What is the word for the stick & handkerchief carried over a vagrant's shoulder?
Nancy Pi Squared
handkerchief to?
I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
held over one shoulder, is actually called?
What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
stick?
What is that handkerchief called?
Do these two things they tote about have names?
Thanks,
Nancy
Mike Lyle
Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the
handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name,
either.
--
Mike.
UC
Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
> I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
I think it's called a 'pike'.
Yup. See #3 below.
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
> What is that handkerchief called?
Poke?
> Do these two things they tote about have names?
> Thanks,
> Nancy
Main Entry:6pike
Pronunciation:*
Function:noun
Inflected Form:-s
Etymology:Middle French pique, from piquer to prick, pierce, nettle,
pique, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin piccare, from (assumed) piccus
woodpecker, from Latin picus * more at PIE
1 : a weapon consisting of a long wooden shaft with a pointed steel
head sometimes having a hook or pick on the side and used by the foot
soldier until superseded by the bayonet
2 obsolete : PIKEMAN
3 : the sharp-tipped staff on which a flag is carried *carried on a
pike 9 feet, 10 inches long including the spear tip W.F.Harris*
Also:
5 dialect England : one of various sharp-pointed tools or implements
(as a pitchfork) *the windrows are loaded on a wagon by hand with a
pike F.D.Smith & Barbara Wilcox*
Barbara Bailey
Together, the stick and bundle make a "bindlestiff". I'm not sure
whether the component parts have names beyond "stick" and "bundle"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Brian M. Scott
<news:15mmac01pmiwu.11q9lf7q4vky3$.d...@40tude.net> in
alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage,sci.lang:
A bundle containing his clothes and possessions is called a
'bindle', whence the term 'bindlestiff' for a tramp who
carries such a bundle.
Brian
Lars Eighner
<15mmac01pmiwu.11q9lf7q4vky3$.d...@40tude.net>,
the lovely and talented Nancy Pi Squared
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
bindle, hence, bindle-stiff for hobo.
> I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
> What is that handkerchief called?
> Do these two things they tote about have names?
> Thanks,
> Nancy
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
At the touch of love, everyone becomes a poet. --Plato
Harlan Messinger
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
>
> I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
>
> What is that handkerchief called?
For US hobo terminology, see "bindle", "bindle stick", "bindle stiff" at
http://www.hobonickels.org/alpert04.htm
In Australia, a swagman carries his swag (bedroll) and tuckerbag (sack
of food), but I don't know if either is on a stick.
Mike Lyle
Harlan Messinger wrote:
> Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
> > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> > handkerchief to?
> >
> > I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> > held over one shoulder, is actually called?
> >
> > What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> > stick?
> >
> > What is that handkerchief called?
>
> For US hobo terminology, see "bindle", "bindle stick", "bindle stiff" at
>
> http://www.hobonickels.org/alpert04.htm
I wish I'd held my peace now! "Bindle" and relatives are wonderful. But
OED says merely "US and Canadian slang...A bundle containing clothes
and possessions, esp. a bedding-roll carried by a tramp. Hence
bindle-man, -stiff, a tramp who carries such a bundle."
> In Australia, a swagman carries his swag (bedroll) and tuckerbag (sack
> of food), but I don't know if either is on a stick.
No stick that I've ever heard of; and there'd be no advantage in
carrying a blanket-roll on the end of a stick. The bundle on a stick
was strictly fairy-story stuff for me, and I never saw the logic of it.
--
Mike.
Harlan Messinger
Over the course of a day it's easier to bear the weight on top of the
shoulder than by carrying it in one's hand. Presumably a knapsack
(rucksack, backpack) wasn't available or affordable.
A. Gwilliam
> Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
>
> > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka
> > dot handkerchief to?
>
> > I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that
> > stick, held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> I think it's called a 'pike'.
>
> Yup. See #3 below.
>
> > What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to
> > the stick?
>
> > What is that handkerchief called?
>
> Poke?
>
> > Do these two things they tote about have names?
