The dirt on chocolate
GrapeApe
in a coupla years to see if Cece did the helium ballons in the moving car thing
(he did)
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_349a.html
and was very heartened to discover Cecil has taken my side on a very important
issue. White Chocolate is not Chocolate!
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a970829b.html
Of course seeing the url now, I think it is actually a much older column being
presented as new. But it is being called a recent addition, and its new to me,
that he has suashed that horrible misunderstanding about that denatured white
stuff some folks go all gooey over and call by a much better name.
--cut and paste to adopt this sig file---
Make Deja a useful Usenet Archive again!
Bill Diamond
irgendwie gejammert:
>and was very heartened to discover Cecil has taken my side on a very important
>issue. White Chocolate is not Chocolate!
Well, here's a little back up for you. In Germany, "white chocolate"
is marketed as KinderShocko - Children's Chocolate. It's healthy for
the kiddies because it has so much more milk than sugar or chocolate.
Yeah, I can't stop laughing at the idea, either. Back in my vegetarian
years, a german friend insisted there were vegetarian sausages, so he
ordered me one. Like an idiot, I ate it.
The german concept of "meatless" is equally unique. Basically, if it's
not from the flesh, but just the ground up innards - it's meatless.
Bill
Geoduck
<bi...@nospambilldiamond.com> wrote:
>Am 18 Dec 2000 09:21:12 GMT hat grap...@aol.comjunk (GrapeApe)
>irgendwie gejammert:
>
>
>>and was very heartened to discover Cecil has taken my side on a very important
>>issue. White Chocolate is not Chocolate!
>
>Well, here's a little back up for you. In Germany, "white chocolate"
>is marketed as KinderShocko - Children's Chocolate. It's healthy for
>the kiddies because it has so much more milk than sugar or chocolate.
>
>Yeah, I can't stop laughing at the idea, either. Back in my vegetarian
>years, a german friend insisted there were vegetarian sausages, so he
>ordered me one. Like an idiot, I ate it.
(snip)
I believe that there are soy 'sausages' with genuinely no meat.
--
Geoduck
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Bill Diamond
irgendwie gejammert:
>I believe that there are soy 'sausages' with genuinely no meat.
Correct. Morningstar Farms has one of the more marketed versions.
They're not bad, provided you haven't eaten real meat in some time.
These are specifically designed for the veg community, but more for
the Seventh Day Adventists.
bill
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> I was checking the greatly improved straight dope web site for the first time
> in a coupla years to see if Cece did the helium ballons in the moving car thing
> (he did)
> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_349a.html
> and was very heartened to discover Cecil has taken my side on a very important
> issue. White Chocolate is not Chocolate!
Yes, it is plain to see that long term association with AOL has robbed
poor Cece of his infallibility. Sad to see him go thus.
Anyone with an ounce of real taste knows that white chocolate is the
supreme chocolate. The rest are adulterations, sinking below the divine.
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
GrapeApe
>poor Cece of his infallibility. Sad to see him go thus.
He wrote his opinion in 97, I think. Not sure how deep he was in the AOL
miasma at that point, but he is a couple of years removed by now at least.
He probably knew the white stuff wasn't really chocolate even before then.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
>>Yes, it is plain to see that long term association with AOL has robbed
>>poor Cece of his infallibility. Sad to see him go thus.
> He wrote his opinion in 97, I think. Not sure how deep he was in the AOL
> miasma at that point, but he is a couple of years removed by now at least.
> He probably knew the white stuff wasn't really chocolate even before then.
You're probably right. Dementia had to be settling in for him to consider
going to AOL, so clearly, he was loosing his faculties even as far back as
97, when he mis-attributed white chocolate, the best and supreme example
of all forms of chocolate as non-chocolate.
JmG
>The german concept of "meatless" is equally unique. Basically, if it's
>not from the flesh, but just the ground up innards - it's meatless.
In Spain, "meatless" meant that Ham was okay.
J
--
Puedo tener algo sin la carne y sin el jamón?
