Buying Tickets Via BMIFC

[Vicki]

Hey gang !!

Even though I have a hotel room for the night of Barry's show at Foxwoods, still no tickets. I've heard through the Twitter grapevine that the fan club now lets you know where your seats are when you buy them. That was the main reasons I never bought from them before. If this is true AND there are FC seats left for Foxwoods, that'll save me from 12+ hours at their box office, which I'm WAY too middle-aged for. :P

Can someone confirm this policy?

Thanks,

Vicki

[Brenda M]

Quinncy?

Can you double-check with Garry and let her know, please?


Thanks,

Brenda

[Vicki]

Brenda,

Why the snark? I'm serious about my question. And why bring Quinncy into this? Or Garry? I just want to know the best route to get the best seats for the best deal. That's it.

Vicki .... off to get more caffeine, 'cause she's a bit confused right now.

[Maria Mikol]

Vicki- why don't you just log on to the site and check out other ticket sales? I would think they will all be done the same way. Maria

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[Vicki]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:55:18 AM UTC-5, Maria Mikol wrote:
> Vicki- why don't you just log on to the site and check out other ticket sales? I would think they will all be done the same way. Maria
>

'Cause I'm not a member of the fan club as of now. Joining, to me, would be pointless if I'm not able to know where the seats are located first. I mean, the hat would be nice and all, but ....

Vicki ... who thought this was a simple question. Guess not.

[meshuga]

Hi Vicki,

It is a simple question, and the equally simple question is yes...when you buy tickets for the 2015 shows via the BMIFC for most (not all) venues you can see exactly which section, row and seat # you are purchasing. I checked the Foxwoods sale for you and you will be able to see exactly where you'd be sitting. It's well worth the $9.99 membership fee if you're looking for an early shot at good seats.

Hope this helps.

Amy

[Vicki]

THANK you, Amy.

That's exactly what I needed to know, so I shall call BMIFC at 1-ish ET, join, then get a pair of tickets. (If that makes me a Ticket Whore, so be it.)

NOW I'm excited. :) More excited. OK, *really* excited. He's SO good at Foxwoods. <squeeeeeeee>

Vicki .... anyone else remember the Lady Flash reunion show there? Perfection.

[Brenda M]

Vicki,

No "snark" at all intended ... I was being sincere.

With all the seating issues others have been reporting on this newsgroup, I REALLY AND TRULY hope you get an answer to your question!!!!

Since GCK no longer posts here, I'm hopeful that someone like Quinncy can check in with Garry and get back to you on that.

Brenda

[Brenda M]

The Lady Flash reunion shows?

You bet I remember them ... I got to sing with Barry at one of those shows. :-)

Brenda

P.S. You know, when I was a kid listening to the "Live" album, I used to sing along and pretend I was a member of Lady Flash. After my Can't Smile moment, it only occurred to me hours later (after the shock wore off) that I had been on the same stage as Lady Flash ... at last.

God really does pay attention sometimes.

[Vicki]

Brenda,

I had read all the posts about great FC seats this time around. I was just unsure about *how* the procedure worked. And yes, I did get the question answered (thank you again, Amy !) so I'll be joining the FC/getting tickets this afternoon.

Vicki

[Brenda M]

Cool!

Good luck ... hope you get the seats you want!

Brenda

[Vicki]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:07:15 AM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:
> The Lady Flash reunion shows?
>
> You bet I remember them ... I got to sing with Barry at one of those shows. :-)

NICE !!! So THAT'S when it was? As we say on Twitter, #Jelly

> P.S. You know, when I was a kid listening to the "Live" album, I used to sing along and pretend I was a member of Lady Flash.

I still do. Think I know their tracks better than Barry's.

PS Maybe it was just the Foxwoods shows, but Reparata looked a *mite* rough on that tour. Sounded OK though. Last I read, she's now a semi-pro poker player?

Vicki

[dcsharon]

Someone posted on Facebook that you had to have your membership in 24 hours before the sale ... I'm not paying attention to these ticket on-sale dates, so hopefully you joined in time, IF there is a 24 hour waiting time period.

(DC) Sharon

[Brenda M]

Is she really????

I loved her. She and Barry had awesome chemistry, at least on stage!

Brenda

[shado...@gmail.com]

Actually when I bought my ticket for Pittsburg on Monday through the BMIFC I could if I wanted look at the seating chart. I'm on FLR 1 Row C Seat 4. Not
bad for 150.75. The base price was 129.75 plus all the extras brought it up
to the 150.75.
Linda

[dcsharon]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/reparata-mazzola/8/2bb/818

She may have played poker, but her Linked-in Profile says she wrote for poker magazines.

(Speaking of poker, I was at a dinner one night in Maryland, and the guy seated across from me spent the evening wearing sunglasses, which I thought was odd, but I didn't ask ...). A few weeks later, i get a text saying "turn on ESPN2, Greg is about to win World Series of Poker. My dinner companion was Greg Merson and I had no idea!)

(DC) Sharon

[Suzan]

Vicki, I have a membership and just pulled seats for Foxwoods to see what is left. For a single seat, I pulled.

ORCH R | Row K | Seat 24 $269.75
or if you prefer the left,
ORCH L Row M Seat 19.

If you want two together, I pulled

ORCH R | Row N | Seat 18, seat 20 (they number evenly by twos on the right)
or
ORCH L Row O seats 9 and 11



Those aren't too bad if you want them (I"m releasing them from my cart). Alternately, I'm sure there is a general public sale in the near future as well, if you want to take your chances there.

Good luck!
Suzan

[Kittenmommy]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:02:02 AM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:

> Since GCK no longer posts here, I'm hopeful that someone like Quinncy can check in with Garry and get back to you on that.

Why doesn't someone just e mail Garry and ask him where the hell he is? People have questions!!

[pnk...@gmail.com]

Anyone who wants answers can email Garry at Stiletto or at his gmail address and ask him questions. But he's not in charge of ticket selling. Call or email Stiletto Solutions for the answer. Why would Garry come here to chat just to answer questions that should be addressed to someone else?
Diane

[Brenda M]

Diane,

Because he's done it before, and was often quite helpful.

Brenda

[Kittenmommy]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:55:18 AM UTC-5, Maria Mikol wrote:

> Vicki- why don't you just log on to the site and check out other ticket sales? I would think they will all be done the same way.

From what I've been reading here, it sounds like they're playing some kind of crazy game of musical chairs with the seating charts. So, even logging onto the site and looking at the charts might not do her any good!

[Maria Mikol]

Had to renew today. Tried to login and boom- nothing.

Must say- listening to the 2 Nights Live opening. No one opens like Barry. The beginning of his shows are always fantastic.

[Brenda M]

He's had some good ones, Maria. It would be hard for me to choose a favorite, but I was fond of the "Right Here, Right now" opening ... really built up a lot of excitement.

Brenda

[Maria Mikol]

Loved that one Brenda. That's the one with Kathy Lee, right? "i'm the Biggest Barry Manilow fan in America"!

[Sheila]

He was using the 'right Here, Right Now' but in a slightly different version as the starter this year in the UK.

My favourite was when he used 'Just Arrived'. I loved that.

