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Local vs universal pronunciation

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Steve Hayes

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Feb 21, 2022, 10:32:45 PM2/21/22
to
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:

> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
> with those used by the locals?

Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?

Or Bicester as "Bister"?



--
Steve Hayes http://khanya.wordpress.com

Peter Moylan

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Feb 21, 2022, 11:07:27 PM2/21/22
to
On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>
>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>> with those used by the locals?
>
> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>
> Or Bicester as "Bister"?

I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see now
that Wikipedia confirms that.

As for Cirencester, I've never had the courage to hazard a guess.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

occam

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Feb 22, 2022, 3:30:44 AM2/22/22
to
On 22/02/2022 05:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>>
>>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>>> with those used by the locals?
>>
>> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>>
>> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
>
> I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see now
> that Wikipedia confirms that.

I had a colleague who lived in Bicester. You are correct to think
'bister'. However, following that logic, shouldn't Cirencester be
pronounced 'sister' (or cister)?

charles

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Feb 22, 2022, 4:15:20 AM2/22/22
to
In article <j7jl9i...@mid.individual.net>,
occam <nob...@nowhere.nix> wrote:
> On 22/02/2022 05:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we
> >>> use with those used by the locals?
> >>
> >> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
> >>
> >> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
> >
> > I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see now
> > that Wikipedia confirms that.

> I had a colleague who lived in Bicester. You are correct to think
> 'bister'. However, following that logic, shouldn't Cirencester be
> pronounced 'sister' (or cister)?

This is English - logic doesn't apply


> >
> > As for Cirencester, I've never had the courage to hazard a guess.
> >

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Richard Heathfield

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Feb 22, 2022, 4:15:23 AM2/22/22
to
On 22/02/2022 3:32 am, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>
>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>> with those used by the locals?
>
> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?

Not I, sir. (I used "Siren-sester").

> Or Bicester as "Bister"?

Yes, sir. I, sir.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Richard Heathfield

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Feb 22, 2022, 4:21:49 AM2/22/22
to
On 22/02/2022 4:07 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>>
>>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>>> with those used by the locals?
>>
>> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>>
>> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
>
> I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see now
> that Wikipedia confirms that.

It is, so it ought to.

> As for Cirencester, I've never had the courage to hazard a guess.

I grew up within 15 miles of the place, and never heard it called
anything but Sirensester, except for a Latin teacher who occasionally
referred to it as Corinium.

Peter Moylan

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Feb 22, 2022, 6:24:41 AM2/22/22
to
On 22/02/22 19:30, occam wrote:
> On 22/02/2022 05:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>>>> with those used by the locals?
>>>
>>> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>>>
>>> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
>>
>> I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see now
>> that Wikipedia confirms that.
>
> I had a colleague who lived in Bicester. You are correct to think
> 'bister'. However, following that logic, shouldn't Cirencester be
> pronounced 'sister' (or cister)?

What about Bertieworcester?

musika

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Feb 22, 2022, 8:29:39 AM2/22/22
to
On 22/02/2022 08:30, occam wrote:
> On 22/02/2022 05:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>>>> with those used by the locals?
>>>
>>> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>>>
>>> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
>>
>> I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see now
>> that Wikipedia confirms that.
>
> I had a colleague who lived in Bicester. You are correct to think
> 'bister'. However, following that logic, shouldn't Cirencester be
> pronounced 'sister' (or cister)?
>
Only if it was spelt Cicester.


--
Ray
UK

Adam Funk

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Feb 22, 2022, 10:00:06 AM2/22/22
to
On 2022-02-22, occam wrote:

> On 22/02/2022 05:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>>>> with those used by the locals?
>>>
>>> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>>>
>>> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
>>
>> I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see now
>> that Wikipedia confirms that.
>
> I had a colleague who lived in Bicester. You are correct to think
> 'bister'. However, following that logic, shouldn't Cirencester be
> pronounced 'sister' (or cister)?

It ought to be "sinster" (and it ought to have a minster) but logic is
not required (or even strongly encouraged) in English place names.


