The straight edge subculture
Deborah
teens in Salt Lake City.(1)
It's not at all clear to me that Straight Edge is nationwide movement or
subculture, but it's hard to from an article in said publication.
Therefore, I appeal to a.f.c.a. denizens to report any solid facts they know
about this phenomenon. After all, we're Straight Dopesters, so there may be a
some kind of kinship.
1) I know this because my dentist subscribes to "Time," and I had an
appointment with him this afternoon.
Best regards from Deborah
FAQ file: http://members.aol.com/SJF1959/index.html
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Ras Harpentuan
>
> It's not at all clear to me that Straight Edge is nationwide movement or
> subculture, but it's hard to from an article in said publication.
It is a nationwide subculture. The majority of which are violent. Some
straightedgers will beat someone for smoking a cigarette outdoors in their
proximity. A straightedge is a pure vegan and against any drugs, yet they
have a penchant for violence. From the straightedge I have met, most are
into punk-rock, piercing, and really need to grow up.
Dana Carpender
Ras Harpentuan wrote:
Didn't know that they were mostly violent. Did know that the most popular
local tattoo parlor (and in a university town like this, we're overrun by
tattoo parlors), most of them are straightedge. Know that the abbreviation
for straightedge is "sXe". Also know that they're supposedly not into f***ing
around. What's the point of being a rebellious punk if you don't get to smoke
dope and get laid? I don't get it. But then, I'm a baby boomer...
Also, have been to some sXe sites, and they're *not* all vegan. There's
pressure to be vegan, but there's some ongoing debate as to whether you can be
an authentic sXe without being vegan, and on the sites I've seen the consensus
was "yes".
(Also saw a comment on one site that "no animal kills except for food'. I
posted back that apparently they'd never known a well-fed housecat.)
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, _How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet and Lost Forty Pounds!_
Hold the Toast Press
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Ras Harpentuan
...... Also know that they're supposedly not into f***ing
> around. What's the point of being a rebellious punk if you don't get to
smoke
> dope and get laid? I don't get it. But then, I'm a baby boomer...
I Know. Ok, maybe MOST are not violent, but punk music does thrive on
agression(slamdance) which many say is a sexual outlet.
BTW, I beleive the majority of straight edgers these days fal into
'generation Y' (born after 1975)
which procedes generation X (the baby-busters?) IIRC, baby boomers are the
children born right after WWII.
Ras Harpentuan
My apologies.
Ras Harpentuan <co...@static.net> wrote in message ...
> Dana Carpender <> wrote in message
deepstblu
>
> This week's "Time" magazine has an article on violence among Straight Edge
> teens in Salt Lake City.(1)
> 1) I know this because my dentist subscribes to "Time," and I had an
> appointment with him this afternoon.
Now, now. There's no need to make up a cover story; it's perfectly
natural for a healthy young woman such as yourself to have an interest
in such magazines. As long as they don't become a preoccupation, you
have nothing to worry about. While not everything that appears in "Time"
may be in good taste, much of what it has to say about current events is
more accurate than the misinformation you may hear on street corners or
in the schoolyard. And if there's anything in there you don't
understand, you can always discuss it with us here on a.f.c-a. Nobody
will make fun of you or laugh at you.
Feel better now?
Rick B.
Lalbert1
writes:
In addition, I think she owns a television set, although for years she said she
doesn't (probably a secret viewer of "Home Improvement" - not that there's
anything wrong with that).
Les
Deborah
>In addition, I think she owns a television set, although for years she said
>she
>doesn't (probably a secret viewer of "Home Improvement" - not that there's
>anything wrong with that).
When I bought a microwave oven two years ago, a friend of mine saw this as a
major concession to pop culture and possibly even the first step toward the
slippery slope that leads to TV.
But so far, no TV. Maybe I should invite people over to watch dinner warm up.
Dutch Courage
>lalb...@aol.com (Lalbert1) writes:
>
>>In addition, I think she owns a television set, although for years she said
>>she
>>doesn't (probably a secret viewer of "Home Improvement" - not that there's
>>anything wrong with that).
>
>When I bought a microwave oven two years ago, a friend of mine saw this as a
>major concession to pop culture and possibly even the first step toward the
>slippery slope that leads to TV.
>
>But so far, no TV. Maybe I should invite people over to watch dinner warm
>up.
I'm sure you'd mainly find it confusing, and I know I could do without
questions like "why do they call it 'Laverne & Shirley' when it's just
Laverne?"
"There is no land beyond the law, where tyrants rule with unshakable power.
It is but a dream from which the evil wake to face their fate, their
terrifying hour."
-Wesley Dodds.
PokeCheck8
>I knew some straightedge people in the early nineties, in Minneapolis and
>Denver. They were cool, but it's not my scene. Certainly didn't strike me
>as
>at all violent in any way.
I knew a bunch of SE kids in 1986-88. They frequented a club named Anthrax in
Stamford (and later Norwalk) CT., the "Brick N Wood" in New Haven, as well as
CBGB in NYC. (anyone remember these?)
They were mostly skinhead-ish looking skater-type people, who liked to "mosh"
before it became overpopular and really dangerous. Most of them either had a
big, black X tattooed on the back of their hand, or used indelible ink to draw
one.
Sure, a couple bag eggs were "violent," but the overall flavor of the group was
no drugs, alcohol, tobacco, premarital sex; respect your parents, respect your
girl...
Actually, the 2 violent ones I can recall went on to become some kind of
nazi-aryan wackos.
Remove the BlueLine to increase scoring chances.
AlanKngsly
>I knew a bunch of SE kids in 1986-88. They frequented a club named Anthrax
>in
>Stamford (and later Norwalk) CT., the "Brick N Wood" in New Haven, as well as
>CBGB in NYC. (anyone remember these?)
>They were mostly skinhead-ish looking skater-type people, who liked to "mosh"
>before it became overpopular and really dangerous.
In my neck of the woods it was called "slam dancing" then. "Mosh" always
seemed like it was brought in by the longhair metalheads who "crossed over" to
hard alternative in the early Nineties.
Alan
rob...@bestweb.net
>This week's "Time" magazine has an article on violence among
>Straight Edge teens in Salt Lake City.(1)
>It's not at all clear to me that Straight Edge is nationwide
>movement or subculture, but it's hard to from an article in said
>publication.
As usual, Time is far behind the times. Straight edge is a punk style that
goes back to the 1970s -- maybe even the 1960s, I forgot. It may be
summarized as "no drink, no smoke, no fuck", a friend originally described
it to me. In other words, so square they're hip in their own way. All of
these styles were reactions against the kids who were, say, 3 years older
than them -- that's how it was described in a seminar I went to at the
Libertarian Book Club about 1.5 years ago. Starting in the 1950s in the UK,
kids started rebelling, not just against the older GENERATION, but against
those who were just a few years older, who in turn were rebelling
(distinguishing themselves) against the older generation. This led to a
rapid proliferation of styles of which straight edge was one. Such styles
aren't necessarily violent, but there can be considerable belligerence by
devotees of the particular styles against those of the others, so it can
lead to violence. Such fighting began between children of different ages,
so it tended not to be fair fighting (because then the older ones would
always beat up the younger), and an ambush style developed instead.
Robert
Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered
rob...@bestweb.net
>>this as a major concession to pop culture and possibly even the
>>first step toward the slippery slope that leads to TV.
>>But so far, no TV. Maybe I should invite people over to watch
>>dinner warm up.
>I always wanted a washing machine with a glass view port in the
>front so I could watch the clothes sloshing around in the suds.
>Those store demo dishwashers with the glass fronted door also are
>fun to watch.
Reminds me of when I told my friend Michael Pinto that the Catholic
Television service was "on microwave" (ITFS, 2.2 GHz), and he quipped, "Do
you watch it on your oven?"
rob...@bestweb.net
>What's the point
>of being a rebellious punk if you don't get to smoke dope and get
>laid? I don't get it. But then, I'm a baby boomer...
That's exactly the point; they're rebelling aginst baby boomers.
rob...@bestweb.net
>It started with a song by Minor Threat (a
>Washington, DC-based hardcore band) called (surprise, surprise)
>"Straight Edge". This song was recorded back in 1980 (Lasnerian,
>but I can check my record collection if you'd like the exact date).
