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Songs "borrowed" from other songs?

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SoCalMike

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Nov 1, 2002, 2:05:38 PM11/1/02
to
Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any that
came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
group or artist does with the original song...

such as?

practically any mariah carey song
"tootsie roll" being borrowed from "moments in love" by art of noise


bonus points for more obscure artists/songs...

i wanna download a bunch of em.


Brett Bayne

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Nov 1, 2002, 2:38:59 PM11/1/02
to
I am not sure if you mean (a) an artist's wholesale
inclusion of an actual, different song
incorprorated into a new song; (b) an artist
ripping off an earlier song, a la George
Harrison's "My Sweet Lord," or (c) an artist
doing a legitimate cover version.

If you mean (a), since I am the list's token
Todd Rundgren fanatic, I must mention "Fascist
Christ," which borrows a strain of "Gimme That
Old-Time Religion." Subtle, but effective. They
Might Be Giants also managed to weave a bit
of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" into their tune
"The Guitar."

Brett

Confirming your striddly fears since 2002!

Gary S. Callison

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Nov 1, 2002, 3:13:23 PM11/1/02
to
Brett Bayne (bret...@aol.commieplot) wrote:
: I am not sure if you mean (a) an artist's wholesale

: inclusion of an actual, different song
: incorprorated into a new song; (b) an artist
: ripping off an earlier song, a la George
: Harrison's "My Sweet Lord," or (c) an artist
: doing a legitimate cover version.

So, Randy Newman's "How New Orleans Won The War", which incorporates 'a
New Orleans tune' which I think is Johnny Burnette, or something like the
live version of Candlebox "Far Behind", where the guitar solo eventually
stretches out into "All Along the Watchtower", which the band plays a
bunch of, and then the guitar solo of _that_ eventually morphs back into
the last verse of the original song, or what?

--
Huey

Al Yellon

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Nov 1, 2002, 3:14:28 PM11/1/02
to
"Brett Bayne" <bret...@aol.commieplot> wrote in message
news:20021101143859...@mb-mq.aol.com...

> I am not sure if you mean (a) an artist's wholesale
> inclusion of an actual, different song
> incorprorated into a new song; (b) an artist
> ripping off an earlier song, a la George
> Harrison's "My Sweet Lord,"

You know, I always thought Harrison got jobbed on this one. The two songs
had similar notes, but didn't share lyrics, or topics.

--
"If you're not part of the future, then get out of the way." -- John
Mellencamp


Charles A Lieberman

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Nov 1, 2002, 3:27:24 PM11/1/02
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In article <6gAw9.51918$wG.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>,
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any that
> came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
> group or artist does with the original song...

There's a song my girlfriend and I heard in Old Navy once that samples
the _Price is Right_ theme. And t'other day I heard something with a
sample from the _Jeffersons_ theme.

--
Charles A. Lieberman | Taylor, you can't love a man with no head!
Brooklyn, New York, USA |
http://calieber.tripod.com/ cali...@bigfoot.com

Patrick M Geahan

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Nov 1, 2002, 3:13:57 PM11/1/02
to
SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any that
> came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
> group or artist does with the original song...

Are you talking inclusion in part, in whole, or a 'remake'?

One of my favorite remakes is Sheryl Crow's "Sweet Child of Mine". I
liked the Guns 'n Roses version and *really* liked hers.


--
-------Patrick M Geahan---...@chartermi.net---ICQ:3784715------
Quote of the Week: "Children are like pigeons - its fine to keep 1 or 2 at
home for racing purposes but once they start crapping on my car, they're
vermin." andymurd on K5.

David J. Martin

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Nov 1, 2002, 3:11:14 PM11/1/02
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Hootie and the Blowfish borrowed a verse from Dylan's "Idiot Wind" for
their "Only want to be with you". I think Dylan's people said "stole"
instead of borrowed. The Blowfish claimed homage. I don't remember how
it came out.

David

Marie Martinek

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Nov 1, 2002, 3:49:23 PM11/1/02
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Some friends of mine (called The Black Book Band) have a couple of
"morphed" songs they do, the only one of which I can right now recall is
"Madman Along the Watchtower", which is a sort of dialog between "All Along
the Watchtower" and "Madman Across the Water".

--
Marie Martinek
Northwestern University
Evanston, IL, USA

extrapoopie

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Nov 1, 2002, 4:01:38 PM11/1/02
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"David J. Martin" <david-j...@tamu.edu> wrote in message
news:3DC2DFE2...@tamu.edu...

There's a David Gray song that borrows a line from Van Morrison's "Into the
Mystic". It's "We were born before the wind.". Good songs, both of them.

> David

SoCalMike

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Nov 1, 2002, 4:07:35 PM11/1/02
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"Patrick M Geahan" <pmge...@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:5t3b9-...@66.188.16.4.bay.mi.chartermi.net...

> SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any
that
> > came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
> > group or artist does with the original song...
>
> Are you talking inclusion in part, in whole, or a 'remake'?

well, remakes are kinda obvious. I was thinking more along the lines of a
catchy riff being looped and then being passed off as a new song... with or
without credit, of course. couple more examples that come to mind...

"ice, ice baby" by vanilla ice... loved how he tried to eplain how the song
wasnt borrowed.

"eye know", by de la soul. pretty neat use of a steely dan song. bonus
points for using a song with horns.

"tic tac toe", by kyper. borrows the riff from "owner of a lonely heart", by
yes.

stuff like that... especially cool when the song being borrowed from is
from a completely different genre.


SoCalMike

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Nov 1, 2002, 4:07:35 PM11/1/02
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"Charles A Lieberman" <cali...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:calieber-F74AB1...@news.fu-berlin.de...

> In article <6gAw9.51918$wG.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>,
> "SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any
that
> > came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
> > group or artist does with the original song...
>
> There's a song my girlfriend and I heard in Old Navy once that samples
> the _Price is Right_ theme. And t'other day I heard something with a
> sample from the _Jeffersons_ theme.


ohhhh, yeahhh... "come on down", by crystal waters. would that be considered
"scat" singing, or acapella? whats the diff?

ill have to look up the jeffersons one... sounds interesting.

keep em comin : )

GrapeApe

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Nov 1, 2002, 4:35:00 PM11/1/02
to
>
>So, Randy Newman's "How New Orleans Won The War", which incorporates 'a
>New Orleans tune'

His theme for Pixar/Disneys Monsters Incorporated is pretty much a rip of Hoagy
Carmichael or whoevers "rocking chair's got me". But its okay, because its
Randy Newman, he still ends up owning the tune, making it his own. It's
separate but equal. Its as good a song on its own merit.

In comparison, George Harrisons "My Sweet Lord" is equal, but separate. That
is, its a much better song, it kicks the chiffons and phil spectors ass.


Brett Bayne

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Nov 1, 2002, 4:58:42 PM11/1/02
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Interesting to hear comments about Randy
Newman from a guy named Huey!

I did not realize I was amongst fellow Randy
Newman fans. The only other newsgroup I have
posted to with any regularity is the RN Google
group.

groo

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Nov 1, 2002, 5:34:10 PM11/1/02
to


Garbage has done a lot of borrowing of lyrics (and even more of musical
phrases and production styles):

In "I Think I'm Paranoid" they used the phrase "Bend me, break me/
Anyway you need me" and were sued by 3-hit band "American Breed" for
infringment of their hit "Bend Me, Shape Me".

The title for "Supervixen" was taken from a Russ Meyer film.

"Push It" included parts of Brian Wilson's "Don't Worry Baby".

In "Special" they borrowed the phrase "We were the talk of the town"
(from the Pretenders).

