OT?: Barnes & Noble protest

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James Sweetland

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Nov 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/18/98
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We have had previous discussions about re-sellers vs. individual
craft people, and about independent bookstores vs the chains,
so this isn't wholly offtopic. Anyhow, the point is to protest
the current move of the largeest bookstore chain to buy one
of the largest wholesalers in the world--and Ingram is
the wholesaler who supplies much of the printed material to
most independents (as well as to many of the other big chains, too)
There is an similar take on this in the current _Newsweek_ as
well, if you want a more "mainstream" approach.

===forwarded message follows=====
[edited by JHS for space]

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:58:57 -0800
From: Chuck0 <ch...@tao.ca>
To: ALA Office for Intellectual Freedom List <ala...@ala1.ala.org>

"BAG DAY" WILL PROTEST BARNES & NOBLE ON NOVEMBER 23

AUSTIN, TX - A nationwide coalition that includes recording
artists Negativland, the estate of Terry Southern, Alt-X/Black
Ice, the AK Press, the Church of the SubGenius, and others is
declaring November 23 to be "Bag Day," and asking that at noon on
that day, people all over the U.S. protest the homogenizing and
destructive effects of corporate chains, by browsing in Barnes &
Noble bookstores with paper bags on their heads, according to an
email communication from RTMARK.

Last week independent booksellers reacted with dismay when Barnes
& Noble Inc., the nation's largest bookseller, announced that it
will acquire Ingram Book Group . Ingram Book Group supplies the
bulk of books to thousands of small booksellers. And a lawsuit,
filed in March by the American Booksellers Association along with
two dozen independently-owned bookstores, contends that Barnes &
Noble has "engaged in a pattern and practice of soliciting,
inducing, and receiving secret, discriminatory, and illegal terms
from publishers and distributors."

The idea for this national protest was conceived and launched by
the Austin-based activist group Friends United in Creative
Knowledge of the Faceless Attitudes of Corporate Entities.
[background edited by JHS]

Sources/resources:

FRIENDS UNITED IN CREATIVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACELESS ATTITUDES OF
CORPORATE ENTITIES --
http://www.fringeware.com/friends/

RTMARK press page -- http://rtmark.com/faq.html

American Booksellers Association BOOKWEB -- http://www.ambook.org/

"Barnes & Noble to buy Nation's Largest Book Wholesaler"
http://www.artswire.org/current/1998/cur111098.html

"ABA, Independent Booksellers Sue Barnes & Noble, Borders"
http://www.artswire.org/current/1998/cur032498.html

===end forwarded message=======
James Sweetland, Bristol gamer, afrgok and high priest of pushmonkeys
(and librarian, patron of independent bookstores, author, and possibly
some day a bookseller, too).


banana

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Nov 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/18/98
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James Sweetland wrote:
> We have had previous discussions about re-sellers vs. individual
> craft people, and about independent bookstores vs the chains,

<sa-nnnnip>

>FRIENDS UNITED IN CREATIVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACELESS ATTITUDES OF
>CORPORATE ENTITIES --
>http://www.fringeware.com/friends/

I'm just happy they don't go by their acronym...(ya know, cos someone's kids
might be reading this or something...)


Sorry; I ain't runnin round in some dusty old paper bag. I refuse to be-
the unknown Banana
(you guys would just Gong me anyway...)

--

jahnaBanana
Self-Appointed High Priestess of All Fruits Yellow (and Orange, Honey)
a.f.r. demi-goddess of SOMETHING surly and smarmy
The Sun is in Scorpio girls and boys, and so am I (x2). Better duck...
(next week I'll be better groupies, I really will.)
And I made up ALL my titles, so there.

Ann

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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That is frightening. Too many of the sources of information are controlled by a
few corporations. The dedication to the bottom line as the standard by which
all must and should be judged is soulless and mindless. More dangerous than
a nefarious plot would be,because you can't get a grip on it -- it sounds
reasonable.

I'll go see the other sites, and look for that Newsweek .


Ann
Wench #349
Dedicated Mugwump

an...@mindspring.comNOSPAM


James Sweetland <swee...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:

>We have had previous discussions about re-sellers vs. individual
>craft people, and about independent bookstores vs the chains,

>FRIENDS UNITED IN CREATIVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACELESS ATTITUDES OF
>CORPORATE ENTITIES --
>http://www.fringeware.com/friends/
>

CindiLaine

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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I worked for Barnes & Noble for 3 years and let me tell you I could give you a
list a page long as to why you should protest Barnes & Noble. B&N has been
systematically buying smaller bookstores and closing them down. They own
Bookstop, Bookstar, Scribners, and B. Dalton. They have been one by one
closing out mall stores and discount stores like Bookstop and opening Barnes
and Nobles so they dont have to give the discounts they give at the smaller
stores. They are a total bunch of fascist and dont get me started on this
subject. Support your independent bookstore owner!!!


Lorelei Macdobhran
Wench # 488
Lifeguard of the Gene pool
Bearer of the Stupid Stick

"If they give you lined paper, write the other way."

DrgnflyDsn

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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snip

<<They have been one by one
closing out mall stores and discount stores like Bookstop and opening Barnes
and Nobles so they dont have to give the discounts they give at the smaller
stores. They are a total bunch of fascist and dont get me started on this
subject. Support your independent bookstore owner!!!

