor still win, but volume and warehousing are losing.

Harder to steal, yeah, for the unskilled thief, so they'll just pull
the wheels off and yank the motor, and leave the rest for you. Serious
thiefs? Won't even slow them down, unless you leave it where they can
see the neighbor's Porsche instead.

Fuel economy, as Howard (IIHMAR) said, is no longer an advantage
(beginning with 5-speed lockup automatics, and how does a mere mortal
compete with an 8-speed dual-clutch masterpiece?).

So that leaves us with the driving sensation. Echoing what others have
said, I feel more in control with a stick. That's about to join the
list of illusions, thanks to positive traction control and electronic
suspensions and the like, but I still feel it.

And (for Les) I have plenty of experience of driving a stick in
stop-and-go traffic, and I still choose to own one.

/dps

--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

Snidely

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Mar 27, 2013, 2:51:47 AM3/27/13

to

On Tuesday, Veronique queried:

I'm not too sure those pictures match. In the Brussels pic, that looks
to me like an old Citroen (a model I've never seen moving, AFAICR).

/dps

--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl

Snidely

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Mar 27, 2013, 2:52:51 AM3/27/13

to

Snidely presented the following explanation :

> On Tuesday, Veronique queried:
>
>> On Mar 26, 9:48ï¿œam, Pastime <wsubc...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
>>> Veronique wrote:
>>>> So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow.
>>>
>>> I don't suppose ...
>>>
>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg>
>>>
>>> ... or ...
>>>
>>> <http://www.brussels-blog.co.uk/a-visit-to-autoworld-brussels/fiat-500-2/>
>>>
>>> ...?
>>>
>>> Nah, only kidding. I know the one you mean, and I like them.
>>
>>
>> Aren't they absolutely adorable? Actually, I like one sitting next to
>> the one in the second photo, the Fiat Topolino, even better.
>>
>> http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/07/02-fiat-topolino/Fiat-Topolino.jpg
>
> I'm not too sure those pictures match. In the Brussels pic, that looks to me
> like an old Citroen (a model I've never seen moving, AFAICR).

There's an echo in here, isn't there?

/dps "JOHN John john"

--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.

Snidely

unread,

Mar 27, 2013, 3:06:27 AM3/27/13

to

Veronique wrote on 3/26/2013 :
> On Mar 26, 11:05ï¿œam, rroger <raust...@aol.com> wrote:

>> On Mar 26, 12:29ï¿œpm, Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> It's my second yellow car (and my third car, and my first new car.) The
>>> yellow was a non-negotiable as a new car purchase,
>>

>> Just out of curiosity, if there was ANY other reason(s) for yellow
>> other than "because I like yellow", (or words to that effect), what
>> were/was they/it?
>
> Yellow cars have the best visibility (dark green cars have the worst).
> I would have been happy to settle for lime green, hot pink, or pale
> lavender, but apparently those are even harder to find.

I thought safety orange was the best visibility.

A long time ago, some magazine (probably Pop Sci) checked with traffic
watchers in some big city. These folks, paid to monitor traffic
levels, were in upper floor of a strategic building. They were
watching on sunny days, rainy days, and hazy days. ISTR that the
orange worked best for them.

(The yellow may have an advantage after dark, but Scotchlite tape can
fix that. So can after-market marker lights.)

/dps
"blue; khalihari beige; Datsun's pale yellow; grey; forest green; grey"

bill van

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Mar 27, 2013, 3:30:22 AM3/27/13

to

In article <mn.d5977dd3882db8d3.127094@snitoo>,

Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, Veronique queried:
>

> > On Mar 26, 9:48�am, Pastime <wsubc...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
> >> Veronique wrote:
> >>> So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow.
> >>
> >> I don't suppose ...
> >>
> >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg>
> >>
> >> ... or ...
> >>
> >> <http://www.brussels-blog.co.uk/a-visit-to-autoworld-brussels/fiat-500-2/>
> >> ...?
> >>
> >> Nah, only kidding. I know the one you mean, and I like them.
> >
> > Aren't they absolutely adorable? Actually, I like one sitting next to
> > the one in the second photo, the Fiat Topolino, even better.
> >
> > http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/07/02-fiat-topolino/Fiat-Topolino.
> > jpg
>
> I'm not too sure those pictures match. In the Brussels pic, that looks
> to me like an old Citroen (a model I've never seen moving, AFAICR).
>

In the Brussels pic, I don't know the little yellow car. But the emblem
on the grille should be identifiable by someone. It resembles the emblem
on the Fiat in the commons.wikimedia pic, so that's a good guess.