>The song was written as a reaction to the drug abuse prevalent in
>the hardcore scene at that time.
My sources indicate Minor Threat was referring to an already existing
phenomenon, and that straight edge (by that name) already existed as a
style. I only learned about it in the early 1980s, however.
Robert
Helge Moulding
>This week's "Time" magazine has an article on violence among
>Straight Edge teens in Salt Lake City.(1)
Yah, I know. It sure surprised me to learn that I was taking
my life in my hands by strolling out of Burger King munching
a Bacon Whopper.
But Danger is my middle name!
>It's not at all clear to me that Straight Edge is nationwide
>movement or subculture, but it's hard to from an article in
>said publication.
Not sure what you meant here. There were a couple of syntax
errors, and my parser crapped out on me. I'll email you the
dump listing if you like.
But basically, sXe is nationwide, and they are here in Utah.
Last year, or the year before, a kid was stabbed to death in
downtown SLC in a gang confrontation. One of the gangs was
reputed to be sXers.
Last year there was a huge hoody-hoo about a kid who was
going to highschool wearing a tshirt with the word "Vegan"
on it. The cops claimed that was an sXe gang shirt, and the
kid was expelled from school when he refused to doff his
wordy threads.
No comment on the sanity of the school officials or the
metropolitan gang unit. They are all hardworking people, and
no doubt could use a good vacation.
In any case, as one of the other afca operatives here in SLC
reported (how many of us are there, anyway? we should do
lunch!) there's more to worry about with violence from other
gangs. For one thing, there are about 5000 youths that the
metropolitan gang unit has identified as gang members, and
a couple or so hundred gangs to which they belong. Only a
handful of them are sXers. One nice thing about our urban
sprawl is that it keeps these kids seperated fairly
effectively. Add to that our current street construction
nightmare, and most of the little sods would rather stay at
home and watch reruns of the Jerry Springer show.
--
Helge "Danger" Moulding
mailto:hmou...@excite.com Just another guy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1401 with a weird name
Helge Moulding
>I always wanted a washing machine with a glass view port in
>the front so I could watch the clothes sloshing around in the
>suds. Those store demo dishwashers with the glass fronted door
>also are fun to watch.
We used to own one of those in Germany. In fact, it was the only
kind I'd ever known until I got to the States. I have no idea
why the Germans have to be so peculiar. But recently, when our
old washer pooped out on us, we bought a front loader with that
glass door. So now I can sit on the rug in front of the washer -
if the cats haven't pissed on it, that is, in which case I have
to sit on the cold tile floor, damn moggies - and watch while the
clothes go 'round and 'round. Sometimes I catch myself cheering
for that washrag that always seems to get knocked down by those
jeans, and that is finally climbing to the top of the pile. And
then there are the times that I'm washing my wife's
unmentionables...
>Question: where do you draw the line about what is a "pop
>culture" item vs something that might make your daily doings
>better informed, [etc snipped]
Personally, I'd rather not have a TV in the house because it is
noisy, distracting, and wastes my time. Occasionally I watch a
tape, but I do prefer to read. I wouldn't call it "pop culture"
so much as "invasive technology." You have to draw the line
somewhere.
I note that Deborah spoke of her neighbor as referring to TVs
and such as pop culture. Maybe you should be asking her.
Pop culture is what you wouldn't have in your house for fear
that your friends would think that you're too common to associate
with. It's part of ending your sentences with a preposition,
buying disposable diapers, and listening to all-talk AM radio.
--
Helge "But afca excuses a lot of it." Moulding
Lalbert1
<hmou...@excite.com> writes:
>Lalbert1 wrote in message <19990826231028...@ngol08.aol.com>...
>>I always wanted a washing machine with a glass view port in
>>the front so I could watch the clothes sloshing around in the
>>suds. Those store demo dishwashers with the glass fronted door
>>also are fun to watch.
>
>We used to own one of those in Germany. In fact, it was the only
>kind I'd ever known until I got to the States. I have no idea
>why the Germans have to be so peculiar. But recently, when our
>old washer pooped out on us, we bought a front loader with that
>glass door........
Not so peculiar. The first of the post WWII washing machines that appeared in
the U.S were front loaders with view ports. Then it was found that top loading
is desirable because you don't have to worry about door seals, door latches,
etc. Now front loaders have become the latest status symbols in high priced
washers (along with any Miele appliances). Hmm... it seems like appliances
have become part of our pop culture.
>
>>Question: where do you draw the line about what is a "pop
>>culture" item vs something that might make your daily doings
>>better informed, [etc snipped]
>
>Personally, I'd rather not have a TV in the house because it is
>noisy, distracting, and wastes my time. Occasionally I watch a
>tape, but I do prefer to read. I wouldn't call it "pop culture"
>so much as "invasive technology." You have to draw the line
>somewhere.
Having a TV in the house doesn't mean that you automatically become a clod who
doesn't read. I also like to read, and I spend more time reading than watching
TV. But there is a lot of good stuff available on TV if you like movies,
drama, nature/science shows. I usually tape them, and watch when I have the
time. When you watch your tapes on a TV, and when I watch a show or tape on TV
we are both engaging in pop culture.
>
>I note that Deborah spoke of her neighbor as referring to TVs
>and such as pop culture. Maybe you should be asking her.
>
Maybe. But she indicated that a microwave oven was a major concession to pop
culture, and that it could lead to a TV. Regardless of what it is called, I
just was curious about why she doesn't own one.
>Pop culture is what you wouldn't have in your house for fear
>that your friends would think that you're too common to associate
>with. It's part of ending your sentences with a preposition,
>buying disposable diapers, and listening to all-talk AM radio.
I think you are confusing pop culture with kitsch. Pop culture simply means
popular culture; it's everything that our culture is presently involved in,
from cell phones to television to glass fronted clothes washers, and everything
in-between. Kitsch refers to items that are considered vulgar or in bad taste.
In any event, most of my friends are pretty common to begin with, so I don't
have to worry about what they see in my house. They think my collection of
Franklin Mint plates commemorating the space shuttle launches are neat (they
think that is pop culture), but they don't like my Royal Doulton cups with the
hand painted periwinkles (they think that is kitsch). Go figure! After
admiring my Franklin plates, and we all sit down to watch something on TV, we
are engaging in a pop culture past-time.
It may be considered invasive technology, but isn't what we are doing (usenet
conversing) pop culture?
Les
Mark Brader
>>> I always wanted a washing machine with a glass view port in
>>> the front so I could watch the clothes sloshing around in the
>>> suds. Those store demo dishwashers with the glass fronted door
>>> also are fun to watch.
I certainly wish our dishwasher had a window in the door, not for
esthetic but for practical reasons. It's given us all kinds of problems
over the years, and several of these would have been much more readily
diagnosed if it was possible to see where the water is actually spraying.
Returning to (clothes) washing machines, Helge Moulding writes:
>> We used to own one of those in Germany. In fact, it was the only
>> kind I'd ever known until I got to the States. I have no idea
>> why the Germans have to be so peculiar. ...
The reason I've seen cited is that front loaders are more efficient in
terms of the energy and water consumed, and this is typically of greater
concern to Europeans, whereas Americans are more likely to be care about
the purchase cost of the machine.
And Les Albert writes:
> Not so peculiar. The first of the post WWII washing machines that
> appeared in the U.S were front loaders with view ports. Then it was
> found that top loading is desirable because you don't have to worry
> about door seals, door latches, etc.
And because you can add items while the washer is filling with water, or
even after it's started. I do the former routinely, and the latter often
enough that for me it's a significant reason to prefer top loading.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Tools, not solutions. :-)"
msbr...@interlog.com -- Henry Spencer
My text in this article is in the public domain.
AlanKngsly
>Zetan's Book of Enlightenment reveals that on 27 Aug 1999 00:39:40 GMT,
>Deborah wrote:
>What we need is a TV that will show only the Discovery Channel, The
>Learning Channel, Edu-TV (not sure of that one's title) and will show other
>channels only when Xena Warrior Princess is on.
You can do that with our TV setup: just go through a list on the DSS
(satellite) receiver and click which channels you want it to show. We plan on
having a TV in the kids' playroom that will only play educational channels, or
videos--we plan to provide them an assortment of educational stuff but NO
DISNEY.