Lorelei Macdobhran>>

How interesting. At the same time our B.Daltons closed Barnes and Noble opened
across the street. I had no idea the two events were related. How sad.
I always support the independent mom and pop book stores. I waited to purchase
books this past weekend at a convention from a husband and wife team. I always
support fellow merchants!
I appreciate the enlightening information from James and Lorelei.


Ronda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dragonfly Design
http://members.aol.com/DrgnflyDsn
Masks, Historical Clothing Patterns, Garb
Remove "98" at end of e mail address to respond


Dra...@rocketmail.com

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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In article <19981118232431...@ng94.aol.com>,

drgnf...@aol.com98 (DrgnflyDsn) wrote:
> snip
> <<They have been one by one
> closing out mall stores and discount stores like Bookstop and opening Barnes
> and Nobles so they dont have to give the discounts they give at the smaller
> stores. They are a total bunch of fascist and dont get me started on this
> subject. Support your independent bookstore owner!!!
>
> Lorelei Macdobhran>>
>
> How interesting. At the same time our B.Daltons closed Barnes and Noble
opened
> across the street. I had no idea the two events were related. How sad.
> I always support the independent mom and pop book stores. I waited to
purchase
> books this past weekend at a convention from a husband and wife team. I
always
> support fellow merchants!
> I appreciate the enlightening information from James and Lorelei.

So whatchains are ok? Borders/Waldenbooks? I don't really have an
independant near me and, quite frankly, sometimes B&N is my ONLY source for
harder to find/get books. I agree that what they are doing is wrong, but
whatdo youdo if B&N is your ONLY option? ANd don't suggest buying online.
When youare a student, sometimes you need a book RIGHT NOW.

Dranaan
WEnch #94

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

CindiLaine

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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Buy there if you need something Dranaan. B&N is progressive in some areas but
it's their management that are such a bunch of fascists. I still buy there at
times and justify it cuz it pays the salary of my friends who still work there
and hate it.

Xandriel

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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My favourite bookstore in the world is privately owned ... The Tattered Cover
in Denver!

Xandriel ---<---<---{@
The Lady of the Rose
Wench # 318, Member of Guilde of St. Wilde
HotmamaJama of Sarcastica, If she Don't have it, you Don't need it.

Kevin Fenzi

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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>>>>> "Xandriel" == Xandriel <xand...@aol.comROSES> writes:

Xandriel> My favourite bookstore in the world is privately owned
Xandriel> ... The Tattered Cover in Denver!

Amen! The tattered cover is great!
They have most anything you could want...

(reminds me that I should go for a visit when I finish the 7 books
left in my to be read queue. ;)

kevin
--
Kevin Fenzi
ke...@scrye.com
http://scrye.com/~kevin/

mistress...@my-dejanews.com

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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Dranaan grumped:

>
> So whatchains are ok? Borders/Waldenbooks? I don't really have an
> independant near me and, quite frankly, sometimes B&N is my ONLY source for
> harder to find/get books. I agree that what they are doing is wrong, but
> whatdo youdo if B&N is your ONLY option? ANd don't suggest buying online.
> When youare a student, sometimes you need a book RIGHT NOW.

Personally, I'll shop and B&N if I absolutely *have* to, but if I have a
Borders nearby, I'd rather go there. Besides, I don't know about their
corporate policy, but the friends that I have that work there *love* it, and
they serve better coffee beverages. None o' this Fivebucks crap like at B&N.

reading The Exorcist AGAIN,
Crickett
--
AFR Goddess of Travel and Road Rennies
Raquelle Hara of Sarcastica, demigoddess of the liquid food court
Fellow Bibliophile
Would Read In The Shower If I Could
Having a Mad Craving For Nutella, All Of A Sudden

mis...@my-dejanews.com

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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I have to say that I have been shopping at the Barnes and Nobles in Boston for
almost 15 years. That was when it was one store. Why do we hate it when a good
thing grows?

Misypu misstress of mischief

In article <m2emqze...@jelerak.scrye.com>,

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

Dra...@rocketmail.com

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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In article <731sv3$thd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

mistress...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Dranaan grumped:
> >
> > So whatchains are ok? Borders/Waldenbooks? I don't really have an
> > independant near me and, quite frankly, sometimes B&N is my ONLY source for
> > harder to find/get books. I agree that what they are doing is wrong, but
> > whatdo youdo if B&N is your ONLY option? ANd don't suggest buying online.
> > When youare a student, sometimes you need a book RIGHT NOW.
>
> Personally, I'll shop and B&N if I absolutely *have* to, but if I have a
> Borders nearby, I'd rather go there. Besides, I don't know about their
> corporate policy, but the friends that I have that work there *love* it, and
> they serve better coffee beverages. None o' this Fivebucks crap like at B&N.

The only thing the B&N cafe has that TRULY rocks is chocolate filled wafer
cookies, 5 for a $1. They are the best, Irish creme, dark choc raspberry,
choc eclair, lovely things

Dranaan
WEnch #94
Who cannot have any sugar this week, WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

MacLaren33

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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>My favourite bookstore in the world is privately owned ... The Tattered Cover
>in Denver!

The Tattered Cover *is* awesome. I got to meet Connie Willis there!


Elisabeth MacLaren
Goddess of Innocence
Lady Gizmonica of Sarcastica, keeper of Coeur du Joel
http://members.aol.com/MacLaren33/mycastle.html
Remove NOSPAM to e-mail

"I wish the real world, would just stop hasseling me."--Matchbox 20


Xandriel

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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Kevin wrote:
>Amen! The tattered cover is great! They have most anything you could
>want... (reminds me that I should go for a visit when I finish the 7 books
>left in my to be read queue. ;)

Take me with you!!!

