Jewish vs. goyish
rob...@bestweb.net
am right now.
shell.bestweb.net doesn't respondright now to a dial-in, but will still
answer a valid login via Telnet. One of the things I like is the "fortune"
you get whenever you log in. A recent one quoted Arthur Naiman quoting
Lenny Bruce on Jewish vs. goyish:
"I'm Jewish. Count Basie's Jewish. Ray Charles is Jewish. Eddie Cantor's
goyish. The B'nai Brith is goyish. The Hadassah is Jewish. Marine Corps
-- heavy goyish, dangerous."
I remember from another version of Lenny Bruce on this topic that the Army
is also goyish, as is the Navy, but that the Air Force is Jewish.
"Kool-Aid is goyish. All Drake's Cakes are goyish. Pumpernickel is Jewish
and, as you know, white bread is very goyish. Instant potatoes -- goyish.
Black cherry soda's very Jewish. Macaroons are very Jewish. Fruit salad is
Jewish. Lime Jell-O is goyish. Lime soda is very goyish. Trailer parks
are so goyish that Jews won't go near them."
Have we in this group ever classified the world this way? Let's get on with
it, but remember, in stating your opinion, don't try to give reasons for one
judgement or the other. Things are just Jewish or goyish on their face, and
you can disagree, but shout about it only, don't actually argue.
It occurs to me that although most Judaism is at least somewhat Jewish, the
Orthodox collectively are goyish, and Hassidim are very goyish. Most
Catholic laity are goyish, but the Catholic clergy are Jewish. The Pope is
extremely Jewish. Even the antisemitic popes were substantially Jewish.
Jesuits are about as Jewish as a religious order can get. OTOH, Identity is
goyish in the extreme; they only THINK they're Jewish.
As Bruce said, the Navy is goyish (probably even more so than the Army), and
I'm sure that goes for the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine too. However,
Popeye is Jewish, although Bluto is about as goyish as it gets. Still,
spinach is goyish.
Yes, Lenny Bruce was Jewish, and I'm sure Jean Shepherd was goyish. Jackie
Mason is goyish passing as Jewish, while Jackie Vernon was Jewish passing as
goyish. Jackie Gleason was goyish. Jackie Martling I'm not sure about.
Coin collecting is Jewish, stamp collecting goyish.
Robert
Boron Elgar
>
>shell.bestweb.net doesn't respondright now to a dial-in, but will still
>answer a valid login via Telnet. One of the things I like is the "fortune"
>you get whenever you log in. A recent one quoted Arthur Naiman quoting
>Lenny Bruce on Jewish vs. goyish:
>
>"I'm Jewish. Count Basie's Jewish. Ray Charles is Jewish. Eddie Cantor's
>goyish. The B'nai Brith is goyish. The Hadassah is Jewish. Marine Corps
>-- heavy goyish, dangerous."
>
Chinese food is Jewish.
Tex-Mex is goyishe.
Boron
Mirhanda Sarko
I don't understand this conversation at all. Why are you classifying these
the way you are? What are the criteria you use? How can anything Catholic
be jewish? And wouldn't Jerry Falwell (::hack, patooie::) be goyish?
Although, I find it offensive that he could fall under *any* classification
that I would also be in!
Mirhanda
--
Decapitate my addy to email me
I know who you are!! You are the character who occasionally appears in the
comic strip "Sylvia", as "The Woman Who Does Everything More Beautifully
Than You Do".
Les, speaking of me, in alt.fan.cecil-adams
Robin Colleen Moore
Butter is Jewish, Crisco is goyishe...I learned this back in 1985 as the
sole shiksa living w/3 Brandeis grads (who referred to their alma mater
as "Jew U"); and the at-the-time most sensitive about her ethnic
identity would frequently remind me that she's never lived with a
non-Jew before, and make snarky comments about my "goyishe grease"
whenever she saw me using Crisco...her mother, you see, used butter.
(Then again, her family was Connecticut comfy middle class, whereas my
family was New Hampshire backwoods working class with middle class
educational aspirations, so economics played a BIG role...says the woman
who ate white sauce on toast way too many times during her childhood. I
didn't know until I was in my 20s that real milk toast was a whole
'nother dish...)
Amusingly enough, while I was living in the South, a *lot* of people
assumed I was Jewish, and were surprised to learn otherwise. I
initially assumed most of these people took once look, saw "short,
plump, curly dark hair, obvious northeastern accent" and assumed
"Jewish", but an awful lot of Jews assumed I was a member of the
tribe...I thought I'd seen the last of that when I left Athens, until
the day in Coolidge Corner (in Brookline, a heavily Jewish city in metro
Boston) when I was accosted by 2 different Orthodox gentlement who were
all set to harangue me for not being home and celebrating the Sabbath
properly until I set them straight. Hmmm...
Robin the mad photographer (can you say "Jewish by osmosis"?)
Black Sheep Studios, Cambridge, MA -ro...@mindspring.com
Brownie Yenta/Heater Shirt Queen/Minor Net Goddess
"Fortunately, Robin has never asked anyone to kill for her
brownies. She's very sweet that way."--Aimee Lortskell
Boron Elgar
(Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>Kalk...@bwu.edu (Boron Elgar) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>>On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:29:42 GMT, rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>shell.bestweb.net doesn't respondright now to a dial-in, but will still
>>>answer a valid login via Telnet. One of the things I like is the
>>>"fortune" you get whenever you log in. A recent one quoted Arthur
>>>Naiman quoting Lenny Bruce on Jewish vs. goyish:
>>>
>>>"I'm Jewish. Count Basie's Jewish. Ray Charles is Jewish. Eddie
>>>Cantor's goyish. The B'nai Brith is goyish. The Hadassah is Jewish.
>>>Marine Corps -- heavy goyish, dangerous."
>>>
>>Chinese food is Jewish.
>>Tex-Mex is goyishe.
>
>
>I don't understand this conversation at all. Why are you classifying these
>the way you are? What are the criteria you use? How can anything Catholic
>be jewish? And wouldn't Jerry Falwell (::hack, patooie::) be goyish?
>Although, I find it offensive that he could fall under *any* classification
>that I would also be in!
People like Falwell do, indeed, defy classification. In fact, I can't
think of any humourous way I could refer to him.
Let's see if more examples can help, as I am not sure this can be
explained with any further meaning...
The Irish & the Italians are Jewish.
The Scandanvians the Belgians are goyishe.
How about more, Rob...and Bill..where are you on this one?
Boron
Lalbert1
azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) writes:
>Kalk...@bwu.edu (Boron Elgar) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>>On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:29:42 GMT, rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>shell.bestweb.net doesn't respondright now to a dial-in, but will still
>>>answer a valid login via Telnet. One of the things I like is the
>>>"fortune" you get whenever you log in. A recent one quoted Arthur
>>>Naiman quoting Lenny Bruce on Jewish vs. goyish:
>>>
>>>"I'm Jewish. Count Basie's Jewish. Ray Charles is Jewish. Eddie
>>>Cantor's goyish. The B'nai Brith is goyish. The Hadassah is Jewish.
>>>Marine Corps -- heavy goyish, dangerous."
>>>
>>Chinese food is Jewish.
>>Tex-Mex is goyishe.
>
>
>I don't understand this conversation at all. Why are you classifying these
>the way you are? What are the criteria you use? How can anything Catholic
>be jewish? And wouldn't Jerry Falwell (::hack, patooie::) be goyish?
>Although, I find it offensive that he could fall under *any* classification
>that I would also be in!
Forgetaboutit. It would take an upbringing in places like New York or Chicago
before you could understand the nuances of the classification. It's not meant
to be offensive, or anti-religion, or an "in" joke. It's just a humorous
concept of how these things are viewed by some people. For instance, do you
have any thoughts about the kind of people who order a corned beef sandwich on
white bread with mayonaisse? What do you think; is it Jewish or Goyish?
Les
Rick B.
Show biz is Jewish. Wall Street is goyish.
Sports are basically goyish, but baseball is a little less goyish than
most.
Mah jongg is Jewish. Computer mah jongg is goyish.
