What Genre do Priss and the Replicants play?
Dartz
Not J-pop, or rock and roll... that's too general. 80's pop doesn't
seem right in the 21st century. Urban-pop? What do ye think?
-Dartz
Rob Kelk
wrote:
>That's a quicky
>
>Not J-pop, or rock and roll... that's too general. 80's pop doesn't
>seem right in the 21st century. Urban-pop? What do ye think?
The comic book called it "retrothrash". But simply hanging a name on
something doesn't describe it...
I'd call it J-Rock.
Alemann
On japanese wikipedia, it's described as "popular rock". I'd say,
whatever people (will) listen to in 2030's in Japan.
Alemann
Alemann
> The comic book called it "retrothrash".
Adam Warren is a moron.
Alemann
Dartz
That's a bit basic though.... I was looking for something other than
just 'pop'. Retrothrash sounds nice, especially since the 80's seem to
be the in thing in 2032. Any other idea's? I'm trying to think of what
Priss would call what she does...
-Dartz
antagonist
Say about him what you will, I wish I could draw half as good as he does.
Also, I'm pretty sure Priss sang rougher stuff when she was with that
biker gang, and only changed her style some time before episode 1. Grand
Mal is a prequel to the show, don't forget that.
And TBH, I think the comic is quite awesome. If only because of the WMD
part hehe. ("Mess with me and you're getting into a high intensity
conflict, a nightmare scenario with a low probability of survival. 'Cause
I'm a weapon baby, a weapon of mass destruction") :D
And hey, without it, there would have been no BubbleGum Pink ;_;
/cue Amanda's scream of utter rage :D
Alemann
> Retrothrash sounds nice, especially since the 80's seem to
> be the in thing in 2032.
Priss doesn't sing oldies and evergreens. Her and Vision's music is
standard music of that world. "Retrotrash" is Warren's lame attempt at
making his story intelligent by being aware of its quirks.
> Any other idea's? I'm trying to think of what
> Priss would call what she does...
A hobby (Blow Up). ;)
Alemann
> Say about him what you will, I wish I could draw half as good as he does.
I didn't read Grand Mal.
> Also, I'm pretty sure Priss sang rougher stuff when she was with that
> biker gang, and only changed her style some time before episode 1.
Warren the dolt had this stupid idea Priss is a retro singer.
Why do you think she had a different music style before Tinsel City?
She has fans, and sudden change of music style is a dumb move. As a
small-time singer, she can't afford to experiment.
> Grand Mal is a prequel to the show, don't forget that.
No, it's not.
Alemann
Dartz
I'm doing the same thing in my story. It's the style of the times.
Fasion goes in circles, does it not? It's not retro-futuristic. It's
2032. It's power and confidence of the greatest economic boom since
the early 80's, colour and energy, writhing with change and a
simplified design ethic. The graphics displayed by computers aren't
limited, they're deliberately restrained... tell the human operator
nothing more than what he needs to know. It's the style of the
time.... it just happens to be a style very similar to 1987.
But that's really not what I want to get into
I don't want to call it pop because that's too generic.
Retrothrash.... I see why you'd disagree with it alright. It's not
really 'retro'.... but maybe 'retro' is the name for the style of the
time? Heh.
I just want something that sounds good and is a bit more specific than
'pop'. Something an artist would use to talk themselves up, to
differentiate themself. Technothrash? Urbanthrash? I dunno. Something
like that. Then again, it's the sort of thing I'm crap at.
-Dartz
Dustin Kopplin
That WMD quote, i need to make a song off of that one line, Trey
Parker style.
Ive had the comic on my shelf of "need to read ASAP you lazy SOB" for
over a year, but i did read part of it in the past, and what i read, i
liked.
IDK, i like the name "retrothrash", since it doesnt seem to fit in to
any other genre of music at that time period. New Wave doesnt fit
unless its like Flock of Seagulls or New Order, its not metal or it
would sound like Judas Priest and MegaDeth/Slayer, it goes pretty well
blended with half 80's pop, a teaspoon of metal, and hint of New Wave
all blended in. Accually, they did take homages from the "Streets of
Fire" soundtrack if you really listen to it, that is literally the
best way to describe the music in BGC.
Grand Mal would be considered a prequel due to the fact it does take
place before the series. Alam, you seem to deny anything that not by
AIC/Youmex or Artmic when it comes to this series, i do consider this
a prequel, same with AD Police Files (well we all know that).
antagonist
> On Oct 11, 6:10 pm, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Say about him what you will, I wish I could draw half as good as he
>> does.
>
> I didn't read Grand Mal.
And yet you criticise it.
>> Also, I'm pretty sure Priss sang rougher stuff when she was with that
>> biker gang, and only changed her style some time before episode 1.
>
> Warren the dolt had this stupid idea Priss is a retro singer.
So you take this one thing he may or may not have done 'wrong', and hold
it over him, without at all knowing what else he wrote in that book?
> Why do you think she had a different music style before Tinsel City?
> She has fans, and sudden change of music style is a dumb move. As a
> small-time singer, she can't afford to experiment.
Y'know, I'm a metalhead. There are bands who changed their style over time
in that genre. They still play their old stuff live, but later albums
sound entirely different.
