Recycling Efforts Highlighted
Snidely
<quote>
"The New York came to life Saturday, becoming the Navy's newest
warship - and a proud symbol of fortitude.
The $1 billion amphibious transport dock carries 7.5 tons of steel
from the World Trade Center in her bow stem.
"The New York will be a visible testament to our resilience," said
Navy Secretary Ray Mabus as the first watch was set and hundreds of
sailors and Marines ran onto the decks of the ship, a tradition
signaling the official commissioning of the vessel.
</quote>
<http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/
2009/11/07/2009-11-07_uss_new_york_comes_to_life.html> or
<http://lnk.sk/ap2s>
/dps
Ray
I fail to be impressed, considering where the rest went. From various
sources... "The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and
India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of
$120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills
in the previous year." So most will end up in cheap junk imported by
Americans or in a Chinese bridge somewhere.
--
Ray
Snidely
> I fail to be impressed, considering where the rest went. From various
> sources... "The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and
> India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of
> $120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills
> in the previous year." So most will end up in cheap junk imported by
> Americans or in a Chinese bridge somewhere.
>
There are still local mills?
And 7.5 tons isn't that much on a ship that size, for that matter.
Part of the bowstem, it seems.
And as another aside, "amphibious transport dock" and "warship" have a
slight cognitive dissonance for me (less than if it was a resupply
ship or a floating hospital).
/dps
Les Albert
wrote:
It's not all cheap junk. A lot of the Chinese steel comes back to the
U.S. as expensive steel components for buildings, bridges, oil
pipelines, etc.
Les
DT
<43e6b3cb-2ae1-4096...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
westca...@gmail.com says...
>I fail to be impressed, considering where the rest went. From various
>sources... "The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and
>India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of
>$120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills
>in the previous year."
That's just the way steel prices fluctuate. You can't compare steel sold
several months apart without a market analysis. I have been cleaning out
my sister-in-law's house, where they used to have a private gym. We had
many thousands of pounds of weights and equipment to sell.
Early last year, steel scrap peaked at around $230/ton here in
Cleveland. By the time I got ready to scrap what we couldn't sell as gym
equipment, it had fallen to $60/ton, that was this spring. So I just sat
on it. Then, on a machining forum I read, someone mentioned steel was at
$120/ton. Woah! I called up the local yard to confirm it, and they
quoted me $130/ton.
I loaded and hauled 5500lbs in one day. By myself. Using my Kia minivan,
because the son's truck wasn't available. I did eight loads averaging
700 lbs. The next day when I got the pickup, we loaded another 3000 lbs
of bulky stuff I couldn't manage by myself. Cleared over $550 dollars
for two afternoon's effort for scrap I would have gotten $250 for a few
months earlier..
So that is the way steel goes, just like anything else, you have to hit
the market right.
--
Dennis
Boron Elgar
<snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 8, 9:15�am, Ray <westcarle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I fail to be impressed, considering where the rest went. From various
>> sources... "The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and
>> India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of
>> $120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills
>> in the previous year." So most will end up in cheap junk imported by
>> Americans or in a Chinese bridge somewhere.
>>
>
>There are still local mills?
>
>And 7.5 tons isn't that much on a ship that size, for that matter.
>Part of the bowstem, it seems.
Yeah, and when the news did a video closeup, it appeared for all the
world that it was already rusty. I cannot find it online, though
>
>And as another aside, "amphibious transport dock" and "warship" have a
>slight cognitive dissonance for me (less than if it was a resupply
>ship or a floating hospital).
>
>/dps
Those who do not learn from history....
Boron Elgar
wrote:
Cheaper than American made and from other imports, too, and in many of
the trades, those components are often real garbage and used as means
of quick cost-cutting. TH has no qualms about using parts from
anywhere, as long as they are quality and meet spec, as the kind of
specialized work he does isn't dictated by price and his company would
never profit that way, but he sees an inordinate amount of crap from
China at the trades level.