"babelfish"
Mark Steese
<91m0qi$lri$1...@mycroft.westnet.com>:
>You're probably right. Dementia had to be settling in for him to
>consider going to AOL, so clearly, he was loosing his faculties even as
>far back as 97, when he mis-attributed white chocolate, the best and
>supreme example of all forms of chocolate as non-chocolate.
De-lurking...
Gotta go with the Grape on this one. Not that I especially mind white
'chocolate,' but chocolate it ain't. Gedankenexperiment: imagine making a
molé with white 'chocolate'.
Chocolate was a sacred drink to the Maya. I hate to think of the reception
you'd get if you substituted the white stuff for the real thing at one of
their ceremonies.
-Mark
--
Bibrau is the name of the girl who sits in the blue
-Runic inscription from Greenland, c. 11th C. A.D.
JmG
>Chocolate was a sacred drink to the Maya. I hate to think of the reception
>you'd get if you substituted the white stuff for the real thing at one of
>their ceremonies.
They might think it had been purified to its highest form.
J
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> Chocolate was a sacred drink to the Maya. I hate to think of the reception
> you'd get if you substituted the white stuff for the real thing at one of
> their ceremonies.
The Maya also practiced Human Sacrifice. Clearly, it was the lack of
effective methods of purification for removing the dirt of the cocoa bean
to obtain the purer and higher form of chocolate, that absent cocoa, and
plentiful in cocoa butter, that drove them to thier madness, and
ultimately made their civilization fall back into ruin in the jungle.
Had they access to Real, honest to got white chocolate, they would have
made other developments; the wheel, gunpowder, advanced navigation, and
who knows, they may have invaded Europe rather than the other way around.
But, with only dirty chocolate to sustain them, they made do with a cool
calender, killing sports players (a frequently unrecognized achievement)
and pyramids.
Bill Diamond
irgendwie gejammert:
>8 göter ok 22 norrmen ok ra...@westnet.poe.com wrote in
><91m0qi$lri$1...@mycroft.westnet.com>:
>
>>You're probably right. Dementia had to be settling in for him to
>>consider going to AOL, so clearly, he was loosing his faculties even as
>>far back as 97, when he mis-attributed white chocolate, the best and
>>supreme example of all forms of chocolate as non-chocolate.
>
>De-lurking...
>
>Gotta go with the Grape on this one. Not that I especially mind white
>'chocolate,' but chocolate it ain't. Gedankenexperiment: imagine making a
>molé with white 'chocolate'.
>
>Chocolate was a sacred drink to the Maya. I hate to think of the reception
>you'd get if you substituted the white stuff for the real thing at one of
>their ceremonies.
>
>-Mark
May, I Mark?
"Quezlcoatl gets the rebound with the whitechocolate pagan's head and
SCORES!!!!!"
Rich Clancey
+ mst...@home.com (Mark Steese) wrote:
+ >Chocolate was a sacred drink to the Maya. I hate to think of the reception
+ >you'd get if you substituted the white stuff for the real thing at one of
+ >their ceremonies.
+ They might think it had been purified to its highest form.
Without the sugar of course, which was introduced by the Turks
into Europe. The Mayan nectar of the bull munganies was basically
ground chocolate in hot water, not the sweet stuff which got popular
in Europe. And as for the blob of marshmallow fluff, well that had to
wait for civilization to progress considerably further.
--
rich clancey r...@world.std.com rcla...@massart.edu
:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:
It was practically held that the salvation of one's soul must
not be made too depressing, or the young people would have nothing to
do with it.
-- Wm D Howells _A Modern Instance_
*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*
Barbara
>'chocolate,' but chocolate it ain't. Gedankenexperiment: imagine making a
>molé with white 'chocolate'.
White chocolate ain't chocolate. I'm allergic to the real thing, but I can eat
all the white chocolate I want.
Barbara -
"I've got something inside me
Not what my life's about
Cause I've been letting my outside tide me
Over 'til my time runs out."
