SDMB Soap Opera
Johnsbury1
Ed Zotti posts his reasons for banning Melin from Straight Dope Message Board,
which, it appears, is not without merit. What is interesting is the unabashed
soap opera that is played out every day, on every minute detail of post, by
every person, all the time, 24/7.I think it is just a matter of time before it
collapses in on itself from the shear weight of schlock drama.
What is sad is that now Melin is groveling for another bite at the apple so
they can do it all over again months from now. The mystery is, why is OpalCat
and StoryTyler not joining her in banishment? If they are going to be fair, or
at least give a passing nod to fairness, they would realize that they lend
NOTHING but disruption to that forum too.
[[Ed Zotti
Administrator
Posts: 203
Registered: Feb 99
posted 03-21-2000 04:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
I can see I'm going to have to explain this in numbing detail. Let's take it
from the top.
(1) The original incident arose from a misunderstanding. When the SDMB was down
due to the hacker, Melin posted a status report on misc.facts.straight-dope.
She based this in part on a friendly conversation she had with me via IM. (I
mention this lest you think I've been seething with hatred of Melin all this
time.) Some SDMB mods and others felt Melin was acting as though she were still
on staff, and a flame war erupted. One of the charges tossed around was that
Melin had visited an SD staff site without authorization. In fact Melin had
been invited to the site by another SDMB administrator, unbeknownst to the
others.
Asterbark, who was not on staff and whom most of us had never heard of,
wandered into the middle of this and posted a comment to the effect that
Melin's visit to the staff site showed she was untrustworthy. Melin, it's safe
to say, was outraged by Asterbark's charge (which, let me emphasize, was not
true). She concluded that I had sent out a staff memo about her and that
someone had leaked this to Asterbark--that, in effect, we had put Asterbark up
to it.
Melin was mistaken about this. I had written no memo. Asterbark had jumped to
conclusions based on posts she had read on MFSD.
Melin wrote a long letter to me and Asterbark threatening a lawsuit if she
didn't receive a public apology, posted by a certain time, that she could read
and approve ahead of time. Melin's letter has now been posted on Opal's site.
You're welcome to read it at http://fathom.org/cgi-bin/sdmb.pl?read=1288. It's
a remarkable piece of work. I'm convinced she was deadly serious.
(2) When we got Melin's threat we were concerned, to say the least. Melin's a
lawyer and seemed perfectly capable of following through on her threat. Her
rationale for including us in the suit was ludicrous, but that didn't matter.
It would cost us a lot of money--$5,000 was the figure mentioned here--to get
it thrown out. My bosses, after muttering about the SDMB being more trouble
than it was worth, told me to do what I had to do to get Melin to back off. I
wrote her a letter explaining the facts. She wrote back saying she was dropping
her demands with respect to the Chicago Reader (which owns the Straight Dope
site). I then mediated a public apology by Asterbark on MFSD, and posted an
explanation of my own there. I did this partly because I felt sorry for
Asterbark, who was naive and frightened, but also because I wanted the matter
resolved and all lawsuit threats dropped, lest we be drawn in at a later time.
Eventually this came to pass.
(3) Next we faced the question of what to do about Melin from there on out. I
argued that we should ban her immediately. I felt it was only a matter of time
before another incident occurred and she threatened another lawsuit. But I was
overruled by my bosses, who felt the SDMB rules were insufficiently clear about
our right to ban people. I was told to (a) rewrite the rules to clarify that we
reserved the right to exclude anyone at any time; (b) "don't ban Melin but
explain to her in a private communication that we cannot abide the absurd
possibility of being sued for having welcomed her as a guest on our boards, and
that we reserve the right to ban her in the future for any reason whatsoever;"
and (c) next time, give her the hook. (This was more colorfully phrased in the
original.) I did as instructed, adding at the end of my note to Melin, "We
expect you to cooperate with the board moderators and administrators and to
desist from making life difficult for us in any way."
(4) A short time later Melin began using the boldface sig line, "Voted Best
Moderator," later changed to"Voted Best Moderator - Emeritus." This drove the
real moderators up the wall. For users who didn't know what "emeritus" meant,
it falsely suggested she was a moderator, and for those who did, it falsely
suggested she had "retired" and was using this as an honorary title, when in
fact she had left her moderator position involuntarily. (For the record, she
got into a public dispute with another moderator and kept arguing after I
ordered her to stop, so I fired her.) In any case, the sig was irritating and
misleading to users, and I wrote Melin a note asking her to drop it. She
promptly changed her sig line to, "Sig line CENSORED."
