White vs. Orange Cheddar
Paul Ciszek
a sort of arms race; slightly yellowish cheese was considered better
than paler cheese (the difference being cows eating stored fodder vs.
grazing), so dairies added annatto to yellow up the cheese. So of course
other dairies had to out-yellow them and added more annatto, until you
get the bright orange powder that Americans consider to be "cheese flavor".
Is annatto the only difference between white and orange cheddar? I ask
because the source I heard this from also claimed that annatto changes
the color but not the flavor of the cheese. The two definately do NOT
taste the same to me; a few white cheddars taste good to me, but I do
not like orange cheddar.
Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just two
more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
--
Please reply to: | "One of the hardest parts of my job is to
pciszek at panix dot com | connect Iraq to the War on Terror."
Autoreply is disabled | -- G. W. Bush, 9/7/2006
Mary
>
> Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just two
> more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
>
No, I can tell the difference. They aren't too dissimilar from mild
cheddar, but if you have a real sharp Cheddar cheese, it's not at all
like Monterey Jack or (bleh) American.
Mary
Lee Ayrton
> I heard once that American cheddar cheeses are orange as the result of
> a sort of arms race; slightly yellowish cheese was considered better
> than paler cheese (the difference being cows eating stored fodder vs.
> grazing), so dairies added annatto to yellow up the cheese. So of course
> other dairies had to out-yellow them and added more annatto, until you
> get the bright orange powder that Americans consider to be "cheese flavor".
Folks who work with young kids will likely tell you that kids won't eat
cheese that isn't orange. It is now the cultural norm.
As near as I can tell from an on-line search, the addition of
yellow/orange coloring agents to cheddared (cheddaring is the process)
cheese is traditional and of unknown origin. The likely reason put
forward is that it would set cheddar apart from other hard cheeses in
shops.
> Is annatto the only difference between white and orange cheddar? I ask
> because the source I heard this from also claimed that annatto changes
> the color but not the flavor of the cheese. The two definately do NOT
> taste the same to me; a few white cheddars taste good to me, but I do
> not like orange cheddar.
I suspect that the taste difference reflects the differences in process,
aging and origin, not the addition of annatto. But I could be wrong.
> Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just two
> more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
"American" cheese is a processed cheese product invented in 1915 by Kraft.
It recovers proteins and other solids from the byproducts of cheese making
by chemically treating the whey. Real cheese makers at the time tried to
get the government to label it "embalmed cheese".
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/05/Business/Cheese__please.shtml
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.10/start.html?pg=4
--
"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New Jersey,
that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been underestimated."
Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.
Paul Ciszek
In article <B8sQi.133389$Xa3.132419@attbi_s22>,
Sure, they taste different from *sharp* cheddar, I just meant that
cheese made in America seldom gets very far from the "cheddar" corner
of cheesespace.
--
Please reply to: | "If more of us valued food and cheer and song
pciszek at panix dot com | above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."
Autoreply is disabled | --Thorin Oakenshield
Mary
>
> Sure, they taste different from *sharp* cheddar, I just meant that
> cheese made in America seldom gets very far from the "cheddar" corner
> of cheesespace.
>
But there are lots of different cheeses made in the US. Even aside from
common ones like munster and gouda and parmesan, there are artisan
cheeses, goat and sheep cheese, blue cheese, loads and loads of
different cheeses.
Mostly about a thousand percent better than what's called "American"
cheese, too.
Mary
Mikko Peltoniemi
> But there are lots of different cheeses made in the US. Even aside from
> common ones like munster and gouda and parmesan, there are artisan
> cheeses, goat and sheep cheese, blue cheese, loads and loads of
> different cheeses.
If I remember correctly in the US the FDA requires milk to be
pasteurized, even when it's used for cheese. At least if it's not
aged for several months. But this unfortunately affects the flavor of
the cheese.
> Mostly about a thousand percent better than what's called "American"
> cheese, too.
And especially compared to "Cheese Product"...
Mr C
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007, Paul Ciszek wrote:
> > I heard once that American cheddar cheeses are orange as the result of
> > a sort of arms race; slightly yellowish cheese was considered better
> > than paler cheese (the difference being cows eating stored fodder vs.
> > grazing), so dairies added annatto to yellow up the cheese. So of course
> > other dairies had to out-yellow them and added more annatto, until you
> > get the bright orange powder that Americans consider to be "cheese flavor".
>
> Folks who work with young kids will likely tell you that kids won't eat
> cheese that isn't orange. It is now the cultural norm.
>
Except it ain't so. The US produces more mozzarella (a white cheese)
than any other variety, at least according to the USDA cited here:
http://www.wisdairy.com/Upload/statistics/us_cheese_production_variety_2006.jpg
Not much more, but more.
My favorite cheese is stilton, a variety of blue made only in
England.
Mr C
Mary
> Mary wrote:
>
>> But there are lots of different cheeses made in the US. Even aside
>> from common ones like munster and gouda and parmesan, there are
>> artisan cheeses, goat and sheep cheese, blue cheese, loads and loads
>> of different cheeses.
>
> If I remember correctly in the US the FDA requires milk to be
> pasteurized, even when it's used for cheese. At least if it's not
> aged for several months. But this unfortunately affects the flavor of
> the cheese.
No, I don't think so. There are a lot more restrictions on raw milk and
raw milk cheeses, but it can be obtained. Online, even.
Mary
art...@yahoo.com
> In article <B8sQi.133389$Xa3.132419@attbi_s22>,
>
> >Paul Ciszek wrote:
>
> >> Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just two
> >> more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
>
> >No, I can tell the difference. They aren't too dissimilar from mild
> >cheddar, but if you have a real sharp Cheddar cheese, it's not at all
> >like Monterey Jack or (bleh) American.
>
> Sure, they taste different from *sharp* cheddar, I just meant that
> cheese made in America seldom gets very far from the "cheddar" corner
> of cheesespace.
Cheesepace, the final frontier. To boldly Gouda where man has never
gone before.
Or perhaps cheesespace just refers to the holes in Swiss.
Mikko Peltoniemi
> No, I don't think so. There are a lot more restrictions on raw milk and
> raw milk cheeses, but it can be obtained. Online, even.
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2004/504_milk.html
Looks like 60 days is the cutoff time.
Paul Ciszek
In article <1192393625....@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Mr C <cams...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Except it ain't so. The US produces more mozzarella (a white cheese)
>than any other variety, at least according to the USDA cited here:
>http://www.wisdairy.com/Upload/statistics/us_cheese_production_variety_2006.jpg
>Not much more, but more.
But what is American "mozzarella", really? I mean, it's not made from
the milk of some kind of water buffalo, so it's not real mozzarella.
I seem to recall something about American-made swiss cheese being, in
fact, some other category of cheese with holes in it. I think some of
the "swiss" sold in the US is in fact "cheese food".
Bill Turlock
There's a little nook in the door of my fridge fos that.
Mary
For the cheese. The milk itself appears to be more of a
state-controlled thing.
I don't have a lot of personal experience with cheeses made from raw
milk - are some of them better aged? Beyond 60 days, I mean.
Mary
Opus the Penguin
I suspect that's due to the popularity of pizza.
--
Opus the Penguin
Cats and "acts normally" are a nearly tangential intersection on a VERY enlarged Venn diagram. - Robert Crowe
bill van
"art...@yahoo.com" <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Edam you, arty! That's a Munstrous pun.
--
bill
remove my country for e-mail
Mr C
> In article <1192393625.394114.46...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Mr C <camsoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Except it ain't so. The US produces more mozzarella (a white cheese)
> >than any other variety, at least according to the USDA cited here:
> >Not much more, but more.
>
> But what is American "mozzarella", really? I mean, it's not made from
> the milk of some kind of water buffalo, so it's not real mozzarella.
>
milk, but the majority, even in Italy, is cow's milk.
