Nobody Ever Dies
M C Hamster
is in there, and I'd call him semi-famous, but he's the only one for
at least a month.
On ABC's This Week they have an "In Memoriam" segment, and this week
they had three people nobody has ever heard of (e.g., Christo's
*wife*, for God's sake, and some unknown lawyer for Richard Nixon).
Last week, they included absolutely nobody, aside from the names of
servicemen killed in Iraq and Afghanistan which they list each week.
I know the smart betting is that sooner or later someone famous will
die, but I don't recall any spell like this, and I'm beginning to
wonder.
And if and when the dry spell breaks, it's sure going to be something
fearsome to see.
--
M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
Snidely
> And if and when the dry spell breaks, it's sure going to be something
> fearsome to see.
It's been a while, but I seem to recall that someone famous died on
this date. Now where was I?
/dps
art...@yahoo.com
wrote:
There is some truly annoying troll on rec.sport.baseball who regularly
has posts titled "So and So last' words. The last words always are
supposed to include something to the effect that Pete Rose belongs in
the Hall of Fame.
Anyways currently we have
"Stephanie Spielman's last words" (I think she was the wife of Chris
Spielman, football player and announcer"
"John Allen Muhammad's last words"
"Ken Ober's last words"
"Vitaly Ginzburg's last words "
I cant even be bothered to find out who the last 2 are. I suppose I
should know.
There also someone who keeps posting notice of Bob Dylan's death on
the film newsgroup.
Boron Elgar
<davo...@nospam.speakeasy.net> wrote:
>It has now been many weeks since anyone famous has died. Soupy Sales
>is in there, and I'd call him semi-famous, but he's the only one for
>at least a month.
>
>On ABC's This Week they have an "In Memoriam" segment, and this week
>they had three people nobody has ever heard of (e.g., Christo's
>*wife*, for God's sake,
Christo's wife worked with him on all his projects and was quite well
known to anyone who knew his work. The decision not to include her
name early on in the cooperative efforts was a business one.
Eventually her name was included.
Boron
art...@yahoo.com
> On 22 Nov 2009 10:36:02 -0600, M C Hamster
>
Did she also lack a last name? Or was her name "Christo's wife"?
landotter
wrote:
Jeanne-Claude donated her body to science. An exhibitionist to the
very end. Quite awesome. :-D
Boron Elgar
They both went by their first names, she by Jeanne-Claude.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/arts/design/20jeanne-claude.html?ref=obituaries
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
M C Hamster wrote:
>
> It has now been many weeks since anyone famous has died. Soupy Sales
> is in there, and I'd call him semi-famous, but he's the only one for
> at least a month.
>
> On ABC's This Week they have an "In Memoriam" segment, and this week
> they had three people nobody has ever heard of (e.g., Christo's
> *wife*,
>
The funeral will be coloured like "Les parapluies de Cherbourg".
Someone else will be killed by an overblown bumbershoot, no doubt.
--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
Jesper Lauridsen
> It has now been many weeks since anyone famous has died. Soupy Sales
> is in there, and I'd call him semi-famous, but he's the only one for
> at least a month.
Robert Enke committed suicide by train, 2 weeks ago this Tuesday.
You might not know him, but 45000 showed up for the service.
Boron Elgar
And Edward Woodward seems to have been forgotten rather quickly.
Boron
M C Hamster
Who?
M C Hamster
I assure you that nobody west of the Delaware River has ever heard of
her. Except Dover, she's probably heard of her.
Dover Beach
news:1kvjg5d0ossvlvknv...@4ax.com:
>
> I assure you that nobody west of the Delaware River has ever heard of
> her. Except Dover, she's probably heard of her.
Uh, I'd heard of Christo's wife, and knew she worked with him, but I
couldn't have come up with the name Jeanne-Claude.
In 1975 I was taking art history in high school, and Christo's Running
Fence was being completed in Sonoma. We had lots of class discussions
about whether it counted as art.
--
Dover
Nasti J
[re: Jeanne-Claude, Christo's late wife]:
> I assure you that nobody west of the Delaware River has ever heard of
> her. Except Dover, she's probably heard of her.
Don't know about your area, but our local PBS station recently aired a
documentary on Herb and Dorothy Vogel, famous for their art
collection, which featured interviews with both Christo and Jeanne-
Claude - the Vogels took care of their cat Gladys during the summer
they were installing "Valley Curtain" in Colorado; in return, they
gave the Vogels a collage that was a preparatory work for the
instalation.
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/herb-and-dorothy/film.html
njg
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
This newsgroup probably wouldn't focus much a German keeper, but
you never know. I'd heard of it, and the confusion given his
personal situation, the stress of playing pro sport, etc.
bill van
Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
My definition of art includes stuff that engenders discussions about
what constitutes art.
Boron Elgar
<davo...@nospam.speakeasy.net> wrote:
And my family and my husband's family out in CA, just so there are a
few scattered out west to keep Dover company.
Most people on either side of the Delaware don't know anything about
the sort of art Christo and Jeanne-Claude did. It isn't a popular
topic, nor are the works of Thomas Pynchon, Stockhausen, or Francis
Crick.
I mean, we could bring up the Amy story again, but why bother?
But getting back to Christo, there are several places west of the
Delaware where they set up projects, Chicago among them, as well as
Kansas City, MO, and Sonoma and Marin Counties.
