Historical Format Question
Elan Kia
When did the daily radio show change from a call-in format to a
near-monologue, was it 1995, 1996? I have not had the pleasure of
hearing the show in a long time. I think it may have been taken off of
its Peoria A.M.(daylight only) station shortly after the format change.
Elan Kia "Ora et labora."
Groove to the FUNK on the web, check out The Outsiders homepage
<www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/3833/>
"The Shooter" Chad Bryant
Elan Kia wrote:
>
> When did the daily radio show change from a call-in format to a
> near-monologue, was it 1995, 1996? I have not had the pleasure of
> hearing the show in a long time. I think it may have been taken off of
> its Peoria A.M.(daylight only) station shortly after the format change.
I got through to talk to Bob the day the O.J. verdict was announced (Bob
hung up on me), so it had to have been very late in '95 or sometime in
'96.
BTW, where I used to live (Bakersfield, CA) is one of Bob's last
strongholds, probably because there's nothing else that can be put on in
his place. Christian radio is in such decay in Bakersfield that the big
FM station there (KHIS 96.5) was sold and went to a jazz format. The
Christian radio people there are jerks, too.
--
"The Shooter" Chad Bryant
cbry...@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/9874/index.html
"Knowledge is good."- Emil Faber
"Anyone out there stopped to think what our lives might be like
today if Karl Marx was as good a salesman as Walt Disney?"
-Jello Biafra
"I faced it all, and I stood tall, and did it my way"
-Frank Sinatra, 1915-1998
Ranger57
Elan Kia wrote:
>
> When did the daily radio show change from a call-in format to a
> near-monologue, was it 1995, 1996?
1995. He went back to the old format nine months later, after the
monologue format proved to be a total flop.
> I have not had the pleasure of
> hearing the show in a long time. I think it may have been taken off of
> its Peoria A.M.(daylight only) station shortly after the format change.
Correctumundo. But Bob went off the air in Peoria after his road show
only drew some 150 people. :)
Ranger57
All:
I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
Rev. Dr. Tim, McC, BsD
What about Benny Hinn? Wasn't he exposed for healing shills he'd planted in
his audience? I've also heard that he has a meth lab hidden in his hair.
--
Rev. Dr. Tim, McC, BsD
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>rk: tim, there's no kind way to put this. Your energy reveals you to
>be no more than a mean spirited, petty, prideful, run-of-the-mill
>bullshitter!
Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
> All:
>
> I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
> Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
> other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
Yep, Peter Popoff. Exposed by The Amazing Randi as a FRAUD on the Tonight Show.
--
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
"Gadzooks!", quoth I, "But here's a saucy bawd!"
I, Libertine
by Fredrick R. Ewing
<A HREF="HTTP://WWW.GIS.NET/~CHT"/A>
ShamelessSeamus
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 22:53:34 -0400, c...@NOSPAMgis.net (Rev. Jihad Frenzy) wrote:
>In article <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>, Rang...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>> All:
>>
>> I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
>> Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
>> other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
>
>Yep, Peter Popoff. Exposed by The Amazing Randi as a FRAUD on the Tonight Show.
you are a moron. to be exposed as a fraud, you'd have to claim the ability to
do something... which the amazing randi doesn't do... all he does is expose
charlatans. & how does he do that? by duplicating their tricks. no fraud.
rev, you've obviously had your nose up jeeezez' ass for too damn long..
& the fumes seem to have gotten to you
J. Northwood
On 20 Jun 1998 00:24:41 EDT, Shamele...@sod.com (ShamelessSeamus)
wrote:
>you are a moron. to be exposed as a fraud, you'd have to claim the ability to
>do something... which the amazing randi doesn't do... all he does is expose
>charlatans. & how does he do that? by duplicating their tricks. no fraud.
Seamus, he's saying that Randi _exposed_ Popoff.
Pee Kitty
In alt.slack ShamelessSeamus <Shamele...@sod.com> wrote:
>>
>>Yep, Peter Popoff. Exposed by The Amazing Randi as a FRAUD on the Tonight Show.
> you are a moron. to be exposed as a fraud, you'd have to claim the ability to
> do something... which the amazing randi doesn't do... all he does is expose
> charlatans. & how does he do that? by duplicating their tricks. no fraud.
My word...you are just an incredibly stupid person, aren't you?
Jihad said that RANDI EXPOSED POPOFF...not that RANDI WAS EXPOSED. I'd say
you made a simple mistake, but the two are so vastly different...no, no,
you must simply be a dumbass. I'm sorry.
--
Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian
Meow!
| "Fuck 'Em If They Can't Take A Joke is more than just a meaningless |
| slogan; it's actually a pretty serious statement, and one that I hold |
| true to, with a cream pie in one hand and a chainsaw in the other..." |
| -- Me |
yard Man
Pee Kitty <Pki...@mariner.cris.com> wrote:
>In alt.slack ShamelessSeamus <Shamele...@sod.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Yep, Peter Popoff. Exposed by The Amazing Randi as a FRAUD on the Tonight Show.
>
>> you are a moron. to be exposed as a fraud, you'd have to claim the ability to
>> do something... which the amazing randi doesn't do... all he does is expose
>> charlatans. & how does he do that? by duplicating their tricks. no fraud.
>
>My word...you are just an incredibly stupid person, aren't you?
>
>Jihad said that RANDI EXPOSED POPOFF...not that RANDI WAS EXPOSED. I'd say
>you made a simple mistake, but the two are so vastly different...no, no,
>you must simply be a dumbass. I'm sorry.
yer all fucked in the head. Randi exposed himself to Carson, then Ed
McMahon Pulled his Pudoff. I SEEN IT.
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
In article <358d381d...@news.concentric.net>, Shamele...@sod.com
wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 22:53:34 -0400, c...@NOSPAMgis.net (Rev. Jihad Frenzy)
wrote:
>
> >In article <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>, Rang...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >
> >> All:
> >>
> >> I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
> >> Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
> >> other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
> >
> >Yep, Peter Popoff. Exposed by The Amazing Randi as a FRAUD on the
Tonight Show.
> you are a moron. to be exposed as a fraud, you'd have to claim the ability to
> do something... which the amazing randi doesn't do... all he does is expose
> charlatans. & how does he do that? by duplicating their tricks. no fraud.
>
> rev, you've obviously had your nose up jeeezez' ass for too damn long..
> & the fumes seem to have gotten to you
What, I say, WHAT the fuck are you ON? And where can I buy some?
It was Popoff who was shown as a fraud, not Randi.
Popoff was claiming that God was all the time whispering in his ear about
who was sick and who needed healing in his audiences.
Turns out that the "word of knowledge" spoken in his ear came from his
wife, not God, via an FM transmitter. She was reading from cards the marks
had filled out before the show.
Randi and his crew had a scanner in the audience and were searching for the
frequency. They found it and taped it. Then off to the Tonight Show and
down the chute for Popoff, who's know clipping the marks on BET.
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
In article <6mfo5f$a...@examiner.concentric.net>, Pee Kitty
<Pki...@mariner.cris.com> wrote:
> In alt.slack ShamelessSeamus <Shamele...@sod.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Yep, Peter Popoff. Exposed by The Amazing Randi as a FRAUD on the
Tonight Show.
>
> > you are a moron. to be exposed as a fraud, you'd have to claim the
ability to
> > do something... which the amazing randi doesn't do... all he does is expose
> > charlatans. & how does he do that? by duplicating their tricks. no fraud.
>
> My word...you are just an incredibly stupid person, aren't you?
>
> Jihad said that RANDI EXPOSED POPOFF...not that RANDI WAS EXPOSED. I'd say
> you made a simple mistake, but the two are so vastly different...no, no,
> you must simply be a dumbass. I'm sorry.
>
My dear Rev. Kitty:
Thank you for your cogent analisys of Seamus.
Breathtaking in its insight and depth, as well as commendable for its
brevity and accessability to the laity.
Your Brother in Dobbs,
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
Former Pope of All Vermont and Missionary to the Heathen Abenaki of the
Lesser Atlantic northeast and the dominions of Canada, Minister to the
Greater, Lesser and Common Incest Mutants of Vermont, With Special
Authority and Dispensation for Genetic Clensing of the Pesthole known to
the General Public as Rutland, Vermont.
David Barnett
Ken:
Got anything on James Dobson or what about (and now I'm really dating
myself) Hal Lindsey?
Dave
Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
satyr
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998 11:11:47 -0600, "David Barnett"
<drd...@airmail.net> wrote:
>Ken:
>Got anything on James Dobson or what about (and now I'm really dating
>myself) Hal Lindsey?
>
>Dave
>Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
Did Lindsey ever have a TV show? I did actually read his book (Late
Great Planet Earth) a few years ago. Armageddon was already past due
by then but we are still waiting. Isn't Hal worried about God?
Shouldn't we send someone to see if he slipped in the bathroom or
something?
Hiestzie
>Did Lindsey ever have a TV show?
Hal did not have a regular TV series, but he had specials about the coming
end times. If I recall correctly, those specials ran in the late 70's.
Hal apparently made his money and tired of the gloom and doom circuit.
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
Rev. Jihad Frenzy (c...@NOSPAMgis.net) wrote:
: In article <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>, Rang...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: > All:
: >
: > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
: > Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
: > other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
: Yep, Peter Popoff. Exposed by The Amazing Randi as a FRAUD on the Tonight Show.
Was it Popoff or Oral Roberts that was selling Annointing Holy Oil or
somesuch that turned out to be salad dressing?
tim gueguen 101867
ShamelessSeamus
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998 07:06:42 GMT, jmno...@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
wrote:
>On 20 Jun 1998 00:24:41 EDT, Shamele...@sod.com (ShamelessSeamus)
>wrote:
>
>>you are a moron. to be exposed as a fraud, you'd have to claim the ability to
>>do something... which the amazing randi doesn't do... all he does is expose
>>charlatans. & how does he do that? by duplicating their tricks. no fraud.
>
>Seamus, he's saying that Randi _exposed_ Popoff.
oh well, i mis-read it
big fucking deal
MoeMcAl
>you are a moron. to be exposed as a fraud, you'd have to claim the ability
>to
>do something... which the amazing randi doesn't do... all he does is expose
>charlatans. & how does he do that? by duplicating their tricks. no fraud.
>
>rev, you've obviously had your nose up jeeezez' ass for too damn long..
>& the fumes seem to have gotten to you
Well Randi for the record on Carson's show played a tape of Popoff doing his
tricks and with the tape we hear Popoff's wife TELLING PP via the "hearing aid"
in PP's ear what each target had said or written down for the crusade people.
Also teh same team exposed the fraud of "miracle healing" by having a male
p[oseas a female "cured" of ovarian cancer!
Maureen AKA Born Again Pagan
ConquestOH
>RsEaM...@infidels.org (satyr) wrote:
>Did Lindsey ever have a TV show?