Kevin Fenzi

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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>>>>> "MacLaren33" == MacLaren33 <macla...@aol.comNOSPAM> writes:

>> My favourite bookstore in the world is privately owned ... The
>> Tattered Cover in Denver!

MacLaren33> The Tattered Cover *is* awesome. I got to meet Connie
MacLaren33> Willis there!

cool!

I should pay more attention to their speakers. I usually notice a good
one the day after. ;(

Kevin Fenzi

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
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>>>>> "Xandriel" == Xandriel <xand...@aol.comROSES> writes:

Xandriel> Kevin wrote:
>> Amen! The tattered cover is great! They have most anything you
>> could want... (reminds me that I should go for a visit when I
>> finish the 7 books left in my to be read queue. ;)

Xandriel> Take me with you!!!

Would be my pleasure m'lady...

If you can manage the east coast -> denver part... ;)

mistress...@my-dejanews.com

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
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Dranaan spake thusly:

> The only thing the B&N cafe has that TRULY rocks is chocolate filled wafer
> cookies, 5 for a $1. They are the best, Irish creme, dark choc raspberry,
> choc eclair, lovely things

YOHO! They're made by the Yoho factory! Delishy things, them. Like the
Pirouline you find in the Gourmet Cookie Section of the Grocery Store (just
please, don't take Dranaan and I into a grocery store together. Bad things
happen.). Those *are* pretty yummy. But Borders tends to have some pretty
awesome stuff in their E-Bar too.

> Who cannot have any sugar this week, WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

What's up with THAT?????? Must be medical stuff, huh? No sugar. Little to
no caffeine. Girl, when it comes down to it that you can't eat tomatoes, the
world will be in big trouble.

waiting anxiously for Thanksgiving,


Crickett
--
AFR Goddess of Travel and Road Rennies
Raquelle Hara of Sarcastica, demigoddess of the liquid food court

Empress Supreme, New Church of Crickettarianism
Braving The Zippyclan A Week From Today

MAILLEMAN

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
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>The only thing the B&N cafe has that TRULY rocks is chocolate filled wafer
>cookies, 5 for a $1. They are the best, Irish creme, dark choc raspberry,
>choc eclair, lovely things


Maybe its just me, but I shop at B & N for books, not coffe and cookies... And
so far they have the best Sci Fi and Fantasy selection Ive been able to find.
Waldenbooks and Super Crown just plain sucks unless you want Star
Wars/Trek/Lance/Loft/Lackey....


Fubar Of The Hill People
(Fubar tested, Hill People approved)
*hic*
Waddya mean Im too loud??

WENCH18

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
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>
>
>>>>>> "MacLaren33" == MacLaren33 <macla...@aol.comNOSPAM> writes:
>
>>> My favourite bookstore in the world is privately owned ... The
>>> Tattered Cover in Denver!
>
>MacLaren33> The Tattered Cover *is* awesome. I got to meet Connie
>MacLaren33> Willis there!
>

I LOVE THAT PLACE!!!!

When driving cross country during my road rennie years...we always had to stop
there. It got to the point where during packing the truck...we all knew which
corner to leave free for the Book Run.


Mistress Bethany
Wench, Mommy, Goddess

"I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve.
I have a history of taking off my shirt"

MacLaren33

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
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>Maybe its just me, but I shop at B & N for books, not coffe and cookies...
>And
>so far they have the best Sci Fi and Fantasy selection Ive been able to find.

I buy my CD's there cause they're the only ones in town that will take returns.
Or at least my store will, others won't or so I've heard.

MacLaren33

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
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>cool!
>
>I should pay more attention to their speakers. I usually notice a good
>one the day after. ;(
>

Hehehe, me too. Connie Willis was a fluke. It was so cool, she talked to us for
like fifteen minutes (we took along a photo of our bulldog and she *loves*
bulldogs) and everyone else in the line got homicidal....

Brett Ryan

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
to
It has been my observation that it is the management at each
individual book store that makes the diffrence. I shop regularly
at about four of theses "superstores." The Barnes & Nobel at Westimer and
highway 6 has a great magazine section and a good computer section but
its history section SUCKS. The Barnes & Nobel on FM 1960 has a fair
computer and magazine section but the history section is great for a
B&N. A the Stafford Boarder's books however I have had the best luck
in finding good titles.

Regards,
Brett

In message <731sv3$thd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> -


mistress...@my-dejanews.comThu, 19 Nov 1998 19:53:17 GMT writes:
>
>Dranaan grumped:
>>
>> So whatchains are ok? Borders/Waldenbooks? I don't really have an
>> independant near me and, quite frankly, sometimes B&N is my ONLY source for
>> harder to find/get books. I agree that what they are doing is wrong, but
>> whatdo youdo if B&N is your ONLY option? ANd don't suggest buying online.
>> When youare a student, sometimes you need a book RIGHT NOW.
>
>Personally, I'll shop and B&N if I absolutely *have* to, but if I have a
>Borders nearby, I'd rather go there. Besides, I don't know about their
>corporate policy, but the friends that I have that work there *love* it, and
>they serve better coffee beverages. None o' this Fivebucks crap like at B&N.
>

>reading The Exorcist AGAIN,
>Crickett
>

>----------- Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ----------


>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

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CindiLaine

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
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>It has been my observation that it is the management at each
>individual book store that makes the diffrence.


