linda Allen
new kid on the block
curious for a while, what ever happened to linda allen
Dunbar
> well im new around here, been a fan since the eighties, and have been
> curious for a while, what ever happened to linda allen
Apparently they were an 'item' well into the early to mid nineties. I
never saw any press about her after the 70's but maybe I missed
something. Now I think she lives in Washington state and is married.
I'm thinking she is a realtor- According to Barry they're still
close, but I wonder about that- living in Washington with a husband
wouldn't make her 'open' to being 'close' to Barry, though anything is
possible.
Faithful fan
> well im new around here, been a fan since the eighties, and have been
> curious for a while, what ever happened to linda allen
Saw her sitting next to Barry along with Suzanne Sommers on Manilow TV
this month. It was at the Ella Awards in April of 2003. But I could be
wrong.
Patricia
Barry had met Linda Allen many years previous, when he was working as
musical director for Callback! at CBS, and Linda was working as
production assistant for the same show. Though frequently identified
as Barry’s romantic interest (“Linda was very enamored in the
beginning,” says Jeanne Lucas), in truth the two had developed a
trusting, platonic friendship over the years, often living together.
According to friends, the arrangement provided not only stability and
companionship for Barry, but also a convenient cover story for those
who would insist on questioning his sexual orientation. “I do know
she’s been his beard,” says Lucas. “I wanted to throw up every time
some article came out saying, ‘My lady, Linda.’ What the hell are you
talking about?”
“Linda was a good friend who I think was supportive in the extreme,
who didn’t want anything in terms of his work,” says Lee Gurst. “Linda
didn’t want to go on the road, Linda didn’t want to be a musician or a
writer or be in the spotlight. You know, she was just there to be
supportive and not looking to get anything in terms of a career. She
had her own work and she did very well with that. She was occasionally
around on the road, though not very often. You know, a big concert, a
special event, something like that. Nice, bright lady.” Ron Dante
concurs. “They were really close. She was a hoot. A very funny lady, a
pleasure to be around. One of those people you meet when you go,
‘Loved her, hated him.’ You loved her. She was one of those girls. I
thought she was the best thing for Barry. Great sense of humor, very
comical, very sensitive to him. He adored her.”
Nash's Gramma
Dunbar, that's the biggest pile of subjective conjecture I've read in
a long time. And isn't it funny that a totally new poster comes along
with a question that seems designed just to draw La Butler back out of
the swamp?
CA Sharon
Brenda M
>
> Dunbar, that's the biggest pile of subjective conjecture I've read in
> with a question that seems designed just to draw La Butler back out of
> the swamp?
I find it entirely believable.
But I, too, find it interesting when someone unknown posts a question
and then suddenly, as if by magic, the Butler appears to answer it.
Brenda
Jane
Yes, Linda was sitting with Barry at the head table at his Ella Awards
show. I had a chance to speak with her after the program for a few
minutes. Very nice lady.
Jane
Patricia
Lord, but you people are paranoid. I don't post here under any name
but my own (something Brenda can't honestly claim). And, if I wanted
to post abuot something no one was talking about, I wouldn't need to
send in a shill to open the door for me -- I'm perfectly capable of
starting a new topic all by myself. I receive all these posts via
email in digest form. There have been other things I would have
responded to in the past couple of months, but today was the first day
I saw something I felt like responding to at a time when I actually
had the time to do so. Get a grip, people. Not everything is a
conspiracy.
Brenda M
Patricia wrote:
>
> Lord, but you people are paranoid. I don't post here under any name
> but my own (something Brenda can't honestly claim).
You're right. You got me.
I also post under the name "Garry Kief."
How delightful - you're still an idiot. Makes anybody wonder how
factual your books really are.
Brenda
Patricia
Remembering when you accidentally answered one of your own posts,
forgetting that you had forgotten to change your screen name, doesn't
make me an idiot. And you being pissed off that I remembered when
that happened here doesn't mean that "anybody" wonders about the facts
presented (and thoroughly vetted by editors and lawyers) in my books.
Both of those things just mean that you can't escape your past, so you
should just learn to laugh about it rather than spitting like a caught
cat whenever someone brings it up.
Brenda M
Patricia wrote:
>
> Remembering when you accidentally answered one of your own posts,
> forgetting that you had forgotten to change your screen name, doesn't
> make me an idiot.
Kindly enlighten me as to who my other identity is.
Really...
I'm dying to know.
I know you've accused various posters-- who also pissed you off-- of
being me over the years...and you were always wrong, because I post
under one name. My own. That's it.
so you
> should just learn to laugh about it rather than spitting like a caught
> cat whenever someone brings it up.
I don't spit like a cat. I just laugh like hell when you post this
shit because, like always, you don't know what you're talking about.
Fortunately, pretty much everybody here knows that.
Brenda M
I receive all these posts via
> email in digest form.
By the way ... if you're reading all these posts by digest, I wonder
at the lightning fast speed with which you're answering a post I wrote
within the last few hours. The digests I subscribe to only arrive in
my mail once a day, if I'm lucky.
Wanna re-think your story? Or are you so narcissistic you immediately
dump your digest and monitor the website, waiting breathlessly for me
to respond to you?
Brenda
jtmtj
> Patricia wrote:
>
> > Remembering when you accidentally answered one of your own posts,
> > forgetting that you had forgotten to change your screen name, doesn't
> > make me an idiot.