>
> Main Entry:6pike
> Pronunciation:*
> Function:noun
> Inflected Form:-s
> Etymology:Middle French pique, from piquer to prick, pierce, nettle,
> pique, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin piccare, from (assumed) piccus
> woodpecker, from Latin picus * more at PIE
>
> 1 : a weapon consisting of a long wooden shaft with a pointed steel
> head sometimes having a hook or pick on the side and used by the foot
> soldier until superseded by the bayonet
> 2 obsolete : PIKEMAN
> 3 : the sharp-tipped staff on which a flag is carried *carried on a
> pike 9 feet, 10 inches long including the spear tip W.F.Harris*
>
> Also:
>
> 5 dialect England : one of various sharp-pointed tools or implements
> (as a pitchfork) *the windrows are loaded on a wagon by hand with a
> pike F.D.Smith & Barbara Wilcox*
This is incredible even for you. Your cited dictionary entry does not
at any point include the definition you claim it does!
It is also considered appropriate to state your source when quoting
material written by others. Especially when it's copyrighted.
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
UC
Yes, #3 a sharp-tipped stick on which a flag is carried. I suppose the
'flag' could also be a bag without forcing the issue too far. I'm not
an expert, just trying to help.
Reader
news:15mmac01pmiwu.11q9lf7q4vky3$.dlg@40tude.net...
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
>
> I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
A bindlestiff or bindlepike.
>
> What is that handkerchief called?
A bindle.
Mike Lyle
Harlan Messinger wrote:
> Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
> > I wish I'd held my peace now! "Bindle" and relatives are wonderful. But
> > OED says merely "US and Canadian slang...A bundle containing clothes
> > and possessions, esp. a bedding-roll carried by a tramp. Hence
> > bindle-man, -stiff, a tramp who carries such a bundle."
> >
> >> In Australia, a swagman carries his swag (bedroll) and tuckerbag (sack
> >> of food), but I don't know if either is on a stick.
> >
> > No stick that I've ever heard of; and there'd be no advantage in
> > carrying a blanket-roll on the end of a stick. The bundle on a stick
> > was strictly fairy-story stuff for me, and I never saw the logic of it.
>
> Over the course of a day it's easier to bear the weight on top of the
> shoulder than by carrying it in one's hand. Presumably a knapsack
> (rucksack, backpack) wasn't available or affordable.
With the stick, you still have to use your hand, though I agree it
isn't bearing much of the weight. As for swaggies, well, the blanket
roll was classically slung on the back with rope, string, or strap.
--
Mike.
Martin Ambuhl
> Together, the stick and bundle make a "bindlestiff". I'm not sure
> whether the component parts have names beyond "stick" and "bundle"
No, the stick and bundle ('bindle') make a part of the accoutrements of
a bindlestiff, who is the entire hobo or tramp himself.
Peter T. Daniels
I was thinking "boodle"?
R H Draney
>
>Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
>> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
>> handkerchief to?
>>
>
>For US hobo terminology, see "bindle", "bindle stick", "bindle stiff" at
>
>http://www.hobonickels.org/alpert04.htm
>
>In Australia, a swagman carries his swag (bedroll) and tuckerbag (sack
>of food), but I don't know if either is on a stick.
"Tuckerbag" and "swag" may also be, respectively, the "kit" and "caboodle" one
often hears of....
In Japanese, the handkerchief is called "furoshiki", and wrapping up things for
carrying is just one of many uses for it....r
--
"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.
Peter T. Daniels
Gamma wrote:
> In article <1161895531.1...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> so much the stick but the belongings anyway.
In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery, and these days
mostly refers to the freebies or "gift bags" that are given to
celebrities who attend an event, and by further extension, any sort of
esteemable giveaways (when Oprah gave a car to everyone in her audience
that day, that was swag, too).
Tony Cooper
wrote:
Bindle? a small bundle of items rolled up inside a blanket and
carried over the shoulder or on the back; a bedroll. Not a cloth on a
stick, but the word is associated with tramps.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Tony Cooper
No, the "bindlestiff" is the person with the bindle.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>
http://www.lausd.k12.ca.us/Belmont_HS/mice/bindle.html
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
>handkerchief to?
Bindlestiff?