He has one now: "Intelligence Briefing" - one of TBN's more popular programs
featuring running commentary on black helicopters....
> Armageddon was already past due
>by then but we are still waiting.
I recently broadcast a program on eschatology, subtitled, "98 reasons why
prophecy practitioners will be wrong in '98". I've received quite a few calls
about - positive, believe it or not.
As far as having any "dirt on Lindsey," well, he did pull a Larson a few years
back by leaving his wife for a younger, more attractive secretary.....at least
that's what he's trying to hide anyway.
Ron
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Talk is cheap. Get involved.
http://www.bitsmart.com/watchdogs
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
: Hal did not have a regular TV series, but he had specials about the coming
: end times. If I recall correctly, those specials ran in the late 70's.
: Hal apparently made his money and tired of the gloom and doom circuit.
In fact I think there was a film version of The Late Great Planet Earth
made in the mid or late 70s. I seem to remember it being made by the
same company that produced films on pseudoscience type topics such as
the Bermuda Triangle and UFOs.
tim gueguen 101867
John Hattan
conqu...@aol.com (ConquestOH) wrote:
>>RsEaM...@infidels.org (satyr) wrote:
>
>>Did Lindsey ever have a TV show?
>
>He has one now: "Intelligence Briefing" - one of TBN's more popular
>programs featuring running commentary on black helicopters....
Ironically enough, it's on Thursday night at 7:30 --Bob Larson's
original time slot!
>> Armageddon was already past due by then but we are still waiting.
>
>I recently broadcast a program on eschatology, subtitled, "98 reasons why
>prophecy practitioners will be wrong in '98".
Hmm, I think you need to spend a day in The Bob Larson School of Asinine
Addled Alliteration. You had a good start with the P's there, but you
didn't take it to the Larsonesque extreme. How about.
Prophesy Practitioners Provide Poor Predictions-a-Plenty!
Now THAT'S a Larson-approved show-title!
>I've received quite a few calls about - positive, believe it or not.
>
>As far as having any "dirt on Lindsey," well, he did pull a Larson a few years
>back by leaving his wife for a younger, more attractive secretary.....at least
>that's what he's trying to hide anyway.
Jeez, I need to get myself a secretary!
---
John Hattan High UberPopeness -The First Church of Shatnerology
The Code Zone Sweet Software for a Saturnine World
hat...@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~hattan/
John Hattan
ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (TIMOTHY GUEGUEN) wrote:
>Hiestzie (hies...@aol.com) wrote:
>: >Did Lindsey ever have a TV show?
>
>: Hal did not have a regular TV series, but he had specials about the coming
>: end times. If I recall correctly, those specials ran in the late 70's.
>: Hal apparently made his money and tired of the gloom and doom circuit.
>In fact I think there was a film version of The Late Great Planet Earth
>made in the mid or late 70s.
Yep. I remember my dad having to calm my fears that killer bees weren't
gonna wipe out humanity.
>I seem to remember it being made by the
>same company that produced films on pseudoscience type topics such as
>the Bermuda Triangle and UFOs.
Sun Pictures. They had their fingers in most of those cheap conspiracy
documentaries in the 70's, like "The Search for Noah's Ark", "The
Lincoln Conspiracy", "Bigfoot, the Mysterious Monster", and "The Bermuda
Triangle".
They eventually worked into equally conspiratorial dramas in the 80's. I
believe they did "Hangar 18" and "Earthbound", two awful gimmick films
that were put out with the spin that they really happened.
"Can you prove it didn't happen?"
--Criswell, "Plan 9 From Outer Space"
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article
<03D701CD0713746A.DE6E5930...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>, hat...@fastlane.net wrote:
>
> ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (TIMOTHY GUEGUEN) wrote:
>
> >Hiestzie (hies...@aol.com) wrote:
> >: >Did Lindsey ever have a TV show?
> >
Hey. Hal still has a tv show. Its on TBN. Its some kind of news show based
on how current events in the news relate to end times.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
paragon
se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
> In article <35915d6a...@news.c-com.net>,
> k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
> >
> > e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >
> > >> My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
> > >> of his supposed grand conspiracy.
> > >>
> > >If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
> > >Benny.
> >
> > Or Jesus.
> >
> You obviously dont know Jesus.
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Who in the world are you to judge, where do you claim to get your
authority?
Perhaps you claim to get it from scripture. Hardly an acceptable claim
- since scripture, by its lack of internal tangency, prophetic
fulfillment and historical accuracy proves itself NOT to be the divine
word of God, but rather a sacred text based on the early development of
(NT) the Christian wisdom tradition and (OT) the Jewish wisdom
tradition. This in no way means that it is without value - but it is
certainly not the vessel of God's empowerment of judges for the endof
the 2nd millenia.
And if you don't claim to get it from scripture, then where do you claim
to get it?
Regards,
Reyn
Keith E. Young
I'd like to nominate Earnest Angely...Not only does he bilk unaware
Africans out of their money with his foreign trips, but he also performs
his "healings" practically in my back yard! I know he's on in more states
than Ohio, but I'm not sure if he's national. The toupee alone should get
him inducted.
--
-Keith Young
Jeffrey Quick
In article <6mncm5$slu$1...@usenet.kent.edu>, kyo...@f1n06.kent.edu (Keith E.
Young) wrote:
Ernie's comical all right, but I think we need some good evidence that
he's a crook (I mean, besides the fact that he's a televangelist...let's
get objective here.).
D.L. Scott
Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
>All:
>
> I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
>Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
>other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
>
Great web page!
The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
As a Christian, I am ashamed of ALL of those charlatans.
In God's Peace,
Deni Scott
ems...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6mr1em$eup$1...@dropit.pgh.net>,
My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
of his supposed grand conspiracy.
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article <6mrdgn$tp0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
ems...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <6mr1em$eup$1...@dropit.pgh.net>,
> "D.L. Scott" <dsc...@pgh.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
> > >All:
> > >
> > > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
> > >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
> > >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
> > >
> > Great web page!
> >
> > The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
> >
> > As a Christian, I am ashamed of ALL of those charlatans.
> >
> > In God's Peace,
> > Deni Scott
>
> My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
> of his supposed grand conspiracy.
>
Eric
se...@koyote.com
In article <6mrhg9$5ht$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> In article <6mrdgn$tp0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> ems...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > In article <6mr1em$eup$1...@dropit.pgh.net>,
> > "D.L. Scott" <dsc...@pgh.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
> > > >All:
> > > >
> > > > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
> > > >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
> > > >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
> > > >
> > > Great web page!
> > >
> > > The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
> > >
> > > As a Christian, I am ashamed of ALL of those charlatans.
> > >
> > > In God's Peace,
> > > Deni Scott
> >
> > My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
> > of his supposed grand conspiracy.
> >
> If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
> Benny. Or maybe it was psychosymantic(sp)?
>
> Eric
Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
Kennon Baird
e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>> My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
>> of his supposed grand conspiracy.
>>
>If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
>Benny.
Or Jesus.
ConquestOH
>> In article <6mr1em$eup$1...@dropit.pgh.net>,
>> "D.L. Scott" <dsc...@pgh.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
>> > >All:
>> > >
>> > > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
>> > >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
>> > >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
>> > >
>> > Great web page!
>> >
>> > The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
>> >
>> > As a Christian, I am ashamed of ALL of those charlatans.
>> >
>> > In God's Peace,
>> > Deni Scott
>>
>member
>> of his supposed grand conspiracy.
This being the case, I would suspect that you've contacted James Randi and will
be receiving your check for $1,000,000 any day now (10% of course you'll send
to Hinn, I assume). If you don't mind, what was she healed of? And how
much did she put in the offering buckets?
If she was healed, it was in spite of Hinn, not because of him. Hinn is a
heretic. Period.
eas...@redriverok.com
> "D.L. Scott" <dsc...@pgh.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
> > >All:
> > >
> > > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
> > >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
> > >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
> > >
> > Great web page!
> >
> > The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
> >
> > As a Christian, I am ashamed of ALL of those charlatans.
> >
> > In God's Peace,
> > Deni Scott
>
> My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
> of his supposed grand conspiracy.
>
tony...@post6.tele.dk
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:46:08 GMT, se...@koyote.com wrote:
>In article <6mrhg9$5ht$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>>
>> In article <6mrdgn$tp0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
>> ems...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>> >
>> > In article <6mr1em$eup$1...@dropit.pgh.net>,
>> > "D.L. Scott" <dsc...@pgh.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
>> > > >All:
>> > > >
>> > > > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
>> > > >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
>> > > >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
>> > > >
>> > > Great web page!
>> > >
>> > > The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
>> > >
>> > > As a Christian, I am ashamed of ALL of those charlatans.
>> > >
>> > > In God's Peace,
>> > > Deni Scott
>> >
>> > My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
>> > of his supposed grand conspiracy.
>> >
>> If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
>> Benny. Or maybe it was psychosymantic(sp)?
>>
>> Eric
>
>
>Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
>
What spiritual healing?? All I hear are anecdotes.
Thomas P.
John Hattan
se...@koyote.com wrote:
>In article <6mrhg9$5ht$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>>
>> In article <6mrdgn$tp0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
>> ems...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>> >
>> > My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
>> > of his supposed grand conspiracy.
>> >
>> If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
>> Benny. Or maybe it was psychosymantic(sp)?
>
>Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
Can't vouch for Kennon, but that's a big "yes" for me.
Let's look at the facts.
- Healings are always for internal maladies, like "bad knees" or "back
pain". Never is the healing anything that can be seen. A scar has never
physically disappeared in view of anyone. A finger or eye has never
spontaneously grown back. Benny Hinn always covers his stage with
crutches and wheelchairs, but never artificial limbs.
- Most of Hinn's on-stage healings aren't that at all. As shown on the
recent TV expose', folks who show up with testimonials of Hinn's healing
are invited to show their dramatic results on stage. People with genuine
visible maladies, like amputated limbs, advanced cancer, emphysema, etc.
are not invited on the stage.
- James Randi's still got his 1.2 million. He's offered Hinn the money
if he can perform a genuine healing under controlled conditions, but
Hinn has declined. Actually, I don't blame Hinn --why Hinn want 1.2
million dollars or the notoriety of being the first man to perform a
healing that stands up to peer-review. That'd be bad for business :)
It remains to be said whether Hinn is a crank or a charlitan. He does
not, however, provide any healing that couldn't occur by natural means.
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article <6mroig$h3n$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
> In article <6mrhg9$5ht$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >
> > In article <6mrdgn$tp0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > ems...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > >
> > > "D.L. Scott" <dsc...@pgh.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
> > > > >All:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
> > > > >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking
for
> > > > >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
> > > > >
> > > > Great web page!
> > > >
> > > > The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
> > > >
> > > > As a Christian, I am ashamed of ALL of those charlatans.
> > > >
> > > > In God's Peace,
> > > > Deni Scott
> > >
member
> > > of his supposed grand conspiracy.
