"Peeing Calvin" Stickers
Brettster
For the past several years, I've noticed a growing number of
automobiles whose owners have affixed a decal of Calvin (of
the defunct comic strip Calvin and Hobbes) peeing. I have a
number of questions about this. First of all, were these stickers
approved by C&H creator Bill Watterson? If not, what is his
take on the phenomenon? Second, who in his right mind would
want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
Thanks for your insight.
Dutch Courage
>Hi,
>
>For the past several years, I've noticed a growing number of
>automobiles whose owners have affixed a decal of Calvin (of
>the defunct comic strip Calvin and Hobbes) peeing. I have a
>number of questions about this. First of all, were these stickers
>approved by C&H creator Bill Watterson?
No, of course not. Also, the black Bart Simpsons shirts are unapproved.
> If not, what is his
>take on the phenomenon?
Dunno. He was opposed to merchandizing the strip, so he probably hates it. MG
likes black Bart, though.
> Second, who in his right mind would
>want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
It's not their car, it's the other brand of car. Ford people get Calvin peeing
on a Chevy logo, Browns fans get Calvin peeing on a Steeler, OSU fans get him
peeing on Michigan. Generally this sort of thing is more popular among the side
that kind of sucks.
>
>Thanks for your insight.
Anything for a brother.
"There is no land beyond the law, where tyrants rule with unshakable power.
It is but a dream from which the evil wake to face their fate, their
terrifying hour."
-Wesley Dodds.
David Zeiger
>Hi,
>
>For the past several years, I've noticed a growing number of
>automobiles whose owners have affixed a decal of Calvin (of
>the defunct comic strip Calvin and Hobbes) peeing. I have a
>number of questions about this. First of all, were these stickers
>approved by C&H creator Bill Watterson?
No.
>If not, what is his
>take on the phenomenon?
I can't recall hearing his opinion of the subject, if he's given
one, but whatever cartoon syndicate controls the distribution of
the image really dislikes it, and has taken action against places
making them, as I recall.
> Second, who in his right mind would
>want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
The main focus for these (or at least the first place they really
became popular) is the rivalry between owners of Ford and Chevy
pickup trucks. Silly as it may sound, many families swear by
one, and have an irrational hatred of the other. This is passed
down to the next generation.
Someone who buys a Ford truck in a Chevy family is probably
disowned...
--
David Zeiger dze...@the-institute.net
Whenever I find myself in a difficult situation, I ask myself "What
Would Jesus Do?" The mental image of my opposition being cast into
pits of hellfire for all eternity *is* comforting, but probably not
what the inventors of the phrase had in mind.
Lalbert1
(Brettster) writes:
>For the past several years, I've noticed a growing number of
>automobiles whose owners have affixed a decal of Calvin (of
>the defunct comic strip Calvin and Hobbes) peeing. I have a
>number of questions about this. First of all, were these stickers
>approved by C&H creator Bill Watterson? If not, what is his
>take on the phenomenon? Second, who in his right mind would
>want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
I have seen those decals. I don't know where to get them, but I can tell you
that Watterson never approved any after-market sales of the Calvin and Hobbes
characters. He is pretty firm about this, just as he was about how the strip
was presented by the newspapers. As I remember, he took the strip off the
market because he just didn't want to compromise it; the newspapers wanted to
keep reducing the space that it was shown in, and he wanted all his great art
work to be displayed large.
I can't explain why someone wants a decal of Calvin peeing. I guess it's the
same mentality that puts a bumper sticker on the vehicle that says, "How's my
driving? If you have any complaints dial 1-800-EAT SHIT".
Les
(Calvin and Hobbes are still around - they've just gone exploring)
Big Iron5
>want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?]]
I always enjoy seeing Reid Fleming piss on things.
fastrada
>
> Hi,
>
> For the past several years, I've noticed a growing number of
> automobiles whose owners have affixed a decal of Calvin (of
> the defunct comic strip Calvin and Hobbes) peeing. I have a
> number of questions about this. First of all, were these stickers
> approved by C&H creator Bill Watterson? If not, what is his
> want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
>
Bill Watterson, after a nasty little argument with the Universal Press
Syndicate over his (perfectly undrstandable) non-desire to merchandise
Calvin and Hobbes, recieved back all merchandising rights. There is no
authorized merchandising of Calvin and Hobbes. This is taken from the
brilliant tenth-anniversary collection.
As form your second question: morons.
Regards,
Joseph
--
"i don't have to put up with this shabby crap--i'm a
journalist!" --transmetropolitan
Dutch Courage
>You got me on this one. Who???
>
>-- Geno (un-hip, I guess)
World's toughest milkman.
Dutch "I thought I told you to shut up!" Courage.
Dana Carpender
Big Iron5 wrote:
> [[> Second, who in his right mind would
> >want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?]]
>
> I always enjoy seeing Reid Fleming piss on things.
You have a curious idea of fun.
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, _How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet and Lost Forty Pounds!_
Hold the Toast Press
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Glenn Rice
>
> bret...@aol.com (Brettster) writes:
> > Second, who in his right mind would
> >want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
>
> on a Chevy logo, Browns fans get Calvin peeing on a Steeler, OSU fans get him
> peeing on Michigan. Generally this sort of thing is more popular among the side
> that kind of sucks.
>
I've been thinking of getting one of those peeing Calvin stickers AND a
confederate flag sticker, and making the obvious association.
However, the thought of some redneck "keying" my truck in a parking lot
keeps me from going through with it.
Glenn Rice
Epiphyllum: <www.missouri.edu/~extgrice/nbc>
| "If I can't dance, I don't want to be |
| part of your revolution." (Emma Goldman) |
Dutch Courage
>Dutch Courage wrote:
>>
>> bret...@aol.com (Brettster) writes:
>> > Second, who in his right mind would
>> >want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
>>
>> It's not their car, it's the other brand of car. Ford people get Calvin
>peeing
>> on a Chevy logo, Browns fans get Calvin peeing on a Steeler, OSU fans get
>him
>> peeing on Michigan. Generally this sort of thing is more popular among the
>side
>> that kind of sucks.
>>
>
>
>
>I've been thinking of getting one of those peeing Calvin stickers AND a
>confederate flag sticker, and making the obvious association.
>
>However, the thought of some redneck "keying" my truck in a parking lot
>keeps me from going through with it.
Heh, that rules. You know, the confederate flag is derived from the way people
in the South sign their names.
Rowe
Glenn Rice wrote:
> I've been thinking of getting one of those peeing Calvin stickers AND a
> confederate flag sticker, and making the obvious association.
>
> However, the thought of some redneck "keying" my truck in a parking lot
> keeps me from going through with it.
>
>
I'd like to get one of those peeing Calvin stickers and put "originality" under it.
RastaMan-1stClass
> Heh, that rules. You know, the confederate flag is derived from the way
people
> in the South sign their names.
I don't know if its been said, but in some southern states (FL included),
the "Peeing Calvin" stickers are actually illegal. There was a newspaper
article a few years back, it has something to do with obscenity. You still
see a few around, though not as often. See? The south sucks, they (FL)
banned The Doors, 2liveCrew and other "indecent acts".
Neil
Ahhhh Florida didn't do anything. It was individual cities
that banned the things in question. And IIRC 2LiveCrew won
the court case. Jim Morrison even attended FSU for a short
time, when it was know as the Berkeley of the south.
*Sigh* I think this place needs a riot.
Briar Rose
>bret...@aol.com (Brettster) writes:
>>First of all, were these stickers
>>approved by C&H creator Bill Watterson?
