Something in Pasta Roni is killing me
David Samuel Barr
>
> I know afca shouldn't be substituted for a doctor, but I don't think
> this is doctor material. Plus, I'm optimistic that some of the bright
> minds here can come up with something interesting.
>
> Off and on, over the years, I have occasionally prepared one of those
> boxed pasta dishes. Like, Pasta Roni or Lipton's Noodles and Sauce.
> These dishes usually involve bringing water and 1-2T butter to a boil,
> dumping in dried noodles, stirring in powder from a pouch, and cooking
> for 8-10 minutes. Remove from heat and let stand until adequately
> congealed. (3-5 min)
>
> Four years or so ago, not sure now, I started feeling really nauseated
> after eating prefab pasta meals. Last year I decided the pasta was
> the cause, but maybe there were other factors. (Butter not fresh
> enough, etc.) Now I think it's the pasta and nothing else. My skull
> pounds, my stomach churns, I can hardly stay awake, and I start
> staggering around looking for a steno pad so I can write a farewell
> note. An hour later I'm mostly OK.
>
> I love pasta and eat it in restaurants and at home from scratch
> without a problem. Creamy, oily, tomatoey, cheesy, pestoey - all are
> fine. What could it be about boxed pasta that makes me feel like I'm
> gonna die?
>
> Soph
>
> P.S. Ingredients from box of "Garlic and Olive Oil with Vermicelli" by
> Pasta Roni are: wheat flour, salt, olive oil, dried garlic,
> maltodextrin, partially hydrogenated soybean oil, corn
> starch-modified, dried onions, dried corn syrup, sodium caseinate,
> dried autolyzed yeast extract, dried parsley, soybean oil, natural
> flavours, corn oil, hydrolyzed soy protein, dried soy sauce (wheat,
> soybeans, salt), sunflower oil, disodium inosinate, disodium
> guanylate, sugar, iron (ferrous sulfate), soybean oil (again!),
> niacin, annatto extract color, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, and
> folic acid.
Actually, I would say this is pretty definitely doctor material. If in
fact you've been able to reliably isolate a direct cause/effect between
the symptoms and the product, it's pretty likely that you're allergic to
one or more of the ingredients (presumably one which isn't usually used
in the fresh preparations that don't bother you), and you should be
tested to see which one(s) that is. It's also ridiculous that you've
let this go on for four years.
Lalbert1
<soph...@fzbzet.zet> writes:
>I know afca shouldn't be substituted for a doctor, but I don't think
>this is doctor material. Plus, I'm optimistic that some of the bright
>minds here can come up with something interesting.
>
>Off and on, over the years, I have occasionally prepared one of those
>boxed pasta dishes. Like, Pasta Roni or Lipton's Noodles and Sauce.
>These dishes usually involve bringing water and 1-2T butter to a boil,
>dumping in dried noodles, stirring in powder from a pouch, and cooking
>for 8-10 minutes. Remove from heat and let stand until adequately
>congealed. (3-5 min)
>
>Four years or so ago, not sure now, I started feeling really nauseated
>after eating prefab pasta meals. Last year I decided the pasta was
>the cause, but maybe there were other factors. (Butter not fresh
>enough, etc.) Now I think it's the pasta and nothing else. My skull
>pounds, my stomach churns, I can hardly stay awake, and I start
>staggering around looking for a steno pad so I can write a farewell
>note. An hour later I'm mostly OK.
>
>I love pasta and eat it in restaurants and at home from scratch
>without a problem. Creamy, oily, tomatoey, cheesy, pestoey - all are
>fine. What could it be about boxed pasta that makes me feel like I'm
>gonna die?
Why play games with your health. See an allergist, or switch to Spaghetti-O's.
Les
Tom Nawrocki
>I suppose I was wondering if anyone knew of common reactions to these
>products (like the way people have war stories over aspartame) or had
>similar tales.
It sounds an awful lot like my reaction to onions, which I posted about several
months ago. For me too, it was something I used to be able to tolerate; in
fact, I used to really love onions.
You have my sympathy.
Tom Nawrocki
Sean Houtman
It does sound like a reaction to something in the box, you can rule out pasta
since you don't have the problem with pasta in Italian restaurants, My
suspicion is something in that bag of powder. You may be having a reaction to
some of the peptides in the hydrolysed yeast, for instance.
