Fort Hood
Ted The Cat
at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
Snidely
> Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
sheesh.
/dps
Veronique
Up to 12 dead and 31 wounded now. And three(?) shooters involved. With
handguns. From outside the base? No real news other than the headlines
yet.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Glenn Dowdy
"Veronique" <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd92ae46-e56c-4f7e...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
One shooter has been identified as a flipping major. Hard to believe someone
would put in the years of service to get to that rank and not be spotted as
a nutcase.
Glenn D.
John Dean
They should have armed all the soldiers on base so they could defend
themselves against this kind of thing. Amend the gun laws if necessary.
--
John Dean
Oxford
art...@yahoo.com
> "Veronique" <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Your post is offensive to nutcases
Artyw "harmless" 2
Veronique
> "Veronique" <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Headline at Washingtonpost.com:
"Dead Gunman Was Psychiatrist Who Worked At Walter Reed"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/05/AR2009110503467.html?hpid=topnews
"An Army major, a psychiatrist who formerly resided in the Washington
area and worked at the Walter Reed hospital, opened fire on soldiers
at Fort Hood..."
//cue all sorts of crazy shrink jokes//
Charles Wm. Dimmick
He was a psychiatrist. Hard to tell whether or not any psychiatrist is a
nutcase.
Xho Jingleheimerschmidt
>
> One shooter has been identified as a flipping major. Hard to believe someone
> would put in the years of service to get to that rank
If you are an MD, don't you start out at that rank?
> and not be spotted as
> a nutcase.
I hear the shooter was the one who was supposed to be spotting the nutcases.
Xho
huey.c...@gmail.com
> "Veronique" <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 1:03 pm, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> > > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
> > sheesh.
> >Up to 12 dead and 31 wounded now. And three(?) shooters involved.
> >With handguns. From outside the base? No real news other than the
> >headlines yet.
> One shooter has been identified as a flipping major. Hard to believe
> someone would put in the years of service to get to that rank and not
> be spotted as a nutcase.
Not that many years. He's a shrink. He came in as a Captain.
--
Huey
Greg Goss
Multiple shooters? By the time I got home from brainstorming a
problem in an upcoming assignment, everyone seemed to settle on a name
of a solitary, surviving assailant. The news items pointed out that
confused earlier reports thought that the attacker had been killed,
but none of them mentioned multiple attackers.
--
apart from one noisy guy up in Canada, no-one wants
a three-cylinder tissue box on bicycle tires.
Bob Ward
They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street,
where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination
one day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night
before, so I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning.
`Cause I wanted to look like the all-American kid from New York City,
man I wanted, I wanted to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all
American kid from New York, and I walked in, sat down, I was hung
down, brung down, hung up, and all kinds o' mean nasty ugly things.
And I waked in and sat down and they gave me a piece of paper, said,
"Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604."
And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I
wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood
and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I
mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumpin up and down with me and
we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the
sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said,
"You're our boy."
Didn't feel too good about it.
Mitch
Well, at least he wasn't a homo. God knows they can't be trusted.
-Mitch
Lars Eighner
talented Greg Goss broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
> Veronique <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Nov 5, 1:03�pm, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 5, 12:52�pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Breaking News: �2 or 3 �shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
>>> > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>>>
>>> sheesh.
>>
>>
>>Up to 12 dead and 31 wounded now. And three(?) shooters involved. With
>>handguns. From outside the base? No real news other than the headlines
>>yet.
> Multiple shooters? By the time I got home from brainstorming a
> problem in an upcoming assignment, everyone seemed to settle on a name
> of a solitary, surviving assailant. The news items pointed out that
> confused earlier reports thought that the attacker had been killed,
> but none of them mentioned multiple attackers.
When I dozed off about 6 p.m. CST the story was that a man identified as the
shooter was dead but two other people were considered suspects and had been
apprehended. The supposedly dead shooter had two handguns, so with
40-something people shot, a second or even a third shooter seemed more than
plausible. When I woke about 9:30 it turned out the (alleged) shoot was
still living and there seemed to be no mention of the other two suspects.
It will be a couple of days before they really start to get this stuff
sorted out, and when the facts don't match the early reports --- as they
never do -- we'll have a whole new set of conspiracy nutcases.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> September 5911, 1993
289 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term.
Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't.
N Jill Marsh
>Glenn Dowdy <glenn.n...@hp.spam.com> wrote:
>> One shooter has been identified as a flipping major. Hard to believe
>> someone would put in the years of service to get to that rank and not
>> be spotted as a nutcase.
>
>Not that many years. He's a shrink. He came in as a Captain.
He joined out of high school, and he was 39.
nj"sigh"m
--
Welcome, stranger, to the humble neighbourhoods.
Glenn Dowdy
"Xho Jingleheimerschmidt" <xho...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4af384b7$0$25950$ed36...@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com...
> Glenn Dowdy wrote:
>>
>> One shooter has been identified as a flipping major. Hard to believe
>> someone would put in the years of service to get to that rank
>
> If you are an MD, don't you start out at that rank?
Good point. He wasn't identified as a psychiatrist when I posted. IIRC, MD's
come into the service as captains/O3s, which means he would have had between
6-12 years of service as a major.
>
> > and not be spotted as
>> a nutcase.
>
> I hear the shooter was the one who was supposed to be spotting the
> nutcases.
>
Fricking unbelievable.
Glenn D.
Glenn Dowdy
<huey.c...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:SfmdndFOyNiaLW7X...@speakeasy.net...
major. Based on the 'poor evaluation' comment from one report, not likely to
have been a candidate for O5.
Glenn D.
Veronique
> In our last episode, <7lhvpsF21rkd...@mid.individual.net>, the lovely and
> talented Greg Goss broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>
>
> > Veronique <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>On Nov 5, 1:03 pm, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>> > Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> >>> > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>
> >>> sheesh.
>
> >>Up to 12 dead and 31 wounded now. And three(?) shooters involved. With
> >>handguns. From outside the base? No real news other than the headlines
> >>yet.
> > Multiple shooters? By the time I got home from brainstorming a
> > problem in an upcoming assignment, everyone seemed to settle on a name
> > of a solitary, surviving assailant. The news items pointed out that
> > confused earlier reports thought that the attacker had been killed,
> > but none of them mentioned multiple attackers.
>
> When I dozed off about 6 p.m. CST the story was that a man identified as the
> shooter was dead but two other people were considered suspects and had been
> apprehended. The supposedly dead shooter had two handguns, so with
> 40-something people shot, a second or even a third shooter seemed more than
> plausible. When I woke about 9:30 it turned out the (alleged) shoot was
> still living and there seemed to be no mention of the other two suspects.
>
> It will be a couple of days before they really start to get this stuff
> sorted out, and when the facts don't match the early reports --- as they
> never do -- we'll have a whole new set of conspiracy nutcases.
The speculation now is some of those hit were hurt by friendly fire
plus the area was fairly confined and so ricochets would be likely as
well.
Les Albert
wrote:
>They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street,
>where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
>neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination
>one day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night
>before, so I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning.
>`Cause I wanted to look like the all-American kid from New York City,
>man I wanted, I wanted to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all
>American kid from New York, and I walked in, sat down, I was hung
>down, brung down, hung up, and all kinds o' mean nasty ugly things.
>And I waked in and sat down and they gave me a piece of paper, said,
>"Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604."
>And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I
>wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood
>and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I
>mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down
>yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumpin up and down with me and
>we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the
>sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said,
>"You're our boy."
I was processed through Whitehall Street. Nobody was drunk; they were
all trying to figure out ways to beat the system. Nothing worked to
beat them, and they took everyone.
Les
(Trained killer)
Igor
> "Veronique" <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Probably because he was one of the shrinks that was supposed to spot
it.
Lars Eighner
<49cfb23d-985a-4349...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, the
lovely and talented Igor broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
Also going in as an MD he would have started at captain --- something of a
leg up on making major.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> September 5911, 1993
290 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term.
Roy Smith
news:slrnhf8ssj...@debranded.larseighner.com...