(Both Brian Wilson and Chrissy Hynde reportedly liked the Garbage
homages.)


- groo

groo

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Nov 1, 2002, 5:40:59 PM11/1/02
to
Brett Bayne wrote:
>
> Interesting to hear comments about Randy
> Newman from a guy named Huey!
>
> I did not realize I was amongst fellow Randy
> Newman fans. The only other newsgroup I have
> posted to with any regularity is the RN Google
> group.
>

But of course! One of my all time favorite songs:


Randy Newman - Political Science

"No one likes us
I don't know why.
We may not be perfect
But heaven knows we try.
But all around even our old friends put us down.
Let's drop the big one and see what happens.

"We give them money
But are they grateful?
No they're spiteful
And they're hateful.
They don't respect us so let's surprise them;
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them.

"Now Asia's crowded
And Europe's too old.
Africa's far too hot,
And Canada's too cold.
And South America stole our name.
Let's drop the big one; there'll be no one left to blame us.

[Bridge]
"We'll save Australia;
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.
We'll build an all-American amusement park there;
They've got surfing, too.

"Well, boom goes London,
And boom Paris.
More room for you
And more room for me.
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town.

"Oh, how peaceful it'll be;
We'll set everybody free;
You'll have Japanese kimonos, baby,
There'll be Italian shoes for me.
They all hate us anyhow,
So let's drop the big one now.
Let's drop the big one now."

- groo

In college, I was a member of a group that called ourselves "Pi Sci" due
to our mutual admiration of this song.

Tedthecat85

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Nov 1, 2002, 7:16:11 PM11/1/02
to
All You Need Is Love borrows from *two* songs.
It begins with the first few notes from the La Marseillaise.
It ends with the chorus from She Loves You.

And then there is I Dig Rock and Roll Music sung by Pete, Paul and Mary which
pays hommage to and immitates the styles of the Mamas and the Papas, the
Beatles and Donovan.

Brett Bayne

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Nov 1, 2002, 7:34:49 PM11/1/02
to
> All You Need Is Love borrows from *two* songs.

So does the song "Someone to Call My Lover"
by Janet Jackson, at least instrumentally.
First there's the instrumental guitar part from
America's "Ventura Highway." Then comes another
musical tip of the hat: French composer Eric
Satie's Gymnopedie No.1 surfaces several times.

Madonna's "Cherish" contains a tip of the hat to
the Association song of the same name. "Cherish
is the word I use to remind me of your love."

Brett
--------------

Oriole Adams

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Nov 1, 2002, 7:35:20 PM11/1/02
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"Don't Call Us" by Sugarloaf has an "I Feel Fine" riff in the middle (after the
lyric says "kinda sounds like John, Paul & George)...the coda to "Bang a Gong"
by T Rex has the Chuck Berry line "Meanwhile, I'm still thinkin'..."

Speaking of Chuck Berry, didn't John Lennon get sued over "Come Together"...the
first line "Here come ol' Flat Top" was lifted from "You Can't Catch Me"?

.:* feel smart again <a href="http://www.mentalfloss.com">mental floss</a>

Jim Shaffer, Jr.

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Nov 1, 2002, 7:52:37 PM11/1/02
to
On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:07:35 GMT, "SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>well, remakes are kinda obvious. I was thinking more along the lines of a
>catchy riff being looped and then being passed off as a new song... with or
>without credit, of course. couple more examples that come to mind...

Am I the only one who thinks the music behind the current Celine Dion song
sounds a hell of a lot like Blondie's "Heart of Glass"? I've never heard anyone
else mention it.


Hank Gillette

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Nov 1, 2002, 11:24:02 PM11/1/02
to
In article <EgBw9.80$3J4....@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net>,
"Al Yellon" <aye...@REMOVEcolgateTHISalumni.org> wrote:

> You know, I always thought Harrison got jobbed on this one. The two songs
> had similar notes, but didn't share lyrics, or topics.
>

So he should have been forgiven because he only stole the music?

--
Hank Gillette

Hank Gillette

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Nov 2, 2002, 1:11:21 AM11/2/02
to
In article <20021101193520...@mb-md.aol.com>,
oriol...@aol.com (Oriole Adams) wrote:

> Speaking of Chuck Berry, didn't John Lennon get sued over "Come
> Together"...the
> first line "Here come ol' Flat Top" was lifted from "You Can't Catch Me"?
>

The Beach Boys nearly got sued over "Surfin' USA" whose melody is very
close to "Sweet Little Sixteen".

--
Hank Gillette

Kajikit

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Nov 2, 2002, 1:32:18 AM11/2/02
to
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote this on Fri, 01
Nov 2002 19:05:38 GMT ... or else it was an imposter and we're all in
trouble:

>Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any that
>came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
>group or artist does with the original song...
>
>such as?
>
>practically any mariah carey song
>"tootsie roll" being borrowed from "moments in love" by art of noise

In a completely different genre, one of Eric Bogle's comic songs,
'Little Gomez' (about a terminally randy and overambitious chihuahua -
listen to it some time when you want a laugh) finished with a rousing
verse of 'Yes, we have no chihuahuas (bananas)' :)

--

To err is human... to really foul things up add kitten and stir.

Karen AKA Kajikit

Come and visit my part of the web:
Kajikit's Corner: http://Kajikit.netfirms.com/
Aussie Support Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AussieSupport
Allergyfree Eating Recipe Swap: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Allergyfree_Eating
Ample Aussies Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ampleaussies/

StarChaser Tyger

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Nov 2, 2002, 1:43:01 AM11/2/02
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We get signal. What you say? It's "Jim Shaffer, Jr."
<jmsh...@alltel.net> !

>Am I the only one who thinks the music behind the current Celine Dion song
>sounds a hell of a lot like Blondie's "Heart of Glass"? I've never heard anyone
>else mention it.

I avoid any of the 'divas' like the plague. Their voices make my ears
bleed.
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information, which artists
do and don't want their work posted. http://web.tampabay.rr.com/starchsr/
Address no longer munged for the inconvienence of spammers.
(Yes, this really is me.)

Jim Ellwanger

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Nov 2, 2002, 2:00:56 AM11/2/02
to
In article <6gAw9.51918$wG.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>,
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any that
> came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
> group or artist does with the original song...

[...]


> bonus points for more obscure artists/songs...
>
> i wanna download a bunch of em.

Because I want the bonus points, my recommendation is "My Definition of
a Boombastic Jazz Style," by a group called the Dream Warriors. It
liberally samples Quincy Jones's "Soul Bossa Nova." The inspiration for
this song comes from the fact that, years before it was used as the
theme for the "Austin Powers" movies, "Soul Bossa Nova" was used as the
theme for the Canadian game show "Definition."

To go more modern, there's Jimmy Eat World's "A Praise Chorus," which
not only includes Tommy James and the Shondells' "Crimson and Clover,"
but also quotes lyrics from Madness's "Our House" and They Might Be
Giants' "Don't Let's Start." (I closed-captioned a music video for this
song last week.)

--
Jim Ellwanger <trai...@mindspring.com>
<http://trainman1.home.mindspring.com> welcomes you daily.
"The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains."

Blinky the Shark

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Nov 2, 2002, 2:17:33 AM11/2/02
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On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:13:23 GMT, Gary S. Callison wrote:

> So, Randy Newman's "How New Orleans Won The War", which incorporates 'a
> New Orleans tune' which I think is Johnny Burnette, or something like the

Horton.