Sheila

[marvin]

Often Barry starts his shows with "It's A Miracle" and I's OK with that, as long as he does not do an encore of it at the end of the show, which is often the case in the arena shows. Given that Barry does not do a two act show anymore and he has so many songs to choose from, it really is a waste of time in a shorter concert to repeat songs he did earlier in the concert. Marvin

[qmcneal...@gmail.com]

I think it's done to create an effect of the show having "come full circle", Marvin. I am with you, though, I would prefer a different close.

[Brenda M]

Yep!

[Kittenmommy]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:01:43 PM UTC-5, Sheila wrote:
> He was using the 'right Here, Right Now' but in a slightly different version as the starter this year in the UK.

Wait a minute... *this*?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z6dxQVhE8o

[Maria Mikol]

No Kitten Mommy. I believe it is the Fatboy Slim song. http://youtu.be/ub747pprmJ8

[Brenda M]

Maria has the right one. :')

Brenda

[Kittenmommy]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:27:16 PM UTC-5, Maria Mikol wrote:
> No Kitten Mommy. I believe it is the Fatboy Slim song. http://youtu.be/ub747pprmJ8

What

[Kittenmommy]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:07:51 PM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:
> Maria has the right one. :')

Seriously??

You guys, my toucans.

[Kittenmommy]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:07:51 PM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:

> Maria has the right one. :')
>
> Brenda

PS, just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDIYvFmgW8

[pnk...@gmail.com]

I agree, Brenda. He has been helpful in the past. But lately it seems a lot of the references to Garry are more about baiting him to comment or reply as opposed to seriously asking for help or information. I don't know Garry but he doesn't seem like a man who can be manipulated to rise to the bait.
Like I said before, most of the recent questions could be easily answered by emailing or calling Stiletto Solutions.
It is nice to hear from him once in a while. :-)
Diane

[Brenda M]

Diane,

You make a valid point.

And ... sorry if my posts are perceived as "baiting" in any way.

That's really not my intention. I'm more about good-naturedly mocking anyone who feels he has to send in a proxy. Sheesh ... who are we anyway? We're just a bunch of fans talking to each other.

Anyway...

Have a good weekend, Diane!

Brenda

[Vicki]

Thank you SO much, Suzan !!

I'm just gathering information to try and make the best decision re: buying tickets. And now that I see they're $250+ per ... well. And, mea culpa, I should have done this info gathering before they went on sale not after. In that vein, I just called the Foxwoods box office. Tickets will go on sale there Monday Nov. 24, but here's the interesting part: 10 AM via phone, 11 AM in person. That, thankfully, throws the all-nighter at the BO out the window. (My back is eternally grateful.) I wonder if they're also going to use Live Nation/Ticketmaster as well?

And, FWIW, StubHub has Orch R seats for almost $600 per.

/Spock on Fascinating. /Spock off

Vicki

[pnk...@gmail.com]

I know your baiting isn't mean spirited, Brenda. You really seem to enjoy it when Garry posts here. And maybe poking fun at him is a way to get him to respond. Like I said, I don't know him so I don't know what pushes his buttons.

I'm going to disagree with the idea Gary has a proxy posting here. I've only been reading this group for 7 years, or so, so I don't know a lot about past activity. Maybe that's been something he (or Barry) have done in the past. But since I've been here they seem to be pretty honest about who from the Manilow camp is posting.
You have a good weekend too. Things are a little crazy in my world but that's the way it seems to be for a lot of people.
Diane

[Suzan]

> Thank you SO much, Suzan !!

Happy to help.

Stub hub, by definition, is re-sellers, so this far before the show date (and before any tickets have actually been mailed), it's all scalpers trying to make a profit. There can be good deals on Stub Hub, but not yet.

It's a little pricier to buy from the fan club, but not significantly (the $9.99 membership is good for the whole year), and there IS a big advantage to buying before the general public.

[Suzan]

> But since I've been here they seem to be pretty honest about who from the Manilow camp is posting.

I agree...he's posted under his own name before, so why use a proxy?

With all the negative comments that were posted about MDD, I think Garry is probably very wise to stay away from this group for awhile!

[Brenda M]

Suzan,

I believe he is using a proxy ( who is a pretty decent sort, I think, so that's good). And I believe G is probably avoiding this group because certain people (like me) post here. His attorney probably told him not to.

But .... that's just my opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone else, because it's one of those things you believe or don't. And if you don't, nobody will convince you otherwise. :-)

And in the end, who really cares?

It's not like Stiletto is protecting our national security or employing brain surgeons. They're just another entertainment company. In a hundred years, what they're doing won't be remembered.

Brenda

[dcsharon]

And don't forget the black baseball cap you get with your membership!

And, honestly, we could not be talking about him at all. At least here it's not like Facebook or the NING -- if someone doesn't like what you said, they can't delete the comments (much to their regret, I'm sure!)

It may not be all sunshine and rainbows ... but for the most part, it's honest and there's often a vibrant debate.

(DC) Sharon

[Suzan]

> From what I've been reading here, it sounds like they're playing some kind of crazy game of musical chairs with the seating charts. So, even logging onto the site and looking at the charts might not do her any good!

The biggest problem with the seating charts is that none of them are very complete. Every theater numbers the seats differently, so seat "1" may be fairly centered in one theater, way on the far, far right in another, and over on the far left behind the piano in a third. Also, only ONE of the 24 or so seating charts showed the ramp or walkway, and that one was removed, so none of them appear to be accurate. Worse, seating charts for FRM often didn't match those for the regular fan club seats for the same show!

The ramp/walkway is knocking out the whole center section, so those 100 or so really great seats in the center rows 1-5 are all gone, making the remaining number of "good" seats much smaller. It isn't a fan club thing; the same will apply to the seats via ticketmaster.

Of course some people are just happy to be in the same room and "breathe his air", but for those of use with triple-digit concerts under our belts, sitting in the upper balcony doesn't cut it.

[dcsharon]

And, all the Front Row Manilow auctions have closed? Does that mean everyone did the "buy it now" option and there's no FRM seats available?

I'm glad I wasn't buying tickets this go-around ... but honestly, others can make it so simple for their fans. Why can't the BMIFC?

(DC) Sharon

[Suzan]

I believe you have the option of purchasing a membership at the time of your order.

[Suzan]

> I believe he is using a proxy ( who is a pretty decent sort, I think, so that's good). And I believe G is probably avoiding this group because certain people (like me) post here. His attorney probably told him not to.

I expect he'll be back in time. With all the new concert announcements, ticket sales, new CD, and everything else going on, it's far more likely that he's just too busy right now than that he's avoiding certain posters or following legal counsel.

[HD]

On Friday, November 14, 2014 12:23:45 PM UTC-8, Suzan wrote:
> I believe you have the option of purchasing a membership at the time of your order.

Suzan - In order for me to see the ticket prices or even if seats were available, I would have had to first purchase a fan club membership. There was not the option of seeing what was available or the prices and then adding on the membership to the order. ... Last week, I could see prices and place tickets in my cart. On Monday I was unable to do this for my city of choice. Something changed within 1 week.

[Suzan]

> Suzan - In order for me to see the ticket prices or even if seats were available, I would have had to first purchase a fan club membership. There was not the option of seeing what was available or the prices and then adding on the membership to the order. ... Last week, I could see prices and place tickets in my cart. On Monday I was unable to do this for my city of choice. Something changed within 1 week.