Sean
Better yet, dont eat the stuff
Rich Clancey
+ Actually, I would say this is pretty definitely doctor material. If in
+ fact you've been able to reliably isolate a direct cause/effect between
+ the symptoms and the product, it's pretty likely that you're allergic to
+ one or more of the ingredients (presumably one which isn't usually used
+ in the fresh preparations that don't bother you), and you should be
+ tested to see which one(s) that is. It's also ridiculous that you've
+ let this go on for four years.
Well, I can see where you wouldn't really want to march in to
the doctor and announce that Cup O' Soup was killing you slowly. But
it does sound like a food allergy to me, and you owe it to yourself to
find out what to avoid.
--
:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:
rich clancey r...@world.std.com rcla...@massart.edu
"The troublesome ones in a family are usually
either the wits or the idiots."
- George Eliot -
:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:
Deborah
>Better yet, dont eat the stuff
And now, for the obligatory Dumb Joke:
Patient: Doctor, doctor! It hurts every time I do this. (demonstrates)
Doctor: Well, then, don't do that.
Best regards from Deborah
FAQ file: http://members.aol.com/SJF1959/index.html
Found in the in-box: http://in.box.listbot.com
Steve Parker
wrote:
>What could it be about boxed pasta that makes me feel like I'm
>gonna die?
>
>Soph
For my dad it's either the dried garlic and/or the dried onion. We've
narrowed it down to those two items and he doesn't care enough to
narrow it down further. As a weird aside, if I use my dehydrator and
dry garlic or onion it has no effect on him. I'm guessing there's
something about the way they dry it (chemically maybe?) that does it.
Symptoms hit him 1-3 hours after eating.
To test: Try one of those Lipton French Onion Soup mixes.
***>Warning: this test may make you feel like hell at best, and make
you seriously sick or dead at worst. I'd recommend an allergist.
Steve
Dana Carpender
Steve Parker wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2000 05:26:38 -0600, Sophelyn <soph...@fzbzet.zet>
> wrote:
>
> >What could it be about boxed pasta that makes me feel like I'm
> >gonna die?
> >
> >Soph
>
> For my dad it's either the dried garlic and/or the dried onion. We've
> narrowed it down to those two items and he doesn't care enough to
> narrow it down further. As a weird aside, if I use my dehydrator and
> dry garlic or onion it has no effect on him. I'm guessing there's
> something about the way they dry it (chemically maybe?) that does it.
> Symptoms hit him 1-3 hours after eating.
Data point: I had a fairly massive, classical allergic reaction one night
after eating a dinner of Mom's spaghetti and meatballs, salad, garlic
bread, beer, and chocolate chip cookies (clearly, pre-low carb.) Ended
up in the E-room twice in 24 hrs with angioedema, hives, etc. After
thorough testing, we found no proven culprit, and ended up suspecting the
well-aged jar of heavily processed McCormick's garlic paste. I wouldn't
want to try it again.
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet -- And Lost Forty Pounds!
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Check out our FREE Low Carb Ezine!
Llorta
>Four years or so ago, not sure now, I started feeling really nauseated
>after eating prefab pasta meals. Last year I decided the pasta was
>the cause, but maybe there were other factors. (Butter not fresh
>enough, etc.) Now I think it's the pasta and nothing else. My skull
>pounds, my stomach churns, I can hardly stay awake, and I start
>staggering around looking for a steno pad so I can write a farewell
>note. An hour later I'm mostly OK.
This reminds me of an old Hee Haw skit:
HICK: (Bending finger repeatedly) Doc, it hurts when I do like this!
DOCTOR: Well, then, don't DO that!
GrapeApe
MSG.
I was surprised to find out that the main spice in one of my favorite dinners
was this magic flavor powder. I also liked the way it cleared my sinuses.
RM Mentock
> Patient: Doctor, doctor! It hurts every time I do this. (demonstrates)
Ah, I see *we* are feeling better.
--
RM Mentock
The war on ignorance begins with me
http://sentient.home.mindspring.com/dan/
Lalbert1
writes:
>Data point: I had a fairly massive, classical allergic reaction one night
>after eating a dinner of Mom's spaghetti and meatballs, .....
"Mama, mia. These are speecy, spicey meatballs".
Les
David Garcia
> I know afca shouldn't be substituted for a doctor, but I don't
> think this is doctor material. Plus, I'm optimistic that some
> of the bright minds here can come up with something
> interesting.
This isn't doctor material, this is witch doctor material. Or,
more specifically, the kind of stuff for which health food stores
and alternative medicine practitioners are often consulted.
Welcome to the club...
> Four years or so ago, not sure now, I started feeling really
> nauseated after eating prefab pasta meals. Last year I decided
> the pasta was the cause, but maybe there were other factors.
