[Spoilers] BGC2040 eps. 16-24
Sarah Davis
contains episodes sixteen, and eighteen through twenty-four. Episode
seventeen wasn't included, and I think some parts of episodes eighteen may
have not been taped. Anyway, I've seen enough BGC2040 by now that I think I
can form a pretty informed opinion on the overall quality and direction of
the show.
First, though, some spoiler space for you people who click on messages with
spoiler warnings in the title and then persist in bitching about how you
were not given a fair warning.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
That ought to be sufficient.
I'll break this down into easily digested categories. A little order has
never hurt anyone before. I'll start with the basics and work my way into
the more important factors.
Animation: Ranges in quality. I'm not sure Leon has ever been animated well
during the run of the TV series, and animation of Nene tends to make her
hair look like a yellow plastic helmet planted at an odd angle on her head.
Linna suffers from a similar problem with her hair. But in general the
animation isn't bad, and some of it is very good. Fight scenes look much
better in the TV series than they do in the OVA series, IMHO. The movements
are faster and more fluid. Certain scenes are of very high quality, others
should have been given more attention. There's also the problem with Priss'
mouth movements *never* matching her voice while she's singing. It would
also have been nice if the animators had use a more innovative technique
than glowing green chests and eyes to indicate when Sylia and Mackie were
being attacked/possessed by Galatea.
Music: BGM has improved drastically from the first six episodes. In episode
twenty-four, Priss even sings a little a cappella number ("Journey," from
"Collectors File 1999"). They reuse a few soft BGM tracks far too often,
though.
Mecha: The Boomers look like BGCrash! rejects for the most part. There is
one enormous Boomer that Linna destroys around episode twenty or twenty-one
that looks neat, but the sheer size of the thing made it laughable. Couldn't
they *attempt* to make the viewers not cringe and convulse? Some of these
Boomers and their fusion capabilities made Frederick from OVA episode one
seem plausible. And the redesigned Hardsuits are truly, honestly, completely
the ugliest mecha I have ever seen. I mean, I could have designed something
better when I was six. They are amateurish, clunky, and make the BGCrash!
Hardsuits look golden by comparison.
Action: Sometimes jaw-dropping, but in a few cases the action sequences
leave A LOT to be desired, such as a scene where Leon and Daley's patrol car
is fused to the above monster Boomer and they start shooting it in the face.
This was embarrassing. Another example is when Priss was saving the other
three from one of all too many monstrosities.
Plot: Suspension of disbelief is IMPOSSIBLE. In episode twenty-three,
Galatea turns all of Genom into a massive spaceship and blasts off into
space. You have to see it to know how dumb it looks. And all of Tokyo has
been evacuated! I'm sorry, but the little group of derelicts doesn't work
for me. They could have tried harder. And there's a scene where Mackie uses
his power to stop Galatea from engulfing Sylia, Priss, and Linna in her
Tower of Doom. This was laughably bad. I could write out a sprawling list of
all the things that made me guffaw, grimace, and wince, but that would take
too long. Suffice it to say they should have put a lot more thought into
filling these plotholes.
Characters: I really don't care for Linna or Nene, and Leon is *worse* than
he was before. Daley and the Chief (can't remember his name) weren't bad,
and both are more interesting than the original Daley and Chief Toudou ever
were. The series also isn't killing off minor characters every time they
appear just to shock and audience and mist up some eyes. Secondary cast
members survive! Wow! I didn't know that could happen... But as far as
characters go, currently the only ones I find interesting are Galatea,
Sylia, Mason, and Mackie. As for the rest, I could live without them. Sylia
is the only character who deals with her emotions in an even remotely
believable way, Mason has actual motives and a *personality* now, Mackie is
doing stuff rather than just sitting back and glancing down girls' tops, and
Galatea is cool (albeit dressed EXACTLY like Ifurita). But there is one
definite problem, which is that the characters are, with one or two
exceptions, ALL IDIOTS. They stand around beckoning to each other and using
one another's names in front of police officers. Nene, who was only a meter
or so away from the ADP Chief, was talking to Linna, announcing she was a
Knight Saber, and basically acting like a dolt. Priss and Linna weren't any
smarter. Is Sylia the *only* competent Knight Saber this time?
Relationships: Mason and Galatea take the cake. Sylia and Nigel are kind of
interesting. Mackie and Nene are predictably cute and uninteresting. Priss
and Leon make me want to vomit. It was *so* hard for me not to fastforward
through their tedious scenes. Linna is in luck, for she has no relationships
of relevance and therefore doesn't make it onto my black list. There *is* a
funny scene in which Linna laments being the only one in a drunken orgy who
doesn't have a boyfriend, at which point geezerly Meshio slides in smoothly
behind her and offers her a drink.
Fanservice: BGC OVA had almost no fanservice, especially by the standards of
Babes in Battlesuits anime. The TV series takes advantage of every scene to
flash some girl's breasts, buttocks, or other "naughty parts." Sylia spends
half her time in a very short pink robe that sometimes gapes open, revealing
her bosom for all the world to see. Priss' outfit gets ripped open at the
front when she is attacked by killer toy clowns that chew on her. Nene and
Linna are both shown naked as they await their new Hardsuits. It get *very*
annoying.
Other:
Sylia will make a pass at anything that moves. She hit on Nene and Priss (to
say nothing of Nigel). BUT most of this seems to be because she enjoys
watching characters squirm uncomfortably as she teases them. It uses to
bother me, but not it's a little humorous.
Speaking of Sylia hitting things... By far the most lethal combatant of any
of the BGC series is the TV incarnation of Sylia. She's *scary* when she
gets to the battlefield.
Sylia's previous Knight Sabers are shown getting killed, conveniently at the
same time. But we catch a glimpse of OVA-esque Sylia as she stands back and
watches silently as her teammates are annihilated, *then* unsheathes her
blade and goes in for the kill.
In one episode, repeated shots of Galatea reading a book are shown. I
assumed it was a children's storybook, as she was humming and flipping
through the pages, but a close-up shot showed left-to-right text in two
columns on each page. In other words, Galatea was reading the Bible. She
also mentioned "Kama-sama." Either she wants to reach God, or she wants to
*be* God. I'm not sure.
Mason was a sickly little boy who didn't get to play basketball with the
other children. This pissed Mason off. Mason is out for revenge. Mason does
not get revenge because Galatea turns him into a moaning ornament jutting
out from the side of Genom. It's gruesome but neat.
In general I enjoyed the episodes I was watching, but some of the battle
scenes were pointless and others were laugh-out-loud funny (which is a bad
thing). Only a handful of characters didn't make me want to throw things at
the screen, but I could say the same for most series that I've watched
recently. If the writers had put more effort into making a coherent, logical
story, I would have liked it more than I do now, but this isn't as bad as I
had thought it would be.
Sarah
Lipolizard
>quote snipped<
Just got back from Animazement and to tired to reply to this post in depth and
I have to be at roll call at the crack of dawn so, therefore, here is a quick
4X High-Speed response with
MANY SPOILERS
Bzzz bzzzz bzzzzNewbies be warned bzz bzzz Sarah bzzz bzzz bzzzz old and bitter
bzzz bzzz bzzz Leon & Dailey KNOW who the Knight Sabers are, Leon learned in
15, Dailey in 17 bzz bzz bzzz... the character whose name you can't remember is
Nick Roland and he's not the Chief, he's the head of Detectives... and that's
not the Chief who Nene is talking next to in the scene I think you're refrering
to, either, it's the senior communications officer, whom, the dialoge makes
perfectly clear, has no idea what Nene is doing. The real chief, Chief Miles,
only shows up as an image on a monitor screen... bzz bzzz bzzz...the GENOM
facility was designed to do that, look at how the Dragon was supposed to work,
the ballistrude structure and listen to the Chairman's monologues about ruling
Earth from above. Besides, the director did the same thing in Sol Bianca... bzz
bzz bzzz Why wouldn't they evacuate Tokyo, under the circumstances? bzz bzz
bzzz What do you mean there was no fan service in the original BGC
series????bzzz bzzzbzzz selective memory bzz bzzz bzzz It's the only show I've
ever seen where they actually re-used the fan service bzz bzz bzzz Sylia's not
doing it just to make them squirm, it's a plot point as is made clear in the
dialog.... bzz bzzz bzzz how can you judge the coherency of the story when you
obviously have no idea what the characters are saying?
Good Knight
This post also makes a zesty salad. Print four copies onto standard 8 1/2 X 11
letter size paper and shred into a small bowl. Top with mayonaise or your
favorite pre-prepared dressing. For a festive touch, use colored printing
papers.
Sarah Davis
Lipolizard wrote in message
<20000313002956...@ng-de1.aol.com>...
>>"Sarah Davis" sdavis...@penpen.com wrote:
>
>>quote snipped<
>
>Just got back from Animazement and to tired to reply to this post in depth
and
>I have to be at roll call at the crack of dawn so, therefore, here is a
quick
>4X High-Speed response with
>
>MANY SPOILERS
>
>
>Bzzz bzzzz bzzzzNewbies be warned bzz bzzz Sarah bzzz bzzz bzzzz old and
bitter
At least I'm not young and stupid.
>bzzz bzzz bzzz Leon & Dailey KNOW who the Knight Sabers are, Leon learned
in
>15, Dailey in 17 bzz bzz bzzz...
Yes, I could tell that they knew. That's what I didn't like. None of them
seemed to care to keep it a secret. I could understand revealing their faces
when the group of people mistook them for Boomers later on, but when Nene
hangs around other police officers and makes it painfully clear that she
knows who Linna is and that Linna knows who she is, I don't like it.
> the character whose name you can't remember is
>Nick Roland and he's not the Chief, he's the head of Detectives...
All right. Minor flaw in my wording.
>and that's
>not the Chief who Nene is talking next to in the scene I think you're
refrering
>to, either, it's the senior communications officer, whom, the dialoge makes
>perfectly clear, has no idea what Nene is doing.
Yet it seems so absolutely braindead of her to speak to Linna in front of
police officers, don't you think? Especially using her name rather than
trying to pretend she's just attempting to help someone who might be able to
solve their mutual problem. The scene made me cringe.
>The real chief, Chief Miles,
>only shows up as an image on a monitor screen... bzz bzzz bzzz...
What is this buzzing?