It doesn't make you a heathen not knowing about the pair of artists,
but I see no reason to brag about not knowing any bit of information
the world has to offer.
Boron
Boron Elgar
Boron Elgar
I saw that. The Vogels were very interesting people.
Boron
art...@yahoo.com
>
> Most people on either side of the Delaware don't know anything about
> the sort of art Christo and Jeanne-Claude did. It isn't a popular
> topic, nor are the works of Thomas Pynchon, Stockhausen, or Francis
> Crick.
Isn't there a current TV series based on one of Pynchon's books?
Dover Beach
news:k5vkg55tgj9gvj37d...@4ax.com:
Mr. Buhler was a good teacher. He clearly thought it was art, but he
let the kids argue both sides (insofar as 10th graders can argue about
that stuff.) I recall concluding that it was art, but I don't know if
my classmates did. I'm sure Mr. B. brought up the various standard
reasons one might or might not consider something art.
--
Dover
Rick B.
news:1kvjg5d0ossvlvknv...@4ax.com:
I've heard of her now...if I cross the Delaware River at lunchtime, will I
forget about her? (Morrisville, Pennsylvania--magic land of nepenthe and
discount cigarettes.)
M C Hamster
>On Nov 23, 7:14�am, Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Most people on either side of the Delaware don't know anything about
>> the sort of art Christo and Jeanne-Claude did. It isn't a popular
>> topic, nor are the works of Thomas Pynchon, Stockhausen, or Francis
>> Crick.
>
Oh, but see, I know all of those people. And I am a total
Pynchonophile. I know Christo. He's famous. It's just that "one of
these things is not like the others"....
>Isn't there a current TV series based on one of Pynchon's books?
At last, "The Crying of Lot 49" comes to the widescreen! They said it
couldn't be done!
I did vaguely hope that V. was MY V. But alas.
S. Checker
The Delaware lies 9 blocks to the east of me and I was well aware of
her. I liked her hair.
--
The hearing ear is always found close to the speaking tongue, a custom
whereof the memory of man runneth not howsomever to the contrary, nohow.
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:k5vkg55tgj9gvj37d...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 23 Nov 2009 03:37:33 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>In 1975 I was taking art history in high school, and Christo's Running
>>>Fence was being completed in Sonoma. We had lots of class discussions
>>>about whether it counted as art.
>>
>>
>> Any conclusions drawn?
>>
>
>Mr. Buhler was a good teacher. He clearly thought it was art, but he
>let the kids argue both sides (insofar as 10th graders can argue about
>that stuff.) I recall concluding that it was art, but I don't know if
>my classmates did. I'm sure Mr. B. brought up the various standard
>reasons one might or might not consider something art.
It is the song that never ends.
Boron
Boron Elgar
I lost track of his TV credits after his Simpsons appearances.
Boron
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>M C Hamster <davo...@nospam.speakeasy.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:36:12 -0500, Boron Elgar
>> <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>They both went by their first names, she by Jeanne-Claude.
>>>
>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/arts/design/20jeanne-claude.html?ref=obituaries
>>
>> I assure you that nobody west of the Delaware River has ever heard of
>> her. Except Dover, she's probably heard of her.
>
>The Delaware lies 9 blocks to the east of me and I was well aware of
>her. I liked her hair.
Great hair...reminded me of the flaming orange they like to use in
their fabrics.
Boron
Lee
> M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:36:12 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>They both went by their first names, she by Jeanne-Claude.
>
>
> > I assure you that nobody west of the Delaware River has ever heard of
> > her. Except Dover, she's probably heard of her.
>
> The Delaware lies 9 blocks to the east of me and I was well aware of
> her. I liked her hair.
> --
This is all that has come out so far today over here. I know neither
person...
darkon
"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:n5plg5l67gncv03rn...@4ax.com...
I'm willing to call it art, but for my taste it's not very interesting art.
It just doesn't speak to me. I'd rather look at a Bob Ross painting --
although in his case, it's more fun to watch and listen to him paint than it
is to look at the final product. Performance art.
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>
>"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:n5plg5l67gncv03rn...@4ax.com...
>> On 23 Nov 2009 13:01:24 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>news:k5vkg55tgj9gvj37d...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On 23 Nov 2009 03:37:33 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.b...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In 1975 I was taking art history in high school, and Christo's Running
>>>>>Fence was being completed in Sonoma. We had lots of class discussions
>>>>>about whether it counted as art.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any conclusions drawn?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Mr. Buhler was a good teacher. He clearly thought it was art, but he
>>>let the kids argue both sides (insofar as 10th graders can argue about
>>>that stuff.) I recall concluding that it was art, but I don't know if
>>>my classmates did. I'm sure Mr. B. brought up the various standard
>>>reasons one might or might not consider something art.
>>
>> It is the song that never ends.
>
>I'm willing to call it art, but for my taste it's not very interesting art.
>It just doesn't speak to me. I'd rather look at a Bob Ross painting --
>although in his case, it's more fun to watch and listen to him paint than it
>is to look at the final product. Performance art.
I can walk through lots of galleries at MOMA or similar and think
Emperor's New Clothes and know that there are works out there that
just do not have any effect on me whatsoever. Some, I cannot even
appreciate from a detached view and try to understand why others might
like them.
