Stupendous cost of musical instruments
Bill Kinkaid
<tempu...@spamfilter.bigfoot.com> just had to tell us that:
>
> Case in point: While I am admittedly, an amateur, I enjoy drawing.
>One could easily spend a great deal of money on a good set of art
>pencils, but I'm perfectly content with a stack of typing paper and
>a yellow no. 2 pencil.
>
>
New thread question from non-USAnian: what is a #2 pencil? I always hear
Americans talking about them but I've never seen such a thing. The standard
medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?) is an HB; the hard leads are
H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees of hardness, and the soft ones are B1,
B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2 would correspond to an HB, but how do you guys
class them otherwise?
Bill in Vancouver
too old to be walking around with no shoes,
and too young to be walking around with no teeth
Asterbark
>>
>New thread question from non-USAnian: what is a #2 pencil? I always hear
>Americans talking about them but I've never seen such a thing. The standard
>medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?) is an HB; the hard leads are
>H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees of hardness, and the soft ones are B1,
>B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2 would correspond to an HB, but how do you guys
>class them otherwise?
>
>Bill in Vancouver
>
I've only seen H and B pencils in special art or stationery stores. Our (USAn)
ubiquitous #2 pencil = 2B on the softness scale, soft enough to be dark, hard
enough not to smudge too much on scan forms, and can be bought in packages of 4
or usually 12, at the supermarket, even. Though certain brands make them in
colors or even designs now (new question), why is yellow the standard color?
Astrid
..lit up like a Christmas tree..
K. D.
On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:28:42 GMT,
kin...@spam.still.sucks.bc.sympatico.ca (Bill Kinkaid) wrote:
>
>New thread question from non-USAnian: what is a #2 pencil? I always hear
>Americans talking about them but I've never seen such a thing. The standard
>medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?) is an HB; the hard leads are
>H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees of hardness, and the soft ones are B1,
>B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2 would correspond to an HB, but how do you guys
>class them otherwise?
>
in some drawing pencils. It has been many years, but as I began
reading your question, I was thinking that "HB" probably does coincide
with our #2.
A #2 is soft enough to fill in the test spaces (multiple choice)
completely (with a dark mark), so the tests can be read by a machine,
but not so soft that the mark smudes. It also erases fairly
completely (again, without smudging) -- thus, being just right for the
test-taking / marking purposes.
You may or may not have picked up that #2 pencils are customarily
yellow -- kind of that orangey-yellow like a school bus. Naturally,
there are endless other custom colors and designs.
-KD
deepstblu
aste...@aol.comeieio (Asterbark) wrote:
[about pencils]
> Though certain brands
> make them in
> colors or even designs now (new question), why is yellow the
> standard color?
"During the 1800s, the best graphite in the world came from China.
American pencil makers wanted a special way to tell people that their
pencils contained Chinese graphite.
"In China, the color yellow is associated with royalty and respect.
American pencil manufacturers began painting their pencils bright
yellow to communicate this 'regal' feeling and association with China."
(This site appears to be operated by the people who prduce cedar wood
for pencils. Unfortunately, they had nothing I could see re hardness
numbering.)
Rick B.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
deepstblu
kin...@spam.still.sucks.bc.sympatico.ca (Bill Kinkaid) wrote:
> New thread question from non-USAnian: what is a #2 pencil? I
> always hear
> Americans talking about them but I've never seen such a thing. The
> standard
> medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?) is an HB; the hard
> leads are
> H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees of hardness, and the soft
> ones are B1,
> B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2 would correspond to an HB, but how do
> you guys
> class them otherwise?
#1: Very soft. Often seen in those pencils for first graders that Bill
Cosby called "big as a horse's leg...and you rest 'em on your shoulder
as you write."
#2: Medium-soft. The infamous test-taking pencil.
#2 1/2 (sometimes seen as 2 5/10 or 2 4/8--no idea why.): A tad harder
tham the #2. An unmarked US pencil can be expected to be a 2 or a 2 1/2.
#3: Hard. Not recommended for the newspaper crossword.
I've seen a #4 here and there, but that would be approaching drawing
pencil territory.
No help at www.pencils.com, and www.eberhardfaber.com seems to exist
but was not responding.
Laurence Doering
Bill Kinkaid <kin...@spam.still.sucks.bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:26:44 -0500,"Dustin K. A."