> In our last episode,
> <49cfb23d-985a-4349...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, the
> lovely and talented Igor broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>> On Nov 5, 6:14 pm, "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.do...@hp.spam.com> wrote:
>>> "Veronique" <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:dd92ae46-e56c-4f7e...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Nov 5, 1:03 pm, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > > Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
>>> > > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>>>
>>> > sheesh.
>>> >Up to 12 dead and 31 wounded now. And three(?) shooters involved. With
>>> >handguns. From outside the base? No real news other than the headlines
>>> >yet.
>>>
>>> One shooter has been identified as a flipping major. Hard to believe
>>> someone
>>> would put in the years of service to get to that rank and not be spotted
>>> as
>>> a nutcase.
>>>
>>> Glenn D.
>
>> Probably because he was one of the shrinks that was supposed to spot
>> it.
>
> Also going in as an MD he would have started at captain --- something of a
> leg up on making major.
>
News reports indicated that he enlisted as a high school graduate and that
the army had paid for his college and medical degrees. This is a direct
quote from an AP report:
"For six years before reporting for duty at Fort Hood in July, Hasan worked
at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center pursuing a career in psychiatry, as
an intern, a resident and, last year, a fellow in disaster and preventive
psychiatry. The 39-year-old Army major received his medical degree from the
military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda,
Md., in 2001."
Roy
Jesper Lauridsen
>
> Headline at Washingtonpost.com:
>
> "Dead Gunman Was Psychiatrist Who Worked At Walter Reed"
>
> area and worked at the Walter Reed hospital, opened fire on soldiers
> at Fort Hood..."
>
>
> //cue all sorts of crazy shrink jokes//
It takes one to know one.
Slow Motion Apocalypse
> at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army? THEY are the enemy,
not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I guess it's
better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are rather than
protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect us.
Glenn Dowdy
"Slow Motion Apocalypse" <slowmotion...@rocketmail.com> wrote in
message
news:756d012e-58e7-4213...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
What about these guys?
Oct. 27, 1995: A one-time Army paratrooper killed a fellow soldier and
wounded nearly 20 others in a sniper attack at Fort Bragg, N.C. William
Kreutzer, who is serving a life sentence, wounded most of the soldiers as
they left an athletic field.
June 20, 1994: Former airman Dean A. Mellberg sprayed a military hospital
with bullets at Fairchild Air Force Base in Spokane, Wash., killing four
people and wounding 23 others before military police shot him to death. Two
of those killed in the five-minute rampage were therapists who had
recommended Mellberg's discharge.
Shut yer yap.
Glenn D.
Slow Motion Apocalypse
> "Slow Motion Apocalypse" <slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:756d012e-58e7-4213...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Muslims in the U.S. military killing fellow soldiers is not entirely
unprecendented either.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> "For six years before reporting for duty at Fort Hood in July, Hasan
> worked at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center pursuing a career in
> psychiatry, as an intern, a resident and, last year, a fellow in
> disaster and preventive psychiatry. The 39-year-old Army major
> received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services
> University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001."
He can't have been that bad at his job then, because that research
fellowship is a pretty coveted slot. If I was still working for HQDA, I
could tell you how many other shrinks he had to beat out to get it.
Maybe somebody else can though, since I'm pretty sure those order of
merit lists have to be released publicly, in order to maintain some
transparency in the process. The way it works is that the joint service
graduate medical education board for that particular specialty (for
shrinks, I'm guessing probably bird colonels and navy captains) gets the
jacket of everybody applying for that slot, and rank them based on how
cool they are, and only the coolest guys get the cool slots.
I'm not too bugged about not having access to that anymore. I bet that,
even if I could pull up this guy's records, there wouldn't be a damn
thing in there that gave any indication he was about to wig out.
--
Huey
huey.c...@gmail.com
> On Nov 5, 12:52?pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Breaking News: ?2 or 3 ?shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least
> > 12 at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
> Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army? THEY are the enemy,
> not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I guess it's
> better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are rather than
> protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect us.
Y'know, I have a great idea for how you can fix the Army's problems; you
should join up, and rise through the ranks until you're at a position
that can set policy. As a 2nd lieutenant or a sergeant first class, you
could change policy for a whole platoon. And you could start out with
'zero tolerance for muslims'. I see a great future ahead for you.
--
Huey
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Glenn Dowdy wrote:
>
> "Xho Jingleheimerschmidt" <xho...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4af384b7$0$25950$ed36...@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com...
> > > and not be spotted as
> >> a nutcase.
> >
> > I hear the shooter was the one who was supposed to be spotting the
> > nutcases.
> >
> Fricking unbelievable.
>
Isn't it common knowledge that people who are crazy often join the
psychiatric profession to figure out what is wrong with themselves?
--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Veronique wrote:
>
> On Nov 5, 3:14 pm, "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.do...@hp.spam.com> wrote:
> > "Veronique" <veroniqueuni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:dd92ae46-e56c-4f7e...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> > On Nov 5, 1:03 pm, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> > > > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
> >
> > > sheesh.
> > >Up to 12 dead and 31 wounded now. And three(?) shooters involved. With
> > >handguns. From outside the base? No real news other than the headlines
> > >yet.
> >
> > One shooter has been identified as a flipping major. Hard to believe someone
> > would put in the years of service to get to that rank and not be spotted as
> > a nutcase.
>
> Headline at Washingtonpost.com:
>
> "Dead Gunman Was Psychiatrist Who Worked At Walter Reed"
>
Apparently the peeling paint and mouldy walls finally got to him.
David Friedman
huey.c...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm not too bugged about not having access to that anymore. I bet that,
> even if I could pull up this guy's records, there wouldn't be a damn
> thing in there that gave any indication he was about to wig out.
I was listening to a right wing talk show while driving, and apparently
it's at least claimed that there were earlier things that should have
suggested a problem�in particular that he had been vocally critical of
U.S. foreign policy, to the extent of arguing that Muslims were
justified in attacking the U.S. I don't, of course, know if it's true,
and if true it might or might not be the sort of thing that ought to
have been of concern.
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of
_Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_,
Cambridge University Press.
Paul Ciszek
>even if I could pull up this guy's records, there wouldn't be a damn
>thing in there that gave any indication he was about to wig out.
Supposedly he had been disciplined recently for trying to proselytize
on the job. Of course, the military doesn't do anything about Christians
in the military using their position to proselytize--the Air Force had
adopted a suicide prevention program that blamed suicide on Charles
Darwin's theory of Evolution.
--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |
Greg Goss
>The speculation now is some of those hit were hurt by friendly fire
>plus the area was fairly confined and so ricochets would be likely as
>well.
Apparently the female traffic cop who was near the villain and
shooting was interpreted by some who arrived later as one of the bad
guys. She was shot three times.
When you run up to a scene and various people are shooting, it can be
difficult to decide who the bad guys are.
Greg Goss
Why the hell are they letting Christians in the army. They are the
enemy when they shoot doctors.
You cannot tar an entire religion with the actions of a few flakes
within that religion.
Slow Motion Apocalypse
> Slow Motion Apocalypse <slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> >> at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>
> >Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army? THEY are the enemy,
> >not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I guess it's
> >better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are rather than
> >protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect us.
>
> Why the hell are they letting Christians in the army. They are the
> enemy when they shoot doctors.
>
Christians are the majority in this country, like it or not.
> You cannot tar an entire religion with the actions of a few flakes
> within that religion.
More than a few.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> >> Breaking News: ?2 or 3 ?shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> >> at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
> > Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army? THEY are the
> > enemy, not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I guess
> > it's better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are rather
> > than protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect us.
> Why the hell are they letting Christians in the army. They are the
> enemy when they shoot doctors.
>
> You cannot tar an entire religion with the actions of a few flakes
> within that religion.
He can't? It looks an awful lot like he just did...
--
Huey
Hieronymus Agricola
recirculation' ) wrote
(in article <4AF4A2B9...@yahoo.co.uk>):
>
>
> Glenn Dowdy wrote:
>>
>> "Xho Jingleheimerschmidt" <xho...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4af384b7$0$25950$ed36...@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com...
>
>
>>>> and not be spotted as
>>>> a nutcase.