I don't think of Bob Ross' paintings are much above hobbyist level
(not that I could even do a quarter as well, as I cannot paint at
all) and he, himself, felt that the pictures were really there to sell
the supplies and didn't really sell them.
II try to be open about art and try not to go in to see something with
any preconceptions. Often, I try to avoid context and cultural
relevance before I view pieces, just to be grabbed by the pure visual
experience, but there are some things, some artists, who do little for
me.
Picasso is one. I love his sketches and ceramics and sculptures and a
few of his more realistic paintings, but a lot of his abstract
paintings just leave me scratching my head in wonder. Go figure. Then
there are other art works, from ancient to contemporary, that have a
chance of knocking my socks off. I see a piece and it takes my breath
away. I just try not to get glue-trapped.
Boron
M C Hamster
wrote:
Whew. I knew at least one other person in America didn't know her.
darkon
>
> II try to be open about art and try not to go in to see something with
> any preconceptions. Often, I try to avoid context and cultural
> relevance before I view pieces, just to be grabbed by the pure visual
> experience, but there are some things, some artists, who do little for
> me.
>
> Picasso is one. I love his sketches and ceramics and sculptures and a
> few of his more realistic paintings, but a lot of his abstract
> paintings just leave me scratching my head in wonder. Go figure. Then
> there are other art works, from ancient to contemporary, that have a
> chance of knocking my socks off. I see a piece and it takes my breath
> away. I just try not to get glue-trapped.
You've probably seen the film "The Mystery of Picasso", I guess. If you
haven't, it's highly recommended. Much of it is him him on one side of a
transparent canvas (or paper, I'm not sure) and painting away at a number of
quick subjects, often completely changing the subject during the process. A
later part shows a complete painting, starting with a realistic drawing that
he transforms into something more abstract. Even better, it's funny,
because he's obviously having fun, and makes at least one self-deprecating
remark at one point that he was ruining it. (It's been decades since I've
seen it, so accuracy is not guaranteed.)
Boron Elgar
wrote:
I don't think I have seen it, but I'll see if I can chase it down.
Boron
Bob E.
I remember when they were constructing the Running Fence, and thinking
that it was sort of a silly idea. There were many news stories about
the solicitation of volunteer labor, the problems of obtaining temporary
right-of-way (or easements, or whatever you want to call the access
issues...), and progress reports as it was going up. It was certainly
different, as art-works go, but just seemed a little bit too much from
cloud-cuckoo land. Then, as it happened, the Mini Owners club of which
I was a member had a get-together and country-road tour that visited the
site, and my opinion took a 180-degree turn (my Moke probably did too,
at some point, but I don't remember that part...). Actually seeing the
fence as a continuous unit, marching across distant hills, descending
and ascending valley slopes, coming right at you to the only breaks it
had where it crossed a road, and then carrying off again into the
distance, was a magical experience, and I'm glad I got to see it.
Arriving at the end, where it drove on down to the shore and plunged
into the ocean, was a magical, emotional moment, but I'm thinking you
had to be there. TV could not do it justice.
> Picasso is one. I love his sketches and ceramics and sculptures and a
> few of his more realistic paintings, but a lot of his abstract
> paintings just leave me scratching my head in wonder. Go figure. Then
> there are other art works, from ancient to contemporary, that have a
> chance of knocking my socks off. I see a piece and it takes my breath
> away. I just try not to get glue-trapped.
Again, I'm not often moved by that sort of thing, but I think I would be
"glue-trapped" (very apt term!) by a particular Rothko canvas if I ever
got to see it for real. It's red on top (although the sides and top
fade to black) and nearly black on the lower half. I've only ever seen
it on television, but even so, there was a tremendous power that reached
out to me. That hazy horizontal transition from red to black is
absolute magic, and I'm sure I could gaze at it for a long time. It's
totally irreproducible, supremely executed, and masterfully inspired.
None of his other works speak to me like that one.
--Bob
Snidely
> On Nov 22, 8:36 am, M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net> wrote:
>
> > And if and when the dry spell breaks, it's sure going to be something
> > fearsome to see.
>
> It's been a while, but I seem to recall that someone famous died on
> this date. Now where was I?
Perhaps I was too sub tull. A textbook case.
/dps
Tony Myers www.sedatedape.com (A many splendored thing )
wrote:
> It has now been many weeks since anyone famous has died.
Are you just going to complain, or are you going to do something about
it?
All the Osmonds are still alive. I'm not telling you how to do your
buisness, but it might be a good place to start. And if you count all
of the second generation Osmonds it would be a project that could keep
you busy for months. Unless you tried to get them all at the same
time, like at a family reunion.
If you decide to kill them one by one Alan has multiple sclerosis,
according to wikipedia, He would probably be the easiest one to start
with. Save Donny for last - he's the only one that's a little bit rock
n' roll, so he would probably put up the biggest fight.
M C Hamster
Schoolbooks, not textbooks.
M C Hamster
www.sedatedape.com (A many splendored thing )" <sedat...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have a photograph of Donny Osmond sitting on my bookcase shelf.
Really.
Snidely
wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:30:02 -0800 (PST), Snidely
>
> >On Nov 22, 8:47 am, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 22, 8:36 am, M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net> wrote:
>
> >> > And if and when the dry spell breaks, it's sure going to be something
> >> > fearsome to see.
