BGC Yuri Fanfic Question

[ZK273]

We've read 'em, we're written' em, we've even MSTied a select few of
them. BGC yuri fanfics. I've seen a lot of pairings getting some
attention - Priss/Sylvie, Linna/Sylia, and Priss/Nene are the most
obvious - but I'm curious as to whether any have been written about
Sylvie and Anri. Are their any such fics floating about the
Intertubes? And if so, how are they?

Thanks in advance.

[Andy Skuse]

The BGC Fanfic Guide that went 404 a while back has been archived
(Craig Wigda contacted me a while back and gave his OK) at
ravensgarage.com so you might take a look there. It has not been
updated since 2000 but I fixed all of the fic links to properly
connect to r.a.a.c. again.

http://www.ravensgarage.com/bgcfanfic_guide/bgc.html

Pops

[tslu...@gmail.com]

On Aug 1, 11:14 am, Andy Skuse <ask...@ody.ca> wrote:

> The BGC Fanfic Guide that went 404 a while back has been archived
> (Craig Wigda contacted me a while back and gave his OK) at
> ravensgarage.com so you might take a look there. It has not been
> updated since 2000 but I fixed all of the fic links to properly
> connect to r.a.a.c. again.
>
> http://www.ravensgarage.com/bgcfanfic_guide/bgc.html
>
> Pops

OK, I can see that a few fics focus on our fave 33-S Boomers, but only
one or two that really come close to yuri as far as I can tell. I
could write one m'self if I really felt courageous or ambitious
enough, or we could convince Shane or Amanda to write one. LOL

All in all, a fine resource! Thanks, Po-- uhh, I mean, Doctor!

[Alemann]

Amanda doesn't write such things. She's a lady.

~ Alemann

[Amanda Stair]

I wrote a very very short one last year (Silver Tears, it's on ff.net)
focusing on Anri that basically bridges the gap between eps. 5 and 6.
In that she implied she and Sylvie had something going on but I didn't
go any further than that 0=)

Amanda

[Alemann]

I guess when I read it, I didn't notice it.

~ Alemann

[Alemann]

This is slightly off topic, but when it comes to BGC, it has one of
the worst fan-fiction communities. Barely anybody attempts to write in
a serious way viz., continuing the official storyline. Most of the
stories are just dumb crossovers, lemons, parodies, etc. In the
Bubblegum Crisis Fan-fiction Guide, the least represented category is
"ORIGINAL", which is sad considering that fans should've filled that
gaping hole after Scoop Chase if they wanted that badly that the OVA
ever gets completed.

~ Alemann

[trbot...@aol.com]

The problem is the OVA series is pushing twenty years old right now
(Yes 20!!) It was one of the first Animes I ever saw, and the first
that made me realize that Animated did not equal for kids only. So the
new breed that's been brought up on Naruto or Inu Yasha have either
never seen it, or dismiss it as 'old'. And let's face it, BGC 2040
doesn't help. When people hear BGC, they are thinking 2040, not OVA.

There are a few Original BGC fics out there. Amanda's done it, and so
have I. Bert, when he's not punching out bad guy in COH or punching
out defenseless pine boards, tries to write. But is there's any BGC FF
out thse days, it's almost always 2040.....

Craig

[Alemann]

The age is not the problem; Dragon Ball Z or Evangelion aren't fresh
either, but you don't see a decline of interest in the near future.
But on the other hand, OVAs don't have a interest duration like TV
series. A video market doesn't expose you like a TV broadcast, and
even given in consideration that BGC was never popular in Japan, you
have a recipe for a marginalization and decline of interest.

One part of the fault carry the western fans. All senior posters,
except Stainless Steel Rat, Dr. Raven, and Amanda, have fled this
group like a rat pack. The fan pages, safe a few, are 404 for a long
time. Everybody just lost interest.

I blame AIC too. They aren't maternal to this franchise either. All
spin offs were, let's be frank, not good and a disrespect to the
original. The way of execution, and a drawing style not making a
connection with the original, made a gap between the younger viewers
that saw 2040, for instance, and have no need to watch the OVAs.

Let us hope the movie will renew the interest, as it is based on the
original.

The fan fic status. I know, Amanda has written, but her storyline
aren't quite adaptable to the original except, perhaps, Silver Tears.
Bert wrote that horrible self insertion Bubblegum Zone. I never
stumbled on anything other by him. Skuse writes his Bubblegum Cross
over a decade now. With all due respect to Skuse, he's a nice guy, but
Cross is slowly becoming the Duke Nukem Forever of BGC literary works;
it took Tolstoy less to finish War and Piece. I haven't read anything
from you, Craig (Wigda?) Can you recommend me anything?

~ Alemann

[Rob Kelk]

We're still here, just not posting very much. Life gets in the way
sometimes, don't'y'know...

>I blame AIC too. They aren't maternal to this franchise either. All
>spin offs were, let's be frank, not good and a disrespect to the
>original. The way of execution, and a drawing style not making a
>connection with the original, made a gap between the younger viewers
>that saw 2040, for instance, and have no need to watch the OVAs.
>
>Let us hope the movie will renew the interest, as it is based on the
>original.

I'll point out that 2040 was based on the original, too. I'm not getting
my hopes up yet.

>The fan fic status. I know, Amanda has written, but her storyline
>aren't quite adaptable to the original except, perhaps, Silver Tears.
>Bert wrote that horrible self insertion Bubblegum Zone. I never
>stumbled on anything other by him. Skuse writes his Bubblegum Cross
>over a decade now. With all due respect to Skuse, he's a nice guy, but
>Cross is slowly becoming the Duke Nukem Forever of BGC literary works;
>it took Tolstoy less to finish War and Piece. I haven't read anything
>from you, Craig (Wigda?) Can you recommend me anything?

Craig's BGC fanfics can be found at
http://www.geocities.com/trboturtle/bgc/bgcrisis.html

(And mine - all two and a half of them - can be found at
http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/fanfics/index.html Scroll way down to
near the bottom of the page...)

BTW, what do you feel is so wrong about Bubblegum Zone? BGZ is one of my
five favourite fanfics in any style for any property, so I'm curious as
to what makes somebody else think it's bad.