>>>
>>> I hear the shooter was the one who was supposed to be spotting the
>>> nutcases.
>>>
>> Fricking unbelievable.
>>
> Isn't it common knowledge that people who are crazy often join the
> psychiatric profession to figure out what is wrong with themselves?
>
If you have to ask whether something is common knowledge, it probably isn't.
--
Jerry Randal Bauer
Opus the Penguin
> Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' ) wrote
>>
>> the psychiatric profession to figure out what is wrong with
>> themselves?
>>
>
> If you have to ask whether something is common knowledge, it
> probably isn't.
>
Doesn't everybody know that?
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Mark Steese
news:hd2cei$ehr$2...@reader1.panix.com:
> In article <2Mydnd9cP4WaAGnX...@speakeasy.net>,
> <huey.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm not too bugged about not having access to that anymore. I bet
>>that, even if I could pull up this guy's records, there wouldn't be a
>>damn thing in there that gave any indication he was about to wig out.
>
> Supposedly he had been disciplined recently for trying to proselytize
> on the job. Of course, the military doesn't do anything about
> Christians in the military using their position to proselytize--the
> Air Force had adopted a suicide prevention program that blamed suicide
> on Charles Darwin's theory of Evolution.
That appears to be a grossly exaggerated reference to the PowerPoint
presentation titled "A New Approach to Suicide Prevention: Developing
Purpose-Driven Airmen," which an Air Force chaplain gave to 1,000 airmen at
RAF Lakenheath in March 2008; the presentation was e-mailed to
an additional 5,000 personnel. Although the presentation (based, as its
name indicates, on Rick Warren's book *The Purpose-Driven Life*) did
indeed claim that most people are motivated by the ideology of
"Humanism," which teaches "The Love of Self," as exemplified by Charles
Darwin (?), when they should be motivated by The Love of God, as
exemplified by George Washington (??), and that Darwin's theories teach
that "Man is center of the universe" (???), and that Darwin was one of
the leaders of the Soviet Union (?!?!?), the Air Force has not adopted
any programs based on this nonsense. (Awesomely, the chaplain in question
is named Christian Biscotti. No, seriously.)
--
Mark Steese
=======================================================================
PS: Your second question, you thought I forgot? I didn't. I never found
the banana slug. - William Least Heat-Moon
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
David Friedman wrote:
>
> In article <2Mydnd9cP4WaAGnX...@speakeasy.net>,
> huey.c...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I'm not too bugged about not having access to that anymore. I bet that,
> > even if I could pull up this guy's records, there wouldn't be a damn
> > thing in there that gave any indication he was about to wig out.
>
> I was listening to a right wing talk show while driving, and apparently
> it's at least claimed that there were earlier things that should have
> suggested a problem�in particular that he had been vocally critical of
> U.S. foreign policy, to the extent of arguing that Muslims were
> justified in attacking the U.S. I don't, of course, know if it's true,
> and if true it might or might not be the sort of thing that ought to
> have been of concern.
>
Should the court revist Brandenburg?:
#begin quote 395 U.S. 444, 447 (1969)
[T]he constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do
not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of
force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to
inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to
incite or produce such action.
#end quote
David Friedman
"Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
I think the question isn't whether making such statements, if he made
them, should be illegal, but whether it would be a reason for his
superiors to be worried, and so to pay more attention to him than they
otherwise might.
David Friedman
Mark Steese <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> and that Darwin was one of
> the leaders of the Soviet Union (?!?!?)
Marx too.
To be charitable, I think "leaders" may be being used in the sense of
intellectual influence as well as actual political leadership.
>, the Air Force has not adopted
> any programs based on this nonsense. (Awesomely, the chaplain in question
> is named Christian Biscotti. No, seriously.)
It must be true. Nobody would make that up and expect people to believe
it.
Lars Eighner
talented Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' ) broadcast on
alt.fan.cecil-adams:
Pretty clearly this does not apply to some kinds of advocacy that may be
incompatible with military service.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
It's coming out that they were worried. Apparently he was posting
on the internet that it would be pretty much the same to murder a
bunch of innocent people in a suicide terrorist attack as to jump
on a grenade to save your fellow soldiers. If making these sorts of
comments isn't actionable, then what do you do before they act?
This same problem exists, in general, with stopping terrorists.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Right but there's nothing to stop him from doing this carnage if
they'd let him out of the service. So maybe nuts get a discharge.
What does that change?
Pierre Jelenc
>
> They should have armed all the soldiers on base so they could defend
> themselves against this kind of thing. Amend the gun laws if necessary.
Yes indeed, they should. Thankfully there was an armed policewoman who put
a stop to it.
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org
N Jill Marsh
<mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>That appears to be a grossly exaggerated reference to the PowerPoint
>presentation titled "A New Approach to Suicide Prevention: Developing
>Purpose-Driven Airmen," which an Air Force chaplain gave to 1,000 airmen at
>RAF Lakenheath in March 2008; the presentation was e-mailed to
>an additional 5,000 personnel. Although the presentation (based, as its
>name indicates, on Rick Warren's book *The Purpose-Driven Life*) did
>indeed claim that most people are motivated by the ideology of
>"Humanism," which teaches "The Love of Self," as exemplified by Charles
>Darwin (?), when they should be motivated by The Love of God, as
>exemplified by George Washington (??), and that Darwin's theories teach
>that "Man is center of the universe" (???), and that Darwin was one of
>the leaders of the Soviet Union (?!?!?), the Air Force has not adopted
>any programs based on this nonsense.
Darwin was a notoriously sulky loser over his twice-nightly backgammon
games with his wife, Emma, "Bang your bones" or "Confound the woman"
would be exclaimed if things were going poorly.
He was just pure evil.
> (Awesomely, the chaplain in question is named Christian Biscotti. No, seriously.)
This is the best name ever.
nj"when did you stop beating your wife...at backgammon?"m
--
Welcome, stranger, to the humble neighbourhoods.
Paul Ciszek
In article <4AF4F4DC...@yahoo.co.uk>,
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' ) <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Should the court revist Brandenburg?:
>
>#begin quote 395 U.S. 444, 447 (1969)
>[T]he constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do
>not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of
>force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to
>inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to
>incite or produce such action.
>#end quote
Servicepeople do not have free speech rights. (A lieutenant who
refused to deploy and spoke against president Bush ended up serving
more time for speaking against president Bush than for refusing to
deploy.)
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Paul Ciszek wrote:
>
> In article <4AF4F4DC...@yahoo.co.uk>,
> Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' ) <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Should the court revist Brandenburg?:
> >
> >#begin quote 395 U.S. 444, 447 (1969)
> >[T]he constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do
> >not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of
> >force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to
> >inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to
> >incite or produce such action.
> >#end quote
>
> Servicepeople do not have free speech rights. (A lieutenant who
> refused to deploy and spoke against president Bush ended up serving
> more time for speaking against president Bush than for refusing to
> deploy.)
>
Are you sure that the free speech rights are limited in certain
ways because they are in the military and not in general? I mean,
would he go to jail for protesting (otherwise legally) the snail
darters getting inundated by a dam? But Brandenburg goes to a wider
problem. Let's say they let the shooter out before the shootings.
At what point do you listen to what people are saying and conclude
that they are a threat? Brandenburg is "inciting or producing
imminent lawless action". And that it is "likely to incite or
produce such action." I doubt that talking about how cool suicide
bombers are is that. I don't claim to know the answer, I just think
this is a problem.
Paul Ciszek
In article <7ljudqF...@mid.individual.net>,
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>Why the hell are they letting Christians in the army. They are the
>enemy when they shoot doctors.
>
>You cannot tar an entire religion with the actions of a few flakes
>within that religion.
That tactic only works if the person you are speaking to considers
shooting an abortion doctor to be a crime.
Opus the Penguin
> Slow Motion Apocalypse <slowmotion...@rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 5, 12:52�pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Breaking News: �2 or 3 �shooters kill at least 7 and wound at
>>> least 12 at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>>
>>Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army? THEY are the
>>enemy, not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I
>>guess it's better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are
>>rather than protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect
>>us.