>
> >> It's been a while, but I seem to recall that someone famous died on
> >> this date. Now where was I?
>
> >Perhaps I was too sub tull. A textbook case.
>
> Schoolbooks, not textbooks.
The difference is elementary?
/dps
Bill Turlock
What was Donny Osmond doing in your pajamas anyway?
bill van
I don't know, but MC should have shot 'im.
Boron Elgar
>Boron Elgar wrote:
(re:Christo)
>I remember when they were constructing the Running Fence, and thinking
>that it was sort of a silly idea. There were many news stories about
>the solicitation of volunteer labor, the problems of obtaining temporary
>right-of-way (or easements, or whatever you want to call the access
>issues...), and progress reports as it was going up. It was certainly
>different, as art-works go, but just seemed a little bit too much from
>cloud-cuckoo land. Then, as it happened, the Mini Owners club of which
>I was a member had a get-together and country-road tour that visited the
>site, and my opinion took a 180-degree turn (my Moke probably did too,
>at some point, but I don't remember that part...). Actually seeing the
>fence as a continuous unit, marching across distant hills, descending
>and ascending valley slopes, coming right at you to the only breaks it
>had where it crossed a road, and then carrying off again into the
>distance, was a magical experience, and I'm glad I got to see it.
>Arriving at the end, where it drove on down to the shore and plunged
>into the ocean, was a magical, emotional moment, but I'm thinking you
>had to be there. TV could not do it justice.
I did not see that one. The only one I have seen in person has been
The Gates, but I came away feeling as you did. There is something
quite wonderful about this monumental art, that is not just the
expression and communication of the artist, but require the
cooperation of many people to create it. And the very deliberate
ephemeral nature of it all is also touching.
>
>> Then
>> there are other art works, from ancient to contemporary, that have a
>> chance of knocking my socks off. I see a piece and it takes my breath
>> away. I just try not to get glue-trapped.
>
>Again, I'm not often moved by that sort of thing, but I think I would be
>"glue-trapped" (very apt term!) by a particular Rothko canvas if I ever
>got to see it for real. It's red on top (although the sides and top
>fade to black) and nearly black on the lower half. I've only ever seen
>it on television, but even so, there was a tremendous power that reached
>out to me. That hazy horizontal transition from red to black is
>absolute magic, and I'm sure I could gaze at it for a long time. It's
>totally irreproducible, supremely executed, and masterfully inspired.
>None of his other works speak to me like that one.
>
>--Bob
NYC is full of Rothkos and I have been very fortunate to see them. His
bright color block paintings are great and I go out of my way to find
them in any city I visit. I do like almost all of them, too.
Is this the one you mean?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_obvQUTP1ifY/R1etBzMsnFI/AAAAAAAAAKI/_KJ6ndAzyb4/s400/Mark-Rothko-No-14-1960-7893.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/ldsebb
I used to have a poster of one of his paintings one hanging in my
office. As the time grew closer to his suicide, the colors of these
wonderful works went from bright, almost sunny at a times, to darker
and more muddy and well into browns. The later paintings do not have
the aesthetic appeal of the earlier ones and can be depressing.
Boron
art...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:24:40 -0800 (PST), "art...@yahoo.com"
>
> <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 23, 7:14 am, Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Most people on either side of the Delaware don't know anything about
> >> the sort of art Christo and Jeanne-Claude did. It isn't a popular
> >> topic, nor are the works of Thomas Pynchon, Stockhausen, or Francis
> >> Crick.
>
> Oh, but see, I know all of those people. And I am a total
> Pynchonophile. I know Christo. He's famous. It's just that "one of
> these things is not like the others"....
>
> >Isn't there a current TV series based on one of Pynchon's books?
>
> At last, "The Crying of Lot 49" comes to the widescreen! They said it
> couldn't be done!
Who would want to watch a story about a weepy parking structure?
Bill Kinkaid
www.sedatedape.com (A many splendored thing )" <sedat...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Nov 22, 10:36�am, M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net>
I was going to say save Marie for last but I was thinking of how she
looked 20-30 years ago. The years have not been kind to her.
But Donny always was cuter...
--
Bill in Vancouver
Richard R. Hershberger
> On Nov 22, 11:36 am, M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net>
> wrote:
>
> > It has now been many weeks since anyone famous has died. Soupy Sales
> > is in there, and I'd call him semi-famous, but he's the only one for
> > at least a month.
>
> > On ABC's This Week they have an "In Memoriam" segment, and this week
> > they had three people nobody has ever heard of (e.g., Christo's
> > Last week, they included absolutely nobody, aside from the names of
> > servicemen killed in Iraq and Afghanistan which they list each week.
> > I know the smart betting is that sooner or later someone famous will
> > die, but I don't recall any spell like this, and I'm beginning to
> > wonder.
>
> > And if and when the dry spell breaks, it's sure going to be something
> > fearsome to see.
>
> has posts titled "So and So last' words. The last words always are
> supposed to include something to the effect that Pete Rose belongs in
> the Hall of Fame.
Is that what those posts are? I never bothered to open one. In any
case, rec.sport.baseball is now a dead group. I wonder why he
continues to make the effort.
