Elizabethan punishments
ke...@ibm.net
Years ago, the RPFS featured the kinds of public punishments to which
petty criminals were subjected in Elizabethan times. These included the
St. Catherine's Wheel, to which the prisoner was tied and spun around,
the Shame Cart, in which wrongdoers were paraded through town. There
were also stocks and pillories in which arrestees were confined until a
"fine" was paid.
These features have disappeared since the faire moved from Agoura. are
there any faires around the country in which one can see or experience
Elizabethan public punishments?
CatheB
ke...@ibm.net wrote:
>There
> were also stocks and pillories in which arrestees were confined until a
> "fine" was paid.
> These features have disappeared since the faire moved from Agoura. are
> there any faires around the country in which one can see or experience
> Elizabethan public punishments?
I remember them last year at Northern...you can bribe folks to do them
at the crossroads puritans area.
--
Life begins with a panic....so let's live a little.
http://home.pacbell.net/catheb
AFR Goddess of Sarcasm and Wench #312
chloe_...@wench.org http://www.wench.org
CatheB
PAXIMUS wrote:
>
> Well we have had "regular" hangings out at Southern for a few years now.
> Started in the Military camp and just this weekend their was one held at the
> front gate.
>
> Pax
> The Italians RPFS
ok you can take that leather strap off me now, pax.....
prrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
the subtle and shy, demure and virginal one.
PAXIMUS
PAXIMUS
CatheB wrote:
>
>ok you can take that leather strap off me now, pax.....<<
AHHH Only a little longer pleeeeaaassssseeee!!
>the subtle and shy, demure and virginal one.<<
Ah well now that explains it!! :)
Thanks for all the really nice things you said, even for making me blush like
that! In the words of the Bard:
I should make very forges of my cheeks, that would to cinders burn up modesty.
Pax
The Italians RPFS
http://members.aol.com/paximus/LaCompagnia/html
mice r.r.
On Mon, 04 May 1998 14:29:39 -0700, ke...@ibm.net wrote:
>Years ago, the RPFS featured the kinds of public punishments to which
>petty criminals were subjected in Elizabethan times. These included the
>St. Catherine's Wheel, to which the prisoner was tied and spun around,
>the Shame Cart, in which wrongdoers were paraded through town. There
>were also stocks and pillories in which arrestees were confined until a
>"fine" was paid.
>These features have disappeared since the faire moved from Agoura. are
>there any faires around the country in which one can see or experience
>Elizabethan public punishments?
Shame cart.. Actually Northern Faire still does have a shame cart. Its
one of my favortite gigs. Its put on by St, Helena's and is a form of
punishment by public ridicule. And is it ever ridiculous.
The guilty is tried several times with varying verdicts as she/he
makes her/his way through faire.Cart is done as humor but really does
seem cruel and unfunny at times, which I think is good. Any attempt at
historical accuracy is worth it, not everything is entertaining right?
anyways.. is that what you wanted?
in faith
mice r.r.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
mice mriv...@DELETETHISPARTccnet.com
rex http://www.ccnet.com/~mrivello/
rivello 650.340.0236
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
JEHardiman
>These features have disappeared since the faire moved from Agoura. are
>there any faires around the country in which one can see or experience
>Elizabethan public punishments?
>
>
Well I know there is a dunking gig at Sterling, NY. And look up St Gregory's
guild at most CA independent fairs. They do the Yeoman Warders / Kings Court's
gig, or is it a boothie, I never had that adequately explained... Anyway, 2
bucks and a willing participant will get said participant drubbed in the stocks
or put in irons. They should be a Valhalla two weekends hence.
John Hardiman
Sir Edwin Stewart
St Dismas Guild, The Border Reivers
Kevin P. Pelletier
The dunking pond at Sterling is indeed one of the more popular shows. If you
want to see it you need to arrive about 20 minutes early or your in the back
of a sea of people.
How do I know this? I'm one of the poor schmucks that volunteers to work the
chair. I've been doing it for years now. Hard work ... but the crowd LOVES
the show.
Kevin P. Pelletier aka Laird Cailean Carmichael aka Silverhawk
Scotsman, Dodhran Player, Dunker at Large
slvr...@lightlink.com or kp...@cornell.edu <-my new job!!!
"Life is a beach, then you fry. Everything in between is just sand, and sand
gets in EVERYTHING!" Eric Clements and ME!
KUJMAN1
We do a variety of punishment acts with our troupe from various medieval eras,
including stocks, the wheel, the punishment cart though town, right down to
goats licking brine (or molasses) off the soles of well-stocked bare foot
ale-knights, wenches, and vagrants.. as well as other such public
punishments........and alter it accordingly as so many faires vary in their
approach: some wish it to be lighthearted and some wish it to be deadly
serious.
After18 years, we have learned to adapt quickly and ad-lib as most seasoned
performers have, AND keep it FRESH! Which is most important for those return
visitors.We enjoy it all and take it in character.... but as mentioned by
another here> it is indeed hard work!
If you wish to know where you can witness our act, please email me as we are
approaching the CA market this season....
"To be bad mouthed by fools is the same as getting compliments
from wise men......"
Jas
KUJMAN1 wrote:
-----8<-----8<-----8<-----8<
>
> right down to
> goats licking brine (or molasses) off the soles of well-stocked bare foot
> ale-knights, wenches, and vagrants..
I LOVE it! I want one at home!
--
Please note spam block in place; address altered
--
Sláinte! - Jas [Lochlainn-RPFN] O'Growney
Solo Acoustic~Progressive Vocals and Guitars
I.S. Analyst-County of Butte-Dept of Public Works
Ann
Jas <j...@shocking.com> wrote:
>KUJMAN1 wrote:
>-----8<-----8<-----8<-----8<
>>
>> right down to
>> goats licking brine (or molasses) off the soles of well-stocked bare foot
>> ale-knights, wenches, and vagrants..
>
>I LOVE it! I want one at home!
>--
I can loan you a dog or cat (we aim to please) who'll lick your toes if that's
what you like?
Ann
aneffpleasedon'tspamatmindspringdotcom
Jas
It wouldn't be punishment if I liked it... would it? ;]
--
Please note spam block in place; address altered
--
Slįinte! - Jas [Lochlainn-RPFN] O'Growney
Clansman
Jas wrote:
>
> It wouldn't be punishment if I liked it... would it? ;]
Actually Jas, those are the best (and sometimes the cruelest) kinds of
punishments. *g*
Oh and congrats on your new interest...but I was just wondering why do
my lines work for everyone else but me?!?! <sigh>
Gareth, 5 lines for a dollar!
Jas
OH! I never got around to using it, Gareth! Well, there's always the
future! Seems I've been waxing poetic all on my own these last 2 weeks.
(and grinning like an idiot, sighing for no reason... It's ugly,
really...)
*:D (star struck)
--
Please note spam block in place; address altered
--
Sláinte! - Jas [Lochlainn-RPFN] O'Growney
SaraSmiley
I am a long-time lurker here and have actually never posted before now. I saw
Kujman1's announcement of his Elizabethan punishment act here in CA and was
MOST excited! I have a facination for law and government of the period and
looked forward to seeing an act perhaps. However.....what I have discovered
SHOCKED and scared me.
I did a quick check on infoseek, hoping against hope that Kujman1 had an
historical website that might also include his schedule. Instead, I found that
pictures of his act ARE indeed available...on an ADULT tickle fetish website.
?????!!!!!!??? Yes, I do mean "adult" in the sense of having to be over 21.
There are numerous shots of young women in stocks and garb.
<http:www.televar.com/~thawkins/kjpics.html>
At that point, I was naturally curious and did a quick check of dejanews....and
lo and behold this same man has posted on FETISH
newsgroups....alt.multimedia.tk, alt.torture and alt.sadistic. He uses these
newsgroups <it seems> to solicit. photos of tortured feet <posted to
alt.sadistic on 3/29/98> and to give advice to torturers on foot torture on
alt.torture <posted various times>
MY concern is what impact his proclivities have on me, the <previously> naive
Faire-goer. I would have been among the very first to witness and even
participate in Kujman1's "act" but now that I discover that photos and videos
of me could wind up on adult and fetish sites I say NO WAY!!!! Of special
concern was one recent post he madet <dated 5/1/98 and posted to
alt.multimedia.tk> he states:
"Our site will be up soon and we will be releasing several renFaire
videos.....including the infamous goats. Later in same post he says: "I will
be doing several new Tied and Tickled layouts....."
Excuse me?????? I attend the Faire with my two daughters <ages 14 and 11> and
the very IDEA that they could become fodder for a fetish SICKENS me. I
literally cannot fathom that this can go on here in CA <or anywhere else for
that matter> at what I *thought* was a family event.
Maybe Kujman1 is unaware that his material is being used on adult sites? Could
be.....but what am I to make of his own posts to sex fetish groups and the
referrence he makes to doing a "Tied and Tickled" <bondage mag???> layout? I
have never heard of him before, nor the types of newsgroups he posts to....but
now that I am aware I am deeply concerned.
Please understand....I am not putting him down for his "preferences", I am
simply saying....does the faire KNOW what happens to his material after the
faire?? Does the Faire KNOW he has more of an interest in his act than mere
history? More importantly do the participants know they run the risk of
showing up on adult sites and in a "soon to be released" video? This
information all stemmed from what was a genuine interest in attending his show,
and anyone who takes the time to do a dejanews search or a web search will find
the exact same information.
I am not saying not to see his act.....just do so with open eyes. Afterall,
THIS performer, at least, appears to have more at stake than a* family* event.
If not for his own posts I would have dismissed it and actually warned him that
his stuff was being used for sexual reasons....but his newsgroup posts seem to
verify that he not only is aware..he condones and encourages it.
Sigh......wonder if the Faire<s> he works know who he really is.......
Let's be careful oput there kiddies.....
Sara
NORMTUBA
Sarasmiley posts:
An interesting and disturbing post about Kujman1 and his act on Elizabethan
punishments.
(snip)
now that I am aware I am deeply concerned.
