"Copacabana" TV Tropes page is up

[Kitten Mommy]

My God, keeping you folks on track is like trying to herd cats. And
*I* should know!

Since my original thread has degenerated into a list of Barry's screen
credits, I decided to begin a new one for this.

The first, very rough draft is here:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Copacabana

Hopefully now you'll see what I'm trying to do here. TV Tropes is
just like Wikipedia; anything in blue can be moused over, and clicking
on it will bring you to the relevant page.

Spoilers on that page must be highlighted to be read. You'll see what
I mean when you get there; anywhere that it looks like text is
missing, well, there actually is text there. Click and highlight to
read it. The reason it's hidden is that it's a "spoiler" to someone
who hasn't seen the movie yet. IOW*, it would ruin part of the movie
for them.

Please let me know what you think, what I've missed, and anything else
that can be improved. And would someone please help me cobble
together a decent summary of the plot?

Thanks in advance!

*IOW = In Other Words

[Nash's Gramma]

.  And would someone please help me cobble
> together a decent summary of the plot?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>

Boy meets girl, boy gets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back,
girl repays him by shooting him.
CA Sharon

[Kitten Mommy]

Oh, God. That's absolutely perfect! But I'll have to spoiler that
last bit...

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 16, 4:43 pm, "Nash's Gramma" <starns0...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Aaaannnd... done! I gave you credit! ;)

What do you think of the tropes?

[marvin]

>
> > Boy meets girl, boy gets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back,
> > girl repays him by shooting him.
>
> Oh, God.  That's absolutely perfect!  But I'll have to spoiler that
> last bit...

It is not perfect. The spoiler is incorrect. Lola did not shoot Tony
or Rico. Rico shot Tony, so your plot should read:
Boy meets girl,boy loses girl, boy gets girl back, boy gets shot by
the other guy. Marvin.

[Nash's Gramma]

Marvin, the song says "There was blood and a single gun shot But just
who shot who?" In the movie, Lola is struggling with Rico for the gun,
Tony rushes over to help, and is shot. As Tony falls to the ground,
the gun is in Lola's hand. The implication is, that she shot him.
CA Sharon

[Nash's Gramma]

On Nov 16, 1:57 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Very cool. Takes a lot of time and energy to come up with that stuff!

[Kitten Mommy]

I just found a couple of others I have to add. TV Tropes Will Ruin
Your LIfe! ;)

[dcsharon]

On Nov 16, 4:29 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:


for Luke I'm your Father -- James T. Callahan plays Tony Starr's
father in the movie.

The character is credited as "Dennis Riley" .. but I don't recall him
saying his name in the dialogue.

And... I think that you see Mr. C (Tom Boseley) in one of the "Sing
that Song" segments.

(DC) Sharon

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 16, 9:33 pm, dcsharon <dcsha...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 16, 4:29 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> for Luke I'm your Father -- James T. Callahan plays Tony Starr's
> father in the movie.
>
> The character is credited as "Dennis Riley" .. but I don't recall him
> saying his name in the dialogue.

No, but Tony mentions the last name to Lola, and IMDB tells me his
first name is "Dennis". LOL

> And... I think that you see Mr. C (Tom Boseley) in one of the "Sing
> that Song" segments.

Yay! Two more for Hey It's That Guy/Lady! :D

Thanks muchly! *runs off to edit*

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 16, 9:33 pm, dcsharon <dcsha...@aol.com> wrote:

Crap. Someone went through there like crazy and edited the hell out
of the whole damn thing.

BRB

[bookworm]

That is 100% correct, Sharon. Marvin better watch the movie again!

[NoOtherLove]

Not if you ask Barry....he says it was Rico!!

[Kitten Mommy]

Seriously! I only saw it *once*, and I knew *that*! LOL

Also: someone re-edited it for the better. Some of the stuff I put on
the main page belonged on the Trivia page, and some stuff was
superfluous. And the rest... well, TV Tropes is capricious, and we
just go with the flow. LOL

But obviously *someone* was paying attention, so the page is getting
hits! :D

[marvin]

On Nov 16, 9:41 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't want to take any of this all that seriously. But if there
was a murder trial, it was obvious in the movie that Rico intended to
kill Tony. Just because Lola was holding the gun does not mean she
killed Tony. Rico killed Tony and Rico would have been convicted,
unless he had OJ Simpson's attorneys as his lawyers (joke- I hope).
By the way, I find the stage version with the much happier and
traditional musical comedy ending of Conchita killing Rico the bad guy
a better way to end the story. I know the lyrics of Copacabana had a
dark ending, but did not like to see Barry Manilow (Tony) dying in the
end; it took some of the joy out of the film. Marvin.