> Anyways currently we have
> "Stephanie Spielman's last words" (I think she was the wife of Chris
> Spielman, football player and announcer"
> "John Allen Muhammad's last words"
> "Ken Ober's last words"
> "Vitaly Ginzburg's last words "
>
> I cant even be bothered to find out who the last 2 are. I suppose I
> should know.
>
> There also someone who keeps posting notice of Bob Dylan's death on
> the film newsgroup.
Richard R. Hershberger
> In article <Xns9CCBD18CF8934moonblanchedgmail...@130.133.1.4>,
> Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net> wrote in
> >news:1kvjg5d0ossvlvknv...@4ax.com:
>
> > > I assure you that nobody west of the Delaware River has ever heard of
> > > her. Except Dover, she's probably heard of her.
>
> > couldn't have come up with the name Jeanne-Claude.
>
> > Fence was being completed in Sonoma. We had lots of class discussions
> > about whether it counted as art.
>
> what constitutes art.
By this definition, Dover's post qualifies. I feel honored to have
read it.
Dover Beach
news:tvtng59090bh34il5...@4ax.com:
>
> I was going to say save Marie for last but I was thinking of how she
> looked 20-30 years ago. The years have not been kind to her.
No, her plastic surgeon has not been kind to her. She had some famously
awful plastic surgery. Lately, though, she looks a little more human
again.
>
> But Donny always was cuter...
>
If you say so.
--
Dover
Dover Beach
news:043c2cbd-9758-4545...@m33g2000vbi.googlegroups.com:
Well move along, the audio is over and you're blocking everyone's view.
--
Dover
Richard R. Hershberger
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:25:44 -0500, "darkon" <darkon....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Boron Elgar" <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:n5plg5l67gncv03rn...@4ax.com...
> >> On 23 Nov 2009 13:01:24 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>>Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >>>news:k5vkg55tgj9gvj37d...@4ax.com:
>
> >>>> On 23 Nov 2009 03:37:33 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com>
My approach is pretty much the opposite. I want all the context I can
get. My personal taste in art runs a bit more old-fashioned that the
stuff discussed in this thread. If, for example, I see a medieval
painting of some guy with a halo and a bunch of arrows stuck in him,
knowing it is St. Sebastian and knowing the story behind it is vital
to understanding the piece.
At the other end of the spectrum, the modern "is it art?" discussion
seems to hinge entirely on context. Matters have been taken very
nearly to their logical conclusion, with examples stuff like a wadded
up ball of paper being declared to be "art".
Why is this wadded up ball of paper art when the one I just tossed in
the trash can is not? One possible answer is that both are in fact
art. The problem is that this leads to a profoundly uninteresting
definition of "art" as being pretty much everything. It also leads to
potentially embarrassing questions of why anyone would pay money for
art, if everything qualifies.
The answer that I have seen, apparently proffered in all seriousness,
is that the wadded up ball of paper is art because it is created by an
artist: not some schlub like me. So how does one attain the status
of "artist" such that one's office waste is art? Apparently be
declaring oneself to be an artist and having this status acknowledged
by other artists. The logical implications of this scheme are readily
apparent.
I try not to be a philistine or a reactionary. I cheerfully accept
non-representational art. Some of it I even like. But the art
community doesn't make it easy to avoid being a reactionary.
Richard R. Hershberger
Lee
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:52:17 -0800 (PST), "Tony Myerswww.sedatedape.com(A many splendored thing )" <sedated...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Nov 22, 10:36 am, M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net>
> >wrote:
> >> It has now been many weeks since anyone famous has died.
>
> >Are you just going to complain, or are you going to do something about
> >it?
>
> >All the Osmonds are still alive. I'm not telling you how to do your
> >buisness, but it might be a good place to start. And if you count all
> >of the second generation Osmonds it would be a project that could keep
> >you busy for months. Unless you tried to get them all at the same
> >time, like at a family reunion.
>
> > If you decide to kill them one by one Alan has multiple sclerosis,
> >according to wikipedia, He would probably be the easiest one to start
> >with. Save Donny for last - he's the only one that's a little bit rock
> >n' roll, so he would probably put up the biggest fight.
>
> I was going to say save Marie for last but I was thinking of how she
> looked 20-30 years ago. The years have not been kind to her.
>
> But Donny always was cuter...
>
> --
O no! I am usually sleepy eyed so I haven’t noticed beyond her hair
style. Will pay more attention! The odds that the plastic surgeon
and surgery will quit are close to zero.
For ANY reason. She needs to give that a rest.
As far as Donny, your speculation is probably accurate.
Boron Elgar
<rrh...@acme.com> wrote:
>On Nov 23, 4:48�pm, Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:25:44 -0500, "darkon" <darkon....@gmail.com>
>>
>> II try to be open about art and try not to go in to see something with
>> any preconceptions. Often, I try to avoid context and cultural
>> relevance before I view pieces, just to be grabbed by the pure visual
>> experience, but there are some things, some artists, who do little for
>> me.
>
>My approach is pretty much the opposite. I want all the context I can
>get. My personal taste in art runs a bit more old-fashioned that the
>stuff discussed in this thread. If, for example, I see a medieval
>painting of some guy with a halo and a bunch of arrows stuck in him,
>knowing it is St. Sebastian and knowing the story behind it is vital
>to understanding the piece.
