Derek Bailey on Zoot Horn and Zappa
Alastair Dickson
the Dec 98 issue of The Wire (Portishead on the cover). His preference
for non-pre-composed music is clear throughout, with far less engagement
with the individual records than usual in that kind of feature. Anyway,
he's played "One Red Rose That I Mean":
"See what I mean about tuning? It's a problem with the guitar. It's a
written piece, isn't it? Who is it?
-It's Bill Harkleroad, Zoot Horn Rollo, playng what Captain Beefheart
wrote for him.
One of the problems I have listening to music - or not so much listening
to music as discussing it - is the 1955/56 break. To you chaps there is
no music before 1955 except classical music. There was a kind of jazz
player, a guy called George Van Eps, played seven string guitar (...) he
had that type of solo playing off to such a degree, this self
accompaniment thing, with chords and bass, a bit of melody here and
there, this guy was terrific at it. (...) The idea that there might be
any aesthetic quality - either there or sacrificed - is totally beside
the point, the fact that the guy can *do* this is like riding four
horses at once!"
Later he's played Zappa's "While You Were Out":
- I played a tape of you and John Stevens to Frank, so I thought I
should reciprocate.
"Well, I'm not the kind of prick Frank was, so I'm not going to take the
opportunity to throw a few gratuitous insults about! [Zappa's comment on
the Bailey Stevens duo was "It sounds to me like the music I wrote for
Lumpy Gravy ... improvised by me with a guitar in one hand and playing
drums with the other"] Yes it's OK. (...) As I say, I sometimes wonder
if it's completely impossible to get the guiar in tune, although Jim
Hall does a very good job of it."
-- Alastair Dickson, Stirling, Scotland
-- <adic...@stirmargrev.demon.co.uk>
MDec500157
>From: Alastair Dickson <adic...@stirmargrev.demon.co.uk>
>Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 17:16 EST
>Message-id: <bjIfJCAx...@stirmargrev.demon.co.uk>
Very interesting. Thanks for posting it. I opened for Bailey in Detroit, and he
said he came in late but heard some of what I was doing and he liked it. Now I
wonder if he was sincere. LOL! Well, he seemed like a nice enough chap. I was
using a lot of effects and told him I though of effects as seperate instuments.
Hmmm....
Mike
Michael H.
recordings or Zoot's performance, given that he recorded with Henry
Kaiser.
Another thing that surprised me is that it is well-known that the
well-tempered scale never does sound perfectly in tune, and Bailey
should have been aware of that. A guitar with perfect intonation (i..e.
harmonic at 12th fret = fretted note at 12th fret) and tuned perfectly
using a tuner, with brand new flawless strings, will nevertheless sound
slightly out of tune. It is the pitch clashes in the higher harmonics of
the strings that create the out-of-tuneness sound, so it is less
noticable with a soft bassy jazz tone like Jim Hall's than with a
stinging rock tone that includes those highs. That is very basic
beginner-guitarist stuff, so Bailey's comments were quite surprising.
Personally, I have never noticed any out-of-tuneness in Peon. It just
is what it is, and it is amazing both as a composition and a
performance.
I think that if one were to digitally record Lick My Decals Off, Baby,
and then use one of those state-of-the-art digital audio packages to
tweek every note into some sort of ideal pitch, and perhaps quantize all
the drum parts to make them sound like a drum machine, and also quantize
every other part to make it sound absolutely scientifically "perfect"
that it would totally wreck it. It would be like using Photoshop to
"clean up" the "sloppy parts" in a Van Gogh painting. This is what they
do with all the MTV type of songs.
I have encountered people who do think that all guitarists suffer from
a learning disability re tuning, and display almost a contempt for all
guitarists for that reason, and I have always considered such people to
be totally ignorant of the basic facts of tuning, and totally ignorant
of the fact that stringed instruments generally have more highs than
other instruments. The problem can be circumvented with the piano by
having multiple-strings for each key, and sax and violin players can
mask the problem using a vibrato to warble around the exact note and let
the ear take care of hearing the implied pitch.
Michael H.
Brian Olewnick
>MDec500157 wrote:
>> >There's an interesting Invisible Jukebox feature with Derek Bailey in
>> >the Dec 98 issue of The Wire (Portishead on the cover).
Just read this. Absolutely fascinating points of view (CB references
aside). His problem with recordings and his idea of perhaps only
listening, on record, to a piece of music _once_, thereby
concentrating your focus to an enormous degree, is wonderful (though
I'd be the first to admit, impossible to imagine myself practising).
Great, deep, cantankerous musings by the world's greatest, deepest,
most cantankerous guitarist.
Brian Olewnick
(who ranks Bailey's 'Takes Fakes and Dead She Dances' as the finest
release of 1998)
Alastair Dickson
guitarist George Van Eps who Bailey mentioned in the part of the
interview which I quoted.