> I seem to recall something about American-made swiss cheese being, in
> fact, some other category of cheese with holes in it. I think some of
> the "swiss" sold in the US is in fact "cheese food".
>
Swiss cheese includes Emmenthaler (what we usually think of, the kind
with holes in it), Gruyere (which doesn't have holes) and others--wiki
says 450 varieties. Jarlsburg has holes, but is from Norway.
There aren't any cheese shops around here but the giant box Publix has
a decent selection of imported cheeses.
Venezuelan beaver cheese?
Not today, sir, no.
Mr C
Mr C
wrote:
> Mr C (camsoc...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > Except it ain't so. The US produces more mozzarella (a white
> > cheese) than any other variety, at least according to the USDA
> > cited here:
> > Not much more, but more.
>
> I suspect that's due to the popularity of pizza.
>
Mr C
art...@yahoo.com
> In article <1192394239.906690.5...@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
I'm in Guyre straits.
art...@yahoo.com
So you're another proponent of string theory?
bill van
"art...@yahoo.com" <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 14, 5:33 pm, bill van <bill...@shawcanada.ca> wrote:
> > In article <1192394239.906690.5...@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> > "art...@yahoo.com" <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 14, 4:00 pm, nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
> > > > In article <B8sQi.133389$Xa3.132419@attbi_s22>,
> >
> > > > Mary <mrfeath...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > >Paul Ciszek wrote:
> >
> > > > >> Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just
> > > > >> two
> > > > >> more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
> >
> > > > >No, I can tell the difference. They aren't too dissimilar from mild
> > > > >cheddar, but if you have a real sharp Cheddar cheese, it's not at all
> > > > >like Monterey Jack or (bleh) American.
> >
> > > > Sure, they taste different from *sharp* cheddar, I just meant that
> > > > cheese made in America seldom gets very far from the "cheddar" corner
> > > > of cheesespace.
> >
> > > Cheesepace, the final frontier. To boldly Gouda where man has never
> > > gone before.
> >
> > Edam you, arty! That's a Munstrous pun.
>
> I'm in Guyre straits.
La Vache Qui Rit is frowning.
DT
>Venezuelan beaver cheese?
Beaver cheese is a bit of a stretch, but the eskimos have over 100 types of
whale milk cheese.
--
Dennis
Blinky the Shark
Oh queso that's probably not a good thing.
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org
Mr C
> >Venezuelan beaver cheese?
>
> Beaver cheese is a bit of a stretch,
Not stretch, sketch. As in Monty Python's cheese shop. Sketch.
> but the eskimos have over 100 types of
> whale milk cheese.
>
Or is that 100 different *words* for whale's milk cheese ...
Mr C
bill van
It's just something I ran up the flagpole to see who Port-Saluts.
Veronique
I've had fabulous raw milk cheddars that I obtained from Trader Joe's.
I was under the impression that raw milk was pretty strictly regulated
but cheese not as much since it undergoes an amount of processing and
aging anyway (if we're talking about cheddars, anyway.)
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Blinky the Shark
Well, just coolea jets and see what happens.
Dana Carpender
Mikko Peltoniemi wrote:
> Mary wrote:
>
>> But there are lots of different cheeses made in the US. Even aside
>> from common ones like munster and gouda and parmesan, there are
>> artisan cheeses, goat and sheep cheese, blue cheese, loads and loads
>> of different cheeses.
>
>
> If I remember correctly in the US the FDA requires milk to be
> pasteurized, even when it's used for cheese. At least if it's not
> aged for several months. But this unfortunately affects the flavor of
> the cheese.
I can get raw milk cheese here in Bloomington, and it doesn't even
require buying a cow share or anything.
Dana
Pushmi-Pullyu
> I heard once that American cheddar cheeses are orange as the result of
> a sort of arms race; slightly yellowish cheese was considered better
> than paler cheese (the difference being cows eating stored fodder vs.
> grazing), so dairies added annatto to yellow up the cheese. So of course
> other dairies had to out-yellow them and added more annatto, until you
> get the bright orange powder that Americans consider to be "cheese flavor".
>
> because the source I heard this from also claimed that annatto changes
> the color but not the flavor of the cheese. The two definately do NOT
> taste the same to me; a few white cheddars taste good to me, but I do
> not like orange cheddar.
>
> more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
This is a totally great question!
I can absolutely tell the difference between white and orange cheddar,
but have no idea why they differ. Others have been puzzled by my
pickiness in this regard, and have even implied that I'm imagining the
difference... but to my taste it's like night and day. Well, more like
late afternooon and early evening... but they're really different!
I never buy orange cheddar, unless I'm desperate, but just bought 2
pounds of white.
Yum!
Is it the annatto?
That's the only obvious difference in the listed ingredients...
But maybe they secretly add bad things to the orange version.
P
Veronique
> I heard once that American cheddar cheeses are orange as the result of
> a sort of arms race; slightly yellowish cheese was considered better
> than paler cheese (the difference being cows eating stored fodder vs.
> grazing), so dairies added annatto to yellow up the cheese. So of course
> other dairies had to out-yellow them and added more annatto, until you
> get the bright orange powder that Americans consider to be "cheese flavor".
>
> Is annatto the only difference between white and orange cheddar? I ask
> because the source I heard this from also claimed that annatto changes
> the color but not the flavor of the cheese. The two definately do NOT
> taste the same to me; a few white cheddars taste good to me, but I do
> not like orange cheddar.
>
> Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just two
> more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
In Britain, I had the choice of a sandwich made with "Red Leiscester"
cheese, which was analogous to longhorn (very mild) orange cheddar in
America. It was definitely orange, as our supermarket cheddars are
here. And I concur with other posters that Monterey Jack is very
definitely Not Cheddar (although quite good in its own right.) (The
less said about American Pasturized-Process Cheese Food, the better.)
Oregon, Wisconsin, and Vermont are producers of splendid American
cheddars, with aging (I've had a 10 year old aged cheddar from Oregon;
interesting. I prefer something not quite as aged.)
The Atlantic Monthly's 150th Anniversary issue has an article on the
greatness and coming of age (no pun intended) of American Cheddar
Cheese. They named six outstanding cheese shops to purchase top-notch
cheddar cheese:
Cambridge, Massachusetts http://www.formaggiokitchen.com
New York City, New York http://www.artisanalcheese.com
Ann Arbor, Michigan http://www.zingermans.com
Beverly Hills, California http://www.cheesestorebh.com
Berkeley, California http://cheeseboardcollective.coop
V.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200711/cheese.
A cult destination in London has revolutionized cheesemaking, winning
converts as far afield as Vermont.
by Corby Kummer
The Art of Aging Well
Great cheese is always a collaboration. So I thought at the opening-
night tasting at the annual conference of the American Cheese Society
in Burlington, Vermont. In 1996, Allison Hooper, the society's
president, whose Vermont Butter & Cheese makes famous crème fraîche
and marvelous butter, called Vermont the Napa Valley of cheese." At
the time, it was an outlandish claim: When she first set up shop, as
she recounts in her introduction to the new Atlas of American Artisan
Cheese, "if it wasn't cheddar, it wasn't a business." Now it is hard
to dispute.
Ten years ago at an American Cheese Society conference in Madison,
Wisconsin, the feeling was intimate, and many of the cheesemakers
looked like the ex-hippies they proudly were. This year the sessions
on making and marketing cheeses, held in ballrooms at a Sheraton
conference center, were overflowing with people looking more like well-
heeled retirees who thought cheese might be easier to get into than
wine.
Conference attendees nearly filled the stupendously large and equally
beautiful building where the opening-night tasting was held: the
Shelburne Farms breeding barn, for nearly 50 years the largest open-
span timber structure in America (it was built in 1891 with Vanderbilt
money). The enlightened agricultural center created by the family in
order to keep the estate whole produces a highly regarded cheddar. I
was struck by the quality of most of the cheeses being sampled, all of
them from Vermont, and was particularly taken with three aged goat
cheeses from Twig Farm that I, a dedicated goat-avoider, couldn't stop
eating.