>
> Why the hell are they letting Christians in the army. They are
> the enemy when they shoot doctors.
>
I think we also need to keep agnostics out, since that's what Tim
McVeigh was. Some might say we should just limit the prohibition to
lapsed Catholics, but I say you can't be too careful.
And what the heck was the Unabomber? I bet he was an atheist. He was
at least a Philosophy teacher. Better keep them out too.
N Jill Marsh
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>And what the heck was the Unabomber? I bet he was an atheist. He was
>at least a Philosophy teacher. Better keep them out too.
That's a good google challenge. I can't find anything specific in ten
minutes or so. His manifesto covers all ground, with several passages
such as "so that man in the future will no longer be a creation of
nature, or of chance, or of God (depending on your religious or
philosophical opinions), but a manufactured product."
He also comments on the lack of a strong religious structure in the
west, and on the quasi-religious nature of leftist beliefs, but I
can't find any direct quote from him or from reliable sources that
says anything, directly or indirectly, about his personal beliefs.
I do find him on various lists of famous atheists, but I cannot easily
ascertain why he is there; I also found claims that he was Jewish or a
lapsed Roman Catholic, and sometimes both.
nj"everything covered"m
art...@yahoo.com
<slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 6, 1:44 pm, "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.do...@hp.spam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Slow Motion Apocalypse" <slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:756d012e-58e7-4213...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> > On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> > > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
> > >Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army? THEY are the enemy,
> > >not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I guess it's
> > >better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are rather than
> > >protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect us.
>
> > Oct. 27, 1995: A one-time Army paratrooper killed a fellow soldier and
> > wounded nearly 20 others in a sniper attack at Fort Bragg, N.C. William
> > Kreutzer, who is serving a life sentence, wounded most of the soldiers as
> > they left an athletic field.
>
> > June 20, 1994: Former airman Dean A. Mellberg sprayed a military hospital
> > with bullets at Fairchild Air Force Base in Spokane, Wash., killing four
> > people and wounding 23 others before military police shot him to death. Two
> > of those killed in the five-minute rampage were therapists who had
> > recommended Mellberg's discharge.
>
> > Shut yer yap.
>
> > Glenn D.
>
> Muslims in the U.S. military killing fellow soldiers is not entirely
> unprecendented either.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_Akbar_case
Perhaps they should just not allow anybody named "Hasan" in the
military.
art...@yahoo.com
<slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>
> Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army?
The army is so desperate for recruits these days, they will take
anybody. Even mass litterers.
Les Albert
wrote:
The unabomber adhered to classical cuckooness.
Les
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:26:38 GMT, Opus the Penguin
><opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>And what the heck was the Unabomber? I bet he was an atheist. He was
>>at least a Philosophy teacher. Better keep them out too.
>
>I do find him on various lists of famous atheists, but I cannot easily
>ascertain why he is there; I also found claims that he was Jewish or a
>lapsed Roman Catholic, and sometimes both.
Yeah, the Stormfront folks want him to be both, those cutesy little
devils.
>nj"everything covered"m
And then some.
Boron
Boron Elgar
M. Shirley Chong
>> One shooter has been identified as a flipping major. Hard to believe
>> someone would put in the years of service to get to that rank and not
>> be spotted as a nutcase.
huey.c...@gmail.com wrote:
> Not that many years. He's a shrink. He came in as a Captain.
If he had joined with his MD already in place.
He actually joined before he attained his MD and got the degree from
the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda.
Shirley
M. Shirley Chong
>> "For six years before reporting for duty at Fort Hood in July, Hasan
>> worked at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center pursuing a career in
>> psychiatry, as an intern, a resident and, last year, a fellow in
>> disaster and preventive psychiatry. The 39-year-old Army major
>> received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services
>> University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001."
huey.c...@gmail.com wrote:
> He can't have been that bad at his job then, because that research
> fellowship is a pretty coveted slot.
NPR said that the only black mark on his record was due to a
complaint that he had attempted to proselytize a patient. He
received some extra counselling and supervision for a couple months
after that.
So, yeah, sounds like it was no big deal.
> I'm not too bugged about not having access to that anymore. I bet that,
> even if I could pull up this guy's records, there wouldn't be a damn
> thing in there that gave any indication he was about to wig out.
The only thing I've heard so far that would make me wonder is that
he's reported to have attempted to resign from the Army, offering to
repay his educational expenses but was denied.
I imagine that most military personnel go through times when they
wish they weren't in but I imagine it's pretty rare for someone to
make a concerted effort to get out.
Considering that his job over the last 7 or 8 years was mostly
counselling soldiers with PTSD, I wonder if that was part of the
problem. When people spend lots of time every day hearing about one
thing, it starts to affect them. I see it in a lot of people who
have done animal rescue for a long time. Most people who do rescue
are as sane as the rest of us but there's a fair number who become
suspicious and weird about any animal owner. Their requirements for
prospective owners become extremely stringent and, in some cases,
they stop re-homing animals because they just don't believe anyone
else can take adequate care of an animal.
And then a few of the people who feel like no one else can take
adequate care of animals stop re-homing animals but do not stop
taking them in. They become hoarders.
Hoarders may be similar to this shooter in that they live in a
reality distortion field. They think they are taking care of their
animals but the reality is that they are not. They think they are
providing high quality of life for their animals but they are not.
They will insist that an animal is just fine even if it is showing
obvious signs of illness or injury. They'll even insist that dead
animals are just sleeping, like the guy who was found to have the
dead bodies of two cats on his bed. He slept with them and insisted
that they were just old and napping. The vet report said that the
cats had been dead for months.
Maybe this shooter was living in some sort of reality distortion
field in which "don't want to be in the Army any more and don't want
to deploy to Afghanistan" somehow translated into "take two hand
guns and shoot as many people as I can."
Like the Swedish lieutenant whose girlfriend dumped him, so he hid
in a park and gunned down 8 women. In some twisted way, it made
sense to him.
Shirley
Mark Steese
news:ddfr-F8DF5E.2...@newsfarm.phx.highwinds-media.com:
> In article <Xns9CBBCC78...@188.40.43.213>,
> Mark Steese <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> and that Darwin was one of
>> the leaders of the Soviet Union (?!?!?)
>
> Marx too.
>
> To be charitable, I think "leaders" may be being used in the sense of
> intellectual influence as well as actual political leadership.
Why be charitable? Listing Darwin as one of the leaders of the Soviet
Union is, at the very least, implying that he played as crucial a role
in forming the USSR as did Marx, Lenin, and Stalin, the other leaders
listed. While that is a popular belief in certain circles, it's also
preposterous, to put it mildly. Heck, I've received a distinctly
uncharitable reception round these parts when saying things that were
only about half that stupid.
>>, the Air Force has not adopted
>> any programs based on this nonsense. (Awesomely, the chaplain in
>> question is named Christian Biscotti. No, seriously.)
>
> It must be true. Nobody would make that up and expect people to
> believe it.
Not if they didn't go to the trouble of making up a fake webpage for Doc
Biscotti, anyway.
http://www.tcc.edu/faculty/webpages/CBiscotti/
David Friedman
Mark Steese <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in
> news:ddfr-F8DF5E.2...@newsfarm.phx.highwinds-media.com:
>
> > In article <Xns9CBBCC78...@188.40.43.213>,
> > Mark Steese <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> and that Darwin was one of
> >> the leaders of the Soviet Union (?!?!?)
> >
> > Marx too.
> >
> > To be charitable, I think "leaders" may be being used in the sense of
> > intellectual influence as well as actual political leadership.
>
> Why be charitable? Listing Darwin as one of the leaders of the Soviet
> Union is, at the very least, implying that he played as crucial a role
> in forming the USSR as did Marx, Lenin, and Stalin, the other leaders
> listed. While that is a popular belief in certain circles, it's also
> preposterous, to put it mildly. Heck, I've received a distinctly
> uncharitable reception round these parts when saying things that were
> only about half that stupid.
On the other hand, listing Marx in that role is not absurd, and once one
has accepted that "leaders" can mean "intellectual influences," adding
Darwin is merely a mistake in intellectual history, not an obvious
anachronism.