--
Blinky

Blinky the Shark

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Nov 2, 2002, 2:22:01 AM11/2/02
to
On 01 Nov 2002 21:58:42 GMT, Brett Bayne wrote:

> I did not realize I was amongst fellow Randy Newman fans. The only
> other newsgroup I have posted to with any regularity is the RN Google
> group.

Caught a "night of Randy Newman" show over at the Whisky, once, done by
a trio of singers. It was a delightful evening.

Naturally, I love L.A.

--
Blinky

Blinky the Shark

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Nov 2, 2002, 2:27:07 AM11/2/02
to

Not to dilute the musical-borrowing topic, but, in turn, the Mamas and
the Papas' "Creeque Alley", includes a lot of *lyric* history of the
period.

--
Blinky

Blinky the Shark

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Nov 2, 2002, 4:11:26 AM11/2/02
to
On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 06:43:01 GMT, StarChaser Tyger wrote:

> I avoid any of the 'divas' like the plague. Their voices make my ears
> bleed.

It was refreshing that, after they finally found the fader for Natalie
Cole, when she did the World Series thing, last week, she only ripped
the last syllable to shreds. Her restraint was admirable, remarkable
and welcome.

--
Blinky T. "the last syllable of recorded rhyme" Shark

John Dean

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Nov 2, 2002, 9:11:25 AM11/2/02
to

Don't forget Mike Batt had to pay compensation to John Cage's estate for
ripping of part of 4' 33''
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


Kim

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Nov 2, 2002, 9:28:38 AM11/2/02
to

"Gary S. Callison" <hu...@interaccess.com> wrote in message
news:DfBw9.79$3J4....@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net...

> Brett Bayne (bret...@aol.commieplot) wrote:
> : I am not sure if you mean (a) an artist's wholesale
> : inclusion of an actual, different song
> : incorprorated into a new song; (b) an artist
> : ripping off an earlier song, a la George
> : Harrison's "My Sweet Lord," or (c) an artist
> : doing a legitimate cover version.
>
> So, Randy Newman's "How New Orleans Won The War", which incorporates 'a
> New Orleans tune' which I think is Johnny Burnette, or something like the
> live version of Candlebox "Far Behind", where the guitar solo eventually
> stretches out into "All Along the Watchtower", which the band plays a
> bunch of, and then the guitar solo of _that_ eventually morphs back into
> the last verse of the original song, or what?

Johnny Horton.

And the group PM Dawn samples a lot of different music in their rap songs. I
liked the one that took parts of Spandau Ballet's song "True", just because
I always liked the original.

And there are lots of rap songs that sample other music. That tribute song
to some of the gangsta's who bit the dust was mainly just "Every Breath You
Take" done with some different words and slower music.

And didn't Huey Lewis get sued over ripping off "Ghostbusters" (of all
things) for "I want a new drug"? Did he win or lose that case?

Kim

*Never in my wildest dreams did I think my life would turn out the way it
has -- mainly because in my wildest dreams, that guard at the bank never had
the cojones to go for his gun when I started taking hostages. (Mike Lopez)*


Bill Kinkaid

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Nov 2, 2002, 10:52:15 AM11/2/02
to
On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 17:32:18 +1100, Kajikit <ka...@labyrinth.net.au>
wrote:

>"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote this on Fri, 01
>Nov 2002 19:05:38 GMT ... or else it was an imposter and we're all in
>trouble:
>
>>Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any that
>>came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
>>group or artist does with the original song...
>>
>>such as?
>>
>>practically any mariah carey song
>>"tootsie roll" being borrowed from "moments in love" by art of noise
>
>In a completely different genre, one of Eric Bogle's comic songs,
>'Little Gomez' (about a terminally randy and overambitious chihuahua -
>listen to it some time when you want a laugh) finished with a rousing
>verse of 'Yes, we have no chihuahuas (bananas)' :)

Wasn't the whole tune pinched from something by Gilbert & Sullivan?

Bill in Vancouver

Oriole Adams

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Nov 2, 2002, 11:28:37 AM11/2/02
to
>And didn't Huey Lewis get sued over ripping off "Ghostbusters" (of all
>things) for "I want a new drug"? Did he win or lose that case?

I don't remember the outcome of the case, but I do remember an interview Huey
did at the time, where he unwisely said: "I thought it sounded more like that
'Pop Muzik' by M than like 'Ghostbusters.'"

Like he's just dyin' for lawsuits...

Max C. Webster III

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Nov 2, 2002, 11:54:21 AM11/2/02
to
Oriole Adams done said:

>>And didn't Huey Lewis get sued over ripping off "Ghostbusters" (of all
>>things) for "I want a new drug"? Did he win or lose that case?
>
>I don't remember the outcome of the case, but I do remember an interview Huey
>did at the time, where he unwisely said: "I thought it sounded more like
>that
>'Pop Muzik' by M than like 'Ghostbusters.'"
>
>Like he's just dyin' for lawsuits...

Here's a blurb about it and a subsequent charge rising from a VH1 Behind the
Music episode:

http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/1442144/03262001/lewis_huey.jhtml


- Max -
=======
Jack, relax. Get busy with the faqs.

http://www.altmusicrush.com/faq.html

Al Yellon

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Nov 2, 2002, 11:58:32 AM11/2/02
to
"Hank Gillette" <hankgi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hankgillette-9FF7...@news.comcast.giganews.com...

I didn't think the music was stolen either. Three notes *seemed*
identical -- the "He's So Fine" and "My Sweet Lord". Three notes? You're
telling me that there should be NO two songs anywhere in creation that don't
share three notes?

--
"If you're not part of the future, then get out of the way." -- John
Mellencamp


Jim Shaffer, Jr.

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Nov 2, 2002, 12:49:17 PM11/2/02
to
On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:11:25 -0000, "John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net>
wrote:

>Don't forget Mike Batt had to pay compensation to John Cage's estate for
>ripping of part of 4' 33''

That's got to be the stupidest legal decision of the century so far. If I were
the judge, I would've said listen, if you're going to pursue this, I'm going to
overturn copyright law altogether.


Bermuda999

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Nov 2, 2002, 1:10:23 PM11/2/02
to
"Kim" ki...@NOSPAMfamily-net.org
>
>And didn't Huey Lewis get sued over ripping off "Ghostbusters" (of all
>things) for "I want a new drug"? Did he win or lose that case?

It was the other way around. Lewis sued Ray Parker, Jr. over similarities
between "I Want A New Drug" (1983) and Parker's "Ghostbusters" (1984). The case
was settled.

Bermuda999

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Nov 2, 2002, 1:33:22 PM11/2/02
to
"Al Yellon"
>
>"Hank Gillette" <hankgi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:hankgillette-9FF7...@news.comcast.giganews.com...
>> In article <EgBw9.80$3J4....@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net>,
>> "Al Yellon" <aye...@REMOVEcolgateTHISalumni.org> wrote:
>>
>> > You know, I always thought Harrison got jobbed on this one. The two
>songs
>> > had similar notes, but didn't share lyrics, or topics.
>> >
>>
>> So he should have been forgiven because he only stole the music?
>
>I didn't think the music was stolen either. Three notes *seemed*
>identical -- the "He's So Fine" and "My Sweet Lord".

Actually, three notes were identical

Three notes? You're
>telling me that there should be NO two songs anywhere in creation that don't
>share three notes?