Interesting. Yes, before we could submit our BMIFC number at the time of purchase, or add it to the cart; it wasn't required beforehand.

I see the color palate changed as well, so they're definitely making updates and changes to the site. Maybe they were trying to avoid scalpers? (If so, scalpers just buy BMIFC memberships, so it probably wouldn't help much.)

[dcsharon]

Someone said on Facebook that they were told they had to purchase the fan club membership 24 hours before their email would be valid.

I'm not sure if that's still 100% true, but I know some were having difficulty purchasing until their membership was active.

(DC) Sharon

[Maria Mikol]

I could not fet into the ticket site without rejoining. I did that two days ago and have not had a chance to go back in. I believe though, it said it would take 15 hrs until I could login to buy tickets.

Maria

[annielove...@gmail.com]

When I bought my tix it took 12 hours after joining the BMIFC before I was able to purchase, which is the time frame stated by the site.

But, forget about the tickets, I'm pretty stoked about getting the hat!!!!! : P
Annie

[Kittenmommy]

On Friday, November 14, 2014 2:58:38 PM UTC-5, Suzan wrote:
> > From what I've been reading here, it sounds like they're playing some kind of crazy game of musical chairs with the seating charts. So, even logging onto the site and looking at the charts might not do her any good!
>
> The biggest problem with the seating charts is that none of them are very complete. Every theater numbers the seats differently, so seat "1" may be fairly centered in one theater, way on the far, far right in another, and over on the far left behind the piano in a third. Also, only ONE of the 24 or so seating charts showed the ramp or walkway, and that one was removed, so none of them appear to be accurate. Worse, seating charts for FRM often didn't match those for the regular fan club seats for the same show!

My head hurts.

> The ramp/walkway is knocking out the whole center section,

Planning, guys. Planning. *shakes head*

> so those 100 or so really great seats in the center rows 1-5 are all gone, making the remaining number of "good" seats much smaller. It isn't a fan club thing; the same will apply to the seats via ticketmaster.

But TicketBastard comes with a whole other set of problems...

> Of course some people are just happy to be in the same room and "breathe his air", but for those of use with triple-digit concerts under our belts, sitting in the upper balcony doesn't cut it.

"Breathing his air"? LOL

I hope he doesn't have a cold...

[annielove...@gmail.com]

With all due respect, this is the sort of comment that brings the crazy to the world of Manilow fandom.

Like any corporate machine, Stiletto Entertainment is made up of very, very successful (AKA wealthy) businesspeople who I am quite sure do not give a flying fuck about fan groups such as this one.
Stiletto presents a product, in this case, Barry Manilow. Our role as fans is to either 1.) purchase said product, or 2.) not.

And as to fans who bitch and moan about not getting personal recognition, Mr Manilow himself owes nothing to the "long time fans" other than to give you what you paid for, be that a recording or a live performance. Once that product is delivered, it's over.
The idea that fans are owed personal favors or recognition in exchange for unwavering adoration is bullshit. To be crass, you already got what you paid for.

Which brings me to my last point, which is, there are plenty of people in this world who are willing to continue to purchase the Stiletto product. Pretty sure that Mr Kief isn't at all concerned about what one or even many fans have to say. Nobody here is so powerful as to pose the slightest "threat" to the Stiletto company, despite what some people evidently choose to believe. Nobody.

Annie

[starn...@gmail.com]

Uh-oh. Hope you're wearing your Kevlar underwear today.
CA Sharon

[Maria Mikol]

Annie- I have to tell you that you are wrong with some of what you said. Not all. I agree with a lot of it.

But the folks at Stiletto do care about what is said here. Remember, this is public. So when information is misrepresented & posted, there is a good chance you will hear about it either privately or on this newsgroup.

[Kittenmommy]

On Friday, November 14, 2014 2:53:36 PM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:

> Suzan,
>
> I believe he is using a proxy ( who is a pretty decent sort, I think, so that's good). And I believe G is probably avoiding this group because certain people (like me) post here. His attorney probably told him not to.

Whaaat...?

OMG, what kind of history do you and Garry have, anyway?? D:

[Kittenmommy]

On Friday, November 14, 2014 8:01:42 PM UTC-5, starn...@gmail.com wrote:

> Uh-oh. Hope you're wearing your Kevlar underwear today.

That might not cut it. Do they make Adamantium underwear???

[dcsharon]

> But, forget about the tickets, I'm pretty stoked about getting the hat!!!!! : P
> Annie

I wouldn't be. As a friend said, it's "junk".

A black 100% polyester baseball cap (it feels like parachute material) with a plastic plate (that is the new BMIFC logo) sewn on by a single thread. You can fold it up into a padded envelope, that's how flimsy it is. Mine is going into the donate pile. At least with the pen and tablet, I could use those!

PS - In one hundred years, the hat will still be around. We won't.

(DC) Sharon

[Brenda M]

Kittenmommy ...

How long you got? LOL!


Brenda

[Brenda M]

Annie,

I can't even be offended by some of what what you're saying, because there's a whole history of exchanges between members of this newsgroup and Barry's management that you know nothing about. And that's not your fault.

Peace out ...

Brenda

[Brenda M]

On Friday, November 14, 2014 8:56:28 PM UTC-5, dcsharon wrote:

>
> PS - In one hundred years, the hat will still be around. We won't.
>
> (DC) Sharon

ROFLMAO ... thanks for the howl of the day, Sharon! (Along with twinkies and cockroaches!)

Brenda

[marvin]

Like any corporate machine, Stiletto Entertainment is made up of very, very successful (AKA wealthy) business people who I am quite sure do not give a flying fuck about fan groups such as this one.

> Stiletto presents a product, in this case, Barry Manilow. Our role as fans is to either 1.) purchase said product, or 2.) not.
And as to fans who bitch and moan about not getting personal recognition, Mr Manilow himself owes nothing to the "long time fans" other than to give you what you paid for, be that a recording or a live performance. Once that product is delivered, it's over.
The idea that fans are owed personal favors or recognition in exchange for unwavering adoration is bullshit. To be crass, you already got what you paid for.
Which brings me to my last point, which is, there are plenty of people in this world who are willing to continue to purchase the Stiletto product. Pretty sure that Mr Kief isn't at all concerned about what one or even many fans have to say. Nobody here is so powerful as to pose the slightest "threat" to the Stiletto company, despite what some people evidently choose to believe. Nobody.
Annie

