Barry's personal team

[IreneH]

On the same page as that lovely video of Malia singing is a video of
Barry's last night at The Paris where he is bringing everyone on
stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we4Zg_BLZ8E&feature=related

Near the end he introduces 'his personal team' of Garry, Marc and
another name I didn't catch - who is this please? Also he says 'These
are the people who.......? which I also missed. Anyone help?
Irene

[KJM]

Thank you posting this Irene, what a lovely closing ceremony. I have
listened so hard to try to catch the name after Marc, but no cannot
catch it...but a guess Aarron? But I think Barry says These are the
people who....'I cannot do without'. How lovely to see them all all
dressed up, I bet the atmosphere was highly charged that evening.

[IreneH]

Thank you. However I have been reprimanded for posting this video so
it is back to lurking.

[bookworm]

> it is back to lurking.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You were more than likely reprimanded because this video is a no no.
NONE of the show is allowed to be taped and the BMIFC may go after
this person and remove the video. It's not your fault this person
chose to disobey the rules. Some people just don't give a damn and
think rules were made for everyone else but them.

[Suzan]

> Near the end he introduces 'his personal team' of Garry, Marc and
> another name I didn't catch - who is this please?

It's Adam (Kief). He's Garry's nephew and has been working with
Stiletto for several years. I can remember doing some impromptu
babysitting, helping "Kate" to keep him and his brother from being
underfoot at some of the early conventions when they were just little
kids. Now he's a grown-up young man. Egad, I'm getting old! LOL

[KJM]

You know I didnt even think about this being a no no, as I watched
it. Is this just in relation to LV

[KJM]

On Jan 4, 3:27 pm, Suzan <suzan.obe...@gmail.com> wrote:

You know what, I did not even think about this being a 'no no' whilst
watching it, and I bet you didnt either Irene, rules are rules as they
say. However, does this relate to just LV show, or applicable to all
Manilow shows, I ask, simply because there are hundreds of You Tube
vids of shows etc including recent ones at 02 in London, should they
not be removed, as I suspect this clip will be? It seems to me that
one would need to employ a full time person just to warn off people
who do break the rules and pop videos on You Tube.

[IreneH]

> think rules were made for everyone else but them.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Just to make it clear. I was not reprimanded by Garry or TPTB (at
least not yet!). Rest assured I won't do it again. I hope this video
is not pulled because of me, as it shows Barry in such a good light.

[bookworm]

This is in regard to ALL Manilow shows. He is copyrighted and many
videos have been removed from You Tube already. We've all been told by
Garry and the BMIFC many times that videos are NOT allowed and still
people do it. One gal from Germany had most of her videos wiped out
because she was warned by Barry's camp and chose to ignore them. Then
she has the audacity to post how hurt she was. What part of 'THIS IS
NOT ALLOWED' didn't she understand? If people are going to break the
rules, they deserve what they get if they get caught and calling
attention to the videos in a great way for the BMIFC to track them
down and eliminate them.

[KJM]

BW, great thank you for the clarification, I should know better
really, legal is my background, but not copyright law. I have not
been around all things Manilow including BMIFC for over 20 years,
joined again this year, so warnings about matters such as this, have
not seen. As for the lass in Germany, unbelievable. Irene hope you
are ok?

[IreneH]

> are ok?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Just going to keep my head down for a while:)

[meshuga]

> down and eliminate them.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Taking photos used to be prohibited as well, but once cameras became
standard components of cell phones the restrictions eased. (Now
there's just a ban on zoom lenses, which makes little sense as many
cameras have extremely powerful optical and/or digital zoom
capabilities). Most new cameras and cell phones also have the ability
to record video, so it's not surprising that people break the rules so
they can save snippets of shows to remember them by.

At Barry's last Vegas show the woman in front of us set her iPhone in
the cup holder with the microphone appearing on the screen, which
indicated she was making an audio recording of the show. I was a bit
surprised that she was so brazen about it considering she was in the
front row, but she didn't seem to care. A woman a few seats down from
us also was recording the show, but she was making a video with her
camera. Looked to us like she recorded almost the whole show, as she
only put the camera down three or four times the whole night.

While I understand the legalities of the issue as well as protecting
the copyrights and don't condone breaking the rules, it's not like
these folks are taking videos to sell as bootlegs. Most seem to post
on free sites like youtube for other fans to enjoy or just keep them
for personal use. Barry's fan base is so rabid that a few free video
clips don't discourage them from buying DVDs or subscribing to Manilow
TV...more like they serve to as teasers that make them even more
excited about and anxious for the real deal.

Amy

[H D]

I guess that I shouldn't post links to a few youtube videos that I
like here or ask for recommendations - or they may garner attention.
Right?
With youtube videos, Barry & team should place someone in the audience
to take videos, pick out songs that they like, and then post a few
themselves. I like those youtube videos from an audience member
perspective with a less polished look and the sounds of fans singing
along terribly and cheering - they provide a sense of what attending a
performance is "really" like today. With their planned non-tour, they
could do this at the different locations and sort of promote the non-
tour at the same time.
... And, I was surprised that you could openly take photographs at
Barry's show in Las Vegas because some performers have a no photograph
policy.

[KJM]

Amy you saved me a post thank you. I have been searching answers to
my questions on a few things last week, given I have been out the loop
for many years, and photo's was one of the things I was going to ask.
Course read all the threads that there was a total ban on all cameras,
then a back track, and just zoom lenses.

I am due to see Barry this year and have second row seats at front,
and did wonder if photographs were allowed, given the camera will
flash, I didnt want to take my camera , if not permitted, but I am
also mindful being so close, could be a distraction. My husband
pointed out, what are you on about woman, he is well used to lights
look at all the flashing gimmickery used in the show, I sort of take
his point. I do not want to be direspectful though, but at same time,
this in all likelihood will be last concert I will be able to attend
with my health deterioration, I would love pictures, torn. I see that
Garry K posts here, if you see this Garry, what is the protocol,
cameras allowed to be used close to front or not please?

I would never be so disrespectful as to blatantly sit there and record
the show, even if I didnt know there was a prohibition, I just would
not do it. I also think you make a very good point about modern
cameras, iPods, mobiles etc, most do have very good video
applications, I didnt think about that either. This is such a hard
thing to police and enforce I would think.

[bookworm]

We all are!! lol Sometimes I wish time could stand still only for a
little while.

[bookworm]

> Amy- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

If that's the case, Amy, then why has the BMIFC deleted so many of
them on You Tube? We have been told many times that copying anything,
especially at any of the shows is not allowed. Just because someone
has a camera in their phone does not mean they have been given
permission to copy anything.

And, many people DO bootleg what they have. There are STILL venues
that won't allow cameras at all. I get the feeling it's up to the
venue whether they want to allow cameras or not. I know of one lady
who was blocked from posting on one of the Manilow message boards
because she posted a show review and now others are allowed to go into
extreme detail about the shows without being blocked so who knows?

To be on the safe side, people should contact the BMIFC and ask if
it's ok. And IF you are going to record something, don't put it out
there for all the world to see. Send it to the people in your email
list and tell them not to send it on to others. I have NO idea what
the BMIFC deems permissable and what they don't when it comes to
videos because some are allowed to stay up and others are taken down.
This may be a good question for Garry since he posts here. Maybe if
he's asked, he will answer.
:-)

JW

[KJM]

I would say not a good idea HD to post links here. All said and done,
I am guilty of looking at the videos on You Tube, and love the ones
the public have done, for just as you say, the spontaneous nature of
them, not polished, just the raw deal. I have laughed and cringed at
some of them. But no means no and that is that.

[H D]

> I am due to see Barry this year and have second row seats at front,
> and did wonder if photographs were allowed, given the camera will
> flash, I didnt want to take my camera , if not permitted, but I am
> also mindful being so close, could be a distraction.  My husband
> pointed out, what are you on about woman, he is well used to lights
> look at all the flashing gimmickery used in the show, I sort of take

> his point.  I do not want to be direspectful though,?

>
>
> - Show quoted text -

Can you turn off the flash on your camera? Mine has that option.