>"Al Yellon" aye...@REMOVEcolgateTHISalumni.org
>Date: 11/2/2002 11:58 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <YuTw9.217$3J4.1...@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net>


>
>"Hank Gillette" <hankgi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:hankgillette-9FF7...@news.comcast.giganews.com...
>> In article <EgBw9.80$3J4....@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net>,
>> "Al Yellon" <aye...@REMOVEcolgateTHISalumni.org> wrote:
>>
>> > You know, I always thought Harrison got jobbed on this one. The two
>songs
>> > had similar notes, but didn't share lyrics, or topics.
>> >
>>
>> So he should have been forgiven because he only stole the music?
>
>I didn't think the music was stolen either. Three notes *seemed*
>identical -- the "He's So Fine" and "My Sweet Lord". Three notes?

They did not seem identical, they were identical. And they formed the first
motif on which the court based its ruling. The motif was the title to each song
and was repeated throughout the song. The second motif, of 5 or 6 notes, was
also repeated throughout the song. Experts for Harrison and Levy both
acknowledged that this was a highly unusual pattern. There is not much more to
the songs musically aside from those two motifs, and an instrumental break.


Robert Goodman

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 3:23:51 PM11/2/02
to
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6gAw9.51918$wG.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...

> Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any
that
> came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what
another
> group or artist does with the original song...
>
> such as?
>
> practically any mariah carey song
> "tootsie roll" being borrowed from "moments in love" by art of noise
>
>

> bonus points for more obscure artists/songs...

Oh, then ask ir...@wfmu.org about one of the videos of "outsider
musicians" he played last night at the Museum of Folk Art in Manhattan.
The piece contained a considerable musical quote from The Police -- from
"I'll Be Watching You" IIRC. I don't think outsider music is especially
prone to THAT type of borrowing, unless you count the quotes that are
synthesized as "samplings" in "house" music. In that genre, short
musical quotes are played as if they were individual notes.

However, if you're looking for entire COVERS, there's plenty of that by
outsider musicians. I recommend Eilert Pilarm, the Swedish Elvis
Presley. Especially memorable is his rendition of "Yailhouse Rock".
It's included as one track Irwin's compilation CD, "Songs In the Key of
Z".

> i wanna download a bunch of em.

That could be a problem. However, some may be archived at
http://wfmu.org .

Much popular music includes learned quotes from other recent pop or
classical music. They're little inside jokes. You get plenty in jazz
too. I may have mentioned here a time I'd come home from a slightly
high intraocular pressure reading I'd gotten, turned on the TV, and
heard in the scene intro music of one show a little riff consisting of
counterpoint to "3 Blind Mice".

Robert


Robert Goodman

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 3:28:46 PM11/2/02
to
"Al Yellon" <aye...@REMOVEcolgateTHISalumni.org> wrote in message
news:EgBw9.80$3J4....@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net...

> "Brett Bayne" <bret...@aol.commieplot> wrote in message
> news:20021101143859...@mb-mq.aol.com...

> > I am not sure if you mean (a) an artist's wholesale
> > inclusion of an actual, different song
> > incorprorated into a new song; (b) an artist
> > ripping off an earlier song, a la George
> > Harrison's "My Sweet Lord,"
>

> You know, I always thought Harrison got jobbed on this one. The two
songs
> had similar notes, but didn't share lyrics, or topics.

It's not in the same class as the more obvious resemblance between "Love
Potion #9" and "You've Got to Change Your Evil Ways".

Dr. Demento used to (maybe still does) feature "copycat" comparisons.

Robert

Dutch Courage of Horror

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 3:52:17 PM11/2/02
to
Mr. Shaffer writes:

I suspect Dean is pulling your leg, just a bit. Mike Batt settled out of court
for "an undisclosed six-figure sum." He probably would've spent that amount
just on lawyers for a trial.

--
." A cover in bad taste, for example, might be defined as holding the head a
little higher so that the blood could be seen dripping from it, and moving the
body over a little further so that the neck of the body could be seen to be
bloody."

Gary S. Callison

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 6:43:40 PM11/2/02
to
Robert Goodman (rob...@bestweb.net) wrote:
: "Al Yellon" <aye...@REMOVEcolgateTHISalumni.org> wrote:
: > You know, I always thought Harrison got jobbed on this one. The two

: > songs had similar notes, but didn't share lyrics, or topics.
: It's not in the same class as the more obvious resemblance between "Love
: Potion #9" and "You've Got to Change Your Evil Ways".

Get two turntables, and start "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" by Led Zepplin
and "Madame Blue" by Styx at the same time. You get to the end of the
first verse before there's a single difference between the two. Explain THAT.

--
Huey

Brett Bayne

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 7:28:50 PM11/2/02
to
"Every Morning" by Sugar Ray contains a rendition of the wordless vocal chorus
from the 1970s R&B hit "Suavecito" by Malo.

Brett

Al Yellon

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 7:55:24 PM11/2/02
to
"Brett Bayne" <bret...@aol.commieplot> wrote in message
news:20021102192850...@mb-ba.aol.com...

> "Every Morning" by Sugar Ray contains a rendition of the wordless vocal
chorus
> from the 1970s R&B hit "Suavecito" by Malo.

However, I think they now call that "sampling", don't they?

Robert Goodman

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 8:16:35 PM11/2/02
to
"Kajikit" <ka...@labyrinth.net.au> wrote in message
news:d9s6sugks0ljj1d08...@4ax.com...

> In a completely different genre, one of Eric Bogle's comic songs,
> 'Little Gomez' (about a terminally randy and overambitious chihuahua -
> listen to it some time when you want a laugh) finished with a rousing
> verse of 'Yes, we have no chihuahuas (bananas)' :)

Parodying a song which is itself composed almost entirely of quotes from
4 other pieces of music.


Brett Bayne

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 9:01:16 PM11/2/02
to
I don't think Suavecito was sampled. I could be wrong, but I think it was a
performance. Anybody here know definitively?

Brett
-------------

SoCalMike

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 10:02:59 PM11/2/02
to

"Brett Bayne" <bret...@aol.commieplot> wrote in message
news:20021102210116...@mb-dh.aol.com...

> I don't think Suavecito was sampled. I could be wrong, but I think it was
a
> performance. Anybody here know definitively?

rico suave probably was...


Jim Ellwanger

unread,
Nov 2, 2002, 11:53:19 PM11/2/02
to
In article <aq1dnn$5n8iu$2...@ID-140940.news.dfncis.de>,
"Robert Goodman" <rob...@bestweb.net> wrote:

> It's not in the same class as the more obvious resemblance between "Love
> Potion #9" and "You've Got to Change Your Evil Ways".

Or my favorite, the uncanny resemblance between the theme to "All Things
Considered" and the Harvey Johnson portions of "The Telephone Hour" from
"Bye Bye Birdie" ("Hello, Mrs. Finkel, this is Harvey Johnson...").

Paul L. Madarasz

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 11:47:06 AM11/3/02
to
On 02 Nov 2002 00:34:49 GMT, bret...@aol.commieplot (Brett Bayne)
wrote, perhaps among other things...:

>> All You Need Is Love borrows from *two* songs.
>

>So does the song "Someone to Call My Lover"
>by Janet Jackson, at least instrumentally.
>First there's the instrumental guitar part from
>America's "Ventura Highway." Then comes another
>musical tip of the hat: French composer Eric
>Satie's Gymnopedie No.1 surfaces several times.

Satie has also been used by the Beatles (Flying), Ultimate Spinach
(some tune that sounds just like "Flying"), and Country Joe and the
Fish (yeah, yet another tune that sounds like "Flying").

Satie's bare feet got quite the workout in the 60s.
--
Paul L. Madarasz
Tucson, Baja Arizona
"How 'bout cuttin' that rebop?
-- S. Kowalski


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Paul L. Madarasz

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 11:49:38 AM11/3/02
to
No one's mentioned Lennon's "Here come ol' flattop..." which line was
taken from "You Can't Catch Me," by -- I believe -- one Charles Berry
(he of the shit-eating grin).