> > >
> > If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do
with
> > Benny. Or maybe it was psychosymantic(sp)?
> >
>
> Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
>
No its not. I believe in healing, I just dont believe a heretic like Hinn
would have anything to do with someones healing. He's a complete charlatan
(as opposed to a Charlatan UK).
eric
T.L. Bryant
In article
<77A53D59FCA88FE9.7EC5281E...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
hat...@fastlane.net says...
>- Healings are always for internal maladies, like "bad knees" or "back
>pain". Never is the healing anything that can be seen. A scar has never
>physically disappeared in view of anyone. A finger or eye has never
>spontaneously grown back. Benny Hinn always covers his stage with
>crutches and wheelchairs, but never artificial limbs.
>
>- Most of Hinn's on-stage healings aren't that at all. As shown on the
>recent TV expose', folks who show up with testimonials of Hinn's healing
>are invited to show their dramatic results on stage. People with genuine
>visible maladies, like amputated limbs, advanced cancer, emphysema, etc.
>are not invited on the stage.
>
>- James Randi's still got his 1.2 million. He's offered Hinn the money
>if he can perform a genuine healing under controlled conditions, but
>Hinn has declined. Actually, I don't blame Hinn --why Hinn want 1.2
>million dollars or the notoriety of being the first man to perform a
>healing that stands up to peer-review. That'd be bad for business :)
>
>It remains to be said whether Hinn is a crank or a charlitan. He does
>not, however, provide any healing that couldn't occur by natural means.
I was at a local Borders bookstore one evening and a guy there was a licensed
hypnotherapist giving a talk and peddling some books. He helps people use the
power of their own mind to heal whatever ails them. There's not much difference
in what this guy does and what Benny Hinn or other so-called "faith healers"
do.
As far as televangelists that belong in the Hall of Shame. There are two from
Ohio that I nominate: Ernest Angley and Leroy Jenkins.
Ernest Angley: Still runs a church in Akron. Owns and operates WBNX, Ch 55 , in
Akron, where they are so backwards that they still censor the words "damn" and
"hell" wherever they appear. I even saw a commercial for a country music radio
station once when Garth Brooks came on and said "It's one helluva
ride". This was even edited! It bills itself as a TV station that provides
"wholesome family entertainment" yet, like Pat Robertson's Family Channel,
shows old TV westerns, which were some of the most racist and violent shows of
their time. He shows a lot of visits to underdevoleped nations where he is
speaking to a crowd with the aide of an interpreter.
Leroy Jenkins: Operates (or used to) Delaware, Ohio, just North of Columbus.
This guy would make more money as an Elvis impersonator. He wears the tackiest
tuxedos I've ever seen. Public humilation of teenagers in his audience seemed
to be a thing with him when he was televised locally (especially when the
teenagers were female and VERY attractive.) An example of this was when he
claimed to be able to "cast out" the demons of drug use or alcoholism. He
wanted every teenager who did drugs or drank to come up on stage. One or two
did voluntarily, but then he said, "I'm gonna find out who's doin' drugs or
drankin' and I'm gonna point to you and I want you to go up thar on stage"
Then he added, "Ah know summa you don't wanna come on stage 'cause you don't
want your mama to know you do drugs. Well. I'ma gonna tell you sumthin. Your
mama is gonna find out, 'cause your daddy's gonna tell 'er!" (Daddy, meaning
himself) Again, very few boys, and a LOT of VERY attractive teenage girls were
called to come up on stage.
I don't know whatever happened to Rev. Leroy, but the last I saw of him on
television, he was doing the same as Ernest Angley: broadcasting from another
country with a interpreter by his side. That was about ten years ago.
--
Anti-spam measures in place. Delete the obvious in my address to reply.
se...@koyote.com
In article <35921de9...@news.inet.tele.dk>,
tony...@post6.tele.dk wrote:
>
> On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:46:08 GMT, se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
> >In article <6mrhg9$5ht$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <6mrdgn$tp0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> >> ems...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > In article <6mr1em$eup$1...@dropit.pgh.net>,
> >> > "D.L. Scott" <dsc...@pgh.net> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
> >> > > >All:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
> >> > > >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
> >> > > >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
> >> > > >
> >> > > Great web page!
> >> > >
> >> > > The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
> >> > >
> >> > > As a Christian, I am ashamed of ALL of those charlatans.
> >> > >
> >> > > In God's Peace,
> >> > > Deni Scott
> >> >
> >> > My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
> >> > of his supposed grand conspiracy.
> >> >
> >> If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
> >> Benny. Or maybe it was psychosymantic(sp)?
> >>
> >> Eric
> >
> >
> >Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
> >
>
>
> Thomas P.
Call it what you want. Spiritual healing is very real.
se...@koyote.com
In article
<77A53D59FCA88FE9.7EC5281E...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>, hat...@fastlane.net wrote:
>
> se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
> >In article <6mrhg9$5ht$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <6mrdgn$tp0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> >> ems...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
> >> > of his supposed grand conspiracy.
> >> >
> >> If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
> >> Benny. Or maybe it was psychosymantic(sp)?
> >
> >Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
>
> Can't vouch for Kennon, but that's a big "yes" for me.
>
> Let's look at the facts.
>
> - Healings are always for internal maladies, like "bad knees" or "back
> pain". Never is the healing anything that can be seen. A scar has never
> physically disappeared in view of anyone. A finger or eye has never
> spontaneously grown back. Benny Hinn always covers his stage with
> crutches and wheelchairs, but never artificial limbs.
Internal is the key word. Spiritual healing must come from within as the
spirit is within. As for no physical appearance of healing, I've known
people with bodies ravaged by cancer brought back to full health. You cant
tell me it's all fake, and even if the healing occured through our own mental
powers and not from the touch of the Lord, atheists wont be receiving much
needed healing. Christians benefit either way.
>
> - Most of Hinn's on-stage healings aren't that at all. As shown on the
> recent TV expose', folks who show up with testimonials of Hinn's healing
> are invited to show their dramatic results on stage. People with genuine
> visible maladies, like amputated limbs, advanced cancer, emphysema, etc.
> are not invited on the stage.
My cousin reported seeing a young deaf boy who gained hearing right on stage.
se...@koyote.com
>
> >> My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
> >> of his supposed grand conspiracy.
> >>
> >If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
> >Benny.
>
>
You obviously dont know Jesus.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Brian Barnson
In article <6mroig$h3n$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, se...@koyote.com says:
<snip>
>> If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
>> Benny. Or maybe it was psychosymantic(sp)?
Or possibly psycho-ceramic. aka crackpot?
Brian, in Calgary
Note: address slightly fiddled to frustrate spammers, it's really:
*** luddite at cadvision dot com ***
Kennon Baird
se...@koyote.com wrote:
>You obviously dont know Jesus.
Here's a shocker: You don't "know Jesus" either. All you "know" is
what others want you to believe for their own personal gain.
The dirty little secret of religion is that any feelings you attribute
to Jesus or "salvation" are of your own creation.
Preachers are quacks dispensing spiritual sugar-water. If the patient
"improves", they take the credit. If not, well, the patient's faith
just wasn't strong enough. The quack and his pap are never, ever to
blame.
Jesus - if he ever lived - has fallen to dust. Give it up.
Kennon
tony...@post6.tele.dk
On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:54:44 GMT, se...@koyote.com wrote:
>In article <35921de9...@news.inet.tele.dk>,
> tony...@post6.tele.dk wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:46:08 GMT, se...@koyote.com wrote:
>>
snip
>> >
>> >Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
>> >
>>
>> What spiritual healing?? All I hear are anecdotes.
>>
>> Thomas P.
>
>Call it what you want. Spiritual healing is very real.
>>
>> >>
Of course it is. Thank you for the assertion. An assertion is always
preferable to a reasoned argument or actual evidence.
Thomas P.
John Hattan
se...@koyote.com wrote:
>> - Healings are always for internal maladies, like "bad knees" or "back
>> pain". Never is the healing anything that can be seen. A scar has never
>> physically disappeared in view of anyone. A finger or eye has never
>> spontaneously grown back. Benny Hinn always covers his stage with
>> crutches and wheelchairs, but never artificial limbs.
>
>Internal is the key word.
So are you suggesting that god cannot make a limb grow back, or are you
ready to produce evidence of Hinn causing removed lungs and kidneys to
miraculously grow back.
>Spiritual healing must come from within as the spirit is within.
Where within? Apparently not in the arms, legs, or head, as Hinn can't
make hands, feet, or eyes grow back.
Somewhere in the thorax, presumably.
We'll find this elusive spirit!
>As for no physical appearance of healing, I've known
>people with bodies ravaged by cancer brought back to full health.
Again, it's something that can be explained outside of the realm of the
miraculous --spontaneous remissions do occur from time to time. Limbs
and organs, however, do not grow back. Bones do not un-break. No faith
healer can seem to make things happen that don't happen spontaneously.
Frankly, given the sheer mediocrity of the work of faith healers, I must
ask. . .who is the crank, Benny Hinn or God?
>You cant
>tell me it's all fake, and even if the healing occured through our own mental
>powers and not from the touch of the Lord, atheists wont be receiving much
>needed healing.
In fact, a good friend of mine is recovering remarkably well from cancer
despite her atheism.
>Christians benefit either way.
Really? I'm quite good at healing despite my atheism. I haven't had a
significant illness apart from 2nd-grade tonsillitis
. . .and I believed in god back then!
>> - Most of Hinn's on-stage healings aren't that at all. As shown on the
>> recent TV expose', folks who show up with testimonials of Hinn's healing
>> are invited to show their dramatic results on stage. People with genuine
>> visible maladies, like amputated limbs, advanced cancer, emphysema, etc.
>> are not invited on the stage.
>
>My cousin reported seeing a young deaf boy who gained hearing right on stage.
I presume your cousin asked mom what kind of deafness the kid was
suffering from. Did he have cochlear implants that were no longer
necessary? Did his eardrums spontaneously grow back? Was a doctor there
with a flashlight to verify that his inner ear was no longer damaged?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, Sears. Once you've
got said evidence, you really need to report your findings to randi.org.
He's got a pile-o-cash for you as soon as you can stop making ambiguous
claims of mediocre healing and can produce some facts.
John Hattan
se...@koyote.com wrote:
>>>Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
>>
>> What spiritual healing?? All I hear are anecdotes.
>
>Call it what you want. Spiritual healing is very real.
Because you say it is. You have produced zero facts other than some
unimpressive hearsay from a relative.
Produce some facts or sit back down. FOAF stories don't hold water.
se...@koyote.com
In article <359291b2...@news.c-com.net>,
k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>
> se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
> >You obviously dont know Jesus.
>
> Here's a shocker: You don't "know Jesus" either. All you "know" is
> what others want you to believe for their own personal gain.
I understand that your statement is your outside perception of Christianity.