Vegas and Atlantic City are Jewish. Riverboat casinos are goyish.
Canasta is Jewish. Texas Hold 'Em is goyish.
Farming is goyish. This does not explain why the most rural, most goyish
part of deep South Jersey contains hamlets called Rosenhayn and
Brotmanville.
Deli sandwiches are Jewish. Fast food is goyish.
The concept of the all-you-can-eat buffet is Jewish, but at most of them
the food is strictly goyish.
Being minimalist, in any sense, is goyish.
Complaining is Jewish. Suffering in silence is goyish, unless you make a
point of telling someone that you're going to suffer in silence. Then
it's Jewish.
Outlet malls are goyish. 60% off at a department store is Jewish.
(Department stores in general are Jewish; discount stores can be Jewish,
but Wal-Marts are as goyish as it gets and K marts aren't much less so.)
Grandparents are Jewish. Teenagers are goyish.
Rick B., who was thought to be Jewish in high school but wasn't
Mirhanda Sarko
>
>The Irish & the Italians are Jewish.
>The Scandanvians the Belgians are goyishe.
I thought the Irish and the Italians were mostly Catholic. ?!?
Mirhanda Sarko
I have NO idea. I'd eat corned beef on a nice French roll with mustard.
But how can someone's personal taste about what they eat indicate their
religion? I know some religions forbid the ingestion of certain foods, but
there are those who don't like those foods who are not of those religions,
so you can't make a judgement just because of what they eat or don't eat.
Seems like you're equating Jewishness with "good" and "Goyishness" with
"bad".
Boron Elgar
(Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>Kalk...@bwu.edu (Boron Elgar) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>>
>>The Irish & the Italians are Jewish.
>>The Scandanvians the Belgians are goyishe.
>
>I thought the Irish and the Italians were mostly Catholic. ?!?
My love, when this suddenly hits you, you're gonna go "d'oh!"
It has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. It's one big joke about
chucking everything into the world into one of two classifications. It
is done lightheartedly, with no religious overtones intended.
Oy...I wish you were sitting here right now with me. I'd have you
laughing about it in a minute. We'd have coffee & a piece of cake.
Cake is Jewish...pie is goyish, by the way.
Boron
Brian Cubbison
In article <9044D860Bazzi...@216.76.202.110>,
azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>
> I have NO idea. I'd eat corned beef on a nice French roll with mustard.
> But how can someone's personal taste about what they eat indicate their
> religion? I know some religions forbid the ingestion of certain foods, but
> there are those who don't like those foods who are not of those religions,
> so you can't make a judgement just because of what they eat or don't eat.
>
> Seems like you're equating Jewishness with "good" and "Goyishness" with
> "bad".
>
> Mirhanda
May I take a stab at this, Mirhanda? It's mostly a social and cultural riff
that's not supposed to be historically accurate.
Jewish = ethnic foods, thick dark bread, urban neighborhoods, big boisterous
immigrant families at the holidays, Filene's Basement, fish markets, street
carnivals, marrying a doctor, and many more stereotypes, no matter what the
actual religion.
Goyish= mayonnaise, white bread, subdivisions, white trash and WASPs, Kmart
and Wal-Mart, roadside produce stands, county fairs, marrying the owner of
the hardware store, and more heartland stereotypes.
Brian Cubbison
Syracuse, NY
Rick B.
It's a lot of stuff rolled up together, but the biggest parts are a
knowledge of and respect for texture and nuance and tradition and
family, and a degree of intelligence, and an attitude of suspicion
toward new stuff that may not be any better than the old stuff (just
more expensive and complicated), and a certain forthrightness in speech.
And never paying full retail.
And it's almost entirely a cultural thing with nothing to do with
religious practice.
Stay with us, and maybe we can make this clear.
Rick B.
Mirhanda Sarko
Oh, I get it. Anything warm and loving and fun is Jewish, while everything
cold and sterile and boring is people like me. Yes, I'm only too afraid
that I do get it.
Mirhanda (whose Catholic husband has a boisterous, immigrant family, and
whose Grandmother married a doctor)
Mirhanda Sarko
So, yes...you're saying Jewish=GOOD THINGS IN LIFE, people who aren't
Jewish, like me,=BAD THINGS IN LIFE.
Yes, it's quite clear.
Mirhanda, finally saddened by something she read in afca...prejudice
Lalbert1
azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) writes:
No, "good" and "bad" do not enter into it. And it doesn't have to do with
indicating a persons religion. And it doesn't have to do with Jewishness being
good and Goyishness being bad; that's possibly the slant *you* are putting on
it.
That is why I said originally, "Forgetaboutit", and "it's just a humorous
concept of how these things are viewed by some people". That's all it is; a
humorous concept. It's nothing sinister, or hateful, or biased. I think it's
impossible to put into words to explain it (I can't find the words to explain
it to you, maybe someone else can).
Les
(sometimes they don't laugh)
kay w
Brian:
>>Jewish = ethnic foods, thick dark bread, urban neighborhoods, big
>>boisterous immigrant families at the holidays, Filene's Basement, fish
>>markets, street carnivals, marrying a doctor, and many more
>>stereotypes, no matter what the actual religion.
>>
>>Goyish= mayonnaise, white bread, subdivisions, white trash and WASPs,
>>Kmart and Wal-Mart, roadside produce stands, county fairs, marrying the
>>owner of the hardware store, and more heartland stereotypes.
>
Mirhanda:
>Oh, I get it. Anything warm and loving and fun is Jewish, while everything
>cold and sterile and boring is people like me. Yes, I'm only too afraid
>that I do get it.
Um, Mirhanda, you might be taking this a tad too seriously. On the other hand,
if we're gonna be overly sensitive about this, I guess I'll object to your
classifying "mayonnaise, white bread, subdivisions, white trash and WASPs,
Kmart and Wal-Mart, roadside produce stands, county fairs, marrying the owner
of the hardware store, and more heartland stereotypes" as "cold and sterile
and boring."
On a spectrum of Jewish-to-goyish, these things are well on the goy end of
things; *you*, however, are the one assigning "good" versus "bad" values, and I
haven't noticed anyone else doing that.
Atlanta - goyish; Miami - Jewish.
kay w
Address munged. AOL isn't necessarily comatose, evidence to the contrary not
withstanding.
Stan
wrote:
>My love, when this suddenly hits you, you're gonna go "d'oh!"
Getting this is Jewish. Not getting it is Goyish.
--
Stan in NJ
http://www.thecore.com/~szelek/
Jerry Bauer
Jerry Bauer
Traditional Southern Women are goyische. However, they are (at least
mine is) warm and loving and fun, and certainly not cold, sterile or
boring.
This is a silly game. It is no more sensical than assigning humours
to things: rivers are sanguine, clouds choleric, lakes bilious, and
rain melancholic. There is no intention in it of assigning goodness
or badness. It pokes ridicule at stereotypes by being ridiculous
about extending those stereotypes beyond their bounds. Assigning
"Jewishness" or "Goyischness" to things is Jewish. Arguing endlessly
about those assignments is Jewish. Is not. Is, too. I-if it is
Jewish, the-en it cannot be Goyische. Can, so. Can not. Yes, it
can, by parts.
Jerry Randal Bauer
ctc...@my-deja.com
azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
> Kalk...@bwu.edu (Boron Elgar) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
> >
> >The Irish & the Italians are Jewish.
> >The Scandanvians the Belgians are goyishe.
>
> I thought the Irish and the Italians were mostly Catholic. ?!?
They are loud and complain a lot, and hang out in huge families even
when most of the members hate each other. That's jewish. And
don't forget the mafia.
Xho
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
ctc...@my-deja.com
azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
> >
> >Goyish= mayonnaise, white bread, subdivisions, white trash and WASPs,
> >Kmart and Wal-Mart, roadside produce stands, county fairs, marrying
the
> >owner of the hardware store, and more heartland stereotypes.
>
> Oh, I get it. Anything warm and loving and fun is Jewish, while
everything
> cold and sterile and boring is people like me.
