Howl
Frederick Williams
last fantastic book..."?
--
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by
this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift: Thoughts on Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting
Don Phillipson
news:4DF3B3AA...@btinternet.com...
> What do the asterisks stand for in "with mother finally *****, and the
> last fantastic book..."?
You must provide the exact citation (cf. other posts about context.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
musika
Don Phillipson <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> typed:
> "Frederick Williams" <freddyw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:4DF3B3AA...@btinternet.com...
>
>> What do the asterisks stand for in "with mother finally *****, and
>> the last fantastic book..."?
>
> You must provide the exact citation (cf. other posts about context.)
http://www.wussu.com/poems/agh.htm
--
Ray
UK
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howl#Part_I_2
"with mother finally ******"
Ginsberg admitted that the deletion here was an expletive. He left
it purposefully elliptical “to introduce appropriate element of
uncertainty.” In later readings, many years after he was able to
distance himself from his difficult history with his mother, he
reinserted the expletive.
Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg#Relationship_with_his_parents
When he was in junior high school, he accompanied his mother by bus
to her therapist. The trip deeply disturbed Ginsberg — he mentioned
it and other moments from his childhood in "Kaddish". His
experiences with his mother's mental illness and her
institutionalization are also frequently referred to in "Howl". For
example, "Pilgrim State, Rockland, and Grey Stone's foetid halls" is
a reference to institutions frequented by his mother and Carl
Solomon, ostensibly the subject of the poem: Pilgrim State Hospital
and Rockland State Hospital in New York and Greystone State Hospital
in New Jersey. This is followed soon by the line "with mother
finally ******." Ginsberg later admitted the deletion was the
expletive "fucked." He also says of Solomon in section three, "I'm
with you in Rockland where you imitate the shade of my mother," once
again showing the association between Solomon and his mother.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
Frederick Williams
Thank you. I read a version with five stars, and though "fucked"
occurred to me, I thought it didn't fit.
Frederick Williams
>
> "Frederick Williams" <freddyw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:4DF3B3AA...@btinternet.com...
>
> > What do the asterisks stand for in "with mother finally *****, and the
> > last fantastic book..."?
>
> You must provide the exact citation (cf. other posts about context.)
Sorry. I had assumed that only a brain dead person wouldn't know what
Howl was.
Daniel James
> Sorry. I had assumed that only a brain dead person wouldn't know what
> Howl was.
When I had seen only the subject -- before I read the posting itself --
I rather assumed that the piece would be about Dianna Wyn Jones's
/Howl's Moving Castle/, or possibly the Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli film
inspired by that book.
.. it's certainly more entertaining and in better taste than anything
by Ginsberg.
Cheers,
Daniel.
CDB
> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What do the asterisks stand for in "with mother finally *****,
>>>>> and the last fantastic book..."?
>>>>
>>>> You must provide the exact citation (cf. other posts about
>>>> context.)
>>>
>>> http://www.wussu.com/poems/agh.htm
>>
>> From Wikipedia:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howl#Part_I_2
>>
>> "with mother finally ******"
>>
>> Ginsberg admitted that the deletion here was an expletive. He
>> element of uncertainty.â? In later readings, many years after
>> he was able to distance himself from his difficult history
>> with his mother, he reinserted the expletive.
>>
>> Also:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg#Relationship_with_his_parents
>>
>> When he was in junior high school, he accompanied his mother
>> by bus to her therapist. The trip deeply disturbed Ginsberg
>> "Kaddish". His experiences with his mother's mental illness
>> and her institutionalization are also frequently referred to
>> in "Howl". For example, "Pilgrim State, Rockland, and Grey
>> Stone's foetid halls" is a reference to institutions
>> frequented by his mother and Carl Solomon, ostensibly the
>> subject of the poem: Pilgrim State Hospital and Rockland State
>> Hospital in New York and Greystone State Hospital in New
>> Jersey. This is followed soon by the line "with mother finally
>> ******." Ginsberg later admitted the deletion was the
>> expletive "fucked." He also says of Solomon in section three,
>> "I'm with you in Rockland where you imitate the shade of my
>> mother," once again showing the association between Solomon and
>> his mother.
>
> Thank you. I read a version with five stars, and though "fucked"
> occurred to me, I thought it didn't fit.
>>
a nice ring.