There is a lack of regulations over there, Les and an extreme
cost-cutting mentality in the US that tries to overlook it. It doesn't
mean that nothing comes in as well-made, but it does mean that a lot
of stuff flies under the radar and with the local Chinese governmental
corruption and overall lack of Chinese manufacturing and supply
records, it is hard to even find out where the processes have gone
wrong or find the company responsible if the backtracking actually can
be done.
This is not new happening, but certainly very much in the news about
Chinese pharma and building materials.
Boron
Les Albert
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:31:27 -0800, Les Albert <lalb...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>>It's not all cheap junk. A lot of the Chinese steel comes back to the
>>U.S. as expensive steel components for buildings, bridges, oil
>>pipelines, etc.
>>
>>Les
>Cheaper than American made and from other imports, too, and in many of
>the trades, those components are often real garbage and used as means
>of quick cost-cutting. TH has no qualms about using parts from
>anywhere, as long as they are quality and meet spec, as the kind of
>specialized work he does isn't dictated by price and his company would
>never profit that way, but he sees an inordinate amount of crap from
>China at the trades level.
>There is a lack of regulations over there, Les and an extreme
>cost-cutting mentality in the US that tries to overlook it. It doesn't
>mean that nothing comes in as well-made, but it does mean that a lot
>of stuff flies under the radar and with the local Chinese governmental
>corruption and overall lack of Chinese manufacturing and supply
>records, it is hard to even find out where the processes have gone
>wrong or find the company responsible if the backtracking actually can
>be done.
Your hubby probably gets to see a lot of stuff that is either raw
material or semi-finished. I only get to see finished stuff, like the
cranes at the Oakland port. They were fabricated completely in China,
and shipped over here.:
www.oaklandmofo.com/images/port-of-oakland-cranes.jpg
Also the new Bay Bridge is being constructed from Chinese manufactured
steel:
www.reservationkey.com/userimages/jmt_10302007111720AM.jpg
In both construction instances there were/are American inspectors at
the factory in China. There is probably some substandard stuff coming
in, but as I said above, it's not *all* cheap junk.
Les
landotter
For this to matter, one would have to believe in some sort of magical
ferrous homeopathy.
Bill Turlock
>
> In article
> <43e6b3cb-2ae1-4096...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> westca...@gmail.com says...
>
> >I fail to be impressed, considering where the rest went. From various
> >sources... "The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and
> >India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of
> >$120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills
> >in the previous year."
>
> That's just the way steel prices fluctuate. You can't compare steel sold
> several months apart without a market analysis. I have been cleaning out
> my sister-in-law's house, where they used to have a private gym. We had
> many thousands of pounds
you're kidding!
> of weights and equipment to sell.
>
> Early last year, steel scrap peaked at around $230/ton here in
> Cleveland. By the time I got ready to scrap what we couldn't sell as gym
> equipment, it had fallen to $60/ton, that was this spring. So I just sat
> on it. Then, on a machining forum I read, someone mentioned steel was at
> $120/ton. Woah! I called up the local yard to confirm it, and they
> quoted me $130/ton.
>
> I loaded and hauled 5500lbs in one day. By myself. Using my Kia minivan,
> because the son's truck wasn't available. I did eight loads averaging
> 700 lbs. The next day when I got the pickup, we loaded another 3000 lbs
> of bulky stuff I couldn't manage by myself. Cleared over $550 dollars
> for two afternoon's effort for scrap I would have gotten $250 for a few
> months earlier..
no you're not. Wow & sheesh!
Bill Turlock
Speaking of which, does anyone reall the big Herparin scandal of
early '08? Seems the Chinese suppliers of it were adulterating it
with oversulfated chondroitin sulfate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/health/policy/30heparin.html
Boron Elgar
wrote:
You don't want to talk cranes...he used to work for Bragg when he was
in LA and is more than familiar with them.
>Also the new Bay Bridge is being constructed from Chinese manufactured
>steel:
>
>www.reservationkey.com/userimages/jmt_10302007111720AM.jpg
And he works with steel, too.