You seem to be suffering from some terrible guilt that makes you
think county fairs and marrying the owner of the hardware store
and roadside produces stands are somehow sterile and cold and boring.
Such levels of guilt definitely make you jewish, anything else
notwithstanding.
Brian Cubbison
In article <lpph6.13281$1%2.68...@sjc-read.news.verio.net>,
ba...@shell3.ba.best.com (Jerry Bauer) wrote:
> Traditional Southern Women are goyische. However, they are (at least
> mine is) warm and loving and fun, and certainly not cold, sterile or
> boring.
For Mirhanda's sake, let's try this again.
Corn on the cob, bluegrass, pickup trucks, volunteer fire departments, state
universities, Ohio, Little League, Charles Lindbergh, peanut butter and
jelly, Norman Rockwell, Andrew and all the other Wyeths, including the one
who invented the plastic soda bottle, pop instead of soda, lawns, basketball
hoops in driveways, driveways, outhouses with crescents in the doors...
Jewish or Goyish? Bad or good?
Brian Cubbison
Syracuse, NY
Mirhanda Sarko
Well, it's obviously *NOT* Jewish. If Irish and Italian *CATHOLICS*
(which, last time I checked was a Christian denomination) do it, then it's
NOT restricted to Jewish people.
Mirhanda, of Irish extraction
Mirhanda Sarko
>
As for the objects you mention, objects don't have religion, they are
inanimate, thus don't worship a deity. If you are referring to who uses
them, I would suppose that both religions have used them at some point in
history.
As for the people, I don't know what their religion was. Nor do I really
care.
Mirhanda, very saddened to see such extremely prejudiced views in afca not
being LOUDLY shouted down.
Mirhanda Sarko
Sorry, not Jewish. I was brought up protestant, converted to Wicca (which
turned out to be sadly disillusioning) and am now considering converting to
Catholicism, which is at least stable.
Mirhanda
Brian Cubbison
In article <9045730Aazziz...@216.76.202.110>,
azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>>Corn on the cob, bluegrass, pickup trucks, volunteer fire departments,
>>state universities, Ohio, Little League, Charles Lindbergh, peanut
>>butter and jelly, Norman Rockwell, Andrew and all the other Wyeths,
>>including the one who invented the plastic soda bottle, pop instead of
>>soda, lawns, basketball hoops in driveways, driveways, outhouses with
>>crescents in the doors...
>
>
> As for the objects you mention, objects don't have religion, they are
> inanimate, thus don't worship a deity. If you are referring to who uses
> them, I would suppose that both religions have used them at some point in
> history.
>
>
> As for the people, I don't know what their religion was. Nor do I really
> care.
>
> Mirhanda, very saddened to see such extremely prejudiced views in afca not
> being LOUDLY shouted down.
It's a wry and rye celebration of cultures. It's a celebration of corn on
the cob and thick dark bread, of volunteer fire departments and big family
holidays, of basketball hoops in the driveways and stickball in the streets,
kvetching and bellyaching, of ebony and irony... I think I'll stop now.
Brian Cubbison
Syracuse, NY
Mirhanda Sarko
>
>It's a wry and rye celebration of cultures. It's a celebration of corn
>on the cob and thick dark bread, of volunteer fire departments and big
>family holidays, of basketball hoops in the driveways and stickball in
>the streets, kvetching and bellyaching, of ebony and irony... I think
>I'll stop now.
So only Jews are allowed to enjoy "thick, dark bread"??? Hell's bell's
I've *MADE* "thick, dark bread" with my own two hands. Oh, I'm not Jewish.
Mirhanda, sick of this crap
Mirhanda Sarko
To show you all how this appears, I'm changing the two words "Jewish" and
"Goyish" to something else.
>Show biz is White. Wall Street is niggerish.
>Sports are basically niggerish, but baseball is a little less niggerish
than
>most.
>Mah jongg is White. Computer mah jongg is niggerish.
>Vegas and Atlantic City are White. Riverboat casinos are niggerish.
>Canasta is White. Texas Hold 'Em is niggerish.
>Farming is niggerish. This does not explain why the most rural, most
niggerish
>part of deep South Jersey contains hamlets called Rosenhayn and
>Brotmanville.
>Deli sandwiches are white. Fast food is niggerish.
>The concept of the all-you-can-eat buffet is white, but at most of them
>the food is strictly niggerish.
>Being minimalist, in any sense, is niggerish.
>Complaining is white. Suffering in silence is niggerish, unless you make a
>point of telling someone that you're going to suffer in silence. Then
>it's white.
>Outlet malls are niggerish. 60% off at a department store is white.
>(Department stores in general are white; discount stores can be white,
>but Wal-Marts are as niggerish as it gets and K marts aren't much less
so.)
>Grandparents are white. Teenagers are niggerish.
>
>Rick B., who was thought to be white in high school but wasn't
rob...@bestweb.net
>>classifying >>these the way you are? What are the criteria you
>>use? How can >>anything Catholic be jewish? And wouldn't Jerry
>>Falwell (::hack, >>patooie::) be goyish? Although, I find it
>>offensive that he could fall >>under *any* classification that I
>>would also be in! >
>> I have NO idea. I'd eat corned beef on a nice French roll with
>>mustard. But how can someone's personal taste about what they eat
>>indicate their religion? I know some religions forbid the
>>ingestion of certain foods, but there are those who don't like
>>those foods who are not of those religions, so you can't make a
>judgement just because of what they eat or don't eat. >
>> Seems like you're equating Jewishness with "good" and
>>"Goyishness" with "bad".
I knew I'd get reactions like that, which is why I said there should be no
argument about the classifications, just claims. Suffice it to say that it
has nothing really to do with religion, nor with goodness or badness per se.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
>So, yes...you're saying Jewish=GOOD THINGS IN LIFE, people who
>aren't Jewish, like me,=BAD THINGS IN LIFE.
>Yes, it's quite clear.
>Mirhanda, finally saddened by something she read in afca...prejudice
>--
I figured someone might react like that if, as I feared, someone tried to
explain these things.
When I listed Jewish and goyish things, I listed several goyish things or
people I like and prefer to some Jewish things. I'm not sure whether I'm
more Jewish or goyish myself.
However, I think threads like this are Jewish. Mirhanda's reaction is
highly Jewish.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
>Getting this is Jewish. Not getting it is Goyish.
>Stan in NJ
>--
But getting ostentatiously offended by it is Jewish. And standing up for
those who are offended by it is even more Jewish.
rob...@bestweb.net
note that:
>Grandparents are Jewish. Teenagers are goyish.
My friend Nadine notes that all people if they get old enough eventally
become Jewish -- or at least that's how they're portrayed dramatically. It
seems impossible to play the role of a stereotypic old person without
appearing Jewish.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
>I thought the Irish and the Italians were mostly Catholic. ?!?
Yes, but that doesn't stop many of them from being Jewish. And as I noted,
while Catholic laity, on average worldwide, is probably mostly goyish,
Catholic clergy is overwhelmingly Jewish. Jesuits are supremely Jewish.
Robert
Tales to Dutch Courage
>deep...@sprynet.com (Rick B.) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>To show you all how this appears, I'm changing the two words "Jewish" and
>"Goyish" to something else.
Okay.
>
>>Show biz is White. Wall Street is niggerish.
No, show biz is niggerish, Wall street is white.
>>Sports are basically niggerish, but baseball is a little less niggerish
Basketball is probably the most niggerish sport, but tennis and golf and
hockey are very white.
>>Mah jongg is White. Computer mah jongg is niggerish.
Both of those things are white. Spades, euchere and dominos are niggerish.
>>Vegas and Atlantic City are White. Riverboat casinos are niggerish.
>>Canasta is White. Texas Hold 'Em is niggerish.
These all sound pretty white.
>>Farming is niggerish. This does not explain why the most rural, most
>niggerish
>>part of deep South Jersey contains hamlets called Rosenhayn and
>>Brotmanville.
Who knows?
>>Deli sandwiches are white. Fast food is niggerish.
>>The concept of the all-you-can-eat buffet is white, but at most of them
>>the food is strictly niggerish.