The story of the attractive young couple that makes them, Michael and
Emily Lee, is par for the Vermont course. They met at Hampshire
College as art students; after several years as a bike messenger,
Michael got a job at Formaggio Kitchen, in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
and Emily got one with an international publisher. Three years ago,
they decided to buy a farm in Vermont and make cheese.
Ihsan and Valerie Gurdal, the owners, were among the first American
cheesemongers to install a ripening cave (actually, a humidified room
in the basement), and they encouraged and guided the Lees at every
step. At Formaggio, Michael had come to understand the central role
that thoughtful aging plays in bringing cheeses to their fullest
expression; today Twig Farm's aging makes the difference between a
perfectly good cheese and an exceptional one.
The cheeses I tasted in the awe-inspiring barn crystallized my
thoughts on what makes cheese become great: constant communication
between cheesemaker and cheesemonger, and very careful attention to
affinage, the art of tending cheese as it ages. I came to the
conference with the taste of a lovely new English cheese fresh in my
mind. It was the result of just that kind of collaboration.
Borough Market is the thriving heart of the food scene in London, a
city that has taken to the buy-local mantra with an enthusiasm rivaled
only by that of-well, Vermont. Cheese lovers board the Tube for London
Bridge to visit the large headquarters of Neal's Yard Dairy-a mecca,
even if its cheeses have long been sold at other shops. Whole Foods,
which sells them too, has begun building showplace cheese-aging rooms-
some under the guidance of Neal's Yard staff, notably at its long-
anticipated first United Kingdom store, in Kensington.
Affinage was crucial to the cheese that captured my imagination:
Ogleshield, made in Somerset by the Montgomery family, renowned for
its cheddar. The milk for my new discovery came from Jersey cows,
which the family keeps alongside its Friesians, the classic cheddar
cow. They had never used it for cheese. Jersey milk is unequalled for
clotted cream, a Somerset speciality, and the cows are an amiable
breed. But the milk is much less suited to cheesemaking: The large
fat globules, marvelous in cream, deter proper setting, and the excess
fat can detract from the desired texture in a hard, matured cheese.
At first Jamie Montgomery, the re- nowned cheesemaker in the current
generation, made a Jersey cheese that Randolph Hodgson, the owner of
Neal's Yard, nicknamed Montgomery's Lite-a blander, fattier version of
the cheddar, which is famous for keeping its tang and deep flavors in
exquisite equipoise. (Montgomery called it "Shield," for a shield
found on the farm under a hill some believe to have been the original
Camelot; he had the motif stamped at the bottom of wooden molds.) It
struck Hodgson as too mild and too hard.
The Neal's Yard cheese whizzes went to work. Hodgson and William Ogle
thorpe, the master affineur of Neal's Yard, relentlessly think of ways
to improve even already-great cheeses, like Montgomery cheddar.
Hodgson regularly visits Somerset and selects his favorite wheels to
bring back to the Arches, an aging cave he built under train tracks
about a mile down the railway line from Borough Market.
Better to go soft, the team decided. Oglethorpe thought of raclette, a
mountain cheese famous in Switzerland and France but almost unknown in
England. Raclette is unctuous and pliable where cheddar is dry and
crumbly. It seemed far better suited to Jersey milk. And introducing
England's first artisan raclette might be just the way to celebrate
Neal's Yard's 25th anniversary, which was coming up.
Swiss friends brought Oglethorpe a raclette machine (he collects
cheesemaking equipment on the side)-a grill-rotisserie that
continually melts the surface of a half-wheel of cheese. The oozing
cheese is scraped over boiled potatoes and sometimes smoked ham
(racler means "to scrape"). In the French Alps the dish is a cult, a
street and country- fair food almost as popular as crêpes. Making it
could be a jolly activity that would give market-goers some lively fun
and be a nice sideline too.
Oglethorpe hauled out the heavy artillery-resalting the Shield wheels,
massaging them regularly, letting them sit for weeks in an unusually
moist room. Jamie Montgomery took the hint. He decided to set aside a
room just for aging, drawing inspiration from two Wisconsin cheese
makers he had recently visited: Willi Lehner, of Bleu Mont Dairy, who
built his own cave, and Mike Gingrich, of Uplands Cheese, a maker of
washed Goudas. He got hands-on advice from Marcel Petite, a renowned
French affineur who sells Comté to Neal's Yard. (Comté is my new
candidate to vie with Parmigiano-Reggiano as the world's greatest
cheese; I've come late to the club, which seems to include every
important cheese expert.) Petite pointed out that Montgomery's
ventilation needed to change. The goal in an aging room, he said, is
to get moisture into the cheese, not into the air; temperature and
ventilation must go hand in hand with simple humidification. The
collaboration between maker and affineur continued with such intensity
that the cheese took on a new name to reflect it: Ogleshield.
England's own raclette has caught on with customers-but only very
special friends get any to sell. In the United States, that mostly
means Zingerman's, in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which has a decades-old
collaboration and exchange program with Neal's Yard. It is also where
the American-born David Lockwood, a partner and manager at Neal's Yard
and the majordomo and co-owner of the raclette stand, began his
career. For now, almost all the 40 wheels Montgomery can make in a
month go straight to the raclette stand in London that Lockwood and
Oglethorpe established as a separate business.
The lines start early on Saturdays, when just passing through the
aisles of Borough Market is a challenge. Everything about the raclette
stand is good fun and hard work: washing and boiling some 175 pounds
of potatoes, manning the heater, avoiding burns from dripping cheese.
Lockwood, an amiable fellow, and Oglethorpe, a passionate eccentric
who was raised in Zambia, cheerfully and sweatily do most of the work.
Ogleshield comes into its glossy glory when it is melted, and it makes
a marvelous bubbly glaze for anything gratinéed-potatoes, of course,
but it would be ideal too for mac and cheese, the comfort dish to
which whole books have lately been devoted.
Even more glorious is the Oglethorpe grilled-cheese sandwich, made
with grated Montgomery cheddar heaped between slices of Poilâne bread,
the French country bread that sets the international standard, along
with five types of onion and a bit of garlic. I took one big bite and
the sandwich immediately went onto my list of best things I've ever
had.
The taste of that stellar sandwich fresh in my mind, I found aged
Vermont cheddars at the conference to make it with, including
Shelburne's own. I found, too, the only American artisan raclette,
made by the Leelanau Cheese Company of Suttons Bay, Michigan, an area
so scenic (as any visitor to Traverse City knows) that most of what it
produces is sold to tourists and locals who visit its shop. John and
Anne Hoyt, he from Detroit and she from a farm in France, met when
John was working with a Swiss mountain cheese- maker. He learned
techniques for the only cheese made there-raclette. Eleven years ago,
the Hoyts started producing their own aged raclette. This year, it won
the cheese society's grand prize. Leelanau Raclette is very good. So
is Ogleshield. I wanted to take a wedge of each one home to
(literally) toast the results of great transatlantic collaborations.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Blinky the Shark
> I can get raw milk cheese here in Bloomington, and it doesn't even
> require buying a cow share or anything.
Is that something like a cowdominium?
Boron Elgar
<veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The Atlantic Monthly's 150th Anniversary issue has an article on the
>greatness and coming of age (no pun intended) of American Cheddar
>Cheese. They named six outstanding cheese shops to purchase top-notch
>cheddar cheese:
>
>New York City, New York http://www.artisanalcheese.com
I love this place. They also have a restaurant that is terrific.
>
>
>Ann Arbor, Michigan http://www.zingermans.com
My cousin is one of the two owners.