However, I do know Jesus. True Christians gain a personal relationship with
Jesus Christ because he is a real and alive. Jesus can speak to us in many
ways, and it is absurd to claim that it is all our imagination. I dont base
my beliefs and faith solely on what some preacher says. I gain my faith by
reading the Bible, and spending quiet time with the Lord. You have no idea of
what's really going on..
>
> The dirty little secret of religion is that any feelings you attribute
> to Jesus or "salvation" are of your own creation.
Gee, is a concidence that my "feelings" are similiar to other Christian's
spiritual experiences.
>
> Preachers are quacks dispensing spiritual sugar-water. If the patient
> "improves", they take the credit. If not, well, the patient's faith
> just wasn't strong enough. The quack and his pap are never, ever to
> blame.
Preachers provide cost free conseling and real life concern for a person's
needs. Can your atheistic secular world make such claims?
>
> Jesus - if he ever lived - has fallen to dust. Give it up.
Give it up and what? Live a meaningless life with no source of hope or
healing?
>
> Kennon
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article <359291b2...@news.c-com.net>,
k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>
> se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
> >You obviously dont know Jesus.
>
> Here's a shocker: You don't "know Jesus" either. All you "know" is
> what others want you to believe for their own personal gain.
>
> to Jesus or "salvation" are of your own creation.
>
> "improves", they take the credit. If not, well, the patient's faith
> just wasn't strong enough. The quack and his pap are never, ever to
> blame.
>
>
>
>
This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start? First
off, no one tells me what to believe, I read the Bible and make my own
decisions. 2nd there is more than enough evidence of Jesus' life, death and
resurrection. Not just Biblical but historical also. And I do know Jesus!
Never met him but there is enough in the Bible to to base my beliefs and love
for Jesus.
I just have a question for you Kennon and Im not being condescending or self
rightous when I talk to you. Have you fully checked out what the Bible has
to say? It seems like you've had some bad experinces with Christianity? Im
sorry if Christ has been mis-represented to you. As a Christian, I know that
there are more than enough hypocritical, mean spirited whacko's out there
doing more harm than good, so I can see why people can be turned off to God.
If you and this includes anyone would look at the evidence of truth of the
Bible there is no denying that it is Gods word and totally true. Theres a
lot more to say but I will just finish by saying that you should take a look
at Bible and what it says. Don't accept it on blind faith. Check it out
historically and you will find the truth.
:(steps off soapbox)
Eric
Rev. Dr. Tim, McC, BsD
se...@koyote.com wrote:
>You obviously dont know Jesus.
I used to work with him. Damned good guy. His mother made killer tamales.
--
Rev. Dr. Tim, McC, BsD
Art Bell, Dr. Laura, Militia Satire Websites
http://extra.newsguy.com/~satire
ZOG Agent
Jackal, Ava Cairo's Palace of Jackals
Official Jackyl, Pack O'Jackyls (TM)
Order of the ILK
Skepticultist
Master Baiter
Proper Usenet Authority
High Counselor, New Usenet Order
certified psychic
Lord Supreme Being and Reigning Monarch of afa-b
Owner of a super-inflated ego
ICQ# 11429593
>rk: tim, there's no kind way to put this. Your energy reveals you to
>be no more than a mean spirited, petty, prideful, run-of-the-mill
>bullshitter!
Hiestzie
Eric wrote:
>I read the Bible and make my own decisions. 2nd there is more than enough
evidence of Jesus' life, death and resurrection. Not just Biblical but
historical also.
Jeff responds:
Actually, the historical evidence of Jesus Christ is very limited. The
historian Josephus (sp?) recounts the story of Jesus being crucified. Besides
mentioning that Jesus was a bastard child, Josephus is silent on any
resurection and or miracles involving Jesus. There are some Roman documents
that mention him in passing, but they are short on details.
Done of these historical mentions prove (or disprove) the existance of Jesus as
the Son of God. Since belief is a matter of faith, why is there a need to
prove something that is best left as a matter of faith.
I will now join Eric in stepping off the soapbox.
Jeff
Kennon Baird
e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
> First
>off, no one tells me what to believe, I read the Bible and make my own
>decisions. 2nd there is more than enough evidence of Jesus' life, death and
>resurrection. Not just Biblical but historical also.
What historical evidence? The Shroud of Turin, maybe?
> And I do know Jesus!
>Never met him but there is enough in the Bible to to base my beliefs and love
>for Jesus.
So? I really believed in - and loved - Santa Claus.
>I just have a question for you Kennon and Im not being condescending or self
>rightous when I talk to you.
How proud you must be!
>Have you fully checked out what the Bible has
>to say?
What a loaded question. I know enough about the Bible to know better.
> It seems like you've had some bad experinces with Christianity?
You've heard of Bob Larson, right?
> Im
>sorry if Christ has been mis-represented to you.
I don't think he has.
> As a Christian, I know that
>there are more than enough hypocritical, mean spirited whacko's out there
>doing more harm than good, so I can see why people can be turned off to God.
>If you and this includes anyone would look at the evidence of truth of the
>Bible there is no denying that it is Gods word and totally true.
Sure there is. There's oodles and oodles of denying. The denying never
ends.
Being that you're a Bible-believer, I assume you believe in the Young
Earth Theory and Noah's flood. If so, maybe you can answer a question
for me: If the Theory is true, and YHWH flooded the earth, drowning
all the unrighteous humans (along with billions of his totally
innocent animal creatures), why don't we find the remains of
dinosaurs, humans and familiar domestic animals intermingled in the
sediments?
>Theres a
>lot more to say but I will just finish by saying that you should take a look
>at Bible and what it says. Don't accept it on blind faith. Check it out
>historically and you will find the truth.
But don't you see? A thinking person *can't* accept it as truth. It
must be believed on blind faith, in spite of itself, and I'm not
willing to do that for the sake of false comfort.
Kennon
Jason Steiner
<se...@koyote.com> wrote:
> k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
> >
> > Here's a shocker: You don't "know Jesus" either. All you "know"
> > is what others want you to believe for their own personal gain.
>
> Christianity. However, I do know Jesus. True Christians gain a
> personal relationship with Jesus Christ because he is a real and
> alive. Jesus can speak to us in many ways, and it is absurd to
> claim that it is all our imagination.
Why? The human imagination is a very powerful thing.
> I dont base my beliefs and faith solely on what some preacher says.
> I gain my faith by reading the Bible, and spending quiet time with
> the Lord. You have no idea of what's really going on..
Do you? How do you know that during your "Quiet time with the Lord"
you're not actually talking to a demon? Or Satan himself? After
all, he can appear as an angel of light...
> > The dirty little secret of religion is that any feelings you
> > attribute to Jesus or "salvation" are of your own creation.
>
> Gee, is a concidence that my "feelings" are similiar to other
> Christian's spiritual experiences.
Not at all. Considering that you've all been indoctrinated roughly
the same way, and that the preachers who manipulate you are all
pushing the same buttons in the human psyche, it's no surprise at
all that your experiences are similar.
> > Preachers are quacks dispensing spiritual sugar-water. If the
> > patient "improves", they take the credit. If not, well, the
> > patient's faith just wasn't strong enough. The quack and his pap
> > are never, ever to blame.
>
> Preachers provide cost free conseling and real life concern for a
> person's needs. Can your atheistic secular world make such claims?
Sure. I call them "friends".
> > Jesus - if he ever lived - has fallen to dust. Give it up.
>
> Give it up and what? Live a meaningless life with no source of hope or
> healing?
You sound like a gambling addict. "But if I give up buying lottery
tickets, I'll have no hope of being a millionaire!" But his hope is
false, his chances of winning the lottery infinitesimal. If he took
the money he was blowing on the lottery every week and invested it,
he wouldn't need to be a millionaire, because he'd have enough money
to meet his needs, and quite a few wants beside.
If you took the effort you're wasting on your religion and devoted it
to something else...
jason
--
"The man who marries a modern woman marries a woman who expects to vote
like a man, smoke like a man, have her hair cut like a man, and go without
restrictions and without chaperones and obey nobody."
BOBBED HAIR - John R. Rice, 1941 http://www.gaydeceiver.com/
John Hattan
k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
>>Never met him but there is enough in the Bible to to base my beliefs and love
>>for Jesus.
>
>So? I really believed in - and loved - Santa Claus.
Sounds a bit like an article that Shelly recently wrote for the
CyberGrrlz webzine. . .
http://www.cybergrrlz.com/cg-hit-me.htm
Dunno how long it's gonna stay up, so read it ASAP.
walksalone
On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:00:24 GMT, se...@koyote.com wrote:
>In article <359291b2...@news.c-com.net>,
> k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>>
>> se...@koyote.com wrote:
>>
>> >You obviously dont know Jesus.
>>
>> Here's a shocker: You don't "know Jesus" either. All you "know" is
>> what others want you to believe for their own personal gain.
>
>I understand that your statement is your outside perception of Christianity.
>However, I do know Jesus. True Christians gain a personal relationship with
>Jesus Christ because he is a real and alive. Jesus can speak to us in many
>ways, and it is absurd to claim that it is all our imagination. I dont base
>my beliefs and faith solely on what some preacher says. I gain my faith by
>reading the Bible, and spending quiet time with the Lord. You have no idea of
>what's really going on..
this is good. for you. but the shocker is, not all of human kind has
you rperspective.
>> The dirty little secret of religion is that any feelings you attribute
>> to Jesus or "salvation" are of your own creation.
>
>Gee, is a concidence that my "feelings" are similiar to other Christian's
>spiritual experiences.
does mass delusion ring any bells?. can it?
>> Preachers are quacks dispensing spiritual sugar-water. If the patient
>> "improves", they take the credit. If not, well, the patient's faith
>> just wasn't strong enough. The quack and his pap are never, ever to
>> blame.
>
>Preachers provide cost free conseling and real life concern for a person's
>needs. Can your atheistic secular world make such claims?
yes, and many actualy care about people that they will never meet.
odd? not really.
>> Jesus - if he ever lived - has fallen to dust. Give it up.
>
>Give it up and what? Live a meaningless life with no source of hope or
>healing?
for you, maybe? for me & others, a full life with all its sorrow &
joy is preferable.
>> Kennon
thank you for not usiong spam free sites like deja news.. yeah,
right.
Let us endeavor to live that when we come to die even the undertaker
will be sorry.
Mark Twain
Earle Jones
>Ranger57 wrote in message <358AB5...@ix.netcom.com>...
>>All:
>>
>> I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
>>Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
>>other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
>>
>Great web page!
>
>The one nominee that comes immediately to mind is Benny Hinn.
--
Benny Hill >> Benny Hinn.
Is there anyone that reads this group that understands this?
earle
--
__
__/\_\
/\_\/_/
\/_/\_\ earle
\/_/ jones -- post-christian humanist
"Christianity is an appeal to selfishness. It is a promise of a great
reward in the future which is bought with faith, obedience, time, effort,
and money in the present."
--Unknown
"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence."