It was the last straw. I was fed up. She was impossible, constantly played the
martyr, always had to get in a dig. It was clear to me that she'd never let up,
another flame war would erupt, she'd threaten to sue again, blah blah blah. So
I banned her. Delaying would just have prolonged the inevitable. The proximate
cause of her getting banned was the sig line. A minor matter? In itself, yeah.
But it shows the attitude we were dealing with. Make no mistake, the primary
reason was the lawsuit threat, and anyone who thinks that was minor has never
been on the receiving end of one.
I know a lot of people want us all to kiss and make up. Sorry, not possible. We
can't afford the risk. You can't operate a business with a customer who
threatens you with lawsuits, fights constantly with your staff, and thinks
she's helping you run the place. Please understand that the SDMB sucks up a lot
of resources - my time (yeah, I get paid for this), the tech staff's time, a
couple hardware upgrades, etc. Every time we see all the bitching and moaning
by people who obviously have no idea they're guests here, it makes us - and in
particular my bosses - wonder why we're knocking ourselves out for a bunch of
ingrates. The longer Melin stuck around and stirred up trouble, the more it
hastened the day when my bosses decided to hell with this.
Melin is better off on a Usenet newsgroup, where anything goes. Those who still
think she was wronged after reading this are invited to join her there. But
she's not coming back into this restaurant ever again.
JOHN
Glenn Rice
Tim Robinson
johns...@aol.com says...
>
> Ed Zotti posts his reasons for banning Melin from Straight Dope Message Board,
Precisely who in this newsgroup do you think gives a rat's ass about the
internal politics of what amounts to a newsgroup most of us can't get to?
--
Tim Robinson <timt...@ionet.net>
http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr
The two secrets to success: 1) Never tell all you know.
RM Mentock
> > Ed Zotti posts his reasons for banning Melin from Straight Dope Message Board,
>
> Precisely who in this newsgroup do you think gives a rat's ass about the
> internal politics of what amounts to a newsgroup most of us can't get to?
Actually, the Straight Dope Message Board is no longer
on AOL, and is maintained on the web by the Chicago Reader at
http://boards.straightdope.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi
Johnsbury1 did say he was going to take this to email.
I guess he means only if every body else does first.
--
RM Mentock
I'm up to my ears in music
http://sentient.home.mindspring.com/dan/
Helge Moulding
>I guess he means only if every body else does first.
OK, so where does that juvenile thing come from? You know,
where one is on the phone, and they've said "Good bye!" and
the other party did, too, and then they both hang on, saying,
"Hang up!" "You hang up, first!"
In Germany each phone call costs, and kids don't get to use
the phone without parental supervision. There certainly are
no pajama parties on the phone the way they have them here
in the USA, which means that when I got here this was a new
and almost completely incomprehensible phenomenon to me.
Does it happen anywhere else in the world? Does anyone know
how it got started? Does it actually happen in Real Life?
--
Helge Moulding
mailto:hmou...@excite.com Just another guy
http://hmoulding.cjb.net/ with a weird name
GrapeApe
>how it got started? Does it actually happen in Real Life?
I could hazard a guess, but I think I will let others speak up first.
Alphonse and Gaston never did grab the last pork chop on the plate.
Johnsbury1
>Who cares? this is alt.fan.cecil-adams, not SDMB. Give it a rest already.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Who cares? this is alt.fan.cecil-adams, not SDMB. Give it a rest already.
>
>
just pass it by, if it upsets you.
JOHN
Johnsbury1
>Board,
>
>Precisely who in this newsgroup do you think gives a rat's ass about the
>internal politics of what amounts to a newsgroup most of us can't get to?
>
>Tim Robinson <timt...@ionet.net>
>http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr
>The two secrets to success: 1) Never tell all you know.
>
Consider yourself luck if you can't, but you can, if you want. It is on the
internet.
JOHN
Johnsbury1
Ed Zotti posts his reasons for banning Melin from Straight Dope Message Board,
soap opera that is played out every day, on every minute detail of post, by
every person, all the time, 24/7.I think it is just a matter of time before it
collapses in on itself from the shear weight of schlock drama.
What is sad is that now Melin is groveling for another bite at the apple so
they can do it all over again months from now. The mystery is, why is OpalCat
and StoryTyler not joining her in banishment? If they are going to be fair, or
at least give a passing nod to fairness, they would realize that they lend
NOTHING but disruption to that forum too.
