The inspiration for the White Dragon noodle bar logo/neon?
WEKurtz
http://www2.cr.nps.gov/tps/images/25_starnoodle.jpg
It's a noodle restaurant in Ogden, Utah. Does it resembles something
familiar to you? ;-)
The website where I accidentally (!) found this pic talks about the
preservation of historic neon signs, so I deduct that this one has been
there before the production of Blade Runner. If this is true, in my opinion
It's highly possible that this sign have been the inspiration for the White
Dragon's.
WEKurtz-----------------------------
WEKurtz
http://www.pegasus00.com/James/starnoodle.jpg
Oh, it's ALMOST THE SAME sign than White Dragon's!! It has even the motion?
tongue!!
WEKurtz------------------------------
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Gnomus
Considering that the Chinese have been using dragons in their designs
for thousands of years, it seems likely that you could find lots of
similar designs, if you search hard enough. To label this sign as the
inspiration for the White Dragon seems a bit hasty. So if you want to
establish provenance, I think you're going to have to do some more footwork.
Gnomus
WEKurtz
the first time I see one with the *SAME* shape of White Dragon's.
Anyway I didn't asseverate anything; I said that, considering its history,
it was "highly possible" that the sign have been the inspiration.
WEKurtz-----------------------------
"Gnomus" <gno...@gte.net> escribió en el mensaje
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Gnomus
> I've seen lots of chinese restaurant logos featuring dragons, but this is
> the first time I see one with the *SAME* shape of White Dragon's.
> Anyway I didn't asseverate anything; I said that, considering its history,
> it was "highly possible" that the sign have been the inspiration.
>
> WEKurtz-----------------------------
The other thing to consider is that -- if I remember my Future Noir
correctly -- they made a deal with someone who had a lot of neon signs,
and this person was responsible for maintaining the signs and placing
them in the sets and locations. Which is the reason why some signs
appear again and again. It's possible the sign already existed and was
not made especially for those three or four seconds it's on screen.
I still think it's a stretch, but what else have we got to discuss
around here? Now, who's got Lawrence Paull's email address...
Or, does Star Noodle have a web page or phone number listed? We can ask
them who made their sign and work from there.
Gnomus
WEKurtz
> with someone who had a lot of neon signs, > and this person
> was responsible for maintaining the signs and placing
> them in the sets and locations. Which is the reason why some
> signs appear again and again. It's possible the sign already
> existed and was not made especially for those three or four
> seconds it's on screen.
"Future Noir" says:
As for lighting Ridleyville, this was primarily accomplished through dozens
of neon signs the BR production team had assembled for th shoot. "There was
so much neon, in fact", says cinematographer Jordan Cronenweth, "that we had
a seven-man team whose sole responsability was to take care of those signs.
Those guys were necessary because, whenever possible, I tried to light the
New York set --all those bazaars and crowd scenes and street chases-- with
available light.
Summarizing, Sammon does not mention a "person" responsible for the neons,
but a seven-team of them. Also he doesn't offer any clue about the origin of
the neons; he just says that these guys had the mission of *maintain* them.
It's evident that there are lots of real commercial neons in Blade Runner
(Jovan, Schlitz, Budweiser, Atari...), but it's also inquestionable that
some of the neons were made *exclusively* for the production, like Animart's
or Snake Pit's. And just like the Snake Pit, The White Dragon is one of the
fully featured places in the movie, so it's logical to think that it was
designed a logo and a sign for it. In fact, we know at least that it has an
anagram of its own (we can see it in the bar's interior, the words "the
white dragon" in a futuristic typography).
You talk about "three or four seconds it's on the screen", but this is not
true. The dragon neon does not appear one time in the movie, but many times
along it, and if you add up all these times, the result is much more than
three or four seconds.
Honestly, everything indicates that the White Dragon neon was made
exclusively for Blade Runner. And if we have the SAME dragon shape --a very
particular shape-- in an historic place whose decoration is inspired in the
noir style of 1940's detective movies, I think that it's at least *highly
probable* that someone was inspired in this one to create the White Dragon
neon.
WEKurtz--------------------------------
"Gnomus" <gno...@gte.net> escribió en el mensaje
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Gnomus
This is why I wish FN had an index. I can never find stuff in there
when I want it. I knew they had people specifically looking after the
neon; I thought Sammon named one person who was in charge (in Hollywood,
there's always somebody in charge).
>
> You talk about "three or four seconds it's on the screen", but this is not
> true. The dragon neon does not appear one time in the movie, but many times
> along it, and if you add up all these times, the result is much more than
> three or four seconds.