>
> Kindly enlighten me as to who my other identity is.
>
> Really...
> I'm dying to know.
Shouldn't a medical professional be doing that?
John
Brenda M
>
> Shouldn't a medical professional be doing that?
>
> John
LOL ... One would think!
But Patsy has the answer and, dammit, she's not telling me.
Or me.
Inconsiderate bitch.
(Hey! That's what I said!!!)
Brenda
Dunbar
Possibly more factual than anyone would want to believe.
Dunbar
> well im new around here, been a fan since the eighties, and have been
> curious for a while, what ever happened to linda allen
Anyone have a current photo of Linda they'd care to post? I remember
the last current photo I saw of her she was wearing a very white, very
Cali outfit!
Patricia
Brenda, please remember that this all started with you accusing me of
posing as someone else in order to bring up the topic of Linda Allen.
And you don't just post under your own name, and I'm not the only one
here how knows that. You've been caught out more than once over the
years; I know there are still people here who remember that.
Patricia
Interesting how similar that wording is to this messages posted by
"Big City Blues" (ahem!) several years ago:
Big City Blues View profile
More options Jan 27 2002, 9:58 pm
Newsgroups: alt.fan.barry-manilow
From: bigcitybl...@aol.com (Big City Blues)
Date: 28 Jan 2002 02:58:05 GMT
Local: Sun, Jan 27 2002 9:58 pm
Subject: Re: P. Butler, What is the deal?
ROTFLMAO!!!!! I almost pissed in my pants. Thanks for the laugh Patsy.
I sure
needed it.
Patricia
Yes, Brenda, that must be it. Just like Barry Manilow and Garry Kief,
I do nothing all day and all night but think about you and wonder how
we can shape our lives and our careers to best suit you. You're just
THAT important. Honestly.
Patricia
Thank you, Dunbar. Always nice to be reminded that there are still
some reasonable people here who don't follow the herd.
Brenda M
>
> Brenda, please remember that this all started with you accusing me of
> posing as someone else in order to bring up the topic of Linda Allen.
> And you don't just post under your own name, and I'm not the only one
> here how knows that. You've been caught out more than once over the
Patricia, it pains me to tell you this (okay, now I'm lying, it
doesn't pain me at all), but you're WRONG.
I think maybe you're off your meds.
And if "people here remember that," then maybe they are too. :-)
Brenda
Brenda M
>
> Interesting how similar that wording is to this messages posted by
> "Big City Blues" (ahem!) several years ago:
>
> Big City Blues View profile
> More options Jan 27 2002, 9:58 pm
>
> Newsgroups: alt.fan.barry-manilow
> From: bigcitybl...@aol.com (Big City Blues)
> Date: 28 Jan 2002 02:58:05 GMT
> Local: Sun, Jan 27 2002 9:58 pm
> Subject: Re: P. Butler, What is the deal?
>
> ROTFLMAO!!!!! I almost pissed in my pants. Thanks for the laugh Patsy.
> I sure
>
> - Show quoted text -
Uh ... nope. Not me.
Sorry. You're still an idiot.
Brenda
Brenda M
Nice way to circumvent my point, which was that you there is no
fucking way you only read these posts on digest if you're responding
to them that quickly.
Geez ... do you EVER tell the truth?
Brenda
Brenda M
> Brenda, please remember that this all started with you accusing me of
> posing as someone else in order to bring up the topic of Linda Allen.
By the way, Miss Reading Comprehension, go back and read what I
posted. I did not ACCUSE you of anything. I SUGGESTED that there
seems to be a direct correlation between unknowns posting questions
about Manilow and you popping out of the woodwork to answer them.
That could mean several possibilities.
That you're fixating on this one kinda says it all.
Brenda
P.S. Damn these summer re-runs. The programming never changes on
your channel, Pat. Time to find the remote.
Nash's Gramma
You know what's really funny, Brenda. I made the comment first, and
yet Ms Butler ignored me to fixate on you. I'd laugh if it wasn't so
obvious what her motivations were.
CA Sharon
Nash's Gramma
>
> - Show quoted text -
The only similiarity in those two posts is the use of the word Patsy.
Unless you're reading something that isn't visible to the naked eye.
Which is always a possibility.
CA Sharon
Dunbar
I did read your book and found it to be fair and an honest account.
More of an honest account than most here would like to admit.
Sometimes the folks here more closely mirror the MMN than they like to
admit. Or will admit.
It was written from a distant point of view which all biographies
should be written as. Barry's 'own' autobiography was very sugar
coated and very antiseptic. I want to know the REAL man warts,
dysfunctions and all. Despite what some of the rose colored glasses
gang has said over the years about it, I thought it to be very good
with great photos, many I had not ever seen. It wasn't demeaning or
embarrassing. It was just honest fact/story gathering from those who
knew Barry the best.
Patricia
>
Sharon:
I'm sorry you felt slighted. My post actually started "Lord, but you
people are paranoid." I'm sorry that I didn't go on to say, "By 'you
people' I mean 1. Sharon, 2. Brenda, 3. etc., etc...." Instead I
replied to the second such message, which happened to be Brenda's. I
hope you feel better now.
Patricia
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks, Dunbar. I appreciate both the compliments and the objectivity.