>
>In both construction instances there were/are American inspectors at
>the factory in China. There is probably some substandard stuff coming
>in, but as I said above, it's not *all* cheap junk.
>
>Les
And I said: "It doesn't mean that nothing comes in as well-made.."
Boron
Boron Elgar
"@sonnnic.invalid> wrote:
>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>
>> There is a lack of regulations over there, Les and an extreme
>> cost-cutting mentality in the US that tries to overlook it.
>
>Speaking of which, does anyone reall the big Herparin scandal of
>early '08? Seems the Chinese suppliers of it were adulterating it
>with oversulfated chondroitin sulfate.
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/health/policy/30heparin.html
Heparain and the "glycerin" scandals were what I had in mind when I
mentioned pharma. And thousands of houses in south Florida and other
places are having trouble with sulfurous sheet rock that is rotting
wiring and appliances and causing other problems, too..
And the wheat gluten in pet foods....
Boron
Les Albert
What I was trying to convey was not my expertise with cranes, but just
that they have been performing very well for years with no word of
problems from the port of Oakland. Since he has worked with cranes,
ask him what he thinks of the Chinese constructed ones in Oakland. It
will be interesting to hear his opinion.
>>Also the new Bay Bridge is being constructed from Chinese manufactured
>>steel:
>>www.reservationkey.com/userimages/jmt_10302007111720AM.jpg
>And he works with steel, too.
I would guess that he does since he is a welder.
Les
DT
"BillTurlock"@sonnnic.invalid says...
>DT wrote:
>>
>> In article
>> <43e6b3cb-2ae1-4096...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>> westca...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> >I fail to be impressed, considering where the rest went. From various
>> >sources... "The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and
>> >India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of
>> >$120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills
>> >in the previous year."
>>
>> That's just the way steel prices fluctuate. You can't compare steel sold
>> several months apart without a market analysis. I have been cleaning out
>> my sister-in-law's house, where they used to have a private gym. We had
>> many thousands of pounds
>you're kidding!
Heh. And that was after selling the good weights to lifters, and sis kept
quite a few for herself.
My wife and my sister-in-law were both world record holders in all-around
competition and this was the garage gym they trained in along with their
coach.
In all around lifting, the classes are defined by age and body weight. When
my 120 pound wife was 45, she set the world record for a hip lift at 860
something pounds. Noi, her sister, broke the record and still holds the
record, I believe, at over 900 pounds. Here is a list of past champions,
look down the list for Noi Phumchaona. The last year she competed was 2002,
when she was 60 years old.
http://www.usawa.com/Default.aspx?pageId=334889
--
Dennis
Greg Goss
The gluten was no problem. It was the melamine that was there instead
of the gluten.
--
apart from one noisy guy up in Canada, no-one wants
a three-cylinder tissue box on bicycle tires.
Greg Goss
Navy traditions are based on a big belief in magical ferrous
homeopathy. I think a piece of the WW2 "Enterprise" carrier was used
in constructing the keep of the nuclear Enterprise.
Boron Elgar
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>And the wheat gluten in pet foods....
>
>The gluten was no problem. It was the melamine that was there instead
>of the gluten.
It wasn't melamine *instead* of gluten, it was melamine added TO the
gluten.
Boron
landotter
> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 8, 11:00 am, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The $1 billion amphibious transport dock carries 7.5 tons of steel
> >> from the World Trade Center in her bow stem.
>
> >> "The New York will be a visible testament to our resilience," said
> >> Navy Secretary Ray Mabus as the first watch was set and hundreds of
> >> sailors and Marines ran onto the decks of the ship, a tradition
> >> signaling the official commissioning of the vessel.
> >> </quote>
> >> <http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/
> >> 2009/11/07/2009-11-07_uss_new_york_comes_to_life.html> or
> >> <http://lnk.sk/ap2s>
>
> >For this to matter, one would have to believe in some sort of magical
> >ferrous homeopathy.