Taxi
Harry Chapin
ra...@westnet.poe.com
>>Gotta go with the Grape on this one. Not that I especially mind white
>>'chocolate,' but chocolate it ain't. Gedankenexperiment: imagine making a
> White chocolate ain't chocolate. I'm allergic to the real thing, but I can eat
> all the white chocolate I want.
Your body naturally rejects the dirt of the Cocoa bean. Consider yourself
blessed.
Mark Steese
<oilu3t4mh970qnppu...@4ax.com>:
Not the Maya - I think you're thinking of the Yaqui. I have no trouble
believing that Don Juan and Carlos Castaneda could have gotten stoned out
of their gourds on peyote and hallucinated that they were eating real
chocolate when it was really "the white stuff."
Mark Steese
>Mark Steese <mst...@home.com> wrote:
>> Chocolate was a sacred drink to the Maya. I hate to think of the
>> reception you'd get if you substituted the white stuff for the real
>> thing at one of their ceremonies.
>
>The Maya also practiced Human Sacrifice. Clearly, it was the lack of
>effective methods of purification for removing the dirt of the cocoa
>bean to obtain the purer and higher form of chocolate, that absent
>cocoa, and plentiful in cocoa butter, that drove them to thier madness,
>and ultimately made their civilization fall back into ruin in the
>jungle.
Fall _back_ into ruin? You seem to be taking their theory of cycles a
little too seriously.
>Had they access to Real, honest to got white chocolate, they would have
>made other developments; the wheel, gunpowder, advanced navigation, and
>who knows, they may have invaded Europe rather than the other way
>around.
Your vile ad hominems against the most splendid civilization of the Western
Hemisphere shall not go unremarked, sir. You do know who invented white
'chocolate,' don't you? The Swiss. Can you seriously doubt that it was
consumption of the substance that made them so receptive to handling the
Third Reich's ill-gotten gains?
>But, with only dirty chocolate to sustain them, they made do with a cool
>calender, killing sports players (a frequently unrecognized achievement)
>and pyramids.
Yeah, I guess independently inventing written language wasn't much of an
accomplishment compared to the Swatch.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> 8 goter ok 22 norrmen ok ra...@westnet.poe.com wrote in
> <91ns54$j1u$1...@mycroft.westnet.com>:
>>made other developments; the wheel, gunpowder, advanced navigation, and
>>who knows, they may have invaded Europe rather than the other way
>>around.
> Your vile ad hominems against the most splendid civilization of the Western
> Hemisphere shall not go unremarked, sir. You do know who invented white
> 'chocolate,' don't you? The Swiss.
Truely a fine people. We should all take their example and try to live
life as they do. At least as they do chocolate. And coffee. Oh, and
their beer is top notch.
> Can you seriously doubt that it was
> consumption of the substance that made them so receptive to handling the
> Third Reich's ill-gotten gains?
I'd invoke Godwin on you, but that would violate the Freiler law. Suffice
it to say that anyone who set themselves up to rip off the barbarian
hordes, while maintaining their own independance score high marks. Yes,
the banks and governments failed to do the right thing for the victims of
the holocaust, and that (all kidding aside for the moment) is shamefull.
>>But, with only dirty chocolate to sustain them, they made do with a cool
>>calender, killing sports players (a frequently unrecognized achievement)
>>and pyramids.
> Yeah, I guess independently inventing written language wasn't much of an
> accomplishment compared to the Swatch.
Hell, it's nothing compared to making those cool little knives with all
sorts of gadgets.
Dana Carpender
ra...@westnet.poe.com wrote:
>
> Mark Steese <mst...@home.com> wrote:
> > 8 goter ok 22 norrmen ok ra...@westnet.poe.com wrote in
> > <91ns54$j1u$1...@mycroft.westnet.com>:
> >>Had they access to Real, honest to got white chocolate, they would have
> >>made other developments; the wheel, gunpowder, advanced navigation, and
> >>who knows, they may have invaded Europe rather than the other way
> >>around.