Dear Annie,
Even though what you wrote is possibly true, especially because Barry is in the rare echelon of having dates at arena shows for 40 years in which most younger artists would want to have for even a few years, I like to think that the old expression that Frank Sinatra coined that "you only owe the public a good performance and nothing else from yourself" is a very poor self-assessment of an artist, no matter how wealthy he/she is.
Truthfully, even if this is the attitude of Barry and the well off older artists, it comes across as condescending even if the facts do bear out that Barry and others will be forever famous and wealthy for the rest of their lives (I honestly think Barry will be famous for the rest of his life, even if he were to fully retire now).
People, customers, fans, whatever you choose to call them, like the human recognition just to know that the superstar artist at one time used to be at the same level as some of us. When Barry and Enoch Anderson wrote "15 Minutes", it was a story through music how an artist took his fans for granted and things got out of hand. We don't need to look how some rich and famous artists like Elvis, Amy Whitehorse, Whitney Houston and unfortunately many others went down the wrong road just by thinking that fame never ends and they don't owe anybody anything in life.
I say that as a cultural arts writer, to be a true professional artist, the artist must never ever lose sight of who put them there on top, no matter how many years you have been on the top and even if you never get off the mountain. The ones I admired the most are not necessarily the wealthiest, most commercial singers, but they all had a knack of showing the human recognition that people do need.
Barry I am sure has never forgotten that, considering how many artists he competed with back when he started being famous in 1974, that he is among the less than five percent that are still performing today. let alone doing arena shows. Bobby Goldsboro and Peter Frampton have become names from the past. Rita Coolidge, Toni Tenille, Melissa Manchester and Tony Orlando perform mainly in small venues and retirement communities today. By contrast, Barry is in a great spot for where he is, still a marquee headliner in major venues, especially because he is not in his prime years anymore.
I am not criticizing any artist for not being rich and famous, but for the ones who are on the top of the mountain, never ever take the fan for granted. As pointed out by posters, Dave Koz never takes his fans for granted and neither do any of the artists that no longer are marquee names in big venues anymore.
I hope I justifiably responded to you Annie and not to attack you in any way, but fan recognition has to be part of an artist's business. Marvin

[qmcneal...@gmail.com]

I am fine with what you write, Marvin. And, as usual, you write it well. But this cuts both ways. Elite musicians should not forget the fans; and fans should not assume an attitude of entitlement as though they are OWED more.

As Annie writes, fans aren't OWED anything besides the CD or the show. And, if they don't like a particular entertainer, they are free to support another whose conduct comports better with their tastes.

As you write, however, some truly elite entertainers have become beloved largely because of their positive interaction with fans.

If both sides appreciate each other, I bet they will meet harmoniously in the middle. :-)

[dcsharon]

Oh you can meet in the middle for a 4 digit price tag.

(DC) Sharon

[starn...@gmail.com]

I think it all depends on which definition of "owe" that you use. If you go by the one that says "have an obligation to repay something (money ) in return for something received", then no, Manilow doesn't owe the fans. If you go by "be indebted to someone for something" or "have something because of someone", then, I say, yeah, he owes his longtime fans. The question is, what?

I'm a writer. I am eternally grateful for the dozen or so loyal readers who buy my books, read them, and leave good reviews. If, by some miracle, I were to be come famous, and have a ton of money and be a household name, I make a promise right now that I would never forget any of them. Because I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if it weren't for the 'fans' supporting me now, I'd never get anywhere. No amount of talent or skill will bring success if no one is buying.

Manilow "owes" his longtime fans respect. He is indebted to them for his success and he should acknowledge that, and not just in a pretty speech from stage. Perhaps dig through the fan club registration files and find a fan from the early days and offer them a backstage visit when Barry performs in their town. If that's too personal, how about a note of gratitude, or a ticket to the show (and not a cheap rafters ticket, either). I can identify half a dozen longtime fans just from this newsgroup, and I'm sure there are more. There are plenty of ways nowadays to identify and vet people, so there's no excuse.

If you've been a fan for forty years, bought the tickets, albums, t-shirts, memberships, coffee mugs, calendars, etc, etc, you should be acknowledged. Loyalty should be worth something.
JMHO,
CA Sharon

[marvin]

Truthfully, my experience with artists is that most will meet in the middle of the road between either always being engaging with fans or ignoring them when you are done performing.
I have found most people at shows (believe it or not) are happy to go home and don't feel the need to meet the artist once the show is over. They like the artist, but either feel a little bit embarrassed to say hello to someone they know is not a personal friend or may like the artist for the music and not anything else. My lady friend adores Neil Diamond music,goes to his shows with me, but does not care for his private life divorcing two wives, so she chooses not to meet him, even if Neil was open to meeting us, but I don't bother to try, because I know how she feels about him.
I imagine there are many Barry fans that may enjoy the shows, but don't really care to meet him or anything else regarding a personal encounter. So, unless I am very wrong and you think 10,000 people at a concert will turn into 10,000 people waiting to say hello to Barry after shows, it seems that Barry can be more accommodating regarding fans meeting him backstage. Marvin

[Kittenmommy]

On Saturday, November 15, 2014 10:42:14 AM UTC-5, dcsharon wrote:
> Oh you can meet in the middle for a 4 digit price tag.
>
> (DC) Sharon

Ahhhh, milk out the nose. I need to stop reading this ng when I'm drinking/eating!

[Kittenmommy]

On Friday, November 14, 2014 11:51:50 PM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:
> Kittenmommy ...
>
> How long you got? LOL!

Oh, this sounds juicy! I've got as long as it takes, LOL! :D

[Brenda M]

Perfectly said, Sharon.

May I just add...


If the fans are owed nothing more than what their money will buy them, then the reverse is also true ... the celebrity is owed nothing more than the money those fans are willing to pay.

Meaning ... both sides can be as rude, obnoxious, fake, disloyal or any number of unpleasant things ... within the boundaries of the law ... as long as the buying/selling is legit.

To me, that sounds pretty cold and heartless.

But Quinncy ( Garry), that's what your side advocates ... with one change. The fans ARE expected to go beyond what is "owed" We should also not be rude, obnoxious, etc. We should say nothing of Barry in public that isn't constant praise and adoration.

We should be nice at all times, and give our love and loyalty unconditionally.

If we don't do all that, we should "go away", plain and simple.

But Barry? He still "owes" nothing more to his fans than what our money will buy?
What kind of a bullshit one-sided deal is that?

And can you see why this one-sided deal ... um, doesn't work?

Fans either speak up about it ... as many of us have and will do now and again ...

Or leave in disgust, taking their money with them. And that is pretty bad for the bottom line.

Why can't Barry and his management understand this? It has to go both ways in order to work. Both sides win... or both sides lose.

Lots of other celebrities have figured this out. Why does Barry foolishly and willfully continue to disregard/misunderstand it?

Does he choose to do that on his own?
Do his handlers advise him to do this?
Or both?

Brenda

[qmcneal...@gmail.com]

Brenda... I don't understand your post. All humans owe each other respect. That means not being obnoxious or rude. And I like to follow the "Golden Rule" regarding paying respect to each other; which advocates that we do unto others as we would have done to ourselves. So Barry should not be rude (or hire people who are consistently rude with fans) nor should we be rude to him. No one is charged with the responsibility of singing the praises of the others, technically. Or even speaking kindly about the other.

Of course I don't think Barry has this problem. I think he is legitimate in his praise and appreciation of his fans... But even if he weren't...

Even if you could demonstrate that Barry has little regard for his fans and is genuinely rude --- which, again, I do not think is true -- your continued support of him belies that point. (I believe you have already mentioned that you bought tickets to the last tour and plan to buy tickets to this one).

Why would you support a person like that? I will tell you that if I believed what you are saying is true, I would run. I wouldn't care how well someone sings a timeless tune, entertains, interprets a note, crawls into a lyric or belts a power ballad. I would be done.

If what you say is true, you would speak loudest with your actions.

[Brenda M]

Because it's not that black and white.