Patricia
>
> - Show quoted text -
Brenda:
I said that I receive these posts via digest, which I review to see if
there's anything of interest. If there is, and I have the time, I
might respond. I never said that the only way I access this board is
via digest.
Patricia
You're right, Brenda, some things never change. You always start
calling names and making accusations whenever anyone challenges you in
any way or -- worst of all -- remembers stupid and/or dishonest things
you've posted here. People here may come and go, and sometimes even
come back again. But the one constant is you, being here, pretending
that you matter to Barry Manilow, and making it clear that the only
thing you have in your life is this board and the gossamer thin
connection you think you've forged for yourself with Manilow via your
obsessive behavior. What a lovely niche you've carved for yourself
here. It should make for a magnificent legacy. That is, until
technology changes again and all trace of you is wiped out for good.
But, hey -- well done you!
Brenda M
Patricia wrote:
It should make for a magnificent legacy. That is, until
> technology changes again and all trace of you is wiped out for good.
> But, hey -- well done you!
That's my legacy?
Nope.
Wrong again.
But enough about me. Let's discuss yours.
You're still a pompous, self-righteous, insignificant would-be
biographer (of what now - two people?) who can't feel good about
herself unless she's putting down anybody who won't pander to her self-
proclaimed, delusional sense of genius.
No wonder Manilow and his current friends and family wanted nothing to
do with you or your book...which is entirely based on third-party
accounts from people who knew him decades ago (or at least thought
they did). As a decent writer, you know that these limited insights
only enabled you to paint half a picture for your readers, and it
still bugs you. I remember how frustrated you were when nobody from
Barry's camp would even talk to you. A lot of folks here don't
remember your posts from AOL, and the emails you sent all of us
badgering us for information on Barry's life, and for information on
how to reach Barry's people. You were desperate for more than you got
because you knew what you had would never give you a Kitty Kelley
bestseller. (And, being somewhat intelligent, you figured right).
And you never forgave Barry's fans for not helping you penetrate his
fortress of privacy.
So you wrote that chapter about Barry's fans out of spite, borrowing
almost all of your material from "Starlust." Besides, you needed to
flesh out what you had written about Barry's life because you wouldn't
have reached your word count otherwise.
That's YOUR legacy.
Feel good?
We done now?
Me... Almost.
One more.
Why not tell Sharon the truth - you did not miss her post. You
continue to be obsessed with locking horns with me, above all other
fans who fail to bow at your altar, because I know more of your
pathetic history than others do. I represent all those fans who
wouldn't help you write a better book. Consequently, I know how to
push your buttons. And, as flattering as that may be...I'm bored with
you now.
You used to be fun to spar with, but you've lost your edge.
I am seeing Barry on Saturday. His music makes me happy. And other
people who love his music like I do make me happy. I enjoy exchanging
thoughts and insights with them, and I love to laugh with them. Why?
Because, contrary to that shitty chapter in your book portraying
Barry's fans as raving, star-lusting lunatics, most of his fans are
fun, intelligent, decent and good people with full lives. And it's a
blessing so many of us found one another over the years. Why didn't
you focus on that? Because you didn't want to see our glass as half-
full -- ever. Ugly can't bear the sight of anything beautiful.
So that's why I'm here. But understand one thing, Patricia: Nobody
here owes you, or the likes of you, an explanation of why they enjoy
hanging out here, because why YOU continue to hang out here isn't even
based on happiness, joy, or any other positive emotion.
Happiness... It's a feeling you apparently know nothing about, you
humorless, self-loathing, miserable excuse for a human being.
Come back in another couple of months when some other mystery poster
comes along and asks a question that justifies your existence. Come
back when you need to lash out at someone in order to feel good. It's
apparently all you've got.
Until then, why don't you .. In the words of Chef Ramsay... "Piss
off."
Brenda
P.S. Barry has a wonderful new CD out called "15 Minites." You might
want to check it out. And then, when you do, maybe you can come here
and discuss something artistic and meaningful along with the rest of
us.
Try it. It might sop up some of that acid dripping from your keyboard.
Who knows? It could even make you happy.
Maybe.
Maria Mikol
> I did read your book and found it to be fair and an honest account.
> More of an honest account than most here would like to admit.
> Sometimes the folks here more closely mirror the MMN than they like to
> admit. Or will admit.
>
> It was written from a distant point of view which all biographies
> should be written as. Barry's 'own' autobiography was very sugar
> coated and very antiseptic. I want to know the REAL man warts,
> dysfunctions and all. Despite what some of the rose colored glasses
> gang has said over the years about it, I thought it to be very good
> with great photos, many I had not ever seen. It wasn't demeaning or
> embarrassing. It was just honest fact/story gathering from those who
> knew Barry the best.
I read the book as well and I agree with you Dunbar. I may not have a
few years ago. But the reality is, the book was honest.
Maria
dcsharon
>
> I read the book as well and I agree with you Dunbar. I may not have a
> few years ago. But the reality is, the book was honest.
> Maria
I was "gifted" the book from a friend in the UK as I wasn't going to
spend my hard earned cash on it, that's for sure.
It was okay ... not great. Photos were good. There were no direct
quotes from Barry or his inner circle. Just from people he worked with
30 years ago - some who may have left Camp Manilow under not so
pleasant circumstances.