>
Boron
Veronique
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:50:09 -0000, Veronique
>
> >The Atlantic Monthly's 150th Anniversary issue has an article on the
> >greatness and coming of age (no pun intended) of American Cheddar
> >Cheese. They named six outstanding cheese shops to purchase top-notch
> >cheddar cheese:
>
> >New York City, New York http://www.artisanalcheese.com
>
> I love this place. They also have a restaurant that is terrific.
>
>
>
> >Ann Arbor, Michigan http://www.zingermans.com
>
> My cousin is one of the two owners.
That...is impressive. I've been the The Cheese Board in Berkeley,
which is astounding (and cheese heaven too!)
Boron Elgar
I grew up in a household where cheese meant Velveeta, cream, or
cottage. I hated cheese and wouldn't even eat pizza.
As a young adult, I traveled a lot. At a small restaurant in
Cabourg, France, the last course of a meal was a cheese tray, brought
to the table on a large wicker basket with each variety of cheese
beautifully displayed on a grape leaf. It suddenly occurred to me that
I needed to broaden my horizons and I decided to become a much more
adventurous eater, and include cheese. I have never regretted the
decision.
Travel introduces me to so many unusual an interesting foods that had
I remained at home, I never would have dared try. I taught me a lot
about ingredients, spices and herbs, different preparation techniques
and also helped me to understand the cultures I visited.
Boron
Bill Turlock
>
> Dana Carpender wrote:
>
> > I can get raw milk cheese here in Bloomington, and it doesn't even
> > require buying a cow share or anything.
>
> Is that something like a cowdominium?
>
No, I think they beat their boards into cowshares.
chris greville
"Mary" <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:B8sQi.133389$Xa3.132419@attbi_s22...
> Paul Ciszek wrote:
>>
>> Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just two
>> more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
>>
>
> cheddar, but if you have a real sharp Cheddar cheese, it's not at all like
> Monterey Jack or (bleh) American.
>
So your saying Americans are tasteless?
Greg Goss
>
>In article <1192393625....@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>Mr C <cams...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Except it ain't so. The US produces more mozzarella (a white cheese)
>>than any other variety, at least according to the USDA cited here:
>>http://www.wisdairy.com/Upload/statistics/us_cheese_production_variety_2006.jpg
>>Not much more, but more.
>
>But what is American "mozzarella", really? I mean, it's not made from
>the milk of some kind of water buffalo, so it's not real mozzarella.
It was cited to disprove the "cheese must be dark orange" claim.
Whether or not a buffalo was involved, it does disprove the orange
claim.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Joseph Nebus
No, just that they should be cooked with soy sauce.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mary
<chrisgrevi...@nooospam.hotmail.co> wrote:
> "Mary" <mrfeath...@aol.com> wrote in message
Just the cheese, Mr. Greville. Just the cheese.
Mary
Mary
> "chris greville" <chrisgrevi...@nooospam.hotmail.co> writes:
> >"Mary" <mrfeath...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:B8sQi.133389$Xa3.132419@attbi_s22...
> >> Paul Ciszek wrote:
>
> >>> Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just two
> >>> more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
>
> >> No, I can tell the difference. They aren't too dissimilar from mild
> >> cheddar, but if you have a real sharp Cheddar cheese, it's not at all like
> >> Monterey Jack or (bleh) American.
> >So your saying Americans are tasteless?
>
> No, just that they should be cooked with soy sauce.
What? No, no, no. Worcestershire.
Mary
Richard R. Hershberger
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007, Paul Ciszek wrote:
> > Is annatto the only difference between white and orange cheddar? I ask
> > because the source I heard this from also claimed that annatto changes
> > the color but not the flavor of the cheese. The two definately do NOT
> > taste the same to me; a few white cheddars taste good to me, but I do
> > not like orange cheddar.
>
> I suspect that the taste difference reflects the differences in process,
> aging and origin, not the addition of annatto. But I could be wrong.
Or, to put it another way, color serves as a marker of the intended
market. Yellow chedder is aimed at the unwashed masses. White
chedder is aimed at the effete snobs. At least it is my experience
that white chedder is usually pretty good while yellow chedder is
usually is not, and modern supermarkets place the white stuff in the
fancy cheese section and the yellow in the main dairy aisle.
Richard R. Hershberger
Richard R. Hershberger
> Paul Ciszek wrote:
>
> > Sure, they taste different from *sharp* cheddar, I just meant that
> > cheese made in America seldom gets very far from the "cheddar" corner
> > of cheesespace.
>
> common ones like munster and gouda and parmesan, there are artisan
> cheeses, goat and sheep cheese, blue cheese, loads and loads of
> different cheeses.
I think cheese manufacturing in America is a bit like the situation
with beer in America.
Back in the day, American beer had a vile reputation, and for good
reason. But in around the 1970s or so there arose a home brew
culture. For years this had a vaguely hippy air to it, but it has
gradually worked its way into the cultural mainstream and now even a
mediocre liquor store will have a few brands of decent beer and
ordering a Sam Adams in a bar is not regarded as weird.
Cheese manufacture is nowhere near this advanced, but it is like beer
was a quarter century ago. There are good cheeses to be found, but
they aren't mainstream. But even this isn't really true anymore.
Midrange supermarkets nowadays often have a fancy cheese section. The
cheeses sold aren't really all that fancy, but then again Sam Adams
isn't really all that spectacular a beer. The difference is that it
isn't hard to find stores selling spectacular beers, while spectacular
cheeses are still an obscure niche.
Richard R. Hershberger
Mary
>
> Cheese manufacture is nowhere near this advanced, but it is like beer
> was a quarter century ago. There are good cheeses to be found, but
> they aren't mainstream. But even this isn't really true anymore.
> Midrange supermarkets nowadays often have a fancy cheese section. The
> cheeses sold aren't really all that fancy, but then again Sam Adams
> isn't really all that spectacular a beer. The difference is that it
> isn't hard to find stores selling spectacular beers, while spectacular
> cheeses are still an obscure niche.
True in general. But my favorite supermarket has a fabulous cheese
selection. Many of them are imported, but many are not. The
perception of "American process cheese food" has changed a lot since I
was a kid, though. Back then we used to get our grilled cheese
sandwiches made from American cheese, period.
I was an adult before I bought parmesan that wasn't in a green can,
but now I never buy the green cans. Or the orange bricks. So I guess
I think that the change is a little farther along than you're
speculating, though some of that could be regional or even due to
being in a good-sized city and not a small town.
Mary
Mary
>
> Or, to put it another way, color serves as a marker of the intended
> market. Yellow chedder is aimed at the unwashed masses. White
> chedder is aimed at the effete snobs. At least it is my experience
> that white chedder is usually pretty good while yellow chedder is
> usually is not, and modern supermarkets place the white stuff in the
> fancy cheese section and the yellow in the main dairy aisle.
My father-in-law, who is a small-town Texas redneck, used to refer to
the big blocks of yellow cheddar as "rat cheese".
Mary
Veronique
> I was an adult before I bought parmesan that wasn't in a green can,
> but now I never buy the green cans. Or the orange bricks. So I guess
> I think that the change is a little farther along than you're
> speculating, though some of that could be regional or even due to
> being in a good-sized city and not a small town.
I agree, although having said that, I'm not sure I'm shopping in
"normal" places where a usual selection is found. Although, having
said THAT, the trip to Costco yesterday found a Wall o' Cheese, with
some very nice cheddars from Oregon and Vermont. They are (and this
never ceases to amuse me) in the special Cheese Wall, separate from
Plebian Cheese, which is next to the milk and butter. Which I've
noticed at regular supermarkets as well; there is Dairy, including
orange bricks and pre-wrapped American cheese-like slices, and a
special cooler elsewhere in the store of Nice Cheeses. I'm not sure if
I've just made my point or disproved it. Carry on.
Peter Boulding
<nebusj.1...@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu>:
> No, just that they should be cooked with soy sauce.
