Beaver Dam Eradication

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ChrisM

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Jun 24, 2003, 9:10:05 PM6/24/03
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I have been requested to help a friend get rid of a large beaver dam
(about 100 ft long, 5 Ft wide at the base and 4 feet tall. I have a
BATF high explosive license. Can someone give me some guidance on 1)
what is the best type of explosive to use ie; dynamite 2) the amount
to use per shot 3) spacing of shot pattern and 4) how to keep the
charge dry before detonation. Thanks.

Joe 123

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Jun 26, 2003, 11:28:44 AM6/26/03
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Why would you want to destroy a really neat beaver dam. poor little
critters wont have anyplace to live.

Id suspect youd want alot of heaving action.

"ChrisM" <URKI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
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ChrisM

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Jun 26, 2003, 6:37:03 PM6/26/03
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Yeah they are kind of cool. I am not destroying the lodge or killing
the beaver. However the dam they have built has resulted in 1-2 acres
now being a pond. Not good when the owner is developing the property
and land sells for $30,000 per acre. Hopefully the beaver will move
on down the river. Yes I would like heaving action, just don't want
to send the sticks, mud and whatever else to go into orbit. Thanks.

"Joe 123" <joe...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:<MiEKa.185113$4y6.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...

Don Thompson

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Jun 26, 2003, 8:13:48 PM6/26/03
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You need to be damn sure that the destruction of a Beaver Dam is not an
unlawful act in your state. You also better be damn sure that the
destruction of a wetland created by such a Damn Dam is not noticed in any
manner or fashion by the EPA, the federal Fish and Game folks, the UN
committee on the environment, or a local enviroterrorist group. Because what
you have outlined in your request is a violation of US federal law. And
nobody in the aforementioned groups gives a rats ass if the ground is worth
5 trillion dollars an acre.

--


Don Thompson

Ex ROMAD

Boomer

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Jun 26, 2003, 8:18:00 PM6/26/03
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". You also better be damn sure that the
destruction of a wetland created by such a Damn Dam is not noticed in any
manner or fashion by the EPA"

They can do that Don, no problem we do it all the time. However, for every acre of wetland
you blow-up, you must create 1 acre new of wetland somewhere else in the state. Of course
you pay for :-)

--
Boomer

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"Don Thompson" <flas...@ix.netcom.comghost> wrote in message
news:bdg25g$4qe$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
: You need to be damn sure that the destruction of a Beaver Dam is not an

: > > >
:
:


Don Thompson

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Jun 26, 2003, 9:05:33 PM6/26/03
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"Boomer" <wcw...@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:vfn3bmq...@corp.supernews.com...

> ". You also better be damn sure that the
> destruction of a wetland created by such a Damn Dam is not noticed in any
> manner or fashion by the EPA"
>
> They can do that Don, no problem we do it all the time. However, for every
acre of wetland
> you blow-up, you must create 1 acre new of wetland somewhere else in the
state. Of course
> you pay for :-)
>

Don't I just know it too. That prohibitory Reclamation Bond that increased
by 19 Million bucks two years ago on our property was bad enough. But when
you have to buy land at, say, $30,000 an acre, to replace land features
worth exactly $0 in place is truely a punitive rule. Our problem, like
yours, is that we aren't "developers" we are "exploiters". Those rape
artists who -call- themselves "developers" do a lot of things before they
come under the same "Official Scrutiny" that we have worked under for lo
these many years.

ChrisM

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Jun 27, 2003, 7:00:49 AM6/27/03
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It is not a federal offense. I have spoken to the USDA who blow up
dams all the time in NC ($10 trip charge and $75 per dam). Currently
inquiring with the US Army corp of engineers. This is not delineated
wetlands (which in our state is 2 acres replaced with every disturbed
acre of wetlands). Beavers like it or not are becomming a huge
problem. If it was your land that you paid $$$ for just to see a
overgrown rodent destroy the trees and land-you would probably feel
differently. Taken from another veiw point, if the beaver were human,
just think of all the permits required to dam up a waterway.

"Don Thompson" <flas...@ix.netcom.comghost> wrote in message news:<bdg56g$6fc$1...@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>...

Boomer

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Jun 27, 2003, 9:31:46 AM6/27/03
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I'm sorry Chris but, you are not the USDA, EPA, etc. You blow that dam on your own and you
will go to jail, designated wetlands or not. You have to have permission to blow it up.
You can't just go blow it up because someone asks you to. In some sates the GameWarden can
give you permission

--
Boomer

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"ChrisM" <URKI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
news:3267a168.03062...@posting.google.com...