JOHN
Johnsbury1
[[Ed Zotti, who runs the SDMB for the Chicago Reader, posted today]]]
[Users are allowed more latitude of expression in the BBQ Pit than in other
forums on the Straight Dope Message Board. That doesn't mean anything goes. You
are free to disagree with other posters or with the administration of this
board in strong terms. You are not free to post gratuitous insults, obscene
taunts or other unprovoked personal abuse. Further instances of such behavior
will be deleted. *****Repeated violations in this or other threads may result
in your being excluded from the Straight Dope Message Board.*****]]
YOU VILL OBEY!
JOHN
Eric Dahlgren
>>they can do it all over again months from now. The mystery is, why is
>OpalCat
>>and StoryTyler not joining her in banishment? If they are going to be fair,
>>or
>>at least give a passing nod to fairness, they would realize that they lend
>>NOTHING but disruption to that forum too.
>>
>>
>>
>>JOHN
>>
>
>
>[[Ed Zotti, who runs the SDMB for the Chicago Reader, posted today]]]
>
>[Users are allowed more latitude of expression in the BBQ Pit than in other
>forums on the Straight Dope Message Board. That doesn't mean anything goes.
>You
>are free to disagree with other posters or with the administration of this
>board in strong terms. You are not free to post gratuitous insults, obscene
>taunts or other unprovoked personal abuse. Further instances of such behavior
>will be deleted. *****Repeated violations in this or other threads may result
>in your being excluded from the Straight Dope Message Board.*****]]
>
> YOU VILL OBEY!
>
>JOHN
>
Yes, because ***THEY*** own it. And, by the way, stop wasting bandwidth with
this nonsense.
Eric
"Where there is a will..there is probably a dead body close by."
AlanKngsly
local calls charged a toll in Europe? I keep hearing how before long, people
(I guess they mean Americans) will get to make free long distance calls, even
to other countries....but over there, they can't even call their next door
neighbor without paying by the minute? What gives?
Alan
Johnsbury1
It's the posters that make it, or unmake it.
JOHN
Johnsbury1
I think for the same reason they pay so much more in gasoline than we do,
although we are moving in that direction.
JOHN
RM Mentock
> It's the posters that make it, or unmake it.
Well, yeah. The contretemps over at the Straight Dope
Message Board involves the banning of the former
moderator of MPSIMS. MPSIMS is an acronym for "Mundane
Pointless Shit I Must Share", which was an ironic title
of a thread that was started on the old AOL board,
poking fun at certain posters. Instead of being shunned,
it was adopted enthusiastically, and achieved a life
of its own. When the AOL board shut down, MPSIMS
posters determined that afca would not welcome MPSIMS
posts, so they attempted to create a new big eight
group that would specify MPSIMS in its charter somehow.
Unfortunately, the proposal didn't fly, and MPSIMS was
deleted from the charter of misc.facts.straight-dope
before it was created. That, of course, doesn't stop
posters from posting MPSIMS. When the Chicago Reader set
up their web-based message board, as a successor to the
AOL board, they felt it was important to include MPSIMS
as a separate category of posts (as well as a BBQ Pit,
for flames, and a Great Debates, for, among other things,
religious debates and witnessing). They set up a system of
moderators empowered to move threads from one category
to another as they saw fit. Of course, we here at afca
exist happily without moderators, as do most (all?) alt
newsgroups, but many newsgroups are moderated.
MPSIMS certainly has the most posts over there [1]
but it is followed closely by the General Questions area,
with Great Debates a distant third. MPSIMS belies its
name--the posters have an intense emotional attachment to
it, and any attempts to moderate it are deeply resented.
One poster slit her wrists in protest after her MPSIMS
posts were moved from another area, photographed the slits,
and posted the binary to the board. The moderator quickly
deleted the photo. Actually, I'm only inferring that that
is what happened, since the photo was removed before I
saw it. Regardless, I don't think anyone would deny that
emotion runs high.
By keeping MPSIMS, Great Debates, Questions About the Board,
and flames out, the Comments on Cecil's Columns is pretty
lean and informative. It regularly draws first time posters
whose posts are contributions of expertise regarding the most
recent column, as well as posts concerning esoteric objections
to old columns. I recommend that portion of the board highly.
There is also an area called Comments on Mailbag Answers, which
has even less traffic, and similar quality.