Brett Bayne

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 12:45:29 PM11/3/02
to
Actually, Paul, someone did mention ol' flattop in the past week.

Nobody's mentioned Pruneface, though.

Brett

Paul L. Madarasz

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 1:12:07 PM11/3/02
to
On 03 Nov 2002 17:45:29 GMT, bret...@aol.commieplot (Brett Bayne)

wrote, perhaps among other things...:

>Actually, Paul, someone did mention ol' flattop in the past week.

I *thought* I saw Diet Smith's Space Coupe around here...

Al Yellon

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 1:38:00 PM11/3/02
to
"Paul L. Madarasz" <pl...@dakotacom.net> wrote in message
news:3kkasuspgrp8bsu0l...@4ax.com...

> Satie has also been used by the Beatles (Flying), Ultimate Spinach
> (some tune that sounds just like "Flying"), and Country Joe and the
> Fish (yeah, yet another tune that sounds like "Flying").

Blood, Sweat & Tears did an entire song in tribute to Satie.

artyw

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 3:09:16 PM11/3/02
to
> >
>
> Some friends of mine (called The Black Book Band) have a couple of
> "morphed" songs they do, the only one of which I can right now recall is
> "Madman Along the Watchtower", which is a sort of dialog between "All Along
> the Watchtower" and "Madman Across the Water".

Is that something like "Stairway to Gilligan's Island?

Blinky the Shark

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 5:57:18 PM11/3/02
to
Paul L Madarasz wrote:

> On 02 Nov 2002 00:34:49 GMT, bret...@aol.commieplot (Brett Bayne)
> wrote, perhaps among other things...:

>>> All You Need Is Love borrows from *two* songs.

>>So does the song "Someone to Call My Lover" by Janet Jackson, at least
>>instrumentally. First there's the instrumental guitar part from
>>America's "Ventura Highway." Then comes another musical tip of the
>>hat: French composer Eric Satie's Gymnopedie No.1 surfaces several
>>times.

> Satie has also been used by the Beatles (Flying), Ultimate Spinach
> (some tune that sounds just like "Flying"), and Country Joe and the
> Fish (yeah, yet another tune that sounds like "Flying").
>
> Satie's bare feet got quite the workout in the 60s.

I have an old Blood, Sweat and Tears album that has a cut titled
"Variations On A Theme By Eric Satie", IIRC. Such credit is probably
pretty unusual. There's a possible subthread of probably limited
longevity...

--
Blinky

Blinky the Shark

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 6:11:09 PM11/3/02
to
Paul L Madarasz wrote:
> No one's mentioned Lennon's "Here come ol' flattop..." which line was
> taken from "You Can't Catch Me," by -- I believe -- one Charles Berry
> (he of the shit-eating grin).

From a Lennon bio:

"For his next record--which was to be his last for five years--he turned
to legendary producer Phil Spector to make an album of old rock and roll
songs. This was in part a legal obligation, part of an out-of-court
settlement with Chuck Berry's publisher who claimed that Lennon had
lifted the line "Here come old flattop" in "Come Together" from Berry's
"You Can't Catch Me." To avoid a lawsuit, Lennon had agreed to record
several Berry tunes, and he decided to fill out the album with other
fifties classics...."

--
Blinky

John Hatpin

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 7:53:07 PM11/3/02
to
SoCalMike wrote:

>Im kinda interested in this and just wondered whether anyone had any that
>came to mind immediately. Sometimes its interesting to see what another
>group or artist does with the original song...

Worst of all, "Night Train".

For those that don't know, this was a very popular R&B hit for the
tenor sax player Jimmy Forrest in the early 1950s, and still gets a
fair amount of airplay to this day. It made Forrest rich, mainly
because it became a theme for strippers.

The thing is, it's an almost exact copy of a Duke Ellington piece,
which Forrest was sitting in on during recording rehearsals, but
wasn't immediately released. Forrest left the studio, got a band
together, and recorded and released Ellington's piece under his own
name, retitling it "Night Train".

IIRC, Duke took this to court through his lawyers, but was too busy
making new music (and too disinterested in his past achievements, a
trademark of his behaviour) to get a resolution. Forrest still gets
credit.

--
John Hatpin

Al Yellon

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 8:43:25 PM11/3/02
to
"artyw" <art...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fcd1f4e4.02110...@posting.google.com...

Ah, yes, Little Roger & the Goosebumps' classic. I just heard it on the
radio yesterday.

Shalom Septimus

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 9:03:16 PM11/3/02
to
On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 01:11:21 -0500, Hank Gillette
<hankgi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The Beach Boys nearly got sued over "Surfin' USA" whose melody is very
>close to "Sweet Little Sixteen".

Which is why the writer's credit says "Berry/Wilson", no?

Shalom Septimus

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 9:03:40 PM11/3/02
to
On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:43:40 GMT, hu...@interaccess.com (Gary S.
Callison) wrote:

>Get two turntables, and start "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" by Led Zepplin
>and "Madame Blue" by Styx at the same time. You get to the end of the
>first verse before there's a single difference between the two. Explain THAT.

Hmmm.

<fire up W*nMX>
<search>
<download>

You gotta point. It's the same guitar riff.

Of course Led Zep ripped off "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" themselves,
(from Joan Baez of all people!) so I don't see where they've got a beef.
They credited it to "Traditional", where "Anne Bredon" would have been
more appropriate.

Then Chicago horked another riff from *their* song for "25 Or 6 To 4",
if you want to follow it further down the line...
--
Shalom

GrapeApe

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 9:13:57 PM11/3/02
to
>
>Satie has also been used by the Beatles (Flying),

I love Satie, and the Beatles (Flying), but have never noticed this
resemblance. What Satie piece is it that sounds like flying?

GrapeApe

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 9:19:32 PM11/3/02
to
>And didn't Huey Lewis get sued over ripping off "Ghostbusters" (of all
>things) for "I want a new drug"? Did he win or lose that case?

Wasn't Hueys song first, The Ghostbusters theme being the rip? I forget.

Billy Ocean ripped Billie Jean for 'Carribean Queen" around the same time.

Robert Goodman

unread,
Nov 3, 2002, 9:19:17 PM11/3/02
to
The mood music in "Twin Peaks" I think was a deliberate reference to
that of the TV show "Batman". Not the themes, but the mood music -- a 5
note sequence.


Dutch Courage of Horror

unread,
Nov 4, 2002, 12:46:07 AM11/4/02
to
Mr Goodman writes:

>
>The mood music in "Twin Peaks" I think was a deliberate reference to
>that of the TV show "Batman".

No, not really. But the theme does sound a lot like a slower version of a song
by the Beastie Boys called "Girls."

Also, The Simpsons' theme music is derived from a slowed down version of The
Jetsons. You should be able to find a WAV of their doorbell on the web, if you
slow it down in Sound Recorder or whatever you use you'll see what I mean.

Shalom Septimus

unread,
Nov 4, 2002, 1:43:29 AM11/4/02
to
On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:52:15 GMT, Bill Kinkaid <kin...@telus.net>
wrote:

>finished with a rousing
>>verse of 'Yes, we have no chihuahuas (bananas)' :)

Harry Chapin wrote a song called "30,000 Pounds Of Bananas". In the live
recording of this song, he gets to the end, and says that he had trouble
coming up with an ending.

"The first thing I thought of went something like this:

``Yes, we have no bananas/We have no bananas today
Yes we have no bananas/Bananas in Scranton, P.A.''