Nope. There was an article in either the LA Times or the AAA magazine
a few months ago about a guy who got busted for selling these at a
swap meet. Apparently, he claimed that he was the manufacturer, which
got him busted on some kind of fraud charges, although he lied about
being the manufacturer and was really only a retailer. Hmm, now that
I think about the spin on the article, it may have been in High Times,
in which case I can pinpoint the month to December, although I don't
have it anymore to check the details.
>>Second, who in his right mind would
>>want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
>I can't explain why someone wants a decal of Calvin peeing.
I can't explain it either. I'll note that Calvin is generally shown as
peeing on something _other_ than the owner's car: Ford owners have him
soiling a Chevy Logo, Hondas have him whizzing on Toyota, etc. There is
one that makes me laugh - it's the one with him tinkling on the words
"La Migra."
>I guess it's the
>same mentality that puts a bumper sticker on the vehicle that says, "How's my
>driving? If you have any complaints dial 1-800-EAT SHIT".
Seems plausible to me.
:) Connie-Lynne
--
"You're every bit the detective that your followers
on the Internet make you out to be."
--Brainiac, "Superman: Knight Time"
Gilbert George Neal
>
> Glenn Rice (extg...@showme.missouri.edu) wrote:
> : I've been thinking of getting one of those peeing Calvin stickers AND a
> : confederate flag sticker, and making the obvious association.
> :
> : However, the thought of some redneck "keying" my truck in a parking lot
> : keeps me from going through with it.
>
> who made small green stickers with white letters that said "FROM", with
> colors and font to match the "ESCAPE TO WISCONSIN" bumper sticker. The
> second are the slightly larger round white stickers with a picture of
> either a baseball or a large wood screw on it, for the people with those
> annoying bumper-stickers that have 'I <heart> my <dog-head>'.
>
> --
> Huey
> <screw> <ball>
So who won the battle between the fish and the fish with legs?
Gary S. Callison
Gary S. Callison
: So who won the battle between the fish and the fish with legs?
If yer in Kansas, ya gotta have BOTH.
--
Huey
...or is that 'neither'?
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> rad...@bigfoot.commmmmmmm writes:
>
> >On 10 Sep 1999 05:57:16 GMT, bigi...@aol.com (Big Iron5) wrote:
> >>I always enjoy seeing Reid Fleming piss on things.
> >
> >
> >You got me on this one. Who???
> >
> >-- Geno (un-hip, I guess)
>
>
> World's toughest milkman.
> Dutch "I thought I told you to shut up!" Courage.
George just got unplonked for knowing that.
M.
Louann Miller
<g...@oup-usa.org> wrote:
>So who won the battle between the fish and the fish with legs?
Still ongoing, with both sides bringing in allies. There's one with a
fish swallowing a smaller fish-with legs. Others include:
Fish with blissed-out expression (fish body labeled PROZAC or BEER)
Fish with star-of-david eye (GEFELTE)
Very fat fish (BUDDHA)
Shark fish (LAWYER)
Fish with cow udder (HINDU)
Bill Baldwin
>I'd like to get one of those peeing Calvin stickers and put "originality"
under it.
I'd be willing to do that if someone else did it first.
Big Iron5
>> [[> Second, who in his right mind would
> >want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?]]
>>
>> I always enjoy seeing Reid Fleming piss >>on things.
>You have a curious idea of fun.
Yes, I do.
Dennis Matheson
>>snip<<
>Fish with blissed-out expression (fish body labeled PROZAC or BEER)
>Fish with star-of-david eye (GEFELTE)
>Very fat fish (BUDDHA)
>Shark fish (LAWYER)
>Fish with cow udder (HINDU)
Fish with tentacles (CTHULHU)
--
"You can't run away forever; but there's nothing wrong with getting a good
head start." --- Jim Steinman
Dennis Matheson --- den...@mountaindiver.com
Hike, Dive, Ski, Climb --- http://www.mountaindiver.com
JoAnne Schmitz
>I can't explain why someone wants a decal of Calvin peeing. I guess it's the
>same mentality that puts a bumper sticker on the vehicle that says, "How's my
>driving? If you have any complaints dial 1-800-EAT SHIT".
My favorite bumper sticker sighting was of a car with this on one side, and "XXX
School Students have *Class*" (*Class* written in swirly script to imply
something, um, classy) on the other.
-JoAnne
Geoduck
<den...@mountaindiver.com> wrote:
>Louann Miller wrote in message <37d95d03...@news.smu.edu>...
>>>snip<<
>>Fish with blissed-out expression (fish body labeled PROZAC or BEER)
>>Fish with star-of-david eye (GEFELTE)
>>Very fat fish (BUDDHA)
>>Shark fish (LAWYER)
>>Fish with cow udder (HINDU)
>
>
>Fish with tentacles (CTHULHU)
There's also one that goes back to the original shape, but says "N
CHIPS" inside.
--
Geoduck
geo...@usa.net
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Alan Hoyle
>> I can't recall hearing his opinion of the subject, if he's given
>> one....
> He tells his opinion of C&H knock-offs in one of the later C&H books.
> I own it, but can't recall the title off-hand. He mentions that the
> only authorized C&H products are the books and the comics themselves;
> T-shirts, stickers, etc. are all bootlegs.
Found it, but I'm not going to type it in....
_The Calvin and Hobbes Tenth Anniversary Book_ 0-8362-0438-7
"Licensing" pp 10-12
-alan
--
Alan Hoyle - al...@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate: Ring of Fire - Elvis Needs Boats
RastaMan-1stClass
people get Calvin peeing
> on a Chevy logo, Browns fans get Calvin peeing on a Steeler, OSU fans get
him
> peeing on Michigan. Generally this sort of thing is more popular among the
side
On one truck, I saw a Calvin peeing on...another Calvin (reversed image).
deepstblu
playing card theme and making it "I <club> my <dog-head>".
Rick "the vet <spade> my cats" B.
JoAnne Schmitz
wrote:
>Nice. I have two favorites of my own. The first one I liked are the people
>who made small green stickers with white letters that said "FROM", with
>colors and font to match the "ESCAPE TO WISCONSIN" bumper sticker. The
>second are the slightly larger round white stickers with a picture of
>either a baseball or a large wood screw on it, for the people with those
>annoying bumper-stickers that have 'I <heart> my <dog-head>'.
Heart can be replaced with Spade (spayed) or Club (as in baby seal). No one
seems to have come up with a good use for the Diamond symbol, so we're not yet
playing with a full deck.
-JoAnne
Luke!
...and I've seen TWO Hondas with Calvin peeing on a Honda logo...
--
Luke Gattuso - Lousy email: dogw...@hotmail.com
Lousy web page: http://www.csun.edu/~lg42537
Other lousy web page: http://home.earthlink.net/~weaselbox
Luke!
to hand out "D.A.R.E. to keep kids off drugs" stickers which, with a
little effort -and a 2nd sticker- could be changed to:
"A.R.F. to keep dogs off rugs."
Luke!
wrote:
>My favorite bumper sticker sighting was of a car with this on one side, and "XXX
>School Students have *Class*" (*Class* written in swirly script to imply
>something, um, classy) on the other.
Where's this XXX school? Are all models over eighteen years of age?
WhitePunksOnDope
>
>My favorite bumper sticker sighting was of a car with this on one side, and
>"XXX
>School Students have *Class*" (*Class* written in swirly script to imply
>something, um, classy) on the other.
I saw a bumper sticker today which appeared to be serious (from a Baptist
church)
"Get On Your Knees For Jesus, Not The Law"
It did not feature a representation of Mary Magdalene in a provocative pose.
Reminds me of an old confusing bumper sticker "Where Do You Stand On The
Bible?"