>Please understand....I am not putting him down for his "preferences", I
am>simply saying....does the faire KNOW what happens to his material after
the>faire?? Does the Faire KNOW he has more of an interest in his act than
mere>history? More importantly do the participants know they run the risk of
>showing up on adult sites and in a "soon to be released" video?
This>information all stemmed from what was a genuine interest in attending
his>show,>and anyone who takes the time to do a dejanews search or a web search
will>find>the exact same information.
I find this somewhat disturbing myself. Anybody have further information?
Margo Anderson
NORMTUBA wrote:
> I find this somewhat disturbing myself. Anybody have further information?
I can't address this particular case, but I do know that Ren Faires are
known amongst the SM community as a place to see bondage type
activities. Pictures from RPFN and RPFS have shown up in S&M and bondage
magazines. (Yes, I have seen them.) Some S&M clubs have organized
special "Day at the Faire" outings, too.
Was the original poster actually a participant, or is he a patron? If
he's a patron, there's not much that can be done, although the Faire
management might want to rethink whether they want these activities to
go on. I, for one, wouldn't participate in any such frolicking unless I
didn't mind if my picture showed up on the Web, or in a national
magazine.
Margo Anderson
SaraSmiley
>> I find this somewhat disturbing myself. Anybody have further information?
The only recommendation I could make is to do a search of dejanews. That is
how I ran across the information. What started as an excited search for
RenFaire sites became a scary trip indeed.
>Was the original poster actually a participant, or is he a patron? If
>he's a patron, there's not much that can be done, although the Faire
>management might want to rethink whether they want these activities to
>go on. I, for one, wouldn't participate in any such frolicking unless I
>didn't mind if my picture showed up on the Web, or in a national
>magazine.
The original poster I was referring to, Kujman1, appears to be a pperformer. I
do not know whether he is a v9olunteer or a patron, but he posted that he does
an act at CA Faires. I agree with you, however, that people should be aware
and go into things with their eyes open. I suppose I might be naive since it
never ocurred to me that SM types got a charge out of faire. I am all for
different strokes for different folks, but I still cannot help wondering if the
Faires Kujman1 works know about his "other" interests and his selling of videos
to the SM community. It also makes me wonder how many other acts at Faire have
a potential "other" side too.
Let's be careful out there kiddies!
Sara
KUJMAN1
To those "so concerned":
LOL, please get real facts and not fantasy. And don't blame me for others
posts. If you REALLY wanted info (and weren't just looking for attention), it
would be so simple to just..... oh, I dunno....ah.....lets say... contact ME???
But instead, you wish to start trouble on a newsgroup {again?} when no one has
heard of your before, which seems to be the game these days here on this
newsgroup, right?
Wrong! I think, once again, there are those who just want to start trouble in
this newgroup w/o ever getting any of the facts straight from the horse's
mouth. So be it, waste your time other places as our schedule is tight.
Suffice to say this is a FAMILY atmosphere and a family act> my own brother and
Mother have in years past worked in it.
If you take ANY renfaire act... from mudlslinging to pie-throwing... you will
find someone has turned it into something it isn't on a web somewhere. Who
knows what gets posted all over the web? I have no time for games like this. I
wonder how many Heather Locklear photos there are w/o her permission floating
around?
To help you sleep better at night, and because you are "so concerned" : there
is NO way in any photo we have ever taken any sexual reference at all in it or
such, nor child, nor film used w/o permission, or photo used w/o such, nor any
of the loony accusations these two are trying to stir up in regards to OUR
ACTUAL ACT.
Sex and renfaires do NOT go together (well, maybe at the campgrounds after
hours...but who knows? We hear strange sounds, but....). Plus I don't think
faires would allow us and beckon FOR us to appear after 20 some years if we
were that type of group.Nor would I be teaching at various faires for character
creation and such. Think about it.
To date, we have never even tried to sell a "tape" of our act. Our act is
copyrighted so others cant even do so. I HAVE sued twice sucessfully because of
that fact in order to stop others from selling tapes. In the past when others
ask for facts about punishments of a bygone era, I give them facts.They often
take them and alter them to their own tastes, as I said you can take any number
of activites and find that crap. I have no clue as to how to post photos or
videos to websites or newsgroups, I am not that techincally inclined nor do I
have the time. So go after them , not me.
Or, here's an idea! Why not stop EVERYONE who enters ANY renfaire in ANY state
from taking a camera with them. How's that?
This is an act of authenticity, not sexuality> a medieval re-creation of
characters, props and porportions that has taken years to perfect (just try to
get a goat to go along with your script!) and not a sexual perversion display
for use of selling a website... for filling RenfaireNG's with.... or for your
sexual amusement, "deeply concerned".
**NOwhere have I ever "condoned" sexual activity at a renfaire, with or w/o
others knowledge> I find these statements and posts libelous and will keep
copies of them should the need arise to use them and further posts, or loss of
work due TO these posts, occur.
Go play your games elsewhere....
KUJMAN1
I have addressed your libelous statements regarding our family act in a
post.....
Had you and "Sara" both been so actually deeply concerned, you could have
contacted me and gotten the truth about mis-posts and your interpretaions, but
instead you wanted to make a fight out of it in public? I guess that tells the
true story.
Needless to say the post and the letter to her will tell you more. Been at this
for 20 years now, act intact, and in demand. NON sexual..and no photo has ever
been used w/o permission or for purposes of sex in that manner. How you connect
a goat with sex is beyond me> That may be YOUR cup of tea, but not ours.
My Mother and brother (both in this act in the past and a part of it still) did
not find this post amusing. Nor did the Charity that we DONATE ALL OUR PROCEEDS
TO.
This may have been all innocent on your part, so I suggest you let it
drop...... BUT if I see more posts to the like, it will be considered libel,
and I will proceed from there as the act is copyrighted and protected by law,
and I will keep these posts for my attorney.
NORMTUBA
actions for those persons who apparently misuse your act and post photos of it
in inappropriate places. I'll take your word for it that your act is not
meant inappropriately. The fact is that there were some posts on the NG that
talked about whippings with the cat o' nine tails as part of Faire. I don't
particularly care for that idea, whatever the intent. There are certain
facets of reality I would just not as soon intrude on my Faire experience,
thank you very much. I and others are expressing our opinions. Last time
I looked, we had the right to do so without being called "fools".
LyfeORiley
>Was the original poster actually a participant, or is he a patron? If>he's a
patron, there's not much that can be done, although the Faire>management might
want to rethink whether they want these activities to>go on. I, for one,
wouldn't participate in any such frolicking unless I>didn't mind if my picture
showed up on the Web, or in a national>magazine.
>
Sure, they can do something about it. It's their faire, and if they want to say
"No acting or bits unless authorized by the E.D.", that is their right.
Maryland has just such a rule, and it makes it *so* much easier to deal with
people who are doing offensive bits. No faire should have to just suck it up if
a patron is doing a street bit as other patrons could assume that this person
is hired by the faire, and that the faire condones their behaviour.
Lynn
"Peg!" of the P.R.
LyfeORiley
Norm posted:
>Friend, I do recommend that you do not threaten on this NG. Save your
legal>actions for those persons who apparently misuse your act and post photos
of>it>in inappropriate places. I'll take your word for it that your act is
not>meant inappropriately. The fact is that there were some posts on the
NG>that>talked about whippings with the cat o' nine tails as part of Faire.
I don't
>particularly care for that idea, whatever the intent. There are
certain>facets of reality I would just not as soon intrude on my Faire
experience,>thank you very much. I and others are expressing our opinions.
Last>time>I looked, we had the right to do so without being called "fools".
Agreed and seconded...
As I stated in an earlier post, I would just as soon allow my daughter witness
a staged beheading or a person die with boils and sores all over them to
simulate the plague as I would allow her to witness a staged whipping. As
historically accurate as this may be, it is not what I would refer to as
"Family Entertainment", and it is this original post about a "whipping" to
which some of us are replying . I have *no* idea if you are the person who
originally posted about the "whipping" or not...but if you were, and now you
are calling yourself a "family" show...some of us would disagree. However, if
you're faire not only condones this, but sanctions it, well, you are within
your rights to do it. Just let me know at which faires you do this act so that
I can avoid them.
Margo Anderson
KUJMAN1 wrote:
>
BUT if I see more posts to the like, it will be considered libel,
> and I will proceed from there as the act is copyrighted and protected by law,
> and I will keep these posts for my attorney.
You have no grounds for a law suit. The first thing I said in my post
was that I couldn't comment on your act. THEN I went on to discuss the
issue of photographs of people who participate in "torture" or
"punishment" activities appearing on the Web in adult-rated sites, or in
magazines. This is a real issue that I think the participants in this
newsgroup deserve to know about.
"To be bad mouthed by fools is the same as getting compliments
> from wise men......"
Well, then, thank you for the compliment.
Margo Anderson
Margo Anderson
KUJMAN1 wrote:
>
> To date, we have never even tried to sell a "tape" of our act.
>
Go to this URL.
http://x8.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=349277727&CONTEXT=894999373.739180819&hitnum=17
So, are you saying this isn't you? Or is the "to date" your loophole?
Margo Anderson
Alex Mars
Hmmm... you're overly loud and scared, if you want my opinion. The original
post stating concerns about your act were reasonable and sober in my judgement.
No wild claims were made. You haven't denied that Your juvenile lawsuit
threats make me believe you have something to hide.
You haven't denied posting to "alternative lifestyle" groups, you haven't
denied offering videos from the faire or involvement with adult oriented web
sites. There is nothing wrong with any of this (my own tastes might be termed
'exotic'), but when you fly off the handle instead of just reassuring a worried
mother that you don't use pictures without permission you make yourself look
like a scumbag with something to hide.
BTW, do yourself a favour and look up the definition of libel. In my own
personal opinion, formed after reading your posts, you're an idiot.
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
Locklyn
Go Margo! I am highly amused to say the least. :) Makes you wonder about his
mom and brother being in on the act... Ewww...
Locklyn- Happily poking fun at the blatently lying...
Shadow
Subject: Re: Renfaire Tapes?