Maybe Warren featured Priss singing some of her really old
filled-with-teenage-angst-and-rebellion songs. Maybe *gasp* he's trying to
tell us something? Maybe she's still trying to come to grips with her bf's
death on (supposedly) Genom's hands?
>> Grand Mal is a prequel to the show, don't forget that.
>
> No, it's not.
Yes, it is. BGC happens in 2032/33, depending on the source, Grand Mal at
least one year prior, in 2031.
Amanda Stair
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hmm, I wonder, what DOES Alemann think of ADPF? I know it has a
completely different tone than BGC, but in my book it IS an official
prequel.
Amanda
Alemann
> I just want something that sounds good and is a bit more specific than
> 'pop'. Something an artist would use to talk themselves up, to
> differentiate themself. Technothrash? Urbanthrash? I dunno. Something
> like that. Then again, it's the sort of thing I'm crap at.
Just call it rock. Priss wouldn't mind ;)
On Oct 11, 11:18 pm, Dustin Kopplin <apexffspe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IDK, i like the name "retrothrash", since it doesnt seem to fit in to
> any other genre of music at that time period.
How much do we know about BGC inworld popular music? Priss opening
song and Vision's two singles. We can't say anything substantial.
Vision's a world popular singer, and Priss underground singer, player,
and composer. Vision sing pop music, not J-Pop, as she isn't japanese.
Priss sings underground rock. Amanda is a japanophile. She know more
about music houses in Japan than me.
> Grand Mal would be considered a prequel due to the fact it does take
> place before the series.
Just because it can be put in the storyline without disrupting the
canon, it doesn't me it's canon. Purple Knight Saber and Bubblegum
Cross happen after the OVAs. Does it mean they're canon?
> Alam, you seem to deny anything that not by
> AIC/Youmex or Artmic when it comes to this series, i do consider this
> a prequel, same with AD Police Files (well we all know that).
What you said is redicilous. AIC and others are official creators.
Everything else is non canon until the makers say it ain't so.
On Oct 11, 8:52 pm, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Y'know, I'm a metalhead. There are bands who changed their style over time
> in that genre. They still play their old stuff live, but later albums
> sound entirely different.
Priss is not a commercial singer. She doesn't publish mainstream
albums. She's a performer in a music club.
> Maybe Warren featured Priss singing some of her really old
> filled-with-teenage-angst-and-rebellion songs. Maybe *gasp* he's trying to
> tell us something? Maybe she's still trying to come to grips with her bf's
> death on (supposedly) Genom's hands?
Warren's turds are of no relevance. Priss's image song "Remember"
talks about her dead boyfriend.
> Yes, it is. BGC happens in 2032/33, depending on the source, Grand Mal at
> least one year prior, in 2031.
Where's the official statement that Grand Mal is canon? It's fan
fiction, not written but drawn.
On Oct 12, 6:44 am, Amanda Stair <ksyumekoc...@aol.com> wrote:
> Hmm, I wonder, what DOES Alemann think of ADPF? I know it has a
> completely different tone than BGC, but in my book it IS an official
> prequel.
Official canon:
AD. Police Files (OVA), AD. Police: Deadend City (Comic), Bubblegum
Crisis (OVA), my future fanfictions.
Suzuki wrote two BGC novels: Bubblegum Crisis: Silent Fanfare and
Bubblegum Crisis Break Down-48. They also might be canon, but they
never got translated to english, so I can't say.
Alemann
Amanda Stair
Ok ok, now you're getting cocky saying that your fanfics are official
canon, when practically in the same sentence you said others (and you
named mine as an example) aren't. What makes you think you can get
away with saying that, huh? Unless Suzuki is secretly working on a
new BGC show and you happen to be one of his writers, no fanfic is
official canon, not even yours.
Amanda
Dustin Kopplin
Dude, WTF?
You say that Warren comic is fanfiction, well, thats the best
illustrated fanfiction ive seen. Then you say your fanfictions are
"official canon"? Your pulling my leg, i know your not serious. Well,
Warren comic got recognition from Sonoda (theres a "great job warren"
tidbit in the beginning") so i dont know how that cannot be official
in some way. How many BGC fanfics has "this is awesome" because Sonoda
can take off his time and read something written by a 14 year old who
just saw the OVA or the TV series for the first time and wanted to
write a fanfic about Leon banging Priss all night long? None.
I would laugh if you have something like that written.
Now... i really wanna read the novels from Suzuki, ive got the May
1993 Animerica issue where they interview Suzuki, and he mentions the
novel which pretty much expands into space and outside of MegaTokyo.
What i ment by my previous statement is "something that has been
published outside of AIC/Artmic/Youmex as canon", im not including
fanfics, no matter how good....or bad they may be. I will believe your
stuff as canon when i see it published.
Gah... im good for now.
Dartz
> On Oct 12, 6:44 am, Amanda Stair <ksyumekoc...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Hmm, I wonder, what DOES Alemann think of ADPF? I know it has a
>
> > completely different tone than BGC, but in my book it IS an official
> > prequel.
>
> Official canon:
>
> AD. Police Files (OVA), AD. Police: Deadend City (Comic), Bubblegum
>
> Suzuki wrote two BGC novels: Bubblegum Crisis: Silent Fanfare and
> Bubblegum Crisis Break Down-48. They also might be canon, but they
> never got translated to english, so I can't say.