--
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"There's always somebody who's going to hate your work, no matter
how good it is. DON'T LET HIM CHASE YOU AWAY FROM WRITING, BECAUSE
THAT WAY HE WINS." - Robert M. Schroeck, 18 July 2006

[Amanda Stair]

> Craig's BGC fanfics can be found athttp://www.geocities.com/trboturtle/bgc/bgcrisis.html
>
> (And mine - all two and a half of them - can be found athttp://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/fanfics/index.html Scroll way down to

> near the bottom of the page...)
>
> BTW, what do you feel is so wrong about Bubblegum Zone? BGZ is one of my
> five favourite fanfics in any style for any property, so I'm curious as
> to what makes somebody else think it's bad.
>
> --
> Rob Kelk      Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
>  "There's always somebody who's going to hate your work, no matter
>  how good it is.  DON'T LET HIM CHASE YOU AWAY FROM WRITING, BECAUSE

>  THAT WAY HE WINS."               - Robert M. Schroeck, 18 July 2006- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Allemann:

It's long, but certainly not bad by any means. Worth the read for
sure. Don't base your opinion on just the first few parts. Once it
gets past where the OVAs end things really get interesting.

And Craig Wigda is the guy who (used to) host the BGC Fanfic Guide.
The Craig posting on here is Craig Reed, author of "Black Knights,
Steel Hearts" along with "Bubblegum Avatar."

Amanda

[Alemann]

I admit. I didn't read it entirely. I stopped after part four. I found
it to annoying and to badly written to continue. First, self
insertions are a bad idea to begin with, especially when you use them
for living out your fantasies caused by social isolation. When
somebody writes how he dates an anime character like Nene or talks
about his real personal issues of being a nerd and having to friends,
than, man, I don't to want to have anything to do with it.

Secondly, why is every fan fiction writer who rewrites the original
storyline bent on saving Irene, Sylvie, and Anri? Can't they accept
they're dead? They show no respect for the original continuity.

Thirdly, the Knight Sabers were thinly written and out of character.

Fourth, his writing skill is awful. In the action scenes, most of the
sentences are: ________________ as ________________, making the
already bad read even worse with this tiring, and long winded
sentences. Over half or story is written like this. In a hectic scene,
sentences are short, or if it's a long one, it's full of commas to
create a fast, rhythmic pace.

Fifth, his hard-suit is ridiculous, and don't let me start with the
"weapons" who look like they came out of Darkwing Duck.

There are probably more things I can mention, but I can't remember at
this moment. The redeeming value I can find is that it doesn't beat
the mother of all bad BGC self insertions - Hopelessly Lost. Zone has
a plot, but HL is essentially about nothing. It's a plotless story.
Two losers go to Mega Tokyo doing random things while going after
their favorite KS and saving Irene - again! And, like him, they can't
stop yapping about ridiculous hardware upgrades whiled adding annoying
Iron Man references.

I might give the story another chance and read it, and sorry about the
Craig switch-up.

~ Alemann

[Amanda Stair]

Because everyone wants to believe they have the power to save
somebody.

>
> Thirdly, the Knight Sabers were thinly written and out of character.
>
> Fourth, his writing skill is awful. In the action scenes, most of the
> sentences are: ________________ as ________________, making the
> already bad read even worse with this tiring, and long winded
> sentences. Over half or story is written like this. In a hectic scene,
> sentences are short, or if it's a long one, it's full of commas to
> create a fast, rhythmic pace.
>
> Fifth, his hard-suit is ridiculous, and don't let me start with the
> "weapons" who look like they came out of Darkwing Duck.
>
> There are probably more things I can mention, but I can't remember at
> this moment. The redeeming value I can find is that it doesn't beat
> the mother of all bad BGC self insertions - Hopelessly Lost. Zone has
> a plot, but HL is essentially about nothing. It's a plotless story.
> Two losers go to Mega Tokyo doing random things while going after
> their favorite KS and saving Irene - again! And, like him, they can't
> stop yapping about ridiculous hardware upgrades whiled adding annoying
> Iron Man references.
>
> I might give the story another chance and read it, and sorry about the
> Craig switch-up.

That's ok. I think it's happened before. Though if you don't like
SIs you may wanna stay away from Bubblegum Avatar, then ;)

As for my Yumeko stories, I started them when I was 15. At the time,
it was mostly just to see if I really could pull off writing a good
BGC story. And here I am, ten years later, still writing about her
adventures. Never thought I'd still be doing it, but it's a heck of a
lot of fun.

As for Silver Tears, that was a bit of an experiment, and certainly a
fun one. I do plan on doing another short story like that one soon,
set at the end of Blow Up.

Amanda

>
> ~ Alemann- Hide quoted text -

[Alemann]

In the real world sure, but her we're talking about fictional
characters not actual people worth saving.

> > Thirdly, the Knight Sabers were thinly written and out of character.
>
> > Fourth, his writing skill is awful. In the action scenes, most of the
> > sentences are: ________________ as ________________, making the
> > already bad read even worse with this tiring, and long winded
> > sentences. Over half or story is written like this. In a hectic scene,
> > sentences are short, or if it's a long one, it's full of commas to
> > create a fast, rhythmic pace.
>
> > Fifth, his hard-suit is ridiculous, and don't let me start with the
> > "weapons" who look like they came out of Darkwing Duck.
>
> > There are probably more things I can mention, but I can't remember at
> > this moment. The redeeming value I can find is that it doesn't beat
> > the mother of all bad BGC self insertions - Hopelessly Lost. Zone has
> > a plot, but HL is essentially about nothing. It's a plotless story.
> > Two losers go to Mega Tokyo doing random things while going after
> > their favorite KS and saving Irene - again! And, like him, they can't
> > stop yapping about ridiculous hardware upgrades whiled adding annoying
> > Iron Man references.
>
> > I might give the story another chance and read it, and sorry about the
> > Craig switch-up.
>
> That's ok.  I think it's happened before.  Though if you don't like
> SIs you may wanna stay away from Bubblegum Avatar, then ;)

Thanks for the tip. :)

> As for my Yumeko stories, I started them when I was 15.  At the time,
> it was mostly just to see if I really could pull off writing a good
> BGC story.  And here I am, ten years later, still writing about her
> adventures.  Never thought I'd still be doing it, but it's a heck of a
> lot of fun.

