Hardsuits' original purpose
Alemann
with his inventions. Going by this characterization, the hardsuits are
an anomaly; their primary function is an offensive one, achieving
damage and not prosperity.
How should we reconcile this? Here's my take: hardsuits were
originally prototype space suits. Look Sylia's suit, for example.
Those cylindered shapes on her helmet's back. They protrude without
any, at least ostensible, function. If we imagine an oxygen source,
they make perfect sense as valves/tubes connecting the oxygen source
with the user. The jetpack is for navigation in space; for instance,
around a station like Genaros. That's why Sylia's hardsuit also has
two pseudo claw fists - for lifting heavy space cargo.
How did weapons get on those space suits? Easy. The Data Unit sender
modified the original hardsuit's blueprints before sending them to
Sylia. Who ever he is.
Alemann
Dartz
Boomers were also originally designed for space use, according to
background materials.
Although, for irony reasons, I suggested that the hardsuits original
design purpose was search and rescue after a hypothetical future mega-
earthquake in Tokyo. But isn't that always the way with technology.
Somebody has an idea for the good of mankind, somebody figures out how
to use it to kill someone else.
Alemann
> Boomers were also originally designed for space use, according to
> background materials.
If the BGC RPG manual is your source, you should be coy about using
it; the B-Club BGC special is only official (untranslated) source that
has any weight.
> Somebody has an idea for the good of mankind, somebody figures out how
> to use it to kill someone else.
Inevitable. Although in Katsuhito's case, it's more in the gray area.
Alemann
Amanda Stair
anything that wasn't brought up in the B-Clubs. What's the point of
speculating, then? It's like you offering to pay me to translate the
B-Club Special earlier, only to say you don't have any money in the
first place.
Amanda
Dartz
You're speculating aswell man. What makes my speculations any less
valid than yours? There's nothing in bclub that calls hardsuits
'spacesuits'. No source at all calls hardsuits spacesuits. At the same
time, the RPG manual does suggest boomers were developed for space,
and official drawings included in the manuals do also corroberate
this.
But I'm too damn lazy to argue this with you because you never listen
anyway.
-Dartz
Alemann
> All of the speculation you're wanting to do, and yet you attack
> anything that wasn't brought up in the B-Clubs.
Dartz didn't claim it's speculation from his side. He said it's
officially confirmed that Katsuhito developed boomers exclusively for
space labor, and mistakenly used an unofficial source as confirmation.
It's the source I attack, not the claimant.
> What's the point of
> speculating, then?
Speculation is healthy. It's what keeps the interest going, and it
demonstrates the writers made an interesting storyline if fans are
willing to add something of their own. If you speculate, announce it
so, and use only official sources as basis.
> It's like you offering to pay me to translate the
> B-Club Special earlier, only to say you don't have any money in the
> first place.
You're the one who said you don't work pro bono, and I'm baffled why.
With all those fansub groups, you sound like a greedy capitalist.
Nobody wants from you to translate the entire thing. Just throw us a
bone here from time to time. B-Club's publication revitalized the BGC
fan community, giving us fresh unknown information, and by it,
enriching our OVA experience.
On Nov 13, 2:07 am, Dartz <dartz....@gmail.com> wrote:
> You're speculating aswell man. What makes my speculations any less
> valid than yours? There's nothing in bclub that calls hardsuits
> 'spacesuits'. No source at all calls hardsuits spacesuits.
And that's what it is. Speculation. Never claimed differently.
"Boomers as artificial labor force in space" thesis you presented as
confirmed canon. If you added that it's your personal stance, I
wouldn't say anything. I haven't even mentioned your idea of hardsuits
as post-earthquake rescue suits because you labeled as conjecture. Of
course, we can discuss which speculation is more plausible based on
established canon and thereby have additional plausible explanations
that writers didn't gave.
>At the same
> time, the RPG manual does suggest boomers were developed for space,
> and official drawings included in the manuals do also corroberate
> this.
Dartz, the RPG is not an official handbook. Don't rely on it. And a
drawing doesn't prove anything without an adjoining text.
Alemann
Amanda Stair
English easily doesn't mean I can do the same for Japanese, even with
a BA. None of the students I shared classes with came even CLOSE to
knowing all 2,000+ kanji by graduation. Oh heck no. Especially with
BGC, a sci-fi anime, there's gonna be a lot of words I don't know, so
I have to sit there and look up the kanji (if I don't know it), figure
out which reading it uses (each kanji has more than one reading), then
try to put the words together in a coherent sentence, which is NOT
easy -- English is an SVO language, and Japanese is SOV, and that's
putting it waaay too simply.