You remind me of a UK TV advert that shows - in rather well done cartoon
form - a rooster strutting down a city street. He's wearing incredibly
garish - and clashing - Bermuda shorts, loud shirt, wide tie, and ludicrous
shades and obviously thinks the world of himself, unlike a group of much
more demurely dressed chickens that scorns his advances with much
head-tossing and disdainful glances.
The ad ends with a voice over: "Some chickens have absolutely no taste" -
plus a quick image of a box of Oxo brand chicken stock cubes.
--
Regards
Peter Boulding
p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal music & images: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
Karen AKA Kajikit
Ciszek) wrote:
>I heard once that American cheddar cheeses are orange as the result of
>a sort of arms race; slightly yellowish cheese was considered better
>than paler cheese (the difference being cows eating stored fodder vs.
>grazing), so dairies added annatto to yellow up the cheese. So of course
>other dairies had to out-yellow them and added more annatto, until you
>get the bright orange powder that Americans consider to be "cheese flavor".
>
>Is annatto the only difference between white and orange cheddar? I ask
>because the source I heard this from also claimed that annatto changes
>the color but not the flavor of the cheese. The two definately do NOT
>taste the same to me; a few white cheddars taste good to me, but I do
>not like orange cheddar.
>
>Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just two
>more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
For American read 'processed'... DH loves it, I think it's highly
inferior unless you're making something creamy and melty (the only
excuses for its existance are that it melts in moments on a burger or
in scrambled eggs!) American 'process' cheese comes in white, yellow,
mild and sharp, at least at our grocery store... I don't know why they
bother with the four variations because they all taste exactly the
same to me!
Peter Ward
That's as maybe. What meaning do you put on the colour of cheddar?
--
Peter
I'm an alien
email: groups at asylum dot nildram dot co dot uk
Leo G Simonetta
wrote:
Two points
How much of the Mozzarella is used in pizza production?
And those are the 2006 estimates - I bet you go back a decade
(and the further back you go at least until the 1950's) things
will be different. Leemeseenow - According to this
http://www.ams.usda.gov/dairy/mncs/1997ann.pdf in 1997 America
produced between 250 and 300 million pounds of "American type
cheese" every month of the year. And in table 31 you can see the
quarterly sales of American style versus other cheese - 3266.4
million pounds of American style versus 4390.3 other cheese (the
other cheese would have to be around 74% Mozzarella to equal the
American style).
--
Leo G. Simonetta
lsimo...@newsguy.com
Lee Ayrton
Izzint there a variety of cheddar called "rat trap cheese"?
--
"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New Jersey,
that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been underestimated."
Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.
Dana Carpender
Lee Ayrton wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, Mary wrote:
>
>> On Oct 15, 9:12 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Or, to put it another way, color serves as a marker of the intended
>>> market. Yellow chedder is aimed at the unwashed masses. White
>>> chedder is aimed at the effete snobs. At least it is my experience
>>> that white chedder is usually pretty good while yellow chedder is
>>> usually is not, and modern supermarkets place the white stuff in the
>>> fancy cheese section and the yellow in the main dairy aisle.
>>
>>
>>
>> My father-in-law, who is a small-town Texas redneck, used to refer to
>> the big blocks of yellow cheddar as "rat cheese".
>
>
> Izzint there a variety of cheddar called "rat trap cheese"?
I've heard it called just "rat cheese." I have a cookbook that includes
a recipe calling for rat cheese.
Dana
Lee Ayrton
The name brings to mind a tiny little pail, a tiny little milking
stool...
Lord Jubjub
Wikipedia has a nice summary (I've seen thses facts backed up by a
number of other websites about Monterey and about
Monterey Jack is NOT cheddar. It was originally made in Monterey and
was first distributed commercially by a fellow named David Jack. It
appears to have a similar recipe to colby. It is usually not aged,
though there is a version called Dry Jack.
Personally, I like the Pepper Jack for sandwiches.
--
Lord Jubjub
Keeper of the Jabberwock
Dana Carpender
Lord Jubjub wrote:
>
> Monterey Jack is NOT cheddar. It was originally made in Monterey and
> was first distributed commercially by a fellow named David Jack. It
> appears to have a similar recipe to colby. It is usually not aged,
> though there is a version called Dry Jack.
>
> Personally, I like the Pepper Jack for sandwiches.
>
I like it in omelets, with salsa on top. Avocado is good in there, too.
Dana
Mr C
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 02:05:46 -0600, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
>
> > >Mr C <camsoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>Except it ain't so. The US produces more mozzarella (a white cheese)
> > >>than any other variety, at least according to the USDA cited here:
> > >>Not much more, but more.
>
> > >But what is American "mozzarella", really? I mean, it's not made from
> > >the milk of some kind of water buffalo, so it's not real mozzarella.
>
> > It was cited to disprove the "cheese must be dark orange" claim.
> > Whether or not a buffalo was involved, it does disprove the orange
> > claim.
>
> Two points
>
> How much of the Mozzarella is used in pizza production?
>
cheese. Much of the remainder is probably packaged as string cheese
for kiddie snacks.
> And those are the 2006 estimates - I bet you go back a decade
> (and the further back you go at least until the 1950's) things
> will be different. Leemeseenow - According to thishttp://www.ams.usda.gov/dairy/mncs/1997ann.pdfin 1997 America
> produced between 250 and 300 million pounds of "American type
> cheese" every month of the year. And in table 31 you can see the
> quarterly sales of American style versus other cheese - 3266.4
> million pounds of American style versus 4390.3 other cheese (the
> other cheese would have to be around 74% Mozzarella to equal the
> American style).
Okay, so if anything this helps support the thesis that we are moving
*away* from yellow/orange cheese rather than that it is "now the
cultural norm." Right?
I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I do love cheese. A
grilled burger with a couple thin slices of brie, yum. A thick steak
with a few dollops of melty stilton, yum yum.
Recently I've bought a few wedges of Morbier, a French cow's milk
cheese with a streak of vegetable ash (whatever that is) in it. Try
it, you'll like it.
Mr C
Paul Ciszek
In article <bandersnatch-1BF7...@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>,
Lord Jubjub <bander...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Monterey Jack is NOT cheddar. It was originally made in Monterey and
>was first distributed commercially by a fellow named David Jack. It
>appears to have a similar recipe to colby.
"Colby cheese is a cow's milk cheese. It was originally called Colby
Cheddar."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colby_cheese
--
Please reply to: | "One of the hardest parts of my job is to
pciszek at panix dot com | connect Iraq to the War on Terror."
Autoreply is disabled | -- G. W. Bush, 9/7/2006
Lord Jubjub
nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
> In article <bandersnatch-1BF7...@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>,
> Lord Jubjub <bander...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >Monterey Jack is NOT cheddar. It was originally made in Monterey and
> >was first distributed commercially by a fellow named David Jack. It
> >appears to have a similar recipe to colby.
>
> "Colby cheese is a cow's milk cheese. It was originally called Colby
> Cheddar."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colby_cheese
Well, it's mixed with colby to form colby jack. But the Wikipedia
doesn't mention cheddaring and the original makers were Spanish not
English. It appears to be a simply pressed cheese, not cheddared.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> > >Monterey Jack is NOT cheddar. It was originally made in Monterey
> > >and was first distributed commercially by a fellow named David
> > >Jack. It appears to have a similar recipe to colby.
> > "Colby cheese is a cow's milk cheese. It was originally called Colby
> > Cheddar."
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colby_cheese
> Well, it's mixed with colby to form colby jack.
mmMMMMmmm Kojak cheese
--
Huey
Hactar
<huey.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lord Jubjub <bander...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
> > nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
> > > Lord Jubjub <bander...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
> > > >Monterey Jack is NOT cheddar. It was originally made in Monterey
> > > >and was first distributed commercially by a fellow named David
> > > >Jack. It appears to have a similar recipe to colby.