It appears at the very beginning of the noodle bar scene, and the camera
swoops past it. It's the only time it dominates the frame, if I
remember correctly. Where else does it appear, and is it in the background?
I guess it's time to watch BR again and focus specifically on the neon.
>
> Honestly, everything indicates that the White Dragon neon was made
> exclusively for Blade Runner. And if we have the SAME dragon shape --a very
> particular shape-- in an historic place whose decoration is inspired in the
> noir style of 1940's detective movies, I think that it's at least *highly
> probable* that someone was inspired in this one to create the White Dragon
> neon.
>
> WEKurtz--------------------------------
And we're unlikely to ever know for sure...
In researching "neon" I found that L.A. has a museum called The Museum
of Neon Art that offers bus tours of some of the finer neon in the area.
I'll have to check them out.
Gnomus
WEKurtz
> swoops past it. It's the only time it dominates the frame, if I
> remember correctly. Where else does it appear, and is it in the
background?
I would have to view BR again to be more specific in my answer, but now I
can remember it...
- At the mentioned scene where the camera aproximates Deckard for the first
time, passing besides the White Dragon.
- A little later, when we can see a policeman dispersing people before
Deckard enters Gaff's spinner.
- As one of the huge signs suspended in one of the buildings Deckard and
Gaff pass by in their flight to the Tyrell Corp.
- In the Zhora chase scene, behind Deckard, when he is running to the show
windows zhora is about to pass thru.
- In the Zhora chase scene, behind the pedestrian masses, among other neons.
- At the entrance of the Yukon hotel, when we can see Leon entering it from
above (aerial shot).
- In the shot just previous to the scene where can see Batty into the
vid-phön booth (a truck comes toward us).
These are the scenes I can remember now, but it's there are more for sure.
Larry Paul intended the White Dragon as a successful franchise of fast
japanese food, and that's the reason we can see the dragon logo everywhere,
which is, by the way, another good reason to think it was specifically
designed for the production.
> And we're unlikely to ever know for sure...
Now I'm looking for a complete-enough bio of Larry Paull (but it seems to
not exist in the Net!). If he was born, worked or lived in Ogden, Utah...
then the coincidences would be too many, and we could start to think that,
in fact, the Star Noodle neon was the inspiration for White Dragon's.
> In researching "neon" I found that L.A. has a museum called The Museum
> of Neon Art that offers bus tours of some of the finer neon in the area.
> I'll have to check them out.
Interesting indeed.
WEKurtz----------------------------------
Gnomus
>>It appears at the very beginning of the noodle bar scene, and the camera
>>swoops past it. It's the only time it dominates the frame, if I
>>remember correctly. Where else does it appear, and is it in the
>
> background?
>
> I would have to view BR again to be more specific in my answer, but now I
> can remember it...
>
> - At the mentioned scene where the camera aproximates Deckard for the first
> time, passing besides the White Dragon.
> - A little later, when we can see a policeman dispersing people before
> Deckard enters Gaff's spinner.
> - As one of the huge signs suspended in one of the buildings Deckard and
> Gaff pass by in their flight to the Tyrell Corp.
> - In the Zhora chase scene, behind Deckard, when he is running to the show
> windows zhora is about to pass thru.
> - In the Zhora chase scene, behind the pedestrian masses, among other neons.
> - At the entrance of the Yukon hotel, when we can see Leon entering it from
> above (aerial shot).
> - In the shot just previous to the scene where can see Batty into the
> vid-phön booth (a truck comes toward us).
>
> These are the scenes I can remember now, but it's there are more for sure.
Wow. If only I could see what you've seen with what I should have seen
-- wait, how does that go? Yes, I'll have to watch BR again. Rough
break for me!
>
> Larry Paul intended the White Dragon as a successful franchise of fast
> japanese food, and that's the reason we can see the dragon logo everywhere,
> which is, by the way, another good reason to think it was specifically
> designed for the production.
JadeDragon.com offers this interesting tidbit:
'In Japanese art the dragon is never totally visible. It is partially
hidden in swirling clouds or stormy waves, as "no mortal may look upon
its entire body and live."'
So the White Dragon sign is a Chinese design, not Japanese, if this is true.
>
>
>>And we're unlikely to ever know for sure...
>
>
> Now I'm looking for a complete-enough bio of Larry Paull (but it seems to
> not exist in the Net!). If he was born, worked or lived in Ogden, Utah...
> then the coincidences would be too many, and we could start to think that,
> in fact, the Star Noodle neon was the inspiration for White Dragon's.
The only thing I could find about him was that he went to college in
Arizona.
Gnomus