><tempu...@spamfilter.bigfoot.com> just had to tell us that:
>>
>> Case in point: While I am admittedly, an amateur, I enjoy drawing.
>>One could easily spend a great deal of money on a good set of art
>>pencils, but I'm perfectly content with a stack of typing paper and
>>a yellow no. 2 pencil.
>>
>Americans talking about them but I've never seen such a thing. The standard
>medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?) is an HB; the hard leads are
>H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees of hardness, and the soft ones are B1,
>B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2 would correspond to an HB, but how do you guys
>class them otherwise?
Yup, #2 pencil lead is about the same hardness as HB. #1 is softer,
and #3 is harder.
#2 is by far the most commonly sold. The only places I know of that
even carry pencils with lead of varying hardness are art supply stores,
and their pencils (being snooty art supply store artist's pencils,
after all) use the Eurostyle H/B hardness ratings.
ljd
Rich Clancey
charcoal, through 7B, 6B ... 2B, which is roughly the #2 pencil which
is soft enough to leave enough an electrically conducting smear for
the machines to read. Then there's some strange stuff in the middle
range, including B, F, HB, and H, then we start up the hardness scale,
2H, 3H and so on. By 4H you have a pencil that will keep a point for
weeks and rip right through newsprint. 6H is essentially a lifetime
pencil, you never sharpen it because it never wears out. In skilled
hands it is a deadly weapon.
The relative darkness of the different pencils varies very
much by manufacturer. Mars Lumigraph tend to be dark. Berol pencils,
the Tourquoise ones, are two ro three shades lighter through the
entire scale.
A fair amount of experimenting (I draw a lot) indicates that
the traditional #2 Schoolboy's Delight pencil corresponds to about a
2B or B Lumigraph.
For drawing, I recommend a 3B or 4B Lumigraph. Dark enough to
make some real value contrasts, but still holds enough of a point to
keep a good line quality.
Drawing with a #2 el cheapo on copyer paper is quite
rewarding. If you really do a lot of it, you might try one ah them
aht store 3Bs. It makes everything you do look better.
--
-- rich clancey
Stars twinkle above,
We twinkle below.
r...@world.std.com rcla...@massart.edu
Bear
>
> In article <19991214095620...@ng-ft1.aol.com>,
> aste...@aol.comeieio (Asterbark) wrote:
> [about pencils]
> > Though certain brands
> > make them in
> > colors or even designs now (new question), why is yellow the
> > standard color?
> From http://www.pencils.com :
> "During the 1800s, the best graphite in the world came from China.
> American pencil makers wanted a special way to tell people that their
> pencils contained Chinese graphite.
> "In China, the color yellow is associated with royalty and respect.
> American pencil manufacturers began painting their pencils bright
> yellow to communicate this 'regal' feeling and association with China."
> (This site appears to be operated by the people who prduce cedar wood
> for pencils. Unfortunately, they had nothing I could see re hardness
> numbering.)
Damn! I read a whole *book* on the history of pencils, a couple of
years ago. And it wasn't a small book, either. Now I wish I still had
it, so I could recommend it -- how often would one get a chance to pitch
*that* kinda book? I can't even remember its name.
Because it was full of stuff like "because of the War of [Something],
the Germans lost their access to [some kind of] wood, they had to switch
to making pencils out of [another kind of] wood, and it was
[harder/softer], so they adjusted by making their pencils
[fatter/skinnier]..." and so on. It was kinda like "Connections".
--
Bear
Support the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
http://www.circus.com/nodhmo/
Bear
>
> In article <19991214095620...@ng-ft1.aol.com>,
> aste...@aol.comeieio (Asterbark) wrote:
> [about pencils]
> > Though certain brands
> > make them in
> > colors or even designs now (new question), why is yellow the
> > standard color?
> From http://www.pencils.com :
> "During the 1800s, the best graphite in the world came from China.
> American pencil makers wanted a special way to tell people that their
> pencils contained Chinese graphite.
> "In China, the color yellow is associated with royalty and respect.
> American pencil manufacturers began painting their pencils bright
> yellow to communicate this 'regal' feeling and association with China."
> (This site appears to be operated by the people who prduce cedar wood
> for pencils. Unfortunately, they had nothing I could see re hardness
> numbering.)