>>Being minimalist, in any sense, is niggerish.
>>Complaining is white. Suffering in silence is niggerish, unless you make a
>>point of telling someone that you're going to suffer in silence. Then
>>it's white.
Complaining is niggerish. Complaining in rhyme or otherwise colorfully is
extra niggerish. Complaining about people who complain is white.
>>Grandparents are white. Teenagers are niggerish.
>>
>>Rick B., who was thought to be white in high school but wasn't
See, Mirhanda, you messed up by making the relatively soulful, cool things
"white."
"While Iron Man, all jets ablaze, he fights and fights with repulsor rays"
Tales to Dutch Courage
>ctc...@my-deja.com wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>>In article <9044D51D8azzi...@216.76.202.110>,
>> azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>>> Kalk...@bwu.edu (Boron Elgar) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >The Irish & the Italians are Jewish.
>>> >The Scandanvians the Belgians are goyishe.
>>>
>>> I thought the Irish and the Italians were mostly Catholic. ?!?
>>
>>They are loud and complain a lot, and hang out in huge families even
>>when most of the members hate each other. That's jewish. And
>>don't forget the mafia.
>
>Well, it's obviously *NOT* Jewish. If Irish and Italian *CATHOLICS*
>(which, last time I checked was a Christian denomination) do it, then it's
>NOT restricted to Jewish people.
Catholicism is Jewish, protestantism is goyishe, except maybe for the
anglicans.
Tales to Dutch Courage
>
>Atlanta - goyish; Miami - Jewish.
Ehh, I dunno, Atlanta is a very black city, and blacks are very Jewish. Terra
Haute, on the other hand, is goyishe.
Tales to Dutch Courage
>bcub...@twcny.rr.com (Brian Cubbison) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>>
>>It's a wry and rye celebration of cultures. It's a celebration of corn
>>on the cob and thick dark bread, of volunteer fire departments and big
>>family holidays, of basketball hoops in the driveways and stickball in
>>the streets, kvetching and bellyaching, of ebony and irony... I think
>>I'll stop now.
>
>So only Jews are allowed to enjoy "thick, dark bread"???
No, people who enjoy "thick, dark bread" are Jewish. If you dig spongy white
bread, you're goyishe.
> Hell's bell's
>I've *MADE* "thick, dark bread" with my own two hands.
That's pretty Jewish, the "my own two hands!"
>. Oh, I'm not Jewish.
Well, you kind of are, the way the term is being used here. On the other hand,
being outside the loop and square is goyishe.
>
>Mirhanda, sick of this crap
JmG
>I thought the Irish and the Italians were mostly Catholic. ?!?
Shared misery and kvetching are very Jewish.
Taiwanese Buddhists are Jewish, too.
J
Stan
>Atlanta - goyish; Miami - Jewish.
>
>
>kay w
>
>Address munged. AOL isn't necessarily comatose, evidence to the contrary not
>withstanding.
>
AOL is definitely goyish.
JmG
>Atlanta - goyish; Miami - Jewish.
Oh god, yes.
J
JmG
>As for the objects you mention, objects don't have religion, they are
>inanimate, thus don't worship a deity. If you are referring to who uses
>them, I would suppose that both religions have used them at some point in
>history.
Mirhanda, you're taking this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously and missing the
gentle culture humor involved.
>As for the people, I don't know what their religion was. Nor do I really
>care.
It has absolutely nothing to do with religion and has everything to do with US
Eastern cultcha, dahlink.
>Mirhanda, very saddened to see such extremely prejudiced views in afca not
>being LOUDLY shouted down.
Because there is no prejudice here.
J
JmG
>Sorry, not Jewish. I was brought up protestant, converted to Wicca (which
>turned out to be sadly disillusioning) and am now considering converting to
>Catholicism, which is at least stable.
Oy vey is mir! Very Jewish.
J
JmG
>I knew I'd get reactions like that, which is why I said there should be no
>argument about the classifications, just claims. Suffice it to say that it
>has nothing really to do with religion, nor with goodness or badness per se.
If you have to explain it - very goyish.
J
JmG
>Cake is Jewish...pie is goyish, by the way.
Honey cake is Jewish, chocolate cake is goyish.
J
JmG
>Well, it's obviously *NOT* Jewish. If Irish and Italian *CATHOLICS*
>(which, last time I checked was a Christian denomination) do it, then it's
>NOT restricted to Jewish people.
Not Catholic. Not Catholic at all. No religion. REMOVE RELIGION FROM YOUR BRAIN!
There is no religion here - there is humor, there is culture. There is NO
RELIGION.
Jeez, this reminds of me last Passover.
J
Big David
> ba...@shell3.ba.best.com (Jerry Bauer) wrote:
> > Traditional Southern Women are goyische. However, they are (at least
> > mine is) warm and loving and fun, and certainly not cold, sterile or
> > boring.
> For Mirhanda's sake, let's try this again.
> Corn on the cob, bluegrass, pickup trucks, volunteer fire departments,
state
> universities, Ohio, Little League, Charles Lindbergh, peanut butter and
> jelly, Norman Rockwell, Andrew and all the other Wyeths, including the one
> who invented the plastic soda bottle, pop instead of soda, lawns,
basketball
> hoops in driveways, driveways, outhouses with crescents in the doors...
>
> Jewish or Goyish? Bad or good?
All Goyish. No value judgment
OTH, creamed corn, succotash, classical music, SUVs, Baltimore, Amelia
Erhart, half-and-half, two liter bottles of soda, Filene's, pumpernickel,
Degas, 5c return deposit on bottles, sugar, shutters, Dr. Livingston,
Doctors without Borders, flagship campuses of state universities, meatball
subs, turkey with mustard, chess, _Steel Magnolias_, and light rail.
All Jewish
--
Big David
If you want to send me email, you should be smart enough to figure out how.
"There is no right not to be offended by words, actions, or symbols".
Richard E. Sincere, Jr.
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>
>OTH, creamed corn, succotash, classical music, SUVs, Baltimore, Amelia
>Erhart, half-and-half, two liter bottles of soda, Filene's, pumpernickel,
>Degas, 5c return deposit on bottles, sugar, shutters, Dr. Livingston,
>Doctors without Borders, flagship campuses of state universities, meatball
>subs, turkey with mustard, chess, _Steel Magnolias_, and light rail.
>
>All Jewish
Succotash?
boron
Boron Elgar
WITH nuts...then it's Jewish.
I mean, Lady Baltimore Cake we don't need to discuss, right?
And I can make a dispensation about lemon merigue pie, too.
Boron
Big David
Stan
wrote:
>> >All Jewish
>
Boron Elgar wrote:
>> Succotash?
>
>Yes, succotash.
Suffering succotash, of course.
Gary S. Callison
: As for the objects you mention, objects don't have religion, they are
: inanimate, thus don't worship a deity. If you are referring to who uses
: them, I would suppose that both religions have used them at some point in
: history.
Goyish.
: As for the people, I don't know what their religion was. Nor do I really
: care.
Goyish.
: Mirhanda, very saddened to see such extremely prejudiced views in afca not
: being LOUDLY shouted down.
Jewish.
: I know who you are!! You are the character who occasionally appears in the
: comic strip "Sylvia", as "The Woman Who Does Everything More Beautifully
: Than You Do".
Jewish.
--
Huey
I don't speak for my employer. I don't work in the abuse department.
CCs of your larts are unwanted, and will be reported to your ISP as such.
rob...@bestweb.net
>For Mirhanda's sake, let's try this again.
>Corn on the cob, bluegrass, pickup trucks, volunteer fire
>departments, state universities, Ohio, Little League, Charles
>Lindbergh, peanut butter and jelly, Norman Rockwell, Andrew and all
>the other Wyeths, including the one who invented the plastic soda
>bottle, pop instead of soda, lawns, basketball hoops in driveways,
>driveways, outhouses with crescents in the doors...
>Jewish or Goyish? Bad or good?
>Brian Cubbison
>Syracuse, NY
To take one example from the above and the fine distinctions involved,
peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are goyish, but cream cheese and jelly,
even on white bread, is Jewish.