Alan
AlanKngsly
>Having a TV in the house doesn't mean that you automatically become a clod
>who
>doesn't read. I also like to read, and I spend more time reading than
>watching
>TV. But there is a lot of good stuff available on TV if you like movies,
>drama, nature/science shows.
Definitely. I find people who refuse to have televisions annoying (sorry, Deb
and Helge).
>I think you are confusing pop culture with kitsch. Pop culture simply means
>popular culture; it's everything that our culture is presently involved in,
>from cell phones to television to glass fronted clothes washers, and
>everything
>in-between. Kitsch refers to items that are considered vulgar or in bad
>taste.
Hmmm....in my social circle, kitsch is considered cool...although it may be on
its way to becoming passe.
Alan
Perry Farmer
-> > Not so peculiar. The first of the post WWII washing machines that
-> > appeared in the U.S were front loaders with view ports. Then it was
-> > found that top loading is desirable because you don't have to worry
-> > about door seals, door latches, etc.
-> And because you can add items while the washer is filling with water, or
-> even after it's started. I do the former routinely, and the latter o
-> enough that for me it's a significant reason to prefer top loading.
-> --
-> Mark Brader, Toronto "Tools, not solutions. :-)"
You can do that now with some front loaders that have the basket tilted
back, both to save water (better tumbling action) and to give some of
the benefits of top loaders, one of which is that the new ones don't
leak at the door since the water level is below the seal.
Perry
Deborah
>>drama, nature/science shows.
>
>Definitely. I find people who refuse to have televisions annoying (sorry,
>Deb>and Helge).
Hey, no problem. We all make choices. You didn't buy a TV to annoy me, and I
didn't neglect to buy one in order to annoy you.
Deborah
(Travis Place) that offered a "front loader bra."
Lalbert1
(AlanKngsly) writes:
>>From: lalb...@aol.com (Lalbert1)
>>Having a TV in the house doesn't mean that you automatically become a clod
>>who
>>doesn't read. I also like to read, and I spend more time reading than
>>watching
>>TV. But there is a lot of good stuff available on TV if you like movies,
>>drama, nature/science shows.
>
>Definitely. I find people who refuse to have televisions annoying (sorry,
>Deb
>and Helge).
I don't find it annoying. I am just curious about why someone doesn't have one
(like wondering what the one-pants-leg-rolled-up people are all about). Also,
Helge didn't say he doesn't own a TV; he said he has one but finds it invasive.
>
>>I think you are confusing pop culture with kitsch. Pop culture simply means
>>popular culture; it's everything that our culture is presently involved in,
>>from cell phones to television to glass fronted clothes washers, and
>>everything
>>in-between. Kitsch refers to items that are considered vulgar or in bad
>>taste.
>
>Hmmm....in my social circle, kitsch is considered cool...although it may be
>on
>its way to becoming passe.
>
>
Kistch being cool does not diminish it being tasteless. Sometimes kitsch is
described as "cool", and sometimes kitsch is just ugly (I don't know what makes
something cool). In addition, kitsch has had its meaning changed by being
applied to things that are not necessarily tasteless, but only things from
another era. For instance, I have heard kitsch applied to old radios from the
thirties. The radios weren't tasteless or vulgar, they were just old tube
radios from another time. Go to any web site that discusses old toys, jewelry,
board games, etc. and you will see them described as kitsch.
Les
Lalbert1
sjf...@aol.com.net.org (Deborah) writes:
>I just have to mention that a while back, I came across a clothing catalog
>(Travis Place) that offered a "front loader bra."
>
>
Too provocative. Don't forget that one of the reasons some of us like front
loading washing machines is because we like to see the stuff inside sloshing
around.
Les
(not that there's anything wrong with that)
Mark Brader
> You can do that now with some front loaders that have the basket tilted
> back, both to save water (better tumbling action) and to give some of
> the benefits of top loaders, one of which is that the new ones don't
> leak at the door since the water level is below the seal.
Ah, interesting solution. In effect, *diagonal* loading!
--
Mark Brader "Inventions reached their limit long ago,
Toronto and I see no hope for further development."
msbr...@interlog.com -- Julius Frontinus, 1st century A.D.
Dana Carpender
Helge Moulding wrote:
> Deborah wrote in message <19990826174818...@ngol07.aol.com>...
> >This week's "Time" magazine has an article on violence among
> >Straight Edge teens in Salt Lake City.(1)
>
> Yah, I know. It sure surprised me to learn that I was taking
> my life in my hands by strolling out of Burger King munching
> a Bacon Whopper.
>
> But Danger is my middle name!
>
"No anchovies? You've got the wrong man. I spell my name 'Danger'."
Carl Fink
>
>Having a TV in the house doesn't mean that you automatically become a clod who
>doesn't read. I also like to read, and I spend more time reading than watching
>TV. But there is a lot of good stuff available on TV if you like movies,
>time. When you watch your tapes on a TV, and when I watch a show or tape on TV
>we are both engaging in pop culture.
I watch TV (or a tape) basically when I'm doing something that
prevents me from reading, for instance riding my stationary bike
(Yes, I know that it doesn't stop everyone. I personally can't
concentrate while pedaling.) or folding laundry or something.
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
"This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy."
-Martin Luther on Copernicus' theory that the Earth orbits the sun
Greg Goss
>And Les Albert writes:
>> Not so peculiar. The first of the post WWII washing machines that
>> appeared in the U.S were front loaders with view ports. Then it was
>> found that top loading is desirable because you don't have to worry
>> about door seals, door latches, etc.
>
>And because you can add items while the washer is filling with water, or
>even after it's started. I do the former routinely, and the latter often
>enough that for me it's a significant reason to prefer top loading.
It is also easier to bend forward and reach down than it is to bend
down and reach forward. I'd have to SIT I think to load or unload one
of those front-load machines familiar to us all from sylvester and
tweety.
StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>
>In article <19990828073029...@ngol05.aol.com>,
>sjf...@aol.com.net.org (Deborah) writes:
>
>>I just have to mention that a while back, I came across a clothing catalog
>>(Travis Place) that offered a "front loader bra."
>>
>>
>
>Too provocative. Don't forget that one of the reasons some of us like front
>loading washing machines is because we like to see the stuff inside sloshing
>around.
Your point being? <grin> Some of us like to see the stuff inside bras
'sloshing around' too...
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information,
and information on which artists do and do not want their
work posted!
http://home.icubed.net/starchsr/table.htm
Address munged for the inconvienence of spammers:
My address is starchsr <at> icubed dot net
Lalbert1
writes:
You may have the best reason against front-loaders; the new machines will
create another generation of people with bad backs (I recently read somewhere
the the little tykes schlepping those big back-packs to school are doing some
damage to their rapidly growing bones. If they grow up bent over then I guess
they will find the front-loaders easy to use. Everything evens out in
nature.).
Les
reversall
>This week's "Time" magazine has an article on violence among Straight Edge
>teens in Salt Lake City.(1)
>
>subculture, but it's hard to from an article in said publication.
>
>about this phenomenon. After all, we're Straight Dopesters, so there may be a
>some kind of kinship.
>
>1) I know this because my dentist subscribes to "Time," and I had an
>appointment with him this afternoon.
>
>Best regards from Deborah
Well, I'm a straightedger that reads the Straight Dope, so I guess I'm
qualified to answer. Basically, straightedge was started by the seminal 80's
DC hardcore punk band Minor Threat as a rebellion to the abusive lifestyle
prevelant in punk... more specifically the drinking, smoking, and sex out of
loving relationships. Ian Mackaye never meant to start a youth movement, but
the idea caught on and exploded.
"Don't drink,
Don't smoke,
Don't f*ck,
At least I can f*ing think!"
Minor Threat - Out Of Step
That pretty much sums it up. It's a commitment to stay pure from the poisons
of this world. "Xing up" (the putting of black X's on your hands) started off
as a way for the people in Minor Threat (who were underage at the time) to get
into over 18/ over 21 punk rock shows. It pretty much caught on from there,
and is now the universal symbol of "sXe" ... at straight edge shows lots of
straight edgers still X up to show they're drug free.
Anything else you hear is purely fringe. True, vegetarianism and veganism is
fairly prevalent, and many consider it to be a natural extention of
straightedge philosophy, but it is not and has never been a core requirement.