I know I'm wasting my time, but I'll try ...

First, Barry is an artist. I still love his music (the stuff that bleeds out of his soul, not these crappy assignments he gets from clueless recording execs). If the guy were a total bastard ( which I don't think he is), I'd still think "Some Bar By The Harbor" was the greatest song in the history of forever.

Second, he can't sully my memories. I have some amazing memories of him from a time when he didn't seem to despise some of us.

And third, there's our community, including the one we have here. I'm willing to put up with his management's garbage because I have friends here whose value in my life far exceeds the irritation caused by their bullshit.

So .. here I will stay. Still loving the music, even while shaking my head at the antics of a few good ... albeit spoiled ... people expect want the most in exchange for the least.

But ... I'm not surprised you don't understand. I wasted years trying to explain all this to Kief. He chose to be ... and still chooses ... to be dense about this, because he can't see how it benefits himself or Barry to be otherwise.

JMHO.

Brenda

[Brenda M]

"People WHO want/expect the most in exchange for the least" ... sorry about the "dumb" phone typo.

Brenda

[qmcneal...@gmail.com]

I don't understand because it makes no sense --to me. If someone is rude or dismissive or disrespectful to me, I leave. They are expressing their value for me in their actions and I will only foolishly reinforce to them that it's ok to be that way if I stay.

It doesn't matter how much I love the music or the memories. By now you could have made scores more with an entertainer you respect and who respects you. And your "community" point is entirely lost on me. I didn't ask you why you continue to come here and speak to friends, I ask why you SUPPORT him, i.e., buy CDs or go to shows. I understand you have made lasting friendships here and likely will always come back. It's the people here; that's why you return. I believe that. But you will always have the community - it's only mouse clicks away..

I asked why you purchase stuff? Do you really enjoy supporting someone who does not like you?

Brenda, anybody who is truly disrespected or dismissed needs to walk away --- if you don't you tacitly express approval of the behavior of which you complain (so much).

[Brenda M]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 9:57:15 AM UTC-5, qmcneal...@gmail.com wrote:
> I don't understand because it makes no sense --to me.

Okay, then let's break it down.

>If someone is rude or dismissive or disrespectful to me, I leave.

No, you don't. What if it's a good friend or a family member ... someone you truly care about? Do you automatically leave when they're unpleasant to you? No ... you:

a) Pick up the phone and ask, "Why are you being such an ass"?
or
b) You sit down with that person and say, "Why are you being such an ass?"
or
c) You reach out to that person and say, "Hey, where is this coming from? Did I do something to offend you? Maybe we should talk about it."

You can't just automatically "leave" everybody who doesn't treat you perfectly every single time in this life ... if you did, you'd eventually need a spacecraft to transport you off this earth entirely.

> They are expressing their value for me in their actions and I will only foolishly reinforce to them that it's ok to be that way if I stay.

Wrong. Sometimes reacting negatively to someone's poor behavior is reinforcing that behavior, because then they know they have the power to influence your behavior if, in fact, you do leave. However, if you keep right on doing what you're doing, then they know their poor behavior influences nothing, thereby rendering them powerless over you.

>
> It doesn't matter how much I love the music or the memories. By now you could have made scores more with an entertainer you respect and who respects you.

I could have made "scores more" ... what are you talking about? "Scores more" of what? That I'm in this to make something? You really don't understand, do you?

> And your "community" point is entirely lost on me. I didn't ask you why you continue to come here and speak to friends, I ask why you SUPPORT him, i.e., buy CDs or go to shows.

Sorry I misunderstood you. Well, then, I believe the first paragraph in my original response clearly answers that question.

>
> I asked why you purchase stuff? Do you really enjoy supporting someone who does not like you?

I would obviously prefer he did like me ... and I think he would, if he truly knew me, which he doesn't. But if you only support people who are nice to you, what is that support honestly worth? I think the fact that he doesn't like me ... and yet I continue to support his contributions to the world of music ... makes a statement truly worth listening to.

>
> Brenda, anybody who is truly disrespected or dismissed needs to walk away --- if you don't you tacitly express approval of the behavior of which you complain (so much).

So .. what you're saying is that anyone who is bullied should always walk away? And that if I don't leave, I'm somehow reinforcing the effectiveness of their bullying?

That REALLY doesn't make any sense.

And ... I'm not walking away until I'm dead. Sorry, Barry. Sorry, Garry. These boys just need to live with it.


Brenda

[qmcneal...@gmail.com]

Ok. There are not enough hours in the day to express all the ways that I disagree with that entirely inapplicable post. Let me just say this:

I think you should stop supporting him if you feel as you do. Things might change if the fans who feel as you did just that.

To me you have in your hands the power to make this disrespectfulness go away, but you choose to stay in the bad relationship.

More power to you.

[Brenda M]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 10:51:52 AM UTC-5, qmcneal...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ok. There are not enough hours in the day to express all the ways that I disagree with that entirely inapplicable post.

You're just deliberately being dense ... oops, watch out, your "Kief" is showing!

Let me just say this:
>
> I think you should stop supporting him if you feel as you do. Things might change if the fans who feel as you did just that.

Nope ... nothing would change. Many fans HAVE left, and nothing has changed. It's only gotten worse. All I'd be doing, by leaving, is denying myself some great music and great times with great friends. So, whether he wants me to or not, I'm gonna go right on supporting him. :-)

>
> To me you have in your hands the power to make this disrespectfulness go away, but you choose to stay in the bad relationship.
>
> More power to you.

I hope Barry and Garry take your suggestion; you might have better luck selling your argument to them. Because, if they feel disrespected by anything that's said here on this newsgroup, why do they keep coming back and staying, as you put it, "in a bad relationship"?

Goose, gander and have a good day.


Brenda

[qmcneal...@gmail.com]

Brenda - you are conflating issues. To be clear, all I am saying is you should stop supporting him by buying his music/going to shows. Not leave. Where would you go? I am not saying you should leave your friends or stop playing music you have already bought or watching the DVDs or VHS recordings previously purchased. By stop supporting him, I don't mean stop coming here.

I mean stop buying stuff. That was the crux of my suggestion.

I understand all the reasons you mentioned for not "leaving". But here's another reason why I think you keep supporting him:

He is actually not disrespect to his fans. Perhaps their are moments when he could do things differently. But this is not a pattern.

Perhaps we'll agree to disagree.

Happy Sunday. Have a Bloody Mary. I make the best!