From: kuj...@aol.com (KUJMAN1)
Date: 1998/05/01
Message-ID: <199805010947...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
References: <199804301143...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.multimedia.tk
[Fewer Headers]
[Subscribe to alt.multimedia.tk]
*high 5's Margo*
You go !!! *smiles*
Silly silly person ... you should know better than to try to pull that
stunt in here ...
To catch a fool lying ... listen ...
Shadow-
Servo of Sarcastica, Demi god of film babbling.*smiles*
#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb))
"I don't have to tell you it goes without saying there are some things better left unsaid.
I think that speaks for itself. The less said about it the better." -George Carlin
SaraSmiley
> The original
>post stating concerns about your act were reasonable and sober in my
>judgement.
> No wild claims were made.
Thank you! It was not and is not my intent to create wild hysteria here or
anywhere else. I have said it before, and will again, I started by doing a
simple search in the hopes of finding a neat websight with historical
information. Why Kujman1 has reacted in such a defensive manner is beyond me.
>when you fly off the handle instead of just reassuring a worried
>mother that you don't use pictures without permission you make yourself look
>like a scumbag with something to hide.
This is a bit strongly worded, but I am forced to agree with the basic
sentiment. Kujman1 did contact me via e-mail as well, and even there he
accuses me of defaming him, denouncing him and talking to him like an idiot.
(Those are "his" words, not mine). He goes on to say that people post in his
name and that I must be "misinterpreting" his posts. <I gather he refers to the
sexual fetish group posts> ???
All I really have to say on this issue is that NO, I have no interest in
denouncing him or his act. I do not, however, believe for a second that 500
posts to sexual newsgroups <do a power search using author name Kujman1 and you
will also find this> are all faked. I am sorry, but that defies the laws of
reality. I never said he used children's pictures without their knowledge
(another claim from his e-mail). HOWEVER, I, as a mother, do NOT want my
daughters near a man who clearly gets a sexual charge from his "act" and (based
on his posts and replies so far) I would guess he knows that the Faires he
works would agree if they knew his "interest" in the act he does.
He said I wanted a public fight. That is not true, and I hope that is obvious.
What I wanted was to caution people, based on posts he has made about sharing,
publishing and selling videos etc, that one should always take care when taking
part in such an act. Prior to a few days ago it never would have occured to me
that there was anything untoward involved in such an act, but I do thank
Kujman1 for opening my eyes.
I agree with Peg, any Faire he would work I would like to avoid. That is based
not solely on his "act" but the demeanor he exhibits on the newsgroup.
Hopefully this puts an end to it all. Do your thing, Kujman1, just know that
some people here now know more about what that 'thing" is.
Margo Anderson
SaraSmiley wrote:
Kujman1 did contact me via e-mail as well,
Me too. Threatened to sue, demanded that I retract. I emailed him back
that (a) he has no grounds for a lawsuit and (b) I have nothing to
retract.
Then, after I posted again today, I got the identical email again.
Someone's running scared......
Actually, it could be amusing if he did try to sue. Not only am I
effectively penniless, I have several relatives who are attorneys and
would cheerfully defend me at no cost.
Margo Anderson
SaraSmiley
Margo Anderson wrote:
>SaraSmiley wrote:
> Kujman1 did contact me via e-mail as well,
>
>Me too. Threatened to sue, demanded that I retract. I emailed him back
>that (a) he has no grounds for a lawsuit and (b) I have nothing to
>retract.
That sounds hauntingly familiar, although I must say he was not quite that rude
to me. He did, however, say he was saving my posts so he can sue me if he
loses any performances. I politely informed him that the threat of suing me is
silly. Hopefully he will drop that idea now.
>Someone's running scared......>
It does seem so. I wonder if anyone from the CA Faire management reads these
boards? : -) I had a lot more sympathy for the man before he lied about the
video. That was plain old silly, as anyone can do a search and find the post.
>Actually, it could be amusing if he did try to sue. Not only am I
>effectively penniless, I have several relatives who are attorneys and
>would cheerfully defend me at no cost.
LOL As a single mom I can well relate to the penniless part! Kind of
convenient though, that my ex-husband is a lawyer. Knew he must have been good
for something! ; - )
Sara
: - )
ImWench157
>From: saras...@aol.com (SaraSmiley)
>obvious.
> What I wanted was to caution people, based on posts he has made about
>sharing,
>publishing and selling videos etc, that one should always take care when
>taking
>part in such an act.
I for one would like to say thank you for posting the information. There's
also ways to phrase a question seeking permission that might not totally
explain where they will end up. (Not that I'm accusing ANYBODY of doing
this!!) But if someone says "can I post this on our website?" I wouldn't think
anything of saying yes, but now I'll know to check the site FIRST.
Lisa
^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Wench #157
Demi Goddess of Romantic Guidance
Wenches Forever, Forever Wenches
Gleaming Gleen mad driving machine of Sarcastica, demi goddess of
defensive driving swears
Gaffer Applewright
>>>KUJMAN1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>> To date, we have never even tried to sell a "tape" of our act.
Talk about foot in mouth disease!!!
Shadow you are beautiful and we owe you much.
Shadow
>>>>KUJMAN1 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> To date, we have never even tried to sell a "tape" of our act.
>
>Talk about foot in mouth disease!!!
>
>Shadow you are beautiful and we owe you much.
>
Nope .. I take no credit for this one ..
I was just posting what I found at the link Margo posted .. she did
the work .. she deserves the credit for this one ..
*smiles*
Very good job ..
Shadow-
j.th...@mailexcite.com
In article <355964ca...@news.supernews.com>,
renth...@stampoutspam.hotmail.com (Shadow) wrote:
> Nope .. I take no credit for this one ..
>
> I was just posting what I found at the link Margo posted .. she did
> the work .. she deserves the credit for this one ..
>
> *smiles*
>
> Very good job ..
>
> Shadow-
Huzzah to both of you. Threats of legal action can be pretty daunting. I saw
the holes in his statements immediately (like, if I followed the links that
Sara pointed out, I saw what she promised. Eew). I'm glad, though, that you
two came through with your own strong defense.
Mr. Kujman,
Rather than villifying Sara, Shadow, and Margo, you would have done better to
thank them. As a long-standing member of the ren faire community, you should
be glad that they would point out any sites that may be misusing snapshots or
videos of your event. If the images were used without your permission, you
would have the strong backing of the law - but you *don't* have a strong
backing for your threats of suits for libel. Sara pointed out *facts* and
voiced her concern, like any good consumer. Deal with it in a professional
manner, with an eye toward the potential customer. Note, Mr. Kujman, Sara
*did* point out that she was a potential customer. Your reputation has been
more strongly damaged by your acid-toned reaction to this than it was by the
stills and snapshots.
-Jenny the Angry Patron
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
K. Kalani Patterson
On 12 May 1998 22:32:03 GMT, saras...@aol.com (SaraSmiley) wrote:
>I agree with Peg, any Faire he would work I would like to avoid. That is based
>not solely on his "act" but the demeanor he exhibits on the newsgroup.
>Hopefully this puts an end to it all. Do your thing, Kujman1, just know that
>some people here now know more about what that 'thing" is.
>
>Let's be careful out there kiddies!
FYI:
No judgment calls either way, here, but for the record this person
does NOT do shows at RPFS/N. It seems he works the CA small Faire
circuit, which has always been considerably more lax about such
things. If I had to guess, I would say the NoCal small Faire circuit,
for that matter, because the stocks that I have seen at SoCal events
have mostly been fun ones for show at the military guilds... pay two
bucks and get your friend arrested, thrown in the stocks, and doused
with water (much fun! ;->).
-slàinte-
-Kalani
A.F.R God of Mischief and Ren Rats
Flirticus of Sarcastica, Keeper of the Cleavage Peepers
Newest Convert to the Cult of Chucklehead
.
\O
._/
| \_;
' `
LyfeORiley
>>I agree with Peg, any Faire he would work I would like to avoid. That
is>based>>not solely on his "act" but the demeanor he exhibits on the
newsgroup. >>Hopefully this puts an end to it all. Do your thing, Kujman1,
just know>that>>some people here now know more about what that 'thing" is.
>
>FYI:
>
>No judgment calls either way, here, but for the record this person>does NOT do
shows at RPFS/N. It seems he works the CA small Faire>circuit, which has
always been considerably more lax about such>things. If I had to guess, I
would say the NoCal small Faire circuit,>for that matter, because the stocks
that I have seen at SoCal events>have mostly been fun ones for show at the
military guilds... pay two>bucks and get your friend arrested, thrown in the
stocks, and doused>with water (much fun! ;->).
>
>-slàinte-
>
>-Kalani
And "Peg!" would just like to clarify...I said "If" this was indeed the same
person who posted about the "whippings", that I would like to know which faires
he does so I can avoid his "act"...conversly, if he does NOT do public
whippings, or anything like it, then my commentary is NOT aimed at him.
Just wanted to make the distinction...
KUJMAN1
Only to those of you with such small minds who have posted on this thread,
obviously grouped together>
This original answer was for a specific question... then out of the blue
someone runs a check on "me" suppossedly and finds a lot of crap which isn't
even me, but another poster.
Then "She" starts with accusations that small minds pick up upon.
We have a pretty good idea who this is, and some of you have fallen for it.
Think of this> doesnt it make you wonder: do you ALWAYS run a check on EVERY
poster here Sara & company? Really makes a lot of us wonder.
Now, had you come to me first you would have had the facts, not fantasy. I
don't sell tapes or photos and I don't care what others say or do: I know as I
have the tapes, we use them for training at Renaissance classes we teach Each
Spring. Ah... what is it YOU teach? Gossip & Rumor 101?