A *slightly* different take:
David Feldman*, citing Henry Petroski's book "The Pencil: A History of
Design and Circumstance" (which I think is the one I mentioned reading,
in another post a few minutes ago) says: "Petroski attributes the
omnipresence of yellow pencils to the mid-ninteenth century, when pencil
makers faced a shortage of graphite. A German company, A.W.Faber, found
a new and exclusive source of superb graphite in Siberia, near the
Chinese border. Faber's competitors, without access ot Faber's stash,
colored their pencils yellow to hint at the oriental association that
only Faber actually enjoyed."
Slight differences: 1) the probably-US pencil site doesn't mention that
a European competitor got there first and locked up the supple, and they
were merely copying Faber's use of yellow, 2) I'll bet the "royalty and
respect" angle is something dug up (or made up) very recently, as a
piece of revisionism regarding the un-PC idea that yellow=Chinese.
*in "Why Do Dogs Have Wet Noses? and Other Imponderables"
Bear
>
> Paul Guertin (p...@sff.net) wrote:
> : kin...@spam.still.sucks.bc.sympatico.ca (Bill Kinkaid) wrote:
>
> : > The standard medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?) is an HB; the
> : > hard leads are H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees of hardness, and
> : > the soft ones are B1, B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2 would correspond to
> : > an HB, but how do you guys class them otherwise?
>
>
> : 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
>
> "B" stands for "Black".
My source[1] says "B" means "soft". And "H" means "hard".
The continuum as shown in the book (note hardness increases to the right
for each group -- group order if it would fit on one line would be
B-middling-H):
The softest pencils:
8B-7B-6B-5B-4B-3B-2B-B
Softer -------- Harder
Then the "middling" pencils:
HB-F-H
Then the hardest pencils:
2H-3H-4H-5H-6H-7H-8H-9H-10H
Softer ------------- Harder
And the equivalents between writing and art pencils are:
Writing Art
------- ---
1 3B
2 B
2.5 F
3 2H
4 3H
[1] "Reading The Numbers: A Survival Guide to the Measurements, Numbers,
and Sizes Encountered in Everyday Life," Mary Blocksma, (New York:
Penguin, 1989), 131-132.
deepstblu
> And the equivalents between writing and art pencils are:
> Writing Art
> ------- ---
> 1 3B
> 2 B
> 2.5 F
> 3 2H
> 4 3H
> [1] "Reading The Numbers: A Survival Guide to the Measurements,
> Numbers,
> and Sizes Encountered in Everyday Life," Mary Blocksma, (New York:
> Penguin, 1989), 131-132.
The Dixon Ticonderoga folks beg to differ; they give the scale as
#1 = B
#2 = HB
#2.5 = F
#3 = H
#4 = 2H
http://www.prang.com/funfaqs/faq_home.html
Digging into the desk drawer, I find a Dixon Oriole pencil labeled
"2/HB", so at least their practice matches their web site.
Matthew W. Miller
>kin...@spam.still.sucks.bc.sympatico.ca (Bill Kinkaid) wrote:
>ubiquitous #2 pencil = 2B
I believe a number by itself is assumes to be on the H side, not the B
side. So #2 = 2H.
--
Matthew W. Miller -- ma...@infinet.com
David Hatunen
Bill Kinkaid <kin...@spam.still.sucks.bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>New thread question from non-USAnian: what is a #2 pencil? I
>always hear Americans talking about them but I've never seen such
>a thing. The standard medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?)
>is an HB; the hard leads are H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees
>of hardness, and the soft ones are B1, B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2
>would correspond to an HB, but how do you guys class them
>otherwise?
I think the #2, #3, et al, system probably predates the adoption of
the H and B system, which is also used almost universally for the
leads in drafting pencils. Furthermore, the usage of the #2 system
seems inconsistent from manufacturer to manufacturer since #2s seem
to vary a bit in hardness.
But if you told your students to bring an HB pencil to the exam you
would probably get blank looks, since consumer pencils are sold
using the number system.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
* Daly City California *
******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
Helge Moulding
>John Goldsmith wrote:
>> Paul Guertin (p...@sff.net) wrote:
>> : 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
>> "B" stands for "Black".
>My source[1] says "B" means "soft". And "H" means "hard".
Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. Is it
for some foreign language (e.g. German)? Does it refer to
an obscure scale, where H means "hard" for a reason other
than that "hard" starts with H?
My suspicion is that B stands for one admixture to the
graphite stuff (it's graphite+clay+?), or maybe a
manufacturing process, and H stands for another admixture or
process, and not for "hard."