Posting way too late last night, I'd written that I wasn't sure whether was
goyish or Jewish. Lying in bed afterward thinking about it, I realized that
my uncertainty practically proved I was Jewish.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
Note also that Danish is Jewish. It does not necessarily follow, however,
that Jews are Danish.
rob...@bestweb.net
>It is no more sensical than assigning humours
>to things: rivers are sanguine, clouds choleric, lakes bilious, and
>rain melancholic. There is no intention in it of assigning goodness
>or badness. It pokes ridicule at stereotypes by being ridiculous
>about extending those stereotypes beyond their bounds.
Remember, Lenny Bruce started it.
Tales to Dutch Courage
>Brian Cubbison <bcub...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
>> ba...@shell3.ba.best.com (Jerry Bauer) wrote:
>
>> > Traditional Southern Women are goyische. However, they are (at least
>> > mine is) warm and loving and fun, and certainly not cold, sterile or
>> > boring.
>
>> For Mirhanda's sake, let's try this again.
>
>> Corn on the cob, bluegrass, pickup trucks, volunteer fire departments,
>state
>> universities, Ohio, Little League, Charles Lindbergh, peanut butter and
>> jelly, Norman Rockwell, Andrew and all the other Wyeths, including the one
>> who invented the plastic soda bottle, pop instead of soda, lawns,
>basketball
>> hoops in driveways, driveways, outhouses with crescents in the doors...
>>
>> Jewish or Goyish? Bad or good?
>
>All Goyish. No value judgment
>
>OTH, creamed corn, succotash,
ehhh...
> classical music,
Well, except Mozart or Vivaldi or Pachabel's canon
> SUVs,
""There's a false idea of utility now. What could be less useful than a sport
utility vehicle? It just looks useful. To use this truck to get a quart of milk
at the supermarket is very useless.
It would be useful if you were a general in the Army in the desert. Very
useful. But it's a truck. Is that your dream -- to drive a truck? To look
useful and be useless is the worst of all possible worlds. You should look
useless and be useful."
Fran Lebowitz
> Baltimore, Amelia
>Erhart, half-and-half, two liter bottles of soda, Filene's,
Um...
>pumpernickel,
>Degas, 5c return deposit on bottles, sugar, shutters, Dr. Livingston,
>Doctors without Borders,
This could be Jewish.
> flagship campuses of state universities, meatball
>subs, turkey with mustard, chess, _Steel Magnolias_, and light rail.
>
>All Jewish
Work on it.
SUV's? Sheesh.
Jose (JRDelirio) Diaz
JmG wrote in message ...
Indeed, extremely so. Specially if she begins reading extensive treatises
on theology and debating it with other interested parties...
Remember, Lenny's point was taking the stereotypical tastes, preferences and
practices associated to one or another ethnic-American group and showing
what it becomes, ad absurdum. Because someone who really believed the
stereotypes about "jewishness and goyishness" *would* end up concluding such
silly things as "the Marines are dangerously goyish" (which may be true
anyway...)
BTW, Puerto Ricans are also "jewish," but our leaders and organizations are
"goyish"
José
Jose (JRDelirio) Diaz
Tales to Dutch Courage wrote in message
<20010211053303...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
> scu...@aol.comatose (kay w) writes:
>
>>
>>Atlanta - goyish; Miami - Jewish.
>
>Ehh, I dunno, Atlanta is a very black city, and blacks are very Jewish.
Yes, but the "face" of Atlanta to the rest of the world is dominated by the
Coca Cola Co., Ten Turner, and Hartsfield Airport, all excruciatingly
goyish.
Miami may be too jewish, imminently about to lap itself back into goyishness
Boron Elgar
>On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:48:22 GMT, "Big David" <dbo...@etspamhome.com>
>wrote:
>
>>> >All Jewish
>>
>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>>> Succotash?
>>
>>Yes, succotash.
>
>
>Suffering succotash, of course.
Bingo!
Borongo
rob...@bestweb.net
>>Such levels of guilt definitely make you jewish, anything else
>>notwithstanding.
>Sorry, not Jewish. I was brought up protestant, converted to Wicca
>(which turned out to be sadly disillusioning) and am now
>considering converting to Catholicism, which is at least stable.
>--
All of which makes you more Jewish than ever! AMAZINGLY Jewish.
With a story like that, it'd be very hard for you to become goyish.
Possibly you could do it if you joined the Navy and stayed long enough at or
in the vicinity of Great Lakes Naval Training Center. Buying clothes and
furniture from a catalog or online would help.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
>To show you all how this appears, I'm changing the two words
>"Jewish" and "Goyish" to something else.
>>Show biz is White. Wall Street is niggerish.
You got that one backwards, of course.
Of course you must also realize the NAACP is White. Jesse Jackson is
niggerish. Practically all teenagers are niggerish.
>>Sports are basically niggerish, but baseball is a little less
>>niggerish than
>>most.
>>Mah jongg is White. Computer mah jongg is niggerish.
>>Vegas and Atlantic City are White. Riverboat casinos are niggerish.
>>Canasta is White. Texas Hold 'Em is niggerish.
>>Farming is niggerish. This does not explain why the most rural,
>>most niggerish
>>part of deep South Jersey contains hamlets called Rosenhayn and
>>Brotmanville.
>>Deli sandwiches are white. Fast food is niggerish.
>>The concept of the all-you-can-eat buffet is white, but at most of
>>them the food is strictly niggerish.
All of the above are correct.
>>Being minimalist, in any sense, is niggerish.
>>Complaining is white. Suffering in silence is niggerish, unless
>>you make a point of telling someone that you're going to suffer in
>>silence. Then it's white.
I don't agree with either of the above.
>>Outlet malls are niggerish. 60% off at a department store is white.
>>(Department stores in general are white; discount stores can be
>>white, but Wal-Marts are as niggerish as it gets and K marts
>aren't much less so.)
>>Grandparents are white. Teenagers are niggerish.
>>Rick B., who was thought to be white in high school but wasn't
Now we're back on track.
Most music is niggerish, but C&W is White.
Robert
Boron Elgar
There was Victor Borge, but I'm sure he lived out of a suitcase.
Boron
rob...@bestweb.net
>>. Oh, I'm not Jewish.
>Well, you kind of are, the way the term is being used here. On the
>other hand, being outside the loop and square is goyishe.
No, you can be far outside the loop, and very square, and still be Jewish.
rob...@bestweb.net
>Not Catholic. Not Catholic at all. No religion. REMOVE RELIGION
>FROM YOUR BRAIN! There is no religion here - there is humor, there
>is culture. There is NO RELIGION.
>Jeez, this reminds of me last Passover.
Oh, religion is frequently a factor in this determination, but it
doesn't figure in the straightforward way.
rob...@bestweb.net
>AOL is definitely goyish.
>Stan in NJ
>--
Yes. But when they merged with Compuserve, was the latter's Jewishness
dissipated or what?
rob...@bestweb.net
>Honey cake is Jewish, chocolate cake is goyish.
Well, if it's a Drake's cake, as Bruce mentioned, it is. But an Entenman's
chocolate cake, for instance, is Jewish. Entenman's chocolate doughnuts,
OTOH, are goyish. Dunkin' Donuts bagels are goyish, although not nearly as
goyish as they were at first.
Robert
Mirhanda Sarko
in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>JmG wrote in message ...
>>azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry, not Jewish. I was brought up protestant, converted to Wicca
>>>(which turned out to be sadly disillusioning) and am now considering
>>>converting
>to
>>>Catholicism, which is at least stable.
>>
>>Oy vey is mir! Very Jewish.
>>
>
>Indeed, extremely so. Specially if she begins reading extensive
>treatises on theology and debating it with other interested parties...
Actually, I do this. Whenever I decide to do *anything* the first thing I
do is go out and buy a ton of books on the subject and find other people
who are into whatever and talk about it with them. I think I spent about
$250 when I bought my Catholic reading.
