"Fargo" and GMAC Scams
Brettster
curious to know more about one of the subplots.
In the film, the auto dealer Jerry Lundegaard (played by William H.
Macy) is shown talking on the phone to somebody at the GMAC Finance
Group. He is running some sort of a scam involving phony cars and
vehicle ID numbers. Is this a real scam? Has it ever been successful?
(Lundegaard's bid fails spectacularly.) What are the specific
machinations of this scam?
Lars Eighner
<feaec5c5-d8a3-4db5...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, the
lovely and talented Brettster broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
All I understand is that he had GMAC financing the sale of cars that did not
exist to customers that did not exist and somehow he was pocketing the money.
He got $350k into them, but I did not understand what he was doing with the
money. Gambling? Shirley spending that kind of money in those days would
have registered with his FiL if not his wife.
I have no idea if that particular scam ever worked, but whenever the money
people are far away there is an opportunity.
Back in the Savings&Loan housing crash of the '80s I was approached to
participate in a property management scam. I think it was because I could
type and I had a typewriter with interchangeable daisy-wheel print elements.
The idea was that there were tons of foreclosed properties owned by various
investment pools headquartered in distance places. So the "management
company" would charge them for maintaining and repairing the property,
mostly including work that was not done, or not done as billed (patch a
carpet and charge the owners for replacing the whole carpet, mowing just
often enough to avoid a citation and charge for weekly mowing, etc.).
Creating phony letterhead and stuff was much harder in those days, but
someone who worked in a print/copy shop was supposed to ripoff legit invoice
forms, doctor them, and runoff copies. I was supposed to use the
daisy-wheel typewriter to fill out various phony invoices which wouldn't all
be in the same typeface. I don't know if anything ever came of this, but it
would be much easier to run the scam today as phony letterhead and
photoshopped before-and-after repair photos would be a breeze.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> use...@larseighner.com
Countdown: 301 days to go.
D.F. Manno
<feaec5c5-d8a3-4db5...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Brettster <brett...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm guessing here, but it would seem to involve creating a phony vehicle
with a phony vehicle ID and a phony potential buyer. The dealer (or a
salesman) goes to GMAC and tells them he has a buyer, gives the phony
information, and gets them to finance the car. GMAC makes the loan, pays
the dealer for the vehicle, and the dealer pockets the cash.
I don't see how a dealer (or a salesman) could pull this off for long
without getting caught, though. What happens when the payments aren't
made?
--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
"They bury your dreams and dig up the worthless/Goodnight/God bless/And
kiss goodbye to the earth/The other side of summer"
Les Albert
wrote:
> Brettster <brett...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Watching the Coen Brothers movie "Fargo" over the weekend, I was
>> curious to know more about one of the subplots.
>> In the film, the auto dealer Jerry Lundegaard (played by William H.
>> Macy) is shown talking on the phone to somebody at the GMAC Finance
>> Group. He is running some sort of a scam involving phony cars and
>> vehicle ID numbers. Is this a real scam? Has it ever been successful?
>> (Lundegaard's bid fails spectacularly.) What are the specific
>> machinations of this scam?
>I'm guessing here, but it would seem to involve creating a phony vehicle
>with a phony vehicle ID and a phony potential buyer. The dealer (or a
>salesman) goes to GMAC and tells them he has a buyer, gives the phony
>information, and gets them to finance the car. GMAC makes the loan, pays
>the dealer for the vehicle, and the dealer pockets the cash.
>I don't see how a dealer (or a salesman) could pull this off for long
>without getting caught, though. What happens when the payments aren't
>made?
The police investigate and the dealer flees the interview.
Les
Mr C
> In our last episode,
> <feaec5c5-d8a3-4db5-a969-ad4efd4cb...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, the
> lovely and talented Brettster broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
> > Watching the Coen Brothers movie "Fargo" over the weekend, I was
> > curious to know more about one of the subplots.
> > In the film, the auto dealer Jerry Lundegaard (played by William H.
> > Macy) is shown talking on the phone to somebody at the GMAC Finance
> > Group. He is running some sort of a scam involving phony cars and
> > vehicle ID numbers. Is this a real scam? Has it ever been successful?
> > (Lundegaard's bid fails spectacularly.) What are the specific
> > machinations of this scam?
>
> All I understand is that he had GMAC financing the sale of cars that did not
> exist to customers that did not exist and somehow he was pocketing the money.
> He got $350k into them, but I did not understand what he was doing with the
> money. Gambling? Shirley spending that kind of money in those days would
> have registered with his FiL if not his wife.
>
What had he done with that money so bad that he would kidnap his
wife? But perhaps we're better off not knowing, like what's in the
briefcase in Pulp Fiction.
Mr C, who still hates Magnolia
Mike Williams
"Based on a True Story"
Between 1980 and 1991, GMAC was the victim of an admitted US$6.2 billion
fraud involving a Long Island Buick-Pontiac dealer named John McNamara.
McNamara borrowed the money over the course of 11 years taking out loans
for vans, purportedly destined for export to Cyprus, that did not exist.
He converted about $422 million of that for his own use to invest in
real-estate development, gold mines, oil businesses, commodities trading
and a mortgage financing company. He used the balance of the loan
proceeds to pay interest and principal to G.M.A.C., in effect borrowing
more to pay off the old loans.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9e0ce5d71f38f933a2575ac0a9
64958260
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
QueBarbara
<use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
>In our last episode,
><feaec5c5-d8a3-4db5...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, the
>lovely and talented Brettster broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>> Watching the Coen Brothers movie "Fargo" over the weekend, I was
>> curious to know more about one of the subplots.
>
>> In the film, the auto dealer Jerry Lundegaard (played by William H.
>> Macy) is shown talking on the phone to somebody at the GMAC Finance
>> Group. He is running some sort of a scam involving phony cars and
>> vehicle ID numbers. Is this a real scam? Has it ever been successful?
>> (Lundegaard's bid fails spectacularly.) What are the specific
>> machinations of this scam?
>
>All I understand is that he had GMAC financing the sale of cars that did not
>exist to customers that did not exist and somehow he was pocketing the money.
>He got $350k into them, but I did not understand what he was doing with the
>money. Gambling? Shirley spending that kind of money in those days would
>have registered with his FiL if not his wife.
>
>I have no idea if that particular scam ever worked, but whenever the money
>people are far away there is an opportunity.
>
>Back in the Savings&Loan housing crash of the '80s I was approached to
>participate in a property management scam. [snip scam]
The undertaker in my hometown in Indiana got busted for ripping-off
life insurance companies. He was "collecting on insurance policies by
submitting death claims for individuals who were still living." How
can you do something like that and not think you're going to get
caught?
--
QueBarbara
Opus the Penguin
You've no call to get snippy. He's just trying to do his job there,
ya know?
--
Opus the Penguin
I love being an evil influence. - Lesmond
D.F. Manno
QueBarbara <que.barb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The undertaker in my hometown in Indiana got busted for ripping-off
> life insurance companies. He was "collecting on insurance policies by
> submitting death claims for individuals who were still living." How
> can you do something like that and not think you're going to get
> caught?