F.Waybill
Goalie2
<Methad...@work.com> wrote:
In one of Watterson's C&H collections (probably the last) he gives his
reasons. He didn't want anyone else determining the 'reality' of
Hobbes with plush dolls, among other things. He also fought very hard
to keep creative control of his work, but when he realized that he
couldn't force every single newspaper to accept his format, he quit.
I picked up an early book and read it again, and found for some reason
that I didn't like it, and couldn't see why I used to.
I lament 'Bloom County' being gone, when it was more or less a
political strip cartoon, not the freaky later ones (i forget what it
was called even in its Sunday-only format.
>On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:49:19 GMT, rad...@bigfoot.commmmmmmm wrote:
>
>Just for the record, any non print type Calvin and Hobbes merchandise
>are knock-offs.. I believe that mr Watterson was avidly against
>marketing C&H in that way..
>
>Can anyone Cite anything in print.. I knew I read it somewhere..
>
>Chris
>
>
>>
>>
>>I loved C&H, early on. But when Watterson returned from his leave-of-absence,
>>Calvin had changed. Instead of being an imaginative little kid, he became a
>>brooding little philosopher = not as much fun. That was a shame. It was almost
>>as if Watterson'd had a powerful near-death experience, instead of a sabbatical,
>>while he was gone.
>>
>> -- Geno
Luke!
>political strip cartoon, not the freaky later ones (i forget what it
>was called even in its Sunday-only format.
It was Outland, and I think it got better as time went on, but never
quite matched Bloom County.
Goalie2
>I used to work at an elementary school, and the D.A.R.E. officer used
>to hand out "D.A.R.E. to keep kids off drugs" stickers which, with a
>little effort -and a 2nd sticker- could be changed to:
>
>"A.R.F. to keep dogs off rugs."
One of the funniest bumper sticker alteration I ever saw was with
Jack-in-the-Box stickers.
During the last election, they gave out "Vote for Jack" stickers.
Then, after the election, they gave out "Don't blame me, I voted for
Jack" stickers. One guy had fixed one on his truck so it said, "Don't
blame me, I jack off"
Al Yellon
>wrote:
>
>>Nice. I have two favorites of my own. The first one I liked are the people
>>who made small green stickers with white letters that said "FROM", with
>>colors and font to match the "ESCAPE TO WISCONSIN" bumper sticker.
I've also seen people cut off the letters "WISCON" from this bumper sticker,
so it reads:
"ESCAPE TO SIN"
Dutch Courage
>I lament 'Bloom County' being gone, when it was more or less a
>political strip cartoon,
Another humorless liberal, Berke Breathed.
> not the freaky later ones (i forget what it
>was called even in its Sunday-only format.
Outland.
"There is no land beyond the law, where tyrants rule with unshakable power.
It is but a dream from which the evil wake to face their fate, their
terrifying hour."
-Wesley Dodds.
Carl Fink
>
>I loved C&H, early on. But when Watterson returned from his leave-of-absence,
>Calvin had changed. Instead of being an imaginative little kid, he became a
>brooding little philosopher = not as much fun. That was a shame. It was almost
>as if Watterson'd had a powerful near-death experience, instead of a sabbatical,
>while he was gone.
You apparently don't realize that both "Calvin" and "Hobbes" come
from Watterson's knowledge of philosophy? He was always more than
just a straightforward six-year-old.
(And Miss Wormwood's name comes from CS Lewis.)
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
"This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy."
-Martin Luther on Copernicus' theory that the Earth orbits the sun
Bill Baldwin
>You apparently don't realize that both "Calvin" and "Hobbes" come
>from Watterson's knowledge of philosophy? He was always more than
>just a straightforward six-year-old.
Yeah, but he casts Calvin as a fatalist, which is a total misrepresentation of
the Reformer. I expect more from my comic strips. (Although if the strip is
actually from Hobbes' point of view, that may be close to Hobbes' caricature
of Calvin. That's an interesting though I hadn't considered before.)
>(And Miss Wormwood's name comes from CS Lewis.)
From the demon nephew of Screwtape, one of the Hell's more experienced demons.
I didn't realize this. Is this something Watterson has said in print? What
else am I missing? (No points for making any obvious jokes in response.)
Randy Poe
> number of questions about this. First of all, were these stickers
> approved by C&H creator Bill Watterson?
No, he did not do any merchandising deals at all, so all
C & H merchandise is bootleg.
> If not, what is his
> take on the phenomenon? Second, who in his right mind would
> want a decal of Calvin peeing, let alone on their car?
As any attempt to reply will get me going with stereotyped
generalizations about the redneck local residents of
my area, I'll keep quiet on this one.
- Randy
Dana Carpender
Dennis Matheson wrote:
> Louann Miller wrote in message <37d95d03...@news.smu.edu>...
> >>snip<<
> >Fish with blissed-out expression (fish body labeled PROZAC or BEER)
> >Fish with star-of-david eye (GEFELTE)
> >Very fat fish (BUDDHA)
> >Shark fish (LAWYER)
> >Fish with cow udder (HINDU)
>
> Fish with tentacles (CTHULHU)
A favorite bumper sticker: Cthulu for President -- Why vote for the lesser
evil?
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, _How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet and Lost Forty Pounds!_
Hold the Toast Press
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Dana Carpender
"Luke!" wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:56:29 GMT, jsch...@qis.net (JoAnne Schmitz)
> wrote:
>
> >My favorite bumper sticker sighting was of a car with this on one side, and "XXX
> >School Students have *Class*" (*Class* written in swirly script to imply
> >something, um, classy) on the other.
>
> Where's this XXX school? Are all models over eighteen years of age?
>
Aren't you dying to see their cheerleader's uniforms?
tm...@jump.net
Cocoanut Headed MF'er <Methad...@work.com> wrote:
>Just for the record, any non print type Calvin and Hobbes merchandise
>are knock-offs.. I believe that mr Watterson was avidly against
>marketing C&H in that way..
>
>Can anyone Cite anything in print.. I knew I read it somewhere..
(Please trim your quotes to the minimum amount needed to establish
context, and please reply *after* the text you're quoting, as here.)
This is what I wrote on a mailing list in late July; I don't know if
the URLs are still valid.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Bill Watterson has a short essay on his views of licencing at
http://www.okidoki.com/calvin_and_hobbes/license.htm . In short, he
has "several problems with licensing:"
- "usually cheapens the original creation"
- "rarely respect how a comic strip works"
- "requires a staff of assistants ... overseeing the production of
things he does not create"
- "a deeper issue: the corruption of a strip's integrity ...
My strip is about private realities, the magic of imagination, and
the specialness of certain friendships. Who would believe in the
innocence of a little kid and his tiger if they cashed in on their
popularity to sell overpriced knickknacks that nobody needs? Who
would trust the honesty of the strip's observations when the
characters are hired out as advertising hucksters? If I were to
undermine my own characters like this, I would have taken the rare
privilege of being paid to express my own ideas and given it up to
be an ordinary salesman and a hired illustrator. I would have
sold out my own creation. I have no use for that kind of
cartooning.
After a great deal of struggle with his syndicate, "The exploitation
rights to the strip were returned to me, and I will not license
'Calvin and Hobbes'."
The official site at http://www.calvinandhobbes.com/ has a Merchandise
link, but the only merchanise offered are the books of collections of
strips.
Please, all, respect the strongly-expressed wishes (and legal rights)
of the creator and do not buy fraudulent Calvin and Hobbes
merchandise.
--
*** NEW HOME E-MAIL ADDRESS ***
Tim McDaniel (home); Reply-To: tm...@jump.net;
if that fail, my work addresses are tm...@austin.ibm.com and tm...@us.ibm.com.
tm...@tmcd.austin.tx.us is a lie; tm...@crl.com is old and will go away.
StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>
>>On one truck, I saw a Calvin peeing on...another Calvin (reversed image).
>
>...and I've seen TWO Hondas with Calvin peeing on a Honda logo...
I saw a minivan of uncertain pedigree with Calvin peeing...period. Not
on anything, or even near anything...
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information,
and information on which artists do and do not want their
work posted!
http://home.icubed.net/starchsr/table.htm
Address munged for the inconvienence of spammers:
My address is starchsr <at> icubed dot net
Carl Fink
>
>Knew that, yes. Point is, though, philosophy overtook fun most of the time, in
>the last -- what -- year or two of the strip's existence.
I didn't feel that way at all.
Carl Fink
>
>Yeah, but he casts Calvin as a fatalist, which is a total misrepresentation of
>the Reformer.
I thought the Reformer was Luther? (I'm no Christian, but didn't
Luther and his protest come first?)
We had this discussion. I posted a cite showing that Calvin was in
fact a determinist. At least on my server, no replies from you
showed up.
The strip's Hobbes hardly thinks of life as nasty and brutish.
Bill Baldwin
>Bill Baldwin wrote:
>>
>>Yeah, but he casts Calvin as a fatalist, which is a total misrepresentation
>>of the Reformer.
>
>I thought the Reformer was Luther? (I'm no Christian, but didn't
>Luther and his protest come first?)
One might refer to Luther as THE Reformer. And indeed Calvin is his younger
contemporary. But if you want to collect all the Reformer action figures,
you'll at least need Calvin and Beza and Zwingli and Bullinger and Knox.
And if I were to pick a single representative, it would be John Calvin.
Luther's influence is expressed in Lutheranism (oddly enough). It was John
Calvin's theology that took over the rest of Protestant Europe and became
stamped with the label "Reformed." The Huguenots massacred by the papists on
St. Bartholomew's Day were Calvinistic Reformed sorts. The Dutch who produced
the Reformed Church in Holland with its Heidelberg Catechism were
Calvinistically Reformed. John Knox, who fought for Reformed and Presbyterian
theology in Scotland consulted extensively with Calvin, but not with Luther.
The Westminster Divines who produced the Westminster Confession of Faith were
self-consciously Calvinistic. All of these groups would have acknowledged a
debt of gratitude to Luther. But the reformer whose theology most clearly
informed their own was John Calvin.
>We had this discussion. I posted a cite showing that Calvin was in
>fact a determinist.
Third time's the charm, eh Carl? I don't recall what you posted, but it was
either something you would call deterministic because you're confused about
what determinism means or because you misinterpreted what Calvin was saying or
because you felt determinism was the logical implication of what Calvin was
saying even though he denied that. (Determinism is different from fatalism, by
the way, although they can be related. What I claimed above was that Watterson
portrayed Calvin as a fatalist. But that's ok. Calvin was neither a
determinist nor a fatalist.)
Calvin denied being a determinist. Vigorously. You may consult, among many
other places, his _Institutes of the Christian Religion_, Book I, ch. xvi,
section 8 ("The doctrine of providence is no Stoic belief in fate.") Now you
may say if you like that Calvin didn't want to admit the implications of his
own system. That's fine and dandy, although I think you'd concede you're not
enough of a Calvin scholar to put up much of a fight. (And I can say a lot
about the implications of the philosophical systems you seem to prefer.)
But that's quite different from saying Calvin stepped up to the plate and
said: "I'm a determinist. The Bible teaches determinism." Characterizations of
Calvin as a determinist are widespread. I'm sure they're easy to find in basic
textbooks. (Heck, Max Weber's easily disprovable thesis about the Calvinist
work ethic is still disseminated as truth everywhere.) But the people who make
these characterizations appear not to have read Calvin himself. Or at least
not to have listened. He's a popular whipping boy, y'know.
D. P. Roberts
>so it reads:
>
>"ESCAPE TO SIN"
Let's not forget the ever-popular "Six Fags over ______"
Big Iron5
of
>the Reformer.
I thought the Reformer was Luther? (I'm no Christian, but didn't
Luther and his protest come first?)
We had this discussion. I posted a cite showing that Calvin was in
fact a determinist. At least on my server, no replies from you
showed up.
The strip's Hobbes hardly thinks of life as nasty and brutish.}} Carl Fink
All righty, guys -- pending direct Sam quotes to the contrary, I think it's
obvious that the names are simply a play on the names of the philosophers, and
that there is no serious connection between the works of each philosopher and
the actions and statements of the two characters. And Lewis isn't the only
place the unpalatable-sounding word "wormwood" has appeared.
That reminds me of a college lit class I had years ago, when one of the
students had this very detailed (and strained)theory relating aspects of
Faulkner's "The Sound and the Fury" with the Shake passage from which the title
came. Midway through, one of the brighter students became exasperated and
semi-yelled at him: "You ... you ... you're a STRUCTURALIST!"
The Prof chuckled softly and said, "Now, now, no name-calling," with a smile.
Matthew W. Miller
>On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:45:00 -0400, Gilbert George Neal
><g...@oup-usa.org> wrote:
>>So who won the battle between the fish and the fish with legs?
>Still ongoing, with both sides bringing in allies. There's one with a
>fish swallowing a smaller fish-with legs.
The originals, of course, were fish logos that people would draw as
graffiti, with the legend 'ICHTHUS' (that is, 'FISH') written inside.
The Greek letters I-X-Theta-Y-Sigma stood for 'Iesous Christos, Theou
Uios, Soter' ('Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior'). Thus it is symbolic of
Christianity in Roman times, when Christians had to hide their beliefs
with secret codes and clever distortions lest they be persecuted by the
Romans.
Of course, one could suggest that the current spate of
car-decoration fish that just say 'JESUS' -- or have a large 'ICHTHUS'
fish swallowing a smaller 'DARWIN' fish -- with their lack of either
subtlety or politeness, are all too symbolic of Christianity in the
present day, but that sort of blather should probably be saved for
alt.comics.jack-chick .
--
Matthew W. Miller -- ma...@infinet.com
Majormd
in
the last -- what -- year or two of the strip's existence]] - Radio
I'll agree that that happened on the Sunday strips, but the weekday strips were
still funny. The strips later featured in the "Deranged Mutant Snowmen" book
came just a few weeks into his return IIRC.
- Sue from El Paso
(to e-mail eliminate .kilspam)
N Jill Marsh
> I've also seen people cut off the letters "WISCON" from this bumper sticker,
> so it reads:
> "ESCAPE TO SIN"
Which American state has "You've got a friend in...." on its plates?
(Maybe Pennsylvania?) I saw one a few years ago with a bumper sticker
underneath it that read "But it's not me."
njm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coating yourself with menstrual blood, naked, under the 13th full moon
of the year and performing the Grand Rite while 12 of your best friends
beat you with birch and nettles while singing *I Know What Boys Like*.
THAT, my friend, is a night out. --Keith Alexander, on rec.arts.bodyart
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lynn Star
>(Maybe Pennsylvania?) I saw one a few years ago with a bumper sticker
>underneath it that read "But it's not me."
>
Yep, that's my state. Therefore, I know this. The old ones say "The Keystone
State." I think that's a great bumper sticker, but I wouldn't put one on my
car, just because I'm a friendly person. (Or so I like to think, anyway...)
Lynn Star
Mi petit estrallita
Carl Fink
[much snipped]
> . . . But the reformer whose theology most clearly
>informed their own was John Calvin.
Fair enough. I suppose I was thinking of precedence, rather than
influence.
>Third time's the charm, eh Carl?
Second.