--
RM Mentock
[1] http://boards.straightdope.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi
Glenn Rice
>
> >
> >Who cares? this is alt.fan.cecil-adams, not SDMB. Give it a rest already.
> >
> just pass it by, if it upsets you.
Some whiner complaining about something irrelevant doesn't "upset" me.
Take a hint, crybaby -- our interest in your "soap opera" is
nonexistent.
Amy Elizabeth Gleason
Do not feed the troll.
Bob Ward
>Okay, Helge, you brought up something which has long intrigued me. Why are
>local calls charged a toll in Europe? I keep hearing how before long, people
>(I guess they mean Americans) will get to make free long distance calls, even
>to other countries....but over there, they can't even call their next door
>neighbor without paying by the minute? What gives?
>
>Alan
They do it because they can, of course.
Johnsbury1
Do you see any down side to that format, as you describe, and do you think it
runs smoothly?
JOHN
Johnsbury1
you say, then this should be your last read, or response on this subject.
JOHN
Johnsbury1
JOHN
ja...@scripps.edu
alank...@aol.com (AlanKngsly) wrote:
> Okay, Helge, you brought up something which has long intrigued me. Why
are
> local calls charged a toll in Europe? I keep hearing how before long,
people
> (I guess they mean Americans) will get to make free long distance
calls, even
> to other countries....but over there, they can't even call their next
door
> neighbor without paying by the minute? What gives?
>
In California, you also get charged by the minute for local calls.
At least, to the extent I can understand my phone-bill, you do. The
charge is small, however, and there is a "grace amount" which they
credit you before you actually start paying. If I talked on the phone
a lot, I would use that up and have to start paying for local. But the
numbers on the page never add up to the total stated anyway, so who
knows what the Hell is actually going on.
(Long distance bills are worse, I payed over 7 times more for taxes and
fees than for calls I actually made. A lot of this money says it is
supposed to go to proved long distance service to "poor people". Oddly,
I know of no poor people who get this life-line service.)
Jeff
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Seanette Blaylock
You hang up first!":
>In California, you also get charged by the minute for local calls.
Not on my setup you don't. I have GTE. What company are you using?
--
Seanette Blaylock
"You attribute perfect rationality to the whole of humanity, which has
to be one of the most misguided assumptions ever." - Alan Krueger in NANAE
[make obvious correction to address to send e-mail]
E. Mark Ping
>
>In California, you also get charged by the minute for local calls.
>charge is small, however, and there is a "grace amount" which they
>credit you before you actually start paying. If I talked on the phone
>a lot, I would use that up and have to start paying for local. But the
>numbers on the page never add up to the total stated anyway, so who
>knows what the Hell is actually going on.
If you have the flat rate plan you aren't charged by the minute. You
can, however choose the metered rate plan which works like you
mention.
--
| "If hard data were the filtering criterion
Mark Ping | you could fit the entire contents of the
ema...@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU | Internet on a floppy disk."
| - Cecil Adams, The Straight Dope Tells All
Bob Ward
>In article <20000323054100...@ng-de1.aol.com>,
>alank...@aol.com (AlanKngsly) wrote:
>> Okay, Helge, you brought up something which has long intrigued me. Why
>are
>> local calls charged a toll in Europe? I keep hearing how before long,
>people
>> (I guess they mean Americans) will get to make free long distance
>calls, even
>> to other countries....but over there, they can't even call their next
>door
>> neighbor without paying by the minute? What gives?
>>
>
>
>In California, you also get charged by the minute for local calls.
>At least, to the extent I can understand my phone-bill, you do. The
>charge is small, however, and there is a "grace amount" which they
>credit you before you actually start paying. If I talked on the phone
>a lot, I would use that up and have to start paying for local. But the
>numbers on the page never add up to the total stated anyway, so who
>knows what the Hell is actually going on.
>
This is not true if you are served by GTE - they offer only unmeasured
local service. That may or may not be the case with PacBell or
others.
Rich Clancey
+ In article <20000322081740...@ng-fk1.aol.com>,
+ johns...@aol.com says...
+ >
+ > Ed Zotti posts his reasons for banning Melin from Straight Dope Message Board,
+ Precisely who in this newsgroup do you think gives a rat's ass about the
+ internal politics of what amounts to a newsgroup most of us can't get to?
Wouldn't get to if we could. What a dull story.