I have remained in contact with several people who worked with Barry
in the 1980's. They have never, ever, EVER uttered a cross word about
Barry. Butler didn't even approach them as it wouldn't have played
into her bitter superstar/miserable life agenda.
The chapter taken from "starlust" was, in a word ... crap. I don't
know of a SINGLE fan who has "tea with Bazza" every morning and talks
to their cardboard cutout daily. There's a few I might suspect do it
-- but it's not anyone that I know personally.
Butler just wanted to paint as horrible a photo of "fans" as they
wouldn't help her. Don't find the fans who donated $5000 (or whatever
the amount was ) to sponsor a litter of seeing eye dogs for the blind
- all named with Manilow references, Or the ones who have donated
countless hours to doing charity work in Barry's name. For the most
part, I would say that Maniow fans can be the most giving of any
people I've ever met. You wouldn't know it from what Butler wrote.
Her dislike of fans was evident. I know there have been countless
other projects we've been involved with over these 20+ years. There's
no telling how much money has been donated in Barry's name thru his
fans charity efforts, but I'm sure it's a hefty sum.
But I must wonder .. she's written the book ... it's done (and it was
probably at least 10 years ago --). There's no market for it -- as
Manilow is a yawn when it comes to tabloid sensationalism. His
private life is not "breaking headline news". If he beat up cats and
said his next concert was going to be on the exhiled planet Pluto -
okay. Maybe you might garner some interest from the National
Enquirer. Otherwise? Nope.
So ... why keep coming back here?
(DC) Sharon
Dunbar
People have as much right to come here as you or anyone else does.
Brenda M
Sharon didn't say she couldn't come here.
She asked WHY she keeps coming here. Big difference.
You're here because you're a fan.
I'm here because I'm a fan.
Sharon's here because she's a fan.
So why is Butler here?'
She's not a fan.
And she doesn't have the slightest interest in anything Manilow is
even doing right now. (I wonder if she even knows he has a new CD
out).
She's here to promote a dead book. No other reason.
I honestly don't care if you like her book. I, like Sharon, thought
the photos were good, but I thought the structure was mediocre and the
substance left a lot to be desired (again, because she tried - and
failed - to garner interviews with people who were still relevant in
Barry's life). She gave you all that twaddle about how good "distance"
is when writing a bio? What a load of crap. She would have traded
that previous "distance" in for a chance to talk to Barry, Marc,
Garry, Suzanne, or anyone on his current payroll ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
She's just trying to put a positive spin on her professional failure,
and is delighted when any fan falls for it.
You have every right to think of her book as you choose.
Just like I have every right to think of HER as I choose.
Brenda
Dunbar
While others may argue that no one 'current' wanted anything to do
with the book- the only current people I can think of are Garry, the
backup singers, Suzanne Somers, Lorna Luft- of course they wouldn't
stray outside the circle to say ANYTHING. Patricia went to people
whom Barry started his career with- Jeanne Lucas, etc., to garner
info. If anyone says Jeanne Lucas 'didn't know him that well' they're
crazy in the head. Doesn't matter if the people knew him from years
back; the story was about how he got started so going 'back' would
make sense.
Most people won't discuss Manilow who have been in his world. He must
have a VERY tight payoff system much like Oprah. Apparently some
weren't in on the 'tight circle' and they were willing to talk.
Brenda M
> While others may argue that no one 'current' wanted anything to do
> with the book- the only current people I can think of are Garry, the
> backup singers, Suzanne Somers, Lorna Luft- of course they wouldn't
> stray outside the circle to say ANYTHING.
There are LOADS of other people she could have contacted - just people
who aren't as well known as the ones you mentioned. She couldn't get
ANY of them, because they were well acquainted enough with Barry to
know he wasn't endorsing the project. I applaud their loyalty.
Tell me - if you were in his inner circle - and Butler had approached
you - would YOU have flapped your gums like Lee Gurst did? I'm
guessing not.
Patricia went to people
> whom Barry started his career with- Jeanne Lucas, etc., to garner
> info.
By default, not by choice. It was all she could get. I'm not saying
she wouldn't have interviewed these people if she HAD gotten to more
recent associates, but they undoubtedly would have played a more minor
role.
If anyone says Jeanne Lucas 'didn't know him that well' they're
> crazy in the head.
I know I never said that. She seemingly knew him well .... at that
time...which was DECADES ago.
Think about it - if you were applying for a job, and you gave a
prospective employer references of people who knew you from 20 or 30
years ago, the interviewer would likely scratch his or her head and
say, "Why don't you have anybody who's known you more recently?" The
reason an employer would want that is because a) time has a way of
warping the way facts are recalled inside somebody's aging head, and
b) nobody cares who you were then or what you did then as much as who
you've become and what you're doing NOW. Patricia knew this, which is
why she tried so hard to get to the right people. And she DID try.
Part of me admires her gumption for at least having given it her best
shot. But ... she couldn't. So she settled. Frankly, what else
could she have done?
The material Lucas and Gurst and the others provided would have been
more interesting if it had been included in a context that compared
their memories of Barry with viewpoints from people who've more
recently known and worked with Barry in the last 10 or 15 years. The
comparison between the young, inexperienced Barry and the older, more
mature Barry would have made for a fascinating read. But Patricia
didn't have that luxury.