And I played this for my brothers and the boys in the band, and their
reaction was perhaps best summed up by my brother Tom, who said--"

Tom [stage whisper]: "Harry... it sucks."
--
Shalom

Rick B.

unread,
Nov 4, 2002, 8:59:48 AM11/4/02
to

And at the start of the song, he admits stealing the opening guitar
lick from a Chet Atkins record. (One of Harry's favorite quotes to use
in inteviews was "Bad artists borrow--great artists steal." He stole
that from Stravinsky, I think.)

Oriole Adams

unread,
Nov 4, 2002, 9:09:23 AM11/4/02
to
>>And didn't Huey Lewis get sued over ripping off "Ghostbusters" (of all
>>things) for "I want a new drug"? Did he win or lose that case?
>
>Wasn't Hueys song first, The Ghostbusters theme being the rip? I forget.

You're right, and it was Ray Parker that said he thought it sounded more like
"Pop Muzik."


Oriole ~
.:* feel smart again <a href="http://www.mentalfloss.com">mental floss</a>

Robert Goodman

unread,
Nov 4, 2002, 1:13:42 PM11/4/02
to
"Dutch Courage of Horror" <mutigho...@aol.comsquatron> wrote in
message news:20021104004607...@mb-co.aol.com...

> Also, The Simpsons' theme music is derived from a slowed down version
of The
> Jetsons.

Actually they're both versions of the accompaniment side of "Run Little
Rivulet, Run", with a whole lot of rubato.


mat...@vax.hanford.org

unread,
Nov 4, 2002, 9:21:53 PM11/4/02
to
It's not the same thing at all, but the beginning of one of the Fleetwood
Mac songs (on either Fleetwood Mac or Rumours) sounds to me like the
Barney Miller theme song.
--
mat...@vax.hanford.org

Paul L. Madarasz

unread,
Nov 4, 2002, 9:44:41 PM11/4/02
to
On Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:03:16 -0500, Shalom Septimus
<drug...@p0b0x.c0m> wrote, perhaps among other things...:

Lost your original post (asking about Satie in "Flying."). It's the
la-la-la part, from Gymnopaedie #1 (I think).

Oriole Adams

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 9:41:01 AM11/5/02
to
Mattack mentioned:

>It's not the same thing at all, but the beginning of one of the Fleetwood
>Mac songs (on either Fleetwood Mac or Rumours) sounds to me like the
>Barney Miller theme song.

Oh, I know the part you're talking about - the bass break in "The Chain", right
before they launch into the "Chaaain, keeps us together" ending.

Estron

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 1:19:37 PM11/5/02
to
Previously, in alt.fan.cecil-adams, Oriole Adams wrote:

> Oh, I know the part you're talking about - the bass break in "The Chain", right
> before they launch into the "Chaaain, keeps us together" ending.

What, just a solo bass line? You might as well include the free-form solo
bass line just before the final chorus in Paul Simon's "You Can Call Me
Al."

Way back in 1973, when I was still a churchgoing Catholic, I recognized
the melody of Simon's single "American Tune" as an old church hymn,
variously called "O Sacred Head Surrounded" or "O Sacred Head Sore
Wounded."

And of course, on their "Magical Mystery Tour" album, the Beatles managed,
in the finale to "All You Need Is Love," to insert their own former hit
"She Love You" as well as an orchestral excerpt from "Greensleeves."

--
All opinions expressed above are nothing more than that.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@tfs.net
Kansas City, Missouri

Estron

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 1:19:39 PM11/5/02
to
Previously, in alt.fan.cecil-adams, Tedthecat85 wrote:

> All You Need Is Love borrows from *two* songs.

> It begins with the first few notes from the La Marseillaise.
> It ends with the chorus from She Loves You.

You forgot "Greensleeves."

> And then there is I Dig Rock and Roll Music sung by Pete, Paul and Mary which
> pays hommage to and immitates the styles of the Mamas and the Papas, the
> Beatles and Donovan.

There was a two-hit wonder band called Sugarloaf in the '70s, whose second
hit (their first being "Green-Eyed Lady") was a music-biz story titled
"Don't Call Us, We'll Call You." The bridge went:

"Listen, kid, you pay for the call
You ain't bad but we've heard it all before
Yeah it sounds like John, Paul and George"

after which there were two bars lifted directly from "I Feel Fine."

Paul L. Madarasz

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 1:30:20 PM11/5/02
to
On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:19:37 -0600, Estron <est...@tfs.net> wrote,
perhaps among other things...:


>And of course, on their "Magical Mystery Tour" album, the Beatles managed,
>in the finale to "All You Need Is Love," to insert their own former hit
>"She Love You" as well as an orchestral excerpt from "Greensleeves."

Not to mention the clarinet riff from "In The Mood."

John Hatpin

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 3:56:27 PM11/5/02
to
Paul L. Madarasz wrote:

>On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:19:37 -0600, Estron <est...@tfs.net> wrote,
>perhaps among other things...:
>
>
>>And of course, on their "Magical Mystery Tour" album, the Beatles managed,
>>in the finale to "All You Need Is Love," to insert their own former hit
>>"She Love You" as well as an orchestral excerpt from "Greensleeves."
>
>Not to mention the clarinet riff from "In The Mood."

Them was saxes, Paul.

--
John Hatpin

Paul L. Madarasz

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 4:02:11 PM11/5/02
to
On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:56:27 +0000, John Hatpin
<ag...@brooREMOVEMEkview.karoo.co.uk> wrote, perhaps among other
things...:

>Paul L. Madarasz wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:19:37 -0600, Estron <est...@tfs.net> wrote,
>>perhaps among other things...:
>>
>>
>>>And of course, on their "Magical Mystery Tour" album, the Beatles managed,
>>>in the finale to "All You Need Is Love," to insert their own former hit
>>>"She Love You" as well as an orchestral excerpt from "Greensleeves."
>>
>>Not to mention the clarinet riff from "In The Mood."
>
>Them was saxes, Paul.

Oh, yeah. Well, it was a clarinet on the original, wunnit? (For some
reason, the only version I can think of right now is the Ray Stevens'
version, sung by chickens).

John Hatpin

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 5:49:09 PM11/5/02
to
Paul L. Madarasz wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:56:27 +0000, John Hatpin
><ag...@brooREMOVEMEkview.karoo.co.uk> wrote, perhaps among other
>things...:
>
>>Paul L. Madarasz wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:19:37 -0600, Estron <est...@tfs.net> wrote,
>>>perhaps among other things...:
>>>
>>>
>>>>And of course, on their "Magical Mystery Tour" album, the Beatles managed,
>>>>in the finale to "All You Need Is Love," to insert their own former hit
>>>>"She Love You" as well as an orchestral excerpt from "Greensleeves."
>>>
>>>Not to mention the clarinet riff from "In The Mood."
>>
>>Them was saxes, Paul.
>
>Oh, yeah. Well, it was a clarinet on the original, wunnit? (For some
>reason, the only version I can think of right now is the Ray Stevens'
>version, sung by chickens).

Nah, them was still saxes on the original. Miller often scored the
reeds with a clarinet or two on top, but they don't have the biting
attack you need for a riff like that, so he used an alto sax for the
lead in that case. The famous Glenn Miller clarinet sound is the kind
of thing you hear on the slower stuff ... "String of Pearls", for a
good example.