Mirhanda, not Jewish
--
Decapitate my addy to email me
I know who you are!! You are the character who occasionally appears in the
comic strip "Sylvia", as "The Woman Who Does Everything More Beautifully
Than You Do".
Les, speaking of me, in alt.fan.cecil-adams
Mirhanda Sarko
>All of which makes you more Jewish than ever! AMAZINGLY Jewish.
>
>With a story like that, it'd be very hard for you to become goyish.
>Possibly you could do it if you joined the Navy and stayed long enough
>at or in the vicinity of Great Lakes Naval Training Center. Buying
>clothes and furniture from a catalog or online would help.
I don't see how my deciding to convert to Catholicism makes me
Jewish...but, I do buy things online. Not clothes, usually...although I
*did* buy a belly-dance outfit online. I would rather try clothes on
though. The only reason I resorted to online for the belly-dance costume
was because they aren't available locally.
I don't think I'd buy furniture online, as the expense of shipping would
negate any savings. However, my husband and I did purchase a coat-rack
from e-bay, because we couldn't find one locally. (And not being able to
find one locally was a huge shock!)
Mirhanda
rob...@bestweb.net
>> Corn on the cob, bluegrass, pickup trucks, volunteer fire
>>departments, state
>> universities, Ohio, Little League, Charles Lindbergh, peanut
>>butter and jelly, Norman Rockwell, Andrew and all the other
>>Wyeths, including the one who invented the plastic soda bottle,
>>pop instead of soda, lawns, basketball
>> hoops in driveways, driveways, outhouses with crescents in the
>>doors...
>> Jewish or Goyish? Bad or good?
>All Goyish. No value judgment
>OTH, creamed corn, succotash, classical music, SUVs, Baltimore,
>Amelia Erhart, half-and-half, two liter bottles of soda, Filene's,
>pumpernickel, Degas, 5c return deposit on bottles, sugar, shutters,
>Dr. Livingston, Doctors without Borders, flagship campuses of state
>universities, meatball subs, turkey with mustard, chess, _Steel
>Magnolias_, and light rail.
>All Jewish
>--
SUVs Jewish? Funny, they don't look it! (I had no idea, but I guess they
must be.)
And although sugar is Jewish, saccarine is even more so. Aspartame is
goyish.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
>>>> Succotash?
>>>Yes, succotash.
>>Suffering succotash, of course.
>Bingo!
>Borongo
Which reminds me: Warner and Fleischer animation, Jewish; Disney, goyish.
Mirhanda Sarko
>On 2001-02-10 zk...@hotmail.com said:
>
> >Getting this is Jewish. Not getting it is Goyish.
> >Stan in NJ
> >--
>But getting ostentatiously offended by it is Jewish. And standing up for
>those who are offended by it is even more Jewish.
>
Last night, I replied to one of these posts and changed the words "Jewish"
and "Goyish" to something else, to hopefully prod you all in the *thinking*
about what you are doing. However, it still hasn't shown up today, so may
have been lost. But, in your head, change these words to racial terms, and
see how it sounds. Is it "cute" anymore? No, it's hate speach. And it
sickens me.
Mirhanda Sarko
>azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net (Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>
>>Well, it's obviously *NOT* Jewish. If Irish and Italian *CATHOLICS*
>>(which, last time I checked was a Christian denomination) do it, then
>>it's NOT restricted to Jewish people.
>
>Not Catholic. Not Catholic at all. No religion. REMOVE RELIGION FROM
>YOUR BRAIN! There is no religion here - there is humor, there is
>culture. There is NO RELIGION.
I don't think you can do it. Catholicism is a HUGE part of the culture of
Ireland (and probably Italy as well)
mje
Boron Elgar <Kalk...@bwu.edu> wrote:
> The Irish & the Italians are Jewish.
> The Scandanvians the Belgians are goyishe.
Irish are definitely not Jewish; Italians definitely are.
As my Sicilian girlfriend's grandmother said about 20 years ago, "Eh,
Jews and Italians... same thing."
More evidence? I give you my friend Joe's mother, who *knew* she spoke
the same language Jesus did: Italian.
--
Michael Edelman
http://www.foldingkayaks.org
http://www.findascope.com
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Amy Gleason
I'm with Mirhanda, I do not understand the distinction.
I also have a close Jewish friend who said he would kick anyone's ass if
they called me goyish... So I'm assuming that the things that are goyish
are tacky, white trash kid of things. In which case...
> Show biz is Jewish. Wall Street is goyish.
I would think this would be reversed.
Maybe I don't understand...
L & k,
Amy
Amy Gleason
> scu...@aol.comatose (kay w) writes:
>
> >
> >Atlanta - goyish; Miami - Jewish.
>
> Ehh, I dunno, Atlanta is a very black city, and blacks are very Jewish. Terra
> Haute, on the other hand, is goyishe.
Terre Haute also smells bad.
L & k,
Amy
Amy Gleason
>
> In article <lpph6.13281$1%2.68...@sjc-read.news.verio.net>,
> ba...@shell3.ba.best.com (Jerry Bauer) wrote:
>
>
> > Traditional Southern Women are goyische. However, they are (at least
> > mine is) warm and loving and fun, and certainly not cold, sterile or
> > boring.
>
> For Mirhanda's sake, let's try this again.
>
> Corn on the cob, bluegrass, pickup trucks, volunteer fire departments, state
> universities, Ohio, Little League, Charles Lindbergh, peanut butter and
> jelly, Norman Rockwell, Andrew and all the other Wyeths, including the one
> who invented the plastic soda bottle, pop instead of soda, lawns, basketball
> hoops in driveways, driveways, outhouses with crescents in the doors...
>
> Jewish or Goyish? Bad or good?
Now you're pissing me off.
I know what Goyish means, and I know that it is about the equivalent of
calling someone "tacky" if not worse. It ("goy") actually means, "a
non-Jewish person, a gentile" but in the vernacular means, "one who is
ignorant of Judaism," and has been stretched to mean, "one who is
ignorant".
Just because something is Midwestern, doesn't mean it is ignorant. Do I
have to re-post "Why I like Indiana"? Christ you people are judgmental
sometimes.
Mirhanda Sarko
Thanks, Amy. I thought I was all alone here. I don't understand how
people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost everyone
in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism and prejudice,
and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
Amy Gleason
> However, I think threads like this are Jewish. Mirhanda's reaction is
> highly Jewish.
I agree with Mirhanda. I think the whole thread is stupid and racist.
Why not say, "White Trash, not White Trash" or "Right side of the tracks,
Wrong side of the tracks,"? Or worse.
It implies that when "good" "cultured" "ethnic" people partake of the
"goyish" things (peanut butter & jelly, state fairs) that they're
slumming. As someone who was born and bred in the midwest, and who could
very well be considered "white trash" in some parts of the country/world,
I take extreme exception.
Amy
Al Yellon
news:Pine.SOL.4.31.01021...@herald.cc.purdue.edu...
> > Show biz is Jewish. Wall Street is goyish.
>
> I would think this would be reversed.
>
> Maybe I don't understand...
Damn, and I was trying to avoid this thread...
Look, it's a JOKE. It's not serious stereotyping. It's supposed to be FUN.
Those of us who are Jewish understand this, perhaps THAT is a Jewish
thing... <JOKE! JOKE!>
Show biz is Jewish because so many of the founders of the motion picture
industry (Mayer, Goldwyn, among them, not to mention the performers) were
Jewish. So was vaudeville.
Wall Street has always had that "WASP"-y image, blue-bloods, old money, etc.
Sheesh. They're never as good when you have to 'splain 'em.
--
**********************************
AY - Charter Member, DBFC
http://www.dbfc.org
**********************************
Al Yellon
news:904577D05azzi...@216.76.200.200...
>
> Thanks, Amy. I thought I was all alone here. I don't understand how
> people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost everyone
> in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism and prejudice,
> and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
>
It's a JOKE, Mirhanda. It's self-deprecating humor. They are NOT slams.
I'm Jewish and I found ALL of them funny.