--
Helge "" Moulding
mailto:hmou...@excite.com Just another guy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1401 with a weird name
Bear
>
> Bear wrote in message <3856A21D...@my.box>...
> >John Goldsmith wrote:
> >> Paul Guertin (p...@sff.net) wrote:
> >> : 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
> >> "B" stands for "Black".
> >My source[1] says "B" means "soft". And "H" means "hard".
>
> Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. Is it
I don't know.
Paul Guertin
> The standard medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?) is an HB; the
> hard leads are H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees of hardness, and
> the soft ones are B1, B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2 would correspond to
> an HB, but how do you guys class them otherwise?
Follow-up questions:
1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
2. What's the deal with those funky "F2 1/2" pencils I sometimes see
in art stores between HB and B?
Paul Guertin
p...@sff.net
Jay Pennington
I had always thought they insisted on this pencil for test-taking was
because of a certain quality about the lead that a grading machine
could recognize.
But all that time they were simply making sure our markings didn't rip
the paper? Another childhood assumption squashed....
-Jay Pennington
data...@Iavoidspamleading.net
(remove "Iavoidspam" from address when emailing)
See the Star Wars Special Edition FAQs in Treadwell's Techdome!
http://users.leading.net/~datalore/starwars
Mark Brader
> Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. ...
It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
He also says that different manufacturers use different scales once you
get away from the middle, so that a 6B from one company might be more
like a 4B from another.
Unless my memory is playing tricks, the oddball grade F stands for "firm".
--
Mark Brader | "If there had been government -- and dare I say industrial?
Toronto | -- research establishments in the Stone Age, by now we
m...@vex.net | would have had absolutely superb flint tools. But no one
| would have invented steel." -- Arthur C. Clarke
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Asterbark
I seriously didn't think the answer to my question would be so historically
significant or involved. Having checked my large pencil collection, I noticed
that the FaberCastell brand (when was it just Faber?) comes in at least two
styles, "American" and "MONGOL." The American one (is that made in America, or
made for Americans?) came in a package of assorted yellow, blue, and pink
pencils. The Mongol one is yellow, and it's the only one I have of that kind.
I'm having a hard time distinguishing where some of my pencils have been
manufactured since they've almost all been sharpened. I imagine the
FaberCastell "MONGOL" pencil has some significance toward its history, no
matter where it's being made today. I'm finding the history of the pencil
inordinately fascinating, and wonder why I never sought more meaning to justify
my growing collection of what has to be one of the most ordinary man-made
objects ever. Nerp. (most of my pencils are specials, but I have plenty of
yellow ones I haven't thrown out.) Nerp... nerp squared.
Astrid
"Life ain't nothin'
but a funny,
funny
riddle."
(summers)
Asterbark
>
>In article <3856A21D...@my.box>, Bear <no....@my.box> wrote:
>
>> And the equivalents between writing and art pencils are:
>> Writing Art
>> ------- ---
>> 1 3B
>> 2 B
>> 2.5 F
>> 3 2H
>> 4 3H
>> [1] "Reading The Numbers: A Survival Guide to the Measurements,
>> Numbers,
>> and Sizes Encountered in Everyday Life," Mary Blocksma, (New York:
>> Penguin, 1989), 131-132.
>
>The Dixon Ticonderoga folks beg to differ; they give the scale as
>
>#1 = B
>#2 = HB
>#2.5 = F
>#3 = H
>#4 = 2H
>
>http://www.prang.com/funfaqs/faq_home.html
>
>Digging into the desk drawer, I find a Dixon Oriole pencil labeled
>"2/HB", so at least their practice matches their web site.
>
Checking my enormous pencil collection, I dug out an assortment of ordinary
pencils by several different manufacturers. In the name of scientific research,
I can't believe I care so much:
Dixon Ticonderoga: 2 'soft', is softer than the Dixon Ticonderoga 2 5/10.
FaberCastell "American" is slightly softer than FaberCastell "MONGOL," both
straight 2s.
By feel, Dixon Ticonderogas and FaberCastells seemed harder against ordinary
copy paper than any other pencil from the drawer, then Choice #2, Eton #2, then
Thor #2, then C.A.B./Utica NY #2, and an odd green pencil from Germany that
says HB is actually slightly softer than the American #2s, the smoothest draw
out of the bunch. Trying to make the darkest mark possible on ordinary copy
paper, Eton #2, Choice #2, and Dixon Ticonderoga #2 5/10 were slightly lighter
than the rest; none of the rest were any darker than another.