[Kitten Mommy]

Obviously, Barry never saw the movie! :p

OK, seriously, do I need to edit the article thusly:

"Word Of God: Despite the fact that Lola is seen holding the gun,
Manilow himself says that Rico shot Tony."

Yes? No? Ambiguous Ending?

Please let me know!

[Nash's Gramma]

On Nov 16, 7:24 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Of course Barry's going to say Rico did it. He loves Lola, and he
would never want her to blame herself, even though that is patently
what she is doing for the next 40 years. Seriously, anyone who thinks
she's been sitting on that barstool drinking for 40 years is crazy.
She'd have died of liver failure long before. And what's up with that
Victorian get up. She never once wore that dress in the movie. If it's
supposed to be her wedding dress, it's not even close to the one she
actually wore in the wedding scenes.

Help. Somebody stop me before I dredge up over 20 years of unasked/
unanswered nitpicks.

My vote is for ambiguous ending. I really, really believe Lola did it,
because of the look on her face when she realizes what she's done. She
doesn't drop to her knees and cradle her dying husband. No, she stands
there in shock, looking at the gun in her hand.

But go for ambigious. It suits the whole Manilow mystique.
CA Sharon

[bookworm]

> end; it took some of the joy out of the film. Marvin.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

In the movie, the implication was Lola shot him because the gun was in
her hand and the look of shock on her face was pretty evident. I took
the 'song' implication as Rico shot him. It could be assumed that she
drank herself into oblivion from the guilt of killing him.

Marvin, it was just a movie but a lot of people didn't like that part.
However, to finish the song, Tony had to be shot and had to die or the
last part of the song would have had to be written differently. I
must say I enjoyed the movie and feel Barry did a great job in it for
not being an actor. I'll never forget that hat on him when he was
swinging from that rope! lol lol lol

And that white tux...................holy smokes!

[Suzan]

> OK, seriously, do I need to edit the article thusly:
>
> "Word Of God: Despite the fact that Lola is seen holding the gun,
> Manilow himself says that Rico shot Tony."
>
> Yes?  No?  Ambiguous Ending?
>
> Please let me know!

Wow, you put a lot of work into this, KittenMommy!

As for TV Tropes, I would need to be more familiar with them to
identify them in a film. However, I imagine that it's a lot of fun to
watch a movie with other Tropers and be calling them out as you
identify them. "Loser Protagonist!" "Running Gag!"

I think you should leave the ending the way it actually is....They
struggle, Tony falls to the floor, and Lola is left holding the gun.
That way, they can interpret it however they like.

"But just who shot who?"

Personally, I never doubted Lola shot him in the movie version--Sorry
Marvin!
I guess that would be "Twist Ending" (Maybe I'm getting the hang of
this Tropes thing after all...)

[bookworm]

> CA Sharon- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree, Sharon as I posted above. Isn't it 30 years ago, not 40?
Doesn't Barry sing 'that was 30 years ago when they used to have a
show'? I think I better go listen to Copa again. :-)

This has turned out to be a good discussion!

[Nash's Gramma]

In the song, it's 30. But the song was written in the 70's. The movie
was made in, what, 1985. So, by the time the movie ends, it's the
80's, and Lola is supposedly still sitting on that bar stool drinking
away her pain. Uh-huh.Right.

[Suzan]

>
> I agree, Sharon as I posted above. Isn't it 30 years ago, not 40?
> Doesn't Barry sing 'that was 30 years ago when they used to have a
> show'? I think I better go listen to Copa again. :-)
>

> This has turned out to be a good discussion!- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

It was 30 years originally, since it referred to the 1940s but
somewhere, in one of the many, many, many versions of Copa I've
accumulated, he sang 40 years. Eventually the calendar caught up
with him and he changed it to "that was many years ago"....

Does anyone recall the 2nd Barry Manilow TV Special? The lyrics of
the last verse were all different. I may be mis-remembering as it's
been ages, but I think it goes something like:

Her name is Lola
She was a showgirl
But now her heart has turned to stone
and her nights will be alone

So when the rhythm starts,
You better play it smart (play the part?)
Learn your lesson from lonely Lola and don't LOSE YOUR HEART!