>the GENOM
>facility was designed to do that, look at how the Dragon was supposed to
work,
>the ballistrude structure and listen to the Chairman's monologues about
ruling
>Earth from above. Besides, the director did the same thing in Sol Bianca...
So? I never said "Sol Bianca" was an amazingly good anime. All I said was
that it looked dumb when Genom rose out of the ground and took off into the
space. I don't care how it's designed or what logic there is behind Genom
blasting off into outerspace. The point is I didn't buy it as being
plausible.
>bzz
>bzz bzzz Why wouldn't they evacuate Tokyo, under the circumstances?
Oh, they'd call for an evacuation, but how likely is it that Tokyo would
really be so empty? There was no traffic, no signs of life aside from the
group of people who had assembled.
>bzz bzz
>bzzz What do you mean there was no fan service in the original BGC
>series????bzzz bzzzbzzz selective memory bzz bzzz bzzz It's the only show
I've
>ever seen where they actually re-used the fan service bzz bzz bzzz
I said there was not much fanservice. I didn't say there was none. There
were four scenes with nudity in the entire series, one of which served to
make sense of the plot. BGC2040 flashes breasts and buns every chance it
gets, from suit-up sequences to Priss losing her shirt when the sinister toy
clowns attacked her to gaping shirt neckholes that left little to the
imagination.
>Sylia's not
>doing it just to make them squirm, it's a plot point as is made clear in
the
>dialog....
Are you saying she *doesn't* get a kick out of watching Nene blush and
squeal? Plot point or not, she seems to have fun flirting. I didn't say this
was a bad thing.
>bzz bzzz bzzz how can you judge the coherency of the story when you
>obviously have no idea what the characters are saying?
I didn't say the plot was incoherent anywhere in my post. I said "suspension
of disbelief is impossible" and that certain scenes and ideas were, IMHO,
badly executed and could have been done better, but I also said that for the
most part I enjoyed what I saw and didn't rip into it nearly enough to
warrant you calling me "old and bitter."
Sarah
Aaron Brooks
^__^
just kiddin heheehe.
I can't say much, because I have only seen up to episode 6. So far though,
I can say that I am pretty disappointed, and it looks like it will be a
continuing trend.
My goodness. They should have come here and recruited some of the fanfic
authors to write the story. That would have been much nicer.
Oioioi. Ma iika!
Have fun, be good, don't do drugs.
Aaron
Benjamin D. Hutchins
Aaron Brooks <hitokiri....@gte.net> wrote:
>
>My goodness. They should have come here and recruited some of the fanfic
>authors to write the story. That would have been much nicer.
>
Thank you... now I'm envisioning what it would have been like if ALL
the fanfic authors had been involved... it reads less like a TV series
and more like "Robot Carnival" with cute girls.
I participated in a story-by-committee on a BBS some of my college
friends ran, back in the day. Someone would post, leaving events at
a cliffhanger, then somebody else would post and leave events at
another cliffhanger, and so on. It was fun to watch the internal
politics of the BBS distort the story - one of us who was really way
too impressed with Lovecraft would invariable introduce some slimy,
mind-shattering thing, and then the next poster would reveal it to
have been a guy in a rubber suit just to frustrate him, and so forth -
but the story itself is pretty heavy on the wacked-out factor. At one
point a post-overlap problem ended up creating two sets of all the
characters, which made the cast very crowded for the rest of the
story... :)
--G.
those were the days.
--
_O_ Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder, Continuity Line Editor, webmaster
[. .] Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><-
- Cyberleader Darul says: "0 dB SPL is the lowest level of 1KHz tone
the average person can detect." WWW: http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
C. A. Reed Jr.
newsgroup:
>Aaron Brooks <hitokiri....@gte.net> wrote:
>>
>>My goodness. They should have come here and recruited some of the fanfic
>>authors to write the story. That would have been much nicer.
>>
>
>Thank you... now I'm envisioning what it would have been like if ALL
>the fanfic authors had been involved... it reads less like a TV series
>and more like "Robot Carnival" with cute girls.
>
>I participated in a story-by-committee on a BBS some of my college
>friends ran, back in the day. Someone would post, leaving events at
>a cliffhanger, then somebody else would post and leave events at
>another cliffhanger, and so on. It was fun to watch the internal
>politics of the BBS distort the story - one of us who was really way
>too impressed with Lovecraft would invariable introduce some slimy,
>mind-shattering thing, and then the next poster would reveal it to
>have been a guy in a rubber suit just to frustrate him, and so forth -
>but the story itself is pretty heavy on the wacked-out factor. At one
>point a post-overlap problem ended up creating two sets of all the
>characters, which made the cast very crowded for the rest of the
>story... :)
>
>--G.
>those were the days.
There's a Internet group that writes Dr Who stories the same way - 10 to 12
people writing a chapter each. A couple turned out great, most were OK, but a
couple......
One story had a race of granny-like creatures with rollar skates instead of
feet, with an attude that made Daleks cute and cuddly in comparison......
A couple read like it had been written while everyone was on drugs, while
others were even stranger then that.....
Gaffney knows what I mean......
C. A. Reed Jr. - remove the military emplacement from my Emaill
http://members.aol.com/trboturtle Update -12/30/99
Bubblegum Crucible & Battletech stories.
Sarah Davis
Aaron Brooks wrote in message ...
>ahh! you could have told us you were gonna spoil it!
>
>^__^
>
> just kiddin heheehe.
I *must* be cautious. I once got flamed by people who hadn't even read my
post because I didn't give adequate spoiler space. Adequate, meaning, so
much that people who don't mind spoilers were annoyed that so much was
given...
>I can't say much, because I have only seen up to episode 6. So far
though,
>I can say that I am pretty disappointed, and it looks like it will be a
>continuing trend.
The only problems I have with it are Linna, what I consider to be a gross
lack of realism, corny romances, and the fanservice. The plot, when you
strip away the cheese, isn't bad at all, and some of the characters are very
well written. And the secondary cast members don't get offed all the time...
This I found to be a rather pleasant change, as BGC episodes two and three
were thematically and structurally *identical* to each other.
>My goodness. They should have come here and recruited some of the fanfic
>authors to write the story. That would have been much nicer.
Last April first someone wrote an April Fools' Day post that summarized a
false ending for the series. It was so convincing that several people were
giddy about it. Then it turned out it wasn't the real ending. It was,
however, disturbingly close to the real ending, at least in some ways.
Sarah
Julian Fong
>The only problems I have with it are Linna, what I consider to be a gross
>lack of realism, corny romances, and the fanservice. The plot, when you
>strip away the cheese, isn't bad at all, and some of the characters are very
>well written. And the secondary cast members don't get offed all the time...
>This I found to be a rather pleasant change, as BGC episodes two and three
>were thematically and structurally *identical* to each other.
You were talking about Tokyo being evacuated? Ever notice that the
streets of Tokyo almost always look practically deserted every time we
see them on 2040? I know they're operating on a TV budget, but still,
the setting just doesn't seem real to me... the backgrounds look like
movie sets. That's the one of the biggest problems I have with the show.
>>My goodness. They should have come here and recruited some of the fanfic
>>authors to write the story. That would have been much nicer.
>Last April first someone wrote an April Fools' Day post that summarized a
>false ending for the series. It was so convincing that several people were
>giddy about it. Then it turned out it wasn't the real ending. It was,
>however, disturbingly close to the real ending, at least in some ways.
I think TenchiKen's post was a *better* ending than the real thing,
from they way you describe it. (Come to think of it, he was also the
one who speculated shortly after El-Hazard: The Alternative World
started airing that Cretaria was the civilization in the past of
El-Hazard that built the Eye of God, and Qawoor would end up becoming
the prototype for Ifurita, which would have been a hell of a lot better
than the way that series actually ended.)
--
Julian Fong - jhf...@aol.comextrabit -- http://jhfong.dragonfire.net/
00001000111110000100010000000011111111100001000100001111100010000
"I will chide no breather in the world but myself, against whom I know
most faults." - William Shakespeare, _As You Like It_, Act 3, Scene 2
Rob Kelk
<snip>
> >My goodness. They should have come here and recruited some of the fanfic
> >authors to write the story. That would have been much nicer.
>
> Last April first someone wrote an April Fools' Day post that summarized a
> false ending for the series. It was so convincing that several people were
> giddy about it. Then it turned out it wasn't the real ending. It was,
> however, disturbingly close to the real ending, at least in some ways.
>
> Sarah
Please tell me that wasn't my April Fools' post. All I did was re-hash
the ending to BGCrash...
--
Rob Kelk http://members.tripod.com/~robkelk/ rob...@ottawa.com
"I'm _not_ a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
Sarah Davis
Rob Kelk wrote in message <38D0E935...@ottawa.com>...
>Sarah Davis <sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>>
>> Aaron Brooks wrote in message ...
>
><snip>
>
>> >My goodness. They should have come here and recruited some of the
fanfic
>> >authors to write the story. That would have been much nicer.
>>
>> Last April first someone wrote an April Fools' Day post that summarized a
>> false ending for the series. It was so convincing that several people
were
>> giddy about it. Then it turned out it wasn't the real ending. It was,
>> however, disturbingly close to the real ending, at least in some ways.
>
>the ending to BGCrash...
I think it was Tenchiken's April Fools' post. My memories of it were revived
while I was watching the TV series and thought to myself, "God, this seems
awfully familiar... Oh, wait, I already read the synopsis on afbgc before
the series even ended in Japan." Then the wheels started turning and I
remembered Tenchiken's ESP experience.
Sarah
Sarah Davis
Julian Fong wrote in message
<20000316033230...@ng-da1.aol.com>...
>You were talking about Tokyo being evacuated? Ever notice that the
>streets of Tokyo almost always look practically deserted every time we
>see them on 2040? I know they're operating on a TV budget, but still,
>the setting just doesn't seem real to me... the backgrounds look like
>movie sets. That's the one of the biggest problems I have with the show.
Remember in "Red Eyes" when Priss passed Largo and Anri on a practically
deserted road, and how later, on the same road, there was no one there
except Leon to witness Largo commanding the particle beam satellites? Or how
there was no one present to see Sylia and Nene change from their Hardsuits
to their streetclothes in episode one? It's the same thing. City scenes are
seldom filmed/animated convincingly. I recently watched a movie about
Seattle in which there were all of three cars shown passing the main
character's vehicle as he was driving, yet Seattle is tied with LA for worst
traffic in the nation. BGC OVA did a better job of depicting a bustling,
overcrowded atmosphere than the TV series did, but it still fell short
several key times. BGC2040 seems to have had a budget problem that
contributed to this. BGC OVA had a plot contrivance problem.