The green car that's partly in the Brussels picture is undoubtedly a
Citroen, and it's the model that competed with the VW Beetle from the
late 1940s into the '90s. It was known as the ugly duckling in some
European countries. I saw many in Europe decades ago, and a few in North
America. I don't know about duckling, but it was truly ugly. OTOH,
Wikipedia says the design was Bauhaus-inspired, and framed some inspired
engineering.

bill

Nick Spalding

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Mar 27, 2013, 4:17:52 AM3/27/13

to

Veronique wrote, in
<a83718f3-5533-4a8a...@q3g2000pbv.googlegroups.com>
on Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:20:36 -0700 (PDT):

> On Mar 26, 3:46�pm, spam...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:
> > N Jill Marsh <njma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
> > > <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow. It is fabulous, the doors open from the INSIDE, and I did break down and indulge in putting in custom red leather seats (and THAT was a cause for consternation across the salesdroid universe as well. "But the interior is black and gray!" S'okay, I still want red leather. "But we don't be able to match the carpet!" S'okay, black, red, and yellow is a great combination. And it is.
> >
> > > If I buy another car in the next few years (unlikely, now being a city
> > > dweller), this is the car I will buy.
> >
> > What will V drive then?
>
> We were told we should get extra protections if we were planning to
> keep our new car for a very long time, like eight years or more.
>
> We just cracked up. Mr. Dak drove us in Medium Red, which (until Apis)
> was our "new" vehicle, being as young as 43 years old. And of course,
> we are retiring the 45 year old Batray. And that only because my
> driving commutes changed drastically AND it is very difficult to a
> trustworthy professional mechanic who works on old cars.

Where is Batray going?

> > And won't she please, please stick around? There are too few sheep
> > being mentioned in genteel ways these days.
>
>
> I will have you know I have entirely corrupted Facebook, sheepwise.
>
> V.
--
Nick Spalding

Nick Spalding

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Mar 27, 2013, 4:18:55 AM3/27/13

to

rroger wrote, in
<acc434a5-8f60-413a...@f5g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>
on Tue, 26 Mar 2013 15:24:30 -0700 (PDT):

> On Mar 26, 4:32�pm, spam...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:
> > bill van <bill...@delete.shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > In article <okq3l85s1lsc1r5bp3rhrhjfdv2ejvj...@4ax.com>,

> > > Les Albert <lalbe...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
> > >> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
> >

> > > I've always found them more fun to drive, with perkier acceleration, the
> > > ability to use the engine rather than the brakes to slow down, and with
> > > an enhanced sense of contact with the road, thought not as enhanced as
> > > falling off a motorcycle. I like the engine sounds you get with a
> > > manual, and the sense of being more involved with the driving than is
> > > required by an automatic transmission with power everything.
> >
> > > Sue preferred an automatic, but now that she has stopped driving, it was
> > > my choice to make. And finally, car makers in my experience charge extra
> > > for an automatic transmission, even though they have nearly stopped
> > > stocking the "default" manual transmission.
> >

> > Everything he said, plus I feel you get better control in the snow. Gas
> > milage is better with a manual than with a typical 3- or 4-speed
> > automatic transmission, but the new 8-speed transmissions and CVTs
> > nullify that advantage.
> >
> > And finally, it gives you something to do with your left foot.
> >
> You mean other than have it sit on the floor board?

In my little 16yo Hyundai there is a dummy pedal alongside the clutch to
rest my foot on.
--
Nick Spalding

Nick Spalding

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Mar 27, 2013, 4:24:10 AM3/27/13

to

Greg Goss wrote, in <arfeeq...@mid.individual.net>
on Tue, 26 Mar 2013 23:30:16 -0600:

It's one of the few things that has ever gone wrong in my 16yo Hyundai.
--
Nick Spalding

Snidely

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Mar 27, 2013, 4:29:15 AM3/27/13

to

Remember Wednesday, when Nick Spalding asked plainitively:

> Greg Goss wrote, in <arfeeq...@mid.individual.net>
> on Tue, 26 Mar 2013 23:30:16 -0600:
>
>> rroger <raus...@aol.com> wrote:
>>

>>> On Mar 26, 1:20ï¿œpm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>>> Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> It's my second yellow car (and my third car, and my first new car.)
>>>>> The yellow was a non-negotiable as a new car purchase, although sales
>>>>> minions 1-3 were confused on that point. You go to the websites, they
>>>>> all offer to "build your car!" and the first choice is color. So why
>>>>> oh why oh why oh are the hundreds of cars on the lot white, black, or
>>>>> silver, with one red (in the wrong model) and one blue, and last
>>>>> year's model (automatic) in the interesting pale olive (but no tan,
>>>>> dark olive, orange-copper, or yellow?) And why, when you move up the
>>>>> ranks to the turbo and special super-model, do the color choices
>>>>> *diminish*?
>>>>