One of the dirty little secrets of the life insurance business is that
the death benefit is never paid on many policies. The policies lapse,
people forget they have them, people don't tell their next of kin they
have them, term policies expire without conversion (to whole life), etc.
The undertaker may have been gambling that all of the policies on which
he submitted phony claims would fall into those categories.
ZBicyclist
Wow. So the scam is believable.
If I recall the movie correctly, Lundegaard is portrayed as a failure,
possibly one who's tried a few get-rich-quick schemes as a way to show his
overbearing father-in-law that he can play with the big boys. It doesn't
seem implausible to me that he'd have enough hidden debt so the $350,000
would be that visible to his father-in-law.
--
Mike Kruger
"You have to be careful if you are reckless." - Richard M. Daley
Mike Williams
I guess the scam works like this:
You're a used car dealer and you sell a non-existent car to a
non-existent buyer. You ask them if they'd like you to arrange finance
and they agree. You fill out the paperwork for them and obtain a loan
from GMAC. You keep, say, 10% of the borrowed money for yourself and use
the rest to make the monthly repayments.
After a while, the money runs out (a) because you spent 10% of it for
your own purposes and (b) because GMAC charge interest on the loan. When
that happens you repeat the process with another non-existent car, using
the money from a second loan to continue to pay the repayments on both
cars, perhaps taking another 10% to spend yourself.
When the GMAC guys look at any individual loan, they're happy because
the repayments arrive and the loan gets paid off on schedule.
When the GMAC guys look at the bigger picture, they're happy because
your used car dealership appears to be booming and bringing them more
business at an exponential rate.
The whole system is obviously unstable. At some point you have to take
what's left of the money and run, leaving GMAC with a lots of loans that
will never be repaid and no cars to repossess.
chris greville
"D.F. Manno" <dfm...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:dfmanno-7848E5...@sn-radius.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>
> One of the dirty little secrets of the life insurance business is that
> the death benefit is never paid on many policies. The policies lapse,
> people forget they have them, people don't tell their next of kin they
> have them, term policies expire without conversion (to whole life), etc.
> The undertaker may have been gambling that all of the policies on which
> he submitted phony claims would fall into those categories.
>
In the UK, we call those orphan polocies. The funds were ring fenced until a
claiment came forward. And they did not count as assets to the insurance
company.
Recently, the law changed and a number of companies are looking at
distributing the orphan fund as a bonus to the existing stock (share)
holders and a much, much lower percentage to existing policy holders. There
is at least one case that I know off where a policy holders action group are
demanding a much larger percentage to be paid to them.
As with most of the goverments badly drafted changes, they have appointed a
watch dog who is supposed to look after the p/holders interests. And is not
doing a very good job.
Bob Ward
<nos...@econym.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>You're a used car dealer and you sell a non-existent car to a
>non-existent buyer. You ask them if they'd like you to arrange finance
>and they agree. You fill out the paperwork for them and obtain a loan
>from GMAC. You keep, say, 10% of the borrowed money for yourself and use
>the rest to make the monthly repayments.
>
>After a while, the money runs out (a) because you spent 10% of it for
>your own purposes and (b) because GMAC charge interest on the loan. When
>that happens you repeat the process with another non-existent car, using
>the money from a second loan to continue to pay the repayments on both
>cars, perhaps taking another 10% to spend yourself.
>
>When the GMAC guys look at any individual loan, they're happy because
>the repayments arrive and the loan gets paid off on schedule.
>
>When the GMAC guys look at the bigger picture, they're happy because
>your used car dealership appears to be booming and bringing them more
>business at an exponential rate.
>
>The whole system is obviously unstable. At some point you have to take
>what's left of the money and run, leaving GMAC with a lots of loans that
>will never be repaid and no cars to repossess.
>
>--
>Mike Williams
>Gentleman of Leisure
This might work if you can get GMAC to believe that you are an
authorized Ponziac dealer.
Brettster
> I guess the scam works like this:
Very well explained. Thank you.
Brett
Lars Eighner
talented Mike Williams broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
> I guess the scam works like this:
> You're a used car dealer and you sell a non-existent car to a
> non-existent buyer. You ask them if they'd like you to arrange finance
> and they agree. You fill out the paperwork for them and obtain a loan
> from GMAC. You keep, say, 10% of the borrowed money for yourself and use
> the rest to make the monthly repayments.
Ya, you betcha.
Macy's character obviously works for a dealership that deals in new and used
cars. We see him doing the "factory undercoating" scam on a couple, and
obviously you can't sell factory undercoating for a used car. But they also
deal in used cars, which stock supplied the car used by the kidnapers.
The GMAC scam obviously only works (so far as it does) on used cars, because
otherwise the discrepency between the phantom sales and factory orders
would quickly become apparent. It also explains how he could get $350k into
GMAC without it being readily apparent --- much of it is servicing the
pyramid. What isn't quite clear is why GMAC didn't demand legible VINs
(wehicle identification numbers) before he was $360k into them.
> After a while, the money runs out (a) because you spent 10% of it for
> your own purposes and (b) because GMAC charge interest on the loan. When
> that happens you repeat the process with another non-existent car, using
> the money from a second loan to continue to pay the repayments on both
> cars, perhaps taking another 10% to spend yourself.
> When the GMAC guys look at any individual loan, they're happy because
> the repayments arrive and the loan gets paid off on schedule.
> When the GMAC guys look at the bigger picture, they're happy because
> your used car dealership appears to be booming and bringing them more
> business at an exponential rate.
> The whole system is obviously unstable. At some point you have to take
> what's left of the money and run, leaving GMAC with a lots of loans that
> will never be repaid and no cars to repossess.
--
Mike Williams
>In our last episode, <rqHx4RDz...@econym.demon.co.uk>, the lovely and
>talented Mike Williams broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>> I guess the scam works like this:
>
>> You're a used car dealer and you sell a non-existent car to a
>> non-existent buyer. You ask them if they'd like you to arrange finance
>> and they agree. You fill out the paperwork for them and obtain a loan
>> from GMAC. You keep, say, 10% of the borrowed money for yourself and use
>> the rest to make the monthly repayments.
>
>Ya, you betcha.
>
>Macy's character obviously works for a dealership that deals in new and used
>cars. We see him doing the "factory undercoating" scam on a couple, and
>obviously you can't sell factory undercoating for a used car. But they also
>deal in used cars, which stock supplied the car used by the kidnapers.
>
>The GMAC scam obviously only works (so far as it does) on used cars, because
>otherwise the discrepency between the phantom sales and factory orders
>would quickly become apparent. It also explains how he could get $350k into
>GMAC without it being readily apparent --- much of it is servicing the
>pyramid. What isn't quite clear is why GMAC didn't demand legible VINs
>(wehicle identification numbers) before he was $360k into them.
Do we know when Fargo was set?