[KM]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 3:39:03 PM UTC, Brenda M wrote:
> On Sunday, November 16, 2014 9:57:15 AM UTC-5, qmcneal...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I don't understand because it makes no sense --to me.
>
> Okay, then let's break it down.
>
> >If someone is rude or dismissive or disrespectful to me, I leave.
>
> No, you don't. What if it's a good friend or a family member ... someone you truly care about? Do you automatically leave when they're unpleasant to you? No ... you:
>
> a) Pick up the phone and ask, "Why are you being such an ass"?
> or
> b) You sit down with that person and say, "Why are you being such an ass?"
> or
> c) You reach out to that person and say, "Hey, where is this coming from? Did I do something to offend you? Maybe we should talk about it."
>
> You can't just automatically "leave" everybody who doesn't treat you perfectly every single time in this life ... if you did, you'd eventually need a spacecraft to transport you off this earth entirely.
>
>
> > They are expressing their value for me in their actions and I will only foolishly reinforce to them that it's ok to be that way if I stay.
>
>
> Wrong. Sometimes reacting negatively to someone's poor behavior is reinforcing that behavior, because then they know they have the power to influence your behavior if, in fact, you do leave. However, if you keep right on doing what you're doing, then they know their poor behavior influences nothing, thereby rendering them powerless over you.
>
>
> >
> > It doesn't matter how much I love the music or the memories. By now you could have made scores more with an entertainer you respect and who respects you.
>
> I could have made "scores more" ... what are you talking about? "Scores more" of what? That I'm in this to make something? You really don't understand, do you?
>
>
> > And your "community" point is entirely lost on me. I didn't ask you why you continue to come here and speak to friends, I ask why you SUPPORT him, i.e., buy CDs or go to shows.
>
>
> Sorry I misunderstood you. Well, then, I believe the first paragraph in my original response clearly answers that question.
>
>
>
> >
> > I asked why you purchase stuff? Do you really enjoy supporting someone who does not like you?
>
>
> I would obviously prefer he did like me ... and I think he would, if he truly knew me, which he doesn't. But if you only support people who are nice to you, what is that support honestly worth? I think the fact that he doesn't like me ... and yet I continue to support his contributions to the world of music ... makes a statement truly worth listening to.

Says more about you as the decent person you are Brenda IMO.

[KM]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 4:30:20 PM UTC, qmcneal...@gmail.com wrote:
> Brenda - you are conflating issues. To be clear, all I am saying is you should stop supporting him by buying his music/going to shows. Not leave. Where would you go? I am not saying you should leave your friends or stop playing music you have already bought or watching the DVDs or VHS recordings previously purchased. By stop supporting him, I don't mean stop coming here.
>
> I mean stop buying stuff. That was the crux of my suggestion.
>
> I understand all the reasons you mentioned for not "leaving". But here's another reason why I think you keep supporting him:
>
> He is actually not disrespect to his fans. Perhaps their are moments when he could do things differently. But this is not a pattern.

And add to this also, some of his entourage could have done things differently too !

[starn...@gmail.com]

Remember that scene in "You've Got Mail" where Greg Kinnear tells Meg Ryan she's a lone reed? That's me. And if Brenda were to take your suggestion, it would be her. Individually, we make no difference. There will always be a new fan, a younger fan, a fan whose rose-colored glasses are still sparkly and new, to buy the CD, the ticket, the bullshit. We know in our hearts that nothing will change, because nothing HAS changed. I think Brenda, Suzan, DC Sharon, etc. and I know that it's been this way pretty much since the advent of the internet, when suddenly the curtains were pulled aside and the mystique went away. Oh, there were signs all along...there are stories of trashed dressing rooms and chance encounters in airports and restaurants. I've pretty much stopped buying anything Manilow...I did buy MDD but honestly, it was only for the bonus CD. I won't be buying any concert tickets. But even I know, my small defection won't hurt his bottom line.

The point Brenda was trying to make is that being a kinder, friendlier, more accessible STAR wouldn't kill him, and might just renew the faith of the disillusioned among us.
and that's priceless.
CA Sharon

[Scooter]

starn...@gmail.com wrote:

> Remember that scene in "You've Got Mail" where Greg Kinnear tells Meg
> Ryan she's a lone reed? That's me. And if Brenda were to take your
> suggestion, it would be her. Individually, we make no difference.
> There will always be a new fan, a younger fan, a fan whose
> rose-colored glasses are still sparkly and new, to buy the CD, the
> ticket, the bullshit. We know in our hearts that nothing will change,
> because nothing HAS changed. I think Brenda, Suzan, DC Sharon, etc.
> and I know that it's been this way pretty much since the advent of the
> internet, when suddenly the curtains were pulled aside and the
> mystique went away. Oh, there were signs all along...there are stories
> of trashed dressing rooms and chance encounters in airports and
> restaurants. I've pretty much stopped buying anything Manilow...I did
> buy MDD but honestly, it was only for the bonus CD. I won't be buying
> any concert tickets. But even I know, my small defection won't hurt
> his bottom line.
>
> The point Brenda was trying to make is that being a kinder,
> friendlier, more accessible STAR wouldn't kill him, and might just
> renew the faith of the disillusioned among us. and that's priceless.
> CA Sharon

If there were an image to illustrate the point, perhaps it should be one
... small ... sticky note.

Scooter

[Kittenmommy]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 8:06:42 AM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:
>
> But Quinncy ( Garry), that's what your side advocates ... with one change. The fans ARE expected to go beyond what is "owed" We should also not be rude, obnoxious, etc. We should say nothing of Barry in public that isn't constant praise and adoration.
>
> We should be nice at all times, and give our love and loyalty unconditionally.

And your money. Buy as many copies of My Dead Duets as possible!

> If we don't do all that, we should "go away", plain and simple.

No. *After* you've done all that, *then* you should just go away.

> But Barry? He still "owes" nothing more to his fans than what our money will buy?
> What kind of a bullshit one-sided deal is that?
>
> And can you see why this one-sided deal ... um, doesn't work?
>
> Fans either speak up about it ... as many of us have and will do now and again ...
>
> Or leave in disgust, taking their money with them. And that is pretty bad for the bottom line.
>
> Why can't Barry and his management understand this? It has to go both ways in order to work. Both sides win... or both sides lose.
>
> Lots of other celebrities have figured this out. Why does Barry foolishly and willfully continue to disregard/misunderstand it?
>
> Does he choose to do that on his own?
> Do his handlers advise him to do this?
> Or both?

It's truly a mystery. I mean, he seems like a pretty sharp guy. *Garry* also seems like a pretty sharp guy. Granted, I've never actually met either of them, but I'd think that between the two of them, they'd be able to figure this out on their own!

[Kittenmommy]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 9:57:15 AM UTC-5, qmcneal...@gmail.com wrote:

> I don't understand because it makes no sense --to me. If someone is rude or dismissive or disrespectful to me, I leave. They are expressing their value for me in their actions and I will only foolishly reinforce to them that it's ok to be that way if I stay.

Yeah, I mean... if it were me, I'd have told the two of them (Barry and Garry) to Fuck Right Off *years* ago. My money would be better spent elsewhere.

> It doesn't matter how much I love the music or the memories. By now you could have made scores more with an entertainer you respect and who respects you. And your "community" point is entirely lost on me. I didn't ask you why you continue to come here and speak to friends, I ask why you SUPPORT him, i.e., buy CDs or go to shows. I understand you have made lasting friendships here and likely will always come back. It's the people here; that's why you return. I believe that. But you will always have the community - it's only mouse clicks away..
>
> I asked why you purchase stuff? Do you really enjoy supporting someone who does not like you?

I have to say, these are very good points.

And if this were my fandom... well, it wouldn't be my fandom anymore, probably. Because if you continue to treat me like shit, I'm going to leave and take my money somewhere else.

> Brenda, anybody who is truly disrespected or dismissed needs to walk away --- if you don't you tacitly express approval of the behavior of which you complain (so much).

Positive reinforcement!

[Brenda M]

Quinncy,

I just can't make it any clearer than I have.