--David Hume
Neurocopulator
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:00:41 -0600, Ranger57 <Rang...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>All:
>
> I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
>Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
>other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
>
How can we forget Dr. Gene Scott? The man devotes over half his
program to footage of his race horse, and spends the other half
DEMANDING money (as opposed to the begging others do) without even
doing a damn thing.
I wish I had his balls.
"This is the University Network! Don't
let me find you asking any questions!"
- Dr. Gene Scott
John Hattan
walksal...@ala.net (walksalone) wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:00:24 GMT, se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
>>In article <359291b2...@news.c-com.net>,
>> k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>>>
>>I understand that your statement is your outside perception of Christianity.
>>However, I do know Jesus. True Christians gain a personal relationship with
>>Jesus Christ because he is a real and alive. Jesus can speak to us in many
>>ways, and it is absurd to claim that it is all our imagination. I dont base
>>my beliefs and faith solely on what some preacher says. I gain my faith by
>>reading the Bible, and spending quiet time with the Lord. You have no idea of
>>what's really going on..
>
>this is good. for you. but the shocker is, not all of human kind has
>you rperspective.
I seriously wonder if Elvis will transcend into messiah-hood over the
centuries. After all, more people claim to have seen him since his death
than saw Jesus after his.
It sounds silly, but that's how these kind of things start.
>>> The dirty little secret of religion is that any feelings you attribute
>>> to Jesus or "salvation" are of your own creation.
>>
>>Gee, is a concidence that my "feelings" are similiar to other Christian's
>>spiritual experiences.
>
>does mass delusion ring any bells?. can it?
Remember when Indian and Pakistani statues of Ganesh began consuming
their offerings a couple of years ago? That was *verified* by individual
sightings numbering in the tens of thousands.
What about people's claims of alien abduction? They follow a very
consistant pattern that has evolved over the years (generally to match
the popular sci-fi of the time).
People seem to think that their experience being consistant with others
is a sign that it's geniune. In truth, it's the opposite.
>>> Preachers are quacks dispensing spiritual sugar-water. If the patient
>>> "improves", they take the credit. If not, well, the patient's faith
>>> just wasn't strong enough. The quack and his pap are never, ever to
>>> blame.
>>
>>Preachers provide cost free conseling and real life concern for a person's
>>needs. Can your atheistic secular world make such claims?
>
>yes, and many actualy care about people that they will never meet.
>odd? not really.
I love the term "atheistic secular world". That one belongs in the
victim-psychology hall of fame.
>>> Jesus - if he ever lived - has fallen to dust. Give it up.
>>
>>Give it up and what? Live a meaningless life with no source of hope or
>>healing?
>
>for you, maybe? for me & others, a full life with all its sorrow &
>joy is preferable.
To quote the Reverend Ike, "I don't want my pie in the sky by and by. I
want my pie right now with a side dish of ice cream!"
>thank you for not usiong spam free sites like deja news.. yeah,
>right.
>
>
>Let us endeavor to live that when we come to die even the undertaker
>will be sorry.
Let us endeavor to die from an overdose of Viagra, so that even the
undertaker will have trouble getting the coffin lid closed.
-- Rev. M'kle!mbembe Shatner
e/w bear
In article
<AB411645A438D394.3E968732...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>, mke...@airmail.net (Neurocopulator) wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:00:41 -0600, Ranger57 <Rang...@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
> >All:
> >
> > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
> >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
> >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
> >
>
> How can we forget Dr. Gene Scott? The man devotes over half his
> program to footage of his race horse, and spends the other half
> DEMANDING money (as opposed to the begging others do) without even
> doing a damn thing.
>
Amen brother! I pick him up on short wave and he is just hillarious.
Definitely Shordurpersav material.
---
ewb
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article <3592d267...@news.c-com.net>,
k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>
> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> >This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
>
> Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
>
Im not going to argue with you because Im not going to change what you believe
and you arent going to change what I believe. You can only be changed if the
Spirit draws you to Him. So arguing would be useless. I would also apologize
if you felt I insulted you. It wasnt my intention.
Eric
> > First
> >off, no one tells me what to believe, I read the Bible and make my own
> >decisions. 2nd there is more than enough evidence of Jesus' life, death and
> >resurrection. Not just Biblical but historical also.
>
> What historical evidence? The Shroud of Turin, maybe?
>
> > And I do know Jesus!
> >Never met him but there is enough in the Bible to to base my beliefs and love
> >for Jesus.
>
> So? I really believed in - and loved - Santa Claus.
>
Jeffrey Quick
> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> >This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
>
> Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
Uh, Kennon, you came on a little strong. Still are. Might I point out that
discussions of the validity of Christianity are really off-topic for
alt.fan.bob-larson, and flat-out rude for alt.christnet (like the
Christers who come into the pagan newsgroups). I have no use for
Christianity either, but I believe in treating those who do with respect,
unless they do something to lose respect (like Lar$in). Life is just too
short for me to waste time being an unpaid deprogrammer.
> > First
> >off, no one tells me what to believe, I read the Bible and make my own
> >decisions. 2nd there is more than enough evidence of Jesus' life, death and
> >resurrection. Not just Biblical but historical also.
>
> What historical evidence? The Shroud of Turin, maybe?
Nah! EVERYBODY knows that's an artifact left over from the torture of
Jacques de Molay.
Kennon Baird
j...@po.cwru.edu (Jeffrey Quick) wrote:
>In article <3592d267...@news.c-com.net>, k...@phoenix.net (Kennon
>Baird) wrote:
>
>> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>>
>> >This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
>>
>> Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
>
>Uh, Kennon, you came on a little strong. Still are.
Really? I thought the Crusades were "a little strong". How about the
Holocaust? Maybe a tad on the "strong" side also? Not to mention the
witch-hangings and abortion-clinic murders.
>Might I point out that
>discussions of the validity of Christianity are really off-topic for
>alt.fan.bob-larson, and flat-out rude for alt.christnet (like the
>Christers who come into the pagan newsgroups).
Sure, you can point that out, but I really don't give a shit.
> I have no use for
>Christianity either, but I believe in treating those who do with respect,
>unless they do something to lose respect (like Lar$in).
To that infinitesimal fraction of Christendom which actually deserves
respect, I apologize. I wonder who they could be?
> Life is just too
>short for me to waste time being an unpaid deprogrammer.
But, evidently, not too short for you to poke your nose into my
business.
Kennon
Kennon Baird
e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>In article <3592d267...@news.c-com.net>,
> k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>>
>> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>>
>> >This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
>>
>> Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
>>
>Thats not an insult.
>
>Im not going to argue with you because Im not going to change what you believe
It's not what I "believe", it's what is demonstratively true. That's
the difference between us. You buy the lie because it makes you feel
better. To me, there's more to life than feeling good.
And now, just so some people don't get their shorts in a wad, I will
now mention that Bob Larson is a prick, just to keep this post "on
topic".
> I would also apologize
>if you felt I insulted you. It wasnt my intention.
That's okay, Man. Tell you what I'm gonna do - - - I'm going to give
you an even better deal than Jesus does: I forgive you, PLUS, I won't
send you to burn in hell for eternity if you don't accept me as
Your Personal Lord and Savior (tm). Let's see YHWH top that.
Kennon
kat
You're absolutely right! Benny Hinn couldn't heal a fly. BUT JESUS can heal whatever
ails you, deaf ears, asthma, cerebal palsy, damaged hearts---only working at 20%,
multiple scurlosis, [sp] blind eyes, disolve a pin in a leg, raise the
dead.........................
kat
John Hattan wrote:
> se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
> >In article <6mrhg9$5ht$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <6mrdgn$tp0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> >> ems...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > My cousin was healed at a Benny Hinn service. I dont think she was a member
> >> > of his supposed grand conspiracy.
> >> >
> >> If your cousin was healed at a Hinn crusade Im sure it had nothing to do with
> >> Benny. Or maybe it was psychosymantic(sp)?
> >
> >Is this your explanation for all spiritual healing??
>
> Can't vouch for Kennon, but that's a big "yes" for me.
>
> Let's look at the facts.
>
> - Healings are always for internal maladies, like "bad knees" or "back
> pain". Never is the healing anything that can be seen. A scar has never
> physically disappeared in view of anyone. A finger or eye has never
> spontaneously grown back. Benny Hinn always covers his stage with
> crutches and wheelchairs, but never artificial limbs.
>
> - Most of Hinn's on-stage healings aren't that at all. As shown on the
> recent TV expose', folks who show up with testimonials of Hinn's healing
> are invited to show their dramatic results on stage. People with genuine
> visible maladies, like amputated limbs, advanced cancer, emphysema, etc.
> are not invited on the stage.
>
> - James Randi's still got his 1.2 million. He's offered Hinn the money
> if he can perform a genuine healing under controlled conditions, but
> Hinn has declined. Actually, I don't blame Hinn --why Hinn want 1.2
> million dollars or the notoriety of being the first man to perform a
> healing that stands up to peer-review. That'd be bad for business :)
>
> It remains to be said whether Hinn is a crank or a charlitan. He does
> not, however, provide any healing that couldn't occur by natural means.
>
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article <3593b007...@news.c-com.net>,
k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>
> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> >In article <3592d267...@news.c-com.net>,
> > k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
> >>
> >> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >>
> >> >This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
> >>
> >> Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
> >>
> >Thats not an insult.
> >
> >Im not going to argue with you because Im not going to change what you
believe
>
> It's not what I "believe", it's what is demonstratively true. That's
> the difference between us. You buy the lie because it makes you feel
> better. To me, there's more to life than feeling good.
>
around.
> And now, just so some people don't get their shorts in a wad, I will
> now mention that Bob Larson is a prick, just to keep this post "on
> topic".
>
At least we agree on something.
> > I would also apologize
> >if you felt I insulted you. It wasnt my intention.
>
> That's okay, Man. Tell you what I'm gonna do - - - I'm going to give
> you an even better deal than Jesus does: I forgive you, PLUS, I won't
> send you to burn in hell for eternity if you don't accept me as
> Your Personal Lord and Savior (tm). Let's see YHWH top that.
>
> Kennon
>
>
Thats very generous of you. You're a good guy, I dont care what everyone else
here says about you.
Eric
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article <jaq-260698...@ml34314.ml.cwru.edu>,
j...@po.cwru.edu (Jeffrey Quick) wrote:
>
> In article <3592d267...@news.c-com.net>, k...@phoenix.net (Kennon
> Baird) wrote:
>
> > e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >
> > >This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
> >
> > Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
>
> discussions of the validity of Christianity are really off-topic for
> alt.fan.bob-larson, and flat-out rude for alt.christnet (like the
> Christianity either, but I believe in treating those who do with respect,
> short for me to waste time being an unpaid deprogrammer.
>
Thanks. Im not asking everyone to agree with me because I know its never
gonna happen. Im just looking for my views to be respected. Once again I
apologize for not respecting your views and calling your statement rediculous
Kennon.