>Calvin denied being a determinist. Vigorously. You may consult, among many
>other places, his _Institutes of the Christian Religion_, Book I, ch. xvi,
>section 8 ("The doctrine of providence is no Stoic belief in fate.")
Well, actually the amount of time I have for research is limited.
> . . . the people who make
>these characterizations appear not to have read Calvin himself. Or at least
>not to have listened. He's a popular whipping boy, y'know.
I haven't read Calvin, as I think I made clear. What I'm referring
to is his widely-referenced belief that the Lord predetermines who
will enter Heaven regardless of anyone's acts, because no one could
actually "qualify" since we're all such sinners.
Now, everyone except you that I've ever read might be wrong about
this, but that's what I read.
Bill Baldwin
>I haven't read Calvin, as I think I made clear. What I'm referring
>to is his widely-referenced belief that the Lord predetermines who
>will enter Heaven regardless of anyone's acts, because no one could
>actually "qualify" since we're all such sinners.
Ah, then it was my first guess. That's not determinism, to say nothing of
fatalism.
Yes, Calvin taught predestination. Augustine taught predestination. Paul
taught predestination. So did Jesus. So did the prophets. None of them were
determinists or fatalists.
Calvin taught more than that. He taught that God had from all eternity out of
his mere good pleasure and for his own glory foreordained everything that
happens. He taught that God was never inactive in preserving and governing all
his creatures and all their actions.
Calvin also taught that Adam had free will before he fell. (The single biggest
mistake people -- and textbooks are included in this for all I know -- make
about Calvin is the idea that he didn't believe in free will BECAUSE he
believed God had predestined everything. This is false. For Calvin, free will
was not a theoretical impossibility; it was something Adam had, but lost when
he chose, freely, to sin.) Calvin also taught, as may be inferred from the
above, that God had foreordained the sin that Adam had freely chosen. Calvin
recognized the tension in such a statement -- he'd be a fool not to -- but
believed that this was the locus of a great mystery about the sovereignty of
God, the responsibility of man, and the non-coercive ways God has of executing
his decrees.
Before the fall Adam had the ability to choose either good or evil with no
absolute inclination of his nature toward one or the other. After the fall
Adam, and his posterity with him, lost any native ability to choose the good;
but neither he nor we lost our freedom to choose. The will always chooses
according to the nature; and the nature, having become corrupt, chose
corruptly. Nevertheless all Adam's postlapsarian choices and those of his
posterity were, according to Calvin, voluntary, responsible, and real. They
were not coerced or manipulated by God in any way.
I can see how a cursory glance at the most controversial part of Calvin's
teaching might give one the impression that it logically entails determinism.
That's a common Philosophy 101 mistake. Don't get me wrong. There are also
those who have studied the matter very carefully who come to the same
conclusion. But even they wouldn't say that Calvin was consciously and
deliberately deterministic. They would simply allege that this was an
inescapable consequence to his theology, even though he denied it.
Rilchiam
>in
I liked Calvin's dad's rants in the last year or two. "Is "Crunchy Peanut
Butter" crunchy enough, or should I get "Extra Crunchy"? *I* know: I'll drive
around to every store in town and compare prices, sizes, consistencies!" Mom:
"Did the manager have to talk to you again?"
Remember, I'm pulling for you; we're all in this together. ---Red Green
Alan Hoyle
I remember seeing more than a few "elect BATMAN to congress" stickers.
-alan
--
Alan Hoyle - al...@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate: Ring of Fire - Elvis Needs Boats
Glenn Rice
>
> Of course, one could suggest that the current spate of
> car-decoration fish that just say 'JESUS' -- or have a large 'ICHTHUS'
> fish swallowing a smaller 'DARWIN' fish
The Jesus fish swallowing the Darwin fish-with-legs design always makes
me laugh -- inadvertent illustration of the Darwinian notion of survival
of the fittest....
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> The Jesus fish swallowing the Darwin fish-with-legs design always makes
> me laugh -- inadvertent illustration of the Darwinian notion of survival
> of the fittest....
It isn't inadvertent; that's the point. Of course, yes, it does seem
like a self-defeating point...
M.
Bill Baldwin
>The Jesus fish swallowing the Darwin fish-with-legs design always makes
>me laugh -- inadvertent illustration of the Darwinian notion of survival
>of the fittest....
You seem to think they've inadvertently conceded a point which destroys or at
least weakens their thesis. No one denies differential selection, colloquially
called survival of the fittest. What non-evolutionists deny is that
differential selection can account for macro-evolution given the amount of
time available, the fossil record, and what we understand of biology and
paleo-biology.
Marie Martinek
>On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:45:00 -0400, Gilbert George Neal
><g...@oup-usa.org> wrote:
>
>
>>So who won the battle between the fish and the fish with legs?
>
>Still ongoing, with both sides bringing in allies. There's one with a
>
>Fish with blissed-out expression (fish body labeled PROZAC or BEER)
>Fish with star-of-david eye (GEFELTE)
>Very fat fish (BUDDHA)
>Shark fish (LAWYER)
>Fish with cow udder (HINDU)
>
Fish with monkey wrench (EVOLVE!)
Marie Martinek
P. O. Box 172
Northbrook, IL 60065
mv-ma...@nwu.edu
William C Waterhouse
> Glenn Rice <extg...@showme.missouri.edu> writes:
>
> > The Jesus fish swallowing the Darwin fish-with-legs design always makes
> > me laugh -- inadvertent illustration of the Darwinian notion of survival
> > of the fittest....
>
Actually, I think a large fish swallowing a small animal is very
seldom eliminating a competitor for the same resources. It is
simply a predator that lives off its prey.
William C. Waterhouse
Penn State
Glenn Rice
Well of course. you can read it that way, too.... but I don't think it's
as funny that way
Teg Pipes
> >"ESCAPE TO SIN"
> I've seen TEXAS A&M alumni stickers reworked to say, "SEX AT A&M".
Douglass College (one of the colleges that comprises Rutgers
University), BTW America's largest women's college, started
this promotional campaign that involved giving all the current
students a bumper sticker that said "Douglass! Yess!".
These were uniformly shortened to "ass! Yess!" and plastered
all over campus.
-Teg
The Avocado Avenger
>In one of Watterson's C&H collections (probably the last) he gives his
>reasons. He didn't want anyone else determining the 'reality' of
>Hobbes with plush dolls, among other things. He also fought very hard
>to keep creative control of his work, but when he realized that he
>couldn't force every single newspaper to accept his format, he quit.
But the strip certainly got more bleak and cynical.
>I picked up an early book and read it again, and found for some reason
>that I didn't like it, and couldn't see why I used to.
I had a similar experience, culminating in the selling of all my C&H
books, with no desire ever to read them again. I loved C&H but
Watterson's anger and cynicism really ruined it. He was so afraid of
merchandising ruining the strip that he didn't seem to realize what he was
doing to the strip himself.
>I lament 'Bloom County' being gone, when it was more or less a
>political strip cartoon, not the freaky later ones (i forget what it
>was called even in its Sunday-only format.
"Outland". It was simply bizarre.
Stacia * The Avocado Avenger * Life is a tale told by an idiot;
http://www.io.com/~stacia/ * Full of sound and fury,
There is no guacamole anywhere. * Signifying nothing.
Bill Baldwin
>Douglass College (one of the colleges that comprises Rutgers
Wow. What attracts America's largest women to a certain college? The food? The
lack of judgment? Guys who dig size?
Matt Miller
> Glenn Rice wrote:
> >The Jesus fish swallowing the Darwin fish-with-legs design always makes
> >me laugh -- inadvertent illustration of the Darwinian notion of survival
> >of the fittest....