--
:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:
rich clancey r...@world.std.com rcla...@massart.edu
On an autumn evening one remembers more of childhood
than at any other time of year.
- Graham Greene -
:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:
Bob Ward
>>
>>On 23 Mar 2000 10:41:00 GMT, alank...@aol.com (AlanKngsly) wrote:
>>
>>>Okay, Helge, you brought up something which has long intrigued me. Why are
>>>local calls charged a toll in Europe? I keep hearing how before long,
>>people
>>>(I guess they mean Americans) will get to make free long distance calls,
>>even
>>>to other countries....but over there, they can't even call their next door
>>>neighbor without paying by the minute? What gives?
>>>
>>>Alan
>>
>>
>>They do it because they can, of course.
>>
>>
>Does that make it right?
>JOHN
Why not? You still post here, don't you?
No, it doesn't make it right, but it seems that there's nothing anyone
can do about it in either case, except here, we at least get to call
you a fuckwit on as daily basis, so it's not quite as bad,
RM Mentock
> Do you see any down side to that format, as you describe, and do you think it
> runs smoothly?
Moderated newsgroups have their place. Less freedom of
expression, but you don't have to wade through all the
bullshit to get to the good parts.
A moderator (not SDMB, but in general) will delete some
posts that the poster thought were appropriate (obviously).
But, for those groups, that is the moderator's job.
The SDMB attempted to have the best of both worlds:
one place where posters talked about straight
dope columns, and other places where posters were
freer and less restricted. Their moderators were to
make sure that posts were kept in the "right" place.
Works, in theory.
--
RM Mentock
Big Iron5
>+ > Ed Zotti posts his reasons for banning Melin from Straight Dope Message
>Board,
>
>+ Precisely who in this newsgroup do you think gives a rat's ass about the
>+ internal politics of what amounts to a newsgroup most of us can't get to?
>
>
> Wouldn't get to if we could. What a dull story.
Another afca moment, ironically.
Jeff Janes
: ja...@scripps.edu had some very interesting things to say about "Re:
: You hang up first!":
: >In California, you also get charged by the minute for local calls.
: Not on my setup you don't. I have GTE. What company are you using?
I have PacHell. There is probably a more expensive plan with unmetered
local service, but it's not worth it for me. Of course, then you are paying
for your usage, but in a single quanta (do I want metered service, or
unmetered service) rather than linearly.
I find all this type of stuff rather amusing. When I was renting
apartments, the rep was proud to point out that we didn't have to
pay for water, unlike many other complexes. I can see how that
is important to note (Well, the other place is 10 bucks cheaper a month,
but the water bill might be $15 per...), but I was tempted to say "So,
you have to charge me more rent so that I can subsidize the guy next
door who takes 3 hour showers twice a day?"
Jeff
--
Jeff Janes
email: ja...@scripps.edu
AlanKngsly
utilities included. There is a certain psychological component, a kind of
"sticker shock" if you will, that prevents landlords from truly charging the
cost of the utilities plus the rent for a comparable place without utilities
included. I think a lot of landlords know this and would prefer to let the
tenants pay their own utils if possible, but their buildings use only one
furnace, water meter, etc., making this impractical.
Alan
Alan Hamilton
I have to wonder about the overall efficiency, too. Is the cost of
running an apartment-sized A/C unit going to be less or more than my
share of running a big central plant A/C?
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com
AlanKngsly
must be lost in transporting the cold air through ducts, one would think). But
I seriously have to wonder about centrally heated buildings, considering how
often they seem to be too hot, causing tenants to leave open their windows on
frigid winter days.
Alan
Perry Farmer
->
-> >My experience is that you really are generally better off taking the place with
-> >utilities included. There is a certain psychological component, a kind of
-> >"sticker shock" if you will, that prevents landlords from truly charging the
-> >cost of the utilities plus the rent for a comparable place without utilities
-> >included. I think a lot of landlords know this and would prefer to let the
-> >tenants pay their own utils if possible, but their buildings use only one
-> >furnace, water meter, etc., making this impractical.
->
-> I have to wonder about the overall efficiency, too. Is the cost of
-> running an apartment-sized A/C unit going to be less or more than my
-> share of running a big central plant A/C?
The problem with this is the assumption would have to be made that all
shares would be equal, that the guy that has his apartment set like an icebox is
not being subsidized by the guy who doesn't.