Brett the real difference is not the management but the section leaders who
are in charge of a certain section and therefore order the cool stuff for their
section. I used to do the history section and the New Age section at our store
and because I happen to love both of those subjects our store had a better
selection then our other store in town cuz someone who CARED ordered and
organized the section.

CindiLaine

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
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>That was when it was one store. Why do we hate it when a good
>thing grows?

Because when a company grows it usually loses site of the important things like
THE PEOPLE who made it grow and profit. The big corporate machine rolls over
the "little people" in its blind rush to make the high holy dollar.

Shadow

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Nov 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/20/98
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On 19 Nov 1998 20:54:57 GMT, macla...@aol.comNOSPAM (MacLaren33)
wrote:

>>My favourite bookstore in the world is privately owned ... The Tattered Cover
>>in Denver!
>

>The Tattered Cover *is* awesome. I got to meet Connie Willis there!


>
>
>Elisabeth MacLaren
>Goddess of Innocence
>Lady Gizmonica of Sarcastica, keeper of Coeur du Joel
>http://members.aol.com/MacLaren33/mycastle.html
>Remove NOSPAM to e-mail
>
>"I wish the real world, would just stop hasseling me."--Matchbox 20
>
>

*deep sighs* ..

Three new Barnes and Nobles opened around here in the last 6 months.
Closed a lot of smaller stores.

Moi ? I still try to shop at 1/2 price books .. Its's about all I can
afford honestly .. or Borders .. But I figure they are about as bad as
B and Nobles ..


Shadow-

Rogue #150
Proud Member of the Renaissance Mercenary Guild
Captain, Team Road Rennie-
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mis...@my-dejanews.com

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Nov 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/21/98
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> >That was when it was one store. Why do we hate it when a good
> >thing grows?
>
> Because when a company grows it usually loses site of the important things
like
> THE PEOPLE who made it grow and profit. The big corporate machine rolls over
> the "little people" in its blind rush to make the high holy dollar.
>

That I do understand. But I have to say that B&N is one of the best chains
out there. If given a chance I will shop at an independent for everything.
But have a 15 year loyalty to B&N. That is unheard of in this day and age.
It has the widest selection and the best sci fi section bare none, this I
have seen consistently across the country. It is unfortunate that your
society pushes everything to be bigger and larger and have a higher profit
margin. With this said compared to a lot of other chains I have seen grow and
expand I think that B&N did it with a lot more dignity and grace than most.

Misypu the Mistress of Mischief

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

KelevEcco

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Nov 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/21/98
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>From: misypu

>It is unfortunate that your
>society

Your society?? Am I missing something here?

Lady Alyssa (aka kel)
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The next renaissance faire isn't until WHEN?
My life revolves around pilgrimages to KRF, Sterling, Tux, VARF & Hammond
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Brett Ryan

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Nov 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/21/98
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Lorelei,
Thanks! I never knew how these superstores were managed.
I've noticed a BIG difference in each of the individual stores and
how these things were managed. At the moment the Boarder's books
in Stafford/Sugar Land is my favorite for grabbing new titles on
European history.

Thank You,
Brett

In message <19981120150941...@ng132.aol.com> - cindi...@aol.com


(CindiLaine)20 Nov 1998 20:09:41 GMT writes:
>
>>It has been my observation that it is the management at each
>>individual book store that makes the diffrence.
>
>
>Brett the real difference is not the management but the section leaders who
>are in charge of a certain section and therefore order the cool stuff for their
>section. I used to do the history section and the New Age section at our store
>and because I happen to love both of those subjects our store had a better
>selection then our other store in town cuz someone who CARED ordered and
>organized the section.
>
>
>

>Lorelei Macdobhran
>Wench # 488
>Lifeguard of the Gene pool
>Bearer of the Stupid Stick
>
>"If they give you lined paper, write the other way."
>
>

*--------------------------<>-------------------------------*

willo...@my-dejanews.com

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Nov 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/21/98
to
I agree -- Barnes and Noble is becoming *way* to powerful. I dont know if
this is still correct, but at one point they had an agreement with the New
York Times that the Times would put links to barnesandnoble.com on the webbed
version of the top-ten bestsellers list. Lots of independents stopped
reporting their sales in protest -- the top ten became the top ten
bestsellers at Barnes and Noble. I really hope the Times has stopped doing
it -- have they? I couldn't find the web page for the top ten bestsellers.
I mainly from independents, and amazon.com. When I really need an out-of-
print book, I go to bibliofind.com -- they nearly always have what I need.
(It's a database of the inventories of 3,000 used and rare books dealers,
linked and searchable. I love it!)

Willowwisp

bmarshall

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Nov 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/21/98
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I love the Border's in Bowie, I can go in and ask for a subject an they will show me
where it is and even pull the newest titles, ie recenctly I wanted some Chieftans
albums and asked where the celtic/Irish/scottish section was and got into an indepth
descusion about the period, the Faire and even recruited a new member into AFR, even
told him where to find some stuff on the web which he jotted down and placed in his
wallet, for us guys the wallet is the filing cabinet of important things, my point
is, for a huge store that it is the employees treat you real good and would probly
take a bullet, well maybe not a bullet but most likly a nasty papercut


Jeff Shultz

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Nov 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/21/98
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On 22 Nov 1998 02:41:58 GMT, BRITATHRT wrote:

:>>>I love the Border's in Bowie, >>
:>
:>Bowie as in MD..WHERE!!!!!!!!!?????? I live in Laurel..and am tired of the mall
:>store

Just off of 175.. Um, let's see...moved away six months ago, it's one
of the parkways - Okay, taking 175 from Jessup/I-95, head towards
Columbia. The first light is something like Snowden River Parkway -
hang a left there and go up a couple blocks. It's part of a
stripmall, I think that there is a Best Buy and a PetSmart in the
mall as well. Hmmm - Tower Federal Credit Union has a branch in the
parking lot, next to a Men's Wearhouse. I want to say that there is
a Dead Lobster in the parking lot, but I'm not sure. Apple Ford is
across the street.