...
huey.c...@gmail.com
> huey.c...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I'm not too bugged about not having access to that anymore. I bet
> > that, even if I could pull up this guy's records, there wouldn't be
> > a damn thing in there that gave any indication he was about to wig
> > out.
> The only thing I've heard so far that would make me wonder is that
> he's reported to have attempted to resign from the Army, offering to
> repay his educational expenses but was denied.
The Army is pretty rational about this sort of thing. If we buy you a
medical degree, and then, after years of med school, you spontaneously
decide that you're gay or a conscientious objector or whatever other
hairbrained thing you can suddenly dream up that would prevent you from
being in the Army, you basically have two options: you can either serve
in the Army, like it or lump it, or you can pay us back. And it's always
surprising the number of folks (a handful or two every year) who
suddenly arrive at this decision, right as they're graduating from med
school. ...uh, did you really expect us to pay for you go be a doctor,
and not for us to expect anything in return? Did you not read the fine
print on your enlistment contract? This is not 'free med school degrees
for any jerkass who asks for them', this is "in exchange for being an
Army doctor, we will pay for you to LEARN how to be an Army doctor". And
we're pretty good about collecting when that bill comes due.
I mean, if you wanna be a doctor and you otherwise couldn't afford it,
it's an option worth considering. If you wanna be a doctor and otherwise
couldn't afford it AND you're planning on scamming the US government out
of a free trip to med school? Here's a hot tip: you are not the first
person to think of this clever scheme, and we have mechanisms in place
to deal with your extremely unethical ass. And also, apart from any
professional considerations, personally: I hope you rot in hell. And
professionally, I'll see to it that this happens, in every way I can.
--
Huey
Binyamin Dissen
recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
:>David Friedman wrote:
:>> In article <4AF4F4DC...@yahoo.co.uk>,
Do you actually think that the PC police would allow such an action to be
taken against a Moslem?
They have it both ways. First they complain if the terrorist is not
discharged, and if you discharge they scream discrimination.
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
M. Shirley Chong
>> The only thing I've heard so far that would make me wonder is that
>> he's reported to have attempted to resign from the Army, offering to
>> repay his educational expenses but was denied.
huey.c...@gmail.com wrote:
> The Army is pretty rational about this sort of thing. If we buy you a
> medical degree, and then, after years of med school, you spontaneously
> decide that you're gay or a conscientious objector or whatever other
> hairbrained thing you can suddenly dream up that would prevent you from
> being in the Army, you basically have two options: you can either serve
> in the Army, like it or lump it, or you can pay us back. And it's always
> surprising the number of folks (a handful or two every year) who
> suddenly arrive at this decision, right as they're graduating from med
> school. ...uh, did you really expect us to pay for you go be a doctor,
> and not for us to expect anything in return? Did you not read the fine
> print on your enlistment contract? This is not 'free med school degrees
> for any jerkass who asks for them', this is "in exchange for being an
> Army doctor, we will pay for you to LEARN how to be an Army doctor". And
> we're pretty good about collecting when that bill comes due.
>
> I mean, if you wanna be a doctor and you otherwise couldn't afford it,
> it's an option worth considering. If you wanna be a doctor and otherwise
> couldn't afford it AND you're planning on scamming the US government out
> of a free trip to med school? Here's a hot tip: you are not the first
> person to think of this clever scheme, and we have mechanisms in place
> to deal with your extremely unethical ass. And also, apart from any
> professional considerations, personally: I hope you rot in hell. And
> professionally, I'll see to it that this happens, in every way I can.
That was a pretty good rant, Huey.
But it left me wondering, "what part of 'offering to repay his
educational expenses" did you not understand?
It's very possible that his relatives who say this (a cousin and an
aunt, as I recall) in some way misunderstood the situation but
they were definitely under the impression that he tried to go the
"resign and repay" route and was refused.
Shirley
Les Albert
You have some professional influence about getting people to rot in
hell? I have a little list ...
Les
David Harmon
Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote,
>On the other hand, listing Marx in that role is not absurd, and once one
>has accepted that "leaders" can mean "intellectual influences," adding
>Darwin is merely a mistake in intellectual history, not an obvious
>anachronism.
Huge mistake though, given that the Soviet Union was rather famous for
rejecting Darwin in favor of Lysenko.
David Friedman
David Harmon <sou...@netcom.com> wrote:
On the other hand, I believe at least some communists argued that there
had been a friendly correspondence between Marx and Darwin. If I
remember correctly, there is a surviving letter but current opinion is
that it isn't from Marx.
More important, the fact that Stalin rejected Darwin doesn't imply that
Darwin wasn't an important influence on the Soviet Union--although as
far as I know he wasn't. Stalin was also rather unfriendly towards
Trotsky, who surely does qualify as one of the leaders of the Soviet
Union.
Veronique
wrote:
> M. Shirley Chong wrote:
> >> The only thing I've heard so far that would make me wonder is that
> >> he's reported to have attempted to resign from the Army, offering to
> >> repay his educational expenses but was denied.
Idle curiosity: how much would he his education be valued at, and how
much would he have to repay? Would he have had to come up with the buy-
out before his resignation was accepted? If the military shouldered
his buy-out as a loan, would it be structured something like the
student loan program? And if he defaulted, would he be summarily
yanked back into the military and sent to Iraq or Afghanistan or
wherever the US is floundering at the moment?
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Patrick M Geahan
> It's very possible that his relatives who say this (a cousin and an
> aunt, as I recall) in some way misunderstood the situation but
> they were definitely under the impression that he tried to go the
> "resign and repay" route and was refused.
Which is part of the deal, frankly; those who join the military are
apprised of this upfront.
I was considering going to Officer Candidate School post-college,
to pay off my student loans; the first thing they told me was
"If you hate it, we might just make you pay us back; or we might
make you finish it out, it's up to us".
--
-------Patrick M Geahan---...@thepatcave.org---ICQ:3784715------
"You know, this is how the sum total of human knowledge is increased.
Not with idle speculation and meaningless chatter, but with a
medium-sized hammer and some free time." - spa...@pffcu.com, a.f.c-a
N Jill Marsh
<eit...@netins.net.spam.not> wrote:
>The only thing I've heard so far that would make me wonder is that
>he's reported to have attempted to resign from the Army, offering to
>repay his educational expenses but was denied.
>
>I imagine that most military personnel go through times when they
>wish they weren't in but I imagine it's pretty rare for someone to
>make a concerted effort to get out.
Particularly if they are career military, as this fellow apparently
is. Twenty-twenty hindsight and all that, but it does make me wonder
at the mechanisms in place to deal with individuals who are having
explicit problems with their placement/environment.
nj"though not all that much"m
David Friedman
N Jill Marsh <njm...@storm.ca> wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:49:28 -0600, "M. Shirley Chong"
> <eit...@netins.net.spam.not> wrote:
>
> >The only thing I've heard so far that would make me wonder is that
> >he's reported to have attempted to resign from the Army, offering to
> >repay his educational expenses but was denied.
> >
> >I imagine that most military personnel go through times when they
> >wish they weren't in but I imagine it's pretty rare for someone to
> >make a concerted effort to get out.
>
> Particularly if they are career military, as this fellow apparently
> is. Twenty-twenty hindsight and all that, but it does make me wonder
> at the mechanisms in place to deal with individuals who are having
> explicit problems with their placement/environment.
He was apparently a Muslim of palestinian ancestry, although U.S. born.
He seems to have entered the military about 21 years ago (immediately
after high school, and he's now 39), so at a point when there was no
reason to expect military service to involve fighting against Muslim
opponents, in particular Muslim opponents who thought of themselves as
engaged in a holy war.
So there is at least one obvious reason why he might have wanted out
when it turned out that he was going to be sent to help in a war against
his co-religionists.
Lars Eighner
<ddfr-BA8CE6.0...@newsfarm.phx.highwinds-media.com>, the lovely
and talented David Friedman broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
> In article <WaOdnUfLBrGEamvX...@earthlink.com>,
> David Harmon <sou...@netcom.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:16:46 -0800 in alt.fan.cecil-adams, David
>> Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote,
>> >On the other hand, listing Marx in that role is not absurd, and once one
>> >has accepted that "leaders" can mean "intellectual influences," adding
>> >Darwin is merely a mistake in intellectual history, not an obvious
>> >anachronism.