>
> > Your vile ad hominems against the most splendid civilization of the Western
> > Hemisphere shall not go unremarked, sir. You do know who invented white
> > 'chocolate,' don't you? The Swiss.
>
> Truely a fine people. We should all take their example and try to live
> life as they do. At least as they do chocolate. And coffee. Oh, and
> their beer is top notch.
Furthermore, they're really, really healthy -- second longest lifespan
in the world, just behind the Japanese. And they eat lots of meat and
cheese and butter, which I personally prefer to dried squid tentacles.
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet -- And Lost Forty Pounds!
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Check out our FREE Low Carb Ezine!
Bill Diamond
gejammert:
Uggh.
I don't like their chocolate, I don't like their beer. They're also
rotten in the sack and never make breakfast.
Let's not even go into their "neutrality" <wink> <wink>. And what's
up with universal suffrage over there?
<g>
Bill
Big David
> Uggh.
Uggh Uggh....Ugh, Ugggghh Ugh Ugh?
> I don't like their chocolate,
Sacreligious. Out with thy demons, Blasphemer. However, I think the
Belgians make the best fine chocolates, even better than the Swiss.
> I don't like their beer.
Well, the Germans and Italians both make better beer. Its like the Alps
stopped all the good brewmasters from crossing into Swiss territory. They
still make better beer than 90% of what passes for beer here in the U.S.
> They're also rotten in the sack
Well, I never had any complaints re: the two Swiss frauleins at camp, but I
understand you and I probably have vastly different experiences in this area
>and never make breakfast.
Well, mine did, but then one of them worked in the kitchen.
> Let's not even go into their "neutrality" <wink> <wink>.
He said, knowingly.
--
Big David
"Commit a little mortal sin. Its good for your soul."
If you want to send me email, you should be smart enough to figure out how
Bill Diamond
<dbo...@spamhome.com> irgendwie gejammert:
>Sacreligious. Out with thy demons, Blasphemer. However, I think the
>Belgians make the best fine chocolates, even better than the Swiss.
Agreed. Belgian chocolate is superb. Swiss chocolate is useful for
making a chocolate fondue.
>
>> I don't like their beer.
>
>Well, the Germans and Italians both make better beer. Its like the Alps
>stopped all the good brewmasters from crossing into Swiss territory. They
>still make better beer than 90% of what passes for beer here in the U.S.
The Belgians make some kick-ass beer. But, shhh - it seems to be a
big secret. Next time you're in southern germany, drop by the Andechs
Monastery and have some Andechs Doppelbock. Now that's some die and
go to heaven beer!
>
>> They're also rotten in the sack
>
>Well, I never had any complaints re: the two Swiss frauleins at camp, but I
>understand you and I probably have vastly different experiences in this area
You were at camp and probably happy to have someone play Hide the
Struedel with. On the other hand, perhaps the frauelinen are much
more playful because that had a man who does more than lay there. I
swear, I've seen carpets give off more sexual excitement than the
swiss men I've known.
>
>>and never make breakfast.
>
>Well, mine did, but then one of them worked in the kitchen.
The guys want to serve you that awful bitter slag they call coffee.
And some cruller that pretends to be a croissant.
>
>> Let's not even go into their "neutrality" <wink> <wink>.
>
>He said, knowingly.
:-)
Mark Steese
<3A40EC6A...@kiva.net>:
[snip]
>> Truely a fine people. We should all take their example and try to
>> live life as they do. At least as they do chocolate. And coffee.
>> Oh, and their beer is top notch.
>
>Furthermore, they're really, really healthy -- second longest lifespan
>in the world, just behind the Japanese. And they eat lots of meat and
>cheese and butter, which I personally prefer to dried squid tentacles.
>
Zen Buddhism _and_ the coolest cartoons ever made. The Japanese have
wasabi. What seasonings do the puny Schweizers possess? Bah!