Hopefully that's good enough - since leaving Ft. Meade in April, I
don't remember any more points of reference.

Jeff Shultz
http://www.netcom.com/~jbshultz


BRITATHRT

unread,
Nov 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/22/98
to
>>I love the Border's in Bowie, >>

Bowie as in MD..WHERE!!!!!!!!!?????? I live in Laurel..and am tired of the mall
store

Marissa MacDóbhran of Laridale
High Priestess of the A.F.R.Goddess of Love
A.F.R.Demi-Goddess of the Hearth
Keeper of the Holy Pail
Initiate of St. Wilde, the Guild of Poofs(and the People Who Love Them)
Lover of all things Scottish(except Haggis)

Ken & Patricia

unread,
Nov 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/22/98
to
Hey Jeff,
Haven't heard from you in a coon's age. Adjusting to the civilian way
of life? Where did you move to Wa or Or? I'm sure I remember it was
back to the west coast. Did you make any of the fairs out there? Let
us in on what's happened since you moved.

Oh and what's that over there ---------->

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{P O U N C E}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Welcome Back to the virtual faire
Patricia

bmarshall

unread,
Nov 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/22/98
to

Ok I was going to figure this out but the perevious directions are way out of the way
from luarel, it in Columbia that one and the service craps.

OK
from rte 1 take 198 towards FT Meade
the first light after that bridge is th 197 intersection, take a right
follow that allthe way till it deadends at 3/301
That's right, take 197 past 295 and 50
when you get to 3/301 take a left(north) than another left at the light thathas a
Exon and a McDonaldson you leftside, follow th little road up to the stores, there is
a Pier 1 then Borders then a staples then a sports authority then a petstore then
ahome store then target, you want Borders, the one after the pier one,
Enjoy
--
Xavior Wolffe, of the family Mercheal and the Clan MacDóbhran
Second NutMan, High Priest of the Holly Order of Bob
(the planter's nut guy)
Perveyor of fine sweet and salty nut toa pop in ye mouth
CCC #8, BB? supporter #5, future rouge
http://www.angelfire.com/md/xavwolf/index.html

Jeff Shultz

unread,
Nov 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/22/98
to
I'm adjusting... already lost one job! I'm in college now, going for
a Batchelors in Comp Science. I did make it back to Oregon, but
totally missed Shrewsbury - other things came up that weekend.

On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:20:16 -0500, Ken & Patricia wrote:

:>Hey Jeff,

Jeff Shultz
http://www.netcom.com/~jbshultz


HawkwoodGM

unread,
Nov 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/24/98
to

I won't shop at most big chains if I can help it. Barne & Noble is definitely
on the list, as well as Blockbuster videos, anything Disney, and Borders. Do
vote with your dollars.

Sincerely,
James Echols
General Manager (Vice-President of Operations)
Hawkwood Medieval Fantasy Faire
http://members.aol.com/hawkwoodgg/hawkwood.htm
Keeper of the Day of Off

NORMTUBA

unread,
Nov 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/29/98
to
>BRITATHRT wrote:
>
>:>>>I love the Border's in Bowie, >>

>:>
>:>Bowie as in MD..WHERE!!!!!!!!!?????? I live in Laurel..and am tired of the
>mall
>:>store
>
There is one out on the far edge of Bowie. Take 197 east, as far as it will go
(or take the 197 exit off of Route 50). Go almost to Route 301. . At the
big shopping Center right across from RIPS (a restaurant), where there is a
Lowes Hardware, there is a Borders book store which usually has a pretty good
history section.

NORMTUBA

unread,
Nov 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/29/98
to
If I may make a comment here:

As an avid reader of history, I have to say that the big chain bookstores have
been a godsend to me. Most of them have a very good selection of various
historical titles, something you don't normally find at the smaller chains or
most small bookstores. I like to browse, to see what is there and what I want
to read--not order off of some list without looking first. I read a lot,
and I read VERY quickly--always have. Need lots of books to feed the
addiction--and not just any books, but books for my own peculiar tastes. I
realize everyone has their own slant on this--but, from my point of view, the
big book chains have been a good thing.

James Sweetland

unread,
Nov 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/30/98
to
NORMTUBA wrote: [and JHS edited]

> As an avid reader of history, I have to say that the big chain bookstores have

> been a godsend to me ... from my point of view, the


> big book chains have been a good thing.

I too shop now and then at the big chains. My overall point is
that bigness is not, by itself, bad, but that B & N appears to be
trying to use its bigness to eliminate the little guys and some of
the bigger guys as well.