As I had been taught and generally led to believe enough that I reported here
that an American #2 = 2B on the hardness scale, it appears I've made a mistake.
#2 does = HB after all, but just to be certain, not all ordinary #2 American
pencils are as soft or hard as the next.*
*Certain examples have been left out because I don't feel like sharpening them
right now, and anyway, I think 9 is enough for a sample size, considering they
didn't differ significantly for the everyday consumer of pencils.
Randy Poe
>New thread question from non-USAnian: what is a #2 pencil? I always hear
>Americans talking about them but I've never seen such a thing. The standard
>medium-hardness lead in Canada (and in UK?) is an HB; the hard leads are
>H1, H2, H3 etc in increasing degrees of hardness, and the soft ones are B1,
>B2, B3 etc. I presume a #2 would correspond to an HB, but how do you guys
>class them otherwise?
Most writing pencils are #2. The #1's are very soft, you hardly ever
run into them. I've seen #4's sold in art supply places. Never ran
into any other hardness grades than those. Maybe that helps figure out
how the scale corresponds to yours. Sounds like you have a lot more
grades than we do.
- Randy
Paul Guertin
> >>>> 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
> >>> "B" stands for "Black".
> >> My source[1] says "B" means "soft". ...
> > Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. ...
> It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
Thanks to all who explained about the BFH (almost wrote BOFH)
system of pencil classification.
Did you know they have 0.4 mm mechanical pencils in Japan?
Paul Guertin
p...@sff.net
Brian Yeoh
> m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > > Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. ...
> > It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
> Thanks to all who explained about the BFH (almost wrote BOFH)
> system of pencil classification.
> Did you know they have 0.4 mm mechanical pencils in Japan?
0.7mm as well. Is that that uncommon in the States? I'm still using my
trusty new Rotring as a pencil, so I haven't gone shopping for lead yet.
Brian "used to _love_ swiping 6H pencils from art class" Yeoh
Whoever had created humanity had left in a major design flaw. It was its
tendency to bend at the knees.
Terry Pratchett, _Men at Arms_
J. Michael Looney
by...@panix.com says...
>
>On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Paul Guertin wrote:
>
>> m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> > > Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. ...
>> > It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
>> Thanks to all who explained about the BFH (almost wrote BOFH)
>> system of pencil classification.
>> Did you know they have 0.4 mm mechanical pencils in Japan?
>
>0.7mm as well. Is that that uncommon in the States? I'm still using my
>trusty new Rotring as a pencil, so I haven't gone shopping for lead yet.
>
>
I see .3 .5 and .7 rather often Not sure I have ever seen a .4 in USA or the
FRG
--
Silliness is the last refuge of the doomed P. Opus
Geek Code: GAT d-- s:- a40 UL+++ P++ L+++ E- W+++ N++ K++ w++ O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y PGP t++ 5 X R+++ tv+ b++++ DI+++ D G+ e+ h--- r+++ y+++(**)
Bob Code: KPkKtpdh- lWdH ECs-d++ m5 CPEIVW B-18 Ol LS SC+++ T- A7LAT H8o b13 D1
Rich Clancey
+ Bear wrote in message <3856A21D...@my.box>...
+ >John Goldsmith wrote:
+ >> Paul Guertin (p...@sff.net) wrote:
+ >> : 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
+ >> "B" stands for "Black".
+ >My source[1] says "B" means "soft". And "H" means "hard".
+ Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. Is it
+ for some foreign language (e.g. German)? Does it refer to
+ an obscure scale, where H means "hard" for a reason other
+ than that "hard" starts with H?
+ My suspicion is that B stands for one admixture to the
+ graphite stuff (it's graphite+clay+?), or maybe a
+ manufacturing process, and H stands for another admixture or
+ process, and not for "hard."
+ --
Nowadays it's graphite and polymer of some sort. That's the
reason you can have 3B and 4B 0.5mm drafting pencil leads which don't
simply crumble when you look at them. The old clay mixtures got very
bad in the tensile strength department for the darker colors. The
plastic polymers used now are just another example of thinner lines
through chemistry.
Rich Clancey
+ Bear no....@my.box wrote:
+ >
+ >deepstblu wrote:
+ >>
+ >> In article <19991214095620...@ng-ft1.aol.com>,
+ >> aste...@aol.comeieio (Asterbark) wrote:
+ >> [about pencils]
+ >> > Though certain brands
+ >> > make them in
+ >> > colors or even designs now (new question), why is yellow the
+ >> > standard color?