>
> Alemann
Mr Suzuki, I didn't know you'd moved to Croatia!
I dunno. If this was a forum you'dve been banned mate. That's all I'll
say. So anyway. If you're writing a fanfic that's good enough to be
cannon... show it... or forever hold your piece. And if it is in
anyway decent we'll eat our words. Somehow though, I think we'll be
going hungry.
>>
Anyway, clinging depsperately to topic..
Priss did sort of remind me of Kim Wilde. That'd be New Wave, wouldn't
it? But New Wave is old wash, the tide has gone out on it. Calling the
music of 2032 'New wave' would be a bit off. Streets of Fire is
obviously Steinmann writing the music... it doesn't sound like Priss,
it's really much more of a traditional rock sound. Awesome enough to
have Priss remark 'nowhere fast' and alllude to it though....
The Replicants sound changing... I'd believe it... I mean, Priss
herslf probably matured quite a bit since her 'job interview' with
Sylia.
But then again, I'm about as musical as a wet fart. I know what I
likes, but I find it hard to describe.
-Ian
Alemann
> You say that Warren comic is fanfiction, well, thats the best
> illustrated fanfiction ive seen. Then you say your fanfictions are
> "official canon"? Your pulling my leg, i know your not serious. Well,
> Warren comic got recognition from Sonoda (theres a "great job warren"
> tidbit in the beginning") so i dont know how that cannot be official
> in some way. How many BGC fanfics has "this is awesome" because Sonoda
> can take off his time and read something written by a 14 year old who
> just saw the OVA or the TV series for the first time and wanted to
> write a fanfic about Leon banging Priss all night long? None.
First, Sonoda isn't Suzuki. He's the original character designer who
got booted before Bubblegum Crisis ended. Second, he only gives Warren
pat on the back for his works. There was nothing more to it. Third,
Sonoda easily read Grand Mal if it's backed up by Dark Horse, then
hosted on an obscure fanfiction site. Everybody could get appraised
like this, irrespective of quality.
> I would laugh if you have something like that written.
Such ideas don't run through my head, Kopplin.
> What i ment by my previous statement is "something that has been
> published outside of AIC/Artmic/Youmex as canon", im not including
> fanfics, no matter how good....or bad they may be.
Grand Mal is fanfiction.
On Oct 12, 6:06 pm, Dartz <dartz....@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you're writing a fanfic that's good enough to be
> cannon... show it... or forever hold your piece. And if it is in
> anyway decent we'll eat our words. Somehow though, I think we'll be
> going hungry.
I am writing BGC 09 "Lethal Liberty", but it's in early draft phase,
with story arc's possible second part BGC 10 "Metal Soul". Next to it,
I have an ingenious idea for an Evangelion sequel that can work and a
very original take on Data Unit's sender's identity and his connection
to Largo. Could I get banned for this?
> Priss did sort of remind me of Kim Wilde. That'd be New Wave, wouldn't
> it? But New Wave is old wash, the tide has gone out on it. Calling the
> music of 2032 'New wave' would be a bit off. Streets of Fire is
> obviously Steinmann writing the music... it doesn't sound like Priss,
> it's really much more of a traditional rock sound. Awesome enough to
> have Priss remark 'nowhere fast' and alllude to it though....
Contact Raven's Garage's webmaster. He's musician, maybe he can help
you out.
> The Replicants sound changing... I'd believe it... I mean, Priss
> herslf probably matured quite a bit since her 'job interview' with
> Sylia.
We listened to a single song, Ian! You got nothing to support this
assertion. Priss is not an intellectual person, borderline dumb. She
plays the same generic style all over again.
Matko
Amanda Stair
> On Oct 12, 4:38 pm, Dustin Kopplin <apexffspe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You say that Warren comic is fanfiction, well, thats the best
> > illustrated fanfiction ive seen. Then you say your fanfictions are
> > "official canon"? Your pulling my leg, i know your not serious. Well,
> > Warren comic got recognition from Sonoda (theres a "great job warren"
> > tidbit in the beginning") so i dont know how that cannot be official
> > in some way. How many BGC fanfics has "this is awesome" because Sonoda
> > can take off his time and read something written by a 14 year old who
> > just saw the OVA or the TV series for the first time and wanted to
> > write a fanfic about Leon banging Priss all night long? None.
>
> First, Sonoda isn't Suzuki. He's the original character designer who
> got booted before Bubblegum Crisis ended. Second, he only gives Warren
> pat on the back for his works. There was nothing more to it. Third,
> Sonoda easily read Grand Mal if it's backed up by Dark Horse, then
> hosted on an obscure fanfiction site. Everybody could get appraised
> like this, irrespective of quality.
Grand Mal does have this above fanfics: it DID get officially
published, so that does make it more "official" than any fanfics any
of us have read or written. You may not like it, but it's true.
>
> > I would laugh if you have something like that written.
>
> Such ideas don't run through my head, Kopplin.
>
> > What i ment by my previous statement is "something that has been
> > published outside of AIC/Artmic/Youmex as canon", im not including
> > fanfics, no matter how good....or bad they may be.
>
> Grand Mal is fanfiction.
As I said above, fanfiction or not, it DID get published.
> On Oct 12, 6:06 pm, Dartz <dartz....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If you're writing a fanfic that's good enough to be
> > cannon... show it... or forever hold your piece. And if it is in
> > anyway decent we'll eat our words. Somehow though, I think we'll be
> > going hungry.