And it should. Keep going, girl! ;)

> As for Silver Tears, that was a bit of an experiment, and certainly a
> fun one.  I do plan on doing another short story like that one soon,
> set at the end of Blow Up.

You already told me that privately. ;)

Alemann

[antagonist]

Admittedly, most SI's should be steered WAY clear of, but it's the few
that actually are worth reading that make all the difference in my
book. I have to admit, I stayed away from Zone because it was an SI
fic, but at some point I just got curious. After that, I couldn't stop
reading. This is the fic that made it abundantly clear to me that some
SI's are worth reading, and to this day, it is one of the best ones
I've ever read, even though it has weak points. Then again, I paid for
books with a worse story that furthermore turned out to bore me to
tears.

There's nothing against saying you didn't like a certain genre or
story, or the way the author handles his sentences. It is wrong to
just go ahead and say "My point of view is the only true point of
view, and anyone else who disagrees is surely wrong, because I say it
sucks". This is the kind of attitude I semi-regularly go ballistic
about, even (or is that especially?) in real life.

Well...somehow, I feel better now. Whatever.

Who are you to judge about other people's lives you don't know squat
about? Has it even remotely ocurred to you that it all may have been a
plot point and mainly unrelated to RL? Usually, the kind of people you
think Bert belongs to write horrible, horrible Gary Stu's in order to
find some worth in their life. I admit I have never been in contact
with Bert directly, but this assumption of yours seems more than just
a little fishy.

People want to save those three because most of us have a hero
complex. We see them as damsels in distress, caught up in the
proverbial spider's web, so we imagine what it would be like to save
them. I'm especially partial towards saving Sylvie and Anri, because
they got dealt a particularly bad hand of cards they need to make the
best of. Lots of people forget or omit their circumstances turn Sylvie
into a murderer. What they see is a person in need of help. That's the
way Bert decided to handle it, and Craig even more so, judging by
Three Knights part 2.
I concur that tragedy is a vital plot point in the BGC OVA, leaving
its mark on the show's characters. What you don't seem to get is that
fanfics are just that: fan fiction written for the authors' enjoyment
because they liked the show overall but were disappointed with some of
its points. If they weren't, what point would there be in writing a
fic? Why do you believe they do it out of disrespect?

Hm, you say the KS are out of character. I admit my last time reading
BGZ was quite long ago, so I'm not sure what to make of it ATM. They
didn't seem terribly OOC to me back then, though. Also, there's
something called "artistic license". You might want to look it up
sometime.

Ah, so you have a degree in physics, yeah? I can tell you that while
some of his gadgets are a bit far-fetched, I've seen more handwavium
in worse fics. Also, you'd be surprised how many of his weapons
designs have a pretty solid foundation in modern science.

BTW, why do I have the feeling I'm just going through the motions of
an argument older than the internet?

[Alemann]

On 10 kol, 18:14, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> There's nothing against saying you didn't like a certain genre or
> story, or the way the author handles his sentences. It is wrong to
> just go ahead and say "My point of view is the only true point of
> view, and anyone else who disagrees is surely wrong, because I say it
> sucks".

When did I ever wrote that? Could you please provide me a quote? At
the end of the post I put that I'll give it a second chance and read
it again. My opinions are not etched in stone.

> Who are you to judge about other people's lives you don't know squat
> about? Has it even remotely ocurred to you that it all may have been a
> plot point and mainly unrelated to RL?

I'm sure he spelled out his autobiography. We won't ever really know.

> People want to save those three because most of us have a hero
> complex. We see them as damsels in distress, caught up in the
> proverbial spider's web, so we imagine what it would be like to save
> them. I'm especially partial towards saving Sylvie and Anri, because
> they got dealt a particularly bad hand of cards they need to make the
> best of. Lots of people forget or omit their circumstances turn Sylvie
> into a murderer. What they see is a person in need of help. That's the
> way Bert decided to handle it, and Craig even more so, judging by
> Three Knights part 2.

To me, they're crucial plot devices for Priss's and Linna's character
development.

> I concur that tragedy is a vital plot point in the BGC OVA, leaving
> its mark on the show's characters. What you don't seem to get is that
> fanfics are just that: fan fiction written for the authors' enjoyment
> because they liked the show overall but were disappointed with some of
> its points. If they weren't, what point would there be in writing a
> fic? Why do you believe they do it out of disrespect?

Not so much out of disrespect, but out of ignorance of what makes a
good plot. Nice, upstanding characters are dull, dysfunctional are
interesting. Why do you think people consider Moonlight Rambler and
Red Eyes BGC's highlights and Scoop Chase as it's worst? Obari, with
all the flaws put aside, almost made BGC a titillating SF thriller -
what it should have been.

> Hm, you say the KS are out of character. I admit my last time reading
> BGZ was quite long ago, so I'm not sure what to make of it ATM. They
> didn't seem terribly OOC to me back then, though. Also, there's
> something called "artistic license". You might want to look it up
> sometime.

Artistic license isn't an excuse for bad writing.

Alemann

[antagonist]

> Artistic license isn't an excuse for bad writing.

That's exactly the attitude I was talking about. Most of us here
really like the fic, we don't consider the writing to be bad. If you'd
said that you didn't like the writing, I wouldn't have said anything
about it. But you said the writing was bad, not stating it as your
opinion but as something you consider to be a fact. I have trouble
getting along with that attitude.

So we agree to disagree concerning Sylvie and Anri, huh? I can live
with that.

You could ask 100 people in the streets what they consider a good plot
to be made out of, and you'd get 100 different answers. What some
think of as a bad plot may be the holy grail to others. I'm saying
myself that Zone has a couple of scenes that made me go "WTF" or
"Mmmmk?", but overall it was very enjoyable for me to read.

Good/bad writing lies in the eyes of the beholder. Generalized
statements are generally inadvisable, IMHO.

BTW, reading through my post again, I realize it came off a bit
harsher than I intended it to. I was by no means trying to offend you
or anything. Sometimes I just go into writing binges...

[Jeanne Hedge]

I think Alemann the Opinionated, who seems to think hir opinion is a
fact of god, should share with us an example of hir writing talent.
It's easy to bitch about how bad things are if you've never given it a
try yourself

Jeanne Hedge

"You can only be young once. But you can always be immature."