>I think TenchiKen's post was a *better* ending than the real thing,
>from they way you describe it. (Come to think of it, he was also the
>one who speculated shortly after El-Hazard: The Alternative World
>started airing that Cretaria was the civilization in the past of
>El-Hazard that built the Eye of God, and Qawoor would end up becoming
>the prototype for Ifurita, which would have been a hell of a lot better
>than the way that series actually ended.)
It's really no surprise. I've read fanfictions that make me wonder why the
creators of any given series didn't put a good idea to use. I still like my
absurd fanfiction explanation for the Second Great Kanto Earthquake...
Anyway, often fans, who in many ways are more into a series than the creator
is, will come up with improved versions of the story, or at least more
*detailed*, enjoyable versions.
Sarah
Benjamin D. Hutchins
Sarah Davis <sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
>It's really no surprise. I've read fanfictions that make me wonder why the
>creators of any given series didn't put a good idea to use. I still like my
>absurd fanfiction explanation for the Second Great Kanto Earthquake...
Heh - you have one too?
Way back when, before the notion of doing a BGC fic ever occurred to
me, I noted the rather un-earthquake-damage-looking stripe of
destruction across the middle of Mega Tokyo and decided,
"Earthquake my ass - that was Gojira. Government cover-up, anyone?"
:)
--G.
ANS709
explanation....
maybe people are just afraid to go out because of all the Boomer rampages out
there....maybe, maybe not, it's your call ;)
Amanda
Sarah Davis
ANS709 wrote in message <20000316191203...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
OVA or TV?
OVA: Probably not. Boomers with fried circuits may be common, but serious
rampages probably aren't. The BU-55C in episode one and BU-12B in episode
three proved that the ADP was inexperienced insofar as a combat Boomer was
concerned. The first Boomer battle in ADPF showed them struggling with a
simple labor machine that was easily disposed-of once the police figured out
what they were doing. We also don't see much in the way of powerful Boomers
striking out in the middle of the city in the OVA series. Most of them (F.G.
Frederick, SuperBoomer, firefight at Genom Tower) are confined to a location
where the affect on the general public will be unimpressive. Up until
episode eight we don't see any Boomers attacking civilians for the sake of
attacking them, and those occurences were strange enough for Sylia to get
paranoid about it and start checking things out with Fargo.
TV: It's a possibility. If only because it is longer, the TV series shows
more Boomers running wild on the streets of Tokyo. Still, the level of
damage that the average Boomer inflicts on its workplace, home, or elsewhere
is probably not enough to frighten a major city into submission.
So in both cases my guess is that it was just the animators being lazy.
Sarah
Shadow6865
Thank you... now I'm envisioning what it would have been like if ALL
the fanfic authors had been involved... it reads less like a TV series
and more like "Robot Carnival" with cute girls. >>
Hey! Some of us really liked Robot Carnival!
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
> better in the TV series than they do in the OVA series, IMHO. The movements
> are faster and more fluid.
ha..ha...ha. ova has some of the most remarkable actions scene ever--in
the context of entire cinema history--and sarah says she likes the
videogame candywrapping style of the tv series. ha..ha..ha.
you need to study cinema a little more closely.
peckinpah is a good place to begin. leone, kurosawa, eisenstein(esp in
alexander nevsky) also.
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
I recently watched a movie about
> Seattle in which there were all of three cars shown passing the main
> character's vehicle as he was driving, yet Seattle is tied with LA for worst
> traffic in the nation.
which movie? and i'm sure the traffic jams only occur during the rush
hour.
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
> Babes in Battlesuits anime. The TV series takes advantage of every scene to
> flash some girl's breasts, buttocks, or other "naughty parts." Sylia spends
> half her time in a very short pink robe that sometimes gapes open, revealing
> her bosom for all the world to see. Priss' outfit gets ripped open at the
> front when she is attacked by killer toy clowns that chew on her. Nene and
> Linna are both shown naked as they await their new Hardsuits. It get *very*
> annoying.
at least 2040 has SOMETHING WORTH WATCHING!
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message
<9IlA4.54676$Mg.7...@c01read03-admin.service.talkway.com>...
>Fight scenes look much
>> better in the TV series than they do in the OVA series, IMHO. The
movements
>> are faster and more fluid.
>
>the context of entire cinema history--and sarah says she likes the
>videogame candywrapping style of the tv series. ha..ha..ha.
Oh, I never said the OVA had *bad* fight scenes, but I enjoy the fast, fluid
motion in the TV series. In some scenes it's overdone to the point that I
couldn't believe the action I was watching, but at other times watching the
characters in action is quite impressive.
>you need to study cinema a little more closely.
I'm not as cinematically-challenged as you seem to think. I know good
animation when I see it, and BGC2040's animation during action scenes is
good. If you were to place aside your bias for half a second (which,
obviously, you cannot) you might be able to appreciate them. Disliking the
series is one thing, but disliking every damn aspect of the series just
because the title itself bugs you is petty.
Sarah
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
> EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message
> <9IlA4.54676$Mg.7...@c01read03-admin.service.talkway.com>...
> >> better in the TV series than they do in the OVA series, IMHO. The
> movements
> >> are faster and more fluid.
> >
> >the context of entire cinema history--and sarah says she likes the
> >videogame candywrapping style of the tv series. ha..ha..ha.
>
> Oh, I never said the OVA had *bad* fight scenes, but I enjoy the fast, fluid
> motion in the TV series. In some scenes it's overdone to the point that I
> couldn't believe the action I was watching, but at other times watching the
> characters in action is quite impressive.
tv series sucks in every way. the action scenes are retarded and based
on video games. it's gimpy and without form or structure, just a lot
of zip zap and noise.
>
> >you need to study cinema a little more closely.
>
> I'm not as cinematically-challenged as you seem to think. I know good
> animation when I see it, and BGC2040's animation during action scenes is
> good.
no it aint. i saw episodes 1-3 and they sucked big time. saturday
morning cartoons have better action scenes.
If you were to place aside your bias for half a second (which,
> obviously, you cannot) you might be able to appreciate them. Disliking the
> series is one thing, but disliking every damn aspect of the series just
> because the title itself bugs you is petty.
>
what bias? i like to enjoy what i'm watching so as not to feel i'm
wasting precious time. but 2040 is a big waste for everyone. people
credited as its creators ought to be blindfolded and shot. me biased?
ha!
ANS709
probably =/
Amanda
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:24:46 GMT "Sarah Davis"
><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oh, I never said the OVA had *bad* fight scenes, but I enjoy the fast,
fluid
>> motion in the TV series. In some scenes it's overdone to the point that I
>> couldn't believe the action I was watching, but at other times watching
the
>> characters in action is quite impressive.
>
>tv series sucks in every way. the action scenes are retarded and based
>on video games. it's gimpy and without form or structure, just a lot
>of zip zap and noise.
And the scene in episode seven of Priss versus the Genki was *literally*
retarded. I couldn't believe how slow everything happened. BGC2040 may use
too much speed, but BGC OVA didn't use nearly enough. I *laughed* the first
time I saw Priss' needle move at three miles per hour when she fired it at
Largo in episode six.
>> I'm not as cinematically-challenged as you seem to think. I know good
>> animation when I see it, and BGC2040's animation during action scenes is
>> good.
>
>no it aint. i saw episodes 1-3 and they sucked big time. saturday
>morning cartoons have better action scenes.
They don't. And you can hardly judge the quality of a show's animation from
the first three episodes alone. The interesting combat sequences don't start
until well after that.
Sarah
ANS709
>retarded. I couldn't believe how slow everything happened. BGC2040 may use
>too much speed, but BGC OVA didn't use nearly enough. I *laughed* the first
>time I saw Priss' needle move at three miles per hour when she fired it at
>Largo in episode six.
>
you, Sarah, of all people, i thought would have heard of "slow motion"...the
animators just showed it like that probably to increase suspense or what
not...i don't think it was actually going *that* slow =/
Amanda
Disruptor
Sarah Davis
ANS709 wrote in message <20000317203540...@ng-fo1.aol.com>...
They overused the technique in the OVAs. In almost every single episode they
slowed down the motion during a fight scene. When Priss was charging the
SuperBoomer, when the Genki was whipping her around, as she finally went to
kill Sylvie and the Motoroid was destroyed, when she fired her needle at
Largo... Slow motion ought to be used sparingly, but in BGC, especially
during Priss' scenes, the action was *sluggish* so frequently that it became
old hat within a few episodes. While the action itself isn't occurring at
such a ridiculously slow pace, the fact that it looks that way SO OFTEN robs
it of whatever capacity it had to increase tension and suspense. In the
worlds of direction and storyboarding, the animators seem to have missed a
few lessons.
Sarah
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
> EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
> >On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:24:46 GMT "Sarah Davis"
> ><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh, I never said the OVA had *bad* fight scenes, but I enjoy the fast,
> fluid
> >> motion in the TV series. In some scenes it's overdone to the point that I
> >> couldn't believe the action I was watching, but at other times watching
> the
> >> characters in action is quite impressive.
> >
> >tv series sucks in every way. the action scenes are retarded and based
> >on video games. it's gimpy and without form or structure, just a lot
> >of zip zap and noise.
>
> retarded.
that was cool! you must be going blind. to help you i wanna start the
'save sarah from blindness fund'.
I couldn't believe how slow everything happened. BGC2040 may use
> too much speed, but BGC OVA didn't use nearly enough.
what? not fast enough? how fast do you drive? 65 speed limit too slow
for you?
I *laughed* the first
> time I saw Priss' needle move at three miles per hour when she fired it at
> Largo in episode six.
that was a cinematic effect, not actual time...like slo-motion or rapid
editing. and it's closer to psychological time than actual time.
movies are not reality but a shaping of reality for effect.
>
> >> I'm not as cinematically-challenged as you seem to think. I know good
> >> animation when I see it, and BGC2040's animation during action scenes is
> >> good.
> >
> >no it aint. i saw episodes 1-3 and they sucked big time. saturday
> >morning cartoons have better action scenes.
>
> They don't. And you can hardly judge the quality of a show's animation from
> the first three episodes alone. The interesting combat sequences don't start
> until well after that.