Doesn't matter if the people knew him from years
> back; the story was about how he got started so going 'back' would
> make sense.
No, the story was a biography. It should have begun with his birth
and ended with the year of publication. It should have not been an
incomplete story of Barry's life that stopped once the door of
available informants was slammed in her face. But that's what we
got. Again, to be fair to Patricia (and yes, I can be fair, even
given my extreme dislike for the woman), she did the best she could
with what little she had. The only other thing she could have done
was abandoned the project altogether.
Brenda
Nash's Gramma
she is too embarrassed over having caused such a brouhaha or she/he is
too aghast.
CA Sharon
Brenda M
Or he/she merely served his/her purpose, which was to act as a cyber
doorman for her eminence.
(Now watch... our mystery poster will magically reappear! LOL!)
Brenda
bythehex
That being said...thanks ladies (and I use that term loosely) for
regurgitating almost verbatim exactly the same arguments between the
same people that we’ve been reading here since the 1990’s. And thanks
for sniping at each other over books written in 1987 and 2001
respectively. Thanks for rehashing ancient history. Thanks for
criticizing the gals on the MMN and then acting as a mirror image of
what you accuse them of. Thanks for NOT taking the high road and
instead engaging each other, and thanks for escalating it so that the
original poster’s question gets totally lost. Yes I DO know we don’t
have to read the posts if we don’t like them, but you make it
difficult not to when you hijack a post that some of us would actually
like to know the answer to.
Thanks for demeaning all the fans by giving this glowing example of
what a Barry Manilow fan stands for. Because if not for you attacking
each other like a pack of snarling dogs over a bone, the rest of us
wouldn’t have our entertainment for a Monday.
Sharon H.
Brenda M
> First off, Happy Birthday Brenda.
Thank you, Sharon
>
> That being said...thanks ladies (and I use that term loosely) for
> regurgitating almost verbatim exactly the same arguments between the
> same people that we’ve been reading here since the 1990’s.
Yeah, it's summer. Always too many re-runs.
>
> Thanks for demeaning all the fans by giving this glowing example of
> what a Barry Manilow fan stands for. Because if not for you attacking
> each other like a pack of snarling dogs over a bone, the rest of us
> wouldn’t have our entertainment for a Monday.
>
> Sharon H.
Sharon,
I'm very sorry you feel that way, but you're entitled.
I, on the other hand, find it demeaning when fans who almost never
post here pop in, do their morality dance, judge those of us who DO
regularly post here, and scurry away. I feel that when you do that,
Sharon, YOU demean the fans. There's too much of that crap going on
over on the MMN. Must you be like them?
And, here's some news for you. Most of the discussions we have ARE re-
hashes of old discussions to some extent, because most of us are old
fans of a performer who's been around for four decades. So, if this re-
hash is not to your liking, just ignore it. (But I see that you
can't).
Or, better still, zip on over to your group so you can talk about how
much better you are than the people posting here.
Have a nice day.
Brenda
bythehex
<I'm very sorry you feel that way, but you're entitled.>
You’re exactly right Brenda, I AM entitled. I’m entitled to have an
opinion, to not like the fighting that goes on, and to share my
opinion with this open, unmoderated group where everyone has the same
right to speak as the next person. It doesn't make me holier than
thou, it just makes me someone with an opinion to voice.
<I, on the other hand, find it demeaning when fans who almost never
post here pop in, do their morality dance, judge those of us who DO
regularly post here, and scurry away. I feel that when you do that,
Sharon, YOU demean the fans. There's too much of that crap going on
over on the MMN. Must you be like them? >
It doesn’t matter if I post here once in a blue moon, once a day, once
a year or once a decade. There are no rules as to how many times
someone has to post in order to have a valid opinion or make a valid
point. I come and go as I please and make my points as I please…as you
do and as many others do. I don’t have to like what everyone says, and
you don’t have to like what I say.
As for the MMN, I left that group, on my own of my own choice, long
before it became a private group. I wouldn’t know what went on there
except that some of the others who post here have no qualms about
either reposting or commenting on what’s said there, who says it and
what they think of them. Again, voicing the opinion they’re entitled
to.
<Or, better still, zip on over to your group so you can talk about how
much better you are than the people posting here. >
What group would that be? I don’t have a group. I don’t own or
moderate any groups. And, I for one would never tell anyone here to
“go away”. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to read my posts
either – or respond to them. (But, I see that YOU can’t help yourself
either.)
<Have a nice day.>
And you too. I won't engage you over this anymore, I've said my piece.
Take it as you wish. For those of you who don't like what I had to
say, think long and hard about your behavior here and see if that's
how you choose to represent yourself as a fan. If it is, then you can
just ignore everything I said and keep on going as usual.
Sharon H.
Brenda M
bythehex wrote:
> You’re exactly right Brenda, I AM entitled. I’m entitled to have an
> opinion, to not like the fighting that goes on, and to share my
> opinion with this open, unmoderated group where everyone has the same
> right to speak as the next person. It doesn't make me holier than
> thou, it just makes me someone with an opinion to voice.
Sharon, I can understand why you'd hate to see fighting. But you could
have conveyed that without being insulting yourself.
So what makes you better than me?
You're not.
That's all I'm saying.
>
> What group would that be? I don’t have a group. I don’t own or
> moderate any groups.
My apologies - I thought you still belonged to another group. Didn't
realize you'd left.