At the Copa....

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 16, 11:45 pm, Suzan <suzan.obe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > OK, seriously, do I need to edit the article thusly:
>
> > "Word Of God: Despite the fact that Lola is seen holding the gun,
> > Manilow himself says that Rico shot Tony."
>
> > Yes?  No?  Ambiguous Ending?
>
> > Please let me know!
>
> Wow, you put a lot of work into this, KittenMommy!

LOL

>
> As for TV Tropes, I would need to be more familiar with them to
> identify them in a film.  However, I imagine that it's a lot of fun to
> watch a movie with other Tropers and be calling them out as you
> identify them.  "Loser Protagonist!"  "Running Gag!"

Yeah, once TV Tropes Ruins Your Life, it's hard not to watch anything
and not think, "OMG, that's a Bolivian Army Ending!" or whatever.
*sigh*

> I think you should leave the ending the way it actually is....They
> struggle, Tony falls to the floor, and Lola is left holding the gun.
> That way, they can interpret it however they like.
> "But just who shot who?"

I love ambiguity and the possibility of multiple interpretations. I
guess if I didn't, I wouldn't be a "Doctor Who" fan. ;)

> Personally, I never doubted Lola shot him in the movie version--Sorry
> Marvin!
> I guess that would be "Twist Ending" (Maybe I'm getting the hang of
> this Tropes thing after all...)

You definitely are!

The song heavily implies (but does not outright state) that Rico is
the culprit; therefore, to any viewers who come into the movie already
familiar with the song, the ending would *absolutely* come across as a
Twist Ending. That's how I saw it, anyway. I swear to God, I was
sitting in front of my MacBook Pro's screen with my mouth literally
hanging open.

The song sets us up for one ending, and the movie provides another.
Definitely a Twist Ending in my book! :D

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 16, 11:26 pm, "Nash's Gramma" <starns0...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Of course Barry's going to say Rico did it. He loves Lola,

Oh geeze, this guy doesn't just have issues, he has *subscriptions*!

> and he
> would never want her to blame herself, even though that is patently
> what she is doing for the next 40 years. Seriously, anyone who thinks
> she's been sitting on that barstool drinking for 40 years is crazy.
> She'd have died of liver failure long before.

Well, she did "[lose] her mind". Alcohol poisoning'll do that to ya.

But yeah, I can't imagine she'd last thirty years drinking herself
half blind, let alone *forty*.

> And what's up with that
> Victorian get up. She never once wore that dress in the movie. If it's
> supposed to be her wedding dress, it's not even close to the one she
> actually wore in the wedding scenes.
>
> Help. Somebody stop me before I dredge up over 20 years of unasked/
> unanswered nitpicks.

http://www.nitpickers.com/

Have fun! :D

>
> My vote is for ambiguous ending. I really, really believe Lola did it,
> because of the look on her face when she realizes what she's done. She
> doesn't drop to her knees and cradle her dying husband. No, she stands
> there in shock, looking at the gun in her hand.

Yeah, that was my take too.

> But go for ambigious. It suits the whole Manilow mystique.

Hmm. I'll have to re-edit the article. But tomorrow. I'm sick,
miserable, and high on cough medicine. And my throat hurts. :(

[bookworm]

lol lol lol lol - you're right, Suzan! I forgot about Barry singing
'that was MANY years ago' when they used to have a show..........now
it's a disco............. weren't discos big in the 70's? That brings
Saturday Night Fever to mind. Times sure have changed.

[Nash's Gramma]

On Nov 16, 9:24 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I'm sick, miserable, and can't take cough medicine. High blood
pressure, you know. And my throat doesn't hurt anymore but my ears do.
Can you catch a cold via the internet, or is it just viruses? (bada
bing)
CA Sharon

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 17, 12:22 am, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> lol lol lol lol - you're right, Suzan! I forgot about Barry singing
> 'that was MANY years ago' when they used to have a show..........now
> it's a disco............. weren't discos big in the 70's? That brings
> Saturday Night Fever to mind. Times sure have changed.

Yes, discos were in the '70s. Not so much in the '80s.