> (Butter not fresh enough, etc.) Now I think it's the pasta and
> nothing else. My skull pounds, my stomach churns, I can hardly
> stay awake, and I start staggering around looking for a steno
> pad so I can write a farewell note. An hour later I'm mostly
> OK.
Try this experiment: On a day when you are able to spend the
afternoon in bed if need be, skip breakfast. Don't drink coffee,
or anything besides water. Around 1PM, have a dry bagel for
lunch. Two, if you so desire. Don't eat anything else for an
hour or two. Keep track of how you feel. Warning: don't operate
heavy machinery, or do anything that could be critical to the
well-being of others during this time.
If, between 1:30 and 6PM, you have the symptoms you associated
with Pasta Roni, then we may be talking about wheat gluten
allergy, I would suspect. This is often a sign of poor diet in
general, and in some cases may helped by the following:
1) Avoid wheat products for a while (as best you can, not
easily done in modern times)
2) Avoid processed foods, esp. things involving pouches
of dried stuff you mix with water and cook on the stove or
microwave.
3) Stay away from restaurants with drive-thru windows.
4) Increase substantially your consumption of fresh
fruits and green leafy vegetables. If this is hard to do, try
canned or frozen fruits. Eat them before the rest of your meal,
not after. Generally, wait ten minutes or so before having the
stuff that's not fruits and green leafy vegetables.
Email me if you wish to pursue this further. By the way, this is
not a substitute for medical advice, this information is offered
for entertainment purposes only, and if you ask my lawyer, he
would tell you the same thing.
David Garcia
d-g...@worldnet.att.net
Richard
David Samuel Barr wrote:
> Actually, I would say this is pretty definitely doctor material. If in
> fact you've been able to reliably isolate a direct cause/effect between
> the symptoms and the product, it's pretty likely that you're allergic to
> one or more of the ingredients (presumably one which isn't usually used
> in the fresh preparations that don't bother you), and you should be
> tested to see which one(s) that is. It's also ridiculous that you've
> let this go on for four years.
Why would a simple food allergy be "doctor material"? What in the world is
a doctor going to do? Perhaps test for it, but then what?
Speaking of someone who has significant food allergies, I've found
allergists and docs pretty universally useless in dealing with my (rather
minor) discomforts from allergic reactions. What they do is test you for
allergies, then tell you what you're allergic to (duh!) and tell you to
avoid those foods. This is something you would be doing anyway, so really
it's a waste of your time, their time and money.
I have heard some good things about making vaccines from sputum to deal with
some allergies, but I'm not sure how advanced this treatment is in terms of
being available to the majority of the population.
In Sophelyn's case, I hazard to bet that you've either developed a
sensitivity to one of the ingredients, or they have started slipping a new
chemical in that wasn't there before; a preservative, a binder, or
something.
When you eat pasta in a restaurant, it's just mushed up grain. Unless you
have a grain allergy (which you'd know about), or an allergy to the sauce,
you would be fine. When you make an "instant" dinner, you're putting that
whole list of ingredients in your body that you aren't when you eat at a
restaurant. Your body thinks that at least one of those ingredients is
absolutely disgusting and doesn't want you to ingest any more. That's why
you feel sick and gross after eating it.
Cordially,
-Richard
W.R. Giacona
"Sophelyn" <soph...@fzbzet.zet> wrote in message
news:oXZ0OGLByIiouo...@4ax.com...
> I know afca shouldn't be substituted for a doctor, but I don't think
> this is doctor material. Plus, I'm optimistic that some of the bright
> minds here can come up with something interesting.
>
> Off and on, over the years, I have occasionally prepared one of those
> boxed pasta dishes. Like, Pasta Roni or Lipton's Noodles and Sauce.
> These dishes usually involve bringing water and 1-2T butter to a boil,
> dumping in dried noodles, stirring in powder from a pouch, and cooking
> for 8-10 minutes. Remove from heat and let stand until adequately
> congealed. (3-5 min)
>
> Four years or so ago, not sure now, I started feeling really nauseated
> after eating prefab pasta meals. Last year I decided the pasta was
> the cause, but maybe there were other factors. (Butter not fresh
> enough, etc.) Now I think it's the pasta and nothing else. My skull
> pounds, my stomach churns, I can hardly stay awake, and I start
> staggering around looking for a steno pad so I can write a farewell
> note. An hour later I'm mostly OK.
>
> I love pasta and eat it in restaurants and at home from scratch
> without a problem. Creamy, oily, tomatoey, cheesy, pestoey - all are
> fine. What could it be about boxed pasta that makes me feel like I'm
> gonna die?