>
i too can judge quality of the entire crap by the first few inches.
and it stinks.
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:53:04 GMT "Sarah Davis"
><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
>> And the scene in episode seven of Priss versus the Genki was *literally*
>> retarded.
>
>that was cool! you must be going blind. to help you i wanna start the
>'save sarah from blindness fund'.
You think it was cool. As an effect, I say it was overused.
>> I couldn't believe how slow everything happened. BGC2040 may use
>> too much speed, but BGC OVA didn't use nearly enough.
>
>what? not fast enough? how fast do you drive? 65 speed limit too slow
>for you?
Certain fights scenes are at reasonable speed. Others, however, were slowed
down for effect. All the action in episode seven was unconvincing, IMHO.
Other scenes seemed to take forever to get done what should have happened in
a split second. I don't care if the slow-motion is for drama, for effect, or
just because cels are expensive to paint. I. Don't. Like. It. I thought it
was beautiful watching Linna flip away from the Boomer in episode eight.
That's the sort of thing I like. Animation as a visual medium ought not rely
on using a single effect over and over again when there are SO MANY effects
to be used.
> I *laughed* the first
>> time I saw Priss' needle move at three miles per hour when she fired it
at
>> Largo in episode six.
>
>that was a cinematic effect, not actual time...
No kidding.
>like slo-motion or rapid
>editing. and it's closer to psychological time than actual time.
>movies are not reality but a shaping of reality for effect.
I think it's time to face a simple fact: Animation techniques have, in some
ways, improved. While in general I prefer the animation style, format, etc.,
of the OVAs, I think some action scenes in BGC2040 are better animated. They
aren't great action scenes -- there's no power to them since most of them
are face-offs against the Monster of the Week and lack that certain
something that a real foe such as Largo had. Nevertheless, I really like
watching some of the scenes. The problem is that while the animation itself
is good, the actual scenes aren't all that interesting and they reuse ideas.
(How many times must we see a 2040 Knight Saber get eveloped by her
opponent? Ugh.) I wouldn't call them inspired, but they aren't half as bad
as you're making them sound.
Sarah
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
> EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
> >On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:53:04 GMT "Sarah Davis"
> ><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
> >
> >> And the scene in episode seven of Priss versus the Genki was *literally*
> >> retarded.
> >
> >that was cool! you must be going blind. to help you i wanna start the
> >'save sarah from blindness fund'.
>
> You think it was cool. As an effect, I say it was overused.
overused in anime as a whole. but nothing was ever wasted in the ovas,
perhaps the most economically executed great work in anime history.
every effect was so carefully planned with surgical precision and
executed with such deftness, i can't any one effect was overused in
crisis.
the question is never has the effect been overused. leone's spaghetti
westerns were imitated by 1000's of other spaghettis(no, i am not
kidding: there were 1000s of imitation spaghettis in the 60s and early
70s). but leone's 4 great spaghettis(the eastwood trilogy and the
stunning masterwork 'once upon a time in the west)are as fresh today as
they ever were.
one can say the same of the wild bunch. there have been a zillion
peckinpah imitators and imitations but the wild bunch will and can
never be forgotten.
paul seydor's analysis of the significance of peckinpah's filmic style
can be found in 'peckinpah's western films' and it's brilliant stuff.
>
> >> I couldn't believe how slow everything happened. BGC2040 may use
> >> too much speed, but BGC OVA didn't use nearly enough.
> >
> >what? not fast enough? how fast do you drive? 65 speed limit too slow
> >for you?
>
> Certain fights scenes are at reasonable speed. Others, however, were slowed
> down for effect. All the action in episode seven was unconvincing, IMHO.
seven isn't my favorite either. i didn't care too much for mcclaren as
a villain--the superscientist struck us as too stupid. and his big
monster looked like a cyborg hired by wwf.
but the attack in houston and priss's confrontation with the big crab
were exciting stuff. the final battle was a bit predictable and too
easily resolved...just like the moral issues. still, #7 is still
better than 99% of anime.
> Other scenes seemed to take forever to get done what should have happened in
> a split second. I don't care if the slow-motion is for drama, for effect, or
> just because cels are expensive to paint. I. Don't. Like. It. I thought it
> was beautiful watching Linna flip away from the Boomer in episode eight.
> That's the sort of thing I like. Animation as a visual medium ought not rely
> on using a single effect over and over again when there are SO MANY effects
> to be used.
animation involving linna doing the back flip in #8 was technically
accomplished since someone in the ng told us how hard it was to create
that effect. but beside the difficulty of the animation process, it
was simply linna doing a back flip. big deal! had it been
live-action, who have have raised an eyebrow?
and crisis did NOT over-use effects ad nauseum. i'd say crisis utilized
effects economically for maximum effect...or r&b. like the WHO!!
>
> > I *laughed* the first
> >> time I saw Priss' needle move at three miles per hour when she fired it
> at
> >> Largo in episode six.
> >
> >that was a cinematic effect, not actual time...
>
> No kidding.
then why raise the fuss in the first place?
>
> >like slo-motion or rapid
> >editing. and it's closer to psychological time than actual time.
> >movies are not reality but a shaping of reality for effect.
>
> I think it's time to face a simple fact: Animation techniques have, in some
> ways, improved.
not evident in 2040. 2040 is a reversal in quality in every
department. it is simply the worst anime ever! i'll take sailor moon
over 2040.
While in general I prefer the animation style, format, etc.,
> of the OVAs, I think some action scenes in BGC2040 are better animated. They
> aren't great action scenes -- there's no power to them since most of them
> are face-offs against the Monster of the Week and lack that certain
> something that a real foe such as Largo had.
there wasn't one single second in the first three episodes that
convinced me that there is anything worth salvaging from 2040. it is
garbage. may galatea grab every 2040 tape, turn into a spaceship, and
fly away. good riddance, i'd say.
Nevertheless, I really like
> watching some of the scenes. The problem is that while the animation itself
> is good, the actual scenes aren't all that interesting and they reuse ideas.
> (How many times must we see a 2040 Knight Saber get eveloped by her
> opponent? Ugh.) I wouldn't call them inspired, but they aren't half as bad
> as you're making them sound.
>
> Sarah
>
>
they suck and i've havent even seen them. just imagine what i'd say if
i saw them. but episodes 1-3 were enough. life is short, why waste
any time on 2040?
i'd rather watch the reruns of the brady bunch. hmm, that's an idea.
the bubblegum bunch!
sylia with kids priss, linna, and nene get together with mason brady
with kids leon, largo, and mackey.
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
> ANS709 wrote in message <20000317203540...@ng-fo1.aol.com>...
> use
> >>too much speed, but BGC OVA didn't use nearly enough. I *laughed* the
> first
> >>time I saw Priss' needle move at three miles per hour when she fired it at
> >>Largo in episode six.
> >>
> >
> motion"...the
> >animators just showed it like that probably to increase suspense or what
> >not...i don't think it was actually going *that* slow =/
>
> They overused the technique in the OVAs. In almost every single episode they
> slowed down the motion during a fight scene. When Priss was charging the
> SuperBoomer, when the Genki was whipping her around, as she finally went to
> kill Sylvie and the Motoroid was destroyed, when she fired her needle at
> Largo... Slow motion ought to be used sparingly, but in BGC, especially
> during Priss' scenes, the action was *sluggish* so frequently that it became
> old hat within a few episodes. While the action itself isn't occurring at
> such a ridiculously slow pace, the fact that it looks that way SO OFTEN robs
> it of whatever capacity it had to increase tension and suspense. In the
> worlds of direction and storyboarding, the animators seem to have missed a
> few lessons.
>
> Sarah
>
>
hardly. slo-motion wasn't merely a visual condiment in crisis.. like a
dab of mustard on an hotdog. rather, crisis integrated slo-motion as
one of irreducible elements in the overall visual texture. slo-motion
in crisis wasn't merely slo-motion; rather it was part and parcel of
the atmosphere and tension of the bubblegum universe. like shadows
aren't merely an effect in film noir but an integral part of the genre.
who would complain that blade runner's set designs lean too much
toward darkness and gloom?
back once again to peckinpah... when he used slo-motion for the wild
bunch, he wasn't merely using it as an effect for cheap thrills. rather
he was trying to capture the very experience--both the thrill and
extreme dread--of violence. as a young marine in china, peckinpah
witnessed a man getting shot and said that moment--though it lasted a
split second--seemed like the longest moment in his life. and in his
films, he tried to approximate the sense of that very moment when the
perpetrator and the victim of violence leave the normal rhythm of the
world and enters, even if for a second, into an heightened sense of
existence, balancing between life and death, sanity and madness,
civility and savagery. he perfected this technique and though many
have imitated peckinpah, none have equaled him.
the wild bunch for example juxtaposes 'objective' reality with
heightened reality, sometimes in rapid succession, and the uneasy
synthesis of the two conveys the moral and otherwise ambiguity of the
world peckinpah is trying to portray. again, it wasn't just an
effect.. it was part of peckinpah's worldview.
same applies to bubblegum crisis. perhaps the key scene is priss in
the trailer in #6. depressed over sylvie, she stands for a long
instant staring at a poster depicting an happier and a more carefree
picture of herself. tension builds...then there is sudden violence and
she tears it off. though the scene doesn't use slo-motion, the effect
and mood created are similar. and, that's the kind of world crisis
gives us. mostly, it's a busy world of hustle and bustle, a zillon
cars on the streets, of cutthroat capitalism and loud music. but
there are times when individuals escape this routine and norm and come
in contact with another reality, another level of being; then,
(psychological)time works differently. you slip into another dimension
of consciousness. often, this state of consciousness is found with or
as a result of violence; and it can be triumphant and exhilirating or
tragic and exhausting. when largo knocks priss off ther bike in #6,
it's as though she slips into another world, another possibility,
connected to the 'real' world yet independent from it with a certain
private dignity.
and on a larger scale, bubblegum crisis is about TIME. time as
something easily manipulated as busy people trying to stay alive have
easily forgotten the past. in the sense that time lurches forward with
the fast advancement of technology. time as the thing man has
forgotten and as the thing whose pace is now beyond human power. so
when largo moves as though as he has all the time in the world, we
notice in every bit of his gestures that he isn't merely trying to have
the world. he's trying to own time. now, how could largo's grandiose
gestures and philosophy be expressed properly without slo-mo and the
related still-photography?