I know it was released in 1996, but if it was set in 1991 or 1992 that
would match the time when GMAC tightened up their procedures. Until
then, John McNamara had been getting away with obtaining GMAC loans on
non-existent vehicles. After that scam was revealed, GMAC tightened up
its procedures and that could well have included requiring legible VINs
on the documentation.
Jerry Lundegaard, could have been operating the same type of scam as
John McNamara for a few years, but suddenly finds that he can't obtain
any new loans under the improved GMAC procedures and therefore has no
way to service the pyramid of debt on the existing loans.
Lars Eighner
talented Mike Williams broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
> Wasn't it Lars Eighner who wrote:
>>In our last episode, <rqHx4RDz...@econym.demon.co.uk>, the lovely and
>>talented Mike Williams broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>>
>>> I guess the scam works like this:
>>
>>> You're a used car dealer and you sell a non-existent car to a
>>> non-existent buyer. You ask them if they'd like you to arrange finance
>>> and they agree. You fill out the paperwork for them and obtain a loan
>>> from GMAC. You keep, say, 10% of the borrowed money for yourself and use
>>> the rest to make the monthly repayments.
>>
>>Ya, you betcha.
>>
>>Macy's character obviously works for a dealership that deals in new and used
>>cars. We see him doing the "factory undercoating" scam on a couple, and
>>obviously you can't sell factory undercoating for a used car. But they also
>>deal in used cars, which stock supplied the car used by the kidnapers.
>>
>>The GMAC scam obviously only works (so far as it does) on used cars, because
>>otherwise the discrepency between the phantom sales and factory orders
>>would quickly become apparent. It also explains how he could get $350k into
>>GMAC without it being readily apparent --- much of it is servicing the
>>pyramid. What isn't quite clear is why GMAC didn't demand legible VINs
>>(wehicle identification numbers) before he was $360k into them.
> Do we know when Fargo was set?
I think not really. The "based on a true story" thing seems to be
"cobbled together with pieces of several true stories and a bunch of stuff
we made up." The "true story" disclaimer says it occurred in 1987, but the
disclaimer is part of the fiction. I gather, however, that this does
indicate the authors intended it be 1987.
> I know it was released in 1996, but if it was set in 1991 or 1992 that
> would match the time when GMAC tightened up their procedures.
I gather getting the timeline right on this sort of thing would not be a
high priority. The body disposed of in woodchipper thing has been related
to a real case, but other details of that case have nothing in common with
Fargo. Guy hires hit man to off his wife for *insurance* is a fairly common
occurrence. Person kidnaps self to collect ransom from rich relative is not
unheard of. Merging the two would not be much of a stretch. Even the title
doesn't have much to do with the fiction, as nothing really pertinent
happens in Fargo.
> Until then, John McNamara had been getting away with obtaining GMAC loans
> on non-existent vehicles. After that scam was revealed, GMAC tightened up
> its procedures and that could well have included requiring legible VINs on
> the documentation.
> Jerry Lundegaard, could have been operating the same type of scam as
> John McNamara for a few years, but suddenly finds that he can't obtain
> any new loans under the improved GMAC procedures and therefore has no
> way to service the pyramid of debt on the existing loans.
--
Rick B.
news:slrnfuhl2p....@debranded.larseighner.com:
> In our last episode, <rqHx4RDz...@econym.demon.co.uk>, the lovely
> and talented Mike Williams broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>> I guess the scam works like this:
>
>> You're a used car dealer and you sell a non-existent car to a
>> non-existent buyer. You ask them if they'd like you to arrange finance
>> and they agree. You fill out the paperwork for them and obtain a loan
>> from GMAC. You keep, say, 10% of the borrowed money for yourself and
>> use the rest to make the monthly repayments.
>
> Ya, you betcha.
>
> Macy's character obviously works for a dealership that deals in new and
> used cars. We see him doing the "factory undercoating" scam on a
> couple, and obviously you can't sell factory undercoating for a used
> car. But they also deal in used cars, which stock supplied the car used
> by the kidnapers.
>
> The GMAC scam obviously only works (so far as it does) on used cars,
> because otherwise the discrepency between the phantom sales and factory
> orders would quickly become apparent. It also explains how he could get
> $350k into GMAC without it being readily apparent --- much of it is
> servicing the pyramid. What isn't quite clear is why GMAC didn't demand
> legible VINs (wehicle identification numbers) before he was $360k into
> them.
Not to mention looking them up in The Big Book of Actually Issued VINs. Or
at least running them through the Legitimate VIN Algorithm.
Opus the Penguin
> In article <68kgu3pttqfd4apca...@4ax.com>,
> QueBarbara <que.barb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The undertaker in my hometown in Indiana got busted for
>> ripping-off life insurance companies. He was "collecting on
>> insurance policies by submitting death claims for individuals who
>> were still living." How can you do something like that and not
>> think you're going to get caught?
>
> One of the dirty little secrets of the life insurance business is
> that the death benefit is never paid on many policies. The
> policies lapse, people forget they have them, people don't tell
> their next of kin they have them, term policies expire without
> conversion (to whole life), etc.
How do you convert a term policy to whole life? I have term life
insurance. My insurance company tells me the policy has no cash
value. It expires on 10/23/2018. If I don't pre-decease it, Mrs. P
gets bupkis.
--
Opus the Penguin
You're a teapot. And you reek of wombat. - N. Jill Marsh
Lars Eighner
lovely and talented Opus the Penguin broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
2018 is a long way away. Look on the bright side, you could get something
fatal.
I do wonder about those "orphan" policies, though. It's a wonder that
anything escheatable has been escheat by the Sate of Texas.
Binyamin Dissen
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
:>How do you convert a term policy to whole life? I have term life
:>insurance. My insurance company tells me the policy has no cash
:>value. It expires on 10/23/2018. If I don't pre-decease it, Mrs. P
:>gets bupkis.
It has some value as it goes for another ten years or so.
If it was pre-paid you probably can get some money back for canceling it.
If you are still making regular payments it has little value (unless you
happen to be near death, in which case they would pay you a percentage to
cancel).
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
Mary
>nothing really pertinent happens in Fargo.
Oh? You've been there too?
Mary
xho...@gmail.com
>
> The undertaker in my hometown in Indiana got busted for ripping-off
> life insurance companies. He was "collecting on insurance policies by
> submitting death claims for individuals who were still living."
What am I missing here? How many people have life insurance with their
neighborhood undertaker as the beneficiary? Was he dressing up as Mrs.
Doubtfire to do the collections?
> How
> can you do something like that and not think you're going to get
> caught?
It's like eating cheeseburgers and smoking.
Xho
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the
payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked
advertisement in accordance with 18 U.S.C. Section 1734 solely to indicate
this fact.
Opus the Penguin
> In our last episode,
> <Xns9A6C5AABA408Bop...@127.0.0.1>, the lovely and
> talented Opus the Penguin broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
>
>>> In article <68kgu3pttqfd4apca...@4ax.com>,
>>> QueBarbara <que.barb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The undertaker in my hometown in Indiana got busted for
>>>> ripping-off life insurance companies. He was "collecting on
>>>> insurance policies by submitting death claims for individuals
>>>> who were still living." How can you do something like that and
>>>> not think you're going to get caught?