Bill Diamond
irgendwie gejammert:
>8 göter ok 22 norrmen ok dcar...@kiva.net (Dana Carpender) wrote in
><3A40EC6A...@kiva.net>:
>[snip]
>>> Truely a fine people. We should all take their example and try to
>>> live life as they do. At least as they do chocolate. And coffee.
>>> Oh, and their beer is top notch.
>>
>>Furthermore, they're really, really healthy -- second longest lifespan
>>in the world, just behind the Japanese. And they eat lots of meat and
>>cheese and butter, which I personally prefer to dried squid tentacles.
>>
>The Swiss also produced "Heidi." The Japanese, on the other hand, produced
>Zen Buddhism _and_ the coolest cartoons ever made. The Japanese have
>wasabi. What seasonings do the puny Schweizers possess? Bah!
Their "spice" is called Maggi. It's basically a brown sauce you add
to gravies, sauces, soups and stews.
Their primary food contributions are: fondue (chocolate, oil, and
cheese). As well as "rosti". Pan fried shredded potatoes.
Chris
<bi...@nospambilldiamond.com> said:
>Am Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:21:21 GMT hat "Big David"
><dbo...@spamhome.com> irgendwie gejammert:
>
>>Sacreligious. Out with thy demons, Blasphemer. However, I think the
>>Belgians make the best fine chocolates, even better than the Swiss.
>Agreed. Belgian chocolate is superb. Swiss chocolate is useful for
>making a chocolate fondue.
>>
>>> I don't like their beer.
>>
>>Well, the Germans and Italians both make better beer. Its like the Alps
>>stopped all the good brewmasters from crossing into Swiss territory. They
>>still make better beer than 90% of what passes for beer here in the U.S.
>The Belgians make some kick-ass beer. But, shhh - it seems to be a
>big secret.
<snip>
Not much of a secret; any good grocery store here on the left side of
Merika has a couple of brands on the shelves.
--
One for the money,
Two for the show,
Three to get ready,
And four lines total.
Chris
<bi...@nospambilldiamond.com> said:
>Am Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:34:44 GMT hat mst...@home.com (Mark Steese)
>irgendwie gejammert:
<snip>
>>The Swiss also produced "Heidi." The Japanese, on the other hand, produced
>>Zen Buddhism _and_ the coolest cartoons ever made. The Japanese have
>>wasabi. What seasonings do the puny Schweizers possess? Bah!
>
>Their "spice" is called Maggi. It's basically a brown sauce you add
>to gravies, sauces, soups and stews.
>
>Their primary food contributions are: fondue (chocolate, oil, and
>cheese). As well as "rosti". Pan fried shredded potatoes.
What, hash browns? That's as American as fizzy-water-being-called-beer.
Dana Carpender
I'd be willing to bet I could find Chimay here in Bloomie if I tried,
and we're not hardly on the Left Coast.
Chris
<dcar...@kiva.net> said:
>
>
>Chris wrote:
>>
>> Hey, remember back on Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:46:23 -0500, when Bill Diamond
>> <bi...@nospambilldiamond.com> said:
>>
>> >Am Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:21:21 GMT hat "Big David"
>> ><dbo...@spamhome.com> irgendwie gejammert:
>> >
>> >>Sacreligious. Out with thy demons, Blasphemer. However, I think the
>> >>Belgians make the best fine chocolates, even better than the Swiss.
>> >Agreed. Belgian chocolate is superb. Swiss chocolate is useful for
>> >making a chocolate fondue.
>> >>
>> >>> I don't like their beer.
>> >>
>> >>Well, the Germans and Italians both make better beer. Its like the Alps
>> >>stopped all the good brewmasters from crossing into Swiss territory. They
>> >>still make better beer than 90% of what passes for beer here in the U.S.
>> >The Belgians make some kick-ass beer. But, shhh - it seems to be a
>> >big secret.
>> <snip>
>>
>> Not much of a secret; any good grocery store here on the left side of
>> Merika has a couple of brands on the shelves.