As for violence, I guarantee you 99% of straightedgers are against it, but
there have been militant bands/groups/"crews" that have supported such
"hardline justice." They are, however, very very much in the minority and it's
despised by the majority of straightedgers. It started off completely
non-violently and out of all the straightedgers I know in real life every
single one of them is against intolerance like that. Heck, a lot of my friends
drink and I don't do crap to them, they just know I won't.
You could also check out things like the alt.punk.straight-edge faq to hear
views on it. Although if you asked the newsgroup about violence, one or two
people would probably reply "I like to carve X's into people's heads because I
hear it's the trendy sXe thing to do now" or other replies intended to be
humorous amongst the honest replies.
It really saddens me to see a positive youth movement portrayed as something
it's not by journalists too lazy to actually research it themselves, but I
guess that is nothing new. Why bother when you can use a few freak instances
of violence to characterize an entire group?
There was a balanced article on straightedgers (from both sides of the story)
in the Boulder Weekly Paper not too long ago I could post if anyone's
interested. I haven't read the Time article yet, but it sounds like
unadulterated crap, so it might help to clear it up a little.
Peter
Bear
>
> Perry Farmer writes:
> > You can do that now with some front loaders that have the basket tilted
> > back, both to save water (better tumbling action) and to give some of
> > the benefits of top loaders, one of which is that the new ones don't
> > leak at the door since the water level is below the seal.
>
> Ah, interesting solution. In effect, *diagonal* loading!
Let's build them like cement mixers. They start off pointing upward, so
you can throw your laundry in the top. When it's done, you rotate them
foraward and downward as far as it takes to dump it all out on the cat.
--
Bear
Mark Brader
> poisons of this world. "Xing up" (the putting of black X's on your hands)
> started off as a way for the people in Minor Threat (who were underage at
Um, how does putting black X's on one's hands help one to bypass age limits?
> It pretty much caught on from there, and is now the universal symbol of
> "sXe" ...
And is "sXe" pronounced "straight edge", or what? My first inclination on
seeing it would be to say "sexy", but that doesn't seem to fit the context...
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...This is due to the Coincidence effect,
msbr...@interlog.com | more so than the Coriolis." -- Cindy Kandolf
Pontius Pilate
soph...@fzbzet.zet (Sophelyn) wrote:
>On 28 Aug 1999 09:13:46 GMT, alank...@aol.com
>
>> You can do that with our TV setup: just go through a list
on the DSS >> (satellite) receiver and click which channels
you want it to show. We plan on >> having a TV in the kids'
playroom that will only play educational channels, or >>
videos--we plan to provide them an assortment of educational
stuff but NO >> DISNEY.
>
them >appreciate their pets? No "Mary Poppins" to teach
them how to jump >into sidewalk art and sing away the
dreariness of housework? And >every child needs to live
through the terror of the Banshee in "Darby >O'Gill and the
Little People" at least once.
>
>Soph (who only watches it for the Sean Connery now)
I think the idea is similar to the one my wife and I have
regarding Disney.
No films that try to give little girls the impression that
their fathers are usually wrong and don't have to be obeyed,
even when a decision is explained to the youngster (Mulan,
Pocahontas)
No films that give the impression that paid child care is
far superior to spending time with Mom and Dad (Mary
Poppins).
No films that try to complete social engineering on a grand,
almost subliminal scale, like the idea that eating meat is
wrong (The Lion King), excessive environmentalism
(Pocahontas), or the idea that other cultures/religions are
primarily a source for crude jokes and ridicule (For Richer
or Poorer).
No supporting a company that uses the tactics of an 800
pound gorilla to force smaller animation studios out of
business, like the sudden release of Snow White to coincide
with the release of a Snow White movie from another studio.
No supporting a company that won't warn or refund the money
of families who unwittingly show up for a family vacation on
Gay Pride Day at Disneyland. If they want to promote it,
fine, but at least give me the chance to get my money back.
No films where the ads for McDonalds and Burger King toys
are out a full five months before the movie - if my kid
wants a burger, I've got a gas grill and a freezer full of
lean ground beef. At least I know nobody is going to spit
on the bun for my daughter. My mother works for the health
department, and we don't go to Burger King or McDonalds.
Ever.
No supporting a film studio that breaks into three parts in
an effort to look like they are family entertainment on one
side and adult entertainment on the other. At least have
the cajones to be consistent with your Disney, Hollywood,
and Miramax studios.
Yes, I'm probably paranoid, but I put myself through school
working as a behavioral therapist for pedophiles. If that
doesn't make you paranoid, I don't know what will. My
daughter is nine months old, but she's already learned that
The Sound of Music, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers,
Oklahoma, and South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut are
really good musicals. Disney wouldn't be such an issue if
they weren't so damn sneaky about the social engineering
aspects of their films. Other films/activities make it a
lot easier to show the consequences of poor choices and
flawed thinking.
--
Pontius Pilate
Governor of Judea
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>
>In article <37d7659b...@169.132.11.13>, StarC...@look.in.my.sig
>(StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>) writes:
>
>>>In article <19990828073029...@ngol05.aol.com>,
>>>sjf...@aol.com.net.org (Deborah) writes:
>>>
>>>>I just have to mention that a while back, I came across a clothing catalog
>>>>(Travis Place) that offered a "front loader bra."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Too provocative. Don't forget that one of the reasons some of us like front
>>>loading washing machines is because we like to see the stuff inside sloshing
>>>around.
>>
>>Your point being? <grin> Some of us like to see the stuff inside bras
>>'sloshing around' too...
>
>I was afraid that I had bobbled it, but you caught my [thread] drift.
<laughs> StarChaser, the velcro to your drifting threads...
Lalbert1
(StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>) writes:
>>In article <19990828073029...@ngol05.aol.com>,
>>sjf...@aol.com.net.org (Deborah) writes:
>>
>>>I just have to mention that a while back, I came across a clothing catalog
>>>(Travis Place) that offered a "front loader bra."
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Too provocative. Don't forget that one of the reasons some of us like front
>>loading washing machines is because we like to see the stuff inside sloshing
>>around.
>
>Your point being? <grin> Some of us like to see the stuff inside bras
>'sloshing around' too...
I was afraid that I had bobbled it, but you caught my [thread] drift.
Les
StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>
<merkin4...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>No supporting a company that won't warn or refund the money
>of families who unwittingly show up for a family vacation on
>Gay Pride Day at Disneyland. If they want to promote it,
>fine, but at least give me the chance to get my money back.
Minor note: Disney -doesn't- promote or support Gay Pride Day. It's
something that the gays and lesbians decided to do on their own. The
only complicity Disney has is in not turning them away, which I feel
is perfectly acceptable.
David Zeiger
>
>Um, how does putting black X's on one's hands help one to bypass age limits?
Many places use some sort of stamp or mark on your hand to show that
you've already been carded, or already paid the cover charge, or
whatever. I'm not a big club-goer, but the ones I've seen nowadays
use an actual rubber stamp with some random word or picture, probably
changed on a daily basis, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were
mostly using a magic marker to make a black X 15 years ago.
Essentially, you're trying to fool one of the bouncers/doormen into
thinking that you've already been in before, were carded, passed, then
left, and now you're coming back in.
--
David Zeiger dze...@the-institute.net
Whenever I find myself in a difficult situation, I ask myself "What
Would Jesus Do?" The mental image of my opposition being cast into
pits of hellfire for all eternity *is* comforting, but probably not
what the inventors of the phrase had in mind.
Alan Hamilton
>I always wanted a washing machine with a glass view port in the front so I
>could watch the clothes sloshing around in the suds. Those store demo
>dishwashers with the glass fronted door also are fun to watch.
Me too, and I just got one today at Sears (albeit not delivered until
Monday). It's a Kenmore, and Consumer Reports ranked it #1. Maytag
made a big goof with their front-loader Neptune washer -- no window!
There have been a few top-loaders with windows. My mother had a
Frigidaire with the up-and-down agitator, and that had a window in the
top lid.
As for the "bend-over" problem, I've yet to see a top-loader dryer.
Also, the set I'm getting can be stacked so the dryer is at eye-level.