>
> I am writing BGC 09 "Lethal Liberty", but it's in early draft phase,
> with story arc's possible second part BGC 10 "Metal Soul". Next to it,
> I have an ingenious idea for an Evangelion sequel that can work and a
> very original take on Data Unit's sender's identity and his connection
> to Largo. Could I get banned for this?
Huh, I thought you were only working on "episode 9" =P Regardless,
you can't get away with saying your stories are "official canon." As
proud as I am of my stories, even *I* am not so arrogant as to claim
mine are official canon. All fanfics are what-if stories. In your
case, yours are YOUR vision of what the remaining five episodes of BGC
would have been like had they come to pass. That's fine and good, but
DON'T call it official canon unless it's got Suzuki's backing.
Although, I have the feeling you claimed that just to rile everybody
up, and in that, you succeeded. Unfortunately.
Though if you DID say that just to rile everybody up, then that DOES
make you a troll.
>
> > Priss did sort of remind me of Kim Wilde. That'd be New Wave, wouldn't
> > it? But New Wave is old wash, the tide has gone out on it. Calling the
> > music of 2032 'New wave' would be a bit off. Streets of Fire is
> > obviously Steinmann writing the music... it doesn't sound like Priss,
> > it's really much more of a traditional rock sound. Awesome enough to
> > have Priss remark 'nowhere fast' and alllude to it though....
>
> Contact Raven's Garage's webmaster. He's musician, maybe he can help
> you out.
>
> > The Replicants sound changing... I'd believe it... I mean, Priss
> > herslf probably matured quite a bit since her 'job interview' with
> > Sylia.
>
> We listened to a single song, Ian! You got nothing to support this
> assertion. Priss is not an intellectual person, borderline dumb. She
> plays the same generic style all over again.
>
> Matko
Priss obviously has some brains (she knew how to stay alive on the
streets as a mere teen), or Sylia wouldn't have recruited her. A
waste to train somebody and build a suit for them if they're only
gonna get themselves killed on their first outing, right? But if
you're only talking musical-wise, take another listen. Compare Konya
wa Hurricane to Chase the Dream. A tad different, wouldn't you say?
Granted, not as drastic a difference as comparing Metallica's debut
album to, say, their Black Album, but I think it's a stretch to be
calling Priss' music the equivalent of AC/DC (whose songs DO sound
largely the same).
Amanda
Alemann
> Grand Mal does have this above fanfics: it DID get officially
> published, so that does make it more "official" than any fanfics any
> of us have read or written. You may not like it, but it's true.
It got published by a reputable publisher, so it got more spotlight,
but it's not more canon than your average fan fic from fan fiction.net
Why did Sonoda placard and not Suzuki? For all practical purposes, he
ignored it, just like every BGC fan fic in existence.
> Huh, I thought you were only working on "episode 9" =P
I do. Already then, I knew there has to be an episode 10. BGC operates
on story arcs going over a single OVA.
> Regardless,
> you can't get away with saying your stories are "official canon." As
> proud as I am of my stories, even *I* am not so arrogant as to claim
> mine are official canon. All fanfics are what-if stories. In your
> case, yours are YOUR vision of what the remaining five episodes of BGC
> would have been like had they come to pass. That's fine and good, but
> DON'T call it official canon unless it's got Suzuki's backing.
> Although, I have the feeling you claimed that just to rile everybody
> up, and in that, you succeeded. Unfortunately.
I never listed Crash as official canon. Hasn't anybody noticed it?
Crash is official canon, but I reject it. It isn't official canon for
me, just like Grand Mal. I gave what official canon should be. I added
myself just for the hell of it. My stories are official canon - for
myself. If I miscommunicated, I'm sorry. Didn't want to result in
insulting people.
> Priss obviously has some brains (she knew how to stay alive on the
> streets as a mere teen), or Sylia wouldn't have recruited her.
Streets smarts aren't brain smarts. Only learned behavior, like an
animal learn to survive in its habitat.
> A waste to train somebody and build a suit for them if they're only
> gonna get themselves killed on their first outing, right?
Priss did that, several times. She almost died in Tinsel City,
Moonlight Rambler, Red Eyes, Double Vision - and smashed Highway Star.
Her actions don't reveal a tactical, intelligent person. She survived
more by luck and bad writing than actual combat talent.
> But if
> you're only talking musical-wise, take another listen. Compare Konya
> wa Hurricane to Chase the Dream. A tad different, wouldn't you say?
> Granted, not as drastic a difference as comparing Metallica's debut
> album to, say, their Black Album, but I think it's a stretch to be
> calling Priss' music the equivalent of AC/DC (whose songs DO sound
> largely the same).
Amanda, where is it told Kinuko's songs are Priss's songs performed at
Hot Legs? "Tonight, a Hurricane" is the only song sung by Kinuko as
Priss, image songs notwithstanding. One song doesn't tell us anything
about Priss's music style.
Alemann
Amanda Stair
If you'd added "for yourself," there wouldn't have been such a furor
yesterday. The way you worded it, though, did make you seem VERY
arrogant.
>
> > Priss obviously has some brains (she knew how to stay alive on the
> > streets as a mere teen), or Sylia wouldn't have recruited her.