In a hot climate, take the downstairs apartment and get the benefit from
the earth and the guy upstairs. In a cold climate take the upstairs apartment
to take the benefit of the guy downstairs, partially offset by the roof.
-> / * / Alan Hamilton
Perry
Bob Ward
wrote:
>On 25 Mar 2000 12:19:49 GMT, alank...@aol.com (AlanKngsly) wrote:
>
>>My experience is that you really are generally better off taking the place with
>>utilities included. There is a certain psychological component, a kind of
>>"sticker shock" if you will, that prevents landlords from truly charging the
>>cost of the utilities plus the rent for a comparable place without utilities
>>included. I think a lot of landlords know this and would prefer to let the
>>tenants pay their own utils if possible, but their buildings use only one
>>furnace, water meter, etc., making this impractical.
>
>I have to wonder about the overall efficiency, too. Is the cost of
>running an apartment-sized A/C unit going to be less or more than my
>share of running a big central plant A/C?
Having one central unit is fine so long as you can accept the
temperature that the building engineer chooses to maintain. If you
like it hotter or cooler, an individual unit is preferable. Also,
depending on the vacancy factor, it might be more efficient to
condition the air only in the units that are currently occupied.
Alan Hamilton
>Having one central unit is fine so long as you can accept the
>temperature that the building engineer chooses to maintain. If you
>like it hotter or cooler, an individual unit is preferable. Also,
>depending on the vacancy factor, it might be more efficient to
>condition the air only in the units that are currently occupied.
This can be done with a central system. My old apartment was set up
this way. A central plant produced hot or cold water (depending on
the season). Each unit had a heat exchanger and thermostat-controlled
fan. Shut off the fan, and you don't get any heat/cold. The only
catch was you couldn't pick heat or A/C yourself, which was
occasionally a problem in the spring and fall, for sudden hot days or
cold snaps.
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
Perry Farmer
-> wrote:
-> >On 25 Mar 2000 12:19:49 GMT, alank...@aol.com (AlanKngsly) wrote:
-> >
-> >>My experience is that you really are generally better off taking th
-> >>utilities included. There is a certain psychological component, a
-> >>"sticker shock" if you will, that prevents landlords from truly cha
-> >>cost of the utilities plus the rent for a comparable place without
-> >>included. I think a lot of landlords know this and would prefer to
-> >>tenants pay their own utils if possible, but their buildings use on
-> >>furnace, water meter, etc., making this impractical.
-> >
-> >I have to wonder about the overall efficiency, too. Is the cost of
-> >running an apartment-sized A/C unit going to be less or more than my
-> >share of running a big central plant A/C?
-> Having one central unit is fine so long as you can accept the
-> temperature that the building engineer chooses to maintain. If you
-> like it hotter or cooler, an individual unit is preferable. Also,
-> depending on the vacancy factor, it might be more efficient to
-> condition the air only in the units that are currently occupied.
You can easily accommodate zone heating/cooling in central hivac units.
One of the simplest methods in the case of doing this in a typical home
is thermostatically controlled vents. In a home however the minimum
airflow requirements often dictate the use of bypass ducts and so on. In
a commercial application the greater the use, the less need to insure
minimum airflow with these schemes, that is if you are using a ducted
system.
In large applications what you are often using is a chiller arraignment.
In this setting you use refrigeration units along with heating units to
control the temperature of a medium such as water. The benefits here can
be seen in lack of need for the duct work, a substantial savings in size
needed for the routing. In fact you can tap into what each apartment
already requires.
Perry
ra...@westnet.poe.com
>>I have to wonder about the overall efficiency, too. Is the cost of
> Having one central unit is fine so long as you can accept the
> temperature that the building engineer chooses to maintain. If you
> like it hotter or cooler, an individual unit is preferable. Also,
> depending on the vacancy factor, it might be more efficient to
> condition the air only in the units that are currently occupied.
Besides, if you live downstairs from someone with little heat tolerance,
and you have a high heat tolerance, you can shunt your share of the
cooling to your upstairs neighbor: The floors between apartments are
seldom insulated...
Managed to keep cool an entire summer by only switching on the A/C a few
times: let my annoying penny-pitching at 2am neighbor suck up all the
heat.
Pappy John *yeek*
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
GrapeApe
>catch was you couldn't pick heat or A/C yourself, which was
>occasionally a problem in the spring and fall, for sudden hot days or
>cold snaps.
>--
This is when ventilation grates and covers, and door and windows come in handy.
Or sweaters or nudity.