[bookworm]

On Jan 4, 10:09 am, meshuga <meshug...@aol.com> wrote:

> Amy- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Some of these people could be reporters too or the ones that have
blogs and go on and on and on about every detail, including if Barry
had a thread loose on his jacket -no names need to be mentioned. They
probably use these recordings as references and I know of one gal who
has recorded every show she has attended. One of these days, the odds
will catch up with her and she will be tagged by the BMIFC.

What's allowed and not allowed should really be clarified by the BMIFC
once and for all. I'm being redundant in these posts I'm answering so
I will stop. :-)

[bookworm]

> thing to police and enforce I would think.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Just because all these new devices have the capability of recording
the shows, it doesn't mean it's allowed.

Taking pictures IS allowed (most digital cameras without zoom lenses
are fine) in most venues but it's always wise to call and check with
them before you take your camera. I have been at venues that did not
allow cameras and then we had to trek back to the car and lock them
up. What a drag!

It's always been a touchy subject and never explained very well except
for being told no and no means no. But whether that means all the time
or only certain times is something only Garry or someone at the BMIFC
can answer.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 10:39 am, IreneH <vmcg...@aol.com> wrote:

> Just to make it clear.  I was not reprimanded by Garry or TPTB (at
> least not yet!).

Why would you be? Of course I'm assuming that you didn't take the vid
or post it on YouTube, but just found it there.

> Rest assured I won't do it again. I hope this video
> is not pulled  because of me,  as it shows Barry in such a good light.

What's with all the kids?

Also... OMG, Barry. That jacket should be taken out and shot. What
the hell were you thinking??

[bookworm]

On Jan 4, 11:01 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Which kids? You mean all the Stiletto cruise personnel - the sweet
young things? This is how they fill the seats when they have taped
some shows. Guess they want people to think Barry has picked up a
whole new generation but, if you listen to these youngsters, most
aren't even familiar with Barry's songs!!

[bookworm]

On Jan 4, 11:01 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

lol lol lol lol lol Are you talking about the tux at the end of the
show when he is introducing everyone? He has a few jackets I'm not too
crazy about. We have to remember these are all show clothes and not
something that would be worn on the street - at least I hope not! lol

[KJM]

Definitely something I would be grateful for Garry to clarify once and
for all on this. If no answer here, I think I will send an email
off. Regards the flash, yes that can be turned off on my particular
camera. And I think I will also double check with all 3 venues I am
attending to make sure as an establishment they allow cameras in, with
security such as it is, I think it prudent.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 1:57 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Which kids? You mean all the Stiletto cruise personnel - the sweet
> young things?

No no no, the *actual children* that came out/were brought out/carried
out at the end.

> This is how they fill the seats when they have taped
> some shows. Guess they want people to think Barry has picked up a
> whole new generation but, if you listen to these youngsters, most
> aren't even familiar with Barry's songs!!

Well, duh. I don't think he's really fooling anyone with that crap.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 1:54 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 11:01 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>

> > Also... OMG, Barry.  That jacket should be taken out and shot.  What
> > the hell were you thinking??
>
> lol lol lol lol lol  Are you talking about the tux at the end of the
> show when he is introducing everyone?

Yes. With the giant red heart on the back. Seriously, WTF??

> He has a few jackets I'm not too
> crazy about.

There is crazy involved there, all right. LOL

> We have to remember these are all show clothes and not
> something that would be worn on the street - at least I hope not! lol

So do I! D:

[meshuga]

> If that's the case, Amy, then why has the BMIFC deleted so many of
> them on You Tube? We have been told many times that copying anything,
> especially at any of the shows is not allowed. Just because someone
> has a camera in their phone does not mean they have been given
> permission to copy anything.
>
>

I never said video was allowed; I just stated that all of the personal
technology that's available these days makes it difficult to monitor
what's being done by the audience members. I have yet to see any
bootleg DVDs featuring illegally recorded Manilow shows, but then
again I don't visit the kind of websites that would sell them.

And I don't think we should stop posting links here...the whole
purpose of the group is to share information. Garry and Co. don't need
to look here to see what videos are on youtube; youtube has its own
search feature right on the home screen - and every other screen, for
that matter.

As far as photos go, call the BMIFC and ask if you're so inclined (or
look at your tickets - often the info is printed there). At the last
few Vegas shows one security guard aggressively pursued fans with
cameras to ensure they weren't using a detachable zoom lens and
directed his flashlight on others during the show if he thought they
were recording video. We didn't see anyone have their equipment taken
away, although one woman got very upset when he tried to pull the non-
detachable lens off her camera. By the last show, however, he had
pretty much backed off.

KJM - check to see if you can configure your camera to take photos
without the flash. Myy point-and-shoot camera has many of the same
features as an SLR, so I adjusted the aperture and ISO speed so that
the photos taken without the flash come out better than the ones taken
with it. Either way, the flashes are always a-poppin' at his shows. If
cameras are allowed and this may be your last chance to get to a show,
there's no reason I can think of not to take some pics as momentos.

Amy

[bookworm]

It's amazing how some of the security people say no to things while
others in the same show act like they could care less. I wonder if
THEY even know exactly what IS permissable and what isn't.

I agree that pictures should be allowed no matter where he is
appearing, for someone's personal use. However, I look at it like IF
they didn't want pictures taken, they wouldn't allow cameras (meaning
Barry and Stiletto) but I have a feeling they pretty much go along
with the venue rules.

I remember one venue saying no to cameras with the excuse they could
be used as weapons in case of disagreements or fights. They should be
more concerned about the booze they are allowing people to purchase.
What about driving home from these venues under the influence? You may
disagree with me but they should stop selling booze, period. It's true
most people are responsible enough and know when to quit but the bad
always make it bad for the good and there always seems to be a nasty
accident or two while driving home and I wonder if these people were
at the show. jmho

[bookworm]

On Jan 4, 12:16 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Oh!!! lol The kids on stage are family members of those that work for
Barry. I guess he had everyone and their families there from the looks
of it. Kind of a nice touch as so many were responsible in helping
Barry and making the shows possible.

[shado...@gmail.com]

There are two main video sharing sites Daily Motion and Youtube. Now
there maybe more but those are the two that I know of. The Greman fan
had all her videos on Daily Motion not Youtube. In the middle of page
four
and every page after that she had her videos. There were about fifty-
five
pages total. All in one cameras, digital cameras and cameras on your
cell phone are OK to use at Barry's shows. Flash should not be use if
your sitting down in the first two or three rows so Barry doesn't get
the
flash in his eyes. Some of the digital cameras can also do video as
well
as still photos. So it's hard to tell what someone is doing with their
camera.
Linda

[Brenda M]

On Jan 4, 9:04 am, IreneH <vmcg...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 1:16 pm, KJM <ka...@kdaf.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 4, 11:10 am, IreneH <vmcg...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On the same page as that lovely video of Malia singing is a video of
> > > Barry's last night at The Paris where he is bringing everyone on
> > > stage.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we4Zg_BLZ8E&feature=related
>

> > > Near the end he introduces 'his personal team' of Garry, Marc and

> > > another name I didn't catch - who is this please?  Also he says 'These
> > > are the people who.......? which I also missed.  Anyone help?
> > > Irene
>
> > Thank you posting this Irene, what a lovely closing ceremony.  I have
> > listened so hard to try to catch the name after Marc, but no cannot
> > catch it...but a guess Aarron?  But I think Barry says These are the
> > people who....'I cannot do without'.   How lovely to see them all all
> > dressed up, I bet the atmosphere was highly charged that evening.
>
> Thank you.  However I have been reprimanded for posting this video so

> it is back to lurking.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Please don't go back to lurking.

But yeah ... control is a major issue with TPTB. I was (nicely) asked
to not re-post Barry's Facebook posts here, so I'm not surprised you'd
be "reprimanded" for posting a video link.

Brenda

[bookworm]

On Jan 4, 3:12 pm, "shadowma...@gmail.com" <shadowma...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Linda- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

That's not the question, Linda. We are wondering if they are now
allowing videos to be taken and posted on other websites when they
have not been allowed in the past. When was the last time you were at
a show? Cameras and phones are fine for stills IF the venues allow
them.