>
> Streets smarts aren't brain smarts. Only learned behavior, like an
> animal learn to survive in its habitat.
Like the KS vs. Boomers, right? ;)
>
> > A waste to train somebody and build a suit for them if they're only
> > gonna get themselves killed on their first outing, right?
>
> Priss did that, several times. She almost died in Tinsel City,
> Moonlight Rambler, Red Eyes, Double Vision - and smashed Highway Star.
> Her actions don't reveal a tactical, intelligent person. She survived
> more by luck and bad writing than actual combat talent.
No, the fan outcry over her planned death in Red Eyes is what saved
her (we could've done without some of the corny lines though). As for
Double Vision, we can argue that was Sylia's fault for sending her out
solo, but then again, it doesn't look like she had much of a choice
given the circumstances.
>
> > But if
> > you're only talking musical-wise, take another listen. Compare Konya
> > wa Hurricane to Chase the Dream. A tad different, wouldn't you say?
> > Granted, not as drastic a difference as comparing Metallica's debut
> > album to, say, their Black Album, but I think it's a stretch to be
> > calling Priss' music the equivalent of AC/DC (whose songs DO sound
> > largely the same).
>
> Amanda, where is it told Kinuko's songs are Priss's songs performed at
> Hot Legs? "Tonight, a Hurricane" is the only song sung by Kinuko as
> Priss, image songs notwithstanding. One song doesn't tell us anything
> about Priss's music style.
>
> Alemann
If Konya wa Hurricane was the only one intended to be Priss' song,
that would've been the only one Oomori sang. But it's not. Just
because it's the only one sung "in concert" doesn't mean it's the only
valid Replicants song. You're the first person I've seen who has even
tried to argue this. WTH?
Amanda
antagonist
> Streets smarts aren't brain smarts. Only learned behavior, like an
> animal learn to survive in its habitat.
Ok, Amanda has touched upon anything you posted enough, except for this,
IMHO. I won't reiterate what she posted just for reiterating's sake.
So you're saying everyone who's living on the streets is precluded from
being smart? Because I know for a fact that isn't true. You're kind of
defeating yourself with that statement by the way, because intelligence
has something to do with perception and breadth of understanding. If
you're stupid in a society as darwinistic as the Megatokyo Fault is made
out to be, you won't stay alive for long. You need to be more cunning than
those around you in order to survive. This counts for every society in
general, but martial ones in particular. Brute strength will only get you
so far.
Then there's the issue of Sylia recruiting Priss. In order to reliably
comprehend tactics and teamwork, two paramount requirements for the
sabers, you need to be brain smart, to borrow the expression from you. You
need your subordinates to keep a cool head under pressure, and IIRC, it
was implied Priss is the sabers' 2IC.
I'm not arguing Priss is a genius or something, she's quite clearly
average in that department. Still, a person of average intelligence
shouldn't have a problem getting a degree if they put their mind to it.
It's just that Priss never wanted to do anything like it.
Anta
Dustin Kopplin
I am going to defend Priss and her actions for just a second. I cant
belive im saying this and this is getting as close to nerd as i want,
to, but lets take her smashing the Highway Star, put yourself in her
position, how would you have handled that differently? I mean, REALLY
THINK ABOUT IT. Yea, Priss character does act on instinct, and at time
does cause her harm, but in the end, the job gets done one way or the
other. When the HS was close to the Grypon at high speeds, the
electric current hindered her from attaching the bike to the vehicles,
and she was running out of distance to get infront of the Gryphon, and
if she did, it would have been creamed first by hitting the giant tank
in road, the bike was doomed to the highway the minute it touched the
ground, so how she instinctivly handled the situation was really the
best way, and i would have probably done the same in her position.
When your in the fight of you life to not only save yourself, but save
the city you live in, every action you do has to count, you cant be
democratic and have to time to plan out a strategy before you enter a
fight, because anything can happen and anything goes, and Priss comes
out the survivor everytime (until she is written off like a character
in 24). In an MMO game, Priss is someone you would have infront of the
party to Tank.
Red Eyes of course she should have died, but due to how much people
like her, she stayed (and honestly her character really didnt do much
after episode 6, or wasnt that huge, at least i think so), and the
fight is still the most epic in the OVA IMO.
And i really enjoy how you really try your best to make your opinion
overpower the series and all logic of "What i say is written in stone
and cannot be changed" when it comes to defending your arguments. Your
acting rather arrogant to what we say, cutting down every opinion to a
microscopic since cell organism, I at least try to respect somethings
people say and their opinions, but i dont respect when people word
what they say as "bow before me fool". If people tone down their egos
below the level of god (and Kayne West), then ill have something to
work with, just saying.
Alemann
> Like the KS vs. Boomers, right? ;)
Sorry, Amanda, I don't understand.
> No, the fan outcry over her planned death in Red Eyes is what saved
> her (we could've done without some of the corny lines though).
She's an untactical, reckless fighter. I can't decide if her motoroid
diversion in Moonlight Rambler was an act of genius or fool. Priss's
planned death in Red Eyes is supposed to be the result of such
thinking and doing, culmination of her stupidity.
> As for
> Double Vision, we can argue that was Sylia's fault for sending her out
> solo, but then again, it doesn't look like she had much of a choice
> given the circumstances.