>>>> So why NOT order the "build your car" from the factory? ï¿œMy current

>>>> wife wanted a particular unusual mix of features (manual windows,
>>>>
>>> Just out of curiosity, why did she want/does she like manual windows?
>>
>> She thinks that an extra motor in each door is one more thing to go
>> wrong. My current car is my first one with motorized windows, and
>> indeed, the driver's side one gets a bit reluctant when it's both cold
>> and wet.
>
> It's one of the few things that has ever gone wrong in my 16yo Hyundai.

I haven't had a car with power windows for more than 10 years. No
motor problems, but the plastic strap the motor pulled on broke in one
car [1]. The hard part was getting the door panel to snap tight when
putting it back on after the repair.

On the other hand, Jan had a Ford Bronco (the full-size one) that had
ornery windows.

[1] Not the car I had for 10 years and 220000 miles.

/dps

--
Ieri, oggi, domani

Pastime

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Mar 27, 2013, 6:27:47 AM3/27/13

to

bill van wrote:

> In article <mn.d5977dd3882db8d3.127094@snitoo>,
> Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, Veronique queried:
> >
> > > On Mar 26, 9:48�am, Pastime <wsubc...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
> > >> Veronique wrote:
> > >>> So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow.
> > >>
> > >> I don't suppose ...
> > >>
> > >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg>
> > >>
> > >> ... or ...
> > >>
> > >> <http://www.brussels-blog.co.uk/a-visit-to-autoworld-brussels/fiat-500-2/>
> > >> ...?
> > >>
> > >> Nah, only kidding. I know the one you mean, and I like them.
> > >
> > > Aren't they absolutely adorable? Actually, I like one sitting next to
> > > the one in the second photo, the Fiat Topolino, even better.
> > >
> > > http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/07/02-fiat-topolino/Fiat-Topolino.
> > > jpg
> >
> > I'm not too sure those pictures match. In the Brussels pic, that looks
> > to me like an old Citroen (a model I've never seen moving, AFAICR).
> >
> In the Brussels pic, I don't know the little yellow car. But the emblem
> on the grille should be identifiable by someone. It resembles the emblem
> on the Fiat in the commons.wikimedia pic, so that's a good guess.

Is it not a Fiat 500? That's what the title (and the URL) say.

> The green car that's partly in the Brussels picture is undoubtedly a
> Citroen, and it's the model that competed with the VW Beetle from the
> late 1940s into the '90s. It was known as the ugly duckling in some
> European countries. I saw many in Europe decades ago, and a few in North
> America. I don't know about duckling, but it was truly ugly. OTOH,
> Wikipedia says the design was Bauhaus-inspired, and framed some inspired
> engineering.

I like the 2CV, but it's not my favourite old French car. Possibly
because it was such a hit with the brown rice/macrame/beard set of the
1970s, and that put me off the car for life.
--
John

Pastime

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Mar 27, 2013, 6:29:26 AM3/27/13

to

Veronique wrote:

> On Mar 26, 3:46�pm, spam...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:
> > And won't she please, please stick around? There are too few sheep
> > being mentioned in genteel ways these days.
>
> I will have you know I have entirely corrupted Facebook, sheepwise.

Well, we need more ovine corruption here too.
--
John

Pastime

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Mar 27, 2013, 6:33:11 AM3/27/13

to

At first I thought it was short for "Popular", in the way that the old
Ford Anglia cheap variants here were named "Popular" and nicknamed
"Pop".

But Wikipedia says:

"The 500 is available with four different trim levels: Naked[...],
Pop, Lounge, and Sport."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_500_(2007)>
or: <http://tinyurl.com/cxfx6j3>
--
John

Nick Spalding

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Mar 27, 2013, 6:34:31 AM3/27/13

to

Pastime wrote, in <67i5l8t507v21s02o...@4ax.com>
on Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:27:47 +0000:

My favourite is the Citroen DS. Two of my neighbours had these back in
the 1960s, I think one of them still has, tucked away in his garage.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_DS>
--
Nick Spalding

Pastime

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Mar 27, 2013, 6:35:23 AM3/27/13

to

N Jill Marsh wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>

> wrote:
>
> >What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
> >transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>

> They are cheaper, and harder to steal.

I don't get this. Why are they harder to steal?
--
John

Peter Ward

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Mar 27, 2013, 6:58:57 AM3/27/13

to

bill van says...