What you have said here we already know. And the gal in 'Germany' was
forewarned so she deserved what she got. It doesn't matter where she
had them posted.

I remember when a message came out asking people not to use their
flashes because it was blinding the people on stage but the civilians
had no way of knowing about that as they probably don't keep up with
the BMFC so flashes were still going off all over the place. People
have been using their flashes all along. JW

[Brenda M]

On Jan 4, 10:27 am, Suzan <suzan.obe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Near the end he introduces 'his personal team' of Garry, Marc and
> > another name I didn't catch - who is this please?
>

> It's Adam (Kief). He's Garry's nephew and has been working with
> Stiletto for several years. I can remember doing some impromptu
> babysitting, helping "Kate" to keep him and his brother from being
> underfoot at some of the early conventions when they were just little
> kids. Now he's a grown-up young man. Egad, I'm getting old! LOL

I can remember some friends and I were talking to Garry's dad at a
convention when Garry's nephews were still little boys running around
and, as boys do, creating bedlam. Robert/Bob had a fantastic sense of
humor ... while we were talking, he glanced over at his grandkids and
said, "Sometimes ... I wish I could get me a baseball bat ..."

Well .. you had to be there. He had perfect delivery and a wonderful
deadpan inflection that had all us in stitches. Man, I sure miss
him. He was such a sweet guy, and so great with the fans.

But if you ever wonder where Garry got his unique sense of humor ...
well, now you know! :-)

Brenda

[IreneH]

> Brenda- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

OK but it wasn't Garry who 'reprimanded' me. ;)

[Brenda M]

On Jan 4, 12:09 pm, meshuga <meshug...@aol.com> wrote:

> While I understand the legalities of the issue as well as protecting
> the copyrights and don't condone breaking the rules, it's not like
> these folks are taking videos to sell as bootlegs. Most seem to post
> on free sites like youtube for other fans to enjoy or just keep them
> for personal use. Barry's fan base is so rabid that a few free video
> clips don't discourage them from buying DVDs or subscribing to Manilow
> TV...more like they serve to as teasers that make them even more
> excited about and anxious for the real deal.
>

> Amy-

You know ... this is interesting.

Barry would obviously love to have more fans who are younger. Let's
face it, most celebrities do.

But there's a downside to evverything we want in life, and the
downside to this is that we have an entire generation of concert-goers
(including those desirable 18-24 year olds) who really don't GET
copyright law. ANYTHING is YouTube material to most of them.

So ... when it comes to preventing folks from recording shows with
their iPhones and then posting those videos online ... let's all wish
STILETTO some luck cracking down on that. Right is on their side, but
it's getting harder and harder to enforce.

Brenda

[Brenda M]

On Jan 4, 1:32 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> What's allowed and not allowed should really be clarified by the BMIFC
> once and for all.  I'm being redundant in these posts I'm answering so

> I will stop. :-)-

I'm not the BMIFC, but here's my understanding of BMIFC policy from
Mr. Kief:

Photos are allowed.
Any type of video recording is not.
Hence, posting recorded footage of concerts online is not allowed
either. Even if you didn't take the video, posting a link to it is
still frowned upon.

Pretty simple, really. :-)

[bookworm]

> Brenda- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Why not? Some people can't get into Facebook but it's nice Gary O.
always puts them in the Spotlight on the b-net home page so people can
see it that way.

[bookworm]

If that's the case, then why don't they go into You Tube and delete
all of them? Why are some allowed to stay there and others are not? I
remember Garry telling people several times that videos are not
allowed. But people don't care and the civilians have probably never
been told. They should make an announcemnet at the beginning of EVERY
show so people know and can be reminded it's a no-no.

[Brenda M]

Well, that's easy ...

Gary Oye is maintaining a site that has the BMIFC's blessing.
I'm sure he posts nothing without GCK approving it beforehand.

But the rules are different for fans re-posting stuff here.


Brenda

[Nash's Gramma]

You know, to get slightly off-topic, there are a whole bunch of things
that people aren't supposed to do, and yet do. My personal pet peeve,
which is much worse than posting links to bootleg videos, is not
turning on your headlights when it's raining. Here in California, we
have a law...wipers on, lights on. I'm amazed every time it rains how
many idiots in grey, black or silver cars are speeding along in a
downpour with no lights. They argue, well, I can see fine. It's not
whether they can see, it's can they BE seen. Electronic billboards,
newspaper articles, newscasters, all remind people every rainy season.
But they still don't turn on their lights. Why? Probably for the same
reason they would go to a Manilow concert and videotape it, and put it
on youtube. Cuz the rules don't apply to them. It's a sense of
entitlement, and it doesn't seem to have any age or ethnic
boundaries.
ok off my soapbox and back on topic...
CA Sharon

[Brenda M]

On Jan 4, 6:37 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> If that's the case, then why don't they go into You Tube and delete
> all of them? Why are some allowed to stay there and others are not? I
> remember Garry telling people several times that videos are not
> allowed. But people don't care and the civilians have probably never
> been told. They should make an announcemnet at the beginning of EVERY

> show so people know and can be reminded it's a no-no.-

I agree. They should make announcements ... because at the last show
I went to, people were video recording like CRAZY.

Re: the inconsistent removal of videos from YouTube ... you make a
good point and you know, I've wondered about that too - it seems to me
that somebody at STILETTO could peruse YouTube and similar sites on a
regular basis, find authorized videos and demand their removal.

But maybe it's just too overwhelming a task, I don't know. Maybe not
enough hours in the day?

Or maybe they just don't like seeing those links posted HERE. I'm
kinda getting the idea that alt.fan.barry-manilow is NOT Barry's
favorite fan forum on the Internet. :-)

Brenda

[Brenda M]

Ooops ... I obviously meant to type "unauthorized" videos.

Sorry about the typo - long day.

Brenda

[Kristen Cladek]

On Jan 4, 6:10 am, IreneH <vmcg...@aol.com> wrote:
> On the same page as that lovely video of Malia singing is a video of
> Barry's last night at The Paris where he is bringing everyone on
> stage.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we4Zg_BLZ8E&feature=related
>
> Near the end he introduces 'his personal team' of Garry, Marc and
> another name I didn't catch - who is this please?  Also he says 'These
> are the people who.......? which I also missed.  Anyone help?
> Irene

Great video! It's nice to see! So much energy!! I think it's amazing
how grateful he is for everything and everyone!!

Did anyone else notice he said at the Las Vegas Hilton?

-Kristen

[Kristen Cladek]

On Jan 4, 1:01 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

It would be fine if there wasn't that ghastly heart on the back :-/

-Kristen

[Garry Kief]

On Jan 4, 10:09 am, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 4, 10:09 am, meshuga <meshug...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 4, 10:57 am, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 4, 8:47 am, KJM <ka...@kdaf.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 4, 3:27 pm, Suzan <suzan.obe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> > > > > > Near the end he introduces 'his personal team' of Garry, Marc and
> > > > > > another name I didn't catch - who is this please?
>

> > > > > It's Adam (Kief). He's Garry's nephew and has been working with
> > > > > Stiletto for several years. I can remember doing some impromptu
> > > > > babysitting, helping "Kate" to keep him and his brother from being
> > > > > underfoot at some of the early conventions when they were just little
> > > > > kids. Now he's a grown-up young man. Egad, I'm getting old! LOL
>

> > > > You know what, I did not even think about this being a 'no no' whilst
> > > > watching it, and I bet you didnt either Irene, rules are rules as they
> > > > say.  However, does this relate to just LV show, or applicable to all
> > > > Manilow shows, I ask, simply because there are hundreds of You Tube
> > > > vids of shows etc including recent ones at 02 in London, should they
> > > > not be removed, as I suspect this clip will be?  It seems to me that
> > > > one would need to employ a full time person just to warn off people
> > > > who do break the rules and pop videos on You Tube.
>
> > > This is in regard to ALL Manilow shows. He is copyrighted and many
> > > videos have been removed from You Tube already. We've all been told by
> > > Garry and the BMIFC many times that videos are NOT allowed and still
> > > people do it. One gal from Germany had most of her videos wiped out
> > > because she was warned by Barry's camp and chose to ignore them. Then
> > > she has the audacity to post how hurt she was. What part of 'THIS IS
> > > NOT ALLOWED' didn't she understand? If people are going to break the
> > > rules, they deserve what they get if they get caught and calling
> > > attention to the videos in a great way for the BMIFC to track them