Sylia should've know better that hardsuits are effective against
boomers, not battlemovers; solo fighting's a no-no for Knight
Sabers.
> If Konya wa Hurricane was the only one intended to be Priss' song,
> that would've been the only one Oomori sang. But it's not. Just
> because it's the only one sung "in concert" doesn't mean it's the only
> valid Replicants song. You're the first person I've seen who has even
> tried to argue this. WTH?
Amanda, it will always be Priss who sings "Wasurenaide" for me, but if
you accept it's Kinuko as Priss, then Yuiko Tsubokura must be an
anonymous Mega Tokyo singer, and Knight Sabers one time really had
sung „Bye,Bye, My Crisis“.
On Oct 14, 6:38 pm, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
> So you're saying everyone who's living on the streets is precluded from
> being smart? Because I know for a fact that isn't true.
Social stratification and Gaussian curve show otherwise. Most high
IQ's are in universities and similar institutions, not the streets.
There are freak exceptions, but you can't beat hard numbers.
> You're kind of
> defeating yourself with that statement by the way, because intelligence
> has something to do with perception and breadth of understanding.
> If you're stupid in a society as darwinistic as the Megatokyo Fault is made
> out to be, you won't stay alive for long. You need to be more cunning than
> those around you in order to survive. This counts for every society in
> general, but martial ones in particular. Brute strength will only get you
> so far.
You can't equate street survival skills with abilities that lead you
all the way to university. They can't be put in same cognitive domain.
I come from a middle class family, so I'm not privileged to know how
life goes on shoddy streets, but hard-wiring a car and solving
calculus problems aren't on same cognitive level. A math professor can
hardwire a car, but a car thief can't solve a calculus problem, just
as there are more people able to steal a car than to teach (and know)
mathematics.
> Then there's the issue of Sylia recruiting Priss. In order to reliably
> comprehend tactics and teamwork, two paramount requirements for the
> sabers, you need to be brain smart, to borrow the expression from you. You
> need your subordinates to keep a cool head under pressure, and IIRC, it
> was implied Priss is the sabers' 2IC.
Priss was never Sylia's deputy. Who gave you such nonsense?
> I'm not arguing Priss is a genius or something, she's quite clearly
> average in that department. Still, a person of average intelligence
> shouldn't have a problem getting a degree if they put their mind to it.
> It's just that Priss never wanted to do anything like it.
Then how do you explain gaussian curve distribution? What is wrong
with people if most of them are doing lower income jobs and a minor
part is on colleges and high income employments that demand
intellectual skill? Classical example: let us have a middle class
family with four children, two of them go to college, one drops of,
other two finish only high school. They all lived in same conditions
and yet had divergent fates. How is that?
Capabilities and talents aren't sprinkled over population so that
everybody can become anything only if he wants it. It's a myth.
Priss's life wouldn't be drastically different if she didn't lost her
parents in the earthquake. She wouldn't live in a trailer, but she
would still linger in low class as a blue collar like her
parents.
Alemann
Amanda Stair
I'm not even gonna reply to anything you just said. The fact you
spent two days trying to come up with more "facts" is all I needed to
see. Is it really that hard to AGREE with someone over SOMETHING?
You just like arguing for the sake of arguing.
Amanda
trbot...@aol.com
Aleman, your logic would make the OMS blow a gasket......
We have no idea what social class her parents were. Maybe they were
blue collar, but its just as possible they were middle or upper
middle. To say Priss would be the same had her parents survived
doesn't stand up because we have nothing to base it on.
Everyone has skills of various levels. There's no reason why a a car
thief can't solve a calculus problem -- it depends on whether he's
ever learned calculus in the first place. I can't solve a calculus
problem, but I've never learned how to. Not because I'm stupid, but
I've never been in a calculus class.
We have skills and we have potential -- two different things. A lot of
skills can be taught, but potential is inherent to the person.
Everyone can be taught the basics of being a soldier, but only a few
really excel at it. The same with most jobs -- the skills can be
taught, but those who potenial is in those skill areas will excel
Priss has the potential of being a major rock and roll star. Nene does
not. OTOH, Nene has forgotten more about hacking than Priss will ever
know. They have two different set of skills and potential.
Now, you have to add in circumstances, like the Earthquake. The
Earthquake destroy a lot more things than buildings -- lives, jobs,
records, society as a whole in the city was seriously fractured.
Without the Earthquake, GENOM doesn't become the massive power it
does. The Earthquake makes the landscape we see in BGC. Without the
Earthquake, we have a much different city, planet and society.
So, your argument doesn't hiold water -- you're trying to build
'facts' on nothing more than air.....
Craig
antagonist
It seems to me you've read too much Bell Curve or something...a book that
pretty much postulates what you just said, and which is criticized by
numerous scientists for it.
Here's the German Wikipedia's article on it, because I CBA copypasting
much of it here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Of course, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone willing to claim Priss can
do calculus of any sort, or maybe even trigonometry, but that's not how
you measure intelligence. As to what Craig said about Priss being an
orphan, which beats the point you're trying to make something good by the
way, if we went with your...er, hypothesis, that would mean the better
part of Megatokyo's quake generation are dumb fucks. Because, like,
y'know, they lived in the streets or, if they were lucky, in tents, with
no means to even get education because the schools were fucking rubble.
Wait one. Wasn't there something like this in not so recent history?.