Another point is that we are NOT allowed to break character for any purpose,
much less grab a video camera or what not. But, as with many here, you just
want attention or to start trouble. Neither which matters to me because we are
too busy at faires and whether you come or not make little matter to us as I
doubt you are even a part of this comunity, rather just another sicko from
another NG looking for trouble.. so we wont be continuing this ridiculous
thread, "Sara, Shadow, and whomever"
I said my piece, backed up by fact (unlike you who post bits and addresess of
weird places that they "claim" not to be into yet "seem" to have, and photos
that are NOT posted by me), so I won't sit here after all these years and argue
with "cliques" or the nimble-minded who do little and don't get their facts
straight about an act they even admit to not having seen.
Simply put: No proper faire would allow a "sexual act" of the nature as was
reported. Simple and true.We've had too much of this nonsense and "phoney
postings" on this Newsgroups as it is.... **and none of this was directed at
anyone but he ones who directed at US without so much as asking me nor the
benefit of the doubt....
We don't appreciate anyone posting their "fantasized description" of our act
when they have not seen it, nor have we had any problem hence with it, again
you have done this for the mere fact of "needing attention" such as it seems
you all do..
And for "holes in my story"...ah... that really makes us LOL! Your
shock-treatment time must be due again Half-wit!.... Better re-check your
facts and posts. Or better yet- just go on like you already are with your
inuendos and lies instead of the truth. I just pass them along to my attorney
and let the chips fall where they may.
As for legal standing, if you can say what you wish to, then I can say as I
wish on this group. Know this, I need only to prove loss of reputation or work
for libel suits, one of which I could easily do as you have all hepled me to do
so. So just keep it up and see where it goes. We can go either route. Either
way, we win.
Also, either way, I still wont be selling material or videos. So don't hold
your breath.
As for "whipping" in a scene> we have never done it, never would. You folks are
getting really sick now.
Maybe your bodices are laced too tightly.
Get a grip on reality and get back to your booths.
KUJMAN1
>wrote:
> Kujman1 did contact me via e-mail as well,
>
>Me too. Threatened to sue, demanded that I retract. I emailed him back
>that (a) he has no grounds for a lawsuit and (b) I have nothing to
>retract.
>
>
>Someone's running scared......
>
>effectively penniless, I have several relatives who are attorneys and
>would cheerfully defend me at no cost.
>
Ah, as for running scared? then...ah...why am I STILL here? <<quivering as he
types>>
I think you will need all the attorneys you can get.
My email to you was to the point, unlike what you have posted here and you
still seek attention, and asked the very simple questions to every one of you
( if you aren't all the same person):
WHY didn't you just ask me first off rather than post all this Bull?? Or run
these phoney checks on posters?
A question you can't answer....
See you at the faire.
KUJMAN1
>No judgment calls either way, here, but for the record this person
>does NOT do shows at RPFS/N. It seems he works the CA small Faire
>circuit, which has always been considerably more lax about such
>things. If I had to guess, I would say the NoCal small Faire circuit,
>for that matter, because the stocks that I have seen at SoCal events
>have mostly been fun ones for show at the military guilds... pay two
>bucks and get your friend arrested, thrown in the stocks, and doused
>with water (much fun! ;->).
>
>-slàinte-
>
>-Kalani
>Flirticus of Sarcastica, Keeper of the Cleavage Peepers
>Newest Convert to the Cult of Chucklehead
>
>
hello...
For your own peace of mind, and just to let you know the facts and not the
nonsense, we are not appearing in CA currently, nor have we... we do NOT sell
tapes for whatever purpose these folks are trying to imply that we do.......
and we have been doing this act for 22 years...
From info just received, we believe this to be one person who auditioned for
our troupe and was turned down..so now they start all this crapola. the minds
of children. We have more historically acurrate info and performances to attend
to rather than play their games.
No faire in its right mind would allow such tom-foolery as they have stated,
and I doubt they are a part of any faire that is of any worthiness.
Thanks for the time......
Shadow
On 14 May 1998 00:10:16 GMT, kuj...@aol.com (KUJMAN1) wrote:
>Only to those of you with such small minds who have posted on this thread,
>obviously grouped together>
*note how the offender, trapped in a corner, begins to use name
calling as a means to distract from the true issues at hand*
>This original answer was for a specific question... then out of the blue
>someone runs a check on "me" suppossedly and finds a lot of crap which isn't
>even me, but another poster.
Results .. Deja News search for anyone posting using the email address
kuj...@aol.com :
1. 98/05/12 030 Re: Deeply Concerned<was: Re alt.fairs.renaissance
KUJMAN1
2. 98/05/12 030 Re: Deeply Concerned<was: Re alt.fairs.renaissance
KUJMAN1
3. 98/05/10 029 Re: renfaire clips alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
4. 98/05/07 028 Re: Elizabethan punishments alt.fairs.renaissance
KUJMAN1
5. 98/05/07 028 Re: foot tickling alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
6. 98/05/07 028 Re: foot tickling alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
7. 98/05/06 028 Re: Renfaire Tapes? alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
8. 98/05/06 028 Re: Chinese torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
9. 98/05/01 027 Re: Renfaire Tapes? alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
10. 98/04/21 026 Re: ???RONTICKLE??? alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
11. 98/04/21 026 Re: Believe it or Not Foot T alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
12. 98/02/11 026 Re: itching powder torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
13. 98/02/11 026 Re: Thanks KJ!!! :c) alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
14. 98/02/11 026 Re: TK: Kuj on Vamp alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
15. 98/04/08 025 Re: itching alt.torture
KUJMAN1
16. 98/04/02 025 Re: HARD FOOT TORTURE alt.sadistic
KUJMAN1
17. 98/03/02 025 Re: Foot torture gone crazy alt.torture
KUJMAN1
18. 98/02/26 025 Re: in supprt of #1/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
19. 98/02/26 025 Re: in supprt of #2/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
20. 98/02/25 025 Re: Serial Christian is gay alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
21. 98/02/25 025 Re: To Tklmeplez Re: KJ and alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
22. 98/02/25 025 Re: To Tklmeplez Re: KJ and alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
23. 98/02/25 025 Re: To Tklmeplez Re: KJ #1/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
24. 98/02/25 025 Re: To Tklmeplez Re: KJ #2/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
25. 98/02/25 025 Re: To Tklmeplez Re: KJ and alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
26. 98/02/25 025 Re: TK TROLLING 101 - xtczne alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
27. 98/02/25 025 Re: WANTED: PICS OF BLACK FE alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
28. 98/02/25 025 Re: Don't threaten me bub! alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
29. 98/02/25 025 Re: Don't threaten me bub! alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
30. 98/02/25 025 Re: Don't threaten me bub! alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
31. 98/02/25 025 Re: Don't threaten me bub! alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
32. 98/02/25 025 Re: Don't threaten me bub! alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
33. 98/02/25 025 Re: Don't threaten me bub! alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
34. 98/02/25 025 Re: Severe foot Torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
35. 98/02/25 025 Re: TO KUJMAN: WANTED: PICS alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
36. 98/02/23 025 Re: Rontickl on Kujman and F alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
37. 98/02/22 025 Re: Rontickl on Kujman and F alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
38. 98/02/22 025 Re: WHAT IS THIS...THE M/M T alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
39. 98/02/22 025 Re: To Tklmeplez Re: KJ and alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
40. 98/02/21 025 Re: tk Newlywed Game alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
41. 98/02/21 025 Re: Don't threaten me bu#1/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
42. 98/02/21 025 Re: Don't threaten me bu#2/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
43. 98/02/21 025 Re: Bishop Pics - Anyone hav alt.sadistic
KUJMAN1
44. 98/02/21 025 Re: itching powder torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
45. 98/02/21 025 Re: TK: Tickle Bloopers alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
46. 98/02/19 025 Re: Foot bondage/torture vid alt.personals.bondage
KUJMAN1
47. 98/02/18 025 Re: DJame/Kujman alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
48. 98/02/18 025 Re: My Ren. Fair Tickling, a alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
49. 98/02/18 025 Re: My Ren. Fair Tickling, a alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
50. 98/02/18 025 Re: Rontickl on Kujman and F alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
51. 98/02/18 025 Re: Rontickl on Kujman a#1/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
52. 98/02/18 025 Re: Rontickl on Kujman a#2/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
53. 98/02/18 025 Re: My Ren. Fair Ticklin#1/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
54. 98/02/18 025 Re: My Ren. Fair Ticklin#2/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
55. 98/02/18 025 Re: TK: Copyright: The FINAL alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
56. 98/02/17 025 Re: DJame/Kujman alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
57. 98/02/17 025 Re: My Ren. Fair Tickling, a alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
58. 98/02/16 025 Re: itching powder torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
59. 98/02/16 025 Re: My Ren. Fair Tickling, a alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
60. 98/02/16 025 Re: My Ren. Fair Tickling, a alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
61. 98/02/16 025 Re: TK: A question for the " alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
62. 98/02/16 025 Re: TK: KUJ on JOEYLOSER alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
63. 98/01/31 025 TK: Kuj on Vamp #1/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
64. 98/01/31 025 TK: Kuj on Vamp #2/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
65. 98/01/30 025 Re: Tracey's Golden Invitati alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
66. 98/01/30 025 TK: KUJ on JOEYLOSER #1/3 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
67. 98/01/30 025 TK: KUJ on JOEYLOSER #2/3 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
68. 98/01/30 025 TK: KUJ on JOEYLOSER #3/3 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
69. 98/01/30 025 TK: KUJMAN speaks out no#1/4 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
70. 98/01/30 025 TK: KUJMAN speaks out no#2/4 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
71. 98/01/30 025 TK: KUJMAN speaks out no#3/4 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
72. 98/01/30 025 TK: KUJMAN speaks out no#4/4 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
73. 98/01/30 025 Re: itching powder torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
74. 98/01/30 025 Re: Snoreing over KJ issue b alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
75. 98/01/30 025 Re: Snoreing over KJ issue b alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