I regret that I've never (knowingly) heard Van Eps' playing, but it's
noticeable that he sounds much less interesting in the obituary than in
Bailey's description of his work. Maybe that's just down to what Bailey
found in the detail of his playing, or maybe Bailey had heard some non-
mainstream playing which was outside the main run of Van Eps' career?
Temblor8
Alastair:
The Rough Guide on jazz has a fairly nice entry on George Van Eps. Right now,
I'm on my way out the door to catch a plane, so I don't have time to copy it
down for you (besides, I've gotten pretty lazy about that stuff lately). The
piece does mention his additional 7th bass string on his guitar. I'd suggest
running a search on the 2000+ entries for Rough Guides and see if they have
some of the jazz stuff on the Net. Don't have time to do it myself. Hey, I
gotta go! Hawaii waits...
Later, Gary Marker
MDec500157
>From: ole...@tribeca.ios.com (Brian Olewnick)
>Date: Mon, Dec 7, 1998 19:56 EST
>>MDec500157 wrote:
>
>>> >There's an interesting Invisible Jukebox feature with Derek Bailey in
>>> >the Dec 98 issue of The Wire (Portishead on the cover).
I didn't write that, but that's OK. I said that I opened for him in Detroit
(toot, toot!)
>Just read this. Absolutely fascinating points of view (CB references
>aside). His problem with recordings and his idea of perhaps only
>listening, on record, to a piece of music _once_, thereby
>concentrating your focus to an enormous degree, is wonderful (though
>I'd be the first to admit, impossible to imagine myself practising).
>
>Great, deep, cantankerous musings by the world's greatest, deepest,
>most cantankerous guitarist.
>
>Brian Olewnick
>(who ranks Bailey's 'Takes Fakes and Dead She Dances' as the finest
>release of 1998)
I also subscribed to a similar philosophy, which I attributed to AMM, regarding
my improv. You play it live, and it's gone. Hence, I haven't got tapes of most
of my gigs. I now regret that. A tape of our openening duet (w/ Matt Smith)
does exist, but Matt's tape recorder freaked out and the tape speed went mad.
It was one of our better performances, too.
Mike
Michael H.
>
> I notice in today's "Independent" an obituary by Steve Voce for the
> guitarist George Van Eps who Bailey mentioned in the part of the
> interview which I quoted.
>
> I regret that I've never (knowingly) heard Van Eps' playing, but it's
> noticeable that he sounds much less interesting in the obituary than in
> Bailey's description of his work. Maybe that's just down to what Bailey
> found in the detail of his playing, or maybe Bailey had heard some non-
> mainstream playing which was outside the main run of Van Eps' career?
I actually never heard Van Epps, but that is sad news. When I was a
kid, I took guitar lessons from a jazz player named Benny Johnson, who
had been a local phenomenon in Montreal in his youth, and had played
with pianist Oscar Peterson's group for a while, but at the time it was
difficult for an all-black jazz group from Canada to try to break into
New York, so Peterson's business people allegedly encouraged him to put
together a "mixed group." I know that guitarist Herb Ellis, another of
my favorite players from that era (who I saw perform a few years ago)
was in Peterson's group at one point. I know that quite a few stylistic
elitists don't like Peterson...whether it's because he didn't grow up in
one of the US jazz scenes or whether his Art Tatum influenced style was
considered out-moded once Monk et al appeared on the scene, I don't
know.
In any case, Benny gave me a Van Epps guitar book, which I still have.
The essence of that book was to learn to play the scales harmonized
(three-note-chords)...e.g. C Major, D minor, E minor, etc., for a C
Major scale, learn them in all positions, then play different
arpeggiated versions. Also, playing transitions from one chord to
another while having a single melody line embedded with passing tones.
The book also went into the same sorts of things based on the minor
scales, diminished, etc., so it was very thorough. There are interesting
and complicated Van Epps compositions based on those techniques towards
the end of the book, but I only got about half way through the book
because it didn't apply at all to what I wanted to play at the time, but
anyone wanting to do some thorough jazz "woodshedding" should try to
find that book, since it was so highly recommended by excellent jazz
players. Interesting that Bailey should mention Van Epps.
So on my next trip to the record store, I will look for a Van Epps
record. I might as well get a Bailey record also...I heard a record of
his many years ago and it didn't appeal to me that much because it
seemed too experimental and anti-thematic for my tastes at the time, but
I ought to give it a listen. I have so many new CDs now, and there are
only so many hours to listen.
Michael H.
Alastair Dickson
>I notice in today's "Independent" an obituary by Steve Voce for the
>guitarist George Van Eps who Bailey mentioned in the part of the
>interview which I quoted.
Steve Voce has posted his obituary to rec.music.bluenote as message
<ww+wgEAT...@jazmusic.demon.co.uk>.
Angela J.
On Wednesday, December 9, 1998 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Michael H. wrote:
> >
> > I notice in today's "Independent" an obituary by Steve Voce for the
> > guitarist George Van Eps who Bailey mentioned in the part of the
> > interview which I quoted.
> >