My bad. I have the context for a lot of western art. Not bragging, as
I am not expert in all areas. It is Asian or African or sub-culture
stuff I have to wing.
And much of the contemporary things need no context. Like the Rothko
stuff that was mentioned. That is pure color and shape and needs no
context. And there is something to be said for even viewing a statue
of the Buddha for the pure awesome design of a particular piece,
without knowing why that particular one was created or known for. I
cannot do that with western art.
It is a very interesting point you have raised, though...does context
have to be known to really appreciate a work? Do you have to know, for
example, what the specific design on a piece of Native American
pottery represents within the culture to appreciate the beauty of it?
Can knowing context ever detract from visual appreciation of a piece?
Take many of the Annunciation or religious paintings...early on, I
just looked at them for what they were and knew the overall
background, (Oh, yeah, the arrows, or the wheel) but it wasn't till I
was in my late teens that I knew that practically every single object
in some sorts of these painting had a direct and traceable reference -
every flower and symbol means something by its inclusion.
>
>At the other end of the spectrum, the modern "is it art?" discussion
>seems to hinge entirely on context. Matters have been taken very
>nearly to their logical conclusion, with examples stuff like a wadded
>up ball of paper being declared to be "art".
Well, I'm broad minded in public, but I whisper "bullshit" quietly in
my husband's ear as we stroll along and we laugh a lot..
>
>Why is this wadded up ball of paper art when the one I just tossed in
>the trash can is not? One possible answer is that both are in fact
>art. The problem is that this leads to a profoundly uninteresting
>definition of "art" as being pretty much everything. It also leads to
>potentially embarrassing questions of why anyone would pay money for
>art, if everything qualifies.
Well, take a look on this page, which happens to have something by
Christo, but I really picked it for the Joseph Beuys chair about
quarter of the way down.
http://www.designboom.com/history/stilllife.html
The thing is a chair with a slab of fat on it. How could anyone call
it art, right? Except I really *like* Beuys. He was wild and wacky
and I cannot say I like it all, but I generally like his stuff.
>
>The answer that I have seen, apparently proffered in all seriousness,
>is that the wadded up ball of paper is art because it is created by an
>artist: not some schlub like me. So how does one attain the status
>of "artist" such that one's office waste is art? Apparently be
>declaring oneself to be an artist and having this status acknowledged
>by other artists. The logical implications of this scheme are readily
>apparent.
You didn't attend the right gallery openings or do drugs or sleep with
the right people - any or all in no particular order. That has to be
the answer.
>
>I try not to be a philistine or a reactionary. I cheerfully accept
>non-representational art. Some of it I even like. But the art
>community doesn't make it easy to avoid being a reactionary.
Stuff slips through. I do not know why, though.
I make my own calls as to what "art" is these days, and since I don't
have to do it professionally, it works quite well for me. I do not try
to make anyone else abide by it, if anything, I try to encourage an
open attitude of acceptance, but a wadded up ball of paper might be
all that is there.
Boron
Lee Ayrton
I will.
I'm just not actively planning on it.
Lee Ayrton
I used to have a lapel button that advised "Art is anything you can get
away with".
Dover Beach
>
> Well, I'm broad minded in public, but I whisper "bullshit" quietly in
> my husband's ear as we stroll along and we laugh a lot..
>>
I have considered joining this Facebook group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=43340404423
"DIA's Heinous Blue Mustang Has Got To Go"
--
Dover
QueBarbara
wrote:
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in
A statue so hideous it killed its creator? Oh hell yeah.
--
QueBarbara
Mark Steese
46af-890c-6...@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
[snip]
>> There is some truly annoying troll on rec.sport.baseballwho regularly
>> has posts titled "So and So last' words. The last words always are
>> supposed to include something to the effect that Pete Rose belongs in
>> the Hall of Fame.
>
> Is that what those posts are? I never bothered to open one. In any
> case, rec.sport.baseball is now a dead group. I wonder why he
> continues to make the effort.
Well, what else does he have to do while he sits around waiting to find out
if Selig will reinstate him?
--
Mark Steese
=======================================================================
PS: Your second question, you thought I forgot? I didn't. I never found the
banana slug. - William Least Heat-Moon
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in
Oh, poo-dinky! Not my style.
I have a neighbor who does critters in fiberglass and paints them
realistically. I have a life sized giraffe next door to my forsythia.
Don't ask.
Boron
Dover Beach
>
> I have a neighbor who does critters in fiberglass and paints them
> realistically. I have a life sized giraffe next door to my forsythia.
>
> Don't ask.
>
I'm not even sure what *to* ask. Maybe "Why hasn't your neighbor found
his life sized giraffe sticking head first down his chimney?"
--
Dover
Hieronymus Agricola
(in article <e59og5luo4qb81eib...@4ax.com>):
> I have a life-sized giraffe next door to my forsythia.
That's the banjo player's Porsche.
--
Jerry Randal Bauer
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in
Here it is. Trust me, the photo looks better than the reality. Its
creator is right there.
Some of her things are neat, actually, but I am not sure the front
and back yards here are the right places to display them. There has
been vandalism of some bears she had in the front yard. I felt that
destruction was cowardly and mean.
She's a nice woman.