>
>
>>
>> As for Cirencester, I've never had the courage to hazard a guess.
>>
>

--
Besides, if you only follow the map, you won't find all the
good places! ---The Galdurian

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

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Feb 22, 2022, 12:08:44 PM2/22/22
to
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:30:42 +0100, occam <nob...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

>On 22/02/2022 05:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>>>> with those used by the locals?
>>>
>>> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>>>
>>> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
>>
>> I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see now
>> that Wikipedia confirms that.
>
>I had a colleague who lived in Bicester. You are correct to think
>'bister'. However, following that logic, shouldn't Cirencester be
>pronounced 'sister' (or cister)?
>
>
This discussion gives various pronunciations of Cirencester that
have-been/are used:
https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/3


>>
>> As for Cirencester, I've never had the courage to hazard a guess.
>>

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

occam

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Feb 22, 2022, 12:52:02 PM2/22/22
to
If you read one of the comments in the URL given by Peter Duncanson, one
of the throw away comments says:

"I’ve seen it noted that Shakespeare referred to the town in one of the
historical plays as ‘Sisiter’…and that would fit with what you’re
telling me."

All we need now is someone to authenticate the Shakespeare factoid.

Adam Funk

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Feb 22, 2022, 1:45:06 PM2/22/22
to
Come on, you're talking about someone who couldn't spell his own name!


--
you have slipped from beneath me, like a false and nervous squid

Richard Heathfield

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Feb 22, 2022, 1:47:04 PM2/22/22
to
No can do.

$ grep -i Sisiter shakespeare.txt
$ grep -i Sisister shakespeare.txt
$ grep -i ester shakespeare.txt | fmt -1 | grep -i ester | grep -vi
yester | grep -vi worcester | grep -vi winchester | grep -vi leicester
| grep -vi rochester | grep -vi western | grep -vi jester | grep -vi
gloucester | grep -vi forester | grep -vi gamester | grep -vi fester |
grep -vi pester | sort | uniq
cestern
Chester;
honester
honester
Prester
protester,
sequester
tester
Tester
testern'd

...none of which look plausible for Cirencester nymshifts.

The days of hand-waving "it's in Shakespeare somewhere" are probably over.

Paul Wolff

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Feb 22, 2022, 5:56:38 PM2/22/22
to
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022, at 09:21:46, Richard Heathfield posted:
>On 22/02/2022 4:07 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the names we use
>>>> with those used by the locals?
>>>
>>> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>>>
>>> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
>> I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I see
>>now that Wikipedia confirms that.
>
>It is, so it ought to.
>
>> As for Cirencester, I've never had the courage to hazard a guess.
>
>I grew up within 15 miles of the place, and never heard it called
>anything but Sirensester, except for a Latin teacher who occasionally
>referred to it as Corinium.
>
That one either rhymes with gadolinium or falls under "there may be many
others but they haven't been discarvard".
--
Paul

Sam Plusnet

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Feb 22, 2022, 7:09:24 PM2/22/22
to
On 22-Feb-22 9:21, Richard Heathfield wrote:

>> As for Cirencester, I've never had the courage to hazard a guess.
>
> I grew up within 15 miles of the place, and never heard it called
> anything but Sirensester, except for a Latin teacher who occasionally
> referred to it as Corinium.
>

It probably still says that on his library ticket.


--
Sam Plusnet

HVS

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Feb 23, 2022, 12:50:58 PM2/23/22
to
On 22 Feb 2022, occam wrote

> On 22/02/2022 05:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/02/22 14:32, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:37:49 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think this is legitimate. Why should we have to align the
>>>> names we use with those used by the locals?
>>>
>>> Did anyone, ever, pronounce Cirencester as "Sisister"?
>>>
>>> Or Bicester as "Bister"?
>>
>> I have always assumed that Bicester is pronounced Bister, and I
>> see now that Wikipedia confirms that.
>
> I had a colleague who lived in Bicester. You are correct to think
> 'bister'. However, following that logic, shouldn't Cirencester be
> pronounced 'sister' (or cister)?

Logic? In place-name pronunciations? Nah; not gonna work.

--
Cheers, Harvey
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