> > > "Colby cheese is a cow's milk cheese. It was originally called Colby
> > > Cheddar."
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colby_cheese
> > Well, it's mixed with colby to form colby jack.
>
> mmMMMMmmm Kojak cheese
Guaranteed, no hair in that cheese?
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
Unix is user-friendly; it's just picky
about who it makes friends with.
Blinky the Shark
Meanwhile, here's the low-down on colby:
<q>
THE HOME OF COLBY CHEESE Location: 2 blocks west of Highway 13 in Colby
WI
At his father's cheese factory about one mile south and one mile west of
here, Joseph F. Steinwand in 1885 developed a new and unique type of
cheese. He named it for the township in which his father, Ambrose
Steinwand, Sr., had built northern Clark County's first cheese factory
three years before. The town had taken its name from Gardner Colby,
whose company built the Wisconsin Central railroad through here. Colby
is a mild, soft, moist cheese. Its taste became known in the neighboring
areas and an 1898 issue of the "Colby Phonograph" noted that "A merchant
in Phillips gives as one of the 13 reasons why people should trade with
him, that he sells the genuine Steinwand Colby Cheese." After the turn
of the century this area became one of the great cheese producing
centers in the nation and Colby cheese a favorite in countries the world
around.
</q>
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/wi/county/clark/webbbs/records/index.cgi?read=3779
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org
Mary
Is that a book that you wrote, Dana, or one that you bought?
Mary
groo
>
> "Mary" <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:B8sQi.133389$Xa3.132419@attbi_s22...
>> Paul Ciszek wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, so far as I can tell, "American" and "Montery Jack" are just
>>> two more types of cheddar. Is that the case?
>>>
>> No, I can tell the difference. They aren't too dissimilar from mild
>> cheddar, but if you have a real sharp Cheddar cheese, it's not at all
>> like Monterey Jack or (bleh) American.
>
> So your saying Americans are tasteless?
You'd have to be gullible to believe that.
--
i'm in ur kitchin eatin ur hotdogs.
Ulo Melton
>Lee Ayrton wrote:
>>
>> Izzint there a variety of cheddar called "rat trap cheese"?
>
>I've heard it called just "rat cheese."
<http://deedah.org/cheese/index.html>
--
Ulo Melton
http://www.sewergator.com - Your Pipeline To Adventure
"Show me a man who is not afraid of being eaten by an alligator
in a sewer, and I'll show you a fool." -Roger Ebert
can...@thelast.mile
>On Oct 15, 9:20 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
>>
>> Cheese manufacture is nowhere near this advanced, but it is like beer
>> was a quarter century ago. There are good cheeses to be found, but
>> they aren't mainstream. But even this isn't really true anymore.
>> Midrange supermarkets nowadays often have a fancy cheese section. The
>> cheeses sold aren't really all that fancy, but then again Sam Adams
>> isn't really all that spectacular a beer. The difference is that it
>> isn't hard to find stores selling spectacular beers, while spectacular
>> cheeses are still an obscure niche.
>
>
>True in general. But my favorite supermarket has a fabulous cheese
>selection. Many of them are imported, but many are not. The
>perception of "American process cheese food" has changed a lot since I
>was a kid, though. Back then we used to get our grilled cheese
>sandwiches made from American cheese, period.
Out of curiosity, what kinds do you use now for grilled cheese? I've
used American (of course), once I used Hunter's Seriously Sharp
cheddar, (it was good) and I've used gruyere. Nothing too expensive.
>I was an adult before I bought parmesan that wasn't in a green can,
>but now I never buy the green cans. Or the orange bricks. So I guess
>I think that the change is a little farther along than you're
>speculating, though some of that could be regional or even due to
>being in a good-sized city and not a small town.
>
>Mary
I find that a healthy income helps when it comes to the selection of
good cheeses. So it's usually the green can for me. sigh...
Greg Goss
>On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, Dana Carpender wrote:
>
>> Lee Ayrton wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, Mary wrote:
>
>>>> My father-in-law, who is a small-town Texas redneck, used to refer to
>>>> the big blocks of yellow cheddar as "rat cheese".
>>>
>>> Izzint there a variety of cheddar called "rat trap cheese"?
>>
>> I've heard it called just "rat cheese." I have a cookbook that includes a
>> recipe calling for rat cheese.
>
>The name brings to mind a tiny little pail, a tiny little milking
>stool...
Oh we got a new computer but it's quite a disappointment
'Cause it always gave this same insane advice:
"OH YOU NEED LITTLE TEENY EYES FOR READING LITTLE TEENY PRINT
LIKE YOU NEED LITTLE TEENY HANDS FOR MILKING MICE."
-- Tom Digby 1/27/66
(The web page saying that this song was thirty years old is now itself
more than ten years old.)
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Guillermo el Gato
<p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:
>On 15 Oct 2007 08:46:07 -0400, nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote in
><nebusj.1...@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu>:
>
>> No, just that they should be cooked with soy sauce.
>
>You remind me of a UK TV advert that shows - in rather well done cartoon
>form - a rooster strutting down a city street. He's wearing incredibly
>garish - and clashing - Bermuda shorts, loud shirt, wide tie, and ludicrous
>shades and obviously thinks the world of himself, unlike a group of much
>more demurely dressed chickens that scorns his advances with much
>head-tossing and disdainful glances.
>
>The ad ends with a voice over: "Some chickens have absolutely no taste" -
>plus a quick image of a box of Oxo brand chicken stock cubes.
And here I was thinking it was going to have something to do with the
typical German tourist.
N Jill Marsh
>On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:28:07 -0700, Mary <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>True in general. But my favorite supermarket has a fabulous cheese
>>selection. Many of them are imported, but many are not. The
>>perception of "American process cheese food" has changed a lot since I
>>was a kid, though. Back then we used to get our grilled cheese
>>sandwiches made from American cheese, period.
>
>Out of curiosity, what kinds do you use now for grilled cheese?
I use the traditional Canadian choice, Old Fort Cheddar.
nj"with dijon and brown bread"m
--
I do not remember any fights or fits,
just a shaky morning after calling it quits.
Mary
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:28:07 -0700, Mary <mrfeath...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 15, 9:20 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
>
> >> Cheese manufacture is nowhere near this advanced, but it is like beer
> >> was a quarter century ago. There are good cheeses to be found, but
> >> they aren't mainstream. But even this isn't really true anymore.
> >> Midrange supermarkets nowadays often have a fancy cheese section. The
> >> cheeses sold aren't really all that fancy, but then again Sam Adams
> >> isn't really all that spectacular a beer. The difference is that it
> >> isn't hard to find stores selling spectacular beers, while spectacular
> >> cheeses are still an obscure niche.
>
> >True in general. But my favorite supermarket has a fabulous cheese
> >selection. Many of them are imported, but many are not. The
> >perception of "American process cheese food" has changed a lot since I
> >was a kid, though. Back then we used to get our grilled cheese
> >sandwiches made from American cheese, period.
>
> Out of curiosity, what kinds do you use now for grilled cheese? I've
> used American (of course), once I used Hunter's Seriously Sharp
> cheddar, (it was good) and I've used gruyere. Nothing too expensive.
Oh, whatever we've got on hand, actually. I don't buy cheese
specifically for grilled cheese sandwiches - they're sort of a last
minute decision, not a planned meal. So it could be cheddar, or some
variety of Swiss, or munster or gouda. I had a grilled cheese once at
a restaurant in Minneapolis that used a nice Dutch gouda and included
thin slices of tomato and onion. And the bread had olives in it.
Man, that was good.
Mary
Dhubghall
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, Mary wrote:
> > On Oct 15, 9:12 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Or, to put it another way, color serves as a marker of the intended
> >> market. Yellow chedder is aimed at the unwashed masses. White
> >> chedder is aimed at the effete snobs. At least it is my experience
> >> that white chedder is usually pretty good while yellow chedder is
> >> usually is not, and modern supermarkets place the white stuff in the
> >> fancy cheese section and the yellow in the main dairy aisle.