Boron
Boron Elgar
<use...@bauerstar.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:25:18 -0700, Boron Elgar wrote
>(in article <e59og5luo4qb81eib...@4ax.com>):
>
>> I have a life-sized giraffe next door to my forsythia.
>
>That's the banjo player's Porsche.
Got a laugh out of me.
Boron
Dover Beach
>
>
> Here it is. Trust me, the photo looks better than the reality. Its
> creator is right there.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ygx4csv
Oh. All righty.
>
> Some of her things are neat, actually, but I am not sure the front
> and back yards here are the right places to display them. There has
> been vandalism of some bears she had in the front yard. I felt that
> destruction was cowardly and mean.
>
> She's a nice woman.
>
She would have to be.
--
Dover
huey.c...@gmail.com
> Boron Elgar <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I have a neighbor who does critters in fiberglass and paints them
> > realistically. I have a life sized giraffe next door to my
> > forsythia.
> >
> > Don't ask.
> I'm not even sure what *to* ask. Maybe "Why hasn't your neighbor
> found his life sized giraffe sticking head first down his chimney?"
Every year around Christmas, in Lombard, Illinois, there exists a family
home that sports upwards of a hundred large plastic lawn ornaments.
These are the big 4'-to-6' tall plastic santas and snowmen, all of which
have lightbulbs inside them. At night, it looks like an army of plastic
christmas decorations guarding a suburban home.
And every time I drive by this particular house, I can't help but think
"I have a sword, a video camera, and a strange sense of humor". Every
time, I mention this to someone.
And every year, at least one of my friends suggests that we really
SHOULD re-enact the climactic battle scenes from Braveheart on a
suburban Chicagoland street, using only Huey and some plastic lawn
ornaments. And I believe the bidding for "bail Huey and accomplices out
of jail" is up to $1000 at this point.
And y'know, that might be enough money, but I think we probably need
better cameras. Do any of you hollywood types know somebody around
Chicago that would let us use a couple steadicams for an afternoon?
--
Huey "FREEDOM!" Callison
Bill Turlock
Nuh uh!
Bob E.
> NYC is full of Rothkos and I have been very fortunate to see them. His
> bright color block paintings are great and I go out of my way to find
> them in any city I visit. I do like almost all of them, too.
>
> Is this the one you mean?
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_obvQUTP1ifY/R1etBzMsnFI/AAAAAAAAAKI/_KJ6ndAzyb4/s400/Mark-Rothko-No-14-1960-7893.jpg
> http://tinyurl.com/ldsebb
Oooh, yes. That's it...
> I used to have a poster of one of his paintings one hanging in my
> office. As the time grew closer to his suicide, the colors of these
> wonderful works went from bright, almost sunny at a times, to darker
> and more muddy and well into browns. The later paintings do not have
> the aesthetic appeal of the earlier ones and can be depressing.
This one is utterly fascinating and a little bit scary.
--Bob
Bob E.
Fer cryin' out loud, it's in the SFMOMA collection! Not on view at the
moment, however...I'll have to keep an eye on this:
http://www.sfmoma.org/artwork/22031
(maybe it's stalking me...)
--Bob
Bill Turlock
M C Hamster
<snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 23, 11:29�pm, M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net>
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:30:02 -0800 (PST), Snidely
>>
>> <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Nov 22, 8:47�am, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Nov 22, 8:36�am, M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> > And if and when the dry spell breaks, it's sure going to be something
>> >> > fearsome to see.
>>
>> >> It's been a while, but I seem to recall that someone famous died on
>> >> this date. �Now where was I?
>>
>> >Perhaps I was too sub tull. �A textbook case.
>>
>> Schoolbooks, not textbooks.
>
>The difference is elementary?
>
At some point this past Sunday, it did dawn on me that it was
November 22, and I didn't hear a single mention of it on the news.
Maybe it's only going to be for anniversaries ending in 5 or 0.
In another 4 years, it'll be the 50th anniversary, and I imagine it
will be on the news then.
--
M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
M C Hamster
<bil...@skipthis.shaw.ca> wrote:
>In article <4B0B8F86...@sonnnic.invalid>,
> Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock "@sonnnic.invalid> wrote:
>
>> M C Hamster wrote:
>> >
>> > On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:52:17 -0800 (PST), "Tony Myers
>> > www.sedatedape.com (A many splendored thing )" <sedat...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Nov 22, 10:36 am, M C Hamster <davol...@nospam.speakeasy.net>
>> > >wrote:
>> > >> It has now been many weeks since anyone famous has died.
>> > >
>> > >Are you just going to complain, or are you going to do something about
>> > >it?
>> > >
>> > >All the Osmonds are still alive. I'm not telling you how to do your
>> > >buisness, but it might be a good place to start. And if you count all
>> > >of the second generation Osmonds it would be a project that could keep
>> > >you busy for months. Unless you tried to get them all at the same
>> > >time, like at a family reunion.
>> > >
>> > > If you decide to kill them one by one Alan has multiple sclerosis,
>> > >according to wikipedia, He would probably be the easiest one to start
>> > >with. Save Donny for last - he's the only one that's a little bit rock
>> > >n' roll, so he would probably put up the biggest fight.
>> >
>> > I have a photograph of Donny Osmond sitting on my bookcase shelf.
>> > Really.
>>
>> What was Donny Osmond doing in your pajamas anyway?