[Kitten Mommy]

PS:

On Nov 16, 11:26 pm, "Nash's Gramma" <starns0...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> My vote is for ambiguous ending. I really, really believe Lola did it,
> because of the look on her face when she realizes what she's done. She
> doesn't drop to her knees and cradle her dying husband.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CradlingYourKill

> No, she stands
> there in shock, looking at the gun in her hand.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MyGodWhatHaveIDone

See what I mean about TV Tropes ruining your life?? ;)

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 17, 12:36 am, "Nash's Gramma" <starns0...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I'm sick, miserable, and can't take cough medicine. High blood
> pressure, you know.

I have HBP too. Oh, no! D:

> And my throat doesn't hurt anymore but my ears do.

Ugh. I'm sorry!

> Can you catch a cold via the internet, or is it just viruses? (bada
> bing)

Colds are viruses. /pedantic.

Here's a cold you'd love to catch: http://www.giantmicrobes.com/us/products/commoncold.html

And yes, I have him. Kittendaddy bought him for me! He also gave me
E. coli, Mad Cow, Pimple, Kissing Disease, The Clap, and Scarlet
Fever!

My husband is quite a guy! ;)

Don't worry, I gave him Athlete's Foot. ;)

[Nash's Gramma]

On Nov 16, 9:55 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Now I know what to be for Halloween next year.
CA Sharon

[Beanz]

I hope you wanna be a vet next Hallowe'en. ;O)

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 17, 1:24 am, "Nash's Gramma" <starns0...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Now I know what to be for Halloween next year.

LOL! You *must* post pics! :D

[Suzan]

> Here's a cold you'd love to catch:http://www.giantmicrobes.com/us/products/commoncold.html

Oddly, I have a couple of these stuffed guys as well, as I picked them
up as giveaways at scientific/medical trade shows. I'm looking at a
brine shrimp (sea monkey) right now, and I think there's an E. coli
(or maybe it's a Streptococcus?) around here somewhere....

[Kitten Mommy]

I have Strep and E. coli. Gosh, that sounds awful, doesn't it?

Is the shrimp a Krill? Because that one's really cute too!

[Lorrie]

On Nov 16, 6:18 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 16, 6:15 pm, "Nash's Gramma" <starns0...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 1:57 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 16, 4:43 pm, "Nash's Gramma" <starns0...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > .  And would someone please help me cobble> together a decent summary of the plot?
>
> > > > > Thanks in advance!

>
> > > > Boy meets girl, boy gets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back,
> > > > girl repays him by shooting him.
>

> > > Aaaannnd... done!  I gave you credit! ;)
>
> > > What do you think of the tropes?
>
> > Very cool. Takes a lot of time and energy to come up with that stuff!
>
> I just found a couple of others I have to add.  TV Tropes Will Ruin
> Your LIfe! ;)

this computer of mine would not stay on for the enitire movie of copa
so i gave up
never knew what a trope was until now...and i have never really seen
the copa movie

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 17, 12:27 pm, Lorrie <222lorrie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> this computer of mine would not stay on for the enitire movie of copa
> so i gave up

Awww. You need a new computer!

> never knew what a trope was until now...

That site is seriously addictive. Watch out! ;)

> and i have never really seen
> the copa movie

Me neither, until the other day. I didn't even know it existed! D:

The DVD is available through Amazon. If you can't get the computer to
behave, it might be worth picking up a copy there. It's a seriously
fun movie, NGL*.


*NGL = Not Gonna Lie

[Suzan]

> Is the shrimp a Krill?  Because that one's really cute too!

Yep, that's definitely him (or maybe, her, since it's pink).

http://www.giantmicrobes.com/us/products/krill.html

[marvin]

Hi Bookworm,
I thought Barry did a good piece of acting for his first time
out and like you I liked his hat in the "El Bravo" number trying to
rescue Lola and escaping from Rico and Havana.
I know the film had to follow the original lyrics to the song
with Tony dead and Lola sitting with the same dress in the original
Copacabana nightclub that is now a disco.
But lots of folks- including some ardent Barry fans- did not
like to see Barry Manilow dead on the screen, even though he is acting
a part. A musical comedy is not supposed to end with a dark ending.
Barry and Bruce changed the story with a very happy ending in the
stage show with Conchita shooting Rico, everyone celebrating Lola and
Tony's wedding, and the big surprise of all this being a fantasy
created by a songwriter named Stephen. I liked this ending much better
than the film. Marvin

[Kitten Mommy]

Awesome! I really should get some more of those. They're just so
cute!