>
> Soph
>
Big David
<snip stuff about Noodle Roni>
> I think I'll take the grumpies to Amazon to see if they still allow
> anon book reviews. Pick innocent little-known book at random, add
"I thought the prose was fresh, it brought us closer to the
character's
experience. But the spanking scenes were uneven, and the point-of-view
shift took us away from what the visiting sharecropper was doing with
the oiled feather. I found myself having to stop to look things up.
But the recipe for cobbler was a wonderful surprise, and thanks to Ma
Ingalls' excellent timeless description I was able to cook it in my
own modern kitchen."
You should warn the audience before engaging in humor. Some very good
ale was wasted out of my nose onto my screen, and now who is going to
clean up this mess you made? Seriously, thats one of the funnier
things I have read since I began monitoring this group. Kudos, Soph,
and I am betting on onion powder, garlic powder or MSG.
--
Big David
"Commit a little mortal sin. It's good for your soul."
To reply, remove spambait
GrapeApe
>moniker "natural flavors" in the product's ingredient list.
If you are allergic, I hope you know the other aliases used for MSG, most of
which I can't recall at the moment. Hydrogenated Soy Protein is fairly obvious.
Most products I know that contain MSG would have it as their primary ingredient
if it were not spread across several aliases in the ingredients list.
Dana Carpender
GrapeApe wrote:
> >BTW, I discovered the hard way that MSG often travels (legally!) under the
> >moniker "natural flavors" in the product's ingredient list.
>
> If you are allergic, I hope you know the other aliases used for MSG, most of
> which I can't recall at the moment. Hydrogenated Soy Protein is fairly obvious.
Uh, that's "hydrolized", though my spelling may be off. "Hydrogenated" refers to
fats, and it's the process by which naturally unsaturated fats are artificially
saturated to make them solid. You know, Crisco and margarine.
Dana
Amy Elizabeth Gleason
Do you have any MSG sensitivity? I can't remember the other name for
MSG, but I'll bet it's in there somewhere, preserving something, and
I'll bet (from your symptoms) that that's the problem. My aunt gets the
same reaction from Chinese food.
L & k,
Amy
Briar Rose
>Do you have any MSG sensitivity? I can't remember the other name for
>MSG, but I'll bet it's in there somewhere, preserving something, and
>I'll bet (from your symptoms) that that's the problem.
I'm not sure what you mean by the "other name" for MSG, but
the only other name I know is "wei jing," which (according to
a Chinese friend) means "concentrated flavor."
:) Connie-Lynne
--
"I'm not here to judge, I'm just here to point and giggle"
-- Hal Sparks, "Talk Soup"
Perry Farmer
-> >Do you have any MSG sensitivity? I can't remember the other name for
-> >MSG, but I'll bet it's in there somewhere, preserving something, and
-> >I'll bet (from your symptoms) that that's the problem.
-> I'm not sure what you mean by the "other name" for MSG, but
-> the only other name I know is "wei jing," which (according to
-> a Chinese friend) means "concentrated flavor."
Possibly commercial names.
Is not a possible problem with products similar to "Stay White",
often used for potatoes, onion rings, etc. causing the dreaded french fry
disease?
-> :) Connie-Lynne
Perry
Joseph Yuska
Briar Rose wrote:
>
> Amy Elizabeth Gleason <glea...@purdue.edu> wrote:
> >Do you have any MSG sensitivity? I can't remember the other name for
> >MSG, but I'll bet it's in there somewhere, preserving something, and
> >I'll bet (from your symptoms) that that's the problem.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by the "other name" for MSG, but
> the only other name I know is "wei jing," which (according to
> a Chinese friend) means "concentrated flavor."
>
> :) Connie-Lynne
> --
I have seen MSG referred to in sevral Chinese cookbooks as "taste
powder" followed by two ideographs. Whether these are the ones referred
to phonetically by your friend I have no clue.
Joe Yuska
Perry Farmer
->
-> On Wed, 12 Jan 2000 01:17:36 GMT, perry....@thefarm.wa.com (Perry
-> Farmer) wrote:
->
-> >-> Amy Elizabeth Gleason <glea...@purdue.edu> wrote:
-> >-> >Do you have any MSG sensitivity? I can't remember the other name for
-> >-> >MSG, but I'll bet it's in there somewhere, preserving something, and
-> >-> >I'll bet (from your symptoms) that that's the problem.
-> >
-> >-> I'm not sure what you mean by the "other name" for MSG, but
-> >-> the only other name I know is "wei jing," which (according to
-> >-> a Chinese friend) means "concentrated flavor."