It's not in my dictionary, but it's the word that comes to mind.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Tony Cooper
<haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:39:55 GMT, Nancy Pi Squared <weird...@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>>What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
>>handkerchief to?
>
>Bindlestiff?
>
>It's not in my dictionary, but it's the word that comes to mind.
The man, not the bindle that he carries.
From the poem "Bindlestiff" by Edwin Ford Piper:
The mesh of leafy branches rustled loud,
Into the road slid Bindlestiff. You’ve seen
The like of the traveller: gaunt humanity
In stained and broken coat, with untrimmed hedge 35
Of rusty beard and curling sunburnt hair;
His hat, once white, a dull uncertain cone;
His leathery hands and cheeks, his bright blue eyes
That always see new faces and strange dogs;
His mouth that laughs at life and at himself.
and another verse that speaks of the bindle:
Bindlestiff topped a hillock, against the sky 55
Showed stick and bundle with his extra shoes
Jauntily dangling. Bird to bird once more
Made low sweet answer; in the wild rose cups
The bee found yellow meal; all softly moved
The white and purple morning-glory bells 60
As on the gently rustling hedgetop leaves
The sun’s face rested. Bindlestiff was gone.
Douglas G. Kilday
UC wrote:
> Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
> > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> > handkerchief to?
>
> > I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> > held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> I think it's called a 'pike'.
>
> Yup. See #3 below.
>
> > What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> > stick?
>
> > What is that handkerchief called?
>
> Poke?
>
> > Do these two things they tote about have names?
> > Thanks,
> > Nancy
>
> Main Entry:6pike
> Pronunciation:*
> Function:noun
> Inflected Form:-s
> Etymology:Middle French pique, from piquer to prick, pierce, nettle,
> pique, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin piccare, from (assumed) piccus
> woodpecker, from Latin picus * more at PIE
A more plausible explanation of the Romance 'pike'-nouns was given by
G.-G. Nicholson in one of the early volumes of _Revue de Linguistique
Romaine_ (sorry I don't have the exact reference). N. postulated that
Latin <exspi:ca:re> 'to remove (grain) from the ear' became in Vulgar
Latin *expicare, whence *pica 'ear of grain' was extracted (in some
dialects *picus, and *picca where 'ear of grain' had been Lat. *spicca
var. of <spi:ca>), and generalized in the sense 'pointed object'. If
your woodpecker-etymology above is followed, each of the Romance lgs.
with some variant of this noun must have independently back-formed it
from the verb.
>
> [...]
>
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 05:36:46 +0200, Steve Hayes
><haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:39:55 GMT, Nancy Pi Squared <weird...@sbcglobal.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
>>>handkerchief to?
>>
>>Bindlestiff?
>>
>>It's not in my dictionary, but it's the word that comes to mind.
>
>The man, not the bindle that he carries.
I think my knowledge of it came from "A canticle for Leibowitz".
Richard Bollard
There are a variety of terms for the burden:
From http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/ozwords/October_2004/Shiralee.html :
drum, swag, bundle, curse, matilda, shiralee, parcel, turkey, donkey,
national debt, and bluey.
More on matilda:
http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/ozwords/May_99/index.html
(Select no. 2.)
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
TOF
Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
>
> I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
>
> What is that handkerchief called?
>
> Thanks,
> Nancy
I always thought it was that proverbial "knapsack" (on my back).
>From The Happy Wanderer:
I love to go a-wandering,
Along the mountain track,
And as I go, I love to sing,
My knapsack on my back.
TOF
Eric Schwartz
> In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery, and these days
> mostly refers to the freebies or "gift bags" that are given to
> celebrities who attend an event, and by further extension, any sort of
> esteemable giveaways (when Oprah gave a car to everyone in her audience
> that day, that was swag, too).
"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by
vendors or sponsors of the convention.
-=Eric
John Holmes
> In article <1161895531.1...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name,
>> either.
>
> not
> so much the stick but the belongings anyway.