I'm going to go right on buying CDs and going to shows.

(And sharing my reviews here on the ng and elsewhere.)

And Barry will likely go right on doing exactly what he does ... taking his diehard fans for granted.

So nothing will have changed.

Enjoy your bloody mary!


Brenda

[Brenda M]

Thank you, Karen. I appreciate that.

:-)

Brenda

[Kittenmommy]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 10:39:03 AM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:
> On Sunday, November 16, 2014 9:57:15 AM UTC-5, qmcneal...@gmail.com wrote:

> >If someone is rude or dismissive or disrespectful to me, I leave.
>
> No, you don't. What if it's a good friend or a family member ... someone you truly care about? Do you automatically leave when they're unpleasant to you? No ... you:
>
> a) Pick up the phone and ask, "Why are you being such an ass"?
> or
> b) You sit down with that person and say, "Why are you being such an ass?"
> or
> c) You reach out to that person and say, "Hey, where is this coming from? Did I do something to offend you? Maybe we should talk about it."

It seems like you've done all that? I mean, you said that you've e mailed Garry/posted to Garry countless times and have never gotten any sort of sufficient answer.

> You can't just automatically "leave" everybody who doesn't treat you perfectly every single time in this life ... if you did, you'd eventually need a spacecraft to transport you off this earth entirely.

But if someone systematically treats you poorly over the span of several years and shows no sign of stopping (or even *caring*), why stay?

>
> > They are expressing their value for me in their actions and I will only foolishly reinforce to them that it's ok to be that way if I stay.
>
>
> Wrong. Sometimes reacting negatively to someone's poor behavior is reinforcing that behavior, because then they know they have the power to influence your behavior if, in fact, you do leave. However, if you keep right on doing what you're doing, then they know their poor behavior influences nothing, thereby rendering them powerless over you.

You know what's so great about banging your head repeatedly against a brick wall? It feels *so good* when you finally *stop*!

> > I asked why you purchase stuff? Do you really enjoy supporting someone who does not like you?
>
>
> I would obviously prefer he did like me ... and I think he would, if he truly knew me, which he doesn't.

It seems like lots of fans think this...

>But if you only support people who are nice to you, what is that support honestly worth? I think the fact that he doesn't like me ... and yet I continue to support his contributions to the world of music ... makes a statement truly worth listening to.

Imagine if I came on here and said that my husband constantly emotionally abuses me, and he's been doing it for twenty years now. I've tried talking with him, I've tried to convince him to go to counseling, I've tried *everything*, but he *just won't stop*.

What would you advise me to do?

> >
> > Brenda, anybody who is truly disrespected or dismissed needs to walk away --- if you don't you tacitly express approval of the behavior of which you complain (so much).
>
> So .. what you're saying is that anyone who is bullied should always walk away? And that if I don't leave, I'm somehow reinforcing the effectiveness of their bullying?
>
> That REALLY doesn't make any sense.

I don't understand *why* you stay, honestly.

> And ... I'm not walking away until I'm dead. Sorry, Barry. Sorry, Garry. These boys just need to live with it.

OK, you know what? This is really, really strange. I just can't fathom the thought process here. And honestly? Reading that made me think of that movie where whatshername boiled that bunny: "I won't be *ignored*!".

[Kittenmommy]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 12:08:03 PM UTC-5, Scooter wrote:

> If there were an image to illustrate the point, perhaps it should be one
> ... small ... sticky note.

*zing*!

[starn...@gmail.com]

Scooter,
Actually, it was two. One on my seat and one on my friends. See, they didn't know exactly where I was sitting. :-)
CA Sharon

[Brenda M]

Wow ... you think I'm Glenn Close?

But ... I like bunnies! :-)

No ... if I were constantly phoning Stiletto or stalking B/G's house or moving to Palm Springs, maybe the crazy analogy would work. But it doesn't. I was posting here and elsewhere long before certain individuals tried to barge in and shut me up.

I post here because it relaxes me. And I love the music, so I will continue to be a customer and buy stuff.

That's not crazy.
That's just a choice.

And if Barry and Garry (and their Quinncys) were to ever go away, I'd still be here. I don't write stuff here for their benefit as much as my own.

I think the same could be said of all of us old timers.

KittenMommy, if we ever meet up in person, I have a box of emails I could show you ... and then you'd probably have a better understanding of what's going on here.

But in the meantime, if you're determined to consider me crazy, I can't change that. Think what you will.

Brenda

P.S. Good luck with your fan fiction!

[Brenda M]

So ... in essence ... they were stalking you, Sharon. And all because they didn't like the show reviews you posted here on the ng)

( You know, you've got a great idea for a book staring you in the face, kid!)

Well, hope they don't care what I write about the shows...

Because they will have no clue where I'm sitting in Cleveland. :-)

Brenda

[starn...@gmail.com]

Brenda,
That's why, if I ever DO go to another show, I'm buying my ticket at the last minute, with cash. And yes, I've thought about using that theme in a book but it brings back some pretty painful memories.
CA Sharon

[Kittenmommy]

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 12:41:03 PM UTC-5, Brenda M wrote:
> Wow ... you think I'm Glenn Close?

LOL

> But ... I like bunnies! :-)

http://www.dailybunny.com

> No ... if I were constantly phoning Stiletto or stalking B/G's house or moving to Palm Springs, maybe the crazy analogy would work. But it doesn't. I was posting here and elsewhere long before certain individuals tried to barge in and shut me up.

I actually don't think you're crazy. What you wrote *sounded* a bit crazy, but that doesn't make *you* crazy!

> I post here because it relaxes me. And I love the music, so I will continue to be a customer and buy stuff.
>
> That's not crazy.
> That's just a choice.

It's your money!

> And if Barry and Garry (and their Quinncys) were to ever go away, I'd still be here. I don't write stuff here for their benefit as much as my own.

They flatter themselves, IOW.

> I think the same could be said of all of us old timers.

Probably!

> KittenMommy, if we ever meet up in person, I have a box of emails I could show you ... and then you'd probably have a better understanding of what's going on here.

Oh, no doubt!

> But in the meantime, if you're determined to consider me crazy, I can't change that. Think what you will.

I really don't think you're crazy, LOL!

> Brenda
>
> P.S. Good luck with your fan fiction!

Why thank you! It's chugging along!

[annielove...@gmail.com]

I think Mr M's blessing, and his curse, is his ability to convey a deep emotional intimacy through his voice and lyrics. Listening to his ballads, you feel a connection to him. That's a blessing because it's made him a superstar. But it's also a curse because it spawns a whole segment of fans who believe that they have a true emotional connection with him. The feelings he arouses (Ha!) seem genuine, but here's the thing - they are not. But I think this ability to tap into our deep emotions leads some fans to try to validate a relationship that they believe they have with him.

In a sense, he's a golem and we each can assign whatever traits to him that meet our needs. I think it's brilliant of him to keep his personal life shrouded in mystery because that only adds to the tendency of certain fans to project their own desires and unmet needs onto him. He's the perfect romantic guy and he's there for us whenever we want. And I, for one, have enjoyed that for many years. And it keeps fans coming back.

The slippery slope is that some fans become obsessed ("He'd like me if he really knew me..." or "he owes me because I've given so much to him"), even going so far as to believe that he (or his "proxy") takes a personal interest in us, because at least that's a connection to him, right?