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
>On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 04:46:39 GMT "Sarah Davis"
><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
>> You think it was cool. As an effect, I say it was overused.
>
>overused in anime as a whole. but nothing was ever wasted in the ovas,
>perhaps the most economically executed great work in anime history.
>every effect was so carefully planned with surgical precision and
>executed with such deftness, i can't any one effect was overused in
>crisis.
Because you've idealized it, but I guess that isn't news to me.
>> Certain fights scenes are at reasonable speed. Others, however, were
slowed
>> down for effect. All the action in episode seven was unconvincing, IMHO.
>
>seven isn't my favorite either. i didn't care too much for mcclaren as
>a villain--the superscientist struck us as too stupid. and his big
>monster looked like a cyborg hired by wwf.
To be honest, I thought the ending of seven was the worst ending of any
episode except the eighth. Best ending goes to fifth, but that's off-topic
for this discussion...
>but the attack in houston and priss's confrontation with the big crab
>were exciting stuff. the final battle was a bit predictable and too
>easily resolved...just like the moral issues. still, #7 is still
>better than 99% of anime.
So you say. And I wholeheartedly disagree.
>animation involving linna doing the back flip in #8 was technically
>accomplished since someone in the ng told us how hard it was to create
>that effect. but beside the difficulty of the animation process, it
>was simply linna doing a back flip. big deal! had it been
>live-action, who have have raised an eyebrow?
My point was that it looked nice and it got down the quick, graceful
movements of Linna. Linna is known among anime fans in general, and not just
BGC fans, for being an athletic person. That scene illustrated, quite
literally, just how athletic Linna is. THAT is what it accomplished.
>and crisis did NOT over-use effects ad nauseum. i'd say crisis utilized
>effects economically for maximum effect...or r&b. like the WHO!!
BGC *did* overuse ideas, effects, concepts, and more. It even went so far as
to give Anri a death scene so hideously like Sylvie's that it was impossible
for me to feel bad for the little idiot.
>> > I *laughed* the first
>> >> time I saw Priss' needle move at three miles per hour when she fired
it
>> at
>> >> Largo in episode six.
>> >
>> >that was a cinematic effect, not actual time...
>>
>> No kidding.
>
>then why raise the fuss in the first place?
Because, as I've said *several* times, slow motion was overused. And I
dislike slow motion. In BGC and in every other form of film. Animation, live
action... You name it. I just don't like slowing things down for dramatic
effect. It doesn't work for me. BGC did it all the time, and that got on my
nerves.
>> I think it's time to face a simple fact: Animation techniques have, in
some
>> ways, improved.
>
>not evident in 2040. 2040 is a reversal in quality in every
>department. it is simply the worst anime ever! i'll take sailor moon
>over 2040.
BGC2040 is the worst anime, you say? Oops... Somebody hasn't seen "Tenshi Ni
Narumon," "Wedding Peach," "Battle Arena Toshinden," "Hyper Police..." The
list goes on for miles. If BGC2040 is the worst anime you've seen, you
obviously haven't watch many anime. It's far from being the best that I've
viewed, but it's definitely not the worst.
>there wasn't one single second in the first three episodes that
>convinced me that there is anything worth salvaging from 2040. it is
>garbage. may galatea grab every 2040 tape, turn into a spaceship, and
>fly away. good riddance, i'd say.
It's kind of a funny thought for a parody... But anyway, I think it is
probably a historically proven *fact* that the first episodes of any series
are not going to be the best. But so be it. You don't like BGC2040 and you
have valid reasons for feeling that way. It's your opinion. I don't care.
Hate it, burn the tapes, proclaim its inferiority from the mountain tops.
That's your right. I didn't care for it at all, save for a few ideas here
and there, until I saw some of the later episodes. They had their fill of
inanity, but buried within were redeeming qualities enough to keep me
watching the show even if I cannot help but continue to take issue with
neo-Linna, whose head needs to be firmly embedded in sheetrock.
>hey suck and i've havent even seen them. just imagine what i'd say if
>i saw them. but episodes 1-3 were enough. life is short, why waste
>any time on 2040?
Don't watch it. No one will force you to. Most people won't even *ask* you
to.
Sarah
chris crocker
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote:
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:24:46 GMT "Sarah Davis"
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
> EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message
> <9IlA4.54676$Mg.7...@c01read03-admin.service.talkway.com>...
> >Fight scenes look much
> >> better in the TV series than they do in the OVA series, IMHO. The
> movements
> >> are faster and more fluid.
> >
> >ha..ha...ha. ova has some of the most remarkable actions scene ever--in
> >the context of entire cinema history--and sarah says she likes the
> >videogame candywrapping style of the tv series. ha..ha..ha.
>
> Oh, I never said the OVA had *bad* fight scenes, but I enjoy the fast, fluid
> motion in the TV series. In some scenes it's overdone to the point that I
> couldn't believe the action I was watching, but at other times watching the
> characters in action is quite impressive.
tv series sucks in every way. the action scenes are retarded and based
on video games. it's gimpy and without form or structure, just a lot
of zip zap and noise.
>
> >you need to study cinema a little more closely.
>
> I'm not as cinematically-challenged as you seem to think. I know good
> animation when I see it, and BGC2040's animation during action scenes is
> good.
no it aint. i saw episodes 1-3 and they sucked big time. saturday
morning cartoons have better action scenes.
If you were to place aside your bias for half a second (which,
> obviously, you cannot) you might be able to appreciate them. Disliking the
> series is one thing, but disliking every damn aspect of the series just
> because the title itself bugs you is petty.
>what bias? i like to enjoy what i'm watching so as not to feel i'm
wasting precious time. but 2040 is a big waste for everyone. people
credited as its creators ought to be blindfolded and shot. me biased?
ha!
--
Gaza, I usually don't post much on this ng preferring to lurk occasionally and only post something when there's a topic I'm specifically interested in or when something really grabs my attention, like *YOU* of all people claiming to be unbiased!!!
That's a really good one! That's like Dolly Parton claiming she's only an A-cup! Sarah's dead on the money, you're biased big time, in fact, you might be the *most* biased person I've ever seen. Sarah's also right about how you rant and preach and bash everything about BG2040. Sure, it's not the original, yes it does have it's flaws, but so did the original. In general I think the new series is ok although I admit that right now I still like the old BGC better, but I'm not going to form a finished opinion on it until I've seen more of 2040. If I judged the old BGC series by the first three episodes as you judge 2040 by it's first three tapes, I'd say the original BGC was a decent series, but that's it. Episode 3 was where the story really began to kick into high gear, with Moonlight Rambler and Red Eyes being the best tapes in the series. I don't know how you think you can call down the entire 2040 series having only seen the first three tapes, but then that's just another example of how biased you are...
Chris
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
> only post something when there's a topic I'm specifically interested in or when
> something really grabs my attention, like *YOU* of all people claiming to be
> unbiased!!!
i am UNBIASED!!! no one wanted bubblegum crisis continue more than i
did. i used to religiously check the aic news updates. and what do
they give us? some gimpy glue-n-crayon shit called 2040 which debases
everything that was cool about the original. i'm pissed by 2040 and
its fans; now, how is that a bias? you are confusing bias with
judgment. i arrived at my views without bias. now that my views are
set(and correct), i need to remind everyone how bad 2040 is.
> That's a really good one! That's like Dolly Parton claiming she's only an A-cup!
you sexist pig!! i don't talk about women that way! that's vulgur and
disrespectful. leave miss watermelon tits country bimbo gal out of
this.
> Sarah's dead on the money, you're biased big time, in fact, you might be the
> *most* biased person I've ever seen.
wrong! sarah is the biased one. she always badmouthed priss. she even
had a link on her website which sent you to some girl who had an hate
priss page. and you telling me that sarah has the right to judge a
fair-mined person such as i?
> Sarah's also right about how you rant and
> preach and bash everything about BG2040. Sure, it's not the original, yes it does
> have it's flaws, but so did the original.
yeah, the original had flaws. but 2040 is a flaw in itself. you know,
like the original was a fine soup with a fly in it whereas 2040 is
simply a bowl of flies.
In general I think the new series is ok
> although I admit that right now I still like the old BGC better, but I'm not going
> to form a finished opinion on it until I've seen more of 2040.
you need to see an eye doctor. or worse, a shrink.
If I judged the
> old BGC series by the first three episodes as you judge 2040 by it's first three
> tapes, I'd say the original BGC was a decent series, but that's it.
had crisis been only parts 1-3, it'd still be one of the greatest anime
ever though perhaps not one of the great artworks of the last century
which it is. 2040's 1-3 episodes are the worst in anime ever. i'll
take a minute of speed racer and atom the half naked mickeymouseboy to
all of 2040.
Episode 3 was
> where the story really began to kick into high gear, with Moonlight Rambler and
> Red Eyes being the best tapes in the series. I don't know how you think you can
> call down the entire 2040 series having only seen the first three tapes, but then
> that's just another example of how biased you are...
> Chris
>
like i said, the first 3 episodes of the original promised great
things. but the first 3 of 2040 promises nothing but torture. and why
should i torture myself?
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
> >accomplished since someone in the ng told us how hard it was to create
> >that effect. but beside the difficulty of the animation process, it
> >was simply linna doing a back flip. big deal! had it been
> >live-action, who have have raised an eyebrow?
>
> movements of Linna. Linna is known among anime fans in general, and not just
> BGC fans, for being an athletic person. That scene illustrated, quite
> literally, just how athletic Linna is. THAT is what it accomplished.
yeah, it was technically accomplished as a piece of animation. but it
was nothing earthshaking. like a more expensive film has better
production values--explosions, sound of gunfire, etc.--but not
necessarily the better overall concept.
john woo's hong kong gangster flicks--as cheesy as they are--are
preferable to his megabuck hollywood productions though the better have
better looking effects.
>
> >and crisis did NOT over-use effects ad nauseum. i'd say crisis utilized
> >effects economically for maximum effect...or r&b. like the WHO!!
>
> BGC *did* overuse ideas, effects, concepts, and more. It even went so far as
> to give Anri a death scene so hideously like Sylvie's that it was impossible
> for me to feel bad for the little idiot.
i thought we were discussing action here and not drama. yes, anri's
death in priss's arms was similar to sylvie's death but i think it's
crucial. for with sylvie priss blamed herself. but with anri's death,
priss's weakness evaporates and strength returns to her. the two
deaths are similar but produce opposite effects and the irony of it is
neat.