>
> least weakens their thesis. No one denies differential selection, colloquially
> called survival of the fittest. What non-evolutionists deny is that
> differential selection can account for macro-evolution given the amount of
> time available, the fossil record, and what we understand of biology and
> paleo-biology.
>
>
>
And conveniently never really define what macroevolution means.
And since speciation has been observed what they mean is very unclear.
--
Matt Miller | http://pw2.netcom.com/~matmillr | a.a# 357
EAC Spokesmodel
"Under the rocks and stones
there is water underground."
-The Talking Heads
Carl Fink
>
> . . . Calvin
>recognized the tension in such a statement -- he'd be a fool not to -- but
>believed that this was the locus of a great mystery about the sovereignty of
>God, the responsibility of man, and the non-coercive ways God has of executing
>his decrees.
Okay -- so Calvin was one of those who taught contradictory things,
calling the tension between them a mystery. Fine.
I've actually considered this pretty extensively, because I was once
a physics major. There's an interesting analogy to the
Einstein/Heisenberg conflict over quantum.
Estron
> >. . . for the people with those
> >annoying bumper-stickers that have 'I <heart> my <dog-head>'.
>
> Heart can be replaced with Spade (spayed) or Club (as in baby seal).
The comedian Gallagher (the older one) sold bumper stickers at his shows
as early as 1986 saying "I (spade) My Dog."
--
As always, all opinions are just that.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@tfs.net
Kansas City, Missouri
Bill Baldwin
>Bill Baldwin wrote:
>>
>> . . . Calvin
>>recognized the tension in such a statement -- he'd be a fool not to -- but
>>believed that this was the locus of a great mystery about the sovereignty of
>>God, the responsibility of man, and the non-coercive ways God has of
executing
>>his decrees.
>
>Okay -- so Calvin was one of those who taught contradictory things,
>calling the tension between them a mystery. Fine.
Oh, come on Carl. You gave that maybe 5 seconds thought. You appear to have no
expertise in theology of philosophy. Yet you're willing to make such a
statement. That may be gutsy but it ain't so bright.
>I've actually considered this pretty extensively, because I was once
>a physics major. There's an interesting analogy to the
>Einstein/Heisenberg conflict over quantum.
What would that be?
Bill Baldwin
>Marie Martinek wrote:
>
>> Still ongoing, with both sides bringing in allies. There's one with a
>> fish swallowing a smaller fish-with legs. Others include:
>
>are as popular as they are among the Colorado Springs crowd, considering that
>the stickers uses an analogy of evolution to defend creationism.
Dan, how good of you to drop by. Feel free to catch up on the previous posts
in this thread entirely at your convenience.
Bill Baldwin
>I've seen one around town: Darwin fish being consumed by a larger
>fish labeled "Truth."
>
>I'm hoping to meet the owner of one of those cars someday, so I can
>point out that Darwin's theory has indeed been incorporated into the
>larger body of scientific truth.
That'll work.
Dan Tasman
> Still ongoing, with both sides bringing in allies. There's one with a
> fish swallowing a smaller fish-with legs. Others include:
I always found it amusing that the Jesus-fish-eating-the-Darwin-fish stickers
are as popular as they are among the Colorado Springs crowd, considering that
the stickers uses an analogy of evolution to defend creationism.
--
Dan Tasman tasman (at) verinet.com http://www.cyburbia.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The world is my oyster ... but I can't seem to get it open."
Daria Morgendorfer
WhitePunksOnDope
>Date: Tue, 14 September 1999 12:19 AM EDT
>Message-id: <rtrj6v...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>Marie Martinek wrote:
>
>> Still ongoing, with both sides bringing in allies. There's one with a
>> fish swallowing a smaller fish-with legs. Others include:
>
>I always found it amusing that the Jesus-fish-eating-the-Darwin-fish stickers
>
>are as popular as they are among the Colorado Springs crowd, considering that
>
>the stickers uses an analogy of evolution to defend creationism.
Okay -- what's "the Colorado Springs crowd"?
F.Waybill
Charles Dye
tasman.n0-scams@n0-$pam.verinet.n0-crap.com.n0-junk (Dan Tasman)
wrote:
>Marie Martinek wrote:
>
>> Still ongoing, with both sides bringing in allies. There's one with a
>> fish swallowing a smaller fish-with legs. Others include:
>
>I always found it amusing that the Jesus-fish-eating-the-Darwin-fish stickers
>are as popular as they are among the Colorado Springs crowd, considering that
>the stickers uses an analogy of evolution to defend creationism.
I've seen one around town: Darwin fish being consumed by a larger
fish labeled "Truth."
I'm hoping to meet the owner of one of those cars someday, so I can
point out that Darwin's theory has indeed been incorporated into the
larger body of scientific truth.
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> And conveniently never really define what macroevolution means.
> And since speciation has been observed what they mean is very unclear.
I'm beginning to doubt the whole notion of "species", personally. I
mean, dogs and wolves are different species, but can interbreed and
the hybrids are perfectly fertile.
Evolution I don't doubt at all. If I were God (and I am willing to
admit I might not be), I would still use evolution as the way I made
up cool new animals.
On a related subject, if I were God, most of the megafauna species
from the Ice Age (mammoths, giant tapir, saber-toothed tiger) would
still be around. Dinosaurs would still be extinct. The small ones
are overactive lizards, the large ones are intrusive,
resource-intensive, and smelly.
M.
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> Teg Pipes wrote:
> >Douglass College (one of the colleges that comprises Rutgers
> >University), BTW America's largest women's college....
WARNING: OVERSIZED PEEVE AHEAD!
Douglass College is one of the colleges that composes Rutgers
University, which comprises Douglass and other schools.
> Wow. What attracts America's largest women to a certain college? The food? The
> lack of judgment? Guys who dig size?
[witty rejoinder omitted]
M.
Dr H
On 14 Sep 1999 mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com wrote:
[...]
}
}On a related subject, if I were God, most of the megafauna species
}from the Ice Age (mammoths, giant tapir, saber-toothed tiger) would
}still be around. Dinosaurs would still be extinct. The small ones
}are overactive lizards, the large ones are intrusive,
}resource-intensive, and smelly.
You've smelled a dinosaur? Hmm... maybe you really ARE God...
Dr H
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> On 14 Sep 1999 mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com wrote:
>
> [...]
> }
> }On a related subject, if I were God, most of the megafauna species
> }from the Ice Age (mammoths, giant tapir, saber-toothed tiger) would
> }still be around. Dinosaurs would still be extinct. The small ones
> }are overactive lizards, the large ones are intrusive,
> }resource-intensive, and smelly.
>
> You've smelled a dinosaur?
No, but I haven't smelled a yak, a gorilla, or a Texas A&M cheerleader
either. Some things you just know how they're going to smell.
The mammoths and tapirs probably smelled pretty nasty, but they're
worth it, IMO.
What a great mascot for your team -- the Shelbyville Giant Tapirs...
> Hmm... maybe you really ARE God...
Well, I do seem to have this big "Smite" key on my keyboard. Let
me recommend that you JUST DON'T PISS ME OFF.
M.
Carl Fink
[I wrote]
>>Okay -- so Calvin was one of those who taught contradictory things,
>>calling the tension between them a mystery. Fine.
>
>Oh, come on Carl. You gave that maybe 5 seconds thought. You appear to have no
>expertise in theology of philosophy. Yet you're willing to make such a
>statement. That may be gutsy but it ain't so bright.
I'm no theologian, but frankly this isn't that hard a problem unless
you include the premise that religious ideas must be logically
correct.
And as the son of a philosophy major, I'm not quite so
unsophisticated as you might be thinking. I'm just dismissive of
certain types of thinking.