-> >
-> >Possibly commercial names.
-> >
-> >Is not a possible problem with products similar to "Stay White",
-> >often used for potatoes, onion rings, etc. causing the dreaded french fry
-> >disease?
-> >
->
-> The "stay-white" products are sulfites, rather than MSG. Sulfites in
-> some wines can cause headaches and other side effects in those who are
-> sensitive to the compound.
Exactly, and I would think a possible culprit since it is so widely used.
-> >-> :) Connie-Lynne
Perry
Dana Carpender
Perry Farmer wrote:
> -> Amy Elizabeth Gleason <glea...@purdue.edu> wrote:
> -> >Do you have any MSG sensitivity? I can't remember the other name for
> -> >MSG, but I'll bet it's in there somewhere, preserving something, and
> -> >I'll bet (from your symptoms) that that's the problem.
>
> -> I'm not sure what you mean by the "other name" for MSG, but
> -> the only other name I know is "wei jing," which (according to
> -> a Chinese friend) means "concentrated flavor."
>
> Possibly commercial names.
>
> Is not a possible problem with products similar to "Stay White",
> often used for potatoes, onion rings, etc. causing the dreaded french fry
> disease?
Don't know about "Stay White", but do know that Fruit Fresh (keeps fruit from
browning after cutting) is something like citric acid or ascorbic acid
(vitamin C). No big horrible deal. Just the commercial equivalent of
sprinkling the fruit with lemon juice.
bs
Bob Ward <rcw...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:p6tn7sge6airitfeu...@4ax.com...
>
Sulfites in
> some wines can cause headaches and other side effects in those who are
Sulfites can be much worse than that, for a small %
but-still-significant-number of people who can have severe, even potentially
life-threatening allergic reactions to them. It can be a problem because
sulfites are used in things like wine, and on items in restaurant salad
bars, where ingredients are not listed on the label or suchlike.
Fred Simons
Perry Farmer
-> > -> Amy Elizabeth Gleason <glea...@purdue.edu> wrote:
-> > -> >Do you have any MSG sensitivity? I can't remember the other na
-> > -> >MSG, but I'll bet it's in there somewhere, preserving something
-> > -> >I'll bet (from your symptoms) that that's the problem.
-> >
-> > -> I'm not sure what you mean by the "other name" for MSG, but
-> > -> the only other name I know is "wei jing," which (according to
-> > -> a Chinese friend) means "concentrated flavor."
-> >
-> > Possibly commercial names.
-> >
-> > Is not a possible problem with products similar to "Stay White",
-> > often used for potatoes, onion rings, etc. causing the dreaded fren
-> > disease?
-> Don't know about "Stay White", but do know that Fruit Fresh (keeps fr
-> browning after cutting) is something like citric acid or ascorbic acid
-> (vitamin C). No big horrible deal. Just the commercial equivalent of
-> sprinkling the fruit with lemon juice.
Stay White is a sulfite (sp) that is sprinkled on fresh cut potatoes,
onion rings, and various other items including salad makings to keep
them fresh looking while making a good many sick who consume the nice
looking food. Potatoes for example are a good example, it keeps them from
turning brown.
Many places in this area will state on their salad bars that they are
sulfite free, much as many restaurants, especially those that serve Chinese
style foods have a big MSG with a cross through them. I know when I get hit
by either one of these, the affects are somewhat different, however occur
nearly immediate.
I also have problems with iodine, something I found out with one of my
first kidney stones while getting an IVP, not much of a problem now with
newer solutions.
-> Dana W. Carpender
Perry
Rich Clancey
+ Don't know about "Stay White", but do know that Fruit Fresh (keeps fruit from
+ browning after cutting) is something like citric acid or ascorbic acid
+ (vitamin C). No big horrible deal. Just the commercial equivalent of
+ sprinkling the fruit with lemon juice.
I worked briefly at a bakery supply warehouse some years back,
and one of the big sellers, going out in 10 gallon drums, was
something called "Apple Pie Stabilizer". It was a very distressing
concept since you would tend to see apple pie as inherently stable, at
least on the spiritual plane.
Sean Houtman
>Don't know about "Stay White", but do know that Fruit Fresh (keeps fruit from
>browning after cutting) is something like citric acid or ascorbic acid
>(vitamin C). No big horrible deal. Just the commercial equivalent of
>sprinkling the fruit with lemon juice.
From the contents section of the Fruit Fresh label: Dextrose (corn sugar),
Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C), and Silicon Dioxide (for ease in pouring).