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com
rob...@bestweb.net
>No supporting a company that uses the tactics of an 800
>pound gorilla to force smaller animation studios out of
>business, like the sudden release of Snow White to coincide
>with the release of a Snow White movie from another studio.
Meaning the Fleischer "Snow White"? Or someone else's?
Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered
rob...@bestweb.net
>But they have other advantages: they use less water, and seem to
>clean better. You have to use low-sudsing detergent, though, or the
>best door seals in the world aren't going to save your floor.
>---------------
Why? What happens, and how? I've seen no such trouble with Wascomats, even
when I've used hand dish detergent, which is as high foaming as laundry
detergents were decades ago. The chamber foams up, but the seal holds.
Robert
BobKinDC
> >No supporting a company that uses the tactics of an 800
> >pound gorilla to force smaller animation studios out of
> >business, like the sudden release of Snow White to coincide
> >with the release of a Snow White movie from another studio.
>
>Meaning the Fleischer "Snow White"? Or someone else's?
IIRC, there was a version of "Snow White" released around 1990 called "Happily
Ever After.". Later in her life, Snow White needs the help of the dwarves'
wives (played by Sally Kellerman, Phyllis Diller, Tracey Ullman, et al) to get
her husband the Prince back. Disney decided to re-release its classic "Snow
White" to coincide with "Happily"'s opening.
-----------------------------------
--Bob Kennedy
Alexandria, VA
http://hometown.aol.com/bobkindc/club/index.htm
Mark Brader
> But they have other advantages: they use less water, and seem to clean
Now that remark reads nicely with the subject line!
--
Mark Brader | "I wasn't the one who misplaced the entire
Toronto | Deltivid asteroid belt!"
msbr...@interlog.com | "Deja Q", ST:TNG, Richard Danus
mlo...@lobo.civetsystems.com
> Zetan's Book of Enlightenment reveals that on Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:31:31
> -0700, Bear wrote:
>
> >Let's build them like cement mixers. They start off pointing upward, so
> >you can throw your laundry in the top. When it's done, you rotate them
> >foraward and downward as far as it takes to dump it all out on the cat.
>
> I believe that should read, "FOR the cat."
I believe that should read, "dump out the cat".
M.
Carl Fink
>This week's "Time" magazine has an article on violence among Straight Edge
>teens in Salt Lake City.(1)
Today's NEWSDAY has an article on Long Island's Straightedge movement, which
seems more balanced. <http://www.newsday.com/lilife/lcov0829.htm>
AlanKngsly
>>
>>> You can do that with our TV setup: just go through a list
>on the DSS >> (satellite) receiver and click which channels
>you want it to show. We plan on >> having a TV in the kids'
>playroom that will only play educational channels, or >>
>videos--we plan to provide them an assortment of educational
>stuff but NO >> DISNEY.
>From: Pontius Pilate
>I think the idea is similar to the one my wife and I have
>regarding Disney.
>
>No films that try to give little girls the impression that
>their fathers are usually wrong and don't have to be obeyed,
>even when a decision is explained to the youngster (Mulan,
>Pocahontas)
>
>No films that give the impression that paid child care is
>far superior to spending time with Mom and Dad (Mary
>Poppins).
>
>No films that try to complete social engineering on a grand,
>almost subliminal scale, like the idea that eating meat is
>wrong (The Lion King), excessive environmentalism
>(Pocahontas), or the idea that other cultures/religions are
>primarily a source for crude jokes and ridicule (For Richer
>or Poorer).
>
>No supporting a company that uses the tactics of an 800
>pound gorilla to force smaller animation studios out of
>business, like the sudden release of Snow White to coincide
>with the release of a Snow White movie from another studio.
>
>No supporting a company that won't warn or refund the money
>of families who unwittingly show up for a family vacation on
>Gay Pride Day at Disneyland. If they want to promote it,
>fine, but at least give me the chance to get my money back.
Okay, I'm going to jump in here. I must point out that the idea my wife and I
have about Disney is NOT really similar to the one you and yours have, at least
in certain significant cases. If Disney were having Gay Pride Day, that would
be the day we'd be MOST likely to take our child there.
I do agree with you about the way Disney uses their muscle on the other
studios. Basically, we just don't want our children to watch anything that has
a bunch of commercialism behind it. So, when possible, we would like to avoid
stuff with a lot of product tie-ins. It's going to be a tough call with Sesame
Street, though. I learned to read (at the tender age of two!) from that show,
and it is awfully entertaining and educational. Maybe we'll just edit out the
parts that feature toy characters.
Alan
AlanKngsly
>Soph
Did anyone see the movie The Last Days of Disco? There's a hilarious
discussion in there about how it was a terrible idea for Lady to hook up with
Tramp. How he was going to end up sitting around the house getting drunk and
beating Lady up, stuff like that.
Alan
Bear
> Okay, I'm going to jump in here. I must point out that the idea my wife and I
> have about Disney is NOT really similar to the one you and yours have, at least
> in certain significant cases. If Disney were having Gay Pride Day, that would
> be the day we'd be MOST likely to take our child there.
Your child's gay? How old's your child?
Pick it up on its own, or learn it at home?
Not that having Gay Pride in your child is a bad thing.
--
Bear
rob...@bestweb.net
>>This week's "Time" magazine has an article on violence among
>>Straight Edge teens in Salt Lake City.
>Today's NEWSDAY has an article on Long Island's Straightedge
>movement, which seems more balanced.
You sure that comma is intended?
Helge Moulding
>AlanKngsly wrote:
>> If Disney were having Gay Pride Day, that would
>> be the day we'd be MOST likely to take our child there.
>Your child's gay? How old's your child?
Clearly old enough.
On a more serious note, I'm applauding Alan and all other
parents like him who work to teach their children tolerance.
Luckily, many cities have their own gay pride parades, and
you don't have to go to Disneyland (which doesn't have one,
anyway) to see it. In Salt Lake City this year's Gay Pride
parade was lead by one of the mayoral hopefuls, a front-
runner, even. It makes SLC politics a lot more interesting
than the usual graft and influence peddling that goes on.
--
Helge "We got plenty of graft, anyway." Moulding
mailto:hmou...@excite.com Just another guy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1401 with a weird name
Carl Fink
>
> . . . It's going to be a tough call with Sesame
>Street, though. I learned to read (at the tender age of two!) from that show,
>and it is awfully entertaining and educational. Maybe we'll just edit out the
>parts that feature toy characters.
You are aware that the style of SESAME STREET (extremely short scenes,
jumpy cuts) is by some people blamed for the "MTV Effect", the
incredibly short attention span of the generations after my own?
Carl Fink
>On 1999-08-29 ca...@dm.net said:
>
> >Today's NEWSDAY has an article on Long Island's Straightedge
> >movement, which seems more balanced.
>
>You sure that comma is intended?
>Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered
Yes. The clause beginning with "which" is an adjectival clause
modifying "article", of course.
Randy Poe
> You are aware that the style of SESAME STREET (extremely short scenes,
> jumpy cuts) is by some people blamed for the "MTV Effect", the
> incredibly short attention span of the generations after my own?
Yep. I'm old enough to remember the first Sesame
Street (1969). Educators were gushing about how since
kids were noted to be fascinated with TV commercials,
and had an attention span therefore trained to be
30-60 seconds, SS would take advantage of this
by teaching in 30-60 second blocks. Remember how
every episode was "brought to you by the letter
Q and the number 5?"
- Randy
rob...@bestweb.net
>On a more serious note, I'm applauding Alan and all other
>parents like him who work to teach their children tolerance.
>Luckily, many cities have their own gay pride parades, and
>you don't have to go to Disneyland (which doesn't have one,
>anyway) to see it.
The question is, what is "tolerance"? And is that what gay pride parades
are really about?
Robert in the Bronx
Lalbert1
Yes, I also learqed to rea5 from Qeqame Str55t. I hav5 had a verq diqqicult
time in th5 worq plac5. It is aqq the faul5 of the Qount, and thaq big yeqqow
bir5.
Qes
Dutch Courage
>On 1999-08-30 hmou...@excite.com said:
>
> >On a more serious note, I'm applauding Alan and all other
> >parents like him who work to teach their children tolerance.
> >Luckily, many cities have their own gay pride parades, and
> >you don't have to go to Disneyland (which doesn't have one,
> >anyway) to see it.
>
>The question is, what is "tolerance"?
"sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting
with one's own"
And is that what gay pride parades
>are really about?
Yes. Don't be an asshole.
"There is no land beyond the law, where tyrants rule with unshakable power.
It is but a dream from which the evil wake to face their fate, their
terrifying hour."
-Wesley Dodds.
rob...@bestweb.net
>> >Today's NEWSDAY has an article on Long Island's Straightedge
>> >movement, which seems more balanced.
>>You sure that comma is intended?
>Yes. The clause beginning with "which" is an adjectival clause
>modifying "article", of course.
In THAT case, the meaning would be clearer without the comma. The comma
makes the adjectival CLAUSE seem to apply to "Long Is's Straightedge
movement". Of course, a better way to clarify would be to put that clause
closer to the referent.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> On a more serious note, I'm applauding Alan and all other
> parents like him who work to teach their children tolerance.
Ah, but does being taken to the circus teach one tolerance to elephants?
Or does the little day-to-day practice of refering to elephants in a
nagatve way and a bad attitude about elephants destroy all that one may
wish to accomplish by going to such a specatcle.
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
Dana Carpender
ra...@westnet.poe.com wrote:
> Helge Moulding <hmou...@excite.com> wrote:
> > On a more serious note, I'm applauding Alan and all other
> > parents like him who work to teach their children tolerance.
>
> Ah, but does being taken to the circus teach one tolerance to elephants?
> Or does the little day-to-day practice of refering to elephants in a
> nagatve way and a bad attitude about elephants destroy all that one may
> wish to accomplish by going to such a specatcle.
Let us remember that elephants are generally not in the circus of their own
free will and accord, and don't get to decide what they'll do there...
But yes, day to day subtle slurs strike me as the heart of bigotry.
Dana W. Carpender
Author, _How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet and Lost Forty Pounds!_
Hold the Toast Press
http://www.holdthetoast.com
reversall
>> That pretty much sums it up. It's a commitment to stay pure from the
>> poisons of this world. "Xing up" (the putting of black X's on your hands)
>> started off as a way for the people in Minor Threat (who were underage at
>> the time) to get into over 18/ over 21 punk rock shows. ...
>
>Um, how does putting black X's on one's hands help one to bypass age limits?
>
>> "sXe" ...
>
>And is "sXe" pronounced "straight edge", or what? My first inclination on
>seeing it would be to say "sexy", but that doesn't seem to fit the context...
I should've been more clear... I'll answer it with a quote from a book called
"All Ages - Reflections On Straight Edge" which I got at a punk store a while
back, but was surprised to find in a Virgin Megastore a few weeks ago also. If
you see it, read the section written by Ian Mackaye (frontmen of Minor Threat,
pretty much started straight edge) because it's a very interesting look at how
it started off. The band that later became Minor Threat was the Teen Idles
at this time. This quote comes from him:
"We were in San Francisco and we played a place called Mabuhay Gardens. They
asked if we were going to drink and we said, "no," and they put an "X" on our
hands. So we came back to Washington DC and went to this nightclub, the 9:30,
and said, "Hey look, we're not going to drink and we will put this X on our
hand. If you see us drinking, you can throw us out forever. We are not going
to drink, we just came here to see the music."
That pretty much sums up how it started off. Then they put X'ed up hands on
the cover on the front of their Teen Idles record to signify kids - young punk
rockers but they continued to wear it at shows when they became Minor Threat
and it caught on from there.
"sXe" does mean Straight-edge, it's just an abbreviation that's become
popular. You're not the first person to mistake it for sexy though, I've got a
friend who's had some interesting people instant message him because he
describes himself as "sXe" in his profile. "How sexy are you, baby?"
By the way, I just found that Boulder Weekly article on my hard drive, so I'll
go ahead and post it here. It's all about the infamous Salt Lake City
straightedge kids who give the rest of us a bad name. I don't agree with
everything said, but it's a lot more balanced than what I've heard of the Time
article...
-----------
Tattoos, vegans and firebombs
Straight edges don't drink, do drugs or smoke. They do fight.
by Ryan Thompson
After the Clear show, we were driving back to the house and Kevin showed me
the spot where a murder took place. A young straight edge kid had stabbed and
killed a gang member after he reportedly pulled out a gun. No one I knew in
Salt Lake City knew who the killer was. "He was just trying to act tough in
front of all his friends," Kevin said. The kid is doing life.
Since we were on the topic of crime scenes, I asked Kevin where "his
McDonald's" was. In 1996, Kevin, along with three of his friends, firebombed a
McDonald's restaurant. He was convicted of arson and served nine months in
prison.
They destroyed the place on behalf of animal rights.
"We spoke out for them," one of Kevin's friends told CBS News.
Kevin, 21, is hardline. This means they take the ideals of straight edge and
veganism to a greater extreme. Hardliners often participate in animal
liberation and direct action, meaning they act on their beliefs, regardless of
the law.
Hardline directly stems from the straight edge movement that began in the
early '80s within the punk rock and hardcore music scenes in New York.
Straight edges don't drink, don't smoke, and don't use drugs.
According to Salt Lake City authorities, hardliners and straight edges are
responsible for a high number of assaults, stabbings, and beatings in the
metro area, as well as more than 30 bombings in Utah, which have cost the
state $2.5 million since 1996.
In Boulder, however, police say they have had no problems with straight edges.
"I've heard of these straight edgers, and I've talked to them, but there isn't
any real gang activity with them," Officer Bill Palmer says. "At least not in
Boulder."
Kevin is classified as an urban terrorist and must follow numerous guidelines
in order to comply with his parole and probation over the next four years. He
cannot be around any firearms; he cannot carry a lighter; he cannot wear
certain clothing; and he cannot associate with any of his friends who were
involved in the crime. He can no longer even refer to himself as hardline or
straight edge, because the Salt Lake City police consider the groups to be
gangs. If Kevin violates any of this, he could be sent back to prison for 15
years.
So now Kevin hangs out with a new group of friends.
When Jason and I first arrived at his house in Salt Lake City, only his
roommate Matt was there. Matt, 23, originally from New Jersey, is straight
edge but not vegan. "I can't live without my Wendy's hamburgers," he
confessed. However, Matt is extremely against drugs, and is currently working
for the DEA.
"When I'm older, I want to have fun," he said.
"I want to be kicking down drug dealers' doors."
Matt drives a green Honda Civic with a license plate cover that reads "801
L.O.D." 801 is the Salt Lake City area code. L.O.D. stands for Legion of Doom,
their straight edge crew. Together with the straight edges from Boulder (area
code 303), they add up to the 1104 Mob, a crew that spans both cities. Later
that night, a new member was "beat in," roughed up in a friendly way for his
initiation into the crew.
While straight edge and hardcore crews are always based around the hardcore
and punk music scenes, rarely are crews exclusively straight edge. DMS, the
U.S. Thugs, and the Alleyway Crew, all from New York City, are a few of the
bigger crews. They include popular bands Rancid, Sick of It All, and H2O. In
Syracuse is the DNA crew.
Last December my girlfriend, two of my friends, and I drove up from Buffalo to
Syracuse to see Earth Crisis play in their hometown. Before the show, we
stopped at Halo Tattoo, where a few DNA members work. My friend Chris knew
most of them. One of the guys was called Cannibal Jim, who ate the punched-out
cores from his ears after getting them stretched. He's a vegan but it didn't
seem to bother him. The other guy, Crazy Sean, was wearing a "Kill Your Local
Drug Dealer" t-shirt.
DJ, the owner of the tattoo shop, was dressed pretty sharply. He had on a pair
of blue jeans, with a tucked-in shirt and a vest. He wore glasses, and his
hair was combed nicely. I never would've guessed that he was one of the
singers for the radical, hardcore band, Path of Resistance.
Also in the city are the Syracuse Sluggers, a crew affiliated with DNA. One of
the Sluggers routinely wore sparring gloves to shows so he could punch and
kick without injury. I remember when I first met him in Buffalo at the Warped
Tour. He was getting into fights with everyone. But I had no problem when he
and his Slugger friends beat the shit out of a bunch of neo-Nazis. Today,
rumor has it that he has been banned from every concert venue in the Syracuse
area.