>>
>> Huge mistake though, given that the Soviet Union was rather famous for
>> rejecting Darwin in favor of Lysenko.
> On the other hand, I believe at least some communists argued that there
> had been a friendly correspondence between Marx and Darwin. If I
> remember correctly, there is a surviving letter but current opinion is
> that it isn't from Marx.
Engels was pretty much into Darwin. See "The Part Played by Labour in the
Transition from Ape to Man."
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> September 5913, 1993
292 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term.
Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't.
Glenn Dowdy
"Paul Ciszek" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:hd2cei$ehr$2...@reader1.panix.com...
>
> In article <2Mydnd9cP4WaAGnX...@speakeasy.net>,
> <huey.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm not too bugged about not having access to that anymore. I bet that,
>>even if I could pull up this guy's records, there wouldn't be a damn
>>thing in there that gave any indication he was about to wig out.
>
> on the job. Of course, the military doesn't do anything about Christians
> in the military using their position to proselytize--the Air Force had
> adopted a suicide prevention program that blamed suicide on Charles
> Darwin's theory of Evolution.
>
Or the AFA's Team Jesus poster, among other religious pressures:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/22/AR2005062200598.html
Glenn D.
Glenn Dowdy
"M. Shirley Chong" <eit...@netins.net.spam.not> wrote in message
news:3932ir....@news.alt.net...
just how capable he was to repay, and whether it was cash on the barrelhead
or installments. That said, he was in a grossly understaffed profession and
given the amounts of PTSD we've seen in the last 6 years or so, why the hell
would the Army let someone so desparately needed get out?
Glenn D.
Glenn Dowdy
<huey.c...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2MydndhcP4XmPWnX...@speakeasy.net...
> Slow Motion Apocalypse <slowmotion...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 5, 12:52?pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > Breaking News: ?2 or 3 ?shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least
>> > 12 at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>> not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I guess it's
>> better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are rather than
>> protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect us.
>
> should join up, and rise through the ranks until you're at a position
> that can set policy. As a 2nd lieutenant or a sergeant first class, you
> could change policy for a whole platoon.
..subject to the decisions of your company commander and every other
commander above you. 2LTs are pretty held in pretty close check IIRC.
Glenn D.
Slow Motion Apocalypse
wrote:
> In article <dr5ef553auvmt7642nrht5ni6ecj2g5...@4ax.com>,
> N Jill Marsh <njma...@storm.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:49:28 -0600, "M. Shirley Chong"
> > <eit...@netins.net.spam.not> wrote:
>
> > >The only thing I've heard so far that would make me wonder is that
> > >he's reported to have attempted to resign from the Army, offering to
> > >repay his educational expenses but was denied.
>
> > >I imagine that most military personnel go through times when they
> > >wish they weren't in but I imagine it's pretty rare for someone to
> > >make a concerted effort to get out.
>
> > Particularly if they are career military, as this fellow apparently
> > is. Twenty-twenty hindsight and all that, but it does make me wonder
> > at the mechanisms in place to deal with individuals who are having
> > explicit problems with their placement/environment.
>
> He was apparently a Muslim of palestinian ancestry, although U.S. born.
> He seems to have entered the military about 21 years ago (immediately
> after high school, and he's now 39), so at a point when there was no
> reason to expect military service to involve fighting against Muslim
> opponents, in particular Muslim opponents who thought of themselves as
> engaged in a holy war.
>
> So there is at least one obvious reason why he might have wanted out
> when it turned out that he was going to be sent to help in a war against
> his co-religionists.
>
Damn, they really should have just booted him out.
But if it's true he was being taunted by fellow soldiers then he may
have actually been justified.
Bill Turlock
>
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 15:27:05 -0700, Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
> recirculation' ) wrote
> (in article <4AF4A2B9...@yahoo.co.uk>):
>
> >
> >
> > Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> >>
> >> "Xho Jingleheimerschmidt" <xho...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:4af384b7$0$25950$ed36...@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com...
> >
> >
> >>>> and not be spotted as
> >>>> a nutcase.
> >>>
> >>> nutcases.
> >>>
> >> Fricking unbelievable.
> >>
> > Isn't it common knowledge that people who are crazy often join the
> > psychiatric profession to figure out what is wrong with themselves?
> >
>
> If you have to ask whether something is common knowledge, it probably isn't.
>
My PhD Psychologist friend once _braggged_ that he'd had 650
hours of therapy in the course of getting his degree. He had a M
Div, too and his pracice consisted mainly of helping recovering
christians.
Bill Turlock
>
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:05:54 +0000 (UTC), Mark Steese
> <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >That appears to be a grossly exaggerated reference to the PowerPoint
> >presentation titled "A New Approach to Suicide Prevention: Developing
> >Purpose-Driven Airmen," which an Air Force chaplain gave to 1,000 airmen at
> >RAF Lakenheath in March 2008; the presentation was e-mailed to
> >an additional 5,000 personnel. Although the presentation (based, as its
> >name indicates, on Rick Warren's book *The Purpose-Driven Life*) did
> >indeed claim that most people are motivated by the ideology of
> >"Humanism," which teaches "The Love of Self," as exemplified by Charles
> >Darwin (?), when they should be motivated by The Love of God, as
> >exemplified by George Washington (??), and that Darwin's theories teach
> >that "Man is center of the universe" (???), and that Darwin was one of
> >the leaders of the Soviet Union (?!?!?), the Air Force has not adopted
> >any programs based on this nonsense.
>
> backgammon games
is that what the kids called it back then...
> with his wife, Emma, "Bang your bones"
heh heh
> or "Confound the woman"
> would be exclaimed if things were going poorly.
>
> He was just pure evil.
>
> > (Awesomely, the chaplain in question is named Christian Biscotti. No, seriously.)
>
> This is the best name ever.
>
> nj"when did you stop beating your wife...at backgammon?"m
Bill Turlock
Because he desparately neede to get out? (Unfortunately obvious
in hindsight...)
Bill Turlock
>
> On Nov 6, 4:23 pm, Slow Motion Apocalypse
> <slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> > > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
> >
> > Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army?
>
> anybody. Even mass litterers.
LOL!
Lars Eighner
talented Bill Turlock broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
Of course to be a psychoanalyst a person has to be psychoanalyzed. This is
used to keep people who are supposedly not psychoanalyzable out of the
profession.
Nick Spalding
on Sun, 8 Nov 2009 13:03:55 -0700:
On the other hand what use would he be with that mind set?
--
Nick Spalding
Mark Steese
> In article <Xns9CBCC0AB...@130.133.1.4>,
> Mark Steese <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in
>> news:ddfr-F8DF5E.2...@newsfarm.phx.highwinds-media.com:
>>
>> > In article <Xns9CBBCC78...@188.40.43.213>,
>> > Mark Steese <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> and that Darwin was one of
>> >> the leaders of the Soviet Union (?!?!?)
>> >
>> > Marx too.
>> >
>> > To be charitable, I think "leaders" may be being used in the sense
>> > of intellectual influence as well as actual political leadership.
>>
>> Why be charitable? Listing Darwin as one of the leaders of the Soviet
>> Union is, at the very least, implying that he played as crucial a
>> role in forming the USSR as did Marx, Lenin, and Stalin, the other
>> leaders listed. While that is a popular belief in certain circles,
>> it's also preposterous, to put it mildly. Heck, I've received a
>> distinctly uncharitable reception round these parts when saying
>> things that were only about half that stupid.
>
> On the other hand, listing Marx in that role is not absurd, and once
> one has accepted that "leaders" can mean "intellectual influences,"
> adding Darwin is merely a mistake in intellectual history, not an
> obvious anachronism.
If one respects Darwin and his work, one might feel that giving him even
partial blame for the Soviet Union is a bit worse than a mere mistake.