This past summer, we attended a (very flamboyantly gay) friend's 70th
birthday party. We gave him Herpes as his gift. ;)

[Suzan]

 >>We gave him Herpes as his gift. ;)

The gift that keeps on giving?
(Sorry--couldn't resist)

[Lorrie]

On Nov 17, 11:37 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I may check out the DVD thanks..I can see that tropes is addictive you
are not kidding!
Thanks for the NGL meaning too!
Oh and completely off this topic..remember when you were showing me
the Dr Who Actors?
well if would have watched the credits I would have seen Matt smiths
on there! DUH!
Lorrie

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 17, 1:33 pm, Lorrie <222lorrie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 11:37 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 17, 12:27 pm, Lorrie <222lorrie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > this computer of mine would not stay on for the enitire movie of copa
> > > so i gave up
>
> > Awww.  You need a new computer!
>
> > > never knew what a trope was until now...
>
> > That site is seriously addictive.  Watch out! ;)
>
> > > and i have never really seen
> > > the copa movie
>
> > Me neither, until the other day.  I didn't even know it existed! D:
>
> > The DVD is available through Amazon.  If you can't get the computer to
> > behave, it might be worth picking up a copy there.  It's a seriously
> > fun movie, NGL*.
>
> > *NGL = Not Gonna Lie
>
> I may check out the DVD thanks..

You're welcome!

> I can see that tropes is addictive you
> are not kidding!

It's sooo easy to kill a few hours there without even realizing it.
It's even worse than Wikipedia, IMO.

> Thanks for the NGL meaning too!

You're welcome! ;)

> Oh and completely off this topic..remember when you were showing me
> the Dr Who Actors?
> well if would have watched the credits I would have seen Matt smiths
> on there! DUH!

LOL. Yeah, BBC America is probably showing Matt Smith now. I never
watch on BBC America; I watch all my "Doctor Who" online. That way I
know it's not cut for commercials!

[bookworm]

> than the film. Marvin- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Marvin,

I thought the hat was hilarious! And all Barry's friends familiar
with the song should have known how it was going to play out. Those
that didn't like it should get out of a fantasy world and come into
the real world. The rest of the song about Lola would have to have
been rewritten if he had lived. The stage play was not true to the
song. No matter how dark people think the ending was, it was true to
the song. That's the bottom line.

[Kitten Mommy]

LOL, YES!

[Lorrie]

On Nov 17, 12:55 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>

I have been going on tropes alot today and than coming back here..!
Dr Who Is on PBS (public broadcasting service) had to put that in..now
whether it is associated with BBC America that could well be
They are showing the ones with the lizard looking people ?? If they
have a name i forget it
so is that more recent? Maybe online would be better when this
computer works properly..sometimes the signal goes off..
I also like when that show how Dr Who is made the behind the scenes
versions

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 17, 2:14 pm, Lorrie <222lorrie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been going on tropes alot today and than coming back here..!

LOL. TV Tropes WIll Ruin Your Life. Truefax! ;)

> Dr Who Is on PBS (public broadcasting service) had to put that in..now
> whether it is associated with BBC America that could well be

PBS always showed the original series of "Doctor Who". It wouldn't
surprise me if they're showing the new one now.

> They are showing the ones with the lizard looking people ?? If they
> have a name i forget it

The Silurians! Also known as the Sea Devils, but they're not very
fond of that name. I don't blame them!

> so is that more recent?

Yeah, that's pretty recent. It was in that episode that Rory got
erased from existence. But he got better!

> Maybe online would be better when this
> computer works properly..sometimes the signal goes off..

Wireless networks can be persnickity!

> I also like when that show how Dr Who is made the behind the scenes
> versions

"Doctor Who Confidential"! I haven't watched many of them, TBH*.
Though the ones I saw, I liked.

*To Be Honest

[Beanz]

On Nov 17, 10:49 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

What!!!!???? :Oo

[Kitten Mommy]

LOL! Click here: http://www.giantmicrobes.com/us/products/herpes.html

Feel better now? ;)

[Lorrie]

On Nov 17, 3:46 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>

WHOA!!!!

[Kitten Mommy]

On Nov 17, 4:48 pm, Lorrie <222lorrie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> WHOA!!!!

LOL, right??? :D