>>>
>>> One of the dirty little secrets of the life insurance business
>>> is that the death benefit is never paid on many policies. The
>>> policies lapse, people forget they have them, people don't tell
>>> their next of kin they have them, term policies expire without
>>> conversion (to whole life), etc.
>
>> How do you convert a term policy to whole life? I have term life
>> insurance. My insurance company tells me the policy has no cash
>> value. It expires on 10/23/2018. If I don't pre-decease it, Mrs.
>> P gets bupkis.
>
> 2018 is a long way away. Look on the bright side, you could get
> something fatal.
>
Oh, definitely. I'm not giving up hope just yet.
--
Opus the Penguin
I have a two year old. It doesn't matter which way it hangs. - Glenn
Dowdy
QueBarbara
>QueBarbara <que.barb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The undertaker in my hometown in Indiana got busted for ripping-off
>> life insurance companies. He was "collecting on insurance policies by
>> submitting death claims for individuals who were still living."
>
>What am I missing here? How many people have life insurance with their
>neighborhood undertaker as the beneficiary? Was he dressing up as Mrs.
>Doubtfire to do the collections?
>
I'm not sure of the exact procedure, but many funerals homes will
accept the deceased's life insurance policy as an I.O.U. It must be
standard. The story is here:
--
QueBarbara
Nasti J
>
> Macy's character obviously works for a dealership that deals in new and used
> cars. We see him doing the "factory undercoating" scam on a couple, and
> obviously you can't sell factory undercoating for a used car. But they also
> deal in used cars, which stock supplied the car used by the kidnapers.
Why did the car have dealer plates if it was a used car? IMDB says:
"The movie opens with a truck towing a new tan Ciera Cutlass through
the snow to a small inn in Fargo, North Dakota." Roger Ebert's
website http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20010405/REVIEWS08/104050301/1023
says: "...Carl Showalter (Steve Buscemi) and his silent, implacable
partner (Peter Stormare), who have agreed to kidnap her for $40,000,
plus a new car Jerry will steal off the lot. "
Incidentally, I highly reccomend Frances McDormand's new flick, "Miss
Pettigrew Lives for a Day".
Bill Turlock
LOL!
xho...@gmail.com
Ah, thanks. After reading that my interpretation is that many people do in
fact have life insurance policies with the undertaker as the beneficiary,
as part of a prepaid funeral package.
Opus the Penguin
> On Mar 25, 3:34 am, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
>>
>> Macy's character obviously works for a dealership that deals in
>> new and used cars. We see him doing the "factory undercoating"
>> scam on a couple, and obviously you can't sell factory
>> undercoating for a used car. But they also deal in used cars,
>> which stock supplied the car used by the kidnapers.
>
> Why did the car have dealer plates if it was a used car? IMDB
> says: "The movie opens with a truck towing a new tan Ciera Cutlass
> through the snow to a small inn in Fargo, North Dakota." Roger
> Ebert's website
> http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20010405/
> REVIEWS08/104050301/1023 says: "...Carl Showalter (Steve Buscemi)
> and his silent, implacable partner (Peter Stormare), who have
> agreed to kidnap her for $40,000, plus a new car Jerry will steal
> off the lot. "
> "Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day".
>
I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work, there, Lou.
--
Opus the Penguin
Oh dear. Did I post that out loud? - QueBarbara
Jim Prescott
>insurance. My insurance company tells me the policy has no cash
>value. It expires on 10/23/2018. If I don't pre-decease it, Mrs. P
>gets bupkis.
Every policy is different, you'd have to call the insurance company and
ask. If conversion is possible expect it to be completely impossible
to determine if doing so makes financial sense. As a rule everything
to do with whole life is a bad deal for most people but there are
exceptions.
Bupkis is a perfectly reasonable amount of life insurance for many
couples. After receiving your worldly possessions will the Mrs and any
financial dependents be able to maintain a suitable standard of living
based on her own assets and income?
While life insurance is very important for many, the idea that everyone
needs it benefits only the insurance industry. (just a general comment,
not aimed at Opus).
--
Jim Prescott - Computing and Networking Group j...@seas.rochester.edu
School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, University of Rochester, NY
Opus the Penguin
> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>How do you convert a term policy to whole life? I have term life
>>insurance. My insurance company tells me the policy has no cash
>>value. It expires on 10/23/2018. If I don't pre-decease it, Mrs. P
>>gets bupkis.
>
> Every policy is different, you'd have to call the insurance
> company and ask. If conversion is possible expect it to be
> completely impossible to determine if doing so makes financial
> sense. As a rule everything to do with whole life is a bad deal
> for most people but there are exceptions.
>
> Bupkis is a perfectly reasonable amount of life insurance for many
> couples. After receiving your worldly possessions will the Mrs
> and any financial dependents be able to maintain a suitable
> standard of living based on her own assets and income?
>
No. Absolutely not. Not even close.
We really need a similar policy on Mrs. P, because there ain't no way
I can support us in a 3-bedroom place if she croaks. But I don't
think such a policy would be particularly affordable now.
--
Opus the Penguin
It's easy to resist temptation when it comes in the form of
Budweiser. - darkon
Bob Ward
wrote:
You know you've been had when CarFax reports the VIN as being
registered with "OMFG-LOL" or "YBF-HAND"
D.F. Manno
Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
>
> > One of the dirty little secrets of the life insurance business is
> > that the death benefit is never paid on many policies. The
> > policies lapse, people forget they have them, people don't tell
> > their next of kin they have them, term policies expire without
> > conversion (to whole life), etc.
>
> How do you convert a term policy to whole life? I have term life
> insurance. My insurance company tells me the policy has no cash
> value. It expires on 10/23/2018. If I don't pre-decease it, Mrs. P
> gets bupkis.
Not all term life policies are convertible. You'd have to read the
policy to find out if yours is.
If it is, some policies do not require evidence of insurability. All you
have to do is fill out a form and mail it to the insurance company.
Others require evidence of insurability, and in those cases it will be
much like applying for a new policy: health questions, possibly a
medical exam, etc.
Opus the Penguin
> In article <Xns9A6C5AABA408Bop...@127.0.0.1>,
> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
>>
>> > One of the dirty little secrets of the life insurance business
>> > is that the death benefit is never paid on many policies. The
>> > policies lapse, people forget they have them, people don't tell
>> > their next of kin they have them, term policies expire without
>> > conversion (to whole life), etc.
>>
>> How do you convert a term policy to whole life? I have term life
>> insurance. My insurance company tells me the policy has no cash
>> value. It expires on 10/23/2018. If I don't pre-decease it, Mrs.
>> P gets bupkis.
>
> Not all term life policies are convertible. You'd have to read the
> policy to find out if yours is.
>
> If it is, some policies do not require evidence of insurability.