Here's a funny example I like to use, that someone did something and
it affected you (this is something that actually was in one of my
textbooks). "Watashi wa inu ni shinarareta." Literally "I was died
by my dog." No one would put it like that, of course. A more
appropriate way to put it is "My dog died [and it affected me]."
That's just ONE thing I gotta put up with. If I translated stuff
literally it would look very...interesting. So I have to spend time
figuring out how it would sound best and natural in English.
Some years ago I got my hands on the Red Eyes script, and I did a few
scenes from that just for the heck of it, for my own enjoyment (and
besides, AnimEigo already did a translation). I also have the two
novels, which I've had for years but haven't even attempted to
translate, because that is a LOT of text to deal with. Not to mention
I don't know what the demand is, and I wouldn't want to go through all
that work only to have nobody read it. If somebody wants me to do it,
sure, I'll do it, but I'd want to be compensated fairly for my time
and effort (and potential brain breakage, which has happened before).
The odd line or caption here or there, I can do for free, fine. But
if you want me to do a whole book (and I'm pretty sure you DID say you
wanted me to do the whole thing), well, that adds up to a lot of
passages and a lot of time I could spend doing other things, so yes,
I'd want to be compensated.
Amanda
Alemann
> Translating is hard work.
Tell me about it.
> Just because you and Fabian speak and read
> English easily doesn't mean I can do the same for Japanese, even with
> a BA.
I didn't presume, but you do give an impression of a solid non-native
speaker. I wonder why did you stop at a B.A.
> None of the students I shared classes with came even CLOSE to
> knowing all 2,000+ kanji by graduation. Oh heck no.
It didn't even cross my mind. Now even adult native speaker know so
much. Do you know how much JLPT fares against a B.A. in japanese?
> Especially with
> BGC, a sci-fi anime, there's gonna be a lot of words I don't know,
BGC doesn't strike me as an sci-fi filled with many japanese
neologisms. All the sc-fi jargon I heard is english: boomer, motoroid,
motoslave, hardsuit, etc.
> I have to sit there and look up the kanji (if I don't know it), figure
> out which reading it uses (each kanji has more than one reading), then
> try to put the words together in a coherent sentence, which is NOT
> easy
That's the question of the sign system, not language.
> English is an SVO language, and Japanese is SOV, and that's
> putting it waaay too simply.
I know. I have a linguistics B.A. =P
> Here's a funny example I like to use, that someone did something and
> it affected you (this is something that actually was in one of my
> textbooks). "Watashi wa inu ni shinarareta." Literally "I was died
> by my dog." No one would put it like that, of course. A more
> appropriate way to put it is "My dog died [and it affected me]."
> That's just ONE thing I gotta put up with. If I translated stuff
> literally it would look very...interesting. So I have to spend time
> figuring out how it would sound best and natural in English.
Uncontroversial. Japanese is an agglutinative language. English is an
inflectionally poor language compared to mine, not to mention I had a
hungarian class. It's understandable you don't "get it" (Well,
actually you do.)
> The odd line or caption here or there, I can do for free, fine. But
> if you want me to do a whole book (and I'm pretty sure you DID say you
> wanted me to do the whole thing), well, that adds up to a lot of
> passages and a lot of time I could spend doing other things, so yes,
> I'd want to be compensated.
A complete translation is a lofty dream; I doubt many would read it.
The BGC fanbase is dead.
Alemann
Amanda Stair
> On Nov 13, 7:48 pm, Amanda Stair <ksyumekoc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Translating is hard work.
>
> Tell me about it.
>
> > Just because you and Fabian speak and read
> > English easily doesn't mean I can do the same for Japanese, even with
> > a BA.
>
> I didn't presume, but you do give an impression of a solid non-native
> speaker. I wonder why did you stop at a B.A.
My dad died three months before graduation. I'd intended to keep
going but because of that I figured I'd take a break. In '07 I took
the GRE and submitted an application for grad school, but was told
there was no room. Other RL things happened right after that that
have kept me from going.
> > None of the students I shared classes with came even CLOSE to
> > knowing all 2,000+ kanji by graduation. Oh heck no.
>
> It didn't even cross my mind. Now even adult native speaker know so
> much. Do you know how much JLPT fares against a B.A. in japanese?
I took Level 2 (second-hardest) of the JLPT shortly before
graduation. Failed -_-* I'd be able to pass Level 3 just fine, but
there is a HUGE jump in difficulty going from 3 to 2.
>
> > Especially with
> > BGC, a sci-fi anime, there's gonna be a lot of words I don't know,
>
> BGC doesn't strike me as an sci-fi filled with many japanese
> neologisms. All the sc-fi jargon I heard is english: boomer, motoroid,
> motoslave, hardsuit, etc.