(Not that I like Glenn Miller. I spent too much time as a kid in a
big band playing his insipid, sugary, pedestrian crap, and not enough
time playing Basie or Goodman or, of course, Ellington)

--
John Hatpin

Gary S. Callison

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 8:05:49 PM11/5/02
to
John Hatpin (ag...@brooREMOVEMEkview.karoo.co.uk) wrote:
: (Not that I like Glenn Miller. I spent too much time as a kid in a

: big band playing his insipid, sugary, pedestrian crap, and not enough
: time playing Basie or Goodman or, of course, Ellington)

I hear this from jazz purists every now and then. The same bash is also
made (undeservedly, in my opinion) on Chuck Mangione and (quite fucking
deservedly) hair-boy Kenny G.

What's wrong with Glenn Miller? Some of that stuff was pretty neat...

--
Huey

GrapeApe

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 8:40:03 PM11/5/02
to
>Nah, them was still saxes on the original. Miller often scored the
>reeds with a clarinet or two on top, but they don't have the biting
>attack you need for a riff like that, so he used an alto sax for the
>lead in that case. The famous Glenn Miller clarinet sound is the kind
>of thing you hear on the slower stuff ... "String of Pearls", for a
>good example.
>
>(Not that I like Glenn Miller. I spent too much time as a kid in a
>big band playing his insipid, sugary, pedestrian crap, and not enough
>time playing Basie or Goodman or, of course, Ellington)

Am I the only person who always gets Glenn Miller confused with Benny Goodman?
They were the two white guys that looked like Steve Allen, no? The other white
man was fat and balding with facial hair.

GrapeApe

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 8:50:50 PM11/5/02
to
>Lost your original post (asking about Satie in "Flying."). It's the
>la-la-la part, from Gymnopaedie #1 (I think).

He who does not attribute (moi), assed that querstion.

I don't see the resemblance, from what I can recall, and find of the Satie I
have. Maybe you have another piece in mind. ( I'm most familiar with Saties
Piano pieces)

John Hatpin

unread,
Nov 5, 2002, 9:18:26 PM11/5/02
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Gary S. Callison wrote:

>John Hatpin (ag...@brooREMOVEMEkview.karoo.co.uk) wrote:
>: (Not that I like Glenn Miller. I spent too much time as a kid in a
>: big band playing his insipid, sugary, pedestrian crap, and not enough
>: time playing Basie or Goodman or, of course, Ellington)
>
>I hear this from jazz purists every now and then. The same bash is also
>made (undeservedly, in my opinion) on Chuck Mangione and (quite fucking
>deservedly) hair-boy Kenny G.

I'm not a purist, Huey. Mangione is borderline jazz, but he did make
some pretty stuff. Kenny G ... bleah. Let his name not cross the
portal of AFCA any more. Unless it's for fun.

>What's wrong with Glenn Miller? Some of that stuff was pretty neat...

A good point. He wasn't bad at all as a dance-band leader, and his
compositions were certainly better than some of the crap that was
going around. But there was a hell of a lot of other stuff that was
much better.

The way I understand it is this: Miller was white, and most of the big
band leaders were black. He was usually photographed in uniform (this
was WWII, remember), and this was a good PR stunt for your military
guys. People back home could see a picture of GM and feel the vibes
of the white military machine doing its stuff in Europe and the
Pacific Theater (your spelling). Remember, black GIs here didn't even
get issued live ammo unless there was a German pointing a gun at them

Miller was the clean-jawed, white-faced poster-boy musician of WWII,
and it helped that he had a high-carb sound to pacify and dull the
minds of the population. But, he was the best clean-jawed,
white-faced poster-boy musician of his time, which perhaps deserves
some, very small, credit.

Look on the bright side: Duke Ellington didn't get killed in any weird
aeroplane crashes, and continued producing superb music until he died
in 1974. If Glenn Miller had survived, and carried on playing that
glucose-filled music, you'd have had to separate the people with big
spoons and rinse them under the faucet until they were no longer
sticky. Fate works that way.

--
John Hatpin

John Hatpin

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Nov 5, 2002, 9:26:40 PM11/5/02
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GrapeApe wrote:

No, you're not alone - maybe it's the spectacles. Also, I'm probably
in an extreme minority in that I don't really like Benny Goodman's
playing that much. It's too ... sort of rooty-tooty. He had a hell
of a band, though. Wow.

I heard a bit of Peggy Lee singing today on a radio quiz (the question
was "who's the singer?", and she was singing with the Goodman
orchestra, probably late 40s), and it was superb right up until the
moment when Benny G put his clarinet in his mouth. Then it was the
1920s all over again again. Damn.

--
John Hatpin

GrapeApe

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Nov 5, 2002, 9:42:58 PM11/5/02
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>Then it was the
>1920s all over again again. Damn.

and what is wrong with that?

When music went from vinyl to CD, nothing made me more sick than the only music
you could find at all in the format for several years that was written before
1955, that was not classical, was big band. Big Band this Big Band that. Hell,
the entire 20th century was crawling with great pop music, from combos to a
field hand with a guitar.

Hank Gillette

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Nov 5, 2002, 10:39:57 PM11/5/02
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In article <66lbsusplommgta6v...@preview.giganews.com>,
Shalom Septimus <drug...@p0b0x.c0m> wrote:

> >The Beach Boys nearly got sued over "Surfin' USA" whose melody is very
> >close to "Sweet Little Sixteen".
>
> Which is why the writer's credit says "Berry/Wilson", no?

Yep, that was the settlement.

--
Hank Gillette

Hank Gillette

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Nov 5, 2002, 11:41:09 PM11/5/02
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In article <20021105204003...@mb-mc.aol.com>,
grap...@aol.comjunk (GrapeApe) wrote:

> Am I the only person who always gets Glenn Miller confused with Benny
> Goodman? They were the two white guys that looked like Steve Allen, no?
> The other white man was fat and balding with facial hair.

Steve Allen played Goodman in "The Benny Goodman Story". Miller was
played by Jimmy Stewart in "The Glenn Miller Story".

--
Hank Gillette

kay w

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Nov 6, 2002, 1:00:45 AM11/6/02
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Previously, Grape said:

>Am I the only person who always gets Glenn Miller confused with Benny
>Goodman?
>They were the two white guys that looked like Steve Allen, no?

Glen Miller looked like Jimmy Stewart. Benny Goodman looked like Steve Allen.
Gene Krupa looked like Sal Mineo. Interestingly, Cole Porter looked like Cary
Grant, but Monty Wooley looked like himself.


--
kay w
Address munged. AOL isn't necessarily comatose, evidence to the contrary not
withstanding.


Jerry Bauer

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Nov 6, 2002, 3:21:55 AM11/6/02
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On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:05:49 -0800, Gary S. Callison wrote
(in message <NVZx9.3550$3J4.3...@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net>):

...songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us, we had it made.
Those were the days.

--
Jerry Randal Bauer

Marie Martinek

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Nov 7, 2002, 5:13:08 PM11/7/02
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In article <fcd1f4e4.02110...@posting.google.com>, art...@yahoo.com (artyw) wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Some friends of mine (called The Black Book Band) have a couple of
>> "morphed" songs they do, the only one of which I can right now recall is
>> "Madman Along the Watchtower", which is a sort of dialog between "All Along
>> the Watchtower" and "Madman Across the Water".
>
>Is that something like "Stairway to Gilligan's Island?

Actually, each song is played with its own tune. They just intermingle, and
converse, and sometimes play over each other sort of like a "catch".

Of course, Barry Childs-Helton (1 of the 5 members) also wrote "Stairway to
Fandom", which BBB has performed... And they've arranged a real kick-ass
hard-rock version of "Hope Eyrie".

(Everybody but Estron is now saying "wha?")