And, the real problem, which each person has to deal with in general
is that the big guys (clothing stores, hardware stores, bookstores,
etc.) tend to make their profits by (1) eliminating service, especially
technical advice for free; (2) "cream skimming" where they use their
clout to give big discounts on the more popular items and not carry
the less profitable items.
Thus, people then tend to go to the big guys for (2), and
only go to the little guys for (1), or for the less popular items.
Since it costs money to have trained (let alone expert) staff, and
since the less popular items often cost more, either the little
guy has to raise prices, or live with a lower profit.

Several people have noted that, in their locale, B & N or another
chain are providing the service, and the lesser-profit items.
And, of course, much of the world lacks any local bookstore, anyway.

Of course, I was corrupted many many years ago by, Galsworthy's
"Quality" (a short story in a junior high school reader, which was
not officially assigned to the class, btw).
--
James Sweetland, Bristol gamer
KinderHunter of Sarcastica, not even children are safe from wisecracks

Knight_Hospitaller

unread,
Nov 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/30/98
to
**Grin** now I had to jump in I guess I'm lucky but we have a Borders books
right across the street form Barnes and Noble and guess what
not only is their customer service beautiful they keep all kinds of obscure
tomes in stock (both places) so I usually milk em both, ie go to one get a
price in writing then go across the street and get it for 10% less **evil
grin**

I guess I'm just spoiled I like em both.
Rob Thibault aka Knight Hospitaller

Steve/Beth George wrote in message

>I've been following this thread the whole time and I decided to finally
>jump in. I demand one of two things from the stores I shop at:
>
>1) Cater to my whims without being a vulture
>
>or
>
>2) Leave me completely alone, but give me access to your computers. :)
>
And you wonder why people of all ilks end up at Amazon.com...

Steve

CindiLaine

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
Ok, my thing about Barnes and Noble is not that it is big, it's the fact of
what they choose to spend their money on. Customer Service? If you can get it
at B&N, good luck. Most of the people I worked with were avid readers who knew
their stuff. The problem is that B&N likes to scrimp on payroll so you could
have 3 people manning the whole store? What does this mean to you? It means
that the customer cant really get the help he or she needs because there just
isnt enought people to run the registers, information, answer phones, stock
etc. etc. What did this mean to me as a B&N employee? It meant that I was one
frazzled wreck trying to help 10 people at once and get paid six dollars and
hour when the fast food joint down the road HIRED at six dollars and hour plus
tuition reimbursement. Earlier this year B&N decided to be gracious (read
heavy sarcasm here) and give all their employees a raise across the board. A
whole quarter. Whoopee. Now I can afford that castle in the country Ive
always wanted. But of course to add insult to injury after the 25 cent raise
they cut all our hours so we were making LESS money then before our big raise.
Yes I know this is how big business works--no big surprise here. My point in
this is that customer service is more then a coffee shop and a large selection
of books. It's hiring and paying enough employees to actually be able to
provide customer service.
Ahem.

(jumping off my soapbox now)

Steve/Beth George

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
CindiLaine <cindi...@aol.com> wrote:

I've been following this thread the whole time and I decided to finally
jump in. I demand one of two things from the stores I shop at:

1) Cater to my whims without being a vulture

or

2) Leave me completely alone, but give me access to your computers. :)

I prefer #2. I adore customer service. I love to meet people in
stores that are truly helpful. But what I have found is most stores (Big &
Small) have poor customer service <period>. And if this is so, why should
I patronise a local mom-n-pop store just because a big uberstore is across
the street, when the customer service is nigh identical!

Yes I know a handful of small stores that are WONDERFUL to shop
at, and guess what - I go back and support them time and time again. But
when the majority of stores - Ignore <or worse> actively dislike customers
I take my shopping dollars to the best bargain (often the bigger stores,
because they are happiest ignoring you, but have better prices). And you


wonder why people of all ilks end up at Amazon.com...

Steve

PS

Better customer service comes with Higher wages, but who wants to
pay $20/hour to a clerk in a highly competitive labour market?

S

--

Dra...@rocketmail.com

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
In article <36632...@csd.uwm.edu>,

James Sweetland <swee...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
>
>(2) "cream skimming" where they use their
> clout to give big discounts on the more popular items and not carry
> the less profitable items.
>

I have always found it to be jsut the opposite, since the large B&N and
Borders opened. I was never able to find obscure/techinical/academic stuff
on the shelves of smaller stores, but I have rarely had a problem at the
supterstores. And they can almost always order what I am looking for, even
if it is a textbook, and often get it to me within days.

I do, however, always have this problem with chain record stores, which is
why I always buy my music at small shops or over the computer.

Dranaan
Wench #94
who needs some good ghost story books and reference works (fiction please)

Steve/Beth George

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
Knight_Hospitaller <crusader@_spamfree_knightsofsaintgeorge.com> wrote:

: I guess I'm just spoiled I like em both.

Personally, I prefer Border's - the three or four I end up at all have
good customer service.

Steve


CindiLaine

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
>CindiLaine <cindi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>I've been following this thread the whole time and I decided to finally
>jump in. I demand one of two things from the stores I shop at:
>
>1) Cater to my whims without being a vulture


Huh? I didnt write any of that.

Steve/Beth George

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
On 1 Dec 1998 01:49:30 GMT, cindi...@aol.com (CindiLaine) wrote:

>>CindiLaine <cindi...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>I've been following this thread the whole time and I decided to finally
>>jump in. I demand one of two things from the stores I shop at:
>>
>>1) Cater to my whims without being a vulture
>
>
>Huh? I didnt write any of that.

Sorry about that - I missed deleting a line - My mistake.