Yeah. World War II. All major German cities were reduced to rubble, lots
of people dead, lots of orphans running around. If I were to follow your
train of thought, I'd have to have been born a dumb fuck. Now, while I'm
sure some people might want to argue that point because I made them make a
fool of themselves at some point, I know for a fact I'm not stupid at all.
I think the word you've been looking for has been education from the
start. Even dumb fucks can finish university, look at any country's
politicians if you need confirmation. Odds are 9 out of 10 could be
classified as such.
Priss is a victim of circumstance. She is by no means stupid, she just
isn't well-educated. Yeah, street-survival skills have next to nothing to
do with skills that lead you all the way to university, at least at first
glance. Thing is, how fast you learn either set of skills has very well
something to do with intelligence. Therefore, you can infer a connection
between those two entirely different skill sets. That connection is a
person's intelligence.
There's much more to success than mere intelligence, though. The ability
to work in a team, for example. The ability to read people so you know
what they're going to do before they even know it themselves. On all of
these accounts, Priss had to have impressed Sylia a lot to have considered
her joining the Sabers. Since Priss seems to have been the first one
recruited, you can also infer that Sylia built that team around the two of
them. And if you run with that, then Priss is supposed to be the Sabers'
core. Someone who is bad with stuff like that, stuff that pretty much
requires that person to be at least reasonably intelligent, would be a
suboptimal choice as a group's core, right? Which would infer Sylia being
stupid...and that she quite clearly is not.
Antagonist
Dartz
Any idiot can learn how to do calculus. Once you know the formulas.
Don't need to know how it works, just how to do it.
Any idiot can learn to hotwire a car, Once you know which cable to
touch. Don't need to know how it works, just how to do it.
Intelligence is the ability to comprehend and understand, to go beyond
learning how to do, and then making the leap into figuring it out for
yourself, based on what you already know.
People can be intelligent without being knowledgeable, and
knowledgeable without being intelligent. Waffling a bunch of facts of
verbatim then insisting you're right against all logic and argument
doesn't make you intelligent. It makes you a parrot.
And I was originally going to be a lot *less* polite about saying
that.
-Dartz
Alemann
> We have no idea what social class her parents were. Maybe they were
> blue collar, but its just as possible they were middle or upper
> middle. To say Priss would be the same had her parents survived
> doesn't stand up because we have nothing to base it on.
We have basic social laws: people in large cases stay in social
classes they were born.
> Everyone has skills of various levels. There's no reason why a a car
> thief can't solve a calculus problem -- it depends on whether he's
> ever learned calculus in the first place. I can't solve a calculus
> problem, but I've never learned how to. Not because I'm stupid, but
> I've never been in a calculus class.
If the thief has low intelligence, then he won't, except perhaps
basics.
> We have skills and we have potential -- two different things. A lot of
> skills can be taught, but potential is inherent to the person.
> Everyone can be taught the basics of being a soldier, but only a few
> really excel at it. The same with most jobs -- the skills can be
> taught, but those who potential is in those skill areas will excel
And those that excel are a minority. A majority doesn't. They're
mediocrities.
> Now, you have to add in circumstances, like the Earthquake. The
> Earthquake destroy a lot more things than buildings -- lives, jobs,
> records, society as a whole in the city was seriously fractured.
> Without the Earthquake, GENOM doesn't become the massive power it
> does. The Earthquake makes the landscape we see in BGC. Without the
> Earthquake, we have a much different city, planet and society.
I don't know enough sociology do determine to which extent natural
disaster influence social laws and regularities, but, with some
certainty, we can presume Knight Saber's current social status
reflects their parent's and their own pre Kanto-earthquake. Earthquake
or no earthquake, you can't brake social laws.
On Oct 17, 4:46 pm, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
> It seems to me you've read too much Bell Curve or something...a book that
> pretty much postulates what you just said, and which is criticized by
> numerous scientists for it.
I know about the book, I haven't read it.
> As to what Craig said about Priss being an
> orphan, which beats the point you're trying to make something good by the
> way, if we went with your...er, hypothesis, that would mean the better
> part of Megatokyo's quake generation are dumb fucks. Because, like,
> y'know, they lived in the streets or, if they were lucky, in tents, with
> no means to even get education because the schools were fucking rubble.
We don't know much about the quake or victim's demography. The point
I'm trying to make is that the earthquake nor Genom didn't disturb
social hierarchy that was present in Tokyo before it became Mega
Tokyo. The wealthy didn't become less wealthy, the poor less poor.
Wealthier people had the chance to survive. The have money to build
new residences, and if there are orphans, the wealth prevented them
from having a similar fate like Priss's. On the other hand, people of
lower social status were earthquake's largest victims. They don't have
money to buy quality housing, which they didn't have before in first
place, city neglects it's poorest citizens by making ad hoc
orphanages, and older children in most cases aren't adopted. After
they leave the orphanage, the low quality education prevents them from
having quality employment and climbing social ladder. It's a perpetual
circle. Obvious example: Priss. People stayed in their place in social
hierarchy. Genom is not responsible for that, only for individual
human tragedies.
> I think the word you've been looking for has been education from the
> start. Even dumb fucks can finish university, look at any country's
> politicians if you need confirmation. Odds are 9 out of 10 could be
> classified as such.