: It is not a federal offense. I have spoken to the USDA who blow up

: > > :
: > > :
: > >
: > >


ChrisM

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Jun 27, 2003, 7:43:54 PM6/27/03
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This is my first post on this forum and I am very disappointed. After
reading old posts from people like Gerald Hurst-Jerry ICO, I figured
this was a forum of people actively involved in explosives, that know
their stuff and try to be supportive of anyone posting questions.
"you are not the USDA, EPA ....." You are correct I am not. However,
I have contacted the USDA, Army Corp of Engineers to get permission
for ME to demo the beaver dam. Here is what each agency has stated:
USDA-you do not need a permit as long as you do not disturb the lodge
or kill the beaver. I am not, as the owners have contracted a legal
licensed individual to handle it.
Wildlife Marine Fisheries-I was told that I need to take a class
(which I am going to do) to become certified in damage to wildlife and
the environment-will sign up Monday.
US Army Corp of Engineers-We do not care about dams that have been
created over the last twelve months. However, if the dam has been
there long term, and is in navigable waters, and waters of interstate
commerce, we need to see and inspect and bless what you are going to
do.
Cama (Coastal Area Management Agency)-Need to check with still
EPA-Need to check with, however based on older posts the only major bi
product of dynamite is CO2 and Water vapor. In fact when filing for
my Hi Explosives Manufacturing ATFE license, I stated the purpose and
the quantity of waste generated. I am part of their data base. But I
still need to check with them. My County Fire Marshal and County Code
Inspector know what I am planning on doing. I am not going to do the
dam, if any of the agencies say "hell no". I would rather do tree
stumps. And by the way "you are not the USDA, EPA ..." Each of these
agencies are under the same permitting rules as I am-per the USDA-and
are under the same restrictions. Each state has its own laws and some
are extremly restrictive. But I do not live in a communist, tree
hugging state like California. I am disappointed, as the only
responses I have received is "you are going to jail". I was expecting
a response of "you need to consider _____. It has a velocity of
______ is good heaving, low sensitivity, excellent water capabilities,
and you should consider using a quater stick so you don't do excessive
damage. You should check with the following agencies for permission or
a permit...." I guess I was asking too much.

"Boomer" <wcw...@chartermi.net> wrote in message news:<vfohsk8...@corp.supernews.com>...

Don Thompson

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Jun 27, 2003, 8:32:38 PM6/27/03
to
Why "disappointed"? Your first post stated:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I have been requested to help a friend get rid of a large beaver dam
(about 100 ft long, 5 Ft wide at the base and 4 feet tall. I have a
BATF high explosive license. Can someone give me some guidance on 1)
what is the best type of explosive to use ie; dynamite 2) the amount
to use per shot 3) spacing of shot pattern and 4) how to keep the
charge dry before detonation. Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now. Given the above included posting, if you were either myself or Bill
Wing, (both of us members of ISEE by the way) engaged in the business of
applied explosives as professionals with ethical codes and standards, would
you set forth a detailed description of a shot? Especially in this post 9-11
environment? When the person supposedly qualified to set and shoot the shot
asks: 4) how to keep the
charge dry before detonation. ?

Or would you set about telling the poster how the cow ate the cabbage? In
this regulatory and permit crazy environment you would tell the poster that
if he had done his basic homework he wouldn't have asked the question in the
way that he had. That IS the requirement set forth in our Code of Ethics.

Now. In order to answer the question behind the question you posed will
require details. Only one of which is: How far is the dam from any building,
occupied or not, and how far from any public roadway?

So you see there is no point in your "disappointment" when the question you
asked is basically unanswerable in its posed form.

--


Don Thompson
ISEE 200001274

Pyro Doug

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Jun 27, 2003, 10:57:45 PM6/27/03
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ChrisM wrote:

When I lived in Michigan there was this river that the Beavers would damn up, but it maintained
the echo system for other animals, the man that blew up the Beaver mound killed a mother with 3
little babies and was fined on the spot 15,000.00 and a scheduled court date to decide if jail
time would be permissible at that time, Now that was 24 years ago, I'm certain the fines and
penalties are much worse today! I would leave the Beavers alone thats nature, Do you want to
stop the owls from getting your freshly killed rabbit you hit by your car? well shooting the owl
from doing it's built in instinct could get you 30 or more days behind bars! If I saw someone
pouching in front of me at night, damn straight I will call the authorities and then they let
animal control in on the report! you will go to court and you will have a record that stays with
you till you die unless your a juvenile?