Which brings me back to my original point, which is, reality check: he's just doing his job. He's a performer, and his "schtick" is the heartfelt ballad that gets all us ladies, and many guys too I'm sure, going. Make no mistake, I adore him as much as the next fan, but it's important to keep in mind that he has his life, we each have ours, there's no real emotional connection there. Never will be.

[Brenda M]

Annie,

I think most of your post was brilliant.

But what you don't get is that those of us here who have had numerous interactions with Garry Kief ( who is closer to Manilow than any other human alive) didn't fantasize them. We didn't imagine them. We lived them ... and they span DECADES.

Whether it's post-it notes on the back of a chair or hurtful words exchanged in numerous emails, those of us here who've been around awhile know ... KNOW ... that Barry obsesses about what we say here. And Garry cares because Barry does.

And it's strange, because we don't affect his bottom line. At all. How could we? We're just a few fans talking amongst ourselves. We have zero influence over what other people do with their money. So you'd think they'd have better uses for their time, right?

So ... why DO they waste time monitoring this newsgroup like they do? Can you explain that, Annie?

I say all this because what you wrote SHOULD BE the way it is. It should just be strictly business to them, and what we say should be entirely irrelevant. But it's not. Why?

I know you desperately want to think I'm that fan "sitting in yellow down front", but you'd be wrong. I know I am not in a relationship with Barry Manilow ... but I know FOR A FACT that I am disliked by him and his people because of some of what I write here. Mr. Kief (or whoever was using his email address at the time) took a lot of time and trouble to try to influence what I write here.

So for me to make a statement about Barry: "He'd like me if he knew me" ... is wishful thinking, sure, but underscores the reality that Barry and Garry form opinions of people here solely based on how they post. They don't know us, yet think they do.

How is that more sane than some fan somewhere thinking Barry must be a saint because of how he sings a song?

So my point?

If I'm crazy ...
Then they are even more so.

I think you're really intelligent. I hope you keep posting here. But I wish you would refrain from judging people like myself ... people who have lived the often bizarre history of this newsgroup and its interactions with Barry's management... mostly a history of which you are entirely ignorant.

And you're lucky to be so. :-)

Brenda

[dcsharon]

I have to disagree to a a point. Yes, it is his job. He owes no more than a concert ticket. You're absolutely right.

But (and here's where it gets dicey). He and his minions have played games with the fans for years.

He/his company publishes a calendar of FAN PHOTOS ... and they have to buy the calendar to see the final product.

I can't tell you how many more copies of 15 Minutes I bought because there was a chance to win show tickets or an autograph. There was no such offer for MDD, but if there was, he might have had a #1 record. But since there was a connection to him through an autograph or show tickets, we bought way more copies than we ever needed ... just to try and win something.

So -- although "he's just doing his job" he knows that there's enough emotional investment that some people would walk through fire if he were on the other end. Those fan photos are gorgeous. Lulu, who's photos are some of the best I've ever seen can capture Barry in a way no professional photographer has a chance at getting. So, they ask the fans to submit photos and they do. Do I blame the BMIFC for using the photos? No. But thanks is a two-way street.

I don't think the desire to meet him has ever waned. When we were in our 20's, my friends and I wondered where Barry would be in his 70's? State fair circuit? Great. We'd be there ... and (gasp!) maybe we'd get to meet him!

But if you're going to meet him now, you're PAYING for that privilege. Personally, my Manilow bank account has hit its limit.

As I mentioned before, my friends saw him crossing the street towards them a few weeks ago in LA. They didn't even dare speak to him, for fear of being turned into pillars of salt. It's a shame the fans are so fearful of him and incurring his wrath.

He really should be thanking us ... the people who are/were dedicated and have purchased every album (and multiple copies (Hi Maria, Suzan, Sharon and others who said they bought both QVC, and multiple copies of the CD and even vinyl).

Thanks go both ways.

(DC) Sharon

[marvin]

Whether it's post-it notes on the back of a chair or hurtful words exchanged in numerous emails, those of us here who've been around awhile know ... KNOW ... that Barry obsesses about what we say here. And Garry cares because Barry does.
And it's strange, because we don't affect his bottom line. At all. How could we? We're just a few fans talking amongst ourselves. We have zero influence over what other people do with their money. So you'd think they'd have better uses for their time, right?
So ... why DO they waste time monitoring this newsgroup like they do? Can you explain that, Annie?

I say all this because what you wrote SHOULD BE the way it is. It should just be strictly business to them, and what we say should be entirely irrelevant. But it's not. Why? Brenda

Brenda, I think TPTB think of the 150-200 posters here as a sample of interest because we freely express our opinions as opposed to the Barrynet and many other Barrynet groups, so our group is more important to them despite the small number of posters. Every artist needs to get feedback from fans on what is right and wrong with what they are doing.
We have freely expressed opinions and discussions about Barry's music, concerts, and everything else concerning his career. TPTB wanted to monitor all this, because even those they would have liked to censor some of us, they also listened to our complaints and changed things about Barry's concerts and music maybe because of us.
For example, I recall some of us posting that we did not like Barry introducing the audience at concerts as the Justin Bieber of the 1970s so TPTB then changed the introduction omitting the Bieber reference. We also complained that we were tired of the opening medley of Daybreak, Somewhere In The Night and This One's For You, so that was changed as well.
I don't want to flatter ourselves in thinking that our group of posters was the ONLY factor influencing some changes to Barry's concerts. But I do think they are listening to us. Barry won't get honest feedback from the Barrynet, his musicians, his friends, or others close to him simply because they are close to him- so maybe Barry comes here when he wants to learn of any criticism.
So, Brenda, I think it is for the honest criticism that brings Barry here, even if never admitted by TPTB because he may on some occasions think what we have to offer in terms of criticism is worth his while to hear. Marvin

[beanz]

It's not Barry that's the big bully boy. Why should people not support Barry and the work that he does, whether it be a bad CD or a good CD? It's a person's option what they want to buy.

Barry's been with Kief too long. At this stage of the game he isn't going to fire him or walk away. Obviously with the Verve thing, Stilleto isn't capable of handling all aspects of a recording artist, other than set up show dates and do a little typing and filing. ;O)

On the other side of things it seems Kief is leaving what is left of Barry's fans on MMN. The few that are actually there and posting are posting what is expected of them, not necessarily want they "really" might want to.

Australia has been a graveyard for ages. Once when they had the UK site open it seems pretty dead there too with the moderator being the one posting.

It's just pretty sad one has to be Manilow taxed $10 and being forced to be a part of it all just to have a membership number to buy tickets. That's shabby. Then there's the $30 and isn't there another on top of that?

They've gone to bullying money out of your wallet.

[beanz]

I want to add this also, where else is it that you are going to see views ranging from a few to over a thousand and people posting what they truly think or feel and is active on a day to day basis? This is the only place I know of.

[annielove...@gmail.com]

I *know* I'm gonna regret this, but I have to ask - what's the deal with the sticky note on your seat?

Is it anything like my Mama's ladies club luncheons in which if you find a penny under your plate you get to take the flowers home from the table?

What does it mean to find a sticky note on your seat????

Annie