> All you have to do is fill out a form and mail it to the insurance
> company.
>
> Others require evidence of insurability, and in those cases it
> will be much like applying for a new policy: health questions,
> possibly a medical exam, etc.
>
Ugh. It sounds easier if I just wrap things up in the next decade and
call it a day.
--
Opus the Penguin
I'm not even entirely sure what I'm talking about anymore. - Pushmi-
Pullyu
Mary
wrote:
> D.F. Manno (dfma...@mail.com) wrote:
> > In article <Xns9A6C5AABA408Bopusthepenguinnet...@127.0.0.1>,
> > Opus the Penguin <opusthepenguin+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> D.F. Manno (dfma...@mail.com) wrote:
>
> >> > One of the dirty little secrets of the life insurance business
> >> > is that the death benefit is never paid on many policies. The
> >> > policies lapse, people forget they have them, people don't tell
> >> > their next of kin they have them, term policies expire without
> >> > conversion (to whole life), etc.
>
> >> How do you convert a term policy to whole life? I have term life
> >> insurance. My insurance company tells me the policy has no cash
> >> value. It expires on 10/23/2018. If I don't pre-decease it, Mrs.
> >> P gets bupkis.
>
> > Not all term life policies are convertible. You'd have to read the
> > policy to find out if yours is.
>
> > If it is, some policies do not require evidence of insurability.
> > All you have to do is fill out a form and mail it to the insurance
> > company.
>
> > Others require evidence of insurability, and in those cases it
> > will be much like applying for a new policy: health questions,
> > possibly a medical exam, etc.
>
> Ugh. It sounds easier if I just wrap things up in the next decade and
> call it a day.
Well, that's pretty selfish. Where the hell is AFCA going to get
another penguin?
Mary
Opus the Penguin
You can buy one with the insurance money.
--
Opus the Penguin
I try to not get too involved in the details of doll/dinosaur sex. -
groo
Les Albert
We're back to bupkis.
Les
Les
Lee Ayrton
> On Mar 24, 6:01 pm, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
>> In our last episode,
>> <feaec5c5-d8a3-4db5-a969-ad4efd4cb...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, the
>> lovely and talented Brettster broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>>
>>> Watching the Coen Brothers movie "Fargo" over the weekend, I was
>>> curious to know more about one of the subplots.
>>> In the film, the auto dealer Jerry Lundegaard (played by William H.
>>> Macy) is shown talking on the phone to somebody at the GMAC Finance
>>> Group. He is running some sort of a scam involving phony cars and
>>> vehicle ID numbers. Is this a real scam? Has it ever been successful?
>>> (Lundegaard's bid fails spectacularly.) What are the specific
>>> machinations of this scam?
>>
>> All I understand is that he had GMAC financing the sale of cars that did not
>> exist to customers that did not exist and somehow he was pocketing the money.
>> He got $350k into them, but I did not understand what he was doing with the
>> money. Gambling? Shirley spending that kind of money in those days would
>> have registered with his FiL if not his wife.
>>
> This is the flaw in the movie (well, every movie has one, at least).
> What had he done with that money so bad that he would kidnap his
> wife? But perhaps we're better off not knowing, like what's in the
> briefcase in Pulp Fiction.
You see that as a flaw? Is it not enough to know that he's in a financial
jam?
--
"Thank heavens I'm atheist, otherwise I'd be in fear of going
to hell." Veronique explains comparative religion.
Bob Ward
But will the replacement penguin fit in the AFCA cannon? It's hard to
find a penguin of your caliber.
ZBicyclist
>
> Bupkis is a perfectly reasonable amount of life insurance for many
> couples.
Recently my daughter was pitched by a "financial advisor" who almost had her
talked into a rather astounding amount of whole life -- for a single 25 year
old woman, in good health, with no dependents, living on a public school
teacher's salary. But luckily she mentioned it to me first.
I told her that just because her father was stupid enough to buy a whole
life policy 7 years before he had his first child was no reason for her to
repeat the error.
art...@yahoo.com
> On 25 Mar 2008 14:51:21 GMT, xhos...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >QueBarbara <que.barbara.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The undertaker in my hometown in Indiana got busted for ripping-off
> >> life insurance companies. He was "collecting on insurance policies by
> >> submitting death claims for individuals who were still living."
>
> >What am I missing here? How many people have life insurance with their
> >neighborhood undertaker as the beneficiary? Was he dressing up as Mrs.
> >Doubtfire to do the collections?
>
> I'm not sure of the exact procedure, but many funerals homes will
> accept the deceased's life insurance policy as an I.O.U. It must be
> standard. The story is here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3aru9x
Someone once told me that everybody needs at least enough life
insurance to pay for their burial. I am not sure how much that is
these days though.
xho...@gmail.com
Why? If I shuffle off this mortal coil, my next of kin can take the
funeral expenses out of my savings.
> I am not sure how much that is
> these days though.
Kind of like a car. You can buy one for $240,000 if you want. Or much
much less if need be.
ZBicyclist
Not much.
Arrange for a cremation: This was $125 when I did it in 1985. My wife
arranged for one last year and it was a lot higher, but still in 3 figures.
Cardboard box is just fine.
Memorial service [without corpse]: really just church or hall
offering/rental, a minister or someone to give a eulogy. Some refreshments
are nice. Could skip hall rental and do it at home if so inclined.
Scatter ashes. Skip plot/headstone.
Really, if your estate can't spring for this, you have serious money
problems.
Nasti J
> Someone once told me that everybody needs at least enough life
> insurance to pay for their burial. I am not sure how much that is
> these days though
it averaged $6500 in 2004
Anyone receiving Social Security is entitled to a burial benefit of
$255. The benefit is paid only if there is a surviving spouse or
surviving children under the age of 18.
danny burstein
Otoh, doesn't Social Security cancel the check for
the actual month of death? That is, if you die
in mid september, the payment for that month is
blocked (or pulled back)?
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Mike Williams
>Someone once told me that everybody needs at least enough life
>insurance to pay for their burial. I am not sure how much that is
>these days though.
However, it typically makes more financial sense to put the same amount
of money that you would have paid in premiums into a more general
savings scheme.
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
Sean Houtman
> In our last episode, <rqHx4RDz...@econym.demon.co.uk>, the lovely
> and talented Mike Williams broadcast on alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>> I guess the scam works like this:
>
>> You're a used car dealer and you sell a non-existent car to a
>> non-existent buyer. You ask them if they'd like you to arrange
>> finance and they agree. You fill out the paperwork for them and
>> obtain a loan from GMAC. You keep, say, 10% of the borrowed money for
>> yourself and use the rest to make the monthly repayments.
>
> Ya, you betcha.
>
> Macy's character obviously works for a dealership that deals in new
> and used cars. We see him doing the "factory undercoating" scam on a
> couple, and obviously you can't sell factory undercoating for a used
> car. But they also deal in used cars, which stock supplied the car
> used by the kidnapers.