>>I've actually considered this pretty extensively, because I was once
>>a physics major. There's an interesting analogy to the
>>Einstein/Heisenberg conflict over quantum.
You've surely heard Einstein's famous, "God does not play dice with
the universe." It is a foundation of quantum mechanics that there is
an unremovable randomness in quantum phenomena, something Einstein
found profoundly troubling but could never disprove or get around.
I believe (but can't cite) that Heisenberg was the one who said, "Not
only does God play dice with the universe, he hides the dice." I'm
sure some physicist will pop up soon with the correct quote.
(Note that Einstein explicitly did NOT believe in a personal God like
the one traditional Christians and Jews worship.)
Anton Sherwood
: > Teg Pipes wrote:
: > >Douglass College (one of the colleges that comprises Rutgers
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com writes
: WARNING: OVERSIZED PEEVE AHEAD!
: Douglass College is one of the colleges that composes Rutgers
: University, which comprises Douglass and other schools.
Prescriptivist!
--
Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* http://www.jps.net/antons/
Dan Tasman
> Dan, how good of you to drop by. Feel free to catch up on the previous posts
> in this thread entirely at your convenience.
Excuse me, but my 'Net connection was down for a week before I posted that
message. I guess you never had problems with your ISP or computer before.
On the Internet since 19*8*9,
Dan
Dutch Courage
>On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:24:05 -0700 Bill Baldwin <ju...@micronet.net> wrote:
>[I wrote]
>
>>>Okay -- so Calvin was one of those who taught contradictory things,
>>>calling the tension between them a mystery. Fine.
>>
>>Oh, come on Carl. You gave that maybe 5 seconds thought. You appear to have
>no
>>expertise in theology of philosophy. Yet you're willing to make such a
>>statement. That may be gutsy but it ain't so bright.
Um...it occurs to me most theological arguments that attempt to reconcile the
contradictions of Christian dogma, such as "If God is omniscient and
omnipotent, how can we have free will?" amount to "God has fancy space powers,
so he can do what he wants."
>
>I'm no theologian, but frankly this isn't that hard a problem unless
>you include the premise that religious ideas must be logically
>correct.
>
>And as the son of a philosophy major, I'm not quite so
>unsophisticated as you might be thinking. I'm just dismissive of
>certain types of thinking.
>
>>>I've actually considered this pretty extensively, because I was once
>>>a physics major. There's an interesting analogy to the
>>>Einstein/Heisenberg conflict over quantum.
>
>You've surely heard Einstein's famous, "God does not play dice with
>the universe."
ObSDnitpick "At any rate, I am convinced He does not play dice," Letter to Max
Born"
> It is a foundation of quantum mechanics that there is
>an unremovable randomness in quantum phenomena, something Einstein
>found profoundly troubling but could never disprove or get around.
>
>I believe (but can't cite) that Heisenberg was the one who said, "Not
>only does God play dice with the universe, he hides the dice."
I was unable to find it, and given what I did see of his writing style
http://sol.slcc.edu/sciences/physics/whatis/quotations.html
http://phyvax.ir.miami.edu:8001/chris/quotes.html
It sounds a little too snappy.
Nb. appearance of AE misquote.
>(Note that Einstein explicitly did NOT believe in a personal God like
>the one traditional Christians and Jews worship.)
"I do not believe in a personal God, and I have never denied this, but
expressed it clearly. If something is in me that can be called religious then
it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our
science can reveal it." A.E., uncited in "Eureka," Michael Macrone, Cader books
1994
"There is no land beyond the law, where tyrants rule with unshakable power.
It is but a dream from which the evil wake to face their fate, their
terrifying hour."
-Wesley Dodds.
Big Iron5
>What a great mascot for your team -- the Shelbyville Giant Tapirs...
I thought it was the Shelbyville Attractive Cousins ...
Luke!
tasman.n0-scams@n0-$pam.verinet.n0-crap.com.n0-junk (Dan Tasman)
wrote:
>On the Internet since 19*8*9,
Hey, you're not fooling me- the Internet didn't exist yet on 19
August, 1909!
--
Luke Gattuso - Lousy email: dogw...@hotmail.com
Lousy web page: http://www.csun.edu/~lg42537
Other lousy web page: http://home.earthlink.net/~weaselbox
Lalbert1
hpstr...@aol.commissar (Dutch Courage) writes:
>>ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink) writes:
>
>
>>You've surely heard Einstein's famous, "God does not play dice with
>>the universe."
>
> ObSDnitpick "At any rate, I am convinced He does not play dice," Letter to
>Max
>Born"
>
>> It is a foundation of quantum mechanics that there is
>>an unremovable randomness in quantum phenomena, something Einstein
>>found profoundly troubling but could never disprove or get around.
>>I believe (but can't cite) that Heisenberg was the one who said, "Not
>>only does God play dice with the universe, he hides the dice."
>
> I was unable to find it, and given what I did see of his writing style
>
>http://sol.slcc.edu/sciences/physics/whatis/quotations.html
>
>http://phyvax.ir.miami.edu:8001/chris/quotes.html
>
> It sounds a little too snappy.
>
>
It was Hawking who said something like,"God not only plays dice, but he plays
blindfolded, and throws the dice where you can't see them". He was referring
to black holes.
Les
mike_williams
> I'm beginning to doubt the whole notion of "species", personally. I
> mean, dogs and wolves are different species, but can interbreed and
> the hybrids are perfectly fertile.
I find it surprising that the notion of species actually works so well in
the majority of cases. When you get down to it, there's really a continuum
of genetic variation between individuals. It's quite possible to have a
group of animals where individual A can interbreed with B, and B with C, but
A can't interbreed with C. It's odd that this situation doesn't happen very
often. When it does happen, the species boundaries are applied in an
arbitrary manner.
With dogs, there are some breeds of dogs that physically can't interbreed
with others due to differences in size, but we consider then all to belong
to one species.
There's a set of gulls that form a "ring species" around the north pole. At
some locations, all the gulls in the vicinity can interbreed with each
other, and with their neighbours to the immediate east and west. However,
it's possible to follow the eastward and westward chains around the globe
until they meet up. At the point where they meet, the accumulated genetic
variation has built up to a point where the two types of gull cannot
interbreed. We consider these gulls to belong to three different species,
rather than being breeds of a single species, but it's hard to see the
difference between this case and the case of the dog.
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of leisure
Ty
>I thought it was the Shelbyville Attractive
>Cousins ... --bob
'Scuze me..? I don't come here very often, so I don't know if this is an
in-joke, but are you referring to Shelbyville, TN? And if so, why?
StoryTyler
Don't you know that people wipe dead squirrels on you out there?!? AAKK!
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> : "Bill Baldwin" <ju...@micronet.net> writes:
> : > Teg Pipes wrote:
> : > >Douglass College (one of the colleges that comprises Rutgers
> : > >University), ...
>
> mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com writes
> : WARNING: OVERSIZED PEEVE AHEAD!
> : Douglass College is one of the colleges that composes Rutgers
> : University, which comprises Douglass and other schools.
>
> Prescriptivist!
And proud of it. In fact, M-W thought Teg's use was jes' fine.
E.B. White agrees with me AND THAT SETTLES IT.
M.
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> With dogs, there are some breeds of dogs that physically can't interbreed
> with others due to differences in size, but we consider then all to belong
> to one species.
Well, if you mate the large-breed male with the small-breed female,
Mom (and Juniors) won't survive gestation; to mate the other way
around, you need like a little footstool.
> There's a set of gulls that form a "ring species" around the north pole. At
> some locations, all the gulls in the vicinity can interbreed with each
> other, and with their neighbours to the immediate east and west.