> >
> >
> > My father-in-law, who is a small-town Texas redneck, used to refer to
> > the big blocks of yellow cheddar as "rat cheese".
> Izzint there a variety of cheddar called "rat trap cheese"?
It's certainly fairly popular in Texas as it's sold in many many stores.
The last time I had it it was a somewhat mild orange chedder. I was told
that the origin of the name was that it was the cheapest cheese in the
store(I assume this was from the "general store" days) thus it was
suitable for putting in rat traps rather than better, more expensive
cheeses.
No idea if this is true or not.
Dougall
Bill Turlock
IDNKT, and curiously, it a mere throne's stow from my home town.
Bill "I exaggerate a bit" Turlock, but you knew that
Mary
> >On Oct 15, 9:20 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
>
> >> Cheese manufacture is nowhere near this advanced, but it is like beer
> >> was a quarter century ago. There are good cheeses to be found, but
> >> they aren't mainstream. But even this isn't really true anymore.
> >> Midrange supermarkets nowadays often have a fancy cheese section. The
> >> cheeses sold aren't really all that fancy, but then again Sam Adams
> >> isn't really all that spectacular a beer. The difference is that it
> >> isn't hard to find stores selling spectacular beers, while spectacular
> >> cheeses are still an obscure niche.
>
> >True in general. But my favorite supermarket has a fabulous cheese
> >selection. Many of them are imported, but many are not. The
> >perception of "American process cheese food" has changed a lot since I
> >was a kid, though. Back then we used to get our grilled cheese
> >sandwiches made from American cheese, period.
>
> Out of curiosity, what kinds do you use now for grilled cheese? I've
> used American (of course), once I used Hunter's Seriously Sharp
> cheddar, (it was good) and I've used gruyere. Nothing too expensive.
Oh, whatever we've got on hand, actually. I don't buy cheese
Boron Elgar
I have a Gouda sandwich for lunch today, with cucumber slices on
toasted rosemary-walnut-kalamata olive bread (I made the bread).
Tomato, onion and cheese on is a favorite sandwich all summer while
the garden is producing.
Boron
Opus the Penguin
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:23:47 -0400, can...@thelast.mile wrote:
>> Mary <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>True in general. But my favorite supermarket has a fabulous
>>>cheese selection. Many of them are imported, but many are not.
>>>The perception of "American process cheese food" has changed a
>>>lot since I was a kid, though. Back then we used to get our
>>>grilled cheese sandwiches made from American cheese, period.
>>
>>Out of curiosity, what kinds do you use now for grilled cheese?
>
> I use the traditional Canadian choice, Old Fort Cheddar.
>
> nj"with dijon and brown bread"m
>
Dijon, huh? Do you spread it on the outside of the bread and fry it
in? Or do you put it on the inside and let the bread soak it up while
the cheese melts into it?
--
Opus the Penguin
I thought about withholding my genius in protest, but that would just
cause constipation. - artyw2
Bill Turlock
>
> On 16 Oct 2007 08:53:00 -0700, Mary <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >On Oct 16, 3:23 am, can...@thelast.mile wrote:
> >> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:28:07 -0700, Mary <mrfeath...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >On Oct 15, 9:20 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
> >>
.....
> >Man, that was good.
> >
> >Mary
>
> I have a Gouda sandwich for lunch today, with cucumber slices on
> toasted rosemary-walnut-kalamata olive bread (I made the bread).
>
> Tomato, onion and cheese on is a favorite sandwich all summer while
> the garden is producing.
>
> Boron
Y'know how I said I was comming over there? I'm having second
thoughts.
Mary
wrote:
> Boron Elgar wrote:
Good. Leave the tasty sandwiches for ME to bum off Boron.
I do love cucumber slices on sandwiches too.
That bread sounds wonderful.
Mary
Boron Elgar
What don't you like.....
Gouda?
Cucumber?
Rosemary?
Walnut?
Kalamata olives?
Tomatoes?
Onion?
Tic-Tac?
Boron
Boron Elgar
I have to brag on myself about the bread. Really I do. I think it is
the best bread I have ever made. I do this bread baking all without
any recipe - just by feel- and the drawback is duplicating this one
exactly. I think I can manage though.
Oh...it's a sourdough, although there is no "twang" to the taste.
Boron
Bill Turlock
Onion sandwiches seem a bit extreme
> Tic-Tac?
hee hee
> Boron
DT
Yeah, "Hmm, what can I eat"..."Oh, I have cheese and bread"!
I was at a McDonalds once and they had run out of meat. They were serving Filet
O Fish and making cheese sandwiches. The manager was pacing the sidewalk
looking for the delivery truck. Now there was a job on the line!
--
Dennis
DT
>> Y'know how I said I was comming over there? I'm having second
>> thoughts.
>
>Good. Leave the tasty sandwiches for ME to bum off Boron.
I'm right behind you!
--
Dennis
Boron Elgar
"@sonnnic.invalid> wrote:
>Boron Elgar wrote:
I like onion on a lot of different sandwiches...tuna, liverwurst,
tomato, hamburger. Never tried any on PB&J and not likely to.
Boron
N Jill Marsh
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>N Jill Marsh (njm...@storm.ca) wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:23:47 -0400, can...@thelast.mile wrote:
>>>
>>>Out of curiosity, what kinds do you use now for grilled cheese?
>>
>> I use the traditional Canadian choice, Old Fort Cheddar.
>>
>> nj"with dijon and brown bread"m
>
>Dijon, huh? Do you spread it on the outside of the bread and fry it
>in? Or do you put it on the inside and let the bread soak it up while
>the cheese melts into it?
I put it on the inside, as the square cheesy goodness is being
assembled. The Best Beloved usually uses extra as a dipping sauce.
Canuck jokes aside, I usually use goat milk cheddar, due to the
lactard issues. It's not as sharp as good old Old Fort, but I'd
rather cope with that than the lactard issues.
Besides, there's not enough goat in most days.
nj"don't say neh"m
Opus the Penguin
> On 16 Oct 2007 16:02:54 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>N Jill Marsh (njm...@storm.ca) wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:23:47 -0400, can...@thelast.mile wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Out of curiosity, what kinds do you use now for grilled cheese?
>>>
>>> I use the traditional Canadian choice, Old Fort Cheddar.
>>>
>>> nj"with dijon and brown bread"m
>>
>>Dijon, huh? Do you spread it on the outside of the bread and fry
>>it in? Or do you put it on the inside and let the bread soak it up
>>while the cheese melts into it?
>
> I put it on the inside, as the square cheesy goodness is being
> assembled. The Best Beloved usually uses extra as a dipping
> sauce.
>
We are talking about dijon mustard here, right? Like Grey Poupon?
'Cause I just Googled and found out there's also a dijon cheese. I
suddenly wondered if we were talking past each other.
> Canuck jokes aside, I usually use goat milk cheddar, due to the
> lactard issues. It's not as sharp as good old Old Fort, but I'd
> rather cope with that than the lactard issues.
>
That must be a drag. So many lactose-based things are so yummy.
--
Opus the Penguin
I can't remember the specifics but it's probably safe to blame the
French. - N. Jill Marsh
Blinky the Shark
I think I'm going to make a BLT in a little while. With lots of B.
Opus the Penguin
I wonder if he could send someone on a run to the grocery store and
at least get enough ground beef to fill a few orders. That could cost
a fair amount. And they might under or overcook the fresh, non-
frozen, perhaps too thick patties. And if they didn't do that, people
might say it was the best McDonald's burger they'd ever had and then
realize they can't go back to eating the crud-for-burger the McD's
usually provides. Peril on every side.