Lemon juice and a bit of sand (for ease in pouring).
Sean
Dana Carpender
Sean Houtman wrote:
Weird about the sand -- are you sure that's what Silicon Dioxide is? Sure would
make for gritty preserves; it doesn't dissolve well, last I noticed.
Jeff Janes
: > From the contents section of the Fruit Fresh label: Dextrose (corn sugar),
: > Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C), and Silicon Dioxide (for ease in pouring).
: >
: > Lemon juice and a bit of sand (for ease in pouring).
: Weird about the sand -- are you sure that's what Silicon Dioxide is?
: Sure would
: make for gritty preserves; it doesn't dissolve well, last I noticed.
Sand is mostly silicon dioxide, but there are many forms of
silicon dioxide. It's properties vary a lot depending on such things
as it's crystallinity, surface area, and surface modification. SiO2 is
kind of a misnomer, as there are hydrogens (blah3-Si-O-H, or silanols)
on the surface, and surely other things. Refering to the
"largest molecule" thread, this is why chemists tend not to call such
things molecules, they are not will defined structures[1]. So sand and
quartz are silicon dioxide, but so is glass, and silica gel (the stuff
that is that little pack that says "do not eat" you find in new shoes.)
Silica gel is or some other form of "activated" silicon dioxide is probably
what they are refering to, it is good at absorbing water, so it stops
the other ingredients from caking. That is why it eases pouring. The
grittiness can be so fine you wouldn't notice it.
Jeff
[1] We use "molecule" because it is useful. My boss can tell me "draw
the molecule", rather than "draw that stuff", which is kind of
ambiguous. With amorphous solids, the distinction of molecule becomes
less useful. The larger the "thing", the less likely it will be a well
defined "molecule" with an exact composition, and thus the less we care
about whether someone chooses to call it a molecule. I'm torn in that,
as a pedant, I feel it is of vital importance to know what the worlds
largest molecule is, but as a chemist I don't give a damn.
--
Jeff Janes
email: ja...@scripps.edu
rob...@bestweb.net
>[1] We use "molecule" because it is useful. My boss can tell me
>"draw the molecule", rather than "draw that stuff", which is kind of
>ambiguous. With amorphous solids, the distinction of molecule
>becomes less useful. The larger the "thing", the less likely it
>will be a well defined "molecule" with an exact composition, and
>thus the less we care about whether someone chooses to call it a
>molecule. I'm torn in that, as a pedant, I feel it is of vital
>importance to know what the worlds largest molecule is, but as a
>chemist I don't give a damn.
>--
OK, pedant, that'd depend on what bonds you count as forming a molecule. We
call a 2-stranded nucleic acid, where the strands are held together by
hydrogen bonds, a molecule, so why can't the ocean be a molecule of hydrogen
bonded water? Metallic bonds? Then how about the earth's putative iron
core? Or maybe the entire planet, counting all types of bonding.
Robert
biochemist, don't give a damn
Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
>sand and
> quartz are silicon dioxide, but so is glass, and silica gel (the stuff
> that is that little pack that says "do not eat" you find in new
shoes.)
"Do not eat"!
I thought it was "Donut: eat" ....
M.
StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>
Yes, but was the little bag bigger on the bottom?
Hey, if silicon dioxide is glass, and the silicon dioxide in the
'fruit fresh' is to help it pour, does that mean that glass flows?
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information,
and information on which artists do and do not want their
work posted!
http://home.icubed.net/starchsr/table.htm
Address munged for the inconvienence of spammers:
My address is starchsr <at> icubed dot net
clyde jones
Sodium Casienate is milk protein which carries a lot of lactose along
with it in the processing. I have the same symptoms from eating
dairy[1] I have to watch out for processed foods that contain any milk
proteins or sugars. lactose intolerance will start in the mid to late
20's for most people.
You might be able to test this by taking lactaid[2] with a boxed pasta
meal;
From the ingredient list you posted, there is no MSG in the boxed
pasta (the key word to look for is glutamate; MSG is Mono sodium
Glutamate) [3]
Clyde
[1] About 1/2 hour after eating lactose containing foods; I get
nauseous, gassy and have the runs. pretty image, I know.
[2] Lactaid is the commercial brand of lactase enzyme tablets, get them
at the pharmacy or the supermarket.