It could be nicely prettied up:
<http://thirdbird.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/1938-citroen-2cv6-picasso-
citroen.jpg>
http://tinyurl.com/c2pcsasvio

--

Peter, from outside the asylum

I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
If you use a homeopath, remember to pay him or her with a 30th-
generation photocopy of a cheque.
- Znep

rroger

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Mar 27, 2013, 8:00:43 AM3/27/13

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Mar 27, 2013, 10:51:56 AM3/27/13

to

On Mar 26, 11:44 pm, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
> N Jill Marsh explained on 3/26/2013 :
>

> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalbe...@aol.com>

> > wrote:
>
> >> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
> >> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>
> > They are cheaper, and harder to steal.
>
> The cheapness factor has largely disappeared, hasn't it? Parts and
> labor still win, but volume and warehousing are losing.

Of the cars I looked at, the automatic transmission added
approximately $1,250.

>
> Harder to steal, yeah, for the unskilled thief, so they'll just pull
> the wheels off and yank the motor, and leave the rest for you. Serious
> thiefs? Won't even slow them down, unless you leave it where they can
> see the neighbor's Porsche instead.

Locally, we have many more issues with dumb teenage boys than
professional car thievess.

>
> Fuel economy, as Howard (IIHMAR) said, is no longer an advantage
> (beginning with 5-speed lockup automatics, and how does a mere mortal
> compete with an 8-speed dual-clutch masterpiece?).

It was about a 5-8 mpg difference in the models I looked at.

>
> So that leaves us with the driving sensation. Echoing what others have
> said, I feel more in control with a stick. That's about to join the
> list of illusions, thanks to positive traction control and electronic
> suspensions and the like, but I still feel it.

Having rented a few different small(er) automatics in the last six
months, the stick is a qualitatively different driving experience.

>
> And (for Les) I have plenty of experience of driving a stick in
> stop-and-go traffic, and I still choose to own one.

Hey, me too!

V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

Veronique

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Mar 27, 2013, 10:53:10 AM3/27/13

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On Mar 27, 3:35 am, Pastime <wsubc...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
> N Jill Marsh wrote:

> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalbe...@aol.com>

> > wrote:
>
> > >What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
> > >transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>
> > They are cheaper, and harder to steal.
>
> I don't get this. Why are they harder to steal?

Because the majority of idiot young men inclined to steal a car learn
on automatics only.

Veronique

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Mar 27, 2013, 10:57:33 AM3/27/13

to

On Mar 26, 10:30 pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> rroger <raust...@aol.com> wrote:

> >On Mar 26, 1:20 pm, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

> >> So why NOT order the "build your car" from the factory?

It was claimed at the dealership it might take as long as 3 months for
it to arrive, as they were so backed up in production.

> >>My current
> >> wife wanted a particular unusual mix of features (manual windows,
>

> >Just out of curiosity, why did she want/does she like manual windows?
>
> She thinks that an extra motor in each door is one more thing to go
> wrong. My current car is my first one with motorized windows, and
> indeed, the driver's side one gets a bit reluctant when it's both cold
> and wet.

I agree with her, although it's difficult to find crank windows in new
cars now (maybe pickup trucks still have the option?) Although I can
say, with good authority, even crank windows eventually give up the
ghost.

N Jill Marsh

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Mar 27, 2013, 11:01:00 AM3/27/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 23:44:29 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>N Jill Marsh explained on 3/26/2013 :
>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>>> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>>
>> They are cheaper, and harder to steal.
>
>The cheapness factor has largely disappeared, hasn't it? Parts and
>labor still win, but volume and warehousing are losing.

The last time I purchased a car, there was still over a grand
difference. I don't have an issue waiting for a car to show up, it's
not like I'm only going to use the thing for a couple of weeks.

>Harder to steal, yeah, for the unskilled thief, so they'll just pull
>the wheels off and yank the motor, and leave the rest for you. Serious
>thiefs? Won't even slow them down, unless you leave it where they can
>see the neighbor's Porsche instead.

Serious thieves don't steal tiny, cheap little stick shift cars, with
rusty tire rims and a scary paint job. The neighbours Accord is far
more appealing.

>Fuel economy, as Howard (IIHMAR) said, is no longer an advantage
>(beginning with 5-speed lockup automatics, and how does a mere mortal
>compete with an 8-speed dual-clutch masterpiece?).

My car uses about 40L to go about 700km, in the city, and I don't
drive it much these days anyway, so fuel economy isn't a concern.

>So that leaves us with the driving sensation.