>
> The GMAC scam obviously only works (so far as it does) on used cars,
> because otherwise the discrepency between the phantom sales and
> factory orders would quickly become apparent. It also explains how he
> could get $350k into GMAC without it being readily apparent --- much
> of it is servicing the pyramid. What isn't quite clear is why GMAC
> didn't demand legible VINs (wehicle identification numbers) before he
> was $360k into them.
>
The way I would do it would be to use a VIN from a car that was sold for
cash, or financed through some other source. That way you have a valid
VIN, probably a real person that might even have purchased that car, so
there is something there to repo if a payment misses.
Sean
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Jim Prescott
art...@yahoo.com <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Someone once told me that everybody needs at least enough life
>insurance to pay for their burial.
"Someone" was probably an insurance salesperson or funeral director.
Insurance is a very expensive way to pay for known minor expenses. If
your finances are such that all your worldly possessions don't add up
to enough for a basic funeral then you really cannot afford insurance.
Everybody needs enough assets so that the people who are dependent on
their income (or their unpaid work that goes towards maintaining the
house and family) can maintain something close to their current
standard of living for a while. With kids "a while" is typically til
18 or until they graduate college; with a spouse "a while" can be til
their death, but can also be in the 10-20 year range on the assumption
that after that time they'll have remarried or at least had time to
adapt to a different standard of living.
Life insurance is one of the assets that can be used for this but there
are others such as money in the bank, investments, & retirement accounts.
For some people being underinsured but redoubling their efforts to pay
off the house or build up retirement assets is a sensible choice.
Mr C
Oh, it's not huge, but one of those nagging things--what motivates
this character? *Why* does he need this money? It is the central
thing behind the action of the movie, after all.
Mr C
Lee Ayrton
I'll bet that you were disappointed to find that the 39 steps was actually
just a mathmatical formula.
Anywhoo, it isn't the central thing behind the movie, it is the central
Macguffin, which isn't really a thing. Or anything at all. It is just
the excuse for telling the story.
Mark Brader
> I'll bet that you were disappointed to find that the 39 steps was actually
> just a mathmatical formula.
Pay no attention to the man behind the torn curtain!
[Which is to say, I realize you may be joking, but that's not what it was.
At least, not in the Hitchcock movie or the original novel, although the
meanings in the two were different. I don't know about the other movie
versions.]
--
Mark Brader "Nicely self-consistent. (Pay no attention to
Toronto that D-floating number behind the curtain!)"
m...@vex.net -- Chris Torek, on pasta
ZBicyclist
Update from today's WSJ:
DEADLY BUSINESS
Violence Roils Black Funeral Parlors
"According to the National Funeral Directors & Morticians Association [a
group consisting largely of African-American morticians], the average cost
of an African-American funeral is about $4,500. In many cases, the specter
of violence is driving costs up. In Cincinnati, security firms make regular
appearances at services, adding as much as $500 to the bill."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120648161243063499.html?mod=todays_us_page_one
--
Mike Kruger
"You have to be careful if you are reckless." - Richard M. Daley
Estron
>Someone once told me that everybody needs at least enough life
>insurance to pay for their burial. I am not sure how much that is
>these days though.
So, if I'm donating my body to science, I'm not being lazy or stingy to
have bupkis life insurance.
--
All opinions expressed herein are only that, and are my own.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@kc.rr.com
http://www.myspace.com/johnrmitchell
Bill Kinkaid
>Previously, in alt.fan.cecil-adams, art...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>Someone once told me that everybody needs at least enough life
>>insurance to pay for their burial. I am not sure how much that is
>>these days though.
>
>So, if I'm donating my body to science, I'm not being lazy or stingy to
>have bupkis life insurance.
But I don't think they keep it, do they? I thought they just took out
the bits they wanted and left the rest for the next-of-kin to dispose
of. Or is there a "no deposit no return" deal?
--
Bill in Vancouver
Mary
Nah, any place that has a use for body parts is going to have a
hazardous waste removal contract. Just pop the rest of the cadaver in
with the other biohazards and Bob's aunt's monkey's your uncle.
Mary
Lots42
> The undertaker in my hometown in Indiana got busted for ripping-off
> life insurance companies. He was "collecting on insurance policies by
> can you do something like that and not think you're going to get
> caught?
Same way people tell conveinence stores "I will rob you in an hour"
and surprised when the cops are waiting.
Lots42
> It's like eating cheeseburgers and smoking.
> Xho
If I interpet correctly, I was once made fun of (while walking for
exercise) by someone who was smoking and drinking beer (as a car
passenger) at the same time. I like to think I came out of that a
winner.
N Jill Marsh
wrote:
The donation programs that I am familiar with offer two options, once
they are finished with it, they will cremate remains and either
dispose of them in a mass burial of some sort, or they can be returned
to the family. This takes 1-3 years. I think the person donating
their body makes the decision about which one is done.
A Michigan cousin donated his body to his local medical
school/university, and a couple of years later my mother received a
notice in the mail to come pick up some his remains at Customs &
Immigration. I'm not sure which part of the department was holding
them, but it was no biggie to get them.
nj"native son"m
--
Welcome, stranger, to the humble neighbourhoods.
Mr C
> Anywhoo, it isn't the central thing behind the movie, it is the central
> Macguffin, which isn't really a thing. Or anything at all. It is just
> the excuse for telling the story.
>
Fargo is considerably more of a character study than most thrillers,
so I think in this case, we hope for a convincing rationale for
Jerry's extreme behavior. That we don't get one weakens it a bit.
YMMV.
Mr C
Mr C
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:37:56 GMT, Bill Kinkaid <davelis...@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:54:46 -0500, Estron <est...@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >>So, if I'm donating my body to science, I'm not being lazy or stingy to
> >>have bupkis life insurance.
>
> >But I don't think they keep it, do they? I thought they just took out
> >the bits they wanted and left the rest for the next-of-kin to dispose
> >of. Or is there a "no deposit no return" deal?
>
> The donation programs that I am familiar with offer two options, once
> they are finished with it, they will cremate remains and either
> dispose of them in a mass burial of some sort, or they can be returned
> to the family. This takes 1-3 years. I think the person donating
> their body makes the decision about which one is done.
>
> A Michigan cousin donated his body to his local medical
> school/university, and a couple of years later my mother received a
> notice in the mail to come pick up some his remains at Customs &
> Immigration. I'm not sure which part of the department was holding
> them, but it was no biggie to get them.
>
customs. Unless we've off-shored the, uh, disassembly plant.
Mr C
Jim Prescott
Bill Kinkaid <davel...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:54:46 -0500, Estron <est...@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>Previously, in alt.fan.cecil-adams, art...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>Someone once told me that everybody needs at least enough life
>>>insurance to pay for their burial.
>>have bupkis life insurance.
Arty did say "at least".
>But I don't think they keep it, do they? I thought they just took out
>the bits they wanted and left the rest for the next-of-kin to dispose
>of. Or is there a "no deposit no return" deal?
It depends on if you are talking organ donation or donating your body
to science (which typically means to a medical school).