[3] some health food quacks and liars use Potassium glutamate so they
can say "NO MSG!!". the active ingredient is the glutamate (an amino
acid and neurotransmitter)
In article <387A0E74...@purdue.edu>, Amy Elizabeth Gleason
<glea...@purdue.edu> wrote:
| Quit making me laugh out loud, I'm in a lab... People are staring.
|
| Do you have any MSG sensitivity? I can't remember the other name for
| MSG, but I'll bet it's in there somewhere, preserving something, and
| I'll bet (from your symptoms) that that's the problem. My aunt gets the
| same reaction from Chinese food.
|
| L & k,
| Amy
|
| Sophelyn wrote:
<symptoms snipped>
| >
| > P.S. Ingredients from box of "Garlic and Olive Oil with Vermicelli" by
| > Pasta Roni are: wheat flour, salt, olive oil, dried garlic,
| > maltodextrin, partially hydrogenated soybean oil, corn
| > starch-modified, dried onions, dried corn syrup, sodium caseinate,
| > dried autolyzed yeast extract, dried parsley, soybean oil, natural
| > flavours, corn oil, hydrolyzed soy protein, dried soy sauce (wheat,
| > soybeans, salt), sunflower oil, disodium inosinate, disodium
| > guanylate, sugar, iron (ferrous sulfate), soybean oil (again!),
| > niacin, annatto extract color, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, and
| > folic acid
--
Pray to God, But Hammer Away
- Spanish Proverb
Clyde Jones
rot13'd
jjj.trbpvgvrf.pbz/pylqr-wbarf
pyl...@trbpvgvrf.pbz
Pryy 443.226.6054
ja...@scripps.edu
rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
> so why can't the ocean be a molecule of
> hydrogen
> bonded water? Metallic bonds? Then how about the earth's putative
> iron
> core? Or maybe the entire planet, counting all types of bonding.
>
You cruel bastard. I though of these examples before myself (I
especially like the earth's metallic core one) but now that someone
else brought them up, the truce has been broken. Now my dual nature is
going to get into a brawl over this issue tonight. I suspect the
chemist will win, as pedants can't even lace up the gloves without
stopping to note that the knots are topologically indistinguishable
from untied.
I guess that that is what I get for saying conformers are all readily
interconvertible at room temperature. Duh.
Jeff
--
Jeff Janes
ja...@scripps.edu
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
GrapeApe
>pasta (the key word to look for is glutamate; MSG is Mono sodium
>Glutamate) [3]
For good business practice, because of allergies, most manufacturers do mention
if they are using MSG, but I really don't know if they are legally obligated to
use the word glutamate. Many as a matter of course downplay the actual amount
of MSG they use, by listing the item under several different names.
By your blanket statement you seem totally unware of the euphemisms
manufacturers use for Monnosodium Glutamate. The most common are Partially
Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil (soybean and /or cottonseed), Hyrdolyzed soy
protein, hydrolyzed soy. MSG also lies hidden as an ingredient under the
moniker "natural flavors".
I have in front of me 3 varieties of of PastaRoni. All three have MSG. Only one
package mentions Monosodium Glutamate by name. Angel Hair Pasta with Herbs.
Garlic and Olive oil PastaRoni - hydrolyzed soy protein. Shells and White
Cheddar PastaRoni- hydrolyzed soy.
Of course this may have nothing to do with the original question if it is not
msg that is the culprit for his 'icky" feeling. And even I can get a bit upset
when someone rails on me soapboxing Soy Sauce is basically MSG. But if you do
have an allergy to the stuff, it pays to be aware of the other names for the
ingredient. Its a cheap way for food processors to enhance flavor.
Personally, I love the stuff. And some people consider that an allergy as well.
rob...@bestweb.net
>Are you lactose intolerant?
>Sodium Caseinate is milk protein which carries a lot of lactose
>along with it in the processing. I have the same symptoms from
>eating dairy[1]
>[1] About 1/2 hour after eating lactose containing foods; I get
>nauseous, gassy and have the runs. pretty image, I know.
From what I recall of the original post, these are NOT the primary symptoms
of which the person complained. The complaint didn't read like something
from undigested lactose.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
>By your blanket statement you seem totally unware of the euphemisms
>manufacturers use for Monosodium Glutamate. The most common are
>Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil (soybean and /or cottonseed)
No. Hydrogenation of oils will not produce glutamate.
Dana Carpender
rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
> On 2000-01-15 grap...@aol.comjunk(GrapeApe) said in part:
>
> >By your blanket statement you seem totally unware of the euphemisms
> >manufacturers use for Monosodium Glutamate. The most common are
> >Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil (soybean and /or cottonseed)
>
> No. Hydrogenation of oils will not produce glutamate.