No, it doesn't, not for everyone, anyway. I don't get any kind of
positive charge or feeling of control or enjoyment from driving a
stick. They are a bit more a pain in traffic, but if I'm going to be
in traffic I usually take public transit.

--
nj"internym here"m

Send reggae, guns & numbers.

N Jill Marsh

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Mar 27, 2013, 11:01:39 AM3/27/13

to

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:35:23 +0000, Pastime <wsub...@tznvy.pbz>
wrote:

This isn't the case in Europe, but here, it's becoming less and less
common for people to know how to drive them.

N Jill Marsh

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Mar 27, 2013, 11:02:39 AM3/27/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 18:13:56 -0700 (PDT), rroger <raus...@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Mar 26, 9:07�pm, Peter Boulding <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalbe...@aol.com> wrote in
>> <okq3l85s1lsc1r5bp3rhrhjfdv2ejvj...@4ax.com>:

>>
>> >What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>> >transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>>

>> 2. You're allowed to take your driving test in an automatic, but if you do
>> you're not allowed to drive manuals.
>>
>If that's REALLY true, then why?

Because you haven't demonstrated an ability to drive them, rroger.

Veronique

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Mar 27, 2013, 11:03:50 AM3/27/13

to

On Mar 27, 12:06 am, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Veronique wrote on 3/26/2013 :
>

> > On Mar 26, 11:05 am, rroger <raust...@aol.com> wrote:

> >> On Mar 26, 12:29 pm, Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> It's my second yellow car (and my third car, and my first new car.) The
> >>> yellow was a non-negotiable as a new car purchase,
>
> >> Just out of curiosity, if there was ANY other reason(s) for yellow
> >> other than "because I like yellow", (or words to that effect), what
> >> were/was they/it?
>
> > Yellow cars have the best visibility (dark green cars have the worst).
> > I would have been happy to settle for lime green, hot pink, or pale
> > lavender, but apparently those are even harder to find.
>
> I thought safety orange was the best visibility.
>
> A long time ago, some magazine (probably Pop Sci) checked with traffic
> watchers in some big city. These folks, paid to monitor traffic
> levels, were in upper floor of a strategic building. They were
> watching on sunny days, rainy days, and hazy days. ISTR that the
> orange worked best for them.
>
> (The yellow may have an advantage after dark, but Scotchlite tape can
> fix that. So can after-market marker lights.)

Yellow has an advantage in many different types of weather/light-- and
most of the articles compared it to white, which supposedly has the
best visibility in very specific circumstances. One article did
mention a particular orange as being safest, while another mentioned
lime green. I think that New Beetle color (Isotope Green? A very pale
greenish yellow that practically glowed) is the most visible color
I've ever seen.

Les Albert

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Mar 27, 2013, 12:18:40 PM3/27/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 23:38:39 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>Peter Boulding <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:

>>8. Everyone should experience the thrill of having the gear lever come off
>>in their hands at least once in their lives.

>I was so startled that I shoved it back where it came from. It
>clicked back into place and stayed there.
>For three more years. It never again came out.
>I was backing out of a parking space, so there was no highway control
>issue.

Yeah, but by your own admission you are very hard on your possessions:
you break iPads and computers, you pulled the handlebars out of the
fork of a bicycle while riding it, you broke two motor scooter chains
while riding them, etc. So pulling the out the gear lever is par for
your course.

Les

Les Albert

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Mar 27, 2013, 12:25:31 PM3/27/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 23:44:29 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>N Jill Marsh explained on 3/26/2013 :

>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>> wrote:

>>> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>>> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?

>> They are cheaper, and harder to steal.

>The cheapness factor has largely disappeared, hasn't it? Parts and
>labor still win, but volume and warehousing are losing.

>Harder to steal, yeah, for the unskilled thief, so they'll just pull
>the wheels off and yank the motor, and leave the rest for you. Serious
>thiefs? Won't even slow them down, unless you leave it where they can
>see the neighbor's Porsche instead.

As a footnote about stripping car parts, years ago we had a car that
had parts taken from it as it sat parked in the street overnight. I
asked the cops who responded why the thieves didn't just take the
whole car and dismantle it at their leisure. He said that if they got
caught it would be considered grand theft, a harsher sentence. But
stealing parts from a car is usually not even a jailable offense.

>Fuel economy, as Howard (IIHMAR) said, is no longer an advantage
>(beginning with 5-speed lockup automatics, and how does a mere mortal
>compete with an 8-speed dual-clutch masterpiece?).

>So that leaves us with the driving sensation. Echoing what others have
>said, I feel more in control with a stick. That's about to join the
>list of illusions, thanks to positive traction control and electronic
>suspensions and the like, but I still feel it.