> > > down and eliminate them.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>

> > Taking photos used to be prohibited as well, but once cameras became
> > standard components of cell phones the restrictions eased. (Now
> > there's just a ban on zoom lenses, which makes little sense as many
> > cameras have extremely powerful optical and/or digital zoom
> > capabilities).  Most new cameras and cell phones also have the ability
> > to record video, so it's not surprising that people break the rules so
> > they can save snippets of shows to remember them by.
>
> > At Barry's last Vegas show the woman in front of us set her iPhone in
> > the cup holder with the microphone appearing on the screen, which
> > indicated she was making an audio recording of the show. I was a bit
> > surprised that she was so brazen about it considering she was in the
> > front row, but she didn't seem to care. A woman a few seats down from
> > us also was recording the show, but she was making a video with her
> > camera. Looked to us like she recorded almost the whole show, as she
> > only put the camera down three or four times the whole night.
>

> > While I understand the legalities of the issue as well as protecting
> > the copyrights and don't condone breaking the rules, it's not like
> > these folks are taking videos to sell as bootlegs. Most seem to post
> > on free sites like youtube for other fans to enjoy or just keep them
> > for personal use. Barry's fan base is so rabid that a few free video
> > clips don't discourage them from buying DVDs or subscribing to Manilow
> > TV...more like they serve to as teasers that make them even more
> > excited about and anxious for the real deal.
>

> > Amy- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -
>

> If that's the case, Amy, then why has the BMIFC deleted so many of
> them on You Tube? We have been told many times that copying anything,
> especially at any of the shows is not allowed. Just because someone
> has a camera in their phone does not mean they have been given
> permission to copy anything.
>

> And, many people DO bootleg what they have. There are STILL venues
> that won't allow cameras at all. I get the feeling it's up to the
> venue whether they want to allow cameras or not. I know of one lady
> who was blocked from posting on one of the Manilow message boards
> because she posted a show review and now others are allowed to go into
> extreme detail about the shows without being blocked so who knows?
>
> To be on the safe side, people should contact the BMIFC and ask if
> it's ok. And IF you are going to record something, don't put it out
> there for all the world to see. Send it to the people in your email
> list and tell them not to send it on to others. I have NO idea what
> the BMIFC deems permissable and what they don't when it comes to
> videos because some are allowed to stay up and others are taken down.
> This may be a good question for Garry since he posts here. Maybe if
> he's asked, he will answer.
> :-)
>
> JW- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Barry has allowed still cameras (with flash) at his concerts for quite
a few years. It's in his contract.
(Much to the chagrin of most venues and/or promoters.)
(Of course, anyone who is glued to an autodrive and disturbs adjacent
guests is usually asked to chill.)

Video/audio recording is not allowed. That involves music licenses,
union regulations, and venue policies that we are all obligated to
enforce.

In regard to YouTube, I don't think we've notified YouTube in quite
some time. YouTube, however, respects the rights of the copyright
owner and will quickly remove a clip if the owner complains. In most
instances, the "owner" can also be the songwriter, the music
publisher, the record company, the TV Network, the venue, etc. In
other words, quite a few entities other than Barry have the right to
demand that YouTube remove a clip and are very agressive in monitoring
YouTube.

In some instances (very, very limited) we have contacteda specific
individual and requested that clips be removed. In most cases they
were also selling DVDs of their bootleg clips and/or selling
advertising on their webpage. Though we appreciate and understand
their "enthusiasm," we also can't tolerate their commercial
exploitation of Barry, his music, his band, his singers, and everyone
involved in the production of his concerts and television appearances.

In regard to reviews, we appreciate a review as much as anyone. A
play by play, and then he said, and then he sang, and then he
wore......however, is not a review. In fact, it tends to spoil the
show for everyone else and we have periodically asked that people
refrain from such postings.

Hope that helps

Garry

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 2:49 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh!!! lol The kids on stage are family members of those that work for
> Barry. I guess he had everyone and their families there from the looks
> of it. Kind of a nice touch as so many were responsible in helping
> Barry and making the shows possible.

Ah, thanks. He probably explained that, but it was difficult to make
out what he was saying at times.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 5:36 pm, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:

> But yeah ... control is a major issue with TPTB.  I was (nicely) asked
> to not re-post Barry's Facebook posts here, so I'm not surprised you'd
> be "reprimanded" for posting a video link.

What? No way! Now how am I going to read them???

[Kitten Mommy]

Yes. When I saw that, I was like, "OMG, WHAT?". *shakes head*

I think this guy must get dressed in the dark a lot.

[bookworm]

> Garry- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you, Garry for taking the time to post here. You confirmed
videos are not allowed but you lost me on the show reviews. Quite a
few have posted on the Barrynet specifically stating what you say
above is not a review and those posts have been allowed to stay there.
So my question to you is:

Are you saying as long as someone gives their opinion of a show with
all their emotions, etc. then it is ok and considered a review?

I must be honest and say I consider a review to include songs Barry
sang during the show, any surprises he sang that weren't expected, I
LIKE to know he wore something new for a change, any new scenery, etc.
Those are the things I look for when a 'review' is posted. LOVE the
little scripted things he says too. I've been to over 250 shows in 32
years and I STILL like the direct and to the point reviews - just the
facts that may make me decide to head to another show to see for
myself. I may be in the minority but the reviews that go on and on and
on with every little detail included are like fingernails grating on a
blackboard to me. Keep the emotions to a minimum. jmho

At any rate, we're all different and I thank you again for
replying. :-)

JW

[Brenda M]

Kitten Mommy wrote:
> What? No way! Now how am I going to read them???

Don't worry ...

If I don't re-post them, I'm sure someone else will.

I imagine TPTB would prefer fans read the posts on FB to maximize
traffic.

Brenda

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 9:12 pm, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:
> Kitten Mommy wrote:
> > What?  No way!  Now how am I going to read them???
>
> Don't worry ...
>
> If I don't re-post them, I'm sure someone else will.

:D

> I imagine TPTB would prefer fans read the posts on FB to maximize
> traffic.

Facebook is Pure Evil and I refuse to participate! :p

C'mon, Garry, cut me a break here, OK? *makes adorable kitten eyes at
Garry like Puss from the "Shrek" movies*

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 8:13 pm, Garry Kief <garryk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In regard to reviews, we appreciate a review as much as anyone.   A
> play by play, and then he said, and then he sang, and then he
> wore......however, is not a review.  In fact, it tends to spoil the
> show for everyone else and we have periodically asked that people
> refrain from such postings.

LOL, yeah. During the 2007 Genesis reunion tour, set lists were
considered spoilers on the official forums, and woe betide anyone who
posted one without marking it as such!

Fandom is pretty much the same all over, isn't it? ;)

[Brenda M]

bookworm wrote:
>
> Thank you, Garry for taking the time to post here. You confirmed
> videos are not allowed but you lost me on the show reviews. Quite a
> few have posted on the Barrynet specifically stating what you say
> above is not a review and those posts have been allowed to stay there.
> So my question to you is:

It's been my experience that TPTB have been tolerant of most fan
reviewss - even the negative ones - but there have been puzzling
exceptions (CA Sharon's is the most recent example that comes to
mind). However, Barry has NEVER liked the "play by play" reviews some
fans write.

I remember one sad episode ... This was many years ago when fan cluns
were permitted to decorate Barry's dressing rooms. A local Illinois
club decorated his dressing room and left a copy of their latest club
newsletter back there for Barry to enjoy. Well, when the club's
officers went backstage after the show to clean up (long after Barry
was safely out of sight, of course), they found their newsletter ...
Complete with some ugly comments from Barry written in the margins of
one of the concert reviews. I think you can imagine the heartbreak
this caused.