76. 98/01/30 025 TK: Ticklefan #1/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
77. 98/01/30 025 TK: Ticklefan #2/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
78. 98/01/30 025 Re: TK: TklTracy RE: LOL#1/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
79. 98/01/30 025 Re: TK: TklTracy RE: LOL#2/2 alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
80. 98/01/27 025 Re: A.N.A. - TICKLING ACADEM alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
81. 98/01/27 025 Re: TK: RE: Trekster on KUJM alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
82. 98/01/27 025 Re: TK: KUJMAN alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
83. 98/01/27 025 Re: TK: New Kujman! New Kujm alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
84. 98/01/27 025 Re: Trekster gives in alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
85. 98/01/25 025 Re: kurt alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
86. 98/01/25 025 Re: Hey Sheryl...time for an alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
87. 98/01/18 025 Re: A question alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
88. 98/01/18 025 Re: Trekster gives in alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
89. 98/01/18 025 Re: Trekster gives in alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
90. 98/01/18 025 Re: TK: Kujman, et al alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
91. 98/01/18 025 Re: TK: concreteman alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
92. 98/01/18 025 Re: Tickled on Drugs? alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
93. 98/01/18 025 Re: TK: Tickling Video Clip alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
94. 98/01/10 025 Re: Fellow Ticklers, I am SI alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
95. 98/01/10 025 Re: Fellow Ticklers, I am SI alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
96. 98/01/10 025 Re: Fellow Ticklers, I am SI alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
97. 97/11/28 025 Re: feet flame torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
98. 97/11/28 025 Re: Feet eating alt.torture
KUJMAN1
99. 97/11/28 025 Re: Witchtrials alt.torture
KUJMAN1
100. 97/11/28 025 Re: Witchtrials alt.torture
KUJMAN1
101. 97/12/12 025 ATTN: Francois.Arsenault alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
102. 97/12/12 025 Re: Help about this pic alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
103. 97/12/06 025 Re: Help about this pic alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
104. 97/12/06 025 Re: KUJMAN, WHAT COMMERCIAL alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
105. 97/12/06 025 Re: foot torment notes by Ma alt.torture
KUJMAN1
106. 97/12/02 025 Re: KUJMAN, WHAT COMMERCIAL alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
107. 97/12/02 025 re: solefully yours beach ti alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
108. 97/12/02 025 re: solefully yours beach ti alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
109. 97/12/02 025 Re: TK: Mainstream 70's comm alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
110. 97/12/02 025 Re: TK: Is there ever going alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
111. 97/12/02 025 Re: itching powder alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
112. 97/12/02 025 Re: M4M tickling alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
113. 97/12/02 025 Re: Bondage Questionnare alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
114. 97/12/02 025 Re: Buried In Sand alt.torture
KUJMAN1
115. 97/12/02 025 Re: soles alt.torture
KUJMAN1
116. 97/12/02 025 Re: Bastinado/Foot tortures/ alt.torture
KUJMAN1
117. 97/12/02 025 Re: Bastinado/Foot tortures/ alt.torture
KUJMAN1
118. 97/12/02 025 Re: Witchtrials alt.torture
KUJMAN1
119. 97/12/02 025 Re: Witchtrials alt.torture
KUJMAN1
120. 97/12/02 025 Re: Feet eating alt.torture
KUJMAN1
121. 97/12/02 025 Re: feet flame torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
122. 97/12/02 025 Re: feet flame torture alt.torture
KUJMAN1
123. 97/11/28 025 Re: bastinado alt.torture
KUJMAN1
124. 97/11/28 025 Bastinado/Foot tortures/Tick alt.torture
KUJMAN1
125. 97/11/28 025 Re: BAC-New Foot Tickling Ph alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
126. 97/11/28 025 Re: TK: Mainstream 70's comm alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
127. 97/11/28 025 re: solefully yours beach ti alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
128. 97/11/28 025 Re: TK: La Verite(a)?? alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
129. 97/12/20 024 Re: WHY NEW JERSEY? alt.torture
KUJMAN1
130. 97/12/20 024 Re: bastinado alt.torture
KUJMAN1
131. 97/12/20 024 Re: Help about this pic alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
132. 98/03/31 017 Re: FOOT TORTURE alt.sadistic
KUJMAN1
133. 98/03/29 017 Re: Hackner alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
134. 98/03/29 017 FOOT TORTURE alt.sadistic
KUJMAN1
135. 98/03/29 017 FOOT TORTURE alt.torture
KUJMAN1
136. 98/03/14 017 Re: Historic tickling alt.multimedia.tk
KUJMAN1
137. 98/03/13 017 Re: Hanging by thumbs? alt.torture
KUJMAN1
138. 98/03/07 017 Re: Hanging by thumbs? alt.torture
KUJMAN1
Hmmm .. You've been busy lately bud ...
>Then "She" starts with accusations that small minds pick up upon.
See point made above ...
>We have a pretty good idea who this is, and some of you have fallen for it.
Attempt to destroy the credibilty of your accusers by alienating those
who believe them .. Tell me .. have you ever read Shakespear ?
>Think of this> doesnt it make you wonder: do you ALWAYS run a check on EVERY
>poster here Sara & company? Really makes a lot of us wonder.
Nope .. doesn't make me wonder at all .. In fact its on of the reasons
I love this NG .. people look out for each other .. and when someone
follows a link and finds something that makes them question the
integrity of the poster and/or thier intentions .. they are not afraid
to post it.. We look out for each other in here sir .. Alot of us have
kids that attend faire with us ..and many make their LIVING working
faires ..and anything that threatens the faire or the image that it
brings into each community it exists within is a threat to us all.
>Now, had you come to me first you would have had the facts, not fantasy. I
>don't sell tapes or photos and I don't care what others say or do: I know as I
>have the tapes, we use them for training at Renaissance classes we teach Each
>Spring. Ah... what is it YOU teach? Gossip & Rumor 101?
Subject: Re: renfaire clips
From: kuj...@aol.com (KUJMAN1)
Date: 1998/05/10
Message-ID: <199805100734...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
References: <199805100306...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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><HTML><PRE>im looking for renfaire stock tickling video clips if any one has
>any can you
>please send them to me or tell me where i can get some please
Hello again,
As I told you both in post and in emai to save you timel, as you said
you sought real renfaire clips and not posed nor faked videos of this
action, that the only renfaire videos are ours [no ego intended
please] and we will be releasing them through our website as soon as
it is open in a couple of weeks.
Please email me further if you have any other questions about them.
"To be bad mouthed by fools is the same as getting compliments
from wise men......"
**********************************************************************************************************
Subject: Re: Renfaire Tapes?
From: kuj...@aol.com (KUJMAN1)
Date: 1998/05/01
Message-ID: <199805010947...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
References: <199804301143...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.multimedia.tk
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[Subscribe to alt.multimedia.tk]
>
>Is there anyone who knows where I can buy renfaire tickling tapes, or any
>tapes
>of women dressed in medevil attire being tickled in stocks, the stretching
>table, or any type of tickle torture structure. I would be very
>interested(real
>tickling and real ticklish women only please) It would be very much
>appreciated.
>
>thanks,
>
>Couchhman<
Hi Couch.......
Our site will be up soon, and we will be releasing several Renfaire
videos....
including the infamous goats. We are about the only ones who have them
(real
ones, nothing faked or acted) except for the bootleg copy stolen from
me by a
prominent member of tickling years back....... and that was hacked to
pieces an
ruined. The original will also be available.
Should you be able to travel, please join us to make more videos of
this
nature. I will be doing several new Tied & Tickled layouts, so I will
sandwich
in between all that crap.
"To be bad mouthed by fools is the same as getting compliments
from wise men......"
**************************************************************************************************
>Another point is that we are NOT allowed to break character for any purpose,
>much less grab a video camera or what not
Gee .. I must be more talented than I give myself credit for. I shot 3
performers acts on video from behind or above the crowd last year .. I
doubt seriously if anyone saw me or paid any attention to me.
>. But, as with many here, you just
>want attention or to start trouble. Neither which matters to me because we are
>too busy at faires and whether you come or not make little matter to us as I
>doubt you are even a part of this comunity,
If by community you mean the faire community .. you would be sadly
mistaken. If you mean geographical location, then, at least in my
case, you would be correct. The fact that you are too busy at faires
may be remedied as well .. I intend to forward this thread and the
results of my searches of the www and usenet to faire managment in
your area ..as well as perhaps the local authorities if I manage to
find anyone who even ***looks*** Under 18 in the pictures you have as
samples .. I think the faires would be interested to know that,
regardless of content, materials filmes on their premises are being
pandered and they are not recieving commission or compensation.
>rather just another sicko from
>another NG looking for trouble.. so we wont be continuing this ridiculous
>thread, "Sara, Shadow, and whomever"
Well ..I do congratulate you on the choice to do at least one good
thing here.
>I said my piece, backed up by fact (unlike you who post bits and addresess of
>weird places that they "claim" not to be into yet "seem" to have, and photos
>that are NOT posted by me),
Well .. here are better than bits of addresses sir ..
*refer to full clips above*
> so I won't sit here after all these years and argue
>with "cliques" or the nimble-minded who do little and don't get their facts
>straight about an act they even admit to not having seen.
Thats okay .. I'll cross post to your multi-media groups as well so
that you don't miss this ..
>
>Simply put: No proper faire would allow a "sexual act" of the nature as was
>reported. Simple and true.We've had too much of this nonsense and "phoney
>postings" on this Newsgroups as it is.... **and none of this was directed at
>anyone but he ones who directed at US without so much as asking me nor the
>benefit of the doubt....
I never asked you because I never has any question .. your posts speak
for themselves ...
>
>We don't appreciate anyone posting their "fantasized description" of our act
>when they have not seen it, nor have we had any problem hence with it, again
>you have done this for the mere fact of "needing attention" such as it seems
>you all do..
Could be .. But then again .. I could just be doing it because I have
FUN doing it ..
>And for "holes in my story"...ah... that really makes us LOL! Your
>shock-treatment time must be due again Half-wit!.... Better re-check your
>facts and posts. Or better yet- just go on like you already are with your
>inuendos and lies instead of the truth. I just pass them along to my attorney
>and let the chips fall where they may.
Bring em on bud ... I'll pass this one along to TOS at Aol ...