--
Marie Martinek
Northwestern University
Evanston, IL, USA

Brett Bayne

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Nov 7, 2002, 7:44:16 PM11/7/02
to
I am not aware of another song that does
this exact thing, but Jimmy Webb recorded
"Three Songs" -- "Never My Love," "I Wanna
Be Free" and "Let it Be Me" -- in a version
that combines all three simultaneously,
with overlapping chords. It's actually amazing
how they fit together seamlessly. Jimmy sings
the first two; vocals on "Let it Be Me" are
handled by his sister, Susan. It's a gorgeous
recording, available on his best-of CD. Check
it out.


Brett
-----------------
They tell me I'm a fool, but I don't hear a word
Because the last thing you said was the last thing I heard.

GrapeApe

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Nov 7, 2002, 8:26:13 PM11/7/02
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>I am not aware of another song that does
>this exact thing, but Jimmy Webb recorded
>"Three Songs" -- "Never My Love," "I Wanna
>Be Free" and "Let it Be Me" -- in a version
>that combines all three simultaneously,
>with overlapping chords. It's actually amazing
>how they fit together seamlessly. Jimmy sings
>the first two; vocals on "Let it Be Me" are
>handled by his sister, Susan. It's a gorgeous
>recording, available on his best-of CD. Check
>it out.

I can't point to any particular recordings but this is often done with
traditional songs, probably something being sung over Greensleeves somewhere.
I think offhand I remember us doing Row Row Row your boat and Frere Jacque
simultaneously in kiddygardener.

Briar Rose

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Nov 8, 2002, 10:27:19 AM11/8/02
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extrapoopie <extra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"David J. Martin" <david-j...@tamu.edu> wrote in message
>> Hootie and the Blowfish borrowed a verse from Dylan's "Idiot Wind" for
>> their "Only want to be with you". I think Dylan's people said "stole"
>> instead of borrowed. The Blowfish claimed homage. I don't remember how
>> it came out.
>
>There's a David Gray song that borrows a line from Van Morrison's "Into the
>Mystic". It's "We were born before the wind.". Good songs, both of them.

Coil's "Love's Secret Domain" borrows heavily from
Roy Orbison's "In Dreams" lyric.


:) Connie-Lynne
--
If you know you can take care of a goat, you can go ahead, but
I won't recommend it as a pet. A dog, you can leave at home;
if you leave a goat somewhere, people will look at it like,
"what is that goat doing here?" -- Nicole, "the N"

Briar Rose

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Nov 8, 2002, 10:56:59 AM11/8/02
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Dutch Courage of Horror <mutigho...@aol.comsquatron> wrote:
> No, not really. But the theme does sound a lot like a slower version of a song
>by the Beastie Boys called "Girls."

No discussion of sampling would be complete if it didn't
mention _Paul's Boutique_ by the Beasties.

Or, say, the way the entire late 70s early 80s funk genre
(now called "old school") wouldn't exist if they hadn't had
Kraftwerk around to sample. Or the hundreds of disco-funk
bands. Although since they were taking analog samples by
hand most of the time, I dunno if you want to call it sampling
so much as mixing. Whatever you called it, it was good.

Or Will Smith, who may not have to cuss to sell records,
but would be lost without disco samples.

There used to be bigass databases out on the web that showed
lists of most-sampled albums and who sampled 'em, Brettster.

:) Connie-"play at your own risk"-Lynne

Barbara

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Nov 8, 2002, 12:23:04 PM11/8/02
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>> All You Need Is Love borrows from *two* songs.
>> It begins with the first few notes from the La Marseillaise.
>> It ends with the chorus from She Loves You.
>
"Tunnel of Love" by Dire Straits starts off with the theme music from
"Carousel."


Barbara -

"I've got something inside me
Not what my life's about
Cause I've been letting my outside tide me
Over 'til my time runs out."

Taxi
Harry Chapin


Brett Bayne

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Nov 8, 2002, 12:54:19 PM11/8/02
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> There used to be bigass databases out on
> the web that showed lists of most-sampled
> albums and who sampled 'em, Brettster.

Connie,

Was it me you meant to tell this to? I mean,
it's interesting, but I think I'm the incorrect
recipient of the info.

Margaret Kane

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Nov 8, 2002, 2:13:47 PM11/8/02
to

"GrapeApe" <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote in message
news:20021107202613...@mb-fn.aol.com...

Report from the field (ahem):
In "Sesame Street: Kids Favorite Songs" Telly Monster does this with
"Twinkle Twinkle Little Star," "The Alphabet Song," and "Baa, Baa, Black
Sheep."

Margaret "better than Barney" Kane Schoen


Margaret Kane

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Nov 8, 2002, 2:15:50 PM11/8/02
to

"Barbara" <accident...@aol.compuserve> wrote in message
news:20021108122304...@mb-fb.aol.com...

> >> All You Need Is Love borrows from *two* songs.
> >> It begins with the first few notes from the La Marseillaise.
> >> It ends with the chorus from She Loves You.
> >
> "Tunnel of Love" by Dire Straits starts off with the theme music from
> "Carousel."
>
The "1812 Overture" includes La Marseillaise and The Tsarist National Anthem
(also knows as the U of Penn alma mater).

Margaret


Dana Carpender

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Nov 8, 2002, 2:44:35 PM11/8/02
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Also snatches of a hymn that appears in the Episcopal hymnal, with
lyrics starting "God the omnipotent/King who ordainest/Thunder thy
clarion/The lightening thy sword -- which, for all I know, may be sung
to the melody of the Tsarist National Anthem.

--
Dana W."Quite certain it's not the Marseillaise..." Carpender
Author, How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet -- And Lost Forty Pounds!
NEW! 500 Low-Carb Recipes
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Check out our FREE Low Carb Ezine!

chris greville

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Nov 8, 2002, 2:30:25 PM11/8/02
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"Margaret Kane" <margar...@cnet.com> wrote in message
news:aqh2hc$a37t6$1...@ID-92687.news.dfncis.de...

>
> >
> The "1812 Overture" includes La Marseillaise and The Tsarist National
Anthem
> (also knows as the U of Penn alma mater).

The 1812 is on one of the Pet Shop Boys hits.

Chris " On my mind?" Greville


John Hatpin

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Nov 8, 2002, 3:28:40 PM11/8/02
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Barbara wrote:

>>> All You Need Is Love borrows from *two* songs.
>>> It begins with the first few notes from the La Marseillaise.
>>> It ends with the chorus from She Loves You.
>>
>"Tunnel of Love" by Dire Straits starts off with the theme music from
>"Carousel."

"Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits starts off with an echo of the
chorus of "Don't Stand So Close To Me" by the Police, even unto Sting
singing the vocals on the DS recording (and, later, guesting in some
live performances simply to sing that bit). The words are changed,
however, from "don't stand so close to me" to "I want my MTV".

Maybe y'all knew that already, but I don't know if either song reached
Leftpondia.

--
John Hatpin

Robert Goodman

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Nov 8, 2002, 5:52:54 PM11/8/02
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"Margaret Kane" <margar...@cnet.com> wrote in message
news:aqh2hc$a37t6$1...@ID-92687.news.dfncis.de...

> The "1812 Overture" includes La Marseillaise and The Tsarist National


Anthem
> (also knows as the U of Penn alma mater).

Well, sure, because it's an overture. It's traditional for overtures to
contain parts of the music from the rest of the play.

chris greville

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Nov 8, 2002, 6:52:05 PM11/8/02
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"chris greville" <chrisg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aqh3m6$r2t$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...

Beg pardon, that's the Marseillaise, not the 1812.

Chris " Big Bang" Greville


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