Steve


***********************************
For Best Results -- 86 the 86
***********************************

Wulfie

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
Let's go back to the very first post in this thread for a moment.

As someone who personally winces when seeing an urban legend touted as fact,
I would like to bring to the forefront two things which particularly struck
me:

<<AUSTIN, TX - A nationwide coalition that includes recording
artists Negativland, the estate of Terry Southern, Alt-X/Black
Ice, the AK Press, the Church of the SubGenius, and others is
declaring November 23 to be "Bag Day," and asking that at noon on
that day, people all over the U.S. protest the homogenizing and
destructive effects of corporate chains, by browsing in Barnes &
Noble bookstores with paper bags on their heads, according to an
email communication from RTMARK. >>

People walking around with bags on their heads? Whatever happened to the
good old days when you could show your social or political views by tying a
bit of colored ribbon to your door? Dunno, maybe it's the former
ComedySportz ref in me talkin', but IMHO, wearing a bag on your head is
*not* a way to be taken seriously by a corporate monolith... or almost
anyone else.

<<The idea for this national protest was conceived and launched by
the Austin-based activist group Friends United in Creative
Knowledge of the Faceless Attitudes of Corporate Entities.
[background edited by JHS]>>

One other individual whose name I forget commented on the acronym, which I
might have missed too if not for having it pointed out to me. In case
anyone missed it (and I'm guessing some people did, because now that I'm
aware of it, it sends out VERY loud alarms to me), one ESPECIALLY cannot get
himself or herself taken seriously if one says "Oh, yeah, I'm wearing a bag
on my head because I'm from F.U.C.K.F.A.C.E." (Abject apologies to all for
the language, but that's what it said.)

Because of those two elements in the original post, and ESPECIALLY because
they go together so well, I am extremely skeptical of the veracity of the
whole thing. Please note, I am not saying Barnes & Noble is managed and
operated by saints, or that I have any views on them one way or the other.
I am just saying that the whole thing smacks heavily of someone playing a
joke on the internet-reading populace (anyone remember the "Good Times"
virus?), getting them to spread a bogus message throughout the world by
playing on a common distrust/loathing of big corporations (although these
days everyone's favorite target seems to be Microsoft), and possibly getting
people to do something fairly silly in public without realizing it for the
sake of a cheap laugh.

To this last point: Did ANYONE on this newsgroup actually wear a brown paper
bag in a Barnes & Noble store on Nov. 23rd? Does anyone here know anyone
who did?

Corporate evils notwithstanding... I certainly hope not.

Wulfie
--
/\ /\
(o o)
(( O ))
\_/
U
Woof!


Steve/Beth George

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
Wulfie <Wul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
: Let's go back to the very first post in this thread for a moment.

Wulfie,

Thought it was silly. Once the F***Face acronym surfaced I
thought: Bad Joke. And besides - buy nothing day was the 27th and that is
a wee bit more fun.

And again you are right! Put a bag on your head and you won't
be taken seriously. If you must protest something and you WANT your
message to get across, you do the "thing" that the protest is about and
then you conform to the other social norms - that way you show the world
that you are not a wacko and have a serious issue to discuss.

example: protesting nudity.

1) Dress nakedly
2) Speak eloquently
3) Refrain from any other protests at the moment
(don't talk about vegetarianism, politics, nuclear power,
the environment, etc)

Focus on the key issue and get people to accept it. If you
overload peoples' circuits they will label you as an wacko, marginalise
you and go back to reading their mutual fund quotes. ;)

Steve

Just an idealist in a world of hedonists ;p


lau...@home.com

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
In article <7414vm$8...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
"Wulfie" <WulfieYEGO...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[Several very good points that demonstrate that the entire B&N Protest message
was most likely a hoax.]

What's kinda funny is that it is one of the largest threads to date and it is
completely off topic. :-)

Enjoying the irony, ;-P
Laura

...can somebody please pass the Nutella?...

NORMTUBA

unread,
Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
> "Wulfie" <WulfieYEGO...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>[Several very good points that demonstrate that the entire B&N Protest
>message
>was most likely a hoax.]
>
>What's kinda funny is that it is one of the largest threads to date and it is
>completely off topic. :-)
>
>Enjoying the irony, ;-P
>Laura
>

:)Permit me to disagree. The day the subject of books is off-topic to this
group is the day old Norm will stop dressing in military costume, stop reading
history, and cease playing the tuba. I don't know a bigger bunch of
regular readers than this bunch. :)


Laura

unread,
Dec 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/2/98
to
NORMTUBA wrote:
>
> :)Permit me to disagree. The day the subject of books is off-topic to this
> group is the day old Norm will stop dressing in military costume, stop reading
> history, and cease playing the tuba. I don't know a bigger bunch of
> regular readers than this bunch. :)

*grin* Indeed! Books are a wonderful topic and definitely on topic.

Read any good trashy romance novels lately? ;-)

-la la la Laura :-)

--
How old would you be if you didn’t know how old you was?
- Satchel Paige

NORMTUBA

unread,
Dec 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/3/98
to
>NORMTUBA wrote:
>>
>> :)Permit me to disagree. The day the subject of books is off-topic
to>this
>> group is the day old Norm will stop dressing in military costume, stop
>reading>> history, and cease playing the tuba. I don't know a bigger
bunch of
>> regular readers than this bunch. :)
>
>*grin* Indeed! Books are a wonderful topic and definitely on topic.
>
>Read any good trashy romance novels lately? ;-)
>
>-la la la Laura :-)
>
>
:) PUHLEASEE!!! :) Actually--each to their own. My wife--who is a
librarian--reads these. Not to my taste. Did you know that the more
purple is in the cover illustrations, the more sex scenes the volume has?
This according to my wife.