>As for legal standing, if you can say what you wish to, then I can say as I
>wish on this group. Know this, I need only to prove loss of reputation or work
>for libel suits, one of which I could easily do as you have all hepled me to do
>so. So just keep it up and see where it goes. We can go either route. Either
>way, we win.
>
>Also, either way, I still wont be selling material or videos. So don't hold
>your breath.
Hmmm .. I cant wait to send this one to alt.multimedia.uk .. Your fans
will be soo dissapointed since you have promised them so much .. and
always seem to be so fast in hammering the people in those groups that
you feel the need to label as imposters ... Boy .. are they going to
have fun with you ..
>
>As for "whipping" in a scene> we have never done it, never would. You folks are
>getting really sick now.
Hey now !! to each his own .. *g*
>
>Maybe your bodices are laced too tightly.
*thats the BEST you could come up with ?? I suggest you check my page
for my pic*
>Get a grip on reality and get back to your booths.
I don't dabble too much in reality .. but every once in a while an
opportunity presents itself that cannot be passed up.
>
>
>
>"To be bad mouthed by fools is the same as getting compliments
> from wise men......"
Now then ... To those of you who have suffered through this thread ..
I ask you not to take my word for it .. go to www.dejanews.com and do
a "power wearch" on author kuj...@aol.com and see what you find ..
then make your own descisions.
To quote mr kuj...@aol.com from post :
Subject: Re: Don't threaten me bub!
From: kuj...@aol.com (KUJMAN1)
Date: 1998/02/25
Message-ID: <19980225073...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
References: <19980225035...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
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Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.multimedia.tk
"you just learned too late that we are ten steps ahead of you. You
should have waited and learned more.Because YOU are twisted doesnt
make OTHERS as twisted. Folks like you never last too long, seen them
come and go....yet I am STILL HERE. There is TRUTH in longevity!
BUSTED!! Put that tail back between your legs and scurry away now..."
and I think that says it all ... .
Shadow-
Servo of Sarcastic, demi-god of film babbling
Slayer of Spammers
WinterWulf
FYI, Mr. Kujman...
I've been reading this thread with some interest. And regardless of whether or
not your intentions truly are simple, family-grade entertainment or something
significantly sicker, I think there are a couple things of which you need to be
made aware, before you get any more footprints on your tonsils:
1) Just because you don't "grab a video camera" while in costume and in full
view of a hundred patrons doesn't *prove* you're not taping your show. You
could easily be having a helper, either garbed from a hidden vantage point, or
in mundanes right in the crowd, taking care of the video duties. The gods know
there are enough cameras and camcorders on site at most faires any given day;
who's to say none of the owners are affiliated with you? Please understand:
I'm not personally accusing you of taping your show - all I'm doing is pointing
out that you have yet adequately to prove you aren't.
2) <<Neither which matters to me because we are
too busy at faires and whether you come or not make little matter to us as I
doubt you are even a part of this comunity, rather just another sicko from
another NG looking for trouble.. so we wont be continuing this ridiculous
thread, "Sara, Shadow, and whomever">>
If by this, you wish to imply that Sara, Shadow and whomever (I'll throw Margo
in here as well, for her admirable posts) isn't part of the RenFaire community,
or worse, the AFR community (for such we are), then I am compelled to point out
that AFR has seen more of any of them than we have of you, and to continue to
malign them only further damages your own reputation.
2A) For my part, I will avoid your shows *and* commend Shadow's efforts in
bringing your own posts to the attention of both AOL and the managements of
whatever faires at which you are employed. If you suffer any loss of
attendance to your shows or damage to your reputation, I submit that your own
attitude in your posts has been enough to guarantee that. Your wild threats of
lawsuits (as though they would somehow solve your problems) draw to mind images
of red-faced maniacs frothing at the mouth. I *was* giving you the benefit of
the doubt until I saw you behaving like a raving jerk.
3) Lastly, if by some mundo bizarro twist of fate, someone else IS using your
AOL screenname freely throughout the internet, perhaps you would be better
served by changing your passwords once in a while rather than taking the ire
for your lack of net-sense out on the rest of us?
Wulfie
/\ /\
(o o)
(( O ))
\_/
U
Woof!
SaraSmiley
Thanks and a heart huzzah to those who have written to thank me for the
original post. Truly, I never intended this to become such a long thread here.
It started out as a simple cautionary statement. Unfortunately, it has led to
numerous e-mails from Kujman1 that range from threats to insinuations about my
"motivations". That does not bother me, but when he stated
> we believe this to be one person who auditioned for
>our troupe and was turned down..,
I have to say, this is not true. Unless he is not referring to me, but even
then I question the truth of the claim. Much as I wish I could work at a Faire
(in any capacity), as a single mother with a full-time job it is not posible.
Kujman1 also included another lie in the post I refer to when he stated:
>For your own peace of mind, and just to let you know the facts and not the
>nonsense, we are not appearing in CA currently, nor have we...
He said this despite the following clip from a post HE made on this very
newsgroup on May 7th:
>If you wish to know where you can witness our act, please email me as we are
approaching the CA market this season....>
(the entire post can be found at
:http://x1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=351135792&CONTEXT=895122286.528744472
&hitnum=3)
The evidence of his lie about not selling videos was already covered by another
person here, so there is no reason for me to repeat myself. I find it amusing
that Kujman1 tries to say he is not the author of such posts. Either he really
does believe someone else is using his name (in which case, being so law-suit
oriented I find it incredulous that he would not be up in arms to find and
prosecute the supposed "imposter" poster) or he is a compulsive liar. I will
leave it to the readers of the NG to decide.
I am genuinely sorry to continue this thread, but as I said the other day, I
have less and less sympathy for this man with each lie he tells.
Sara
= - )
cper...@nothinbut.net
In article <199805140010...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
kuj...@aol.com (KUJMAN1) wrote:
> This original answer was for a specific question... then out of the blue
> someone runs a check on "me" suppossedly and finds a lot of crap which isn't
> even me, but another poster.
So you're not kuj...@aol.com? That's who posted the "lot of crap"
you're referring to. If you're not kuj...@aol.com, one of you is
impersonating the other. I suggest one of you look into it.
Or perhaps you're saying that you're not thaw...@televar.com? You
certainly _sound_ like him:
This is from http://www.televar.com/~thawkins/renstory.html
>Through our appearances of course, these Faires include representing the
>law of the times (we are the only ones doing the act due to copyrights,etc.),
Boy, this sure sounds like you - the same claim that you've got a
copyright to your public display of your private fantasies is the key.
Not private fantasies, you say?
> By proof now I dont mean rumors or the fantasies that we all create in
> private sessions with other equipment.
Know this: that you are arguing with the wrong people, and with the
wrong tactics. Rennies don't give a fig for what other people do
in private, but we do care about the truth, and you're lying.
> Another point is that we are NOT allowed to break character for any purpose,
> much less grab a video camera or what not.
Here you're possibly not lieing, but you're clearly trying to mislead -
are you even aware that just a few lines above, you were telling us
that you _had_ the videos, and used them for training? Here you're
trying to make us believe that you can't make a video.
I think you've been smoking too much pot, Tom Hawkins.
> Also, either way, I still wont be selling material or videos. So don't hold
> your breath.
So you were lying to poor couchman?
> "To be bad mouthed by fools is the same as getting compliments
> from wise men......"
Please badmouth me.
Cornelius
cper...@nothinbut.net
In article <199805140023...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
kuj...@aol.com (KUJMAN1) wrote:
> For your own peace of mind, and just to let you know the facts and not the
> nonsense, we are not appearing in CA currently,
This is probably true. He's in Washington, so the CA fairs are a bit of
a drive for him.
> nor have we... we do NOT
> sell tapes for whatever purpose these folks are trying to imply that we
>do.......
More of the big lie. You may claim to not _now_ be selling tapes,
but you have promised on another newsgroup to do so in the near future.
> and we have been doing this act for 22 years...
An interesting claim from a guy who looks like he's in his thirties,
unless the picture on your webpage is old.
> We have more historically acurrate info and performances to
> attend to rather than play their games.
God forbid that you do your act at a historically accurate
fair. Your own web page admits that you don't have any proof
for the ludicrous notion that punishment in the stocks involved
tickling, at least not proof in the sense of references or
mentions-in-period. Just ... what was it? rumours and
sexual fantasies?
> "To be bad mouthed by fools is the same as getting compliments
> from wise men......"
Please badmouth me. I've had a tough couple of months. I could
use the good press.
NORMTUBA
Re Kujman1
If y'all remember, I recommended to our friend Mr. Kujman1 that he not threaten
folks on this NG. By this point, I reckon he has found out why I made it.
He should know by now that we don't bully worth a damn and we have no
hesitation to show up liars.
This thread has shown me yet once again why I am pleased and proud to belong to
this group. There is a hell of a lot of integrity and guts and common sense
that has been shown in dealing with this particular pain in the tush. Good
to know that somewhere in this world are some people with real integrity and
the willingness to stand up and be counted and do the right thing.
LyfeORiley
Wulfie posted:
> I'm not personally accusing you of taping your show - all I'm > doing is
pointing out that you have yet adequately to prove you > aren't.
OK Wulfie...you know I love yas, so, keep that in mind while I point out the
one and only flaw in your logic...One *cannot* prove that something does *not*
exist. Only that something *does* exist. A negative cannot be proven...what
evidence could he produce to convince anyone that a video did *not* exist?
'Kay, I'm done playing devils advocate...
LyfeORiley
Can anyone please fill me in on *who* made the post about the "Authentic
whipping"...the one where a leather covering was used below the shirt, with the
use of blood bladders that would erupt when the "cat-o-nine tails" struck the
"victim"...and then I would like to know how this is considered better than
someone being "tickled" in the stocks? I know I must have missed some posts.
According to what I have received, "Kujman1" is being taken to task for
tickling (and a really bad attitude), while someone who has admitted to doing
something that I personally would not consider "family entertainment"
(realistically beating someone until they're bloody and screaming as if in
mortal pain) has been fairly much left alone. Now, I have *no* idea what Mr.