>
>I don't know, but MC should have shot 'im.
I had the chance many times, during the year my 9 year old daughter
performed with him on stage in the Chicago Theater.
Actually I did shoot him several times, but only with a clandestine
video camera.
M C Hamster
wrote:
>
>I will.
>
>
>
>
>I'm just not actively planning on it.
>
>
Don't feel obligated, on my behalf.
Snidely
wrote:
> At some point this past Sunday, it did dawn on me that it was
> November 22, and I didn't hear a single mention of it on the news.
> Maybe it's only going to be for anniversaries ending in 5 or 0.
Did you listen to an all-news radio station?
> In another 4 years, it'll be the 50th anniversary, and I imagine it
> will be on the news then.
This is the 46th anniversary. He logged only 46 natal anniversaries.
/dps
Snidely
> >Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote in with
>
> >> I have a neighbor who does critters in fiberglass and paints them
> >> realistically. I have a life sized giraffe next door to my forsythia.
> Here it is. Trust me, the photo looks better than the reality. Its
> creator is right there.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ygx4csv
I used to walk to school past a house where lived a sculptor. He used
his torch to cut up bumpers (the ones that predate 3 or 5 mph
requirements -- just chromed steel) and then welded them into ....
My memory says that the one in the front yard was tree.
/dps
Boron Elgar
Was his stuff good?
>
>/dps
I confess that TH's art works are in our front yard, but they are
nestled into the shrubbery and are more ours to see than any
passersby. You'd be hard put to even find them at this moment before
the final leaf bagging. We have two stainless sculptures out there,
one that lies flat on the ground the other that rises no more than a
foot.
I am probably suffering from extreme snobbery. If the critters the
neighbor made were fabulous, I'd never make a peep.
I live in an area where there is a lot of stone sculpture littering
front and back yards...fountains, saints, stone angels. Whoo-yah.
Boron
Richard R. Hershberger
> On 24 Nov 2009 18:33:54 GMT, Dover Beach <moon.blanc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >news:e59og5luo4qb81eib...@4ax.com:
>
> >> I have a neighbor who does critters in fiberglass and paints them
> >> realistically. I have a life sized giraffe next door to my forsythia.
>
> >> Don't ask.
>
> >I'm not even sure what *to* ask. Maybe "Why hasn't your neighbor found
> >his life sized giraffe sticking head first down his chimney?"
>
> Here it is. Trust me, the photo looks better than the reality. Its
> creator is right there.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ygx4csv
>
> Some of her things are neat, actually, but I am not sure the front
> and back yards here are the right places to display them. There has
> been vandalism of some bears she had in the front yard. I felt that
> destruction was cowardly and mean.
>
> She's a nice woman.
Check out http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/arts/bal-art-car-pg,0,7497799.photogallery
The guy shown in number 4 is a member of my church. There is never
any doubt driving into the parking lot whether or not he is there.
Boron Elgar
>On Nov 24, 2:32�pm, Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>
>> Here it is. Trust me, the photo looks better than the reality. Its
>> creator is right there.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ygx4csv
>>
>> Some of her things are neat, actually, �but I am not sure the front
>> and back yards here are the right places to display them. There has
>> been vandalism of some bears she had in the front yard. I felt that
>> destruction was cowardly and mean.
>>
>> She's a nice woman.
>
>Check out http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/arts/bal-art-car-pg,0,7497799.photogallery
>
>The guy shown in number 4 is a member of my church. There is never
>any doubt driving into the parking lot whether or not he is there.
And I bet he can always find his car in *any* parking lot.
Boron
Bill Turlock
Lots like that around here, esp in Berkeley.
Snidely
> Check outhttp://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/arts/bal-art-car-pg,0,74977...
The sidebar on that led me to an answer to MC's original question:
<quote>
November 24, 2009
Musicologist HC Robbins Landon dies at 83
There are reports in Tuesday's British press of the death on Nov. 20
of HC Robbins Landon, an extraordinary, American-born musicologist who
had a great deal to do with major re-evaluations of Haydn and Mozart.
He was 83.
Mr. Landon's books enjoyed global popularity, especially a series on
Mozart that helped out to rest various myths about the composer's
death. Although he fell for a scam in the 1990s involving supposedly
long-lost Haydn sonatas, Mr. Landon's reputation as a scholar remained
secure.
Informative appreciations are in the Telegraph and Guardian.
Posted by Tim Smith at 1:51 PM
</quote>
<http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/classicalmusic/2009/11/
musicologist_hc_robbins_landon.html?
utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A
+classicalmusic_blog+%28Clef+Notes%29>
or <http://preview.tinyurl.com/yff2sfg>
/dps
Lee
I wonder how easy it would be to sell a house with such unusual
artwork? And wonder if you can get title insurance on these artistic
houses?
Snidely
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:31:32 -0800 (PST), Snidely
>
> >his torch to cut up bumpers (the ones that predate 3 or 5 mph
> >requirements -- just chromed steel) and then welded them into ....
>
> >My memory says that the one in the front yard was tree.
("a tree")
>
> Was his stuff good?
>
Hard for me to say. I think he wanted to be known as an abstract
artist, and I probably had no clue. I didn't see much besides the
"tree", although sections of stuff would get dragged into view from
time to time. Nothing as oppressive as Henry Miller, at least.
/dps