Violence is and always has been a part of hardcore and punk shows. But the
majority of the time everyone gets along and no one gets hurt. The seemingly
violent dancing and kicking is a way for everyone to release that "pissed off"
energy and have fun at the same time. It's usually outsiders trying to
interfere that starts the real violence, as was the case at the Earth Crisis
show in Syracuse last winter.
The crowd was dancing, the floor was shaking, and Earth Crisis was screaming.
But the security staff was getting a little too rough with some of the kids.
"Remember, bouncers, this isn't a Korn show, straight edge kids fight back. "
Karl, the singer for Earth Crisis warned.
The bouncers didn't listen, until DJ dragged one of them into the crowd, where
he was stomped on by a bunch of angry hardcore kids.
This happened to two other security staffers until finally there was only one
bouncer left on stage. He begged the crowd to back off. But it was out of his
hands and he watched the crowd swarm the stage while his buddies were carried
off to safety. It turned into one giant sing-along with Earth Crisis, the
crowd screaming the lyrics "I am straight edge, I am STRAIGHT EDGE."
One of the crews that expanded to the Denver/Boulder area is Courage Crew,
originally from Dayton, Ohio. Members often wear t-shirts they design
themselves, sporting slogans like "Drink Up, Shoot In, Let the Beatings
Begin," and "Nobody Moves, Nobody Gets Hurt." Most of the people I know,
straight edge or not, don't think too kindly of the Courage Crew kids out here
because of their hardass attitude.
Another crew out West is the Vegan Death Squad, which Kevin used to be a part
of. After being kicked out of his house at the age of 15, Kevin moved around,
staying with friends in San Diego, Seattle, Park City, and Oregon. "At one
place, we all had to sleep with guns by our beds, because the kid who lived
there was afraid of the cops raiding," he said.
While guns have never been an integral part of the straight edge scene, Kevin
and his friends used to have a small arsenal. Their guns were basically just
for fun, but part of their reasoning for having them-similar to the thinking
of many Coloradans in these days before Y2K-was for personal protection in
case the government collapsed.
In Salt Lake City the morning after the show, I woke up with a loaded gun next
to me. "Where the hell did that come from?" I asked. Sean, who is Kevin's
roommate and the bassist for Clear, said that it was Matt's. He said that no
one really minds that he has a gun, especially since he has a permit to carry
it, but they don't like the fact that he takes it to shows. I noticed a Clear
concert poster on the wall. It read, "Leave Your Nines At Home."
Contrary to what many people think, Salt Lake City straight edges are not
pro-violence. These are not intolerant kids who like to see people get hurt.
Let's just say they're more open to violence as a means to stand up for what
they believe in.
Violence did occur at a show in Salt Lake City several days before our
arrival. But it had nothing to do with anger or hostility; it was simply a
bet.
A tattoo artist in Salt Lake City allegedly offered six hours of free
tattooing to anyone that would knock out Vanilla Ice at his concert. One
straight edge got on stage, pretended to be dancing, turned around and punched
the rapper in the face, knocking him into the drum set.
The kid has already started getting his tattoos.
Nothing that could be used as a weapon was allowed into the show we attended.
I had to hide a pen in the waistband of my pants.
Jason and I were two hours early, and we still hadn't seen any of our friends.
Maiz and Warren, two straight edge vegans from the East Coast, had made the
trip up from Boulder the day before. It was an hour before they showed up at
Club DV8.
The four of us came here to see our friends Clear play. A hardcore band from
Salt Lake City, Clear once referred to themselves as a straight edge band, but
since then they decided to put their music above any tag. For example, they
replaced their guitarist with a non-straight edge with more talent.
While their lyrics seem angry and distraught, their personalities could never
be more different. These five kids are some of the friendliest people I've
ever met.
When it was time for them to play, the crowd had already packed in tightly up
front, and I was forced to climb the speakers to get some photos. Clear played
hard, and the crowd danced even harder. A few times I thought the tower of
speakers was going to fall and bury me beneath.
"This is chaos," Warren shouted to me with a grin.
And that it was. Unfortunately, an hour and a half into the show, I was too
tired to keep up, and I decided to lay on a couch. Occasionally one or two
bodies would come flying out at me.
Jason, who, ironically, works nights as a bartender, was just as tired as I
was. We drove for over seven hours that day, and the next day we had to do it
all over again.
Neither of us had ever been here before, and we both agreed that the city gave
off some sort of eerie feel. Maybe it had to do with our preconceived notions
of what Salt Lake City was supposed to be, but it felt evil.
The people we met didn't fit our stereotypes of what we thought Salt Lake City
straight edge was like either. They weren't intolerant rebels or violent
punks. They were normal kids no different from you or me. They just happened
to be straight edge.
Maxim magazine said that "edgers (in Salt Lake City) have been known to use
chains and clubs to beat the shit out of smokers, drinkers, and recreational
drug users, then carve an X in their victims' flesh."
But that isn't just an overstatement, it's bullshit.
For the sake of argument, I purposely smoked numerous cigarettes at the show.
No one attacked me, and no one threatened me. In fact, no one even gave me a
second look.
I don't like to smoke around straight edges simply because I don't think it's
right that they have to breathe in my smoke. But on the ride from Boulder, I
couldn't help myself. I felt even worse smoking around Jason because he
confessed that it made him want a cigarette too.
Unlike some straight edges, Jason wasn't always so "pure." He smoked and he
drank, and he experimented with a variety of drugs. Some straight edges swear
off caffeine just as they do alcohol, but not Jason. Since turning straight
edge, he has literally become addicted to soda. On the ride home, he consumed
approximately 15 cans of pop. Earlier in the morning, I woke up to him
chanting, "Pepsi, Pepsi, Pepsi."
We were anxious to get home Sunday, and we drove fast, apparently too fast for
some cop with a quota. I looked forward to sitting on my couch, and relaxing
with a beer. Jason felt the same way about his non-alcoholic brew. "A lot of
straight edge kids don't understand why I think the taste of beer is so
relaxing," he says. Jason could understand why I was so excited the night
before at the pizza parlor, when I found out that they served beer. I was
tired and stressed, and I needed a drink. After the show everyone met up at
The Pie. Almost the entire clientele was straight edge. Only a few of us were
eating actual pizza though. Everyone else was eating some sort of baked bread.
I was the only one drinking a beer. A few kids looked over at me curiously,
but certainly no one cared. But that wasn't always the case. A year ago, a
bunch of fraternity brothers, who were leaving The Pie, asked some straight
edges for a light. For some reason, an argument ensued and a fight broke out.
The frat boys were severely beaten. One straight edge actually pulled out a
"samurai sword", although he didn't use it.
We were talking about stuff like that while we drove back to Boulder. Jason
was shooting bottle rockets out the window and down the interstate. We were
curious to see how a bottle rocket, already traveling at 100 mph, would react
when shot out the window. Could we catch up to it? It was research in the name
of science.
Coming up was a McDonald's, and I asked Jason if he would even eat at
McDonald's. He said no. "But I really don't make that much sense because I eat
from Taco Bell and other places that are just as bad." While McDonald's food
might smell good, anyone that knows anything about
the fast food industry knows that McDonald's is responsible for vast amounts
of environmental destruction and animal deaths. Maiz, who is extremely against
any act of violence, doesn't completely agree with Kevin's decision to bomb
McDonald's but says that she understands. "It wasn't directed at any humans or
animals," she said. "It economically hurt a corporation that deserves to be
hurt."
No one besides Kevin and his friends were there the night of the firebombing,
and no one was hurt. Kevin said at 2 a.m. they drove behind the restaurant.
One of them spray painted "Billions Served, Billions Killed" on a building in
the back. They broke in through the drive-thru window and unlocked the door.
"It took about 30 seconds" to dump 15 gallons of gasoline throughout the
restaurant. Two of them waited in the car, while Kevin held the back door
open. Kevin's other friend "threw in a Molotov cocktail and the place blew up.
The windows imploded and " flames shot out 20 feet."
The four friends left the scene and they all went home and laughed.
Two months later came the first signs of trouble. Kevin was living in Seattle
at the time, and the ATF paid him a visit. "They knew what I did and said that
I should go back to Salt Lake City," Kevin explained. During the Christmas
holidays, he returned home where he was questioned by the Salt Lake City
police. "They promised me that they just wanted to talk." But Kevin's three
friends had already confessed, and he was forced to sign a confession too.