--
Opus the Penguin
It's a little disturbing to be this Brobdingnagian monster from a
family of tiny hominids. - Dover Beach
Bill Turlock
>
> Bill Turlock wrote:
> > Boron Elgar wrote:
> >>
> >> On 16 Oct 2007 08:53:00 -0700, Mary <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Oct 16, 3:23 am, can...@thelast.mile wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:28:07 -0700, Mary <mrfeath...@aol.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >On Oct 15, 9:20 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com>
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >>
> >
> > .....
> >
> >
> >> >Man, that was good.
> >> >
> >> >Mary
> >>
> >> I have a Gouda sandwich for lunch today, with cucumber slices on
> >> toasted rosemary-walnut-kalamata olive bread (I made the bread).
> >>
> >> Tomato, onion and cheese on is a favorite sandwich all summer while
> >> the garden is producing.
> >>
> >> Boron
> >
> >
> > Y'know how I said I was comming over there? I'm having second
> > thoughts.
>
> I think I'm going to make a BLT in a little while. With lots of B.
Okay, I'm coming to your house instead!
Blinky the Shark
Is a nice kicky horseradish mustard okay, or do you want just mayo?
Bill Turlock
>
> Bill Turlock wrote:
> > Blinky the Shark wrote:
> >>
> >> Bill Turlock wrote:
> >> > Boron Elgar wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On 16 Oct 2007 08:53:00 -0700, Mary <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Oct 16, 3:23 am, can...@thelast.mile wrote:
> >> >> >> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:28:07 -0700, Mary <mrfeath...@aol.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >On Oct 15, 9:20 am, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com>
> >> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > .....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> >Man, that was good.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Mary
> >> >>
> >> >> I have a Gouda sandwich for lunch today, with cucumber slices on
> >> >> toasted rosemary-walnut-kalamata olive bread (I made the bread).
> >> >>
> >> >> Tomato, onion and cheese on is a favorite sandwich all summer while
> >> >> the garden is producing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Boron
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Y'know how I said I was comming over there? I'm having second
> >> > thoughts.
> >>
> >> I think I'm going to make a BLT in a little while. With lots of B.
> >
> > Okay, I'm coming to your house instead!
>
> Is a nice kicky horseradish mustard okay, or do you want just mayo?
>
just mayo, and plenty of it, TYVM!
Blinky the Shark
I have most of a 1.5-qt jar and a whole backup jar of the same size.
You could probably get into Guinness. :)
Bill Turlock
no thanks, trying to quit... :-)
Last week I had BLT twice (hold the L, I was out of it (didn't
matter)). Used that already cooked bacon I get at rainbow groc
for ~$1.50/lb equiv. Two sammiches each on two successive nights,
slather both pieces of toast with the mayo. Started with a full
quart, now is half gone. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
http://www.groceryoutlets.com/Locations.aspx?loc_Store=222
Buena Park
8960 KNOTT AVENUE
BUENA PARK,CA 90620
N Jill Marsh
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>N Jill Marsh (njm...@storm.ca) wrote:
>
>> I put it on the inside, as the square cheesy goodness is being
>> assembled. The Best Beloved usually uses extra as a dipping
>> sauce.
>
>We are talking about dijon mustard here, right? Like Grey Poupon?
>'Cause I just Googled and found out there's also a dijon cheese. I
>suddenly wondered if we were talking past each other.
Yes, mustard.
>> Canuck jokes aside, I usually use goat milk cheddar, due to the
>> lactard issues. It's not as sharp as good old Old Fort, but I'd
>> rather cope with that than the lactard issues.
>
>That must be a drag. So many lactose-based things are so yummy.
Yes. I'm not in a horrible way, but I confine my lactose intake to
things that are worth the suffering. I'll never have another glass of
milk again, but good cheese or creme brulee...
nj"high fat helps buffer the lactose, too"m
groo
Are you philosophically opposed to Lactaid? It works very well for me.
--
i'm in ur kitchin eatin ur cheez.
Paul Ciszek
In article <Xns99CBA4DE9BEEFop...@127.0.0.1>,
>at least get enough ground beef to fill a few orders. That could cost
>a fair amount. And they might under or overcook the fresh, non-
>frozen, perhaps too thick patties. And if they didn't do that, people
>might say it was the best McDonald's burger they'd ever had and then
>realize they can't go back to eating the crud-for-burger the McD's
>usually provides. Peril on every side.
When a McDonald's first opened in Evergreen, CO (certain of the locals
had been fighting it for a while), the burgers they served in the first
week were *good*; the patties were thick and tasted like meat. Then
someone from the national chain came to teach them how to run a proper
McDonalds, and the burgers became like those served at every other
McDonalds. :-(
--
Please reply to: | "One of the hardest parts of my job is to
pciszek at panix dot com | connect Iraq to the War on Terror."
Autoreply is disabled | -- G. W. Bush, 9/7/2006
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:59:18 -0700, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock
> "@sonnnic.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> >> What don't you like.....
> >>
> >> Gouda?
> >> Cucumber?
> >> Rosemary?
> >> Walnut?
> >> Kalamata olives?
> >> Tomatoes?
> >> Onion?
> >
> >Onion sandwiches seem a bit extreme
>
> I like onion on a lot of different sandwiches...tuna, liverwurst,
> tomato, hamburger. Never tried any on PB&J and not likely to.
Try Bermuda (or Walla Walla) onion with Brie and butter on a good
bread. The original was on a baguette (hence the name, Four-B
sandwich) but I'm more likely to have sourdough around than French
bread.
Sprinkle the onion with a little kosher salt, particularly if you're
using unsalted butter.
Mary "Or pink Himalayan salt"
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my new blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/
Bob Ward
wrote:
>On 16 Oct 2007 20:53:31 GMT, Opus the Penguin
A friend who owns a limo service used to promote it using Grey
Coupons.
Greg Goss
In the seventies, you couldn't get a McD unless you had 50K (30K?)
people within a defined radius. So the market was severely pent up
when Kelowna built their first McD. On the first day they ran out of
buns, and started buying buns at retail. For the rest of the week,
every supermarket in town was seriously short of hamburger buns. I
think that they were out of beef for a few hours on day three.
Eventually things got settled down and they quickly built three more
of 'em. I don't know if each of them got to re-count the same people,
or if someone back in Chicago had a bit of common sense.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
N Jill Marsh
>N Jill Marsh <njm...@storm.ca> wrote:
>
>> Yes. I'm not in a horrible way, but I confine my lactose intake to
>> things that are worth the suffering. I'll never have another glass of
>> milk again, but good cheese or creme brulee...
>
>Are you philosophically opposed to Lactaid? It works very well for me.
I'm not opposed to it, though I have a couple of problems with it. I
do use it a couple of times a week - pizza night or some such.
It's not cheap, especially when I can not use it just by not drinking
milkshakes. It doesn't work really consistently for me, I'm sure the
effectiveness changes depending upon the food's fat content, how it's
consumed, how much other food is consumed along with it, etc. I'm
also concerned about not challenging my gut to produce the little
lactase it does, complete abstinence appears to reduce the amount; you
need a little lactose at times to keep any lactase production you do
have going.
nj"cream in my coffee"m
Boron Elgar
That sounds like something I'd try. I'll see if I can find some decent
Brie this weekend.
Boron
Peter Ward
>there's not enough goat in most days.
Motto!
--
Peter
I'm an alien
email: groups at asylum dot nildram dot co dot uk
Charles Bishop
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
However do not be led astray by Mary's attempt to foist off an imitation.
Insist on Pink Himalayan Sea Salt, and accept no substitutes. PHS is a
knockoff and an attempt to lure the unwary into purchasing an inferior
product.
charles, forgot mine, and it's lost to me evermore, Lenore, bishop
Boron Elgar
I have real pink Himalayan salt. I got it in Montreal last year.
Boron