>And (for Les) I have plenty of experience of driving a stick in
>stop-and-go traffic, and I still choose to own one.

You are what you feel. We don't have control over too much in life,
so control over the transmission is a plus.

Les

BillT...@invalid.com

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Mar 27, 2013, 2:10:01 PM3/27/13

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On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:33:24 -0400, spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker)
wrote:

viz Renault Dauphine whose lever never came off, but notoriously, you
could move it around like you were stirring cake batter and it would
never pop out of gear. ISTR that the circle so described would have
been ~1 foot.

Push start??!? Hell you could just tuck it under your arm and carry it
home. beep beep BEEP BEEP

BillT...@invalid.com

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Mar 27, 2013, 2:15:40 PM3/27/13

to

Forest-green Suburbans are so ubiquitous as to be virtually invisible.
I see dozens every day.

Les Albert

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Mar 27, 2013, 2:39:00 PM3/27/13

to

I don't know how this compares to the VW color, but many fire engines
are now this color for greatest visibility day or night:
http://macsystems.com/Nov19-2008.jpg

Les

rroger

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Mar 27, 2013, 3:35:44 PM3/27/13

to

It's my contention that if someone can not SEE, (not "notice", but
actually SEE), a big piece of metal, plastic, rubber, glass,
fiberglass, and sometimes, fake wood, either out-and-about, behind
them, or coming at them; then things like a certain color an/or the
head lights staying on all the time/being on in the daytime won't
help.

--
R.
:::::Dennis Miller voice from when he had his old HBO show::::: "of
course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong"

Heather

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Mar 27, 2013, 5:34:45 PM3/27/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
<veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:26:25 PM UTC-7, rroger wrote:
>> http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-03/tiny-car-drives-itself
>
>Self-driving, eh? I suppose that's the natural extension of the automatic transmission.
>
>Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a manual transmission. With a paucity of features (if only because the step up from puir ole Batray to anything built in the last 20 years was so large anyway.)
>
>Radio. Airbags, Driver's side door that opens from the inside. I tell you, what will they think of next?
>

Put us out of suspense. What car did you buy apart from it being
small, economical and yellow? Do you like it or do you still hanker
for your old beetle?

--
Heather

Heather

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Mar 27, 2013, 5:48:09 PM3/27/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:34:36 -0700, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
wrote:

>In article <9gr82a-...@porter.pffcu.org>,
> spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:

>
>> M C Hamster <davo...@nospam-speakeasy.net> wrote:
>> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
>> > <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:26:25 PM UTC-7, rroger wrote:
>> >>> http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-03/tiny-car-drives-itself
>> >>
>> >>Self-driving, eh? I suppose that's the natural extension of the automatic
>> >>transmission.
>> >>
>> >>Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on
>> >>purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a
>> >>manual transmission. With a paucity of features (if only because the step
>> >>up from puir ole Batray to anything built in the last 20 years was so large
>> >>anyway.)
>> >>
>> >>Radio. Airbags, Driver's side door that opens from the inside. I tell you,
>> >>what will they think of next?
>> >

>> > I'm so happy you have a yellow car. I am endlessly amazed at how cars
>> > in the US are devoid of any color whatsoever, except for the very
>> > occasional red car. My first card was a lovely bright orange Mazda
>> > RX-2.
>> >
>> > http://www.mazdarotary.net/images/feature_cars/madrx2/madrx2_003.jpg
>> >
>> > I could have gotten it in a lovely lime / puke green, too.
>> > http://encarsglobe.com/photo/md/mazda-rx-2/09/
>> >
>> > I've never had a yellow car, though. I'm envious.
>>
>> My Subaru is red. And a manual. I will try never to buy another
>> automatic although it is becoming harder and harder. Luckily a lot of
>> Subaru owners seem to feel the same way.
>
>Red was our first choice when we were buying our new Forester, but we
>had to settle for our second choice, blue, since I wanted a manual
>transmission and nearly everything on the lot was a. automatic and b.
>white, black, light grey or dark grey. We had to wait a few days while
>they checked with the waterfront industrial operation where the cars are
>stored after they arrive from Japan.
>

I had to wait over six weeks for my new car to arrive in Australia
because I wanted a blue manual model. Even if I had been prepared to
get an automatic they would still have had to get it from another
dealer because it is apparently a very popular colour. I chose it
because I was sick of boring beige even if it was a silvery metallic
version of beige. Now I realise that the blue shows up all the dust
that just blended into the beige.