Grape Ape is confusing hydrogenated oils (which are bad for you all on
their own) with "hydrolyzed vegetable protein", which apparently does have
something to do with MSG. Not a hard mistake to make.
rob...@bestweb.net
>Grape Ape is confusing hydrogenated oils (which are bad for you all
>on their own) with "hydrolyzed vegetable protein", which apparently
>does have something to do with MSG. Not a hard mistake to make.
>--
Yeah, but not hard to CORRECT either. Isn't that the second time it's come
up in about a month?
As far as "having something to do with MSG", here's how hydrolyzed protein
comes into play. Glutamate is one of the amino acids of which proteins are
composed. Full hydrolysis of proteins releases amino acids as such. This
goes on when you digest proteins, too. Therefore I have trouble believing,
even if glutamate in food does have drug effects, that hydrolyzed vegetable
protein would produce such effects. It seems that if amino acids are eaten
in approximately their usual food proportions (which will vary a bit
depending on the food), no particular amino acid should exert a drug effect.
So if, for instance, you want drug effects of tryptophan, you'd better take
it without protein-containing food.
GrapeApe
>
> >Grape Ape is confusing hydrogenated oils (which are bad for you all
> >on their own) with "hydrolyzed vegetable protein", which apparently
> >does have something to do with MSG. Not a hard mistake to make.
> >--
>Yeah, but not hard to CORRECT either.
I mentioned the hydrogenated OIL because the packagin mentioned it was SOY oil,
and some of the more hardcore "MSG is everywhere" types will blame anything to
do with soy as possibly tainted with MSG.
But almost all allergens are protein based anyway, no?
And my point was, just because MSG is not listed on a packages ingredients , it
does not mean it is not present, at least as it has been strongly proselytized
in my direction, somewhere sometime on usenet over the years.
I would think anyone with a serious allergy to any such substance would already
know every possible corner it may lurk in, and would not be asking about it on
usenet.
clyde jones
rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
| On 2000-01-15 dcar...@kiva.net said:
|
| >Grape Ape is confusing hydrogenated oils (which are bad for you all
| >on their own) with "hydrolyzed vegetable protein", which apparently
| >does have something to do with MSG. Not a hard mistake to make.
| >--
| Yeah, but not hard to CORRECT either. Isn't that the second time it's
| come
| up in about a month?
|
| As far as "having something to do with MSG", here's how hydrolyzed
| protein
| comes into play. Glutamate is one of the amino acids of which proteins
| are composed. Full hydrolysis of proteins releases amino acids as such.
| This goes on when you digest proteins, too. Therefore I have trouble
| believing, even if glutamate in food does have drug effects, that hydrolyzed
| vegetable protein would produce such effects. It seems that if amino acids are
| eaten in approximately their usual food proportions (which will vary a bit
| depending on the food), no particular amino acid should exert a drug
| effect.
| So if, for instance, you want drug effects of tryptophan, you'd better
| take it without protein-containing food.
|
| Robert
|
| Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered
|
THANK YOU!!!!!
Adding hydrolyzed protein is not a way to hide MSG, but a means of
adding nutritional value
you will get tons of glutamate just by eating an egg. the chicken isn't
adding MSG to fool you into thinking it tastes better.
Clyde
rob...@bestweb.net
>But almost all allergens are protein based anyway, no?
No, certainly not "almost all". Allergens may be proteins, glycoproteins,
or other substances with carbohydrate moieties such as glycolipids and
lipopolysaccharides.
rob...@bestweb.net
>Adding hydrolyzed protein is not a way to hide MSG, but a means of
>adding nutritional value
No, it's not just that. Hydrolyzed protein (i.e. free amino acids and
peptided -- amino acids alone if the hydrolysis is complete) taste
different from intact protein, so hydrolyzed protein is a flavoring agent.
At high concentrations, most free amino acids taste awful, as was discovered
by Durk Pearson & Sandy Shaw (Skye D'Aureus & Natalee Hall) when they came
up with designer drinks.
Dana Carpender
rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
>
> by Durk Pearson & Sandy Shaw (Skye D'Aureus & Natalee Hall) when they came
> up with designer drinks.
What's up with the Skye D'Aureus and Natalee Hall names?
rob...@bestweb.net
>> by Durk Pearson & Sandy Shaw (Skye D'Aureus & Natalee Hall) when
>What's up with the Skye D'Aureus and Natalee Hall names?
>--
Their old hippie names. See "It Usually Begins with Ayn Rand" by Jerome
Tuccile Sr., or some old issues of the Connection if I can find it (a
'zine predecessor to Usenet).