There are two problems. To many people enter university, and the
program is dumbed down, preventing gifted students from realizing
their potentials
> Priss is a victim of circumstance. She is by no means stupid, she just
> isn't well-educated.
Even if she went through education, it wouldn't change much.
Intelligence determines much of our fate. Priss is a victim, but on a
personal level, because he lost her parents and her home. She'd still
get stuck in her social class.
> Yeah, street-survival skills have next to nothing to
> do with skills that lead you all the way to university, at least at first
> glance. Thing is, how fast you learn either set of skills has very well
> something to do with intelligence. Therefore, you can infer a connection
> between those two entirely different skill sets. That connection is a
> person's intelligence.
Connection is that the second skill set is attainable by a smaller
group then the first one.
> There's much more to success than mere intelligence, though.
Who said it wasn't?
> The ability to work in a team, for example.
Priss lacks in that department; and it depends on personality and
emotional control.
>The ability to read people so you know
> what they're going to do before they even know it themselves.
This says more about Sylia than Priss.
> On all of these accounts, Priss had to have impressed Sylia a lot to have considered
> her joining the Sabers. Since Priss seems to have been the first one
> recruited, you can also infer that Sylia built that team around the two of
> them. And if you run with that, then Priss is supposed to be the Sabers'
> core. Someone who is bad with stuff like that, stuff that pretty much
> requires that person to be at least reasonably intelligent, would be a
> suboptimal choice as a group's core, right? Which would infer Sylia being
> stupid...and that she quite clearly is not.
Sylia, Priss, and Linna fulfill the same role as fighters. Sylia has
the added function of the leader, and she discriminated Priss and
Linna by giving intelligence gathering to Nene. She isn't stupid; she
know who belongs to which role – according to their intellectual
capabilities.
Alemann
trbot...@aol.com
> On Oct 17, 6:01 pm, "trbotur...@aol.com" <trbotur...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > We have no idea what social class her parents were. Maybe they were
> > blue collar, but its just as possible they were middle or upper
> > middle. To say Priss would be the same had her parents survived
> > doesn't stand up because we have nothing to base it on.
>
> We have basic social laws: people in large cases stay in social
> classes they were born.
Really? I didn't realize there were such 'laws'. And the Eathquake
affected everyone -- people lost business, their families, their
lives. To parden the pun, the earthquake leveled the playing field --
everyone was knocked down to the same level of society.n The city
still hasn't recovered when BGC opens.
>
> > Everyone has skills of various levels. There's no reason why a a car
> > thief can't solve a calculus problem -- it depends on whether he's
> > ever learned calculus in the first place. I can't solve a calculus
> > problem, but I've never learned how to. Not because I'm stupid, but
> > I've never been in a calculus class.
>
> If the thief has low intelligence, then he won't, except perhaps
> basics.
>
If the thief is stupid, he'll be spending more time in prison than
stealing.....
> > We have skills and we have potential -- two different things. A lot of
> > skills can be taught, but potential is inherent to the person.
> > Everyone can be taught the basics of being a soldier, but only a few
> > really excel at it. The same with most jobs -- the skills can be
> > taught, but those who potential is in those skill areas will excel
>
> And those that excel are a minority. A majority doesn't. They're
> mediocrities.
I never said everyone would excel. Only those with potential and the
skills to do so will.
>
> > Now, you have to add in circumstances, like the Earthquake. The
> > Earthquake destroy a lot more things than buildings -- lives, jobs,
> > records, society as a whole in the city was seriously fractured.
> > Without the Earthquake, GENOM doesn't become the massive power it
> > does. The Earthquake makes the landscape we see in BGC. �Without the
> > Earthquake, we have a much different city, planet and society.
>
> I don't know enough sociology do determine to which extent natural
> disaster influence social laws and regularities, but, with some
> certainty, we can presume Knight Saber's current social status
> reflects their parent's and their own pre Kanto-earthquake. Earthquake
> or no earthquake, you can't brake social laws.
Oh yes you can -- those so-call 'social laws' are broken every day.
People with the skills, talents and abilities will always rise in
society, assuming the government allows them to. Athleates, actors,
singers, authors, business people are all examples of people who break
those social laws you insist are unbreakable. And people who are at
the top will sink if they don't have the skills and abilities to stay
there.
So, you can't state with certainty about Priss' background things that
are not in evidence. We know nothing about Priss' or Linna's parents,
and we know nothing about Sylia's mother. So any statements on them
are like my theory about Sho being Priss' Nephew -- it's nothing more
than conjecture.....
Craig
Alemann
> So, you can't state with certainty about Priss' background things that
> are not in evidence. We know nothing about Priss' or Linna's parents,
> and we know nothing about Sylia's mother. So any statements on them
> are like my theory about Sho being Priss' Nephew -- it's nothing more
> than conjecture.....
>
> Craig
If you want to believe Priss lived in a villa before 2022, be my
guest. :D
Alemann
Dartz
Oh please, everybody knows Priss is from Australia. All the Sabers
are. Kangaroo's come from australia, don't they?
-Dartz
antagonist
And they wore loincloths. Not to forget the loincloths...
Oh, and they ate maggots and stuff, while we're at it.
Could very well be the case, after all, we know nothing about Priss'
pre-quake life. Only an idiot would jump to conclusions in that regard.
Antagonist