Eric
> > > First
> > >off, no one tells me what to believe, I read the Bible and make my own
> > >decisions. 2nd there is more than enough evidence of Jesus' life, death and
> > >resurrection. Not just Biblical but historical also.
> >
> > What historical evidence? The Shroud of Turin, maybe?
>
> Nah! EVERYBODY knows that's an artifact left over from the torture of
> Jacques de Molay.
>
John Hattan
kat <ki...@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>You're absolutely right!
Good to hear you'd rather make one blanket statement rather than
responding to all of my points in turn.
>Benny Hinn couldn't heal a fly.
Neither can any faith healer.
>BUT JESUS can heal whatever
>ails you, deaf ears, asthma, cerebal palsy, damaged hearts---only working at 20%,
>multiple scurlosis, [sp] blind eyes, disolve a pin in a leg, raise the
>dead.........................
Evidence please.
Jeffrey Quick
In article <3593ab57...@news.c-com.net>, k...@phoenix.net (Kennon
Baird) wrote:
> j...@po.cwru.edu (Jeffrey Quick) wrote:
>
> >In article <3592d267...@news.c-com.net>, k...@phoenix.net (Kennon
> >Baird) wrote:
> >
> >> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >>
> >> >This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
> >>
> >> Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
> >
> >Uh, Kennon, you came on a little strong. Still are.
>
> Really? I thought the Crusades were "a little strong". How about the
> Holocaust? Maybe a tad on the "strong" side also? Not to mention the
> witch-hangings and abortion-clinic murders.
I'd agree on your entire list, especially the penultimate item, though one
could debate blaming the Christians for the Holocaust (if they'd been
practicing their faith, it would not have happened--but then, Mr. Josef
Sechspack und frau who voted in Hitler and followed orders weren't the
"real" Christians, were they?) I'd also say that a number of the
martyrdoms of saints 'come on a little strong" also. What's past is past.
We're both agreed that the right to practice Christianity ends where our
noses begin. I wish more Christians would realize that.
> > Life is just too
> >short for me to waste time being an unpaid deprogrammer.
> But, evidently, not too short for you to poke your nose into my
> business.
Well, yeah, is that, but it's easier to do- recreation instead of work.
Also, when you post your business on the Net, it becomes a matter of
public comment.
And in another post you write:
> That's okay, Man. Tell you what I'm gonna do - - - I'm going to give
> you an even better deal than Jesus does: I forgive you, PLUS, I won't
> send you to burn in hell for eternity if you don't accept me as
> Your Personal Lord and Savior (tm). Let's see YHWH top that.
That, to me, is the real problem with the Christian mythos: it's a good
cop/bad cop game between members of the Trinity. If God needed to forgive
us, and He's all-powerful, why didn't He just go and do it? Like, for us
to torture and kill His Son makes us easier to forgive???
John Hattan
e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>In article <3593b007...@news.c-com.net>,
> k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>>
>> That's okay, Man. Tell you what I'm gonna do - - - I'm going to give
>> you an even better deal than Jesus does: I forgive you, PLUS, I won't
>> send you to burn in hell for eternity if you don't accept me as
>> Your Personal Lord and Savior (tm). Let's see YHWH top that.
>>
>Thats very generous of you. You're a good guy, I dont care what everyone else
>here says about you.
Nobody here said anything bad about Kennon. Either you are trying to be
funny, or you are trying to make it seem like everyone's gotten on the
bandwagon against him. Either way, it didn't work --you just made
yourself sound like a prick.
John Hattan
j...@po.cwru.edu (Jeffrey Quick) wrote:
>That, to me, is the real problem with the Christian mythos: it's a good
>cop/bad cop game between members of the Trinity. If God needed to forgive
>us, and He's all-powerful, why didn't He just go and do it?
You can play this game all day. Why did he drown the entire populous
early on. Why did he order the slaughter of 50,000 people. Why did he
send bears to kill 42 children for making fun of a bald man?
I guess it's just part of being "all good".
>Like, for us to torture and kill His Son makes us easier to forgive???
That's something I never figured out about Christianity. How exactly
does torturing 1/3 of god to death forgive our sins? Saying "Jesus died
to forgive your sins" always seemed like saying "Mickey Mouse wore red
pants to forgive your sins". How exactly does one act bring about the
other?
Mattheq
In article <jaq-260698...@ml34314.ml.cwru.edu>, j...@po.cwru.edu
(Jeffrey Quick) wrote:
> Uh, Kennon, you came on a little strong. Still are. Might I point out that
> discussions of the validity of Christianity are really off-topic for
> alt.fan.bob-larson, and flat-out rude for alt.christnet (like the
> Christers who come into the pagan newsgroups).
It's not exactly relevant to alt.atheism.satire, but no one seems to care.
Well, I do, we have too much xtian crap as it is.
Mattheq
--
"And then, one Thursday nearly two thousand years after one man had been
nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a
change..." http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/9079/ Drop in!
IA i^8 His Holiness, Pope Mattheq I
kat
One of the Weinans [sp] the family that sings gospel music, De De and Be Be, died on
the operating table of a heart operation that was only working at 20% capacity. He was
dead when the three surgeons came out and asked the family what funeral home they
wanted. Pop Weinans said, "Not so, no death. God back in there and do the operation
again." The Weinans family, about 100 of them, all prayed for the three doctors and
they went back into the operating room. They put the heart back into the chest and it
wouldn't start. Then one doctor put his hand into the chest and pushed on the heart
and it started beating. Ronny Weinans is alive and well today and singing up a
beautiful storm for His Lord Jesus.
How about the heavy weight boxer, Holyfield, who suffered a damaged heart from
morphine that the doctors gave him for pain, was healed and the proof is at the Mayo
Clinic. But of course the doctors now say they misdiagnosed him, but Holyfield says he
was healed by Jesus of a damaged heart.
I was healed of high blood pressure and depression. I know, minor things, but to me
they are major as high blood pressure runs in my family. Praise God, mine is 128 over
83.
kat
John Hattan wrote:
> kat <ki...@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >You're absolutely right!
>
> Good to hear you'd rather make one blanket statement rather than
> responding to all of my points in turn.
>
> >Benny Hinn couldn't heal a fly.
>
> Neither can any faith healer.
>
> >BUT JESUS can heal whatever
> >ails you, deaf ears, asthma, cerebal palsy, damaged hearts---only working at 20%,
> >multiple scurlosis, [sp] blind eyes, disolve a pin in a leg, raise the
> >dead.........................
>
> Evidence please.
>
Teresa Tutt
> Preachers are quacks dispensing spiritual sugar-water. If the patient
> "improves", they take the credit. If not, well, the patient's faith
> just wasn't strong enough. The quack and his pap are never, ever to
> blame.
Kind of like 12-step programs.
--
Teresa E. Tutt email: tu...@psfc.mit.edu
Graduate Student, (G1) Phone: 617-253-9853
Alcator C-MOD Group, Office: NW17-281
Current project: Diamagnetic Loop diagnostic
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article
<04A49ED041E0202A.FDBCBF78...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>, hat...@fastlane.net wrote:
>
> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> >In article <3593b007...@news.c-com.net>,
> > k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
> >>
> >> That's okay, Man. Tell you what I'm gonna do - - - I'm going to give
> >> you an even better deal than Jesus does: I forgive you, PLUS, I won't
> >> send you to burn in hell for eternity if you don't accept me as
> >> Your Personal Lord and Savior (tm). Let's see YHWH top that.
> >>
> >Thats very generous of you. You're a good guy, I dont care what everyone
else
> >here says about you.
>
> Nobody here said anything bad about Kennon. Either you are trying to be
> funny, or you are trying to make it seem like everyone's gotten on the
> bandwagon against him. Either way, it didn't work --you just made
> yourself sound like a prick.
>
Hey dude lighten up, I was joking. And I thought you had a sense of humor?
You're as uptight as a lot of Christians that I know.
eric
> John Hattan High UberPopeness -The First Church of Shatnerology
> The Code Zone Sweet Software for a Saturnine World
> hat...@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~hattan/
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Earle Jones
>On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:00:24 GMT, se...@koyote.com wrote:
>
>>In article <359291b2...@news.c-com.net>,
>> k...@phoenix.net (Kennon Baird) wrote:
>>>
>>> se...@koyote.com wrote:
>>>
>>> >You obviously dont know Jesus.
>>>
>>> Here's a shocker: You don't "know Jesus" either. All you "know" is
>>> what others want you to believe for their own personal gain.
>>
>>I understand that your statement is your outside perception of Christianity.
>>However, I do know Jesus. True Christians gain a personal relationship with
>>Jesus Christ because he is a real and alive...
--
I thought he *died* for our sins. If he is *alive*, then he didn't die.
Which is it?
Did he just die for a couple of days, and then come back to life so that he
is now *alive*. I don't call that dying for my sins or for anything else.
Temporary dying doesn't count in my book. It's a cheap trick!
earle
--
__
__/\_\
/\_\/_/
\/_/\_\ earle
\/_/ jones -- post-christian humanist
"Why has a religious turn of mind always a tendency to narrow and harden
the heart?"
--Robert Burns
"The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the
world ugly and bad."
--Nietzsche
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."
--Delo McKown
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
kat (ki...@sk.sympatico.ca) wrote:
: You're absolutely right! Benny Hinn couldn't heal a fly. BUT JESUS can heal whatever
: ails you, deaf ears, asthma, cerebal palsy, damaged hearts---only working at 20%,
: multiple scurlosis, [sp] blind eyes, disolve a pin in a leg, raise the
: dead.........................
: kat
The problem is, if a realing instantaneous healing actually occurs there
is no way to prove that it is the result of the intervention of
God/Jesus/holy figure of your choice and not the result of some unknown
human ability. Of course first we would have to find an actual
instantaneous healing that would stand up to examination.
tim gueguen 101867
TarlaStar
mke...@airmail.net (Neurocopulator) wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:00:41 -0600, Ranger57 <Rang...@ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>>All:
>>
>> I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
>>Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
>>other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
>>
> How can we forget Dr. Gene Scott? The man devotes over half his
>program to footage of his race horse, and spends the other half
>DEMANDING money (as opposed to the begging others do) without even
>doing a damn thing.
> I wish I had his balls.
I do...in a little jar of formaldehyde. You really wouldn't want them,
they're all shrinkled and stinky.
John Hattan
kat <ki...@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>One of the Weinans [sp] the family that sings gospel music, De De and Be Be, died on
>the operating table of a heart operation that was only working at 20% capacity. He was
>dead when the three surgeons came out and asked the family what funeral home they
>wanted. Pop Weinans said, "Not so, no death. God back in there and do the operation
>again." The Weinans family, about 100 of them, all prayed for the three doctors and
>they went back into the operating room. They put the heart back into the chest and it
>wouldn't start. Then one doctor put his hand into the chest and pushed on the heart
>and it started beating. Ronny Weinans is alive and well today and singing up a
>beautiful storm for His Lord Jesus.