"Kujman1" is up to...I don't claim to have all the facts (or even all the
posts). I am only saying that, thus far, the feel of the posts I have received
is that he is being accused of tickling and videotaping...and of being a liar
(in my mind, the worse of these "crimes"), and someone who claims to depict a
brutal beating in a family atmosphere is accused of nothing...
So...what did I miss? I know you all to be highly intelligent people, and
people of high standards. I know I have missed something here. Someone please
fill me in.
rhia_fi...@hotmail.com
> BUSTED!! Put that tail back between your legs and scurry away now..."
>
> and I think that says it all ... .
>
> Shadow-
...and the crowd goes wild!!! Thank you, I've been watching this particular
thread for a while with great amusement. This was the crowning glory to the
entire event. Thank you again.
XXX OOO
Rhia Firewalker
Wench #328, Hussy
Greatly Amused at the Stupidity of Others
rhia_fi...@hotmail.com
> I am genuinely sorry to continue this thread, but as I said the other day, I
> have less and less sympathy for this man with each lie he tells.
Oh please don't be sorry! I have enjoyed this entire thing up until this point
so very much! I've never enjoyed Soap Operas until now...I wait every day to
see what's going to come up next! It's not as if any of this were really in
question, I just love watching the "gentleman" in question attempt to worm out
of this situation with everyone here insisting he own up to the facts.
Thanks!
Rhia Firewalker
Wench #328, Hussy
She of the Highly Amused
rhia_fi...@hotmail.com
As amusing as all of this has been, it does give me pause to think. The most
recent post from the "gentleman" in question happened to appear just above a
post entitled "Lost Child"...and only last weekend after the close of
Scarborough I was sitting in one of the booths watching half a dozen rennie
urchins (all under the age of 5) play virtually unsupervised. Myself and the
booth manager had a long conversation about how faire was one of the safest
environments I had ever experienced and that such a sight didn't bother me as
much as similar scenes found in shopping malls. I have never had any doubt
that if I were in any kind of trouble, a scream would immediately bring
numerous well-armed gentlemen who would certainly be more than willing to
assist. I had always felt that the persons who participate in faire were of a
community; unfortunately now I have been given SERIOUS reason to doubt.
Thank you, KUJMAN1, for shattering my illusion
Rhia Firewalker
Wench #328, Hussy
Disheartened by the imposition of reality on faire.
Alex Mars
I received an email from Kumanj1 today that states his defense. Apparently, he
claims, someone is using his AOL screen name. For the sake of fairness, this
does happen (I've seen it happen to a friend of mine).
Rather than castigating those who have looked into this and found his screen
name attached to the questionable posts, I'd suggest he look into whoever is
mis-using his name.
Additionally, he maintains the claim that the original posts on this subject
comes from a disgruntled applicnat to his show.
I have no way to judge these claims. It still seem, however, that he
over-reacted to what seemed to me were calm and sober questions into the
situation. Had he reacted in a more controlled manner rather than using
bombastic tactics and threats, I believe this isue would not have taken on the
life it has.
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
Locklyn
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a requirement for "libel" to be
false? Now, I'm not claiming to know exactly what is true and what is false
in this thread, but... well... I second the opinion that you should change your
password really quick if that's not you, Kujman1, cause you're lookin' like an
awful big liar. And last I knew, threatening remarks can be quite illegal.
Just a suggestion.
Locklyn
Locklyn
>only last weekend after the close of
>Scarborough I was sitting in one of the booths watching half a dozen rennie
>urchins (all under the age of 5) play virtually unsupervised. Myself and the
>booth manager had a long conversation about how faire was one of the safest
>environments I had ever experienced and that such a sight didn't bother me as
>much as similar scenes found in shopping malls. I have never had any doubt
>that if I were in any kind of trouble, a scream would immediately bring
>numerous well-armed gentlemen who would certainly be more than willing to
>assist. I had always felt that the persons who participate in faire were of a
>community; unfortunately now I have been given SERIOUS reason to doubt.
I think this does go to explain why people are so up in arms about this
situation (wherever it may stand now.) For a lot of us, faire is not only a
pastime or even a job, but *home*. If someone cannot understand the emotions
and common sensibilities in this thread and the one about thievery, and a lot
of others I've recently seen, I would suggest they realize that yes, we do
check up on posts and people that seem a little awry. And of course we warn
our friends, co-workers and those we live around if we feel this is necessary.
Better safe than sorry- it is home after all.
(Just for the record, no, I'm not currently on the circuit. But I know what
it's like from past experience to leave all of my important and dear belongings
in an unlocked tent in the hopes of trusting everyone that happens to have a
pass, whether I know them or not. Scary, isn't it? And I don't even have
kids... )
Locklyn
LCLacemker
In article <199805141344...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
lyfeo...@aol.com wrote:
>Can anyone please fill me in on *who* made the post about the "Authentic
>whipping"...the one where a leather covering was used below the shirt, with
the
>use of blood bladders that would erupt when the "cat-o-nine tails" struck the
>"victim"
Hi, Peg!,
While I can't recall the poster, I do recall that the blood bladder idea was
only suggested by someone else's reply, not actually used at faire. Hope this
helps clear some of the confusion.
Lara the Lacemaker
AFR Demi-Goddess of Lace
High Priestess to the God of Cynical Intellect
Holder of the Gold Star of Puns
Wench #314, Madame Cum Laude
Summa Cum Humor, Bishop of the Temple of the Smart Ass Remark
Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check?
ImWench157
>From: kuj...@aol.com (KUJMAN1)
>Ah, as for running scared? then...ah...why am I STILL here? <<quivering as he
>types>>
That's a good question.
>My email to you was to the point, unlike what you have posted here and you
>still seek attention, and asked the very simple questions to every one of
>you
>( if you aren't all the same person):
Excuse me, but I'm "me" and no one else....answer THIS simple question:
Does the the website with YOUR email addy on the mailbox have a site navigator
function with the link to page entitled "Main Images Page" on it?
When this was selected, a page featuring Fantasy Pleasures The Ultimate Zone
was loaded. An adult site.
SaraSmiley
In regards to Peg!'s question about bloody whippings (ugh!!!!!), I am sorry to
say I do not know. I did not pick up on that post, as I surely would have
commented if I had.
As for the Kujman1 thread, well I made a post cautioning people here that he
claimed to sell videos of his act through sex fetish newsgroups. My original
search was done in anticipation of finding a new act to enjoy. No one is
sorrier than I am with what I subsequently discovered.
As I have said here, everyone is free to do their own thing, but when that
"thing" is taped at Faires (especially ones I attend with my daughters) and
then sold to fetishists? Well, I thought it worth mentioning to people here.
I hope this clears things up for you, and hasn't muddied the waters further. :
- )
Sara
: - )
FiendSage
>I received an email from Kumanj1 today that states his defense. Apparently,
>he
>claims, someone is using his AOL screen name. For the sake of fairness, this
>does happen (I've seen it happen to a friend of mine).
I find this highly dubious. If that's really the case, it's been going on for
the last six months (thank the gods for dejanews!), with this "imposter"
posting to alt.torture, alt.sadistic, and alt.multimedia.tk at all hours of the
day and night, almost 150 times. And if you read a few of those posts, the
style is exactly the same... ascerbic, threatening, bombastic, etc.
Having struggled through some of those posts, it seems that Kujman's name is
Kurt Jelinek, by the way; or maybe that's the name of the imposter!
http://x5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=326116755&CONTEXT=895175446.724566205&
hitnum=1
And just for laughs, try searching on kuj...@aol.com on dejanews. Now this may
legitimately be someone else, but if it is, it's someone who posts to the exact
same groups with the exact same style.
As ever, your humble servant,
The Fiend-Sage of Rel Astra
Alex Mars
An easy way to cut through the crap would be to determine the IP address of the
email address of kum...@aol.com and compare this to the alleged false posts.
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
cper...@nothinbut.net
In article <199805141344...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
lyfeo...@aol.com (LyfeORiley) wrote:
>
> Can anyone please fill me in on *who* made the post about the "Authentic
> whipping"...the one where a leather covering was used below the shirt, with
the
I believe you're talking about a post by pax...@aol.com - the subject
line was Re: Whipping post was re:Kelly Carlson And LHI. Check DejaNews
for more details.
> and then I would like to know how this is considered better than
> someone being "tickled" in the stocks? I know I must have missed some posts.
> According to what I have received, "Kujman1" is being taken to task for
> tickling (and a really bad attitude), while someone who has admitted to
> doing something that I personally would not consider "family entertainment"
Couple of points here which might explain things:
1) Kujman1/thawkins is being hammered not for tickling, but for lying,
threatening, and general bad behaviour.
2) Whipping, like it or not, was a part of history. torture by tickling
is a (somewhat unusual) sexual fantasy, not history.
3) This one is very important: your idea of family entertainment may not
be mine (or ours, whatever). Personally (as a father of four),
I'm not offended by either tickling or whipping. I'm offended
by lies and threats, and fantasy masquerading as history. YMMV.
Cornelius
Laura
cper...@nothinbut.net wrote:
>
> In article <199805141344...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> lyfeo...@aol.com (LyfeORiley) wrote:
>
"demos" at fair...
> 2) Whipping, like it or not, was a part of history. torture by tickling
> is a (somewhat unusual) sexual fantasy, not history.
It has nothing to do with whether or not one likes what is part of
history. Shouldn't it have at least a bit more to do with what is
entertainment and education versus what is being used for plain old
shock value? I am the last person you will catch trying to censor
something, but I wonder about the real reason behind doing an entire act
that centers around whipping a person with fake blood, etc. Is it truly
done PURELY to educate? Just wondering.
> 3) This one is very important: your idea of family entertainment may not
> be mine (or ours, whatever). Personally (as a father of four),
> I'm not offended by either tickling or whipping. I'm offended
> by lies and threats, and fantasy masquerading as history. YMMV.