-- Dave Barry

============
http://www.jhedge.com

[Amanda Stair]

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, yes I did, didn't I ;) Oh, and welcome back to a.f.bgc, Jeanne
^_^ Things seem to be kinda picking up here again for once.

Amanda

[Dartz]

The thing with the Zone mate, was that it took it's time about getting
better. It really only get's into it's stride when Skyknight starts
having problems because he's bent the technology curve so much,
because people start to go after him and so on. It 'grows the beard'
so to say.

I had a lot more typed out yeaterday to answer this topic.... but most
of this argument will be as old as fanfic. People like what they like.
Fair fucks to 'em. Some people are even able to like Twilight....

One thing I will agree with is that saving 'everyones' life, like
Irene, or Anri and Sylvie, and then getting a perfect happy ending
where everyone rides off into the sunset with no ill-effects is just
out of place with the genre. I've said it before in other places...
this is cyberpunk, it's not supposed to be so clean cut and nice at
the end. You might save the pretty protagonists life on your first
night, but she's horribly injured in the process. You don't win as
such, but you might "not lose".

[Rob Kelk]

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:13:50 -0700 (PDT), Amanda Stair
<ksyume...@aol.com> wrote:

<snip>

>Yes, yes I did, didn't I ;) Oh, and welcome back to a.f.bgc, Jeanne
>^_^ Things seem to be kinda picking up here again for once.

There's nothing like a "spirited discussion" to draw us lurkers out of
the woodwork... ^_^

--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"They were engaged in a calm and dignified discussion of important
issues of the day. No, wait, that was somebody else. *These* two
were all but screaming at each other at the tops of their lungs."
- from "Drunkard's Walk V/Oh My Brother II"

[Alemann]

On 11 kol, 04:25, Jeanne Hedge <jhe...@DEATHTOSPAMrcn.com> wrote:
>
> I think Alemann the Opinionated, who seems to think hir opinion is a
> fact of god, should share with us an example of hir writing talent.
> It's easy to bitch about how bad things are if you've never given it a
> try yourself
>
> Jeanne Hedge

I'm writing a BGC fan fiction (a short story or novelette, it depends
on the final word count), so, according to you, it gives me the right
to "bitch about". And so what if I actually never did try? Should I
understand it that as somebody who never attempted to write, I don't
know how hard it is to write serious stories, so it's understandable
that fans write in lesser fan fiction forms like self insertion,
parody, and crossover? In interpret that to you the explanation is
lack of writing talent; that's not polite.

Alemann

[Amanda Stair]

On Aug 11, 5:46 am, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:13:50 -0700 (PDT), Amanda Stair
>

Amen to that! I miss the discussions about Sylia's true nature and
whether the KS are kangaroos and all that. Those were the days :)

Amanda

[trbot...@aol.com]

> Amanda- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Actually, I think Priss is more of a wombat.....

Craig
(It's an obscure reference to the poster with the most post on the
classicbattletech.com forum -- Wombat, AKA, the blue one....)

[trbot...@aol.com]

SI isn't easy to write -- I know, I've done it. I can't speak for
Bert, but I try to balance things with my SI stories. MY SI character
isn't the best, he's no technical wizard, he isn't dating any of the
Sabers, and he nearly killed Irene while trying to save her. In short,
he isn't perfect.

On the other hand, Bert writes his way, I can't argue with that --
only I wish he'd write more! Amanda writes her own way, just as
everyone else who has written a story. Some people like certain styles
they read, and tend to emulate that style when they write their own
stories.

"Lesser fan fiction forms"? What are "Greater fan fiction forms"? Fan
fic writers don't get paid, the write for fun, so they tend to be a
bit freer with their storylines and characters. They want to write
stories that fit their image of the universe. Sometimes, they want to
rewrite events and take the timeline off in a different direction.
Some like the idea of being the hero and put themselves into the
story. They write dark stories, or light ones. It all reflects on the
writer's thoughts at the tiem.

Just look at the Ranma 1/2 fanfiction -- it runs the gambit from light
lemons to dark death stories and everything in between. Ranma's meat
the Senshi, dated same, and married several, depending on who's
writing. In other stories, Ranma's married to different R1/2 girls,
sometimes more than one. In some, Ranma makes the DBZ characters look
like whimps, in others, he's not even a martial artist. All these
stories are different, all with varying level of writing skills. There
are some very good fanfic authors out there would could make the
transition to professional author with little problem. Then there are
others you pray will give up any thoughts of writing because they are
so BAD at it.

Those are my thoughts on the subject....

Craig

[Rob Kelk]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:23:43 -0700 (PDT), Alemann
<zanzib...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> Should I
>understand it that as somebody who never attempted to write, I don't
>know how hard it is to write serious stories, so it's understandable
>that fans write in lesser fan fiction forms like self insertion,
>parody, and crossover?

Ah, there's the problem - you've got two axioms in that question that I
believe aren't accepted by the others taking part in this discussion.

First axiom: "Serious stories are more important than non-serious
stories." The world is not completely serious, so any work that ignores
humour - a "serious work" - is either unpolished or of journeyman
stature. More importantly to this conversation, BGC itself is not
completely serious; for one example, look at the training sequence in
OAV 4 and the scene immediately following it. (Even Sylia cracked a
smile in that scene.) Parody is, in my humble opinion, not less
important than drama; both can be and have been used to highlight facets
of the human condition.

Second axiom: "Stories that do not hold entirely to canon are
intrinsically of lesser quality than experimental stories." This, if
true, would mean that any story that takes inspiration from more than
one source is not a good story. However, Shakespeare wrote many plays
that take inspiration from more than one source, and those plays are
seen as some of the best in English theatre. And if it wasn't for
self-insertion, we wouldn't have the character of Sir Lancelot, one of
the most recognizable characters from the Arthurian mythos.
Self-insertions and crossovers are, IMHO, not of lesser quality simply
because they are self-insertions and crossovers.

Comedy, drama, setting and casting choices are tools in the writer's
toolbox. Which particular choices a writer makes is less important than
what the writer does with the choices...

[antagonist]

On 11 Aug., 23:07, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:23:43 -0700 (PDT), Alemann
>

My problem with his opinions is that he doesn't present them as
opinions that may or may not be wrong but as something he considers
fact, and so should damn well EVERYONE else (in his opinion). That's
what rubs me the wrong way here.