And, I for one would never tell anyone here to
> “go away”. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to read my posts
> either – or respond to them. (But, I see that YOU can’t help yourself
> either.)
Sharon,
I'm not telling you to go away...sorry if I gave that impression. I
meant to suggest you might be more comfortable talking about us in a
different group setting. In fact, I would be most pleased if you'd
post here more often. Your posts, whether I agree with them or not,
are usually intelligent and well worth reading.
Cheers,
Brenda
Brenda M
so I'll be off the ng until tomorrow at the earliest.
But hey - there's lots of Barry-related topics here I'd love to see
your input on. Maybe I'll see you on one of those?
Don't be a stranger.
Cheers,
Brenda
new kid on the block
well now the dust has hopefully settled and the boxing gloves are
off.i never got the answer , i was asking why linda and barry just
parted company after all the years they spent together.
Nash's Gramma
<snort>
Why do people part company after years together? gee. I'm sure Barry
must have addressed that question in a barrygram or facebook post! Or
maybe Linda wrote a tell-all article for some tabloid.
Nobody outside Barry's circle knows what's gone on with Barry and
Linda, and even a "new" fan should realize that real friends don't
gossip
CA Sharon.
Nash's Gramma
Brenda, I love it when you're right.
CA Sharon
Dunbar
My educated guess is, she was his 'friend' while he got started in the
business- she made him look 'grounded' and served as a date to
events. To my understanding to what I've read, Barry never wanted to
get married again. It was fun at first for Linda, but pretty soon she
wanted a real commitment and took flight to find one. Which she did.
Manilow never married- so there's your answer. IMHO.
Dunbar
Makes one wonder 'who' the mystery poster is.. mmm?
Patricia
> Well, this should console you, Sharon... I'm leaving for a hot date,
> so I'll be off the ng until tomorrow at the earliest.
Taking the cat to the vet again?
Patricia
>
> You're still a pompous, self-righteous, insignificant would-be
> biographer (of what now - two people?) who can't feel good about
> herself unless she's putting down anybody who won't pander to her self-
> proclaimed, delusional sense of genius.
How am I a "would-be biographer" if I've published two biographies?
> No wonder Manilow and his current friends and family wanted nothing to
> do with you or your book...which is entirely based on third-party
> accounts from people who knew him decades ago (or at least thought
> they did). As a decent writer, you know that these limited insights
> only enabled you to paint half a picture for your readers, and it
> still bugs you. I remember how frustrated you were when nobody from
> Barry's camp would even talk to you.
You "remember" this? From what? All our long, private, intimate
conversations? You have an amazing memory for things you never knew
and that never happened.
A lot of folks here don't
> remember your posts from AOL, and the emails you sent all of us
> badgering us for information on Barry's life, and for information on
> how to reach Barry's people. You were desperate for more than you got
> because you knew what you had would never give you a Kitty Kelley
> bestseller. (And, being somewhat intelligent, you figured right).
Brenda, no one asked you for anything. Why would I? Had I handed my
publisher a manuscript that listed as sources a boatload of Manilow
fans, he would not have just rejected it, he would have first peed on
it, then set it on fire, then rejected it. A biographer might use
fans for color, but they don't use them for facts, for the simple
reason that fans -- you included -- don't have any facts to offer.
>
> And you never forgave Barry's fans for not helping you penetrate his
> fortress of privacy.
Tee hee! Seriously?! LOL! Barry's "fortress of privacy"? LOL!!!
And you would have been able to help me penetrate this "fortress"
because... you have the private number of the fortress fone?
RFLMAO!!!
> So you wrote that chapter about Barry's fans out of spite, borrowing
> almost all of your material from "Starlust." Besides, you needed to
> flesh out what you had written about Barry's life because you wouldn't
> have reached your word count otherwise.
Well, the chapter about Barry's fans was included because the book was
meant to be about how Barry is perceived by his fans and the public,
and the extremes with which he is judged. I didn't have a required
word count.
> That's YOUR legacy.
> Feel good?
That I've had two books published when 97% of aspiring writers never
even get one chance? Well -- yes! I feel REALLY good about that!
> Why not tell Sharon the truth - you did not miss her post. You
> continue to be obsessed with locking horns with me, above all other
> fans who fail to bow at your altar, because I know more of your
> pathetic history than others do.
I never said I missed Sharon's post. I said (and I'll say again, as
apparently you missed it) that I read first hers, then yours, and I
responded to both of you after that. Hence the post being addressed
to "you people" rather than to either Brenda or Sharon. And I'm not
sure what history you think you know. You don't know me; you've never
met me; you've never had a personal conversation with me; I've never
confided in you. You know precisely as much or as little about me as
anyone else posting obsessively as you do on these boards over the
same number of years.
I represent all those fans who
> wouldn't help you write a better book. Consequently, I know how to
> push your buttons. And, as flattering as that may be...I'm bored with
> you now.
> You used to be fun to spar with, but you've lost your edge.
Right. Just like the last 2 million times you've said similar things
over the last 10 years. Give it a rest already. And you represent no
one. I'm grateful to those fans who contributed photographs and
personal stories as well as suggestions and overall encouragement
while I was in the process of writing the book. Just because you
weren't one of those doesn't make you the queen of the never-were. It
just makes you never was.