PD


ChrisM

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Jun 28, 2003, 3:21:00 PM6/28/03
to
There it is again, that holly than thou condinsating attitude. "Any
recommendations on how to keep the charge dry" is a valid question.
If I were planning on using Tannerite, than a sealed bottle charge
would be appropriate (per Tannerite). If I were to use Ng dynamite,
then a flexable tube sealed on one end and stemmed with sand would
work. So I do not think it was a stupid question. As far as you and
the other member being members of the ISEE, why don't you really
impress me. When I became a member of ISEE, all I did was state that
I was a licensed Pyrotechnic operator for ____ company, sent in a
check and Bam-I was a member also. As far your comment about code of
ethics-it is obvious that I am contacting every government agency I
can think of to get their blessing. Now why don't you really impress
me and tell me just what qualifies you as an expert on explosives. If
you are a head chemical engineer for Dupont explosives, own your own
blasting company or even know how to use dynamite, it would be a whole
lot better than "I am a member of ISEE" oh BOY!!! So far, based on
the lack of info and attitude, my guess is that you are a high school
chemistry teacher with no experience at all. It certainly does not
impress me that "lets talk chemistry" and lists a saltwater fish web
site. If I want to talk about reverse osmosis, high intensity
lighting, clown fish and anemonies" I would go there. Even if I were
to ask stupid questions, feeding me BS about how a cow eats cabbage is
a waste of your time and mine. It sure would have been nice (12 posts
ago) to have a post stating "we need more info on what you are trying
to accomplish". I would have stated that I am going to use dynamite
(ng 40) and planning on using a flexable tube to keep it waterproof
stemmed with sand, and spaced about every eight feet as far as a
patern. I am planning on doing eight charges at once in a series
detonated electicly with a blasting machine. All regulatory agencies
will be contacted for compliance. Now as far as "you need to educate
yourself before asking stupid questions"-I am fully licensed by BATFE
as a high explosive manufacturer, know the orange book like the back
of my hand, purchased numerous books such as blasters handbook, IME
does and don'ts, spent $2500 to travel across the country to take a
high eplosives course (class and practice)oh yeah, I am a member of
ISEE. I still am very much a novice due to lack of practice-hence the
post.

Pyro Doug <"Pyro_Doug<\":)\""@disneyworld.com> wrote in message news:<3EEA3D81...@disneyworld.com>...

Earl Colby Pottinger

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Jun 29, 2003, 4:31:12 PM6/29/03
to
URKI...@YAHOO.COM (ChrisM) :

> Yeah they are kind of cool. I am not destroying the lodge or killing
> the beaver. However the dam they have built has resulted in 1-2 acres
> now being a pond. Not good when the owner is developing the property
> and land sells for $30,000 per acre. Hopefully the beaver will move
> on down the river. Yes I would like heaving action, just don't want
> to send the sticks, mud and whatever else to go into orbit. Thanks.

Assuming it is legal, blowing the entire dam is going to cause problem down
stream. Why not remove a small section only to drain the pond and
keepremovinging the beaver work till it leaves.

Earl Colby Pottinger.

I assume this also means you have to take apart the lodge.
--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp

dickbrain

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Jun 29, 2003, 8:02:41 PM6/29/03
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In article <3267a168.03062...@posting.google.com>, ChrisM
<URKI...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

A single kenestick 1/3 (1/3 pound of ammonium nitrate based explosive)
is commonly used for this purpose. Tie the charge to a 2x4 and stick it
into the mud on the upstream side of the dam so that the cartridge is
at the bottom. The water will do a great job of tamping the charge.
This will blow a hole about 15 to 20 feet wide in the dam down to the
stream bed. It won't be too loud and it will not throw debris very far
because of the water. If you hide upstream you are particularly safe
from flying debris. After experimenting with this you may decide you
want to use a bigger charge.

The beaver lodge has a hole where they breathe and you can usually get
it open enough to stick a charge down to shelf where they live. This
shelf is above water so the resulting blast will throw debris quite far
and will be loud. There will only be a smoking crater in the water
where the lodge was.

Of course they will start rebuilding the whole thing as soon as you're
done so you might want to trap or shoot them when you're done. In most
places there is someone that will come and trap them

Dick

--
Richard Brain


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Steve Smith

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Jul 2, 2003, 1:34:40 AM7/2/03
to
Just do it. !!!


Use an AN based mix. Use 5lb charges, separated about 3 feet apart. (max)
be carefull of the size of the hole your blowing, being downstream with a
wall of water can be a bitch. Make sure the charges are down at the depth
you want the hole to be. If you want the hole to be 3 feet form the top,
then put the charge 3 feet down. Th more intimate the charge is with the
the damn, the better the shot. Putting the cage ontop of the damn wont
work. You'll need a HEFTY charge to breech the damn itself if you put the
charge on the water side of the damn, sunk down.