OK, lemme get this straight here.
Ronny Weinans had a heart that was working at 20% capacity, whatever
that means. Since previous attempts at non-invasive faith healing had
failed completely, he was sent in for a secular solution. Prayers said
during the operation had failed again, as the patient died on the
operating table. After he was pronounced dead, the family demanded that
the heart be put back in his chest (suggesting that the heart had been
removed) and the operation be repeated (suggesting that the operation
had been *reversed* after being completed the first time). The third
prayers were apparently done correctly, as the heart started beating and
little Ronny is stormin' today.
Doesn't this story sound even one teensy bit fishy to you? Even a little
bit?
>How about the heavy weight boxer, Holyfield, who suffered a damaged heart from
>morphine that the doctors gave him for pain, was healed and the proof is at the Mayo
>Clinic. But of course the doctors now say they misdiagnosed him, but Holyfield says he
>was healed by Jesus of a damaged heart.
http://www.journeypubs.com/discernet/hinn3.htm
>I was healed of high blood pressure and depression. I know, minor things, but to me
>they are major as high blood pressure runs in my family. Praise God, mine is 128 over
>83.
I used to have high blood pressure and depression, but I don't anymore.
Did it by losing some weight and avoiding prayer entirely. HBP runs in
my family too. What's your point?
---
e...@bellatlantic.net
> Kennon's statements aren't ridiculous at all. A little insensitive,
perhaps.
> Religion is about faith. There is no evidence to support the contention that
> Jesus is an incarnation of God
> made flesh. He existed, but there's nothing to qualify the nature of that
> existence. You either believe, or you don't.
> Kennon obviously doesn't, and hypocritical "Christian" broadcasters who are
in
> it for the money certainly don't
> help matters when it comes to conversion. If you want people to believe in
> your religion, start by cleaning up your own
> backyard filled with charlatans and right wing politicians masquerading as
> Ministers of the Gospel. When you have a
> clean house (a la kicking out the moneychangers) then maybe people will
want
> to come in.
>
Well, unfortunatly there always have been charlatans and there always will
be. But that is no excuse for unbelief. It has nothing to do with what
someone else does but with what you do. You will only be judged by your own
actions and just because there are hypocrites in the church will not be an
acceptable excuse. I do believe there will be a special place in Hell for
those who have led people astray with their lies and greed.
Eric
> Regards,
> Adam Rideout < home page: http://pages.sssnet.com/djester/ >
>
> "Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical
> universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one
> step beyond logic." - Frank Herbert, Dune
> --
tony...@post6.tele.dk
On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:04:34 GMT, e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
>
>> Kennon's statements aren't ridiculous at all. A little insensitive,
>perhaps.
>> Religion is about faith. There is no evidence to support the contention that
>> Jesus is an incarnation of God
>> made flesh. He existed, but there's nothing to qualify the nature of that
>> existence. You either believe, or you don't.
>> Kennon obviously doesn't, and hypocritical "Christian" broadcasters who are
>in
>> it for the money certainly don't
>> help matters when it comes to conversion. If you want people to believe in
>> your religion, start by cleaning up your own
>> backyard filled with charlatans and right wing politicians masquerading as
>> Ministers of the Gospel. When you have a
>> clean house (a la kicking out the moneychangers) then maybe people will
>want
>> to come in.
>>
>
>Well, unfortunatly there always have been charlatans and there always will
>be. But that is no excuse for unbelief. It has nothing to do with what
>someone else does but with what you do. You will only be judged by your own
>actions and just because there are hypocrites in the church will not be an
>acceptable excuse. I do believe there will be a special place in Hell for
>those who have led people astray with their lies and greed.
>
Why would one need an excuse for unbelief? It would seem more logical
to have reasons for a belief. You believe in a loving god that made
hell. You are the one who needs to come up with some excuses.
Thomas P.
Kennon Baird
tony...@post6.tele.dk wrote:
>>Well, unfortunatly there always have been charlatans and there always will
>>be. But that is no excuse for unbelief.
Well, there have always been a few decent-acting Christians, and there
probably will always be some. But that is no excuse for believing in
the patently absurd.
Kennon
Elan Kia
Steve Dahl & Garry Meier <www.dahl.com> recorded a song about Ernest
Angely called "Heal Me" to the tune of Blondie's "Call Me" in the early
80's.
Does Angely have a buffet?
I would like to nominate John Avanzini, this "hired gun" goes into
different TV markets to "prime the pump" for telethons, by teaching
"financial well-being," which involves the individual opening his
checkbook. Except maybe for Tilton, and he has the excuse of being
insane(ly greedy), no one has doneso much to create a heretical "tool"
philosophy to pry open the wallets of the TV flock
p.s. I always was amused by Oral Roberts' concept of "seed money" that
grows back to you, when you send it to him
p.p.s. the fruit of Oral's loins, Richard, can't seem to fill Dad's
shoes, even with wife #2
Elan Kia "Ora et labora."
Groove to the FUNK on the web, check out The Outsiders homepage
<www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/3833/>
John Hattan
e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>Well, unfortunatly there always have been charlatans and there always will
>be.
I think you've summed up the prevailing attitude towards the toleration
of internal corruption in the Christian ranks.
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article
<4D6A8A209EAF9FEB.09FC016D...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>, hat...@fastlane.net wrote:
>
> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> >Well, unfortunatly there always have been charlatans and there always will
> >be.
>
> I think you've summed up the prevailing attitude towards the toleration
> of internal corruption in the Christian ranks.
>
> ---
Its not a toleration its just a sad fact. What should be done about this?
Maybe take them out and stone them or cut their heads off with swords? I
think the 1st amendment covers all aspects of free speech, even lies.
> John Hattan High UberPopeness -The First Church of Shatnerology
> The Code Zone Sweet Software for a Saturnine World
> hat...@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~hattan/
>
MoeMcAl
In article <6mud53$6f0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, e...@bellatlantic.net writes:
>> Jesus - if he ever lived - has fallen to dust. Give it up.
>>
>> Kennon
>>
>>
>
>This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
First
>off, no one tells me what to believe, I read the Bible and make my own
>decisions. 2nd there is more than enough evidence of Jesus' life, death and
>resurrection. Not just Biblical but historical also. And I do know Jesus!
>Never met him but there is enough in the Bible to to base my beliefs and love
>for Jesus.
>
Historical evidence? WHAT historical evidence? The ONLY contemporary
mentionings of Jesus at all was as the followers of Jesus, much in the same way
as the followers of Mithra or Isis. If you read the Bible and make your own
decisions, you are being told what to believe--by the men who compiled the
Bible in the first place! I have read the same Bible and my own feeling is that
the god of the Bible is one sorry-assed individual not worthy of my worship,
and certainly NOT the Supreme Being! Also, I'd bet you don't know that all of
the miracles, etc. ascribed to Jesus in the New Testament all came from other
religions--MYTHOLOGICAL sources.
>I just have a question for you Kennon and Im not being condescending or self
>rightous when I talk to you. Have you fully checked out what the Bible has
>to say? It seems like you've had some bad experinces with Christianity? Im
>sorry if Christ has been mis-represented to you. As a Christian, I know that
>there are more than enough hypocritical, mean spirited whacko's out there
>doing more harm than good, so I can see why people can be turned off to God.
>If you and this includes anyone would look at the evidence of truth of the
>Bible there is no denying that it is Gods word and totally true. Theres a
>lot more to say but I will just finish by saying that you should take a look
>at Bible and what it says. Don't accept it on blind faith. Check it out
>historically and you will find the truth.
>
As noted bove I have read the Bible and what it says. To me, the Bible is a set
of books written by males, edited by males, "translated", interpreted and
otherwise skewed by males, all claiming that this is the word of god and
therefore should not be questioned. Your assertion that the Bible is God's word
and is totally true proves to me that you yourself have NOT studied the bible
AND you have accepted it all on BLIND faith. Have you looked as Hasidic
writings? Have you read ANY criticism of the Bible or only the Apologeticists?
While some parts of the Bible have historcal basis, it also has quite a few
propagandic areas posing as "historical fact." Moses parting the Red Sea, for
example. You'd thing the reigning Pharoah of that time would have had a fit
with all thoses supposed Jewish slaves leaving and all the miracles would have
been recorded by the scribes. No Egyptian records of this miraculous parting
exist. Ad don't get me stared on the 40 years in the wilderness nonsense!
Typical of a guy not to ask directions when he's lost!
>:(steps off soapbox)
>
>Eric
Eric, have your read the Upanishads? The Rig Veda, the Elder Eddas, the
Mabinogian or any otherof the sacred texts of other religons? Then how do you
know THEY are not the words of God as well?
Maureen AKA Born Again Pagan
Long live FOREVER KNIGHT on the Sci-Fi Channel!
"A vampire cop? REALY?"
MoeMcAl
>> Here's a shocker: You don't "know Jesus" either. All you "know" is
>> what others want you to believe for their own personal gain.
>
>I understand that your statement is your outside perception of Christianity.
>However, I do know Jesus. True Christians gain a personal relationship with
>Jesus Christ because he is a real and alive. Jesus can speak to us in many
>ways, and it is absurd to claim that it is all our imagination. I dont base
>my beliefs and faith solely on what some preacher says. I gain my faith by
>reading the Bible, and spending quiet time with the Lord. You have no idea of
>what's really going on..
>
If I were to say that I ave a personal relationship with Lilith, my Savior, and
toldyou Lilith was Adam's first wife BEFORE Eve, what would you say? If Jesus
is real and alive, then he sure as hell is a SLACKER, because the religion
bearing his name has been repsonsible for a LOT of harm.You have no idea
yourself of what is realy going on outsde of your narrow view of existence. If
you do know Jesus as you claim, then you and he are best buddies, right?
Personal pals? Then he should tell you something about me only I know.
Otheriwise Jesus is like Mithra or Godzilla.
>>
>> The dirty little secret of religion is that any feelings you attribute
>> to Jesus or "salvation" are of your own creation.
>
>Gee, is a concidence that my "feelings" are similiar to other Christian's
>spiritual experiences.
>
No, that's not a coincidence, That's indoctination, the psychology of being a
True Believer. Feelings are subjective, Just ask a person in depression, and
you'll find they can't percieve of anything without their depression skewing
it.
MoeMcAl
>>
>> >This is a such a rediculous statement! I dont know where to start?
>>
>> Start off by insulting me, in true Christian fashion.
>>
>Thats not an insult.
>
>Im not going to argue with you because Im not going to change what you
>believe
>and you arent going to change what I believe. You can only be changed if the
>Spirit draws you to Him. So arguing would be useless. I would also
>apologize
>if you felt I insulted you. It wasnt my intention.
>
>Eric
So IOW you are gonna hide? What are you afraid of, that your bible can't stand
up to a little scrutiny? If it is impossible for you to change what you
believe, you cannt grow as a human being. You stagnate mentally and
spiritually.