[tslu...@gmail.com]

All I asked for was info on any existing Sylvie/Anri yurifics, and I
get a reawakening of AFBGC instead. I don't know whether to be happy
or scared.

[Amanda Stair]

> or scared.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Proud. Be proud =D

Amanda

[antagonist]

> Amanda- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -

Also, you're allowed to be happy. Just a litle bit. :D

[Dartz]

Scared... very scared. The dead are Rising.

I'm not. I have the Zombie Survival Guide handy.

[Jeanne Hedge]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:46:02 GMT, rob...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk)
wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:13:50 -0700 (PDT), Amanda Stair
><ksyume...@aol.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>Yes, yes I did, didn't I ;) Oh, and welcome back to a.f.bgc, Jeanne
>>^_^ Things seem to be kinda picking up here again for once.
>
>There's nothing like a "spirited discussion" to draw us lurkers out of
>the woodwork... ^_^

Yeah. It's what we do.

[Alemann]

On 11 kol, 23:07, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
> Ah, there's the problem - you've got two axioms in that question that I
> believe aren't accepted by the others taking part in this discussion.
>
> First axiom: "Serious stories are more important than non-serious
> stories." The world is not completely serious, so any work that ignores
> humour - a "serious work" - is either unpolished or of journeyman
> stature.

By a serious story I meant a storyline that attempts to continue the
OVAs' story. Differently said, when I'm writing it, I asking myself
the question, "If I was the director of BGC 9 what would I do? How
would I do it?" Not seriousness as a style or setting, although a more
mature approach would be preferable. It definitely can't be a
comedy.

> More importantly to this conversation, BGC itself is not
> completely serious; for one example, look at the training sequence in
> OAV 4 and the scene immediately following it. (Even Sylia cracked a
> smile in that scene.)

That's one of the problems with BGC. It doesn't have a consistent
setting nor a style. You can't jump from Moonlight Rambler to Scoop
Chase; that's bad storytelling. And you didn't give a good example. A
story can be sober and still have humor, but that humor has to be
between characters like in the example you gave and not a goofball
scene amidst a storyline with different atmosphere.

> Parody is, in my humble opinion, not less
> important than drama; both can be and have been used to highlight facets
> of the human condition.

Of course. I'm not denying that. But what kind of facet it can be is
limited by the characters, story, and the your intent is a writer.
Concretely, BGC's universe and its characters can only be given
justice in a more sober and thrilleresque setting, in my opinion. If
all the OVAs were made à la Red Eyes, BGC would have been a much
better series (At least for my tastes, so I don't get roll called
again.)

> Second axiom: "Stories that do not hold entirely to canon are
> intrinsically of lesser quality than experimental stories." This, if
> true, would mean that any story that takes inspiration from more than
> one source is not a good story.

I don't know what you meant with this statements. I never said any of
this. What I did was voicing my dissatisfaction about the large lack
of OVA continuing fan fictions which I attribute to lack of will and
interest, and which baffles me in the same time, as BGC is an
incomplete series, so the fan should have that urge.

Alemann

[Andy Skuse]

LMAO!

Pops

[Alemann]

On 12 kol, 15:08, Andy Skuse <ask...@ody.ca> wrote:
> LMAO!
>
> Pops

Andy, it's nice you're still lurking. You remember you owe me a reply
since may, right?

Alemann

[Andy Skuse]

On Aug 8, 2:10 am, Alemann <zanzibar.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > This is slightly off topic, but when it comes to BGC, it has one of
> > > the worst fan-fiction communities. Barely anybody attempts to write in
> > > a serious way viz., continuing the official storyline. Most of the
> > > stories are just dumb crossovers, lemons, parodies, etc. In the
> > > Bubblegum Crisis Fan-fiction Guide, the least represented category is
> > > "ORIGINAL", which is sad considering that fans should've filled that
> > > gaping hole after Scoop Chase if they wanted that badly that the OVA
> > > ever gets completed.

That is *exactly* what motivated me to write BG Cross. What happens
next? That question was enough to get me started writing, but after
reading the AD Police Graphic Novel and inppchan's Mason/Largo Theory
I saw many of the bigger holes in the plot get filled in and I
realized how *really* well written the series was and how deep the sub-
plot went. But a few holes in the plot remained and those holes were
what I needed to give my fic something more. Sometimes I wish I hadn't
introduced a new character, so that my story would have been an
"Original" category fanfic, but 1) I wanted to challenge myself to
write an original character, 2) I wanted to continue the theme of v728
jumping from body-to-body to survive and I took Largo's fall from the
Genom tower to be that body's demise, 3) I wanted to honor the link
between BGC and Blade Runner and explore the "limited life-span"
angle, and 4) I wanted to explain v728's brief conversation with Mason
about Quincy's secret in the ADPGN , and all of that required another
"body". As the story stands, I'm 3 for 4. More below...

> One part of the fault carry the western fans. All senior posters,
> except Stainless Steel Rat, Dr. Raven, and Amanda, have fled this
> group like a rat pack. The fan pages, safe a few, are 404 for a long
> time. Everybody just lost interest.

I'm still here! I'm lurking more these days because I haven't seen any
new topics come up here lately. I will confess though, that my
interest in BGC has waned over the years because there hasn't been
much new happening, and other interests have asserted themselves. But
I haven't put BGC behind me either. It comes and goes now, and I find
it more rewarding to leave it for a while and then come back to it. I
recently watched the 2033 OVAs to help refresh my memory about some
parts that relate to my fic, and not only did it seem fresh and new
again, I saw a couple more little things I did not see in the past.
The 404 web page thing is a problem. It's like the slow-death of a
culture. A while back I went over my links page and found several 404
pages. Happily, I was able to save a few and archive them at Raven's
Garage. I'm starting to feel like a gamekeeper at a wildlife
refuge! :) Besides, somebody has to keep gas on hand for Priss's
bikes! :) More below...

> Skuse writes his Bubblegum Cross
> over a decade now. With all due respect to Skuse, he's a nice guy, but
> Cross is slowly becoming the Duke Nukem Forever of BGC literary works;
> it took Tolstoy less to finish War and Piece.