Aside from those ;)
*snip*
Amanda
Alemann
> My dad died three months before graduation. I'd intended to keep
> going but because of that I figured I'd take a break. In '07 I took
> the GRE and submitted an application for grad school, but was told
> there was no room. Other RL things happened right after that that
> have kept me from going.
Don't tell me you intend to work forever at Walgreens?! You shouldn't
give up your dreams. Keep going.
Alemann
Dartz
Ive always wanted to say this. And I'vm finallky fucking drunk enough.
Dude.
Fuck off.
-me
Rob Kelk
wrote:
<massive snip>
Go read these threads (except for the spam, that is):
http://groups.google.com/group/googlegroupskillfile?lnk=srg
--
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"Aggresive killfiling. I highly recommend it. It isn't personal;
there's just a limited number of hours in the day."
- Russ Allbery (<http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>), in message
<yl66l68...@windlord.stanford.edu>
Dustin Kopplin
You had to get drunk enough to say that to him? That shouldnt take any
effort regardless of the amount of alcohol you consumed :)
Plus, anyone who puts "k" after "l" in a word sounds really wasted :)
antagonist
> You had to get drunk enough to say that to him? That shouldnt take any
> effort regardless of the amount of alcohol you consumed :)
>
> Plus, anyone who puts "k" after "l" in a word sounds really wasted :)
Oh, trust me...he was. I had to promise him not to speak of the more
embarrassing details, though. 3 pitchers, though...that's gotta have some
influence...
Antagonist
Rob Kelk
<apexff...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Plus, anyone who puts "k" after "l" in a word sounds really wasted :)
I just know you're going to milk that for all it's worth... Oh, drat.
--
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"As far as Doug is concerned, "dignity" is just a tragic disease that
other people suffer from."
- Bob Schroeck, talking about his V&V character, 15 March 2005
Dr Raven
Based on the most obvious benefits we see in the series, and knowing
Katsuhito wanted to help humans rather than just find ways for them
*not* to do work, my feeling is similar to yours, that the suits were
originally designed to help humans work alongside boomers in space or
on earth. The suits amplify the strength of the wearer so a human
could lift and move more weight than a person possibly could without
the suit, and they have the capability to allow the wearer to fly so I
can see them being used on large or tall construction sites on earth.
The flight maneuverability could be used in space as well as you point
out, but they would need some work because there are small gaps in the
suits joints (neck, elbows, hips etc.) that allow flexibility, but
wouldn't protect from intense cold or provide a proper oxygen seal.
The weapons were Sylia's idea ;)
Pops
Alemann
> Based on the most obvious benefits we see in the series, and knowing
> Katsuhito wanted to help humans rather than just find ways for them
> *not* to do work, my feeling is similar to yours, that the suits were
> originally designed to help humans work alongside boomers in space or
> on earth.
Wouldn't this be a bad economical move? If boomers are able to take
over human physical labor completely, additional human workers are
unnecessary, not to mention, from an employer's view, costlier than
boomers (salary, medical plan, dental plan, workers' right, etc.) The
same way western companies like Nike or Sony have their factories in
southeastern Asia with workers that accept lower salaries and have
meager workers' rights then in their mother countries.
> The suits amplify the strength of the wearer so a human
> could lift and move more weight than a person possibly could without
> the suit, and they have the capability to allow the wearer to fly so I
> can see them being used on large or tall construction sites on earth.
The astronaut style helmets show, at least to me, that Katsuhito had
only work in space in mind. Humans have the means, that is machines,
to move and heave heavy objects in building construction. Non-gravity
environment is a different story.
> The flight maneuverability could be used in space as well as you point
> out, but they would need some work because there are small gaps in the
> suits joints (neck, elbows, hips etc.) that allow flexibility, but
> wouldn't protect from intense cold or provide a proper oxygen seal.
That could be the reason why the hard(space)suits were an abandoned
project of Katsuhito. He couldn't solve those problems you mentioned,
and the hardsuit (I have only Sylia's in mind; she didn't design it)
looked like it was additionally adapted for combat use on a planet
prior than put on the Data Unit, not to mention made for a female
adult to wear with a possibility of hinting about the sender's
gender.
> The weapons were Sylia's idea ;)
Depends on what you mean by it. The rail gun concept exists in real
world, and they all have generic lasers. I'd say she bought those
weapons, and implemented them on the hardsuits. The only thing that
*is* unclear are Linna's ribbons. Such shrewd material had to exists
prior, and Sylia used it in an original way, as one of possibilities.
Alemann