Not offended by it? It's not a question of what offends you. I think it
should be a question, as I've said, of whether or not the purpose of a
whipping show or a tickling show is purely to educate about history, or
to sincerely entertain the masses. I doubt it. It seems more like what I
see more and more movies do - just going for whatever is going to sell
the tickets. The shock value. Oh well - supply and demand, I guess. ;-)
-Laura
LyfeORiley
>Couple of points here which might explain things:
>
>1) Kujman1/thawkins is being hammered not for tickling, but for lying,
> threatening, and general bad behaviour.
> is a (somewhat unusual) sexual fantasy, not history.
> be mine (or ours, whatever). Personally (as a father of four),
> I'm not offended by either tickling or whipping. I'm offended
> by lies and threats, and fantasy masquerading as history. YMMV.
>
Thank you for the information. As I said, I missed a good deal of the posts
that occured in the middle. In my own readings, we went from "how to create a
realistic whipping", to this whole to-do about Kujman1. And I agree that there
is some gray area for what differing people will consider "Family
Entertainment". But, I think there should be respect for all beliefs, and a
warning to the audience would not be too troublesome, and would be immenlsy
helpful for those that might not want their children to witness such a thing.
This was addressed in the beginning of this thread as well. There are some
shows at MD. that get a rating (PG 13). I am all for this. It doesn't keep
anyone out that would be fine with the venue, but it warns those that might be
offended, and who might be peeved they had not had any warning. Also, let me
say that, what faires condone is their business, and my comments were not
meant as a judgement on these Faires or the people working there. I was more
interested in finding out where realistic whippings were being performed, as I
would rather not be at risk of stumbling across such a thing...this is my own
personal ideology. It certainly is not my intent to thrust my own ethics onto
others...but I would like to keep to them for myself and my daughter, none the
less.
Lynn
LyfeORiley
Laura posted in reply to an earlier poster:
>It has nothing to do with whether or not one likes what is part of
>history. Shouldn't it have at least a bit more to do with what is
>entertainment and education versus what is being used for plain >old shock
value? I am the last person you will catch trying to >censor something, but I
wonder about the real reason behind >doing an entire act that centers around
whipping a person with >fake blood, etc. Is it truly done PURELY to educate?
Just >wondering.
My own considerations are that there are many things that would most definately
fit within the term "Historically accurate" that I myself would not want my
daughter witnessing...beheading and a plague cart were the 2 that I personally
mentioned earlier in this thread. The same way that I would not want her
witnessing certain things at the Holocaust Memorial (my child is only 6).
Thankfully, at the memorial, they put up tall walls around certain
displays...walls that I (at all of 4'10" tall) was only barely able to see
over. But I was glad that they had them up. It allowed for more people to come
in, and for parents to keep their children from seeing certain images that they
might deem too disturbing. It is up to me what my daughter views. I am the
arbiter for what is appropriate and what is not, and I am most grateful to
*anyone* for aiding me in maintaining my desires where my daughter is
concerned. I am not saying everyone needs believe as I do...rather, I only want
respect for my own standards. I want to know enough to be able to choose to
walk away from something that I think is inappropriate. I am with Laura
here...I am not for censorship, *except* as it applies to children. There is a
reason that Larry Flynt (of "Hustler" magazine fame) won his lawsuit to put out
his magazine...because freedom of speech cannot be reserved only for those
voices that some deem "appropriate". However, there is also a reason that his
Magazine is sold in a brown paper wrapper...and a reason it is not sold in
school stores. Because the 1st amendment does not insure ones freedom of speech
to say or do whatever one will when minors are present. We restrict what our
children view by legislation all the time, R ratings on movies...Age limits to
enter Strip bars...Age limits to go to war. Even still, the majority of the
decision for what is appropriate and what is not is up to the parents. And this
particular Mommy doesn't want her daughter seeing a whipping, even if it is a
re-enactment. There is too much violence on T.V., both "entertainment" and the
news, and even movies rated G sometimes can have questionable stuff. The
average child views more than 10,000 killings on T.V. by the time they reach
age of majority (and I believe the actual statistic to be much higher). I don't
wonder that we live in a violent society. I am just not willing to have my kid
be one of the ones that becomes desensitized to violence in the name of
"entertainment". I am more referring to what's on the tube than I am about the
subject of these re-enactments. But still, this would be another spoke on the
wheel for my own purposes. A less offensive one than happens on your average
Cop show, admittedly, but still one that I don't want my kid subjected to. All
I want is to be forwarned.
Lynn
Morghana
With all the claims and counter claims, I'd like to discuss a few things.
KUJMAN1 claims his AOL account has been used by someone other than himself.
Since many of you don't have access to AOL's content, you might not know about
AOL's Terms of Service, or TOS agreements. There are two main documents:
TERMS OF SERVICE and RULES OF THE ROAD. These are presented to EVERYONE who
signs onto the AOL service. I guarantee it. If you don't remember reading
'em, you're in good company, but they ARE presented at account creation....and
available to anyone who can access AOL. (Keyword: TOS).
I'm going to quote from TERMS OF SERVICE, Part I, section 2C. "C. You are
entirely liable for all activities conducted through your master account and
any sub-accounts. A Member may not permit another individual to use the
Members master account without direct supervision by the Member. A Member may
permit another individual, including a minor, to use the Members sub-accounts
subject to the following limitations: The Member must agree to (1) supervise
the other individuals use of the Members accounts, (2) assume any and all
resulting liabilities of such use, including responsibility for any and all
content accessed on AOL or the Internet, (3) hold AOL harmless for any such use
of AOL for a person other than the Member, and (4) acknowledge that the
decision to allow another individual to use the account is made by the Member
and not AOL, Inc. Because AOL, Inc. sends important notices about your
membership to the master account holder, you agree to check the master account
regularly and bear the risk of failing to do so."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please note #2 and #3. Doesn't matter who uses the account, the account holder
is liable. AOL assumes ZERO responsibility for protecting our passwords... we
have to do that. If your account gets hacked or your password is compromised,
you can still be held responsible for whatever the unsavory/illicit/ugly
activities that were done with your screenname. I can cite examples to prove
it from my tenure as a "Community Leader" on AOL... all four years of it.
Okay, now assuming (for the sake of this discussion) that Kujman1's account
*has* been compromised, and he was innocent as he has claimed, then this next
request should be a very simple one to fulfil.
Taking Shadow's published list (and I'm using that one since it was posted and
the majority of AFR folk have seen it)... I'd like Mr Kujman1 to go through
that list and tell us which posts were made by the imposter or person who
gained illegal access to his account. Which of those posts are *really* made
by the man/person who owns the Kujman1 screenname, and which does that person
disavow? That should allow Mr Kujman1 the opportunity to clarify his
statements here, and to then remove the posts which he has NOT authored from
any questioning by concerned folk on AFR.
Since I personally don't believe it would be *fair* to hold Kujman1 responsible
for posts that he didn't make, I now invite him to let me and the rest of AFR
know which posts are his, and which posts aren't. If this matter is as he
states, that alone should clear a great deal of the air. Oh, and don't bother
with emailing me, Kujman1... I've blocked you. Reply on the list.... your
accusations of bias, libel and legal actions were made here, your defenses of
the public record should be also.
Ball's in your court, Kujman1. Which posts on that long list are yours?
~Morghana
cper...@nothinbut.net
In article <355BB7FF...@home.com>,
Laura <lau...@home.com> wrote:
> regarding explaining to Peg the difference between tickling and whipping
> "demos" at fair...
Remember that the context was Peg's question/comment about the great
outcry against kujman's lies and threats, and none about the whipping.
> It has nothing to do with whether or not one likes what is part of
> history.
Will you permit me to have a different opinion on this topic? And
it's not about what one likes at all. I just said here that it's not
historic.
> Shouldn't it have at least a bit more to do with what is
> entertainment and education versus what is being used for plain old
> shock value?
Not in my opinion. I can't judge motives. I can't even see them. I
can only see actions.
> I am the last person you will catch trying to censor
> something, but I wonder about the real reason behind doing an entire act
> that centers around whipping a person with fake blood, etc.
As another poster (sorry, I'm in dejanews at the moment and can't
recall who) pointed out, the fake blood wasn't the original person's
description, but an idea from a second afr person.
> Not offended by it? It's not a question of what offends you.
Once again, please remember that the context of my remarks - what
they were intended to explain - was the lack of outcry against
the simulated whippings, given that we were heartily bashing away
at the lies and threats of kuj...@aol.com. I can only speak
for myself, hence my "I" statements.
Since by now I'm sure things have gotten confused in several
people's minds, I'd like to point out that I'm neither the
person who posed the original question about whipping, the
person who posted the original description, nor the person
who suggested the stage blood. I'm just somebody who thinks
that a whipping is no worse than stage combat (and whose son
does FX makeup), but who hates lies and threats.
cper...@nothinbut.net
> regarding explaining to Peg the difference between tickling and whipping
> "demos" at fair...
Remember that the context was Peg's question/comment about the great
outcry against kujman's lies and threats, and none about the whipping.
> It has nothing to do with whether or not one likes what is part of
> history.
Will you permit me to have a different opinion on this topic? I
believe that what is or is not part of history is of enormous
importance. Also, this discussion isn't at all about what anybody
likes, imo. I just said here that it's not historic.
ImWench157
>From: saras...@aol.com (SaraSmiley)
>As for the Kujman1 thread, well I made a post cautioning people here that he
>claimed to sell videos of his act through sex fetish newsgroups. My original
>search was done in anticipation of finding a new act to enjoy. No one is
>sorrier than I am with what I subsequently discovered.
>
>As I have said here, everyone is free to do their own thing, but when that
>"thing" is taped at Faires (especially ones I attend with my daughters) and
>then sold to fetishists? Well, I thought it worth mentioning to people here.
>
>I hope this clears things up for you, and hasn't muddied the waters further.
As I said, this is my concern as well. I don't particularly care what someone
does for their own personal "amusement", as long as it's not directed at me or
mine. I doubt I'd ever have anything to do with a "tickling booth" at a faire,
but let's say I did try it for fun, or my daughter wanted to try it. It's a
long stretch to go from "family fun" to "sexual pleasure" in my book, and I
would hate to find out that that's what had happened.