While we're on the subject of "Holy Spirit", kindly tell me WHAT this thing is?
I hear Holy Spirit this and Holy Ghost that but not once from a Xian have I
ever heard of WHAT this thing is. Graphic depictions of hell and demonic
influences, no problem! Angels, exorcisms, holy communion, baptisms, worship
services, hymns, all easily explained and understood by a nonbeliever. But Holy
Ghost/ Holy Spirit? You might as well call it a pooka or will-of-the wisp, for
it seems to be the same thing, an ethereal myth.
So sorry you can't defend your bible from us heathens.
MoeMcAl
In article
<04A49ED041E0202A.FDBCBF78...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
hat...@fastlane.net (John Hattan) writes:
>>Thats very generous of you. You're a good guy, I dont care what everyone
>else
>>here says about you.
>
>Nobody here said anything bad about Kennon. Either you are trying to be
>funny, or you are trying to make it seem like everyone's gotten on the
>bandwagon against him. Either way, it didn't work --you just made
>yourself sound like a prick
He's trying to divide and separate. Typical Fundie Xian brainwashing tactic.
"Sound" like a prick? ((trying to imagine what one sounds like))
MoeMcAl
In article
<702DCC4D3FC12AA4.719CDFAB...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
hat...@fastlane.net (John Hattan) writes:
>
>>Like, for us to torture and kill His Son makes us easier to forgive???
>
>That's something I never figured out about Christianity. How exactly
>does torturing 1/3 of god to death forgive our sins? Saying "Jesus died
>to forgive your sins" always seemed like saying "Mickey Mouse wore red
>pants to forgive your sins". How exactly does one act bring about the
>other?
I never could understand that either. Basically you have this guy constantly
bleed and in torture as a sacrifice for the sins of really scuzzy humans. I
think this obscenity comes form the Biblical dictate that there is no
"forgiveness" of sins without bloodshed. Remember that the Judaic priesthood
was big on blood sacrifce-- others, OC-- and what the bibliolators do not
realize is that for a very long time the Jews practiced HUMAN sacrifice. In the
Bible, it was okay to sacrifce your daughter, but apparently not your son. And
they claim MY religion was bloodthirsty!
Funny thing. Supposedly Jesus was compassionate and so forth, but to let JC
suffer so seems to me to be very UNcompassionate. And yet, this is accepted,
even cherished, by the Xians. "Washed in the Blood of the Lamb", Jesus' blood
acting like bleach to the sins of the saved, visions of Mary and other
Catholic saints crying tears of blood. Nothing about MENSTRUAL blood being a
sin eliminator, OC. Older Pagan beliefs had respect for menstrual blood.
Considering my interest on vampires, you can guess what some of my questions to
the devout Xians would be about this sacred male blood stuff.
Maureen AKA Born Again Pagan
Long live FOREVER KNIGHT on the Sci-Fi Channel
"A vampire cop? REALLY?"
MoeMcAl
I nominate the following:
! Bob Lar$on ( of course)
2.) Hal Lindsey AND Johanna Michaelson ( both knew Lauren Stratford was lying
when she said she was a breeder and was a victin of pedophilia.) Hal should be
banned as a false prophet.
3) Mike Warnke, not just for his YEARS of lies and really bad "comedy" but
also because the stupid Xians accepted him BACK into the fold after he was
exposed.
4) Any and all Xian author of books, videos and tapes saying that othe rbeliefs
are evil and of thedevil, ban Halloween and buy gold coins.
mol...@accessone.net
On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:54:09 GMT, e/wb...@hibernia.ca (e/w bear)
wrote:
>In article
><AB411645A438D394.3E968732...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
>t>, mke...@airmail.net (Neurocopulator) wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:00:41 -0600, Ranger57 <Rang...@ix.netcom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >All:
>> >
>> > I've just added The Televangelists' Hall of Shame to the Bob Larson
>> >Fan Club website (http://www.bitsmart.com/boblarson), and am looking for
>> >other deserving nominees. Any suggestions?
>> >
>>
>> How can we forget Dr. Gene Scott? The man devotes over half his
>> program to footage of his race horse, and spends the other half
>> DEMANDING money (as opposed to the begging others do) without even
>> doing a damn thing.
>>
>Amen brother! I pick him up on short wave and he is just hillarious.
>Definitely Shordurpersav material.
>---
>ewb
There's a better one though, but he doesn't deserve to be in the hall
of shame, mostly because he has slack! Have you been listening to
shortwave long enough to have ever heard Rev. Ike????? I think the
dude is still around, but not on shortwave anymore. He'd drive around
in a Lincoln convertible with mass amounts of gold chains and a really
fine looking pimp outfit complete with matching hat...... If you've
ever seen the movie Carwash, the evangelist on there was patterned
after Rev. Ike. His gospel involved him telling you that God wants
you to be happy, so you should have whatever it is that makes you
happy. You want gold chains? God wants you to have them because
they'll make you happy. And money makes Rev. Ike happy, so you should
send him some. He never claimed to heal people or anything like
that....., he just went out and preached his own gospel.
The Rev. Mama Molly of the
Sad Eyed Sisters of Queen Anne
anonymous
anonymous
Hey Maureen, werent you the person putting down someone else a few
months back in this NG who though menstrual blood was sacred? Just
wondering.
Keith E. Young
Elan Kia (ela...@webtv.net) wrote:
: Steve Dahl & Garry Meier <www.dahl.com> recorded a song about Ernest
: Angely called "Heal Me" to the tune of Blondie's "Call Me" in the early
: 80's.
: Does Angely have a buffet?
Angely sure does have a buffet...the "Cathedral Buffet" located right next
to his church and TV studios. He also owns a TV station here in the NE
Ohio area, WBNX TV55. They have the Fox Kids license for the area, and
they also have syndiacted shows, but they cut out any "bad words" (Hell,
damn, etc) and any "offensive scenes" (such as a scene with a hooker
framing Matlock on "Matlock").
(I forgot to add where the buffet and church are...they're on State Street
in Cuyahoga Falls, OH, just north of Arkon and west of Kent (Where I
live).)
I haven't heard the song...I wish I could...but I plan on going to the
buffet in the near future, I've heard it's EXCELLENT.
--
-Keith Young
ultim...@hotmail.com
In article <199806210437...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
hies...@aol.com (Hiestzie) wrote:
>
> >Did Lindsey ever have a TV show?
>
> Hal did not have a regular TV series, but he had specials about the
coming
> end times. If I recall correctly, those specials ran in the late 70's.
...he also conned Orson Welles (no whacked-out fundie *he*) into narrating
the theatrical film version of THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH...I still have the
soundtrack album to that turd...I guess, after F FOR FAKE, Orson thought
fakery would be more fun as a career move ("I think it would be fun to run a
horseshit newspaper")...
...however, for sake of taste alone, stick with THE WAR OF THE WORLDS if you
don't want Orson's memory to be tarnished :-) ...
King Daevid MacKenzie, UltimaJock! ultim...@unforgettable.com
"Masticate me!" TOM LEYKIS
("|`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
King Daevid's BI EVERY MEANS NECESSARY commentaries are at
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/7853/bieverymeans.html
(coming in July to WSBC 1240/WCFJ 1470 Chicago!)
Kent Wills
>Historical evidence? WHAT historical evidence? The ONLY contemporary
>mentionings of Jesus at all was as the followers of Jesus, much in the
same way
>as the followers of Mithra or Isis. If you read the Bible and make your
own
>decisions, you are being told what to believe--by the men who compiled
the
>Bible in the first place! I have read the same Bible and my own feeling
is that
>the god of the Bible is one sorry-assed individual not worthy of my
worship,
>and certainly NOT the Supreme Being! Also, I'd bet you don't know that
all of
>the miracles, etc. ascribed to Jesus in the New Testament all came from
other
>religions--MYTHOLOGICAL sources.
Can you site sources I could look up for your claim that the miracles
of Jesus wer from other religions? I've heard many people make this
claim, but all look dumbfounded when asked for verifiable sourses. The
closest I ever got was back in Poland. A woman told me to check some
book of mythos. On the first page the author noted that everything
contained within was his personal opinion and should not be viewed as
fact (I'm sorry, I can't recall the title of the book, but whereas it was
published in Polish, most of you would have trouble reading it anyway
<g>).
Anyway, if you could site something so that I, and others, can check
up on them, I would be greatful.
Kent
--
Dubbed "#1 Catia Paganote fan" by Rob.
John Hattan
e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>In article
><4D6A8A209EAF9FEB.09FC016D...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>>, hat...@fastlane.net wrote:
>>
>> e...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>>
>>>Well, unfortunatly there always have been charlatans and there always will
>>>be.
>>
>> I think you've summed up the prevailing attitude towards the toleration
>> of internal corruption in the Christian ranks.
>>
>Its not a toleration its just a sad fact.
Weren't you the same person who expected me to respect Christianity?
Doesn't fly, bubba. There are a buncha radio preachers who are making
your religion into a tongue-talking Lexus-driving ski-mansion sideshow.
When confronted with this fact, you defend your complacency.
You make me sick.
>What should be done about this? Maybe take them out and stone them or cut
>their heads off with swords?
I couldn't have summed up the typical sheep attitude any better myself.
ek1, I don't want you to cut their heads off. I don't want you to do
anything. I want you to retreat back into your self-righteous stupor for
a few more years while atheists like myself defend the few worthwhile
parts of your silly religion.
>I think the 1st amendment covers all aspects of free speech, even lies.
So you wouldn't mind if I took out a full-page ad in "USA Today" stating
that ek1 is the president of NAMBLA and spends his days at the local
grade schools sniffing the bicycle seats.
That's what Bob Larson et al. are doing to your religion.
---
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article <199806282012...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,<04A49ED041E0202A.FDBCBF78...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
> hat...@fastlane.net (John Hattan) writes:
>
> >>Thats very generous of you. You're a good guy, I dont care what everyone
> >else
> >>here says about you.
> >
> >Nobody here said anything bad about Kennon. Either you are trying to be
> >funny, or you are trying to make it seem like everyone's gotten on the
> >bandwagon against him. Either way, it didn't work --you just made
> >yourself sound like a prick
>
> He's trying to divide and separate. Typical Fundie Xian brainwashing tactic.
> "Sound" like a prick? ((trying to imagine what one sounds like))
>
YOu guys catch on quick. That was exactly what I was doing. Cant get anything
past you atheists? I'll have to try another way to "divide and seperate".
eric
> Maureen AKA Born Again Pagan
> Long live FOREVER KNIGHT on the Sci-Fi Channel!
> "A vampire cop? REALY?"
>
e...@bellatlantic.net
In article
<6B76A722DA80F81B.6B6B8C01...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>, hat...@fastlane.net wrote:
Hey John. What would you like to me to do about Lar$on, Hinn, TBN etc...?