. life is short, why waste
> >any time on 2040?
>
> Don't watch it. No one will force you to. Most people won't even *ask* you
> to.
>
how little you know!! adv is lobbying congress to pass legislation
that would require all americans to watch 2040 or be shipped off to
concentration camps. i mean in this day and age we have this shit
going on.
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message
>chris crocker wrote in message <38D3472B...@mb.sympatico.ca>...
>> Sarah's dead on the money, you're biased big time, in fact, you might be
the
>> *most* biased person I've ever seen.
>
Did I? I remember defending her from attacks several times. But since you
have the most selective memory of anyone I know, I guess anything not
directly supporting your argument is moot.
>she even
>had a link on her website which sent you to some girl who had an hate
>priss page. and you telling me that sarah has the right to judge a
>fair-mined person such as i?
The link on my page was nothing more than that: A link. I have another
website devoted to two of my favorite characters from another anime series,
and on that website I have links to pages that deem one or the other stupid,
boring, annoying, evil, and so on. It's called representing all sides of the
argument, Gaza. It's a way to *not* be biased.
Sarah
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>In the
>> worlds of direction and storyboarding, the animators seem to have missed
a
>> few lessons.
>
>dab of mustard on an hotdog. rather, crisis integrated slo-motion as
>one of irreducible elements in the overall visual texture. slo-motion
>in crisis wasn't merely slo-motion; rather it was part and parcel of
>the atmosphere and tension of the bubblegum universe. like shadows
>aren't merely an effect in film noir but an integral part of the genre.
> who would complain that blade runner's set designs lean too much
>toward darkness and gloom?
That's completely different. Atmosphere and use of slow-motion are not
related. One is setting, the other is execution.
Let me break this down for you since you seem to be missing my base
argument: I don't like slow motion. ANY slow motion. I've seen too much of
it. BGC did its damnedest to test my threshold during episode six when time
and time again everything seemed to be slowed down or stopped. It wasn't
like entering a new dimension and being thrown for a loop. It was annoying.
I've snipped your Peckinpah argument because it has absolutely nothing to do
with this discussion. Find your examples in BGC or don't use them at all.
>and on a larger scale, bubblegum crisis is about TIME. time as
>something easily manipulated as busy people trying to stay alive have
>easily forgotten the past. in the sense that time lurches forward with
>the fast advancement of technology. time as the thing man has
>forgotten and as the thing whose pace is now beyond human power. so
>when largo moves as though as he has all the time in the world, we
>notice in every bit of his gestures that he isn't merely trying to have
>the world. he's trying to own time. now, how could largo's grandiose
>gestures and philosophy be expressed properly without slo-mo and the
>related still-photography?
This is philosophical bullshit and you know it. I could argue that any time
two characters run to each other, screaming one another's name, it is a
beautiful depiction of two people for whom time seems to drag as they are
separated. True though that may be, it's not exactly innovative when George
and Martha have run to each other thousands of times in thousands of forms
in thousands of movies/books/series. It's not an argument: It's an attempt
to justify something that isn't worth justifying by stretching yourself and
trying to cover all angles. People can make anything seem like an
intellectual achievement using arguments like yours. Fact is, Sturgeon was
right: Most of the world is built on a foundation of soft, sludgy crap that
has a tendency to slide out from beneath us and slip us up. The little
things count in bad ways as often as good ways. One of those bad "little
things" from the OVA series was slow motion.
Sarah
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
> >chris crocker wrote in message <38D3472B...@mb.sympatico.ca>...
> the
> >> *most* biased person I've ever seen.
> >
>
> Did I? I remember defending her from attacks several times. But since you
> have the most selective memory of anyone I know, I guess anything not
> directly supporting your argument is moot.
>
> >she even
> >had a link on her website which sent you to some girl who had an hate
> >priss page. and you telling me that sarah has the right to judge a
> >fair-mined person such as i?
>
> The link on my page was nothing more than that: A link. I have another
> website devoted to two of my favorite characters from another anime series,
> and on that website I have links to pages that deem one or the other stupid,
> boring, annoying, evil, and so on. It's called representing all sides of the
> argument, Gaza. It's a way to *not* be biased.
>
> Sarah
>
>
i'm not saying you're a special biased case. all people are biased
except me.
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
> EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
> >On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:02:31 GMT "Sarah Davis"
> ><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
> >In the
> >> worlds of direction and storyboarding, the animators seem to have missed
> a
> >> few lessons.
> >
> >hardly. slo-motion wasn't merely a visual condiment in crisis.. like a
> >dab of mustard on an hotdog. rather, crisis integrated slo-motion as
> >one of irreducible elements in the overall visual texture. slo-motion
> >in crisis wasn't merely slo-motion; rather it was part and parcel of
> >the atmosphere and tension of the bubblegum universe. like shadows
> >aren't merely an effect in film noir but an integral part of the genre.
> > who would complain that blade runner's set designs lean too much
> >toward darkness and gloom?
>
>
> That's completely different. Atmosphere and use of slow-motion are not
> related. One is setting, the other is execution.
even atmosphere has to be executed through staging and cinematography.
atmosphere isn't something you pull out of the thin air. all matter of
technical preparations go into creating mood. take photography. the
fact any photograph creates a certain mood has everything to do with
what the photographer intended and executed. his very choice of the
image, his manipulation of light, framing, etc. went into creating that
effect.
to be sure, slo-mo if used more sparingly in certain key scenes but for
the duration of its use and even for the scene with which it is used,
it contributes a great deal to the whole feeling of the scene and
story. there are many movies where slo-motion was used only once but in
a manner so significant that it remains the most memorable scene in the
whole movie and therefore affects how we react to the movie as a whole.
to use an extreme example, maybe you've seen koyannisqatsi, a powerful
visionary experience, and baraka, directed by the filmmaker of
koyannisqatsi which have long stretches of slo-motion. believe me when
i say slo-mo contributes to mood is no more or less executed than
lighting, framing, editing, art design, etc.
>
> Let me break this down for you since you seem to be missing my base
> argument: I don't like slow motion. ANY slow motion. I've seen too much of
> it.
you have to stop watching too much fluff. we are all inundated with
crap like the stuff on mtv. mtv and such use the tools of cinema for
superficial effect and for the narcissitic glorifying of megastar
celebabies.
i remember fellini was likewise pissed when italian tv appropriated the
imagery from his rich cinematic work to sell soap and pasta; he even
made a film decrying this practice in 'ginger and fred'. what had once
been personal, meaningful, and artistic soon became familiar part of
the kitschy culturescape.
if you eat too much candy, you'll never appreciate the great taste of
homebaked apple pie.
> BGC did its damnedest to test my threshold during episode six when time
> and time again everything seemed to be slowed down or stopped. It wasn't
> like entering a new dimension and being thrown for a loop. It was annoying.
you have to learn to feel, to breathe. there are two ways to respond
to art. one way is to have the art operate according to your wishes and
familiar rhythm, to your expectations. the other is to let yourself go
and submit to the rhythm and flow of the art itself. this is why
today's kids are such intolerant philistines. raised up on rock and
rap and tv and car chases and sesame street, they have no patience for
things unfamiliar or 'slow'.
in my movie-viewing experience, no film has ever tested nor changed
what i expect from cinema than 'andrei rublev'. the first time, i was
bored out of my skull but the images stayed with me, as they were so
stunning and mysterious. in my subsequent viewings, i didn't ask the
film to play to my expectations of cinematic pacing and structure but
attuned myself to the contemplative trance-like quality of the movie.
and at this point, it wouldn't be too far amiss to say it is THE movie
of the last century. imagine that, a film about a medieval russian
painter takes the trophy in an artform that is so closely tied to the
progress of the 20th century.
also, the reason i loved dazed and confused so much was that its world
of teenagers felt complete unto itself. most movies about
highschoolers have preconceived notions of what they are like, what
they think, and how we are supposed to react to each characther and
situation. but dazed and confused skips along to the rhythm of its
characters; we feel as though every makeup and piece of clothing were
chosen by the individuals themselves instead of by the costume
department. you gotta let yourself go!
>
> I've snipped your Peckinpah argument because it has absolutely nothing to do
> with this discussion. Find your examples in BGC or don't use them at all.
peckinpah was the pioneer of the slo-motion in action scenes. no
discussion of action scenes--esp ones involving slo-mo--can be
discussed independently of peckinpah's groundshaking achievement. i've
seen the wild bunch no less than 40 times and it has never failed to
amaze me. no peckinpah, no john woo, no bubblegum crisis style. then
there are leone and the samura pics.
strangely, bubblegum crisis's action scenes owe much less to the sci-fi
tradition than to peckinpah and leone's westerns and the great samurai
films of the 60s.
in fact, very few sci-fi films have great action scenes. when i saw
the restored star wars, i couldn't believe how sloppy and uninspired
most of it was. phantom menace has a rivetting fight scene with the
jedis and watermelonhead but i think it owes a great deal to hongkong
and japanese filmmaking.
>
> >and on a larger scale, bubblegum crisis is about TIME. time as
> >something easily manipulated as busy people trying to stay alive have
> >easily forgotten the past. in the sense that time lurches forward with
> >the fast advancement of technology. time as the thing man has
> >forgotten and as the thing whose pace is now beyond human power. so
> >when largo moves as though as he has all the time in the world, we
> >notice in every bit of his gestures that he isn't merely trying to have
> >the world. he's trying to own time. now, how could largo's grandiose
> >gestures and philosophy be expressed properly without slo-mo and the
> >related still-photography?
>
> This is philosophical bullshit and you know it. I could argue that any time
> two characters run to each other, screaming one another's name, it is a
> beautiful depiction of two people for whom time seems to drag as they are
> separated.
philosophy and bullshit are not necessarily distinct from one another.
one of my favorite quotes: george will on jean-paul sartre: to
paraphrase...'sartre concluded that life is absurd and therefore
philosophy should be too'.
True though that may be, it's not exactly innovative when George
> and Martha have run to each other thousands of times in thousands of forms
> in thousands of movies/books/series.
ah, two people running into one another! how often do we see it today?
now, it's two people bickering and shitting all over one another. i do
say george and martha running into one another is beautiful,
philosophically, emotionally, or otherwise. but i don't believe i've
seen such since... i can't remember. hmm, i think wayne's world kinda
made fun of that age old convention. what is the world coming to?