If you are an organ donor then shortly after death needed organs will
be removed and the rest of your body is sent to your funeral home,
typically no longer that 24 hours after it would have been sent were
you not donating organs. Organ donation doesn't preclude an open
casket ceremony. You become an organ donor by telling your next of kin
that is what you want to do. You should check the box on your license
and have a note in your medical records too but 9 times out of 10 the
person that hears "I'm sorry, they're gone" is going to end up deciding
whether or not you are a donor so you should make your wishes clear to
them ahead of time.
Donating your body to science is a different thing. For starters you
need to make explicit arrangements ahead of time. In addition to being
approved for donation, this will cover a variety of specific details
(eg most medical schools want the whole body, you cannot also donate
organs). My Dad made arrangements with a local medical school several
years before he died. The school keeps the body for months or years so
it isn't available for a normal funeral-home service. When they finish
it is cremated and a non-denominational gravesite ceremony is held with
all the donors for that year. I believe there were options for either
receiving the ashes, or opting for a Catholic graveyard and ceremony.
There is no cost to the family for either option. Even with body
donation there is typically some kind of service for friends and family
shortly after death but since you are eliminating the body processing,
coffin, gravesite and maybe even the funeral home it can be pretty much
as cheap as you want it to be.
Nick Spalding
<780e356f-bc5e-4405...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
on Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT):
It could just be that Jill's mother, like Jill, lives in Canada.
--
Nick Spalding
N Jill Marsh
wrote:
It came from Michigan to Ontario.
nj"swimming the St Clair"m
Greg Goss
>art...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Someone once told me that everybody needs at least enough life
>> insurance to pay for their burial. I am not sure how much that is
>> these days though.
>
>Not much.
>Arrange for a cremation: This was $125 when I did it in 1985. My wife
>arranged for one last year and it was a lot higher, but still in 3 figures.
>Cardboard box is just fine.
>Memorial service [without corpse]: really just church or hall
>offering/rental, a minister or someone to give a eulogy. Some refreshments
>are nice. Could skip hall rental and do it at home if so inclined.
>Scatter ashes. Skip plot/headstone.
>
>Really, if your estate can't spring for this, you have serious money
>problems.
Wendy and I chose "B1" from this list
http://www.funerals-nonprofit-ccms.com/plans/calgary.html
Back then it was $565. Now it's $635. Extra death certificates cost
another $70 or so.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Lisa Ann
news:65gb4rF...@mid.individual.net...
Extra death certificates? Now there's a novel idea for a funeral: "Be one
of the first 100 people to come to Lisa's Mom's funeral, and you'll get a
special commemorative death certificate with cause of death!" (Because,
remember, I'm not putting cause of death in her obituary, unless she
actually does manage to die in her sleep - and not because she left the gas
in the fireplace on.)
I could also set up a display showing whatever it was she was working with
at the time of death - glue, grinder, saw, power drill, gourds...tastefully
done, of course. I'd remove any blood and fleshy bits first.
Hmm...I'll have to get her opinion on this.
Lisa Ann
Dover Beach
news:ft01c4$c17$1...@news.datemas.de:
> Extra death certificates? Now there's a novel idea for a funeral:
> "Be one of the first 100 people to come to Lisa's Mom's funeral, and
> you'll get a special commemorative death certificate with cause of
> death!"
Extra death certificates are surprisingly useful. Every organization in
the universe wants one. Earthlink wouldn't cancel Dad's account til I
sent them a death certificate. No financial institution will budge
until you give them a death certificate.
> (Because, remember, I'm not putting cause of death in her
> obituary, unless she actually does manage to die in her sleep - and
> not because she left the gas in the fireplace on.)
>
Party pooper.
--
Dover
Greg Goss
>"Greg Goss" <go...@gossg.org> wrote in message
>news:65gb4rF...@mid.individual.net...
>> Wendy and I chose "B1" from this list
>> http://www.funerals-nonprofit-ccms.com/plans/calgary.html
>>
>> Back then it was $565. Now it's $635. Extra death certificates cost
>> another $70 or so.
>
>Extra death certificates? Now there's a novel idea for a funeral:
There's a lot of bureaucracy involved with declaring someone dead.
The package came with two "originals" and I needed at least two more.
In this jurisdiction, the funeral home director can issue the
certificates. Getting one issued by the REAL bureaucracy would
probably cost even more than $35 per.
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
wrote:
> "Greg Goss" <go...@gossg.org> wrote in message
> news:65gb4rF...@mid.individual.net...
> > Back then it was $565. Now it's $635. Extra death certificates cost
> > another $70 or so.
>
> Extra death certificates? Now there's a novel idea for a funeral: "Be one
> of the first 100 people to come to Lisa's Mom's funeral, and you'll get a
> special commemorative death certificate with cause of death!"
Believe me, extra death certificates are absolutely necessary if
you're handling the estate. They're a lot cheaper if you order them
at the time of death. I think I got twenty or so and I'm down to
about five. I also needed some of the extras my mom had ordered at
the time of my father's death in 2002.
Everybody wants a death certificate. Social security, CalSTRS, the
probate attorney, the county tax assessor, the cemetery, the cable
company, the water, the gas, the electricity, the telephone, the bank,
the IRA part of the bank, the safety deposit part of the bank, the
investment company with the other IRA, the insurance company, the post
office, and several more that I can't think of. They also want copies
of the court order appointing the administrator or executor of the
estate.
Mary "Surprising, in some cases, to tell the truth"
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/
N Jill Marsh
wrote:
>"Greg Goss" <go...@gossg.org> wrote in message
>news:65gb4rF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> Back then it was $565. Now it's $635. Extra death certificates cost
>> another $70 or so.
>
>Extra death certificates? Now there's a novel idea for a funeral: "Be one
>of the first 100 people to come to Lisa's Mom's funeral, and you'll get a
>special commemorative death certificate with cause of death!"
Yes, there's a lot of paperwork in tidying up a person's affairs, no
matter how much time you had to prepare beforehand.
When my father died three years ago, the funeral director gave my
mother a pile of the things, at least twenty. She told him she didn't
think they were needed, he told her he'd give her some more when she
asked.
They've come in very useful, but I don't think she needed the second
print run since we were very fortunate to have been able to do so much
beforehand.
nj"for certain definitions of fortunate"m
D.F. Manno
"Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)" <reunite....@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Lisa Ann <lisa...@stalnaker.com> wrote:
>
> > "Greg Goss" <go...@gossg.org> wrote in message
>
> > > Back then it was $565. Now it's $635. Extra death certificates cost
> > > another $70 or so.
> >
> > Extra death certificates? Now there's a novel idea for a funeral: "Be one
> > of the first 100 people to come to Lisa's Mom's funeral, and you'll get a
> > special commemorative death certificate with cause of death!"
>
> Believe me, extra death certificates are absolutely necessary if
> you're handling the estate. They're a lot cheaper if you order them
> at the time of death. I think I got twenty or so and I'm down to
> about five. I also needed some of the extras my mom had ordered at
> the time of my father's death in 2002.