I don't think Barry meant to hurt this fan's feelings, but he did just
the same. I know the whole experience soured her on Barry for a very
long time.

He can be a real ass sometimes.

But we love him anyway.

Brenda

PS - moral of the story - watch what you write about his shows.

[Brenda M]

By the way, let me apologize again for all the typos ... I typed this
thing on my Blackberry and my nails are too long. :-)

Brenda

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 9:24 pm, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:
> bookworm wrote:

> I remember one sad episode ... This was many years ago when fan cluns
> were permitted to decorate Barry's dressing rooms. A local Illinois
> club decorated his dressing room and left a copy of their latest club
> newsletter back there for Barry to enjoy. Well, when the club's
> officers went backstage after the show to clean up (long after Barry
> was safely out of sight, of course), they found their newsletter ...
> Complete with some ugly comments from Barry written in the margins of
> one of the concert reviews.

Oh dear.

> I think you can imagine the heartbreak
> this caused.

Yes.

> I don't think Barry meant to hurt this fan's feelings, but he did just
> the same. I know the whole experience soured her on Barry for a very
> long time.
>
> He can be a real ass sometimes.

Or... depending on what the review said, *he* was hurt by some of the
stuff that had been written and was lashing out (as one sometimes does
when one feels hurt or defensive).

It's hard to tell without seeing the review and his comments.

> PS - moral of the story - watch what you write about his shows.

By the same token, there are times when he needs to put on his big boy
pants and take it. Writing hurtful things in response to a *fan club
review* probably wasn't his finest moment.

[bookworm]

On Jan 4, 7:29 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Ummm..........I didn't write this - Brenda did. JW

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 9:37 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ummm..........I didn't write this - Brenda did.  JW

Sorry. I must've messed up my attribution somehow! NG FAIL.

[bookworm]

On Jan 4, 7:29 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

No, but he's human not that that is an excuse but we all have our
moments.

Brenda, was this during his 'brat period' that he talks about in his
book? It had to be a long time ago because clubs haven't decorated
dressing rooms for a long time now. Just wondering why he would be so
nasty unless he meant to be constructive and came off as being a putz.
It probably would have turned me off too - for good! He's not the
knight in shining armor up on a pedestal after all, is he? I would
have been thinking this at that time. Some people seem to forget these
entertainers are just people the same as the rest of us and they do
lose their cool once in a while just like we do.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 9:49 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> No, but he's human not that that is an excuse but we all have our
> moments.

Exactly!

> Brenda, was this during his 'brat period' that he talks about in his
> book? It had to be a long time ago because clubs haven't decorated
> dressing rooms for a long time now. Just wondering why he would be so
> nasty unless he meant to be constructive and came off as being a putz.

There are so many factors there... was he hungry? Tired? Drunk?
Pissed off about something else and venting on a convenient target?
We'll never know.

> It probably would have turned me off too - for good! He's not the
> knight in shining armor up on a pedestal after all, is he?

Nope. He's as human as the rest of us. Count on it.

> I would
> have been thinking this at that time. Some people seem to forget these
> entertainers are just people the same as the rest of us and they do
> lose their cool once in a while just like we do.

Bingo.

And in some situations, there are other factors in there that we can't
know and probably never will (or even *should*) know.

[Brenda M]

On Jan 4, 9:49 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> No, but he's human not that that is an excuse but we all have our
> moments.

Absolutely!

And at the time it happened , I remember thinking, "What a prick!"
But now, years later, I can appreciate his daring to be real.

Kinda reassures me that even the great Barry Manilow can, like me, be
a complete asshole at times. He's not the god of music, he's just a
guy struggling through this life like the rest of us poor slobs. I
like him all the better for it, if that makes any sense.

I know, I'm weird!

>
> Brenda, was this during his 'brat period' that he talks about in his
> book?

**Personal Opinion Alert**

No .... the "brat" period Barry referred to was much earlier. But
Barry had - and still has - his bratty moments. I've said it a
million times ... if you get him on a good day, he's a prince.
There's nobody on earth who will make you feel more special, more
wonderful, and more adored. He can be a DOLL ... I know, I've been
lucky enough to be on the receiving end of Magical, Wonderful Barry.

But on the wrong day ... duck and cover, baby!

Must be that Gemini "twin" thing goin' on there...

It had to be a long time ago because clubs haven't decorated
> dressing rooms for a long time now. Just wondering why he would be so
> nasty unless he meant to be constructive and came off as being a putz.

Maybe he was just tired and it just grated on his last remaining
nerve. And I'll bet he felt like a big jerk afterward.

The problem, though, is that his fans have so little exposure to him
that what little he dishes out ends up being magnified by, like, a
million. If Barry talked to her everyday, she probably would have
said, oh, crap, he's in one of his pissy moods and just let it roll
off her back, but given that this was probably one of her few contacts
with him ... yikes. For him, though, she was just another fan.
Another show, another night, another fan pissing him off - right?

> It probably would have turned me off too - for good! He's not the
> knight in shining armor up on a pedestal after all, is he?

No, and thank God for that. I would have gotten bored with him a long
time ago if he was that.

I would
> have been thinking this at that time. Some people seem to forget these
> entertainers are just people the same as the rest of us and they do
> lose their cool once in a while just like we do

I believe you're right.

Brenda

[shado...@gmail.com]

Ah but does Garry know that some digital cameras have HD
capabilities. Like the Nikon COOLPIX S6100. That model has
one touch HD capabilities. Which means it can take still photos
as well as video footage. Nikon isn't the only camera company
that makes cameras that can take still photography as well as
video footage. There are even some video cameras that look like
an iPhone or Android phone. Also some cell phones have video
recording capabilities as well as being able to take still photos.
As long as Barry and Garry allow digital cameras there will be
fans who will continue to video tape the shows they go to see.
Some not all fans feel they have to have every show audio taped
and video taped for their menories. Also to trade with their friends.
I've heard fans use to do years ago trade cassette tapes with their
friends. So I wouldn't be a bit surprised if fans don't burn their
video
footage from their digital cameras onto blank cd's to share and trade
with friends. You can tell them NO till you are blue in the face so
to
speak and they will completely ignore you. They fell it's their right
and they (I) have to have that. Isn't that sort of why we had a camera
ban in 1997/1998? I remember leaving my camera at the hotel on
NYE 12/25/97 because of that ban. Orch Pitt/Row BBB/Seat 18
dead center. Oh the photos I could have taken. I still had wonderful
time at Universal Amphitheatre that night thanks to Barry and the
boys.
Linda

[bookworm]

I've heard from others that some in his immediate camp have said he
can be extremely moody. I imagine so with all he has going on and I
would say there are times when he doesn't want to be bothered with
anything but the show must go on. I give him a lot of credit,
especially with all these hip issues. I'm not sure I could have done
all the shows he's done if my hips were like his. He's got to make all
the money he can while he can to keep his people employed as long as
he can. He has to make good on the contracts too. Some people treat
him like he is a machine and there are times I am in awe with all he
has going on. So he's entitled to lose his cool every now and then.
These nasty reporters don't help any either and even though Barry says
he's gotten used to the crap, I can't help but thnk it still wears on
him from time to time. I don't think anyone could pay me enough to be
an entertainer. It's not as glamorous as people think it is - much too
hectic a life for me.

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 10:10 pm, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:

> The problem, though, is that his fans have so little exposure to him
> that what little he dishes out ends up being magnified by, like, a
> million.  If Barry talked to her everyday, she probably would have
> said, oh, crap, he's in one of his pissy moods and just let it roll
> off her back, but given that this was probably one of her few contacts
> with him ... yikes.  For him, though, she was just another fan.
> Another show, another night, another fan pissing him off - right?