Morghana

unread,
Dec 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/3/98
to

In article <19981202195411...@ng147.aol.com>, norm...@aol.com
(NORMTUBA) writes:

> Did you know that the more
>purple is in the cover illustrations, the more sex scenes the volume has?
>
>This according to my wife.

Gads, and purple is one of my favorite colors!!!

~Morghana


Queen of the AFR Goddesses
Builder of Costumes (and splendid Wulfie tights)
Goddess of 'Puters
Proud Member of the Renaissance Mercenaries
Owned by Cats
oh, and professional computer geek, too......


ImWench157

unread,
Dec 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/3/98
to
>From: norm...@aol.com (NORMTUBA)

> Did you know that the more
>purple is in the cover illustrations, the more sex scenes the volume has?
>
>This according to my wife.

That's what I love about this group...never know when you'll be getting a
helpful hint. *eg*

Lisa

Wench #157
Assassin #003
Demi Goddess of Romantic Guidance
Wenches Forever, Forever Wenches
D'Cupcake MacDobhran
Gleaming Gleen mad driving machine of Sarcastica, demi goddess of
defensive driving swears
Member - Guild of St. Wilde

Wulfie

unread,
Dec 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/3/98
to
Morghana wrote in message <19981203003200...@ngol07.aol.com>...

>
>In article <19981202195411...@ng147.aol.com>, norm...@aol.com
>(NORMTUBA) writes:
>
>> Did you know that the more
>>purple is in the cover illustrations, the more sex scenes the volume has?
>>
>>This according to my wife.
>
>Gads, and purple is one of my favorite colors!!!


Reports forthcoming on whether more purple-covered books arrive in the
house.

DrgnflyDsn

unread,
Dec 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/3/98
to
>(NORMTUBA) writes:
>
>> Did you know that the more
>>purple is in the cover illustrations, the more sex scenes the volume has?
>>
>>This according to my wife.
>
>Gads, and purple is one of my favorite colors!!!


>Reports forthcoming on whether more purple-covered books arrive in the
house.

>Wulfie

I will be starting my holiday gift book shopping next week. The purple rule
most will be investigated thoroughly!
Ronda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dragonfly Design
http://members.aol.com/DrgnflyDsn
Masks, Historical Clothing Patterns, Garb
Remove "98" at end of e mail address to respond


Steve/Beth George

unread,
Dec 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/3/98
to
Wulfie <Wul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
:>
:>> Did you know that the more

:>>purple is in the cover illustrations, the more sex scenes the volume has?
:>>
:>>This according to my wife.
:>

: Reports forthcoming on whether more purple-covered books arrive in the
: house.

Wulfie,

NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Anecdotal evidence by one source!
Stop! Use the Science Ray!

"Mr. Spock set Phasers on Analyze."

Steve


: Wulfie


: --
: /\ /\
: (o o)
: (( O ))
: \_/
: U
: Woof!


--

Shadow

unread,
Dec 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/4/98
to
On 3 Dec 1998 13:46:32 GMT, "Wulfie" <Wul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Morghana wrote in message <19981203003200...@ngol07.aol.com>...
>>
>>In article <19981202195411...@ng147.aol.com>, norm...@aol.com
>>(NORMTUBA) writes:
>>

>>> Did you know that the more
>>>purple is in the cover illustrations, the more sex scenes the volume has?
>>>
>>>This according to my wife.
>>

>>Gads, and purple is one of my favorite colors!!!
>
>

>Reports forthcoming on whether more purple-covered books arrive in the
>house.
>
>Wulfie

Hmmmm ... Might have to check that one out myself ... So much for not
judging a book by it's cover eh ?? *eg*


Shadow-

Rogue #150
Proud Member of the Renaissance Mercenary Guild
Captain, Team Road Rennie-
"4 Wheels, 1.9 Litres, and an Ottertude"
Angus McKenny MacDóbhran
Servo of Sarcastica, Demi-god of film babbling
AFR Underworld God of Privy Stench
High Priest to the Goddess of Love
Pookie Bear *g*
Goddess is my Co-Pilot!
http://www.shadowsrealm.com
sha...@shadowsrealm.com
"In an infinite universe, The highly unlikely is inevitable"

Robert Doc Coleman

unread,
Dec 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/7/98
to
In article <19981203003200...@ngol07.aol.com>,
morg...@aol.com (Morghana) wrote:

>In article <19981202195411...@ng147.aol.com>, norm...@aol.com
>(NORMTUBA) writes:
>
>> Did you know that the more
>>purple is in the cover illustrations, the more sex scenes the volume has?
>>
>>This according to my wife.
>
>Gads, and purple is one of my favorite colors!!!
>

>~Morghana

Does that mean there's a lot of purple in your cover illustrations? ;)

Robert of Scaleslea
Master Scalesman (Retired)
Rogue #240
RenGeek

--
Just a guy with his own opinions.
"I only know everything when you ask the right questions."
http://www.his.com/brewer/

My use of this E-mail address does NOT constitute permission for
anyone to send me advertisements. Any unsolicited advertisements
received will be deemed an act of harrassment and reported to the
appropriate authorities.

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