As part of a joke, I gave Kevin a toy Salt Lake City police car as a gift. I
told him that he could shoot it, or perform voodoo on it if he wanted to. It
must have been old, because the new Salt Lake City police cars have a new
design with the Mormon temple painted on the side. "So much for separation of
church and state," Matt said.
Jason and I both thought that the temple looked like something from Las Vegas.
It's hard to get lost in Salt Lake City, because all of the main streets are
named in alphabetical and numerical sequence according to their location from
the temple. Even when you first enter Utah, there's a billboard advertising
the temple.
What surprised us more was a billboard right before that. It was a picture of
a group of men standing together with the words, "Real Men Don't Use Porn."
"We got to get a picture of that," Jason said.
A lot of straight edges I know are into pornography, partly due to the fact
that many choose not to partake in promiscuous sex. Some believe in
abstinence. For others, however, sex isn't even an issue. In general, there
aren't too many straight edge sluts or players. The night before, it was about
2 a.m. when we got back. Jason passed out on top of his backpack and I was
dead tired. But Matt and his roommates decided to watch a Latino porno. The
orgasmic noises were too much for me. I went outside, smoked cigarettes and
watched snails crawl across the porch. I never realized how slow they move.
Really slow. After a while, the flick ended and I got to sleep.
At the show, while I was waiting for Fall Silent, the headlining band, to set
up, I left the club to call my girlfriend back in Boulder. She told me that
two of her old friends from our hometown of Buffalo, New York, had recently
vacationed to Orlando, Florida, where they met the band members of N'Sync and
had sex with them.
After hearing this news, I was overwhelmed with disgust. Although I'm neither
straight edge nor vegan, I felt proud to be here in Salt Lake City at a
hardcore show surrounded by kids who care, kids who have morals and values and
are willing to stand up for what they believe. While the rest of our society
is consumed with drugs, money, and sex, these kids remain uncorrupted and
devoted to a cause.
Jason bought the new Fall Silent CD at the show, and now he was playing it on
my car stereo. Occasionally, the music would be interrupted by the whistling
of a bottle rocket.
Fall Silent was once a straight edge band but now they consider themselves to
be a "sober" band only. Some say that Fall Silent actually condemns the
straight edge scene today. That is obviously an overstatement. Two days after
we returned from Salt Lake City, I stopped over at Warren's house in Boulder
and Fall Silent was there. Warren lives with three other straight edges;
Jason, Maiz, and Robert. Fall Silent played a show earlier that day,
ironically at a Boulder fraternity house, and the band was spending the night
at Warren's.
While the Denver/Boulder hardcore scene is quite limited, it is gaining
momentum. On July 17, hardcore bands Brother's Keeper, Disembodied,
Shogun and Clear will play in Denver at a youth center called The Spot. This
will be one of the biggest hardcore shows in years.
While there might be a lot of straight edge kids there, there will also be a
lot of drunks and druggies too. And I challenge anyone to try to pick out
who's who.
Mike Ski, the singer for Brothers Keeper and straight edge member of DNA, once
said: "We all fucking do it, judge everybody by the way they look or the scene
they're involved in. But we all need to stop and get to know people for who
they are on the inside."
-----
peter
Jake Schmidt
news:7q96dv$q...@shell1.interlog.com...
> Perry Farmer writes:
> > You can do that now with some front loaders that have the basket tilted
> > back, both to save water (better tumbling action) and to give some of
> > the benefits of top loaders, one of which is that the new ones don't
> > leak at the door since the water level is below the seal.
>
> Ah, interesting solution. In effect, *diagonal* loading!
There actually was a diagonal loading washer on the market a while back--I
think it was a LONG while back, but one existed nevertheless.
> --
> Mark Brader "Inventions reached their limit long ago,
> Toronto and I see no hope for further development."
> msbr...@interlog.com -- Julius Frontinus, 1st century A.D.
>
> My text in this article is in the public domain.
Jake
reversall
>On 26 Aug 1999 21:48:18 GMT Deborah <sjf...@aol.com.net.org> wrote:
>
>Today's NEWSDAY has an article on Long Island's Straightedge movement, which
Really good article... sums up what straight edge is. There's always people
who give things a bad name, but what that articles describes is a lot like
it's here too.
Get together, have fun, make a change.
peter
Mark Brader
>> seeing it would be to say "sexy", but that doesn't seem to fit the context...
> I should've been more clear... I'll answer it with a quote from a book called
> "sXe" does mean Straight-edge, it's just an abbreviation that's become
> popular. You're not the first person to mistake it for sexy though ...
Er, thanks for the response, but (1) I didn't mistake it for anything, and
(2) would you consider answering the question, which is "how do you pronounce
the abbreviation"?
--
Mark Brader | "Forgive me if I misunderstood myself, but
Toronto | I don't think I was arguing in favour of that..."
msbr...@interlog.com | -- Geoff Butler
Randy Poe
> >by teaching in 30-60 second blocks. Remember how
> >every episode was "brought to you by the letter
> >Q and the number 5?"
>
> Yes, I also learqed to rea5 from Qeqame Str55t. I hav5 had a verq diqqicult
> time in th5 worq plac5. It is aqq the faul5 of the Qount, and thaq big yeqqow
> bir5.
I knew somebody was gonna complain about this.
So I tried writing "the letter X and the number N"
or adding various qualifiers. I didn't like any
version.
Also it brought up memories of my early childhood
in the (Latin) Catholic mass, where I'd see written
out "our bishop N. and our Pope N.", and I'd strain
my ears to hear what "bishop N." sounded like in Latin.
So I said the hell with it, posted it in original
form and went to bed.
Might as well add something I forgot to mention in the
previous post. Educators noted not only that kids
paid attention to commercial spots, but retained
things from them at a very high rate. Therefore,
30 seconds is the optimum length for education of
small kids, blah, blah, etc.
- Randy
Lalbert1
>Lalbert1 wrote:
>> >by teaching in 30-60 second blocks. Remember how
>> >every episode was "brought to you by the letter
>> >Q and the number 5?"
>>
>> Yes, I also learqed to rea5 from Qeqame Str55t. I hav5 had a verq
>diqqicult
>> time in th5 worq plac5. It is aqq the faul5 of the Qount, and thaq big
>yeqqow
>> bir5.
>
>I knew somebody was gonna complain about this.
>So I tried writing "the letter X and the number N"
>or adding various qualifiers. I didn't like any
>version.
>
>Also it brought up memories of my early childhood
>in the (Latin) Catholic mass, where I'd see written
>out "our bishop N. and our Pope N.", and I'd strain
>my ears to hear what "bishop N." sounded like in Latin.
>
>So I said the hell with it, posted it in original
>form and went to bed.....
I wasn't complaining - these are the jokes, folks.
Actually, I was fascinated when I first saw (as an adult) how Sesame Street
presented numbers and letters to the tots. What you may not have noticed was
the format was always two letters and one number per session. Never two
numbers at one session. I can't remember how I reacted when I was learning
them, but I think number concepts must be harder for kids to learn than the
letters.
Anyway, I don't have trouble with overuse of Q and 5, and The Count is one of
my favorites.
Les
Alan Hamilton
<jakes...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>There actually was a diagonal loading washer on the market a while back--I
>think it was a LONG while back, but one existed nevertheless.
Another variant I saw in Paris: It had a horizontal drum, but a lid
on the top. To get inside, you'd open the lid then rotate the drum
until a door lined up with the lid. You'd then open the door to get
inside.
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com
Tom Nawrocki
: Actually, I was fascinated when I first saw (as an adult) how Sesame Street
: presented numbers and letters to the tots. What you may not have noticed was
: the format was always two letters and one number per session. Never two
: numbers at one session. I can't remember how I reacted when I was learning
: them, but I think number concepts must be harder for kids to learn than the
: letters.
I thought they doubled up on the letters because there are more letters to
learn than numbers. Not literally, of course, but when I was younger, only the
numbers 1 through 10 were used as sponsors.
Now, watching with my son, I see that they venture into the teens, and I think
it tends to be one letter and one number per show. I don't know whether those
two things are related.
Tom Nawrocki
AlanKngsly
>parents like him who work to teach their children tolerance.
Thank you! :)
Alan