+ >> From http://www.pencils.com :
+ >> "During the 1800s, the best graphite in the world came from China.
+ >> American pencil makers wanted a special way to tell people that their
+ >> pencils contained Chinese graphite.
+ >> "In China, the color yellow is associated with royalty and respect.
+ >> American pencil manufacturers began painting their pencils bright
+ >> yellow to communicate this 'regal' feeling and association with China."
+ >> (This site appears to be operated by the people who prduce cedar wood
+ >> for pencils. Unfortunately, they had nothing I could see re hardness
+ >> numbering.)
+ >
+ >A *slightly* different take:
+ >
+ >David Feldman*, citing Henry Petroski's book "The Pencil: A History of
+ >Design and Circumstance" (which I think is the one I mentioned reading,
+ >in another post a few minutes ago) says: "Petroski attributes the
+ >omnipresence of yellow pencils to the mid-ninteenth century, when pencil
+ >makers faced a shortage of graphite. A German company, A.W.Faber, found
+ >a new and exclusive source of superb graphite in Siberia, near the
+ >Chinese border. Faber's competitors, without access ot Faber's stash,
+ >colored their pencils yellow to hint at the oriental association that
+ >only Faber actually enjoyed."
+ >
+ >Slight differences: 1) the probably-US pencil site doesn't mention that
+ >a European competitor got there first and locked up the supple, and they
+ >were merely copying Faber's use of yellow, 2) I'll bet the "royalty and
+ >respect" angle is something dug up (or made up) very recently, as a
+ >piece of revisionism regarding the un-PC idea that yellow=Chinese.
+ >
+ >*in "Why Do Dogs Have Wet Noses? and Other Imponderables"
+ >
+ I seriously didn't think the answer to my question would be so historically
+ significant or involved. Having checked my large pencil collection, I noticed
+ that the FaberCastell brand (when was it just Faber?) comes in at least two
+ styles, "American" and "MONGOL." The American one (is that made in America, or
+ made for Americans?) came in a package of assorted yellow, blue, and pink
+ pencils. The Mongol one is yellow, and it's the only one I have of that kind.
+ I'm having a hard time distinguishing where some of my pencils have been
+ manufactured since they've almost all been sharpened. I imagine the
+ FaberCastell "MONGOL" pencil has some significance toward its history, no
+ matter where it's being made today. I'm finding the history of the pencil
+ inordinately fascinating, and wonder why I never sought more meaning to justify
+ my growing collection of what has to be one of the most ordinary man-made
+ objects ever. Nerp. (most of my pencils are specials, but I have plenty of
+ yellow ones I haven't thrown out.) Nerp... nerp squared.
Don't that beat all. The Faber drawing pencils are dark
green. It's a sort of trade mark for them.
Bear
Mark Brader wrote:
>
> >>>> 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
> > Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. ...
>
> It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
> get away from the middle, so that a 6B from one company might be more
> like a 4B from another.
And some variation of equivalents has been reported here, in response to
the tables I reproduced.
> Unless my memory is playing tricks, the oddball grade F stands for "firm".
When I was doing the research that turned up those tables, I read that
it means "fine".
Bear
Paul Guertin wrote:
>
> m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
> > >>>> 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
> > >>> "B" stands for "Black".
> > >> My source[1] says "B" means "soft". ...
> > > Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. ...
> > It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
>
> system of pencil classification.
>
> Did you know they have 0.4 mm mechanical pencils in Japan?
Well, they're kinda small people.
Bear
> >David Feldman*, citing Henry Petroski's book "The Pencil: A History of
> >Design and Circumstance" (which I think is the one I mentioned reading,
> I seriously didn't think the answer to my question would be so historically
> significant or involved. Having checked my large pencil collection, I noticed
I think you'd enjoy Petroski's book. Check it out at Amazon; several
reviews there.
StarChaser <Anti spam feature in address.>
>m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>> >>>> 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
>> >>> "B" stands for "Black".
>> >> My source[1] says "B" means "soft". ...
>> > Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. ...
>> It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
>
>Thanks to all who explained about the BFH (almost wrote BOFH)
>system of pencil classification.
>
>Did you know they have 0.4 mm mechanical pencils in Japan?