If there were any demonstrable connection between Darwin's work on
evolutionary biology and the ideology of the Soviet Union, that would be
a bitter pill to swallow, but it would have the virtue of truth; but
there is no such connection. Marx was familiar with Darwin's work, but
he published *The Communist Manifesto* in 1848, and he was well into
completing the first volume of *Capital* when *On the Origin of Species*
was published. Lenin was also familiar with Darwin's work (it would have
been surprising if he weren't), but, like Engels and Marx, he molded his
perception of Darwin's science to fit his preexisting beliefs; Marx,
Engels, and Lenin were all influenced by the work of David Ricardo, but
it would be grotesque to group Ricardo with Marx, Lenin, and Stalin,
just as it is to group Darwin with them.
David Friedman
Mark Steese <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If one respects Darwin and his work, one might feel that giving him even
> partial blame for the Soviet Union is a bit worse than a mere mistake.
> If there were any demonstrable connection between Darwin's work on
> evolutionary biology and the ideology of the Soviet Union, that would be
> a bitter pill to swallow, but it would have the virtue of truth; but
> there is no such connection.
On the other hand, one consequence of Darwin's work was to undermine
religious belief, since it provided a straightforward and comprehensible
rebuttal to the watchmaker argument, one of the stronger arguments for
the existence of God. And the USSR was pretty strongly anti-religious in
doctrine.
> Marx was familiar with Darwin's work, but
> he published *The Communist Manifesto* in 1848, and he was well into
> completing the first volume of *Capital* when *On the Origin of Species*
> was published. Lenin was also familiar with Darwin's work (it would have
> been surprising if he weren't), but, like Engels and Marx, he molded his
> perception of Darwin's science to fit his preexisting beliefs; Marx,
> Engels, and Lenin were all influenced by the work of David Ricardo, but
> it would be grotesque to group Ricardo with Marx, Lenin, and Stalin,
> just as it is to group Darwin with them.
I don't think it is ridiculous to group Ricardo with Marx--I don't know
about the other two. For quite a long time after reading the first
volume of _Capital_ I interpreted Marx as someone who had read Ricardo
but not understood him--not surprising, given that Ricardo was doing
general equilibrium theory essentially without mathematics, and writing
it down in half as many pages as required for the job. I eventually got
pointed at something Marx had written before _Capital_ that was
inconsistent with my interpretation. I still think it makes sense to
view him as a follower of Ricardo who took the arguments in a mistaken
direction.
As best I recall, from reading him long ago, Ricardo and Aristotle are
the only major thinkers whom Marx discusses in a generally positive
fashion.
art...@yahoo.com
<slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at least 12
> > at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>
> not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I guess it's
> better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are rather than
> protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect us.
OTOH, The fact that there are Muslims in the US Army suggests that
there are Muslims who think Al Qaeda and their ilk are in "Need of
killing" something which the military may think is a good propaganda
tool.
Also, the army actuaries* probably figure that the chance of getting
killed by an IED is much greater than being fragged by anyone in the
US military regardless of religion so why bother.
*Army Actuaries? Do they exist or is this just another band name?
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
<veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Idle curiosity: how much would he his education be valued at, and how
> much would he have to repay? Would he have had to come up with the buy-
> out before his resignation was accepted? If the military shouldered
> his buy-out as a loan, would it be structured something like the
> student loan program? And if he defaulted, would he be summarily
> yanked back into the military and sent to Iraq or Afghanistan or
> wherever the US is floundering at the moment?
It's not based on some sort of "value" estimation, but on actual cash
outlay. It's prorated by the number of years worked subsequently. The
repayment is for the entire lump sum, no payments or anything.
Mary "Same deal for full time graduate study leave."
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/
Veronique
> > Idle curiosity: how much would he his education be valued at, and how
> > much would he have to repay? Would he have had to come up with the buy-
> > out before his resignation was accepted? If the military shouldered
> > his buy-out as a loan, would it be structured something like the
> > student loan program? And if he defaulted, would he be summarily
> > yanked back into the military and sent to Iraq or Afghanistan or
> > wherever the US is floundering at the moment?
>
> It's not based on some sort of "value" estimation, but on actual cash
> outlay. It's prorated by the number of years worked subsequently. The
> repayment is for the entire lump sum, no payments or anything.
>
> Mary "Same deal for full time graduate study leave."
I think my subtle (or vague) point is that while one can take out
student loans to pay for school outside the military (and pay it off
bit by bit), repaying the military requires a bit more to come up with
that lump sum when one decides the bargain made is not to one's
liking. One can't just say, "I'm leaving, I'll pay you back" (unless
one has the payout in hand.)
N Jill Marsh
"@sonnnic.invalid> wrote:
>My PhD Psychologist friend once _braggged_ that he'd had 650
>hours of therapy in the course of getting his degree. He had a M
>Div, too and his pracice consisted mainly of helping recovering
>christians.
In many clinical psychology programs, analysis/therapy is a
requirement of the program, your friend's experience is par for the
course.
nj"and part of the course"m
N Jill Marsh
<dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:
>In article <dr5ef553auvmt7642...@4ax.com>,
> N Jill Marsh <njm...@storm.ca> wrote:
>
>> Particularly if they are career military, as this fellow apparently
>> is. Twenty-twenty hindsight and all that, but it does make me wonder
>> at the mechanisms in place to deal with individuals who are having
>> explicit problems with their placement/environment.
>
>He was apparently a Muslim of palestinian ancestry, although U.S. born.
>He seems to have entered the military about 21 years ago (immediately
>after high school, and he's now 39), so at a point when there was no
>reason to expect military service to involve fighting against Muslim
>opponents, in particular Muslim opponents who thought of themselves as
>engaged in a holy war.
>
>So there is at least one obvious reason why he might have wanted out
>when it turned out that he was going to be sent to help in a war against
>his co-religionists.
I know Muslims who have served overseas; that is not as obvious a
reason to me as it might be otherwise. He was having problems after
this length of time, he apparently reported this and asked to leave,
etc. I do wonder how effective protocols and procedures are at
dealing with people in his position, why he specifically got there
isn't particularly relevant to my concern.
nj"another day, another collar"m
Mac
A couple points. The usual method of repayment isn't money, but a
longer reserve obligation - meaningless in this context- or transfer
to another federal agency as a civilian (the VA is the obvious
example, but there are also DOD hospitals with civilian physicians.
The amount of funds involved is mostly calculated for the more common
transfer between different federal agencies, usually military, since
the USPHS was gutted.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> huey.c...@gmail.com wrote:
> > M. Shirley Chong wrote:
> >> The only thing I've heard so far that would make me wonder is that
> >> he's reported to have attempted to resign from the Army, offering
> >> to repay his educational expenses but was denied.
That's not the first step. The first step is saying "I want out of my
contract", to which the Army can answer yes or no. If they say 'yes'
(it's rare, but it happens) then they tell you "you get to pay us back".
The fact that he offered to pay them back means that he must have, at
some point, said "I want out of my contract", and I'm guessing the
answer was 'no'.
> It's very possible that his relatives who say this (a cousin and an
> aunt, as I recall) in some way misunderstood the situation but they
> were definitely under the impression that he tried to go the "resign
> and repay" route and was refused.
Ordinary officers who don't have a service obligation are allowed to
just resign their commissions. Folks who have received a massive
entitlement benefit have incurred a commensurate service obligation.
After med school is a spectacularly bad time to decide that you don't
want to be a doctor, especially if someone else has paid for it and
expects some doctoring in return.
--
Huey
huey.c...@gmail.com
> Veronique <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Idle curiosity: how much would he his education be valued at, and
> > how much would he have to repay? Would he have had to come up with
> > the buy- out before his resignation was accepted? If the military
> > shouldered his buy-out as a loan, would it be structured something
> > like the student loan program? And if he defaulted, would he be
> > summarily yanked back into the military and sent to Iraq or
> > Afghanistan or wherever the US is floundering at the moment?
> It's not based on some sort of "value" estimation, but on actual cash
> outlay. It's prorated by the number of years worked subsequently. The
> repayment is for the entire lump sum, no payments or anything.
> Mary "Same deal for full time graduate study leave."