I love it when someone who sounds as if (unlike me) he knows what he's
talking about agrees with me.
M.
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> >What a great mascot for your team --
> >the Shelbyville Giant Tapirs... --mlorton
>
> >I thought it was the Shelbyville Attractive
> >Cousins ... --bob
>
> 'Scuze me..? I don't come here very often, so I don't know if this is an
> in-joke, but are you referring to Shelbyville, TN? And if so, why?
An in-joke, but not very "in". Shelbyville is the rival city to
Springfield, the Simpsons' hometown. Their team is really called the
Shelbyville Shelbyvillian.
M.
Teg Pipes
> "Bill Baldwin" <ju...@micronet.net> writes:
>
> > Teg Pipes wrote:
> > >Douglass College (one of the colleges that comprises Rutgers
>
> Douglass College is one of the colleges that composes Rutgers
> University, which comprises Douglass and other schools.
My usage is fine. References available upon request.
You'll have to find yourself another grammatical peeve upon
which to harp.
You can use these, if you like, I'm getting tired of yelling
people about them and haven't used any of them in a long time:
"ATM Machine"
"HIV Virus"
"This data doesn't...."
-Teg
StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>
>
>With dogs, there are some breeds of dogs that physically can't interbreed
>with others due to differences in size, but we consider then all to belong
>to one species.
A friend lived across the street from someone who bred
rottweilers...and one day heard a scream of anguish. A chihuahua <I
SWEAR> had gotten into the yard while one of the females who was in
heat was asleep, and...
...goofiest looking dogs you ever saw...
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information,
and information on which artists do and do not want their
work posted!
http://home.icubed.net/starchsr/table.htm
Address munged for the inconvienence of spammers:
My address is starchsr <at> icubed dot net
Bill Baldwin
>>What a great mascot for your team --
>>the Shelbyville Giant Tapirs... --mlorton
>
>>I thought it was the Shelbyville Attractive
>>Cousins ... --bob
>
>'Scuze me..? I don't come here very often, so I don't know if this is an
>in-joke, but are you referring to Shelbyville, TN? And if so, why?
The Shelbyville we're talking about is right next door to Springfield (not the
one in Illinois or Massachusetts). The area needs a gorge nearby and a
mountain. It snows in the winter in that landlocked coastal town. Springfield
is hilly and small, having only one elementary school. It's about 220 miles
away from Capital City. It's most likely west of the Mississippi, since the
radio station call letters start with K (so much for Tennessee).
There are other clues as well.
Anton Sherwood
: > : WARNING: OVERSIZED PEEVE AHEAD!
: > : [about `comprise' vs `compose]
: das...@netcom.com (Anton Sherwood) writes:
: > Prescriptivist!
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com writes
: And proud of it. In fact, M-W thought Teg's use was jes' fine.
: E.B. White agrees with me AND THAT SETTLES IT.
If I remember to check H.W.Fowler tomorrow,
I shan't be a bit surprised if he does too.
Glenn Rice
>
> mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com writes:
> > "Bill Baldwin" <ju...@micronet.net> writes:
> >
> > > Teg Pipes wrote:
> > > >Douglass College (one of the colleges that comprises Rutgers
> > > >University), BTW America's largest women's college....
> >
> > WARNING: OVERSIZED PEEVE AHEAD!
> > Douglass College is one of the colleges that composes Rutgers
> > University, which comprises Douglass and other schools.
>
> My usage is fine. References available upon request.
I'd like to see those references. "Comprises" means "includes" according
to my dictionary.
--
Glenn Rice
Epiphyllum: <www.missouri.edu/~extgrice/nbc>
| "If I can't dance, I don't want to be |
| part of your revolution." (Emma Goldman) |
Lalbert1
feature in address.>" <starch...@my.sig> writes:
>On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:08:21 GMT, Mike Williams wrote:
>
>>
>>With dogs, there are some breeds of dogs that physically can't interbreed
>>with others due to differences in size, but we consider then all to belong
>>to one species.
>
>A friend lived across the street from someone who bred
>rottweilers...and one day heard a scream of anguish. A chihuahua had gotten
>into the yard while one of the females who was in
>heat was asleep, and...
>
>...goofiest looking dogs you ever saw...
>
The mind boggles at the act, and the result. Rotthuahua? Chiweiler?
Les
Asterbark
From: Glenn Rice extg...@showme.missouri.edu:
>
>Teg Pipes wrote:
>>
>> mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com writes:
>> > "Bill Baldwin" <ju...@micronet.net> writes:
>> >
>> > > Teg Pipes wrote:
>> > > >Douglass College (one of the colleges that comprises Rutgers
>> > > >University), BTW America's largest women's college....
>> >
>> > WARNING: OVERSIZED PEEVE AHEAD!
>> > Douglass College is one of the colleges that composes Rutgers
>> > University, which comprises Douglass and other schools.
>>
>> My usage is fine. References available upon request.
>
>
>I'd like to see those references. "Comprises" means "includes" according
>to my dictionary.
>
>
Ahem.***
_Merriam-Webster's_:
com*prise (verb transitive) com*prised; com*pris*ing
[Middle English, from Middle French compris, past participle of comprendre,
from Latin comprehendere]
First appeared 15th Century
1 : to include esp. within a particular scope <civilization as Lenin used the
term would then certainly have comprised the changes that are now associated in
our minds with "developed" rather than "developing" states --Times Lit. Supp.>
2 : to be made up of <a vast installation, comprising fifty buildings --Jane
Jacobs>
3 : COMPOSE, CONSTITUTE <a misconception as to what ~s a literary generation
--William Styron> <about 8 percent of our military forces are comprised of
women --Jimmy Carter>
*** usage Although it has been in use since the late 18th century, sense 3 is
still attacked as wrong. Why it has been singled out is not clear, but until
comparatively recent times it was found chiefly in scientific or technical
writing rather than belles lettres. Our current evidence shows a slight shift
in usage: sense 3 is somewhat more frequent in recent literary use than the
earlier senses. You should be aware, however, that if you use sense 3 you may
be subject to criticism for doing so, and you may want to choose a safer
synonym such as compose or make up.
Astrid
"You can say 'booger' if you want to." ('andy travis')
Dr H
On 14 Sep 1999 mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com wrote:
}Dr H <hiaw...@efn.org> writes:
}
}> On 14 Sep 1999 mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com wrote:
}>
}> [...]
}> }
}> }On a related subject, if I were God, most of the megafauna species
}> }from the Ice Age (mammoths, giant tapir, saber-toothed tiger) would
}> }still be around. Dinosaurs would still be extinct. The small ones
}> }are overactive lizards, the large ones are intrusive,
}> }resource-intensive, and smelly.
}>
}> You've smelled a dinosaur?
}
}No, but I haven't smelled a yak, a gorilla, or a Texas A&M cheerleader
}either. Some things you just know how they're going to smell.
I'm not going to touch that one...
}The mammoths and tapirs probably smelled pretty nasty, but they're
}worth it, IMO.
}
}What a great mascot for your team -- the Shelbyville Giant Tapirs...
}
}> Hmm... maybe you really ARE God...
}
}Well, I do seem to have this big "Smite" key on my keyboard. Let
}me recommend that you JUST DON'T PISS ME OFF.
Can't hurt me, I'm an atheist--nyah, nyah! :-)
Dr H
deepstblu
> A friend lived across the street from someone who bred
> rottweilers...and one day heard a scream of anguish. A chihuahua <I
> SWEAR> had gotten into the yard while one of the females who was in
> heat was asleep, and...
>
> ...goofiest looking dogs you ever saw...
GIF! GIF!
Rick "LOL" B.