>
Not quite: a swag is very definitely a bedroll as described there. They
are much bulkier, as you can see from the thing slung diagonally across
this bloke's back:
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/images/SwagFAQ.jpg
There might be some clothes and other small belongings inside it, but
bulkier things like a billy or frying pan are usually carried separately
as in the picture.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Tony Cooper
wrote:
And, this time of the year in the US, a term to describe what the
children bring home in their trick-or-treat bags.
John Holmes
> There are a variety of terms for the burden:
>
> From http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/ozwords/October_2004/Shiralee.html :
> drum, swag, bundle, curse, matilda, shiralee, parcel, turkey, donkey,
> national debt, and bluey.
>
> More on matilda:
>
> http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/ozwords/May_99/index.html
>
> (Select no. 2.)
Thanks for that, Richard. I remember having heard about the German
connection before, but hadn't seen it in such a detailed form.
There was also a school of thought that it wasn't originally "Matilda",
but "mit Hilda". "Auf die Walze gehen mit Hilda"?
Rey said he wasn't familiar with anything like that as an idiom, so
maybe that puts the kibosh on it, or else it was extremely obscure to
begin with. Maybe a Tanundadeutsch original?
Eric Schwartz
Hrm, I don't think we ever called it "swag" in eastern Tennessee
WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand,
nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy".
-=Eric
Peter T. Daniels
It's _very_ recent in all but the criminal sense.
LFS
Not sure what you mean by very recent. OED cites examples of swag
meaning of bunches of flowers or fruit to the late 18th century (same
for the criminal sense) and the Australian swag to the 19th.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Peter T. Daniels
What have we been talking about? We have been talking about the
extension from 'proceeds of criminal activity' to 'free gift you get
for just showing up'.
What does that have to do with either bunches of flowers or fruit, or
the Australian swag?
Tony Cooper
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Swag" is certainly a term for the proceeds of criminal activity, but
it's perfectly acceptable to use the term to describe non-criminal
activity if there is no intent to falsely portray the proceeds as
criminally obtained. Halloween candy can be described as "swag",
"loot" or "booty" just as you can say "The little buggers held me up
for a fistful of candy" without meaning "buggers" in that other sense
or "held me up" in the sense of an actual robbery.
>What does that have to do with either bunches of flowers or fruit, or
>the Australian swag?
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Harlan Messinger
More recently, "swag", or, for some reason, "shwag", has come to refer
to the free loot given to attendees at award ceremonies in the
entertainment world and, by extension, at trade shows and the like.
Tony Cooper
I wouldn't know. My invitation to the Oscars must have been lost in
the mail. I did come home from a trade show with a goodie bag of two
ballpoint pens, a 3' tape measure, two koozies, and a letter opener.
I don't think the take met the minimum requirement for "swag" even
though one of the pens wrote in black, blue, and red.
Eric Schwartz
Which is what Tony and I said, lo these many quoted posts above.
-=Eric, who would ordinarily snip them if he weren't proving a point
R H Draney
I got a rock.
Eric Schwartz
> Which is what Tony and I said, lo these many quoted posts above.
Oops, my mistake, it was Peter and I. Sorry 'bout that.
-=Eric
Peter T. Daniels
My point, which Tony seems to have missed, is that it's a _recent_
semantic development.
Tony Cooper
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
Well, yeah, I suppose I did. Now that I've re-read:
"Hrm, I don't think we ever called it "swag" in eastern Tennessee
"WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand,
"nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy".
"It's _very_ recent in all but the criminal sense."
I see that you made that point. The only thing left to know is
"Why?". Why did you make the point? Of what importance is the point?
Does it solve something? Make something clear that was not clear
before? Contribute to the understanding of something?
What's "_very_ recent", by the way? Tuesday? October, 1998? Did the
introduction of use coincide with something that makes the connection
_very_ relevant? Tet? Something to do with "Happy Days"?
It must be important since it's the subject of a "point", but damned
if I can figure out why it's important.
Snidely
Richard Bollard wrote:
[...]
I like the line elsewhere in that issue that reads, "they changed the
original p sound to an f, but did they use an F? Not on your
nelly!-they used a V and pretended that it made an effish sound"
/dps
Peter T. Daniels
A way to figure it out would be to read the last few messages above the
one you quoted.