>
> Everybody wants a death certificate. Social security, CalSTRS, the
> probate attorney, the county tax assessor, the cemetery, the cable
> company, the water, the gas, the electricity, the telephone, the bank,
> the IRA part of the bank, the safety deposit part of the bank, the
> investment company with the other IRA, the insurance company, the post
> office, and several more that I can't think of.
Not one of whom will accept a photocopy. Oh, no, they've got to have an
original official death certificate.
--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
"They bury your dreams and dig up the worthless/Goodnight/God bless/And
kiss goodbye to the earth/The other side of summer"
Opus the Penguin
Seems antiquated. They ought to be able to access an online registry.
--
Opus the Penguin
I dunno, maybe I'll remember and be coherent, later. - Charles Bishop
Dover Beach
news:Xns9A7573312B0A8op...@127.0.0.1:
> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
>
>>
>> Not one of whom will accept a photocopy. Oh, no, they've got to
>> have an original official death certificate.
>>
>
> Seems antiquated. They ought to be able to access an online registry.
>
Oh, and if you're now the trustee for the surviving parent, many
organizations will tell you that they need to have the *original* trust
document on file. So you explain carefully that no, they don't, the
original trust document lives in the vault at the lawyers office and
they can have a certified copy of the redacted version, and that's it.
Then you usually have to escalate the discussion a few levels and it's
virtually impossible to do over the phone. You have to go to their
building and sit there looking pleasant and immovable until someone with
half a brain and a year's experience comes out and agrees.
--
Dover
xho...@gmail.com
> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
> >
> > Not one of whom will accept a photocopy. Oh, no, they've got to
> > have an original official death certificate.
> >
>
> Seems antiquated. They ought to be able to access an online registry.
But you need an original official death certificate to get onto it. And
then you need a notarized authorization authorizing them to look the person
up in it. And then you need to swear that the information you previously
submitted to the online registry in the first place was correct, and have
that affidavit notarized and guaranteed.
Xho
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the
payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked
advertisement in accordance with 18 U.S.C. Section 1734 solely to indicate
this fact.
Opus the Penguin
> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
>> >
>> > Not one of whom will accept a photocopy. Oh, no, they've got to
>> > have an original official death certificate.
>> >
>>
>> Seems antiquated. They ought to be able to access an online
>> registry.
>
> But you need an original official death certificate to get onto
> it. And then you need a notarized authorization authorizing them
> to look the person up in it. And then you need to swear that the
> information you previously submitted to the online registry in the
> first place was correct, and have that affidavit notarized and
> guaranteed.
>
> Xho
>
How about if I get an official death certificate tattooed on my
heinie? Then if someone needs to see it, I turn around and moon them.
If they want a copy, just show me where to sit.
--
Opus the Penguin
It's one thing to observe crazy in the wild, it's quite another to
have crazy googling on your computer. - Kim
N Jill Marsh
wrote:
>Oh, and if you're now the trustee for the surviving parent, many
>organizations will tell you that they need to have the *original* trust
>document on file. So you explain carefully that no, they don't, the
>original trust document lives in the vault at the lawyers office and
>they can have a certified copy of the redacted version, and that's it.
>Then you usually have to escalate the discussion a few levels and it's
>virtually impossible to do over the phone. You have to go to their
>building and sit there looking pleasant and immovable until someone with
>half a brain and a year's experience comes out and agrees.
Heh, my mother had to do this for most of the morning yesterday. She's
gotten pretty good at it, though at her age she goes for the fragile
and possibly slightly crazy look instead.
nj"sneaky sneaky"m
Bob Ward
wrote:
>
>>Oh, and if you're now the trustee for the surviving parent, many
>>organizations will tell you that they need to have the *original* trust
>>document on file. So you explain carefully that no, they don't, the
>>original trust document lives in the vault at the lawyers office and
>>they can have a certified copy of the redacted version, and that's it.
>>Then you usually have to escalate the discussion a few levels and it's
>>virtually impossible to do over the phone. You have to go to their
>>building and sit there looking pleasant and immovable until someone with
>>half a brain and a year's experience comes out and agrees.
>
>Heh, my mother had to do this for most of the morning yesterday. She's
>gotten pretty good at it, though at her age she goes for the fragile
>and possibly slightly crazy look instead.
I'm thinking that you should hire the actress that played Marilyn on
Northern Exposure.
Bob Ward
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> (xho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
>> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Not one of whom will accept a photocopy. Oh, no, they've got to
>>> > have an original official death certificate.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Seems antiquated. They ought to be able to access an online
>>> registry.
>>
>> But you need an original official death certificate to get onto
>> it. And then you need a notarized authorization authorizing them
>> to look the person up in it. And then you need to swear that the
>> information you previously submitted to the online registry in the
>> first place was correct, and have that affidavit notarized and
>> guaranteed.
>>
>> Xho
>>
>
>How about if I get an official death certificate tattooed on my
>heinie? Then if someone needs to see it, I turn around and moon them.
>
>If they want a copy, just show me where to sit.
"Opus doesn't live here any more."
xho...@gmail.com
> (xho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Not one of whom will accept a photocopy. Oh, no, they've got to
> >> > have an original official death certificate.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Seems antiquated. They ought to be able to access an online
> >> registry.
> >
> > But you need an original official death certificate to get onto
> > it. And then you need a notarized authorization authorizing them
> > to look the person up in it. And then you need to swear that the
> > information you previously submitted to the online registry in the
> > first place was correct, and have that affidavit notarized and
> > guaranteed.
> >
> > Xho
> >
>
> How about if I get an official death certificate tattooed on my
> heinie?
Your certificate or someone else's?[1]
> Then if someone needs to see it, I turn around and moon them.
You know what? Dead penguin butt.
>
> If they want a copy, just show me where to sit.
[1] apostrophe or no?
Opus the Penguin
> Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> (xho...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>> > Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> D.F. Manno (dfm...@mail.com) wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Not one of whom will accept a photocopy. Oh, no, they've got
>> >> > to have an original official death certificate.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Seems antiquated. They ought to be able to access an online
>> >> registry.
>> >
>> > But you need an original official death certificate to get onto
>> > it. And then you need a notarized authorization authorizing
>> > them to look the person up in it. And then you need to swear
>> > that the information you previously submitted to the online
>> > registry in the first place was correct, and have that
>> > affidavit notarized and guaranteed.
>> >
>> > Xho
>> >
>>
>> How about if I get an official death certificate tattooed on my
>> heinie?
>
> Your certificate or someone else's?[1]
>
Mine, of course. I like to be prepared.
>> Then if someone needs to see it, I turn around and moon them.
>
> You know what? Dead penguin butt.
>
I hate you because I laughed at that.
>> If they want a copy, just show me where to sit.
>
> [1] apostrophe or no?
>
Yes.
--
Opus the Penguin
Some days there isn't enough herring in the world to give you the
smack you're asking for. - Veronique