It's not an argument: It's an attempt
> to justify something that isn't worth justifying by stretching yourself and
> trying to cover all angles.
actually i mean exactly what i say. be glad i didn't go into the
religious ramifications of slo-mo. god created the world in fast
motion and ever since he's slowed everything down to understand and
correct bugs in the system. but mankind has sped things up and god is
very angry. look at crisis. the genom people want think nothing of
yesterday and think only of TOMORROW and TOMORROW AND TOMORROW. the
great thing about sylia is though her mind works as fast as electrons
zipping around the nucleas, her deeper rhythm is one with cosmic
harmony itself. she is fast and she is slow.
People can make anything seem like an
> intellectual achievement using arguments like yours.
not intellectual. just factual.
> Fact is, Sturgeon was
> right: Most of the world is built on a foundation of soft, sludgy crap that
> has a tendency to slide out from beneath us and slip us up. The little
> things count in bad ways as often as good ways. One of those bad "little
> things" from the OVA series was slow motion.
>
you wanna trust a fish that swims around in soft sludgy crappy waters
and from which the only little things that count are its eggs? yuck!
would you rather feast on gaza's cajun style fried catfish or munch on
funnytasting caviar?
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
>On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:07:54 GMT "Sarah Davis"
><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
>> That's completely different. Atmosphere and use of slow-motion are not
>> related. One is setting, the other is execution.
>
>even atmosphere has to be executed through staging and cinematography.
>atmosphere isn't something you pull out of the thin air. all matter of
>technical preparations go into creating mood. take photography. the
>fact any photograph creates a certain mood has everything to do with
>what the photographer intended and executed. his very choice of the
>image, his manipulation of light, framing, etc. went into creating that
>effect.
BGC isn't a photograph, though. We're talking about a 1980s anime series.
All forms of art have fundamental similarities, but they are not necessarily
related. Taking a still photograph of, say, a cat sleeping on a pillow is in
some ways like videotaping that same cat on the pillow, but when taking the
cat one must also take into consideration motion, which is where, IMHO, BGC
made a faux pas or two.
>believe me when
>i say slo-mo contributes to mood is no more or less executed than
>lighting, framing, editing, art design, etc.
I'm not saying slow motion is pure, unforgivable evil. I'm saying that when
used improperly, it's *dumb*. I've watched many a series that stumbles along
for scene after scene, then uses slow motion to heighten suspense. It seldom
works. Motion in film is a remarkable thing -- if it weren't, this
discussion wouldn't be taking place. But what you found to be profound and
beautiful, I found to be clunky and bothersome. There's such a thing as
overkill.
>> Let me break this down for you since you seem to be missing my base
>> argument: I don't like slow motion. ANY slow motion. I've seen too much
of
>> it.
>
>you have to stop watching too much fluff. we are all inundated with
>crap like the stuff on mtv. mtv and such use the tools of cinema for
>superficial effect and for the narcissitic glorifying of megastar
>celebabies.
I don't watch MTV often enough to know if they implement slow motion often
these days. I watch plenty of fluff, but most of it is animated in Japan.
And a *lot* of that fluff uses slow motion. Most anime uses slow motion/stop
action in place of more creative means of indicating to the audience that
something powerful and important is taking place. The only convention in
action scenes that I hate more these days is the triple-take.
>> BGC did its damnedest to test my threshold during episode six when time
>> and time again everything seemed to be slowed down or stopped. It wasn't
>> like entering a new dimension and being thrown for a loop. It was
annoying.
>
>you have to learn to feel, to breathe. there are two ways to respond
>to art. one way is to have the art operate according to your wishes and
>familiar rhythm, to your expectations. the other is to let yourself go
>and submit to the rhythm and flow of the art itself. this is why
>today's kids are such intolerant philistines. raised up on rock and
>rap and tv and car chases and sesame street, they have no patience for
>things unfamiliar or 'slow'.
I feel and breathe plenty. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to write
sprawling, jaw-dropping missives on my thoughts about a single scene that
lasted all of two minutes out of a sixty-one episode series. (And believe me
when I say I've done precisely this.) Aversion to slow motion is about about
living life in the fast line and being incapable of appreciating the pacing
of a certain scene. Over time I've seen so much slow motion and so little of
it has been effective. It's a cliche. Oh, looky, a dramatic scene is
occuring. And just to make sure the audience *knows* it's dramatic, let's
slow it down drastically so that we can make sure every little detail that
could have been presented in more a thoughtful style is right there in plain
view.
> True though that may be, it's not exactly innovative when George
>> and Martha have run to each other thousands of times in thousands of
forms
>> in thousands of movies/books/series.
>
>ah, two people running into one another! how often do we see it today?
But how often did we see it, say, forty years ago? Thirty years ago? Often
enough that Bugs Bunny nailed it repeatedly. Bugs knows his movies. Always
trust him to point out the folly of film.
>now, it's two people bickering and shitting all over one another. i do
>say george and martha running into one another is beautiful,
>philosophically, emotionally, or otherwise. but i don't believe i've
>seen such since... i can't remember. hmm, i think wayne's world kinda
>made fun of that age old convention. what is the world coming to?
Cynicism.
>>People can make anything seem like an
>> intellectual achievement using arguments like yours.
>
>not intellectual. just factual.
Not at all. Let's say a seven-year-old paints a picture of his grandmother
in the same abstract style that most children use for paintings. It's a lack
of skill. They're still developing; figuring things out for themselves. But
his parents could spend hours upon hours picking out details that, to them,
are stunning and earth-shattering. His choice of colors, his spacing of
lines, the shape of Grandma's eyeglasses... If you ask most people, it's a
typical picture by a typical child. If you ask his parents, the meaning of
life is right there in that simple watercolor painting. A fan is like a
parent: Willing to overthink just to prove something's "worth."
>> Fact is, Sturgeon was
>> right: Most of the world is built on a foundation of soft, sludgy crap
that
>> has a tendency to slide out from beneath us and slip us up. The little
>> things count in bad ways as often as good ways. One of those bad "little
>> things" from the OVA series was slow motion.
>>
>
>you wanna trust a fish that swims around in soft sludgy crappy waters
>and from which the only little things that count are its eggs? yuck!
*shudder* A pun...
*ahem* You, of all people, are saying Sturgeon was wrong? Dare you argue
that less than 90% of everything is crap?
>would you rather feast on gaza's cajun style fried catfish or munch on
>funnytasting caviar?
Neither. I don't care for seafood.
Sarah
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
> All forms of art have fundamental similarities, but they are not necessarily
> related. Taking a still photograph of, say, a cat sleeping on a pillow is in
> some ways like videotaping that same cat on the pillow, but when taking the
> cat one must also take into consideration motion, which is where, IMHO, BGC
> made a faux pas or two.
whether it's still photography or film, it's all execution. you have
to plan it, stage it or frame it, and then shoot or film it.
>
> >believe me when
> >i say slo-mo contributes to mood is no more or less executed than
> >lighting, framing, editing, art design, etc.
>
> I'm not saying slow motion is pure, unforgivable evil. I'm saying that when
> used improperly, it's *dumb*. I've watched many a series that stumbles along
> for scene after scene, then uses slow motion to heighten suspense. It seldom
> works. Motion in film is a remarkable thing -- if it weren't, this
> discussion wouldn't be taking place. But what you found to be profound and
> beautiful, I found to be clunky and bothersome. There's such a thing as
> overkill.
makioka sisters has only one slo-motion sequence, the very ending. and
these last several seconds are unforgettable.
or take excalibur. the sword rising out of the water. Wow.
'running out of time' by johnny to, masterful and bubblegummish use of
slo-mo. mind-bending stuff.
dream sequences in 'the sacrifice'.
slo-mo is neither intrinsically good nor bad. but i think you've seen
too much anime which i agree recycle stylistic cliches endlessly, one
of the reason you may have been blind to crisis's brilliant use of the
effect.
but if you've also seen the movies i've listed above, then you must
realize slo-mo in the hands of a master is an indispensable cinematic
tool.
>
> >> Let me break this down for you since you seem to be missing my base
> >> argument: I don't like slow motion. ANY slow motion. I've seen too much
> of
> >> it.
> >
> >you have to stop watching too much fluff. we are all inundated with
> >crap like the stuff on mtv. mtv and such use the tools of cinema for
> >superficial effect and for the narcissitic glorifying of megastar
> >celebabies.
>
> I don't watch MTV often enough to know if they implement slow motion often
> these days. I watch plenty of fluff, but most of it is animated in Japan.
you have to stop watching 2040 and that kind of junk. they destroy
brain cells.
> And a *lot* of that fluff uses slow motion. Most anime uses slow motion/stop
> action in place of more creative means of indicating to the audience that
> something powerful and important is taking place.
yes. first a man of originality comes up with an idea. then the
imitators copy it to death. but never mind the imitators. after
leone's spaghetti westerns introduced cool electric music, blaring
trumpets, and amoral chic to what had been a good vs. bad genre, 1000s
of imitators followed suit. but, surely any honest viewer can tell
good bad ugly from its imitators.
and so i say why confuse bubblegum crisis and its brilliant use of
style with the endless sewage of imitation anime hackwork?
> The only convention in
> action scenes that I hate more these days is the triple-take.
what's that?
>
> >> BGC did its damnedest to test my threshold during episode six when time
> >> and time again everything seemed to be slowed down or stopped. It wasn't
> >> like entering a new dimension and being thrown for a loop. It was
> annoying.
> >
> >you have to learn to feel, to breathe. there are two ways to respond
> >to art. one way is to have the art operate according to your wishes and
> >familiar rhythm, to your expectations. the other is to let yourself go
> >and submit to the rhythm and flow of the art itself. this is why
> >today's kids are such intolerant philistines. raised up on rock and
> >rap and tv and car chases and sesame street, they have no patience for
> >things unfamiliar or 'slow'.
>
> I feel and breathe plenty. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to write
> sprawling, jaw-dropping missives on my thoughts about a single scene that
> lasted all of two minutes out of a sixty-one episode series.
yes, true. but i still you're locked within a mindset that has already
been established as 'sarah's big likes'. you can go endlessly about
what already fascinates you but can you appreciate something that may
be entirely unfamiliar to your preconceived notions of what is good
anime or art?
i'm just saying you haven't really seen crisis until you've let
yourself go and soaked it up on its own terms.