October 1998 is a possibility; I'd have put it as "within the last ten
years." I was not a "Happy Days" watcher, so whatever triggered that
particular synapse is irrelevant.
Odysseus
Harlan Messinger <hmessinger...@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
> For US hobo terminology, see "bindle", "bindle stick", "bindle stiff" at
>
> http://www.hobonickels.org/alpert04.htm
I've also heard "bindle" used to refer to a little piece of paper folded
into a sort of envelope, for carrying small quantities of cocaine,
methamphetamine, or other such powdery substances.
--
Odysseus
Roland Hutchinson
In centuries past, perhaps before the invention of the getaway car,
criminals -- burglers in particular -- are portraied as carrying
misappropriated tangible personal property in a bundle or bag or some sort.
Could this be a connection?
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
geo...@ankerstein.org
Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
myth.
GFH
Gerry
"Nancy Pi Squared" <weird...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:15mmac01pmiwu.11q9lf7q4vky3$.dlg@40tude.net...
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
>
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
>
> What is that handkerchief called?
>
> Do these two things they tote about have names?
The bundle may be called a bindle.
The whole deal with the bindle on a stick may be called a bindlestiff.
The online MW says a bindlestiff is a hobo who carries a bindle.
But in the book _A Canticle for Liebowitz_, the term bindlestiff is clearly
used to denote the bindle-and-stick combination (it was part of the habit of
the Liebowitzian monks).
Gerry
Roland Hutchinson
Is it still swag if you have to enter a drawing at the trade show for a
chance to get it? (I'd say yes.)
If so, I've got you beat running away in the swag department: the IBM
ThinkPad that I'm typing this on is a souvenir of LinuxWorld New York 2001.
Pretty much Oscar-worthy swag, that.
Jim Heckman
On 26-Oct-2006, Eric Schwartz <emsc...@pobox.com>
wrote in message <8764e6h...@localhost.localdomain>:
With the folk etymology "Stuff We All Get".
--
Jim Heckman
Peter T. Daniels
Got one for the phonotactics-violating "shwag"?
CDB
> Jim Heckman (reply-to) wrote:
>> On 26-Oct-2006, Eric Schwartz <emsc...@pobox.com>
>>> "Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by
>>> vendors or sponsors of the convention.
>>
>> With the folk etymology "Stuff We All Get".
>
> Got one for the phonotactics-violating "shwag"?
Sure as shootin'.
Herman Rubin
>>Tony Cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes:
>>> On 26 Oct 2006 19:42:04 -0600, Eric Schwartz <emsc...@pobox.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by
>>> >vendors or sponsors of the convention.
>>> And, this time of the year in the US, a term to describe what the
>>> children bring home in their trick-or-treat bags.
>>Hrm, I don't think we ever called it "swag" in eastern Tennessee
>>WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand,
>>nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy".
>I got a rock.
Another word for it is "bindle". Along with this goes
another word for the one who steals another's bindle;
he is a "bindlestiff".
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Felicity Jones
"Nancy Pi Squared" <weird...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:15mmac01pmiwu.11q9lf7q4vky3$.dlg@40tude.net...
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
>
> I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
>
> What is that handkerchief called?
>
> Do these two things they tote about have names?
>
Nancy
In the Australian song, "Waltzing Matilda," the word "matilda" refers to
the bundle carried by a hobo. "Swag" refers to his bedroll.
Felicity
benlizross
>
> In article <ehtqb...@drn.newsguy.com>,
> R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >Eric Schwartz filted:
>
> >>Tony Cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes:
> >>> On 26 Oct 2006 19:42:04 -0600, Eric Schwartz <emsc...@pobox.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by
> >>> >vendors or sponsors of the convention.
>
> >>> And, this time of the year in the US, a term to describe what the
> >>> children bring home in their trick-or-treat bags.
>
> >>Hrm, I don't think we ever called it "swag" in eastern Tennessee
> >>WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand,
> >>nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy".
>
> >I got a rock.
>
> Another word for it is "bindle". Along with this goes
> another word for the one who steals another's bindle;
> he is a "bindlestiff".