--
Heather

Heather

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Mar 27, 2013, 5:52:07 PM3/27/13

to

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>

wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:34:36 -0700, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
>wrote:

>> spa...@gmail.com (S. Checker) wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
>>> > <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> >>Myself, I just blew the minds of five salespeople in insisting on
>>> >>purchasing a new car with manual transmission. A YELLOW new car with a

>>> >>manual transmission. ...

>
>>> My Subaru is red. And a manual. I will try never to buy another
>>> automatic although it is becoming harder and harder. Luckily a lot of
>>> Subaru owners seem to feel the same way.
>
>>Red was our first choice when we were buying our new Forester, but we
>>had to settle for our second choice, blue, since I wanted a manual
>>transmission and nearly everything on the lot was a. automatic and b.
>>white, black, light grey or dark grey. We had to wait a few days while
>>they checked with the waterfront industrial operation where the cars are
>>stored after they arrive from Japan.
>
>
>

>What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>

I like a manual transmission because I am used to it and because I
like having control of the gears. It is also much more fun driving a
manual. Automatics are boring.

--
Heather

Heather

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Mar 27, 2013, 8:06:38 PM3/27/13

to

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:39:00 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
wrote:

At one stage our fire engines in Melbourne were changed to fluorescent
"lime green" for supposedly greater visibility but they soon changed
them back to the traditional red.

--
Heather

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Mar 27, 2013, 9:24:01 PM3/27/13

to

Nick Spalding wrote:

> Pastime wrote, in <67i5l8t507v21s02o...@4ax.com>
> on Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:27:47 +0000:
>
> > bill van wrote:
> >
> > > In article <mn.d5977dd3882db8d3.127094@snitoo>,
> > > Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tuesday, Veronique queried:
> > > >
> > > > > On Mar 26, 9:48�am, Pastime <wsubc...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:

> > > > >> Veronique wrote:
> > > > >>> So now I'm driving a FIAT 500 Pop, in yellow.
> > > > >>

> > > > >> I don't suppose ...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ... or ...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> <http://www.brussels-blog.co.uk/a-visit-to-autoworld-brussels/fiat-500-2/>
> > > > >> ...?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Nah, only kidding. I know the one you mean, and I like them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Aren't they absolutely adorable? Actually, I like one sitting next to
> > > > > the one in the second photo, the Fiat Topolino, even better.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/07/02-fiat-topolino/Fiat-Topolino.
> > > > > jpg
> > > >
> > > > I'm not too sure those pictures match. In the Brussels pic, that looks
> > > > to me like an old Citroen (a model I've never seen moving, AFAICR).
> > > >
> > > In the Brussels pic, I don't know the little yellow car. But the emblem
> > > on the grille should be identifiable by someone. It resembles the emblem
> > > on the Fiat in the commons.wikimedia pic, so that's a good guess.
> >
> > Is it not a Fiat 500? That's what the title (and the URL) say.
> >
> > > The green car that's partly in the Brussels picture is undoubtedly a
> > > Citroen, and it's the model that competed with the VW Beetle from the
> > > late 1940s into the '90s. It was known as the ugly duckling in some
> > > European countries. I saw many in Europe decades ago, and a few in North
> > > America. I don't know about duckling, but it was truly ugly. OTOH,
> > > Wikipedia says the design was Bauhaus-inspired, and framed some inspired
> > > engineering.
> >
> > I like the 2CV, but it's not my favourite old French car. Possibly
> > because it was such a hit with the brown rice/macrame/beard set of the
> > 1970s, and that put me off the car for life.
>
> My favourite is the Citroen DS. Two of my neighbours had these back in
> the 1960s, I think one of them still has, tucked away in his garage.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_DS>

Yes, that's one of my favourites too. What gorgeous-looking and
fascinating cars those were.
--
John

Heather

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Mar 27, 2013, 10:55:03 PM3/27/13

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On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:40:26 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>

wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 11:06:38 +1100, Heather <redbo...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:39:00 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>>wrote:
>>

>>>I don't know how this compares to the VW color, but many fire engines
>>>are now this color for greatest visibility day or night:
>>>http://macsystems.com/Nov19-2008.jpg
>>>
>>
>>At one stage our fire engines in Melbourne were changed to fluorescent
>>"lime green" for supposedly greater visibility but they soon changed
>>them back to the traditional red.
>
>
>Why?
>

They discovered that the lime green was not as visible as they had
originally thought.