My favorite pencil is a 0.3mm one..have to be careful with it,
sometimes it just razors through the paper if it catches a rough spot,
but I love it...
--
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Brian Yeoh
> m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > > Sure. But why? It's not like "soft" starts with a B. ...
> > It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
> Thanks to all who explained about the BFH (almost wrote BOFH)
> system of pencil classification.
> Did you know they have 0.4 mm mechanical pencils in Japan?
0.7mm as well. Is that that uncommon in the States? I'm still using my
trusty new Rotring as a pencil, so I haven't gone shopping for lead yet.
Brian "used to _love_ swiping 6H pencils from art class" Yeoh
Whoever had created humanity had left in a major design flaw. It was its
tendency to bend at the knees.
Terry Pratchett, _Men at Arms_
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Bear
Mark Brader wrote:
>
> >>>> 1. I guess "H" means "hard". What does "B" stand for?
> >>> "B" stands for "Black".
> >> My source[1] says "B" means "soft". ...
>
> It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
> get away from the middle, so that a 6B from one company might be more
> like a 4B from another.
And some variation of equivalents has been reported here, in response to
the tables I reproduced.
> Unless my memory is playing tricks, the oddball grade F stands for "firm".
When I was doing the research that turned up those tables, I read that
it means "fine".
--
Bear
Support the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
http://www.circus.com/nodhmo/
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J. Michael Looney
>> > It *means* "soft". It *stands for* "black"; Petroski (op.cit.) says so.
>> system of pencil classification.
>> Did you know they have 0.4 mm mechanical pencils in Japan?
>
>0.7mm as well. Is that that uncommon in the States? I'm still using my
>trusty new Rotring as a pencil, so I haven't gone shopping for lead yet.
>
>
I see .3 .5 and .7 rather often Not sure I have ever seen a .4 in USA or the
FRG
--
Silliness is the last refuge of the doomed P. Opus
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Paul Guertin
> > Did you know they have 0.4 mm mechanical pencils in Japan?
>
> 0.7mm as well. Is that that uncommon in the States?
Dunno about the States but in Canada, 0.5 and 0.7 are common
and you can get 0.3 and 0.9 in specialized shops. But I'd
never seen a 0.4 before coming to Japan.
> Brian "used to _love_ swiping 6H pencils from art class" Yeoh
Paul "once gave a 9B pencil to my mother for her birthday" Guertin
p...@sff.net
Paul Guertin
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Joy Wingert
> Damn! I read a whole *book* on the history of pencils, a couple of
> years ago. And it wasn't a small book, either. Now I wish I still had
> it, so I could recommend it -- how often would one get a chance to pitch
> *that* kinda book? I can't even remember its name.
Henry Petroski's "The Pencil: A History of Design and Circumstance"
Brent Huiberts
Amy Elizabeth Gleason
GrapeApe wrote:
>
> I'm still trying to figure out what makes a #2 pencil a musical instrument of
> stupendous cost.
Well, in another thread there was a guy banging his pencil on his glass
eye, so that MAY count as percussion, and glass eyes can't be cheap...
L & k,
Amy the Over-tired
GrapeApe
Bear
GrapeApe wrote:
>
> I'm still trying to figure out what makes a #2 pencil a musical instrument of
> stupendous cost.
First, you must assume it's a woodwind.
Marc Reeve
>In article <3856A21D...@my.box>, Bear <no....@my.box> wrote:
>
>> And the equivalents between writing and art pencils are:
>> Writing Art
>> ------- ---
>> 1 3B
>> 2 B
>> 2.5 F
>> 3 2H
>> 4 3H
>> [1] "Reading The Numbers: A Survival Guide to the Measurements,
>> Numbers,
>> and Sizes Encountered in Everyday Life," Mary Blocksma, (New York:
>> Penguin, 1989), 131-132.
>
>The Dixon Ticonderoga folks beg to differ; they give the scale as
>
>#1 = B
>#2 = HB
>#2.5 = F
>#3 = H
>#4 = 2H
>
>http://www.prang.com/funfaqs/faq_home.html
>
>Digging into the desk drawer, I find a Dixon Oriole pencil labeled
>"2/HB", so at least their practice matches their web site.
>
from three different manufacturers (Mirado, Eberhard Faber, and Dixon),
as well as an oddball #2.5/F from Sanford.
Methinks the Blocksma book may have its numbers wrong.
Marc "that list should have been blue-penciled" Reeve
--
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