Lighten up!
kay w
>I don't understand how
>people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost everyone
>in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism and prejudice,
>and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
Mirhanda, again, you are missing the point. No one is being slammed right or
left, no slurs used...my big dic defines "goy" as "non-Jewish; Gentile." Jew
is not a slur; Gentile/Goy is not a slur.
I genuinely don't see what you're mad about.
kay w
Address munged. AOL isn't necessarily comatose, evidence to the contrary not
withstanding.
Bob Ward
(Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>
>So, yes...you're saying Jewish=GOOD THINGS IN LIFE, people who aren't
>Jewish, like me,=BAD THINGS IN LIFE.
>
>Yes, it's quite clear.
>
>
>Mirhanda, finally saddened by something she read in afca...prejudice
How is that any more judgemental than your prounouncements that people
who observe different wedding traditions than those YOU follow are
uncouth slobs?
Mirhanda Sarko
>Previously, Mirhanda said:
>
>>I don't understand how
>>people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost
>>everyone in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism
>>and prejudice, and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
>
>Mirhanda, again, you are missing the point. No one is being slammed
>right or left, no slurs used...my big dic defines "goy" as "non-Jewish;
>Gentile." Jew is not a slur; Gentile/Goy is not a slur.
>
>I genuinely don't see what you're mad about.
I know what "goy" is *supposed* to mean. I also know how it's used in the
vernacular. Nigger is just an english corruption of the spanish word for
"black", so why should anyone find it offensive?
If you can't understand *that* then I find YOU offensive.
Mirhanda Sarko
>"Amy Gleason" <glea...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SOL.4.31.01021...@herald.cc.purdue.edu...
>> > Show biz is Jewish. Wall Street is goyish.
>>
>> I would think this would be reversed.
>>
>> Maybe I don't understand...
>
>Damn, and I was trying to avoid this thread...
>
>Look, it's a JOKE. It's not serious stereotyping. It's supposed to be
>FUN. Those of us who are Jewish understand this, perhaps THAT is a
>Jewish thing... <JOKE! JOKE!>
And it's just a *JOKE* when you tell a black guy you think he must love
watermelon and be a good dancer. Hahaha. Go on over to some black people
and tell them that. I'll bet they'll laugh you black and blue.
Amy Gleason
> >I'm with Mirhanda, I do not understand the distinction.
> Thanks, Amy. I thought I was all alone here. I don't understand how
> people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost everyone
> in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism and prejudice,
> and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
You're welcome. You're not alone. I think people hide the more seemy
sides of their beliefs/personality behind humor. Then what happens, when
someone realizes what they're doing and calls them on it, the person is
told that they lack a sense of humor, that they aren't getting it, that
they're stupid, even... When in fact, we're just pointing out the obvious
truth.
This thread is about racism/culturalism/religiousism, thinnly veiled in
"humor". I don't think it is funny.
L & k,
Amy - supports the local volunteer fire department, eats corn on
the cob, attends county and state fairs, loves peanut butter and jelly on
white bread, lives in Indiana, has actually set foot in a trailer park,
has experienced more than one tornado first hand, hates rye bread, refuses
to eat anything considered deli meat (corned beef, etc.) because it has
entirely too much salt and tastes like garbage, has several very close
Jewish friends (which is an accomplishment in this area)
Amy Gleason
> "Amy Gleason" <glea...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.SOL.4.31.01021...@herald.cc.purdue.edu...
> > > Show biz is Jewish. Wall Street is goyish.
> >
> > I would think this would be reversed.
> >
> > Maybe I don't understand...
>
> Damn, and I was trying to avoid this thread...
>
> Look, it's a JOKE. It's not serious stereotyping. It's supposed to be FUN.
> Those of us who are Jewish understand this, perhaps THAT is a Jewish
> thing... <JOKE! JOKE!>
>
> Show biz is Jewish because so many of the founders of the motion picture
> industry (Mayer, Goldwyn, among them, not to mention the performers) were
> Jewish. So was vaudeville.
>
> Wall Street has always had that "WASP"-y image, blue-bloods, old money, etc.
>
> Sheesh. They're never as good when you have to 'splain 'em.
After reading the whole thread, I understand what is going on. I just
happen to believe that it is racist and lacks humor.
If that makes me Goyish, I guess I'm on-topic.
Amy Gleason
> "Mirhanda Sarko" <azz...@bellsouthCAPITATE.net> wrote in message
> news:904577D05azzi...@216.76.200.200...
> >
> > Thanks, Amy. I thought I was all alone here. I don't understand how
> > people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost everyone
> > in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism and prejudice,
> > and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
> >
>
> It's a JOKE, Mirhanda. It's self-deprecating humor. They are NOT slams.
>
> I'm Jewish and I found ALL of them funny.
>
> Lighten up!
Re-read the thread - it is extremely flattering to the Jewish. Jewish =
the opposite of white trash (Walmart, K-mart, etc.) Those of us who
identify with the Goyish things (I shop at places that end in -mart, eat
white bread, enjoy mayonnaise, etc.) are the ones who are offended.
Just because something is racist against the majority group (white, middle
class, midwestern, etc.) doesn't meant that it is ok.
Amy
Mirhanda Sarko
>On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Mirhanda Sarko wrote:
>
>> >I'm with Mirhanda, I do not understand the distinction.
>
>> Thanks, Amy. I thought I was all alone here. I don't understand how
>> people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost
>> everyone in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism
>> and prejudice, and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
>
>You're welcome. You're not alone. I think people hide the more seemy
>sides of their beliefs/personality behind humor. Then what happens,
>when someone realizes what they're doing and calls them on it, the
>person is told that they lack a sense of humor, that they aren't getting
>it, that they're stupid, even... When in fact, we're just pointing out
>the obvious truth.
>
>This thread is about racism/culturalism/religiousism, thinnly veiled in
>"humor". I don't think it is funny.
Yes, exactly. Thirty years ago doing something similar about black people
was considered ok too.
Amy Gleason
> Previously, Mirhanda said:
>
> >I don't understand how
> >people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost everyone
> >in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism and prejudice,
> >and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
>
> Mirhanda, again, you are missing the point. No one is being slammed right or
> left, no slurs used...my big dic defines "goy" as "non-Jewish; Gentile." Jew
> is not a slur; Gentile/Goy is not a slur.
>
> I genuinely don't see what you're mad about.
Yeah, and my dictionary says that "nigger" is a racial slur... That
certainly doesn't imply the magnitude of the insult.
Goy is an insult. A big one. It is the equivalent of "ignorant" with a
sneer. I am not impressed by this "humor" either.
Amy
Amy Gleason
> >Mirhanda, finally saddened by something she read in afca...prejudice
>
> How is that any more judgemental than your prounouncements that people
> who observe different wedding traditions than those YOU follow are
> uncouth slobs?
It is extremely different. I didn't even agree with Mirhanda in that
thread, but she is talking about BEHAVIOR, which is different than
slamming people because of their ethnicity or religion. One is something
you can control, you have a choice over... The other two are not.
Amy
Big David
> > classical music,
> Well, except Mozart or Vivaldi or Pachabel's canon
Well, and Wagner, but I associate him more with opera, which is exceedingly
goyish
> >pumpernickel,
> >Degas, 5c return deposit on bottles, sugar, shutters, Dr. Livingston,
> >Doctors without Borders,
> This could be Jewish.
> > flagship campuses of state universities, meatball subs, turkey with
mustard, chess, _Steel Magnolias_, and light rail.
> >All Jewish
and brisket, honors programs, liberal arts, the east coast above D.C.,
including Vermont (but not Maine, NH, or WV), and IKEA.
> Work on it. SUV's? Sheesh.
Please, boy. As opposed to pickup trucks? Stand at the entrance to Oheb
Shalom or Har Siani some Friday night and lets count Explorers, Grand
Cherokees, Discoverys, Land Rovers, Tahoes, Mountaineers, and Expeditions.
Then come to my church on Sunday morn. or Sat. night and count Siennas,
Bravadas, MPVs, Caravans, Tacomas, Rams, F-150s, and Windstars.
SUVs, Jewish; Minivans and Pickup trucks, Goyish
But there is large overlap.