You have mail. ;)

[Maria]

On Jan 4, 10:40 pm, "shadowma...@gmail.com" <shadowma...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ah but does Garry know that some digital cameras have HD
> capabilities. Like  the Nikon COOLPIX S6100. That model has
> one touch HD capabilities. Which means it can take still photos
> as well as video footage. Nikon isn't the only camera company
> that makes cameras that can take still photography as well as
> video footage. There are even some video cameras that look like
> an iPhone or Android phone. Also some cell phones have video
> recording capabilities as well as being able to take still photos.
> As long as Barry and Garry allow digital cameras there will be
> fans who will continue to video tape the shows they go to see.
> Some not all fans feel they have to have every show audio taped
> and video taped for their menories. Also to trade with their friends.
> I've heard fans use to do years ago trade cassette tapes with their
> friends. So I wouldn't be a bit surprised if fans don't burn their
> video
> footage from their digital cameras onto blank cd's to share and trade
> with friends. You can tell them NO till you are blue in the face so
> to
> speak and they will completely ignore you. They fell it's their right
> and they (I) have to have that.

I'm sure Garry knows about all the latest technology. I think their
big issue is people that sell and/or post publicly copyrighted
material. It's a really, really hot issue. Music rights are being
stolen left and right because of modern technology. All this
"sharing" is leading to a loss of income for not only the songwriter,
but everyone associated with that song. A little mantra at my office
is - "if you want to play, you have to pay".

There's a program out there for middle school kids called "Donny the
Downloader". It is meant to teach children a bit about copyright law
in simple terms. Here's the link to the description:
http://www.ascap.com/legislation/dtd.aspx On that same page, you can
click on the topics on "For Middle School Teachers: A printable lesson
plan" that spells things out, simply. "Copyrights, Part 4: Rights and
Wrongs" is pretty interesting.
http://www.ascap.com/~/media/Files/Pdf/advocacy-legislation/ASCAP_Copyright_Lesson_Plan.ashx

Hope the links work.

Maria

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 4, 10:43 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've heard from others that some in his immediate camp have said he
> can be extremely moody. I imagine so with all he has going on and I
> would say there are times when he doesn't want to be bothered with
> anything but the show must go on. I give him a lot of credit,
> especially with all these hip issues. I'm not sure I could have done
> all the shows he's done if my hips were like his.

Right???

I have bursitis in my left hip (Fun With Cerebral Palsy! Warning: No
actual fun included.) and I can't even imagine how miserable he must
have been a lot of the time.

I mean, when Motrin and Percocet *together* don't even begin to
*touch* the pain... yeah. I totally sympathize with the poor guy, and
I hope this latest operation fixes things.

[Beanz]

I have a legitmate question here. If I were to start a personal blog
or starting something like a FB organization using Barry's song
titles, such as One Voice and Could It Be Magic, wouldn't I need
written permission to do such a thing, especially it the possibility
of $$$ could be made from such a thing or taken in $$$ for charity?
or just advertising Barry would be sufficient to so such a
thing? :O) Just curious. I'm not planning on doing that, I just
notice others are. :O)

[KJM]

Garry excellent just the information I needed. Thank you for taking
the time to respond.

[Brenda M]

> notice others are.  :O)- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm not an attorney, but my understanding is that you can't copyright
song titles (which is why you'll often see different songs using the
same title).

So, if you're just using a title, I would think you'd be fine. If
this is incorrect, I'm sure Mr. Kief will correct me.

Brenda
Brenda

[nancy]

On Jan 4, 4:36 pm, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 9:04 am, IreneH <vmcg...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 4, 1:16 pm, KJM <ka...@kdaf.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 4, 11:10 am, IreneH <vmcg...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On the same page as that lovely video of Malia singing is a video of
> > > > Barry's last night at The Paris where he is bringing everyone on
> > > > stage.
>
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we4Zg_BLZ8E&feature=related

>
> > > > Near the end he introduces 'his personal team' of Garry, Marc and

> > > > another name I didn't catch - who is this please?  Also he says 'These
> > > > are the people who.......? which I also missed.  Anyone help?
> > > > Irene
>
> > > Thank you posting this Irene, what a lovely closing ceremony.  I have
> > > listened so hard to try to catch the name after Marc, but no cannot
> > > catch it...but a guess Aarron?  But I think Barry says These are the
> > > people who....'I cannot do without'.   How lovely to see them all all
> > > dressed up, I bet the atmosphere was highly charged that evening.
>
> > Thank you.  However I have been reprimanded for posting this video so
> > it is back to lurking.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -
>

> Please don't go back to lurking.

>
> But yeah ... control is a major issue with TPTB.  I was (nicely) asked
> to not re-post Barry's Facebook posts here, so I'm not surprised you'd
> be "reprimanded" for posting a video link.
>

> Brenda

How could someone be "reprimanded" for posting a video or even
copying a facebook message? You were nicely asked but still
How does that work? What do they do write to you?
What would happen if you did not listen to what you were told?
Seriously it is not like they can come after you

[Nash's Gramma]

Sorry to disagree, but yes, they can come after you. I've personally
experienced it.
CA Sharon

[Brenda M]

On Jan 5, 6:03 pm, nancy <nancypan...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> How could someone be "reprimanded" for posting a video or even
> copying a facebook message? You were nicely asked but still
> How does that work? What do they do write to you?

Please don't go there.

> What would   happen if you did not listen to what you were told?

> Seriously it is not like they can come after you-

ROFLMAO - I'm sorry, I read this and just laugh and laugh and
laugh ....

Seriously ....

If someone nicely asks me to do something -- and this WAS phrased as a
favor, not a demand -- I usually try to comply. I'm one of those
people who responds a lot better to honey than vinegar.

Brenda

[Beanz]

I noticed going back to some previous alt threads this actually has
been a bone of contention for quite some time. I just skimmed though
it quickly but it seems a few years passing has changed some attitudes
regarding this from some alt posters.

MMN used to send people on that site letters for people to take off
the videos or else they would be thrown off (banned) from MMN. Sort
of a cease and desist kind of an order or else "Yer outta 'ere!!!" I
was sure I posted that letter somewhere on alt but I just can't find
it at this time. I'll take a look see another time for it.

But really the whole thing was handled in a way that some people could
and others couldn't. It really just depended on who you were.
Definately double standards were in place, I have no idea if this is
still happening.

[nancy]

I understand that if you were asked as a favor
But what would happen if you did not? I mean does someone have photo
of you?
And know where you live etc?
Maybe they can come after you(not)

[nancy]

So they came after you in person? That would stink if that happened
Now if you had an email or a letter perhaps how could they know who
you are?
Sorry being a bit nosey
Sounds weird to have that happen

[Nash's Gramma]

How could they know who I am? Because I don't hide behind an alias.
I'm not afraid of the truth, and I believe in myself. There's only one
me.
CA Sharon

[Brenda M]

Sharon,

Don't you find it interesting that a lot of us old-timers ... who are
pretty well known because we*ve been alive forever... Are the ones who
tend to NOT use aliases? You'd think we would! And yet it's fans they
don't know from Adam feel they have to hide behind masks.

It's really odd.

Brenda

[nancy]

So all they do is write and say do not do this?
It isnt like they know where you live
What is the worst that can happen if something is copied?
They can not shut down your computer no matter who you are

[nancy]

Age has nothing to do with it
If I copied Barrys FB message or replies etc and put it here
what can TPTB do to me? Zip.
They can say stop of course but what else is there?
TPTB can not do anything else but that

[nancy]

On Jan 4, 7:13 pm, Garry Kief <garryk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 10:09 am, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 4, 10:09 am, meshuga <meshug...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 4, 10:57 am, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 4, 8:47 am, KJM <ka...@kdaf.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 4, 3:27 pm, Suzan <suzan.obe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> > > > > > > Near the end he introduces 'his personal team' of Garry, Marc and
> > > > > > > another name I didn't catch - who is this please?
>