Heh! Funny, but depressingly true. There are 2 problems I am dealing
with though. Not an excuse, but like most fanfic authors who have been
writing for a while I don't have nearly as much time as I used to when
I started writing Cross. When I started it I was single, living in a
small apartment with minimal upkeep required, work was punch-in/punch-
out, BGC was still new and exciting to me, and there was a small but
excellent support group called the FFML to kick my ass along. I now
live with my girlfriend in a house that requires upkeep, I play in a
band that requires practice time (personal and with the band), work
sometimes comes home with me, BGC is no longer new, and the FFML
exploded in size and turned into a popularity contest instead of a
place to give and get help with your writing. Then there's the story
itself. Not only do I have the horrible habit of editing while I write
(it's only recently that I have re-learned the FIJW method of writing,
"Fuck It, Just Write", and made some real progress), I have also
fallen into a trap that many starting fanfic authors fall into. I have
bitten off more than I can chew. have created a complex plot and now I
am faced with wrapping up all the complexity in a way that doesn't
leave loose ends. I don't want it to end with little holes left open
like BGC did. I want it to provide real answers and closure, but it's
an impossible task. So I went over the latest chapters, killed off a
new character that was threatening to drag things out even further and
brought back an old character that likes to move things along,
stripped out some fluff, and cleaned up my outline. Now I just have to
keep telling myself, "FIJW" and see what I end up with :)

Pops

[Andy Skuse]

On Aug 11, 6:09 pm, "tsluf...@gmail.com" <tsluf...@gmail.com> wrote:

> All I asked for was info on any existing Sylvie/Anri yurifics, and I
> get a reawakening of AFBGC instead. I don't know whether to be happy
> or scared.

Pops high-fives tsluf273... then hands out a broom.

[Andy Skuse]

Indeed I do! And it shall be answered.

See my longer reply in this thread to understand why it has taken so
long :)

Pops

[tslu...@gmail.com]

Aww, why do I have to clean the garage?

[Andy Skuse]

When I gave you the broom were you still confused about whether to be
scared or happy?

Mission accomplished! ;)

Pops

[tslu...@gmail.com]

In that case, I choose happy. :)

...I'm still cleaning the garage, aren't I?

[Rob Kelk]

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:22:06 -0700 (PDT), Alemann
<zanzib...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11 kol, 23:07, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
>> Ah, there's the problem - you've got two axioms in that question that I
>> believe aren't accepted by the others taking part in this discussion.
>>
>> First axiom: "Serious stories are more important than non-serious
>> stories." The world is not completely serious, so any work that ignores
>> humour - a "serious work" - is either unpolished or of journeyman
>> stature.
>
>By a serious story I meant a storyline that attempts to continue the
>OVAs' story. Differently said, when I'm writing it, I asking myself
>the question, "If I was the director of BGC 9 what would I do? How
>would I do it?" Not seriousness as a style or setting, although a more
>mature approach would be preferable. It definitely can't be a
>comedy.

Ah. That's a "continuation".

And why can't it be a comedy? (Besides the dearth of cyberpunk comedies
out there, that is.)

>> More importantly to this conversation, BGC itself is not
>> completely serious; for one example, look at the training sequence in
>> OAV 4 and the scene immediately following it. (Even Sylia cracked a
>> smile in that scene.)
>
>That's one of the problems with BGC. It doesn't have a consistent
>setting nor a style. You can't jump from Moonlight Rambler to Scoop
>Chase; that's bad storytelling. And you didn't give a good example. A
>story can be sober and still have humor, but that humor has to be
>between characters like in the example you gave and not a goofball
>scene amidst a storyline with different atmosphere.

I look at Scoop Chase as a stress-relief episode between two
deathly-serious story arcs. (We do count "Crash" as canon, no?)

You can't keep people at a fever pitch all the time; trying only leads
to people becoming used to the pressure, so you have to apply even more
pressure as you go along. If you try, eventually you'll snap.

Letting people relax for a short while means you can slam on the usual
amount of pressure in the next arc and the audience will feel it even
more so. Everybody wins - the writer doesn't go nuts, and the audience
gets their adrenalene rush.

>> Parody is, in my humble opinion, not less
>> important than drama; both can be and have been used to highlight facets
>> of the human condition.
>
>Of course. I'm not denying that. But what kind of facet it can be is
>limited by the characters, story, and the your intent is a writer.
>Concretely, BGC's universe and its characters can only be given
>justice in a more sober and thrilleresque setting, in my opinion. If

>all the OVAs were made =E0 la Red Eyes, BGC would have been a much

>better series (At least for my tastes, so I don't get roll called
>again.)

While I thought that Red Eyes was one of the weaker episodes of the
series. If the series was made up of only one type of story, it wouldn't
have worked as well as it did, and it wouldn't be remembered even to the
extent it is now. (How many people still talk about "Ranma 1/2" or "Gall
Force"? The first was never serious, the second was never humourous. BGC
had both drama and humor, which makes it IMHO a superior work.)

>> Second axiom: "Stories that do not hold entirely to canon are
>> intrinsically of lesser quality than experimental stories." This, if
>> true, would mean that any story that takes inspiration from more than
>> one source is not a good story.
>
>I don't know what you meant with this statements. I never said any of
>this.

I never said you did - I said they were axioms, not quotes.

Your posts have been coloured by these ideas, even though you've never
come out and said them. You might not even have realized you've decided
to go by them until I pointed them out. (Axioms are tricky things that
way...)

> What I did was voicing my dissatisfaction about the large lack
>of OVA continuing fan fictions which I attribute to lack of will and
>interest, and which baffles me in the same time, as BGC is an
>incomplete series,

Ah - you don't think "Crash" is canon. That changes things a bit...

> so the fan should have that urge.

--

Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/

"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear
of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis

[Jeanne Hedge]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:59:18 GMT, rob...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk)
wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:22:06 -0700 (PDT), Alemann

><zanzib...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 11 kol, 23:07, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:

>>> More importantly to this conversation, BGC itself is not
>>> completely serious; for one example, look at the training sequence in
>>> OAV 4 and the scene immediately following it. (Even Sylia cracked a
>>> smile in that scene.)
>>
>>That's one of the problems with BGC. It doesn't have a consistent
>>setting nor a style. You can't jump from Moonlight Rambler to Scoop
>>Chase; that's bad storytelling.