--
Big David
If you want to send me email, you should be smart enough to figure out how.
"There is no right not to be offended by words, actions, or symbols".
Richard E. Sincere, Jr.
kay w
>It implies that when "good" "cultured" "ethnic" people partake of the
>"goyish" things (peanut butter & jelly, state fairs) that they're
>slumming.
Amy, for God's sake...it's a joke...a pleasant discussion. A JOKE.
You and Mirhanda are the only ones equating "goyish" with negative attributes.
I'm a lifelong Southerner and proud of it; a business partner is a lifelong
New York Jew, and he's proud of it. You can be proud (and don't need to be
defensive) about being a shiksa from the Midwest. It's OK, and no one here has
said different.
Mayo is OK. Bagels are OK. Country fairs are OK. NYC is OK. Peanut butter
is OK. Being from the midwest is OK. Streisand is OK. Neil Diamond is OK.
Milk toast is OK.
There's no good/bad judgement going on here....that's all in your mind, and
Mirhanda's.
Dana Carpender
Indeed. Ick. Gary without the thrills.
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet -- And Lost Forty Pounds!
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Check out our FREE Low Carb Ezine!
Brian Cubbison
In article <Pine.SOL.4.31.01021...@herald.cc.purdue.edu>,
Amy Gleason <glea...@purdue.edu> wrote:
Because it's not about white trash or wrong side of the tracks. It's also
about Laura Ashley and Martha Stewart. These are not slurs. You and Mirhanda
are the ones who are assuming anything bad about these categories. These
categories are about as equal, one-to-one as they can get. Do you not see
the irony? Do you not see that these are poking fun at the absurdities of
stereotypes? Can the idea that Italians are Jewish and Marines are Goyish be
anything but a mockery of stereotypes? And corn on the cob -- where's the
slur in that? Read Calvin Trillin's writings on the glories of fresh corn
cob, cut right from the field, rushed to the kitchen by a child who's fast
at short distances to get the freshest, most wonderful taste on the table.
Volunteer fire departments? County fairs? Who is slurring them? What
negatives do you have about these images? Do you not see that corn on the
cob comes from a different culture than corned beef? Thank goodness we have
so many cultures that can bring us such wonders.
By the way, I was born and bred in Appalachia, where there's much to love
and much to cringe at. Where we work all our lives to become Indianans, yet
hope we don't lose the connection to home.
Brian Cubbison
Syracuse, NY
Dana Carpender
I don't necessarily see "goyish" as "tacky" or "ignorant". Just as
being somehow representative of non-Jewish white culture, that's all.
Dana Carpender
Mirhanda Sarko wrote:
>
> glea...@purdue.edu (Amy Gleason) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
> >On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Rick B. wrote:
> >
> >
> >I'm with Mirhanda, I do not understand the distinction.
> >
> >I also have a close Jewish friend who said he would kick anyone's ass if
> >they called me goyish... So I'm assuming that the things that are goyish
> >are tacky, white trash kid of things. In which case...
> >
> >> Show biz is Jewish. Wall Street is goyish.
> >
> >I would think this would be reversed.
> >
> >Maybe I don't understand...
>
> Thanks, Amy. I thought I was all alone here. I don't understand how
> people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost everyone
> in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism and prejudice,
> and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
I'm not playing this game, but again, I don't see a slur happening, just
a dividing into traits that are percieved as being more typical of one
group than another. For instance: In my experience, while folks dress
up for Episcopal weddings (us Episcopalians generally not being
perceived as "white trash"), they wear the sort of nice "day" dress one
might wear to work. OTOH, the Jewish weddings I've been to, people
dressed to the nines -- wearing what I would have thought of as "evening
clothes" -- sequins and such -- even to daytime weddings. One isn't
better or worse than the other, they're just different cultural trends,
Bob Ward
> >--
>SUVs Jewish? Funny, they don't look it! (I had no idea, but I guess they
>must be.)
Sure they are - haven't you noticed? Every last one of them has had
two inches of the tailpipe removed!
Randy Poe
>For instance, do you
>have any thoughts about the kind of people who order a corned beef sandwich on
>white bread with mayonaisse? What do you think; is it Jewish or Goyish?
That's a crime against nature. Does that make it goyish?
I just want to say I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation.
Many grocery stores in this area sell their cold cuts in the "Delly"
department. Feel my pain.
- Randy
Randy Poe
(Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>I have NO idea. I'd eat corned beef on a nice French roll with mustard.
>But how can someone's personal taste about what they eat indicate their
>religion? I know some religions forbid the ingestion of certain foods, but
>there are those who don't like those foods who are not of those religions,
>so you can't make a judgement just because of what they eat or don't eat.
>
>Seems like you're equating Jewishness with "good" and "Goyishness" with
>"bad".
>
Mirhanda, Mirhanda, Mirhanda. That's not it at all. They're equating
Jewishness with certain stereotypical elements of jewish culture that
jews themselves love to poke fun at. The thing about "suffering in
silence is goyish, but ostentatiously telling everyone you're
suffering in silence is jewish" for instance.
Or do you think complaining is good and suffering in silence is bad?
Specifically on the corned-beef, that's New York snobbishness, of
which I admit to a fair dose myself, particularly dealing with coffee
and cold cuts.
- Randy
Randy Poe
(Mirhanda Sarko) wrote:
>
>Oh, I get it. Anything warm and loving and fun is Jewish, while everything
>cold and sterile and boring is people like me. Yes, I'm only too afraid
>that I do get it.
Oy vey.
No, I'm rather afraid that you don't.
I'm not aware that people who live in the suburbs, eat white bread,
like tuna-noodle casserole, or put mayonnaise on their roast beef
think of themselves as cold and sterile and boring. I rather suspect
that there isn't one "right" culture and nobody feels they're in the
"wrong" one. (Haven't we had this conversation before?)
It's more about laughing at yourself, on both the jewish and goyish
sides of this division. On some of these classifications I'm on one
side, on some I'm on the other. In any case, I find great joy in
laughing at myself, on not taking myself so bloody seriously.
Perhaps it's a skill you should work on.
>
>Mirhanda (whose Catholic husband has a boisterous, immigrant family,
Note how Italians and Irish were classified as "jewish" in this
cultural aspect. Your husband's family qualifies.
> and whose Grandmother married a doctor)
Did her parents urge her to marry a doctor? Did they consider that to
be the ultimate triumph for their daughter? Did they introduce her to
doctors?
- Randy
kay w
>>
>>>I don't understand how
>>>people can blithely use a slur to describe other people. Almost
>>>everyone in this thread has shown themselves to be opposed to racism
>>>and prejudice, and yet, here they are, slamming people right and left.
>>
>>Mirhanda, again, you are missing the point. No one is being slammed
>>right or left, no slurs used...my big dic defines "goy" as "non-Jewish;
>>Gentile." Jew is not a slur; Gentile/Goy is not a slur.
>>
>>I genuinely don't see what you're mad about.
>
>I know what "goy" is *supposed* to mean. I also know how it's used in the
>vernacular. Nigger is just an english corruption of the spanish word for
>"black", so why should anyone find it offensive?
>
>If you can't understand *that* then I find YOU offensive.
Mirhanda, I guess you can turn in that fake Southern Belle facade now. You
have chosen to take offense at something that was never meant to offend, and
have decided to be outraged at a discussion that has, apparently, gone over
your head.
I recommend you get a big dictionary and look up words you don't understand,
and believe what it tells you. If you've been using "goy" as a slur, you're
using it incorrectly. Try not to assume everything new to you is intended to
hurt your feelings, and try to believe what people say about their intentions,
instead of regarding everything as an attack on you. It isn't about *you.*
Besides, the beloved Miss Manners gives advice for this instance. She says:
"Bigoted jokes or expressions are properly used only by members of the group
being slurred, addressed to other members of that group. A non-member would be
well advised not to join in the fun."
Since you believe these lighthearted comments to be slurs, and you have
indicated you choose to be neither Jewish nor goyish, Miss Manners' advice to
you would be to butt out.
God bless Miss Manners.