>Ugly can't bear the sight of anything beautiful.
Thank you for finally explaining why you can't behave like a civilized
adult around me.
>
> So that's why I'm here. But understand one thing, Patricia: Nobody
> here owes you, or the likes of you, an explanation of why they enjoy
> hanging out here, because why YOU continue to hang out here isn't even
> based on happiness, joy, or any other positive emotion.
Um... when did I ever ask anyone here to explain why they hang out
here?
> Happiness... It's a feeling you apparently know nothing about, you
> humorless, self-loathing, miserable excuse for a human being.
Did I mention that my guy and I are closing on a house early next
month? It's a gorgeous tudor, built in 1935, with a really amazing
history. We were going to get married at the Civic Opera House, but
now we're planning on having the wedding on the north lawn, probably
next fall. I can't tell you how miserable this is all making me!
> Come back in another couple of months when some other mystery poster
> comes along and asks a question that justifies your existence. Come
> back when you need to lash out at someone in order to feel good. It's
> apparently all you've got.
Brenda, you started out accusing me of posing as someone else in order
to justify me posting here (though you can't quite manage to explain
why I would need to do that instead of just -- you know -- posting
here), then you went off like a bottle rocket, calling me names,
making nasty comments about what you imagine to be my personal life,
and generally acting like a lunatic. So I think the whole "lashing
out" thing might be a bit misdirected.
> P.S. Barry has a wonderful new CD out called "15 Minites." You might
> want to check it out. And then, when you do, maybe you can come here
> and discuss something artistic and meaningful along with the rest of
> us.
> Try it. It might sop up some of that acid dripping from your keyboard.
> Who knows? It could even make you happy.
>
> Maybe.
Brenda, barely a day goes by that doesn't include you complaining
about Barry and/or those around Barry. You've accused them of having
threatened you (though naturally you've never been able to provide any
evidence of these threats, because you're terribly worried about
protecting the privacy of those threatening you) and personally
interfering with your life and your work. You claim they have banned
you from websites and social events. So how is it that you're some
Manilow uber-fan whose entire being is focused on the love and
appreciation of Barry Manilow's art? Because you'd be hard pressed to
know it from the things you actually post.
Patricia
Brenda, please don't pretend that you're being fair and impartial; you
insult everyone with this nonsense. And don't speak for me -- ever.
You have no idea what I could or couldn't do, nor why I did or didn't
do anything, so please don't make statements that suggest you have
some inside track -- you don't.
There's a reason that employers don't let people use their friends and
family members as references. It's the same reason that biographers
who want a true portrait of their subject rarely waste their time
contacting the people who are either current close personal friends of
the subject, or people currently dependent on the subject for all or
part of their income. There's no point to it. All you would end up
with is countless hours of people basically reading you a press
release of all the wonderful traits of the subject -- pretty much all
of which you can also find on that subject's website -- with perhaps a
couple of pithy stories of the funny/touching/insightful thing the
subject said that night when he/she rescued those adorable orphans and
their little dog from that burning building.
Brenda, you have no idea who I wanted to talk to and who, of those
people, I did talk to. You don't know who I approached who said yes,
and who I approached who said no. You have no idea if the people you
think should have been included are people I ever even momentarily
considered worth pursuing. You also apparenlty have no idea how a
biography should be structured, or even that there's more than one way
to do so. I have had two biographies published, and I'm working on a
third, so I actually have a fairly good grasp on the genre.
The best way to explain and understand anyone is to explain and
understand their history and all the things that went into creating
the adult. Since you don't seem to have read the book, I will tell
you that it begins two generations before Barry's birth and follows a
fairly straightforward chronology to the present day. I felt I did
quite a good job of revealing the foundation upon which Barry was able
to build a life and a career and, as stated as the book's purpose in
the prologue, exploring the world's reaction to Manilow and the
reasons he elicits such extremes from the public and other
professionals. If you weren't able to get any of that out of the
book, I might suggest that it could be because you approached the book
with anything but an open mind. The fact that you "reviewed" the book
before it was actually available for you to read might've been the
first clue that you weren't exactly interested in being fair and
impartial.
Patricia
>
> I was "gifted" the book from a friend in the UK as I wasn't going to
> spend my hard earned cash on it, that's for sure.
>
> It was okay ... not great. Photos were good. There were no direct
> quotes from Barry or his inner circle. Just from people he worked with
> 30 years ago - some who may have left Camp Manilow under not so
> pleasant circumstances.
>
> I have remained in contact with several people who worked with Barry
> in the 1980's. They have never, ever, EVER uttered a cross word about
> Barry. Butler didn't even approach them as it wouldn't have played
> into her bitter superstar/miserable life agenda.
Yes, I seem to remember you making claims like this before. Funny
thing is, though -- you can't mention a single name that could be used
to either prove or disprove your claims. But, that small point aside,
you just insulted me for (according to you, though untrue) only
quoting people Manilow worked with 30 years ago, so why would the book
have been improved if I talked to peole you said worked with Barry in
the 1980's? Granted, math isn't my subject, but weren't the 1980's
approximately... 30 years ago?
>
> The chapter taken from "starlust" was, in a word ... crap. I don't
> know of a SINGLE fan who has "tea with Bazza" every morning and talks
> to their cardboard cutout daily. There's a few I might suspect do it
> -- but it's not anyone that I know personally.