>Over time I've seen so much slow motion and so little of
> it has been effective. It's a cliche.
okay, a few more examples to convince you otherwise.
the ape tossing the bone in the air in 2001.
key scenes in casino and kundun!!
final gun battle in the long riders.
assassin in full metal jacket picking off soldiers
yes madame(michelle yeoh and cythia rothrock)
> >>People can make anything seem like an
> >> intellectual achievement using arguments like yours.
> >
> >not intellectual. just factual.
>
> Not at all. Let's say a seven-year-old paints a picture of his grandmother
> in the same abstract style that most children use for paintings. It's a lack
> of skill. They're still developing; figuring things out for themselves. But
> his parents could spend hours upon hours picking out details that, to them,
> are stunning and earth-shattering. His choice of colors, his spacing of
> lines, the shape of Grandma's eyeglasses... If you ask most people, it's a
> typical picture by a typical child. If you ask his parents, the meaning of
> life is right there in that simple watercolor painting. A fan is like a
> parent: Willing to overthink just to prove something's "worth."
this would be the case with 2040 which is worse than had kids been
given crayons and glue to retell the crisis story.
but crisis is not a mistake but a miracle. we're not swooning over
some crappy series of mistakes and ineptitude but amazed by the
brilliance and ingenuity of the people who were involved.
though your kid analogy is out of place in our discussion of crisis
ovas, i think we can bring up the phenomena of the idiot savant. it's
possible that the makers of crisis didn't exactly know what they were
doing but there was a subconsious or group force that somehow came
together miraculously to produce a masterwork.
i think it happened with it's a wonderful life. so why not with
crisis.
and speaking of abstract art...what makes you think that a great many
of those artists really knew what they were doing either.
>
> Neither. I don't care for seafood.
>
> Sarah
how can you be a japanophile and not like seafood. go eat some octopus
and get real with this japan things. and don't the wasabi.
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
>> The only convention in
>> action scenes that I hate more these days is the triple-take.
>
>what's that?
Surely you are familiar with the triple-take..? Same action is shown taking
place three different times, often from three different angles. Ex: BGCrash!
episode three, when one of Largo's Boomers cracks Priss in the head. She's
shown looking at it three times, then the motion of the Boomer is shown
being executed three times, even though each action only took place once.
>> I feel and breathe plenty. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to write
>> sprawling, jaw-dropping missives on my thoughts about a single scene that
>> lasted all of two minutes out of a sixty-one episode series.
>
>yes, true. but i still you're locked within a mindset that has already
>been established as 'sarah's big likes'. you can go endlessly about
>what already fascinates you but can you appreciate something that may
>be entirely unfamiliar to your preconceived notions of what is good
>anime or art?
Yes. I'm quite familiar with slow motion. That's my gripe. It's old, it's
stinky, it's overdone. You also assume you know my preferences when you are
far from knowing what they are. You stated above that I like that with which
I am familiar and comfortable. Nothing could be further from the truth. It
isn't closemindedness that causes me to dislike slow motion. It's that
unfortunate feeling of knowing all too well the convention that is being
used. It's like that neighbor that hangs around and tries to talk to you
about the same road trip every time you see him. It was nice the first time,
but after awhile you can recite it for him. Everything wears thin.
>i'm just saying you haven't really seen crisis until you've let
>yourself go and soaked it up on its own terms.
And I say you're giving a few uses of slow motion far too much credit.
>>Over time I've seen so much slow motion and so little of
>> it has been effective. It's a cliche.
>
>okay, a few more examples to convince you otherwise.
>
>the ape tossing the bone in the air in 2001.
>key scenes in casino and kundun!!
>final gun battle in the long riders.
>assassin in full metal jacket picking off soldiers
>yes madame(michelle yeoh and cythia rothrock)
I said "so little of it has been effective." I didn't say "none of it has
been effective." And it *is* a cliche. I'll readily agree with you that
those instances listed above were rare cases of slow motion being used the
right way. But how often *is* it done the right way? IMHO BGC slowed down
motion a few too many times. Anything used that often dwindles in the eye of
the beholder sooner or later. If it had been used in, say, one scene of
episode six, it would have been powerful. It was used no fewer than three
times -- probably more like four or five -- and that was not a good thing.
>though your kid analogy is out of place in our discussion of crisis
>ovas,
I don't think it is. I've found that no people are less likely to recognize
the failings in something than the people who love it most. That's stating
the obvious, of course, but it's so painfully true.
>and speaking of abstract art...what makes you think that a great many
>of those artists really knew what they were doing either.
I never said they did. That's the beauty of fine art: It is so often
accidental, something born from the subconscious.
Sarah
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
> EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
> >> action scenes that I hate more these days is the triple-take.
> >
> >what's that?
>
> place three different times, often from three different angles. Ex: BGCrash!
> episode three, when one of Largo's Boomers cracks Priss in the head. She's
> shown looking at it three times, then the motion of the Boomer is shown
> being executed three times, even though each action only took place once.
i like the triple take. certain things happen so fast that tools such
as the triple take, in adding a few more angles, allow for a richer
viewing experience.. though overused it can be annoying.
there's a terrific triple-take in the graduate when benjamin turns his
head to face a half-naked mrs robinson. and in that example, the
device served to accentuate the psychological tension of the moment.
used effectively, all techniques are good.
> >>Over time I've seen so much slow motion and so little of
> >> it has been effective. It's a cliche.
> >
> >okay, a few more examples to convince you otherwise.
> >
> >the ape tossing the bone in the air in 2001.
> >key scenes in casino and kundun!!
> >final gun battle in the long riders.
> >assassin in full metal jacket picking off soldiers
> >yes madame(michelle yeoh and cythia rothrock)
>
> I said "so little of it has been effective." I didn't say "none of it has
> been effective." And it *is* a cliche. I'll readily agree with you that
> those instances listed above were rare cases of slow motion being used the
> right way. But how often *is* it done the right way?
but then how often is anything done well in cinema or anime? rain is
used almost always to convey sadness or depression. have you seen
kevin costner's wyatt earp? movie's not bad the the musical score!!
ugh!! so obvious and bombastic, like PUTTING EVERY WORD IN BOLD
LETTERS!
the reason i can't stand tv shows is because everyone speaks his lines
in the same established and 'correct' fashion. but should we knock
screenwriting as a whole? we never deal with characters but simply
with types.
> I don't think it is. I've found that no people are less likely to recognize
> the failings in something than the people who love it most. That's stating
> the obvious, of course, but it's so painfully true.
this certainly doesn't apply to me for i can find a countless mistakes
in the original crisis. but use of slo-mo isn't one of them. more
bothersome were the evil laughter. largo had a good one but his
hyperboomers and miriam the goofus... the laughter was so obviously
wicked.
Sarah Davis
EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
>i like the triple take. certain things happen so fast that tools such
>as the triple take, in adding a few more angles, allow for a richer
>viewing experience.. though overused it can be annoying.
It often happens twice in a row, such as in the BGCrash! example. This is
another case of a device that was ete-catching and thoughtful when first
introduced, but once taken in the wrong direction became another common
cliche that serves to irk people who like originality.
>used effectively, all techniques are good.
Used effectively, *anything* is good, film techniques or otherwise. It's
just that most aren't used effectively, and so some of us find our levels of
tolerance reaching the limit.
>> I said "so little of it has been effective." I didn't say "none of it has
>> been effective." And it *is* a cliche. I'll readily agree with you that
>> those instances listed above were rare cases of slow motion being used
the
>> right way. But how often *is* it done the right way?
>
>but then how often is anything done well in cinema or anime? rain is
>used almost always to convey sadness or depression. have you seen
>kevin costner's wyatt earp? movie's not bad the the musical score!!
>ugh!! so obvious and bombastic, like PUTTING EVERY WORD IN BOLD
>LETTERS!
Most soundtracks do that, whether they are vocal or instrumental. Watch a
horror movie or two. Ever notice how the violins always screech at the same
time, no matter who wrote the score or directed the film? I've learned to
block out BGM most of the time.
>the reason i can't stand tv shows is because everyone speaks his lines
>in the same established and 'correct' fashion. but should we knock
>screenwriting as a whole? we never deal with characters but simply
>with types.
That's because they're catering to an audience who spends so much time in
front of the television that they no longer can distinguish between what is
crap and what is not. I once pointed out to a fan of a popular shoujo series
that all the characters stood for ideals and had no individual personality;
that they were vessels for communicating an idea but without human substance
to back it up. She doesn't speak to me anymore...
>> I don't think it is. I've found that no people are less likely to
recognize
>> the failings in something than the people who love it most. That's
stating
>> the obvious, of course, but it's so painfully true.
>
>this certainly doesn't apply to me for i can find a countless mistakes
>in the original crisis. but use of slo-mo isn't one of them. more
>bothersome were the evil laughter. largo had a good one but his
>hyperboomers and miriam the goofus... the laughter was so obviously
>wicked.
I much preferred Mason to Largo in certain ways, one of those ways being
that he was SO low-key that he didn't need to cackle his way to villainy. I
also found the HyperBoomer's voice, and not just his laugh, to be
embarrassing. Couldn't they have given something in a feminine suit or armor
a woman's voice..? Ugh.
Sarah
EagleBear of Sioux Nation
<sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
>
> EagleBear of Sioux Nation wrote in message ...
> ><sdavis...@penpen.com> wrote:
> >
> >i like the triple take. certain things happen so fast that tools such
> >as the triple take, in adding a few more angles, allow for a richer
> >viewing experience.. though overused it can be annoying.
>
> It often happens twice in a row, such as in the BGCrash! example. This is
> another case of a device that was ete-catching and thoughtful when first
> introduced, but once taken in the wrong direction became another common
> cliche that serves to irk people who like originality.
yes, if you want to bash crash for its lousy use of filmic techniques,
i'm entirely on your side. crash takes every technique and method used
in crisis and applies them in such a plodding and obvious manner...
kinda like a man trying to dance with his head buried in a
learn-to-dance book. crisis had that sense of creative spontaneity
which the cumbersome crash utterly lacked(with the exception of priss's
big battle in #2).
in any case, let's say crisis used the devices in the best way and
crash and 2040(ugh) didn't.