The Army actually a couple different programs. One expects one year of
service for every one year of tuition/books/stipend, minimum of two
years of service. Another makes a lump-sum payment every year on the
outstanding student loan balance for every year of service, minimum of
two, and the amount is set by DoD (last I checked, it was something like
$40,000). Then there's second residencies and research fellowships in
various fields, which also incur some mininmum service obligation.
The 'paying it back' part is a decision made at the bird colonel and
above level, so I'm not real certain of how that works, but when that
process started, we documented every nickel the program gave that soldier.
--
Huey
huey.c...@gmail.com
Don't spoil it. Maybe he'll enlist, and learn something.
--
Huey
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
I forgot to mention that you can cash out your retirement
contributions in a lump sum when you quit. You lose the delayed
annuity, but you still get Social Security. Since the retirement
contribution is 7% (I think, but I could be wrong, because I was on
the old civilian plan, not the current military one), it doesn't take
many years to pay off the tuition. The repayment doesn't include the
salary or travel expenses, just the tuition and the government
frequently gets a discount or in-state rates or pays nothing if it
runs the school (like AFIT or staff college or war college). Didn't
this guy go to an Army medical school?
The obligation times are also fairly short, like three years for one
year of full-time graduate study time. I don't think any of the
obligations are as long as a decade, even if you spent nearly a decade
in school, as you might for a BS/BA and MD plus residency and
specialization. And you can work off your obligation at a different
Federal agency, too.
Mary "Or you can get a second on your house, of course."
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
> "Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)" <reunite....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Veronique <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Idle curiosity: how much would he his education be valued at, and
> > > how much would he have to repay? Would he have had to come up with
> > > the buy- out before his resignation was accepted? If the military
> > > shouldered his buy-out as a loan, would it be structured something
> > > like the student loan program? And if he defaulted, would he be
> > > summarily yanked back into the military and sent to Iraq or
> > > Afghanistan or wherever the US is floundering at the moment?
> > It's not based on some sort of "value" estimation, but on actual cash
> > outlay. It's prorated by the number of years worked subsequently. The
> > repayment is for the entire lump sum, no payments or anything.
> > Mary "Same deal for full time graduate study leave."
>
> The Army actually a couple different programs. One expects one year of
> service for every one year of tuition/books/stipend, minimum of two
> years of service. Another makes a lump-sum payment every year on the
> outstanding student loan balance for every year of service, minimum of
> two, and the amount is set by DoD (last I checked, it was something like
> $40,000). Then there's second residencies and research fellowships in
> various fields, which also incur some mininmum service obligation.
The only one I really know about is full-time graduate study leave,
which had a three-year obligation at a government agency following an
academic year at grad school. NASA also pays for evening classes if
they're related to the job description (not just required for a
degree). It didn't buy books, though. There was no obligation with
such classes, except that you had to pay back the tuition if you
dropped out of the course.
This is markedly different from the armed forces. NASA, like the
other civil agencies, expects to hire people with the basic degrees
required, like engineers, whereas the military is more inclined to
provide higher education. The civil agencies will pay for more
education, but they won't start from scratch. This is pretty obvious
if you ever read a vacancy announcement.
Mary "Reflects the difference between employing and owning."
David Friedman
N Jill Marsh <njm...@storm.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:36:27 -0800, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock
> "@sonnnic.invalid> wrote:
>
> >My PhD Psychologist friend once _braggged_ that he'd had 650
> >hours of therapy in the course of getting his degree. He had a M
> >Div, too and his pracice consisted mainly of helping recovering
> >christians.
>
> In many clinical psychology programs, analysis/therapy is a
> requirement of the program, your friend's experience is par for the
> course.
On the other hand, when I was in graduate school, it seemed to be pretty
common for students who had a shrink to want to become a shrink. That's
anecdotal--I don't have data beyond that.
K_S_ONeill
wrote:
> Greg Goss (go...@gossg.org) wrote:
> > Slow Motion Apocalypse <slowmotionapocaly...@rocketmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>On Nov 5, 12:52 pm, Ted The Cat <tedtheca...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> Breaking News: 2 or 3 shooters kill at least 7 and wound at
> >>> least 12 at Fort Hood army post in Texas.
>
> >>Why the hell are they letting muslims in the army? THEY are the
> >>enemy, not any nation, not any recognized group of fanatics. I
> >>guess it's better to show the world how nice and tolerant we are
> >>rather than protect the citizens and the soldiers hired to protect
> >>us.
>
> > the enemy when they shoot doctors.
>
> I think we also need to keep agnostics out, since that's what Tim
> McVeigh was. Some might say we should just limit the prohibition to
> lapsed Catholics, but I say you can't be too careful.
>
> And what the heck was the Unabomber? I bet he was an atheist. He was
> at least a Philosophy teacher. Better keep them out too.
He was a very highly rated math researcher, one of my professors in
grad school had written papers with him. Is math philosophy?
M. Shirley Chong
> Idle curiosity: how much would he his education be valued at, and how
> much would he have to repay?
According to the AMA, the average medical school graduate's debt at
graduation is over $154,000. I could see arguments for a military
medical school degree to be more expensive or perhaps slightly less
expensive than that but I'd guess it's in the same ballpark.
> Would he have had to come up with the buy-
> out before his resignation was accepted?
This I do not know. I believe that they are allowed to pay it back
over time as if it were an ordinary student loan but I can no longer
recall where I read that. My bad memory says that I may have seen
that in a news story about someone who got a pharmacy degree via the
Army and then resigned but I can't remember how long ago that was,
what the other circumstances were or even where I read it.
> If the military shouldered
> his buy-out as a loan, would it be structured something like the
> student loan program? And if he defaulted, would he be summarily
> yanked back into the military and sent to Iraq or Afghanistan or
> wherever the US is floundering at the moment?
Again, I don't know.
The news reports, though, seemed pretty clear that the Army refused
to accept his resignation, so neither of those possibilities were in
play.
Shirley
M. Shirley Chong
>> It's very possible that his relatives who say this (a cousin and an
>> aunt, as I recall) in some way misunderstood the situation but
>> they were definitely under the impression that he tried to go the
>> "resign and repay" route and was refused.
Patrick M Geahan wrote:
> Which is part of the deal, frankly; those who join the military are
> apprised of this upfront.
>
> I was considering going to Officer Candidate School post-college,
> to pay off my student loans; the first thing they told me was
> "If you hate it, we might just make you pay us back; or we might
> make you finish it out, it's up to us".
I guess I'm wondering how many people go so far as to even start the
process in motion to ask for the resign & repay option. In the case
of something like medical school, that's a nontrivial amount of
debt, particularly if the person is required to come up with it in a
lump sum.
At the time he joined, he had no reason to think we'd be fighting
wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (he graduated from medical school in
2001). It sounds like he is genuinely religious and it certainly
sounds like this guy was feeling a lot of inner conflict about his
religion and his job.
If there are not that many who try to resign, it might be wiser to
let them go with the repayment requirements.
Shirley
M. Shirley Chong
> It's the Army's choice to accept that offer, and would likely depend upon
> just how capable he was to repay, and whether it was cash on the barrelhead
> or installments. That said, he was in a grossly understaffed profession and
> given the amounts of PTSD we've seen in the last 6 years or so, why the hell
> would the Army let someone so desparately needed get out?
Well, one reason he was at Fort Hood in the first place was because
the commander was concerned about the high suicide rate on base (I
read somewhere that Fort Hood has the highest suicide rate of any
Army base and the suicide rate in the Army is high). If someone is
so desperate to get out that they're willing to put $150K on the
table (guess derived from the average medical school debt), it
doesn't take a great deal of brilliance to wonder if that person
might be desperate enough to commit suicide if denied. Or do some
other bad thing (as it happens, he did something even worse).
Now, if there are huge numbers of Army educated doctors who are
willing to repay their debt in order to resign, then it makes sense
to deny most of them. But if the overall number of doctors who want
to resign & repay is low, perhaps it would be a good idea to let them.
I guess I'm wondering, was his offer to resign & repay a possible
red flag or did it fall within the normal level of bitching and moaning?
Shirley