So, let me get this straight: If you don't know someone personally who
does something you read about in a book, then that means that no
actual people exist who do those things described? Doesn't that
pretty much wipe out all of history and most of current events, too?
> Butler just wanted to paint as horrible a photo of "fans" as they
> wouldn't help her. Don't find the fans who donated $5000 (or whatever
> the amount was ) to sponsor a litter of seeing eye dogs for the blind
> - all named with Manilow references, Or the ones who have donated
> countless hours to doing charity work in Barry's name. For the most
> part, I would say that Maniow fans can be the most giving of any
> people I've ever met. You wouldn't know it from what Butler wrote.
You also wouldn't know it from pretty much anything that's posted on
this board, as much of it is full of hatred and vitriole, a lot of
which is exemplified in your posts, Sharon. Besides, I just re-read
Brenda's treatise on how a biography should be structured, and nowhere
did she mention a chapter on the good deeds of people who aren't the
subject.
> Her dislike of fans was evident. I know there have been
countless
> other projects we've been involved with over these 20+ years. There's
> no telling how much money has been donated in Barry's name thru his
> fans charity efforts, but I'm sure it's a hefty sum.
And the next time someone writes a book on the charitable efforts of
Barry Manilow fans, I'm sure that information will come in mighty
handy.
> But I must wonder .. she's written the book ... it's done (and it was
> probably at least 10 years ago --). There's no market for it -- as
> Manilow is a yawn when it comes to tabloid sensationalism. His
> private life is not "breaking headline news". If he beat up cats and
> said his next concert was going to be on the exhiled planet Pluto -
> okay. Maybe you might garner some interest from the National
> Enquirer. Otherwise? Nope.
Hmm... but weren't there articles in both the National Enquirer and
The Star? Hmm... And isn't the book still in print in most of the
world? Wow - mystery!
>
> So ... why keep coming back here?
Sharon, Brenda said to tell you: "But understand one thing, [Sharon]:
Nobody
here owes you, or the likes of you, an explanation of why they enjoy
hanging out here, because why YOU continue to hang out here isn't
even
based on happiness, joy, or any other positive emotion."
So, there's that question answered for you!
Patricia
>
> - Show quoted text -
Probably Brenda.
Dunbar
I would believe that could be true! Congrats on your upcoming
wedding. Sounds like you have some life going on- oh, and you are
absolutely correct on how to write a biography. Rarely would anyone
'current' in a celeb's circle discuss that life with ANYONE.
Patricia
>
> - Show quoted text -
I actually had someone years ago tell me that Linda is living in the
Pacific Northwest (which I say because I can't remember which state
out that way) with her partner. Beards go both ways.
Brenda M
Yeah, me too!
It's such a special occasion when it happens, I like to put it in my
diary. :-)
Cheers,
Brenda
Dunbar
Washington state, and you could be correct- though it seemed the last
photograph I saw of her was with some man- but don't quote me on that
one.
Patricia
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry, but I just can't help but point this out: Do you notice how
incredibly quiet it gets all of a sudden when Brenda is asked
questions she can't answer and/or asked to explain things she said
that she can't defend? We may well have cracked the answer to peace
in our time -- ask Brenda to explain herself!
Brenda M
Were you still talking?
For the last time, Patricia...
I'm not a lesbian.
I'm not interested in you.
You need to get over me.
Please move on and obsess about someone else.
Brenda
Nash's Gramma
>
> - Show quoted text -
Or maybe she's just as tired of you as I am. If only it was as easy to
get rid of you.
CA Sharon
Brenda M
>
> Or maybe she's just as tired of you as I am. If only it was as easy to
> get rid of you.
Bingo, Sharon. I just couldn't read any more spewage sliming off her
keyboard. It was killing my pre-concert buzz, and I am only a few days
away from what is sure to be the best show I've ever seen.
With the Butler, you have to know that she will never stop fighting
because she has zero self-control. She would love nothing more than
to argue with me into infinity. All one can do is let her have the
last word, and maybe she'll go away.
So.... I think the best thing to do at this point is just let her rant
and rave. When we stop responding entirely, she'll give up and slither
over to some other group to harass. That's always been her SOP.
Brenda
Patricia
Just like your SOP, when confronted with your own bad behavior and
lies, is to suddenly pretend to be taking the high road when, in
truth, you're just taking the fastest possible route you can to run
away from questions and comments that threaten to expose you and
topple you off this bizarre little throne you've constructed for
yourself. After all, what would your life be if you weren't able to
hold court here, insulting and complaining about Manilow between
stories of how he and his people are so incredibly in fear of you that
they work 'round the clock trying to control you?
Patricia
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sharon, weren't there a few questions you forgot to answer, too?
Patricia
In other words, you can't answer the direct questions put to you or
explain your contradictory and hypocritical behavior without admitting
that you've both lied about certain things/people and have generally
behaved badly. I think we can all read between those lines by now.
Nash's Gramma
What-EVAH. Look in the mirror, if you want to see contradictory and
hypocritical. I've been reading between YOUR lines for years and
years.
CA Sharon
Patricia
>
> - Show quoted text -
In other words, yes, there were questions you couldn't answer, either,
without admitting that you were wrong and, in some cases, rather
stupid as well. By the way, you forgot "Soze yer muther!" and "Sez
you!"