--
Heather

Snidely

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Mar 28, 2013, 12:37:22 AM3/28/13

to

On Wednesday, Veronique responded:

> On Mar 26, 11:44ï¿œpm, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> N Jill Marsh explained on 3/26/2013 :

>>> They are cheaper, and harder to steal.
>>

>> The cheapness factor has largely disappeared, hasn't it? ï¿œParts and

>> labor still win, but volume and warehousing are losing.
>
> Of the cars I looked at, the automatic transmission added
> approximately $1,250.

Hmmm. I guess I didn't pay enough attention, although I've seen the
"shrinking market rising prices" comment in columns, if I am not
mistaken.

My car was cheap, relatively speaking, but it not only has a stick but
it was a base model. I miss power windows, but leaning across a small
car isn't _too_ bad.

/dps

--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean

Snidely

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Mar 28, 2013, 12:42:51 AM3/28/13

to

N Jill Marsh explained :

> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 23:44:29 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> N Jill Marsh explained on 3/26/2013 :
>>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:41:21 -0700, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What are your (and any of the others who insist on a manual
>>>> transmission) reasons for desiring a manual transmission?
>>>
>>> They are cheaper, and harder to steal.
>>
>> The cheapness factor has largely disappeared, hasn't it? Parts and
>> labor still win, but volume and warehousing are losing.
>
> The last time I purchased a car, there was still over a grand
> difference.

See my response to V. I am wrong now, but maybe because I'm just ahead
of the curve.

> I don't have an issue waiting for a car to show up, it's
> not like I'm only going to use the thing for a couple of weeks.
>
>> Harder to steal, yeah, for the unskilled thief, so they'll just pull
>> the wheels off and yank the motor, and leave the rest for you. Serious
>> thiefs? Won't even slow them down, unless you leave it where they can
>> see the neighbor's Porsche instead.
>
> Serious thieves don't steal tiny, cheap little stick shift cars, with
> rusty tire rims and a scary paint job. The neighbours Accord is far
> more appealing.
>
>> Fuel economy, as Howard (IIHMAR) said, is no longer an advantage
>> (beginning with 5-speed lockup automatics, and how does a mere mortal
>> compete with an 8-speed dual-clutch masterpiece?).
>
> My car uses about 40L to go about 700km, in the city, and I don't
> drive it much these days anyway, so fuel economy isn't a concern.
>
>> So that leaves us with the driving sensation.
>
> No, it doesn't, not for everyone, anyway. I don't get any kind of
> positive charge or feeling of control or enjoyment from driving a
> stick.

Sad. Just sad.

> They are a bit more a pain in traffic, but if I'm going to be
> in traffic I usually take public transit.

You're spoiled. Spoiled rotten.

/dps

--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.

Snidely

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Mar 28, 2013, 12:51:12 AM3/28/13

to

Just this Wednesday, rroger explained that ...

> On Mar 27, 2:39ï¿œpm, Les Albert <lalbe...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:03:50 -0700 (PDT), Veronique
>>> <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> On Mar 27, 12:06ï¿œam, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Veronique wrote on 3/26/2013 :

>>>>>> On Mar 26, 11:05ï¿œam, rroger <raust...@aol.com> wrote:

>>>>>>> On Mar 26, 12:29ï¿œpm, Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> It's my second yellow car (and my third car, and my first new car.)
>>>>>>>> The yellow was a non-negotiable as a new car purchase,
>>>>>>> Just out of curiosity, if there was ANY other reason(s) for yellow
>>>>>>> other than "because I like yellow", (or words to that effect), what
>>>>>>> were/was they/it?
>>>>>> Yellow cars have the best visibility (dark green cars have the worst).
>>>>>> I would have been happy to settle for lime green, hot pink, or pale
>>>>>> lavender, but apparently those are even harder to find.
>>>>> I thought safety orange was the best visibility.
>>>>> A long time ago, some magazine (probably Pop Sci) checked with traffic

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Mar 28, 2013, 2:24:04 AM3/28/13

to

Remember when bill van bragged outrageously? That was Wednesday:

The double-clutch transmission and paddle-shifters will kill the clutch
pedal. And a lot of sports cars are showing up with manual-automatics
if they don't have the DCT.

It's a grim world we live in.

/dps "Until I get my Porsche"

--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

Snidely

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Mar 28, 2013, 2:36:07 AM3/28/13

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On Wednesday, BillT...@invalid.com exclaimed wildly:

Yes, unusual. I use the same pronounciation I use for the front lid of
a car and the topmost piece of a parka, and that is very different from
both Food and Hud. I think the good folks at KMHD (you can get them at
kmhd.org, with maybe some Coltrane or Bill Evans ... but right now
looks to be Latin Jazz) I think those folks say it right, although I am
most familiar with the Wednesday crowd.