>
>I'd be willing to bet I could find Chimay here in Bloomie if I tried,
>and we're not hardly on the Left Coast.
Thanks for supporting my point, Dana. :)
Dana Carpender
Chris wrote:
>
> Hey, remember back on Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:20:13 -0500, when Dana Carpender
> <dcar...@kiva.net> said:
>
> >
> >
> >Chris wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey, remember back on Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:46:23 -0500, when Bill Diamond
> >> <bi...@nospambilldiamond.com> said:
> >>
> >> >Am Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:21:21 GMT hat "Big David"
> >> ><dbo...@spamhome.com> irgendwie gejammert:
> >> >
> >> >>Sacreligious. Out with thy demons, Blasphemer. However, I think the
> >> >>Belgians make the best fine chocolates, even better than the Swiss.
> >> >Agreed. Belgian chocolate is superb. Swiss chocolate is useful for
> >> >making a chocolate fondue.
> >> >>
> >> >>> I don't like their beer.
> >> >>
> >> >>Well, the Germans and Italians both make better beer. Its like the Alps
> >> >>stopped all the good brewmasters from crossing into Swiss territory. They
> >> >>still make better beer than 90% of what passes for beer here in the U.S.
> >> >The Belgians make some kick-ass beer. But, shhh - it seems to be a
> >> >big secret.
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Not much of a secret; any good grocery store here on the left side of
> >> Merika has a couple of brands on the shelves.
> >
> >I'd be willing to bet I could find Chimay here in Bloomie if I tried,
> >and we're not hardly on the Left Coast.
>
> Thanks for supporting my point, Dana. :)
To support it further, I first ran across Chimay at The Heartland Cafe,
Chicago's best known lefty-trendy-health-food-restaurant, where it's a
regular on the beer list.
StarChaser_Tyger
>Am Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:12:50 GMT hat geo...@usa.net (Geoduck)
>irgendwie gejammert:
>
>>I believe that there are soy 'sausages' with genuinely no meat.
>
>Correct. Morningstar Farms has one of the more marketed versions.
>They're not bad, provided you haven't eaten real meat in some time.
>These are specifically designed for the veg community, but more for
>the Seventh Day Adventists.
In the sense that suffering in this life improves your chances in the
next?
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information, which artists
do and don't want their work posted. http://web.tampabay.rr.com/starchsr/
Address no longer munged for the inconvienence of spammers.
(Yes, this really is me.)
Rich Clancey
+ To support it further, I first ran across Chimay at The Heartland Cafe,
+ Chicago's best known lefty-trendy-health-food-restaurant, where it's a
+ regular on the beer list.
And it goes great with the dried squid tentacles.
StarChaser_Tyger
>The Belgians make some kick-ass beer. But, shhh - it seems to be a
>big secret. Next time you're in southern germany, drop by the Andechs
>Monastery and have some Andechs Doppelbock. Now that's some die and
>go to heaven beer!
Is that the one where if you run up the two flights of stairs after
one of their enormous mugs, you get a T-shirt?
<I don't know. Someone at work who was in the army told me about a
monastery on a mountain with the above thing going, and I was looking
for confirmation...>
Nostradamus
>GrapeApe <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote:
>> I was checking the greatly improved straight dope web site for the first time
>> in a coupla years to see if Cece did the helium ballons in the moving car thing
>> (he did)
>
>> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_349a.html
>
>> and was very heartened to discover Cecil has taken my side on a very important
>> issue. White Chocolate is not Chocolate!
>
>Yes, it is plain to see that long term association with AOL has robbed
>poor Cece of his infallibility. Sad to see him go thus.
>
>Anyone with an ounce of real taste knows that white chocolate is the
>supreme chocolate. The rest are adulterations, sinking below the divine.
No matter how much you might like WC, calling it "chocolate" is a
misnomer. Remember that the Master said ". . . I decline to deal in
euphemism when discussing the subject."
(http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_420.html). Personally, I like
the term "vegetable oil patties."