>
> Navy traditions are based on a big belief in magical ferrous
> homeopathy. I think a piece of the WW2 "Enterprise" carrier was used
> in constructing the keep of the nuclear Enterprise.
Fucking hippies!
Hieronymus Agricola
(in article <gcuff5lj1pap60ihi...@4ax.com>):
Melmac is a kind of plastic made from melamine. It also provides its name to
the ancestral home planet of Alf. WHO EATS CATS!
Coincidence? I don't think so!
Boron Elgar
No cats were harmed in the posting of this message.
Greg Goss
I thought that the melamine was used to boost the protein assay
(looking for amino acids) of the product. If they're faking out the
protein assay, then it's "instead of".
Boron Elgar
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:37:52 -0700, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>>>And the wheat gluten in pet foods....
>>>
>>>The gluten was no problem. It was the melamine that was there instead
>>>of the gluten.
>>
>>It wasn't melamine *instead* of gluten, it was melamine added TO the
>>gluten.
>
>I thought that the melamine was used to boost the protein assay
>(looking for amino acids) of the product. If they're faking out the
>protein assay, then it's "instead of".
The melamine was a contaminant addend to the gluten. It did not occur
naturally in it, but was put into the mixture. It doesn't matter their
intent or the proportions. They deliberately adulterated the product.
Boron
hpjeannie
>
> In all around lifting, the classes are defined by age and body weight. When
> my 120 pound wife was 45, she set the world record for a hip lift at 860
> something pounds. Noi, her sister, broke the record and still holds the
> record, I believe, at over 900 pounds. Here is a list of past champions,
> look down the list for Noi Phumchaona. The last year she competed was 2002,
> when she was 60 years old.
>
> http://www.usawa.com/Default.aspx?pageId=334889
Oh, that's *very* cool!!
Jeannie
Boron Elgar
That's even cooler than cool.
Boron
DT
boron...@hotmail.com says...
>On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:49:43 -0800 (PST), hpjeannie
><hpje...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 8, 3:59�pm, DT <dthompson4...@SPAMwowway.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In all around lifting, the classes are defined by age and body weight.
When
>>> my 120 pound wife was 45, she set the world record for a hip lift at 860
>>> something pounds. Noi, her sister, broke the record and still holds the
>>> record, I believe, at over 900 pounds. Here is a list of past champions,
>>> look down the list for Noi Phumchaona. The last year she competed was
>>>
>>> http://www.usawa.com/Default.aspx?pageId=334889
>>Oh, that's *very* cool!!
>>
>>Jeannie
>
>That's even cooler than cool.
>
>Boron
You may not be familiar with the hip lift, as it is not done in Olympic syle
competition. You straddle the bar, which has a lifting eye in the center. A
leather belt goes around the waist and a chain hangs down the front. You squat
down a bit, hook the chain to the bar and stand up.
When Suree and Noi set their records, they were competing in the masters open
class, i.e., over 45, men and women together. So at the time they were the
strongest 120 pound, over 45 year olds, at least in that particular lift.
Suree has very broad shoulders and is a naturally strong woman in her upper
body. She thinks it makes her look un-lady like, I tell her not to worry! She
was no longer lifting when we met. She had some 'female surgery' as she puts
it, and claims the doctor told her, "If you try that again, everything will
fall out".
--
Dennis
Hactar
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:37:52 -0700, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> >
> >>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >
> >
> >>>And the wheat gluten in pet foods....
> >>
> >>The gluten was no problem. It was the melamine that was there instead
> >>of the gluten.
> >
> >It wasn't melamine *instead* of gluten, it was melamine added TO the
> >gluten.
>
> I thought that the melamine was used to boost the protein assay
> (looking for amino acids) of the product. If they're faking out the
> protein assay, then it's "instead of".
FWIU it faked out the protein assay by virtue of having lots of
nitrogen. I don't know whether there was any less actual protein than
the equivalent no-melamine product.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein
Lee Ayrton
Even more dissonant, one news report that I saw called her a "battleship".