You can either do it one of two ways. one big charge, not recommend, or
many smaller charges, the best. Also much more controlled. I take it you
will be doing this electonically. Blow the charges in order, from one side
to the other. Use the ghetto A-team method, nails on a 2x4 and swipe the hot
end across. You want to "move" the branches, as well as the charges itself.
gotta give it some room "move" and do it's work.

Don't woory about the burden on top, it'll be move from the blast. I would
put all of the charges/devices in an ABS tube (5") cap on both ends, and
squibed. simple, easy, but expensive. ---make sure it's waterporrfed
well---

Do a test sjhot or two, who knows, maybe its a softer targe than you think.
Remember, your moving burden, not shattering or breaking product.


Do it, have fun, get it on video, and post it.

screw what the rest of the liberal-progressive-socialist people thnk about
what ain't THEIR property, that is PRIVATE, and BOUGHT and PAID for by a
PRIVATE person. Ever heard of property RIGHTS!!!!!!!!

The only thing you need to worry about is the possible flood downstream,
tha'll cause a rightfull lawsuit.

Screw the beaver, did he ask you if he/she could destroy the property?
nature happens, people are just as much as part of nature as that damn
beaver, it'll move on, it's not the end of the world. ast time i checked, a
1-2 acre, 2 beaver pond ain't an environmental disaster!

stevo

ChrisM

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Jul 2, 2003, 8:58:06 PM7/2/03
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Thanks for the responses. The last posts was the type of information
that I was looking for. I will post results (what was used and how
much). Again, thanks.


dickbrain <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<290620031802415540%nob...@nowhere.com>...

Steve Smith

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Jul 3, 2003, 10:53:12 PM7/3/03
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dickbrain is exactly that, a dickbrain...


stevo

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Mr.C.F.

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Jul 19, 2003, 9:17:56 PM7/19/03
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Perhaps the local animal control officer would be better suited for the job.

--
Chet, errrrr, Mr.C.F.


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GMAJaskol

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Jul 27, 2003, 11:02:00 PM7/27/03
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also check with local DNR to see if they,ll let you do it.

Steve Smith

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Aug 18, 2003, 8:01:43 PM8/18/03
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GMAJaskol wrote:
> also check with local DNR to see if they,ll let you do it.

What was the progress on this?? any video footage or pictures of before
and after...???

stevo

Frithiof Andreas Jensen

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Nov 10, 2010, 7:20:56 AM11/10/10
to
Mr.C.F. wrote:
> Perhaps the local animal control officer would be better suited for the job.
>
But that would rob Darwinian Selection of the opportunity of improving
the human gene-pool!

Me

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Nov 10, 2010, 1:54:15 PM11/10/10
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In article <z56dnbntffKWEEfR...@giganews.com>,

that totally depend on who was doing the Blasting.....

Me Just one, who has done that type of work in the past.....

jcummi...@gmail.com

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Jan 30, 2019, 7:19:04 AM1/30/19
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Unless it is an ancient beaver dam I wouldn’t worry at all. In MN you are supposed to obtain a permit from the dnr before removing a dam, but I’ve never heard of a case in which a phone call didn’t yield the answer “just get rid of it”. Fact is there are a lot of beavers, and the creation of dams can significantly alter the landscape, often in an undesireable way. Personally, if it is causing problems and it’s on private land, I’d just blogw the damn thing. And for god sakes, don’t involve the feds! If you’re that concerned, call the DNR and tell them the beavers are flooding your property, I’m pretty sure they will just give you the go ahead.

jcummi...@gmail.com

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Jan 30, 2019, 7:34:27 AM1/30/19
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I agree with you 100%. These government living assholes live citing laws and regulations. Personally, unless it is on a public waterway, I prefer to just deal with it and not get caught up in some buracreacy. That being said, here’s what I do. Obtain 3-4” pvc pipe and some endcaps. Use 4-6 foot lengths of pipe. Fill with ANFO and cap the ends. Prior to capping, put a half pound ANNM in a sandwich bag at the top for your booster.Drill a hole for your cap wire/fuse. Seal with silicone if you can’tkeep it dry. Take these “beaver sticks” and jam them down into the dam every 10-20 feet. Say bye bye dam. If your like Boomer and lack common sense and the ability to think without involving a three or four lettter agency, I’ll note that you should space and size these sticks as needed, my numbers are just generalizations. Have fun😊
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