Sure you can. Moonlight Rambler/Red Eyes and Scoop Chase take place
months apart, with Double Vision between. I'd expect Moonlight
Rambler and Red Eyes to be fairly consistent with each other because
they're the only stories that take place within the same short
timeframe, and they are. I don't expect anything else to be
consistent with them because of the time lapse, and they aren't.

BGC takes place over a span of 2 years. However much one might wish
for consistency, it's not realistic (or as realistic as an anime can
get) for things to stay exactly the same over that amount of time.

>>And you didn't give a good example. A
>>story can be sober and still have humor, but that humor has to be
>>between characters like in the example you gave and not a goofball
>>scene amidst a storyline with different atmosphere.
>
>I look at Scoop Chase as a stress-relief episode between two
>deathly-serious story arcs. (We do count "Crash" as canon, no?)
>
>You can't keep people at a fever pitch all the time; trying only leads
>to people becoming used to the pressure, so you have to apply even more
>pressure as you go along. If you try, eventually you'll snap.
>
>Letting people relax for a short while means you can slam on the usual
>amount of pressure in the next arc and the audience will feel it even
>more so. Everybody wins - the writer doesn't go nuts, and the audience
>gets their adrenalene rush.

Besides, Scoop Chase is the mid-series comic relief episode. It
wasn't supposed to be the finale, it just turned out that way.

[Alemann]

On Aug 14, 1:59 am, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
> And why can't it be a comedy? (Besides the dearth of cyberpunk comedies
> out there, that is.)

Because it isn't supposed to be a comedy. It's a cyberpunk thriller.
If you think it could be a comedy, then write a story called e.g.
"Knight Sabers' Wacky Mega Tokyo Antics" where they combat boomers
with water guns, Sylia wears a clown nose, and Linna goes "Hu-Yuck!"
every ten seconds. Leslie Nielsen as Dr. Raven, of course.

> I look at Scoop Chase as a stress-relief episode between two
> deathly-serious story arcs. (We do count "Crash" as canon, no?)

No. It's official canon, but I reject it. And Crash deathly serious?
Sure, if you count Saturday morning cartoons as deathly serious.

> You can't keep people at a fever pitch all the time; trying only leads
> to people becoming used to the pressure, so you have to apply even more
> pressure as you go along. If you try, eventually you'll snap.
>
> Letting people relax for a short while means you can slam on the usual
> amount of pressure in the next arc and the audience will feel it even
> more so. Everybody wins - the writer doesn't go nuts, and the audience
> gets their adrenalene rush.

You're confusing plot pacing with setting. A story can have a sober
setting, and still give the audience a break.

> While I thought that Red Eyes was one of the weaker episodes of the
> series. If the series was made up of only one type of story, it wouldn't
> have worked as well as it did, and it wouldn't be remembered even to the
> extent it is now.

> (How many people still talk about "Ranma 1/2" or "Gall Force"?
> The first was never serious, the second was never humourous. BGC
> had both drama and humor, which makes it IMHO a superior work.)

Reasons for a series' longevity doesn't have anything to do with a
certain mixture of drama and humor. It can be polarized, but the
crucial thing is the way of presentation and originality that gets
branded in audience's mind. I haven't watched Gall Force, but from
those several episodes of Ranma 1/2 I watched, the story is bland and
the humor easily forgettable. It doesn't leave an imprint. And how
many people talk about BGC today? Definitely a great show, but it's
uncompletion and constant change in style and setting did hamper it's
popularity.

Alemann

[Alemann]

On Aug 14, 4:12 am, Jeanne Hedge <jhe...@DEATHTOSPAMrcn.com> wrote:
> Sure you can.   Moonlight Rambler/Red Eyes and Scoop Chase take place
> months apart, with Double Vision between.  I'd expect Moonlight
> Rambler and Red Eyes to be fairly consistent with each other because
> they're the only stories that take place within the same short
> timeframe, and they are.  I don't expect anything else to be
> consistent with them because of the time lapse, and they aren't.
>
> BGC takes place over a span of 2 years. However much one might wish
> for consistency, it's not realistic (or as realistic as an anime can
> get) for things to stay exactly the same over that amount of time.

Jeanne, when you write a story, it has a head and a tail. You choose
the style, setting, milieu, and theme. An when you do it, you stick
with it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the story's internal
chronology. The story can happen in the range of two days, two weeks,
two months, or two years. But when you read it, you expect that the
writer had made a coherent whole out of all elements he put in. The
time span of the story has nothing to do with it, but the writer's
skill.

Alemann

[Alemann]

I've read it, and a reply is on the way.

Alemann

[Amanda Stair]

On Aug 14, 1:54 am, Alemann <zanzibar.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 1:59 am, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
>
> > And why can't it be a comedy? (Besides the dearth of cyberpunk comedies
> > out there, that is.)
>
> Because it isn't supposed to be a comedy. It's a cyberpunk thriller.
> If you think it could be a comedy, then write a story called e.g.
> "Knight Sabers' Wacky Mega Tokyo Antics" where they combat boomers
> with water guns, Sylia wears a clown nose, and Linna goes "Hu-Yuck!"
> every ten seconds. Leslie Nielsen as Dr. Raven, of course.
>
> > I look at Scoop Chase as a stress-relief episode between two
> > deathly-serious story arcs. (We do count "Crash" as canon, no?)
>
> No. It's official canon, but I reject it. And Crash deathly serious?
> Sure, if you count Saturday morning cartoons as deathly serious.

I think I know the point you're trying to make, but...Saturday morning
cartoons can't be deadly serious? Go watch some eps of Batman The
Animated Series and get back to me.

Amanda

[Alemann]

You took my simile a little be too literally. ;)

Alemann

[Amanda Stair]

> Alemann- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I tend to do that, but MY point is Saturday morning cartoons are not
all created equal, by far. May not be the best thing to compare Crash
to, even with all its faults.

Amanda

[Alemann]

Alright. Then Crash is "Sailor Moon meets cyberpunk".

Alemann

[antagonist]

> Alemann- Zitierten Text ausblenden -

>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -

KS hardsuits aren't nearly skimpy enough for that to be true, unless
you were talking about the later 2040 ones?

[Jeanne Hedge]

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Alemann
<zanzib...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

We're going to have to agree to disagree, because I could not disagree
with you more.

[Alemann]

On 15 kol, 20:43, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
> KS hardsuits aren't nearly skimpy enough for that to be true, unless
> you were talking about the later 2040 ones?