> > > > > > It's Adam (Kief). He's Garry's nephew and has been working with
> > > > > > Stiletto for several years. I can remember doing some impromptu
> > > > > > babysitting, helping "Kate" to keep him and his brother from being
> > > > > > underfoot at some of the early conventions when they were just little
> > > > > > kids. Now he's a grown-up young man. Egad, I'm getting old! LOL
>
> > > > > You know what, I did not even think about this being a 'no no' whilst
> > > > > watching it, and I bet you didnt either Irene, rules are rules as they
> > > > > say.  However, does this relate to just LV show, or applicable to all
> > > > > Manilow shows, I ask, simply because there are hundreds of You Tube
> > > > > vids of shows etc including recent ones at 02 in London, should they
> > > > > not be removed, as I suspect this clip will be?  It seems to me that
> > > > > one would need to employ a full time person just to warn off people
> > > > > who do break the rules and pop videos on You Tube.
>
> > > > This is in regard to ALL Manilow shows. He is copyrighted and many
> > > > videos have been removed from You Tube already. We've all been told by
> > > > Garry and the BMIFC many times that videos are NOT allowed and still
> > > > people do it. One gal from Germany had most of her videos wiped out
> > > > because she was warned by Barry's camp and chose to ignore them. Then
> > > > she has the audacity to post how hurt she was. What part of 'THIS IS
> > > > NOT ALLOWED' didn't she understand? If people are going to break the
> > > > rules, they deserve what they get if they get caught and calling
> > > > attention to the videos in a great way for the BMIFC to track them

> > > > down and eliminate them.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>

> > > Taking photos used to be prohibited as well, but once cameras became
> > > standard components of cell phones the restrictions eased. (Now
> > > there's just a ban on zoom lenses, which makes little sense as many
> > > cameras have extremely powerful optical and/or digital zoom
> > > capabilities).  Most new cameras and cell phones also have the ability
> > > to record video, so it's not surprising that people break the rules so
> > > they can save snippets of shows to remember them by.
>
> > > At Barry's last Vegas show the woman in front of us set her iPhone in
> > > the cup holder with the microphone appearing on the screen, which
> > > indicated she was making an audio recording of the show. I was a bit
> > > surprised that she was so brazen about it considering she was in the
> > > front row, but she didn't seem to care. A woman a few seats down from
> > > us also was recording the show, but she was making a video with her
> > > camera. Looked to us like she recorded almost the whole show, as she
> > > only put the camera down three or four times the whole night.
>
> > > While I understand the legalities of the issue as well as protecting
> > > the copyrights and don't condone breaking the rules, it's not like
> > > these folks are taking videos to sell as bootlegs. Most seem to post
> > > on free sites like youtube for other fans to enjoy or just keep them
> > > for personal use. Barry's fan base is so rabid that a few free video
> > > clips don't discourage them from buying DVDs or subscribing to Manilow
> > > TV...more like they serve to as teasers that make them even more
> > > excited about and anxious for the real deal.
>

> > > Amy- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>

> > If that's the case, Amy, then why has the BMIFC deleted so many of
> > them on You Tube? We have been told many times that copying anything,
> > especially at any of the shows is not allowed. Just because someone
> > has a camera in their phone does not mean they have been given
> > permission to copy anything.
>
> > And, many people DO bootleg what they have. There are STILL venues
> > that won't allow cameras at all. I get the feeling it's up to the
> > venue whether they want to allow cameras or not. I know of one lady
> > who was blocked from posting on one of the Manilow message boards
> > because she posted a show review and now others are allowed to go into
> > extreme detail about the shows without being blocked so who knows?
>
> > To be on the safe side, people should contact the BMIFC and ask if
> > it's ok. And IF you are going to record something, don't put it out
> > there for all the world to see. Send it to the people in your email
> > list and tell them not to send it on to others. I have NO idea what
> > the BMIFC deems permissable and what they don't when it comes to
> > videos because some are allowed to stay up and others are taken down.
> > This may be a good question for Garry since he posts here. Maybe if
> > he's asked, he will answer.
> > :-)
>

> > JW- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -
>

In regards to your last paragraph
I have read reviews that go into detail about Barrys shows
For those of us who have never been to Vegas it is nice to read the
reviews play by play

[Maria]

On Jan 6, 7:23 pm, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:

> Don't you find it interesting that a lot of us old-timers ... who are
> pretty well known because we*ve been alive forever... Are the ones who
> tend to NOT use aliases? You'd think we would! And yet it's fans they
> don't know from Adam feel they have to hide behind masks.
>

I see no reason to hide who I am either. People who know me know my
last name and where I live and work. I don't think Garry knows me by
name or face even though I have spoken to him. But, Marc knows me. I
think Marc knows everybody that's been around forever. That man's mind
is amazing. HE's a hottie too!! No doubt about it. Love him. So,
why be shy or secretive. No need for it at this stage of the game.

Maria

[Nash's Gramma]

On Jan 6, 5:04 pm, nancy <nancypan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
> So all they do is write and say do not do this?
> It isnt like they know where you live
> What is the worst that can happen if something is copied?
> They can not shut down your computer no matter who you are

Much as I dislike rehashing past history, I just want to respond for
the newbies.

Nancy, Lorrie, whomever you are today...let me tell you what they can
do if they aren't happy with you. Just try posting a less-than-
favorable review of Barry's show here on alt.fan. Imagine that after
you do, some snitch forwards your reviewl on to Marc Hulett. Imagine
having someone contact ticketmaster to find out where you're sitting
at the next show.(cuz you made the mistake of mentioning in the review
that you had tickets for the next night) Imagine someone flagging your
seat, and the seat of your companion, with Post-It notes before you
arrive. Imagine having your picture taken at the show, and used to ID
you while you are innocently returning to your seat after going to the
bathroom. Imagine one of Barry's employees up in your face, calling
you hateful, and offering you money to leave the show. Imagine how
angry that employee becomes when you refuse his offer, and chose to
stay. And yes, I chose to stay. But the hurt and anger lingered for
months.

That's what they can do. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
CA Sharon

[Kitten Mommy]

OMG. That is just... OMG. I have never heard of anything like that,
*ever*.

To quote Gwen Stefani, "this shit is bananas".

I am amazed you are still a fan.

[Nash's Gramma]

On Jan 6, 7:36 pm, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I'm still a fan for the same reason I went back to that second show.
Because I love Barry's music, and it wasn't Barry....it was his
minions.
CA Sharon

[Kitten Mommy]

And his minions don't act under his orders?

[Garry Kief]

Sharon....I believe you are the only person that anyone has ever asked
to leave a show.

[Garry Kief]

On Jan 4, 11:16 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Jan 4, 1:57 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Which kids? You mean all the Stiletto cruise personnel - the sweet
> > young things?
>
> No no no, the *actual children* that came out/were brought out/carried
> out at the end.
>
> > This is how they fill the seats when they have taped
> > some shows. Guess they want people to think Barry has picked up a
> > whole new generation but, if you listen to these youngsters, most
> > aren't even familiar with Barry's songs!!
>
> Well, duh.  I don't think he's really fooling anyone with that crap.

We rehearse 15 casts twice a year. There are about 16 kids in each
cast. They spend six weeks at our academy in LA. Whenever we can we
bus them to Las Vegas to see a master showman. Most of them learn a
lot and come back years later and thank us for that unique part of the
six weeks they spend at Stiletto boot camp. We're sorry if their
presence offended you or if you think their exposure to Barry's
performance expertise is detrimental.

[Nash's Gramma]

It's a singular honor I could have lived without. I still don't
understand what I did that was so awful that Marc felt he needed to
make that sort of gesture.
CA Sharon

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 7, 1:50 am, Garry Kief <garryk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 11:16 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 4, 1:57 pm, bookworm <jnnwlk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Which kids? You mean all the Stiletto cruise personnel - the sweet
> > > young things?
>
> > No no no, the *actual children* that came out/were brought out/carried
> > out at the end.
>
> > > This is how they fill the seats when they have taped
> > > some shows. Guess they want people to think Barry has picked up a
> > > whole new generation but, if you listen to these youngsters, most
> > > aren't even familiar with Barry's songs!!
>
> > Well, duh.  I don't think he's really fooling anyone with that crap.
>
> We rehearse 15 casts twice a year. There are about 16 kids in each
> cast.  They spend six weeks at our academy in LA. Whenever we can we
> bus them to Las Vegas to see a master showman.  Most of them learn a
> lot and come back years later and thank us for that unique part of the
> six weeks they spend at Stiletto boot camp.