While in the BGC the sentai element was only mildly present and,
thankfully, chocked by other elements, in Crash, the Knight Sabers are
Sailor Soldiers in metal armor. It's not the skimpy clothes but the
overall feel of the show.

Alemann

PS.

Sprichst du Deutsch?

[Alemann]

On 16 kol, 02:28, Jeanne Hedge <jhe...@DEATHTOSPAMrcn.com> wrote:
> We're going to have to agree to disagree, because I could not disagree
> with you more.
>
> Jeanne Hedge

Well, if we agreed in everything there could be ever an agreement, we
wouldn't be able to talk to each other very much.

Alemann

[antagonist]

Maybe...haven't watched Crash in a LOOONG time. To me, It Just Didn't
Happen.

PS: Japp, bin schließlich Deutscher.

[Alemann]

On Aug 16, 6:45 pm, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Maybe...haven't watched Crash in a LOOONG time. To me, It Just Didn't
> Happen.

Neither to me. ;)

> PS: Japp, bin schließlich Deutscher.

Nah endlich mal dass ich auf einen deutschen BGC Fan begegne! Das
erste Mal das ich Bubblegum Crisis überhaupt gesehen habe war auf dem
VOX Kanal. Ich bin kein Deutscher, aber meine ganze anime Karriere
fing auf diesen Sender an. Sie zeigten erstmal nur Rote Augen, aber
später nach, ausstrahlten sie die übrigen Episoden.

Alemann

[antagonist]

Ich hatte zwar gehört, dass es wohl irgendwann mal auf einem deutschen
Sender ausgestrahlt worden sein soll, hielt das bis eben für eine
urbane Legende...ich konnte nie eine Quelle außer Hörensagen dafür
finden. VOX hatte mal semi-regelmäßig Anime-Programme. Jin-Roh habe
ich zum Beispiel irgendwann zwischen den Jahren mal auf dem Sender
gesehen. Inzwischen läuft auf dem Sender aber gar nichts mehr in der
Richtung, soweit ich weiß.

Weil ich BGC selber absolut klasse finde, habe ich mir irgendwann dann
das DVD-Set gekauft.

Wo kommst du her? Dein Deutsch ist nebenbei ganz passabel dafür, dass
es nicht deine Muttersprache ist.

Anta

[Alemann]

On Aug 16, 11:23 pm, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
> On 16 Aug., 22:40, Alemann <zanzibar.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 16, 6:45 pm, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > Maybe...haven't watched Crash in a LOOONG time. To me, It Just Didn't
> > > Happen.
>
> > Neither to me. ;)
>
> > > PS: Japp, bin schließlich Deutscher.
>
> > Nah endlich mal dass ich auf einen deutschen BGC Fan begegne! Das
> > erste Mal das ich Bubblegum Crisis überhaupt gesehen habe war auf dem
> > VOX Kanal. Ich bin kein Deutscher, aber meine ganze anime Karriere
> > fing auf diesen Sender an. Sie zeigten erstmal nur Rote Augen, aber
> > später nach, ausstrahlten sie die übrigen Episoden.
>
> > Alemann
>
> Ich hatte zwar gehört, dass es wohl irgendwann mal auf einem deutschen
> Sender ausgestrahlt worden sein soll, hielt das bis eben für eine
> urbane Legende...ich konnte nie eine Quelle außer Hörensagen dafür
> finden.

Wen Rote Augen auf dem Sender war, war ich noch klein und wusste
überhaupt nicht was japanische Animation ist, und zufällig stieß ich
spät in der Nacht auf diesen Zeichentrick. Niemals im meinem Leben sah
ich etwas ähnlich. Später war ich älter und kluger und habe die
späteren Episoden auf Videokassetten gespeichert. Ach, das waren noch
Tagen! :)

> VOX hatte mal semi-regelmäßig Anime-Programme. Jin-Roh habe
> ich zum Beispiel irgendwann zwischen den Jahren mal auf dem Sender
> gesehen.

Korrekt. Jin-Roh war auf VOX. Ich habe es auch gesehen.

> Inzwischen läuft auf dem Sender aber gar nichts mehr in der
> Richtung, soweit ich weiß.

Ja, leider.

> Weil ich BGC selber absolut klasse finde, habe ich mir irgendwann dann
> das DVD-Set gekauft.

Welches Set? Von ACOG oder Animeigo?

> Wo kommst du her? Dein Deutsch ist nebenbei ganz passabel dafür, dass
> es nicht deine Muttersprache ist.

Ich komme as Kroatien.

Alemann

[antagonist]

Ich habe das Animeigo-Set. Ist glaube ich das neueste?

Hehe, '87 war ich gerade mal zwei Jahre alt. Ich war in der Hinsicht
ein "Spätzünder", meinen ersten Anime, von dem ich wusste, dass es
einer war, habe ich irgendwann Ende der 90er gesehen. Davor natürlich
Serien wie Saber Rider usw, aber dass die eigentlich Anime waren,
wuste ich damals noch nicht.

Anta

[trbot...@aol.com]

On Aug 17, 1:23�pm, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Ich habe das Animeigo-Set. Ist glaube ich das neueste?
>
> Hehe, '87 war ich gerade mal zwei Jahre alt. Ich war in der Hinsicht

> ein "Sp�tz�nder", meinen ersten Anime, von dem ich wusste, dass es
> einer war, habe ich irgendwann Ende der 90er gesehen. Davor nat�rlich

> Serien wie Saber Rider usw, aber dass die eigentlich Anime waren,
> wuste ich damals noch nicht.
>
> Anta

I don't need to be rude guys, but most of us can't speak German, so we
have no idea what you're talking about....

Craig

[antagonist]

Right. We were just reminiscing about our earliest exposures to
anime. :P

We'll stop now...I hope :D

(When did we get that offtopic, BTW? I mean, we've skirted about every
topic imaginable in a thread made for digging out old yuri fics... )

[Dartz]

It's world domination. It's always world domination.

-Dartz

[Alemann]

On 17 kol, 21:22, antagonist <antagonis...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Right. We were just reminiscing about our earliest exposures to
> anime. :P
>
> We'll stop now...I hope :D

Ja, wir sollten mal aufhören. :D

Alemann