Ah, I see. I had no idea there was a Stiletto Boot Camp.

I think what people are objecting to is stocking the front seats of
shows with these young kids whenever you're doing a taping. I'm sure
they're all very eager and talented, but they are... ah... perhaps not
truly representative of the actual make-up of Barry's fandom, and yet
they are being presented to the world as typical fans.

> We're sorry if their
> presence offended you or if you think their exposure to Barry's
> performance expertise is detrimental.

LOL, I really couldn't care less. Other people here seem to have some
strong opinions on this, though, and I can understand where their
objections are coming from; it's as though Barry is ashamed of his
fandom and so has to get a younger, better-looking "fandom" whenever
he tapes one of his shows to present to the world.

[Beanz]

---.let me tell you what they can
do if they aren't happy with you.---

They also ban you from their beloved My Manilow Networks if you don't
"fit" into their ideal of a "good" fan. Whatever that may mean.

[bookworm]

> "fit" into their ideal of a "good" fan.  Whatever that may mean.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

In all fairness, the BMIFC has My Manilow Network and it is open only
to those who have current memberships in the BMIFC. If you don't renew
your membership, you won't be approved to get into that place and
post. It doesn't matter how many years you've supported the man,
bought the merchandise, seen the shows and concerts or donated to his
charies or been a member of the BMIFC. This is why so many are hurt
and offended. They say it's like a slap in the face and telling people
because they aren't current in their memberships, they aren't good
enough anymore. There are many who just don't have the $10 to renew
right now, especially in this economy. Some have said they feel like
they are being punished like children for something they can't help.

You don't have to be a current member of the BMIFC to be able to post
on the B-net but you have to apply and be approved in order to post
there.

BOTH message boards are monitored and you WILL be banned from posting
there if you cause any trouble. It's such a shame there are those who
post there to deliberately cause trouble or aren't in their right
minds or have some sort of personality disorders, etc. (unfortunately,
we see this behavior everywhere) so those are the main ones that have
to be especially monitored. The thing most don't understand is why one
person can say something derogatory and not be banned from posting
while someone else will post something innocent (but interpreted the
wrong way) and they are blocked from posting. And they say if they
contact the BMIFC trying to find out what they did wrong, they never
get a reply and are left in the dark. It's all very confusing to the
majority and there are quite a few who have simply stopped posting
altogether for various reasons.

Barry has said many times to let him know if something is wrong but
there are those who are afraid to say anything for fear they will get
black-balled. The other question is how are people going to talk to
him when they can't get near him? Whatever happened to freedom of
speech and being able to express your feelings without being in
fear?

I really haven't gotten involved in any of this as I just purchase a
ticket to a show from the venue or Ticketmaster and buy a CD at the
store if I want it. That's about it. I guess I was hesitant because of
all the horror stories I've heard and all the verifying emails I've
seen confirming all the back-stabbing and jealousy going on. It does
tend to make one apprehensive. JW

[Brenda M]

> CA Sharon-

First, I apologize in advance for airing some thoughts that might tick
somebody off, because I do realize that what went on between you and
Camp Manilow is technically none of my business.

But, since both you and Garry are chiming in about this on a public
forum, I'm throwing caution to the wind and just going for it here.

I'm not doubting anything you've said, Sharon. Or anything Garry's
said.

But here's what's blowing my mind:

I've had disagreements with Barry's folks in the past too, and they
were mostly about something I'd written and posted publicly. Some
disagreements we were able to sort out ... others we've had to sort of
"agree to disagree" about. But two things have always been a constant:

1) They (meaning Garry and, once, Barry) have always told me, flat
out, black and white, what it was I said or did that was offensive. I
never once had to guess. Not ever.

and

2) We eventually found ways to make our peace and move on from
whatever the problem was because that's really all anyone CAN do and
stay sane!

So, I hope you can see why I'm a bit puzzled. If this is the same
Garry Kief I've known for the past 137 years, how is it possible you
don't know what you said or did to prompt their wanting to,
essentially, evict you from a concert? I'm not doubting you...I'm just
expressing my amazement that you could still not know what really
started all this.

And ... I sincerely hope you and Garry can find a way to make YOUR
peace and move on from this. You've obviously been to shows since
this one in question, so something must have been resolved. If that
is the case, why keep picking at old scabs and bleeding all over
again? Sharon, I'm not criticizing you...it's just that I hate to see
you re-living the pain, and your doing that here puts Garry into a
position where he feels he has to address it, and then - bam - you
guys are right back to where you were. Life is short. There's real
trouble in the world. This just isn't worth hanging onto this long.

And... if it hasn't been resolved .... resolve it! I wish you would
both talk to each other about it. No good ever came from unresolved
differences and bitter silences.

Sharon and Garry, please forgive my intrusion if you feel I posted out
of turn.

God bless -

Brenda

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 7, 1:10 am, Garry Kief <garryk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sharon....I believe you are the only person that anyone has ever asked
> to leave a show.

Ah, well, that makes it totally OK, then!

Oh, wait, *no*. It really, *really* doesn't.

[Kitten Mommy]

Well, what did you expect, Sharon? I mean, you *did* key up his car,
boil his pet bunny, and burn his house down.

Oh wait, no, I'm wrong. You gave him an owie on Usenet!

Yeah. Someone needs to look up "disproportionate retribution".

[Kitten Mommy]

On Jan 7, 11:59 am, Brenda M <bmesku...@aol.com> wrote:

> But, since both you and Garry are chiming in about this on a public
> forum, I'm throwing caution to the wind and just going for it here.

Yeah, I already opened my big fat mouth on this subject. I'm really
good at that, LOL.

[bookworm]

> to leave a show.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Hello Garry,

Sharon may be the only one you know of because I can testify to three
others finally made to leave one of the shows. It happened right in
front of me! They were drunk, loud, using foul language and disrupting
people around them and someone went to security to do something about
it. Security gave them a warning, they continued to disrupt everyone
and security finally made them leave. I was so happy because, up until
that point, no one around them was able to enjoy the show and those
tickets are expensive. It's bad enough when people are totally
inconsiderate of others in back of them by standing during the whole
show blocking others view without having to put up with other
rudeness. We PAY to be able to see Barry on stage, NOT put up with the
idiots who could care less about other people. jmho

Yes, we know Barry's shows are NOT an f-ing funeral as you have stated
but some courtesy to others who have spent their hard-earned money to
see the show goes a long way.

[Nash's Gramma]

Brenda, please don't play dumb. You were here when it all went down,
you read the review I posted, and you know what I said about it at the
time. I did not imply in my last post last night that I didn't KNOW
what caused it. I said I didn't understand what was so BAD about it.
And it wasn't Garry up in my face, it was Marc.

Garry and I have no issue. I never implied we did. Yes, it was Garry
who sent me an email after the fact, but as far as I know, Marc was
the one who read my review and decided it was just so incredibly vile
he had to verbally and almost physically assault me. I took no offense
at what Garry posted last night, and I'm sure he took no offense at
what I posted. If he did, he can contact me privately. He knows my
address.

I could address each of your points individually, but I won't. I'll
just say, that life isn't short. What we do in this life carries over
into eternity. And unless it happened to you, you can not begin to
know if it's worth hanging onto.

That's all I'm going to say about it.
CA Sharon

[Nash's Gramma]

On Jan 7, 9:10 am, Kitten Mommy <kittenmommysspamt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Thanks for making me smile.
CA Sharon

[Brenda M]

I wasn't "playing dumb" ... The way you wrote your post, I wondered if
I'd missed something. If this was all about your review then yes,
you're right, I did read it. I didn't think it was that bad ... I'm
thinking maybe Barry read it on a bad day?

I've written less than glowing reviews about his shows every now and
again and I've never been banned from a concert. So have other fans.
So...it is baffling, to say the least.

But I do have to say this:

Don't think for one minute Marc, Garry or any other "minion" does
something like that without Barry supporting it. If you do think that,
you're kidding yourself.

Hang in there. Again, I'm sorry if I offended you.

Brenda


Nash's Gramma wrote:

[Kitten Mommy]

You're welcome! :)