I find no evidence of such a meaning. You may be reading it in from the
current use of "stiff" as a verb to mean "cheat, swindle". In fact the
"stiff" in that compound just means "person". (The term "working stiff"
meaning "ordinary working guy" used to be quite common.) So
"bindlestiff" just meant a hobo, not a thief.
Ross Clark
Snidely
TOF wrote:
[...]
> I always thought it was that proverbial "knapsack" (on my back).
>
> >From The Happy Wanderer:
>
> I love to go a-wandering,
> Along the mountain track,
> And as I go, I love to sing,
> My knapsack on my back.
knapsacks (and rucksacks -- ruck is from the German for "back" -- as in
anatomy) represent a higher standard of living than hobos usually have.
Hobos would tend to have few belongings (most of their clothes are
being worn), and few commercial products for carrying them. Hence
taking a scrap of fabric (which may also be their blanket or poncho, 2
uses makes the value higher), and tying everything up in it. Without a
built-in strap, you either rig something like a gunsling from scraps of
rope or a belt, or you hang it from a stick long enough that a light
touch with your hand has the leverage to balance the heavier bundle
behind (as in the posted picture, although a front view would be nice).
A few hobos might have a suitcase salvaged from some dump or garbage
bin, but once the handle broke off, it wouldn't be any fun to carry,
and even with the handle it would be a pain if you had to walk very
far. A hobo who rode the rails might keep it longer than one who was
on foot.
/dps
Mike Lyle
No, but I suppose it could be loosely related to the perhaps recent BrE
habit of saying things like "shtreet" for "street" -- I say "perhaps
recent" because things have a habit of turning out to be less recent
than one thought. Non-criminal "swag", for example: it seems, from
Partridge _Hist. Sl._, to have been originally neutral, and perhaps a
reference to the bag in which the stuff was carried. I remember that
domestic draperies are sometimes arranged in "swags": I believe there's
a technical difference between a swag and a flounce or something. The
criminal implication seems to have become dominant, but not exclusive:
even outside the wonderful world of soft furnishings, late 19-C showmen
referred to prizes they offered as "swag" (Partridge).
IIUC, the little goodie-bags children now have to be given as a reward
for going to somebody's party seem often to be called "swag-bags" in
BrE. That matches the US Hallowe'en use somebody mentioned. I fancy
that as young adults in the '60s we sometimes referred to presents
brought back from holidays as "loot", though not AFAIR "swag".
--
Mike.
John Savage
>> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the
>> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name,
>> either.
>
>I think this is what Australians in particular call a "swag". Maybe not
>so much the stick but the belongings anyway.
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swag>
Colloquially known as his 'matilda'; and the stick is not carried over the
shoulder, but carried like a walking stick so it's at the ready to dispatch
any snake that poses a danger. In hard times, the snake may become dinner.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> Gamma wrote:
> > Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
> > > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> > > > handkerchief to?
> > > Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the
> > > handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name,
> > > either.
> >
> > I think this is what Australians in particular call a "swag". Maybe not
> > so much the stick but the belongings anyway.
>
> In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery,
What is/was a "highwayman" called in the US?
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> Gamma wrote:
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swag>
>
> Not quite: a swag is very definitely a bedroll as described there. They
> are much bulkier, as you can see from the thing slung diagonally across
> this bloke's back:
> http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/images/SwagFAQ.jpg
> There might be some clothes and other small belongings inside it, but
> bulkier things like a billy or frying pan are usually carried separately
> as in the picture.
"Take your bed and wok":-)
Mike Wright
Peter T. Daniels
ranjit_...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Gamma wrote:
> > > Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
> > > > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> > > > > handkerchief to?
>
> > > > Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the
> > > > handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name,
> > > > either.
> > >
> > > I think this is what Australians in particular call a "swag". Maybe not
> > > so much the stick but the belongings anyway.
> >
> > In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery,
>
> What is/was a "highwayman" called in the US?
I'm not sure we ever had such an institution. A stagecoach might be
held up by a "bandit," so maybe that's an equivalent. These days we
have "carjackers."
Pat Durkin
<ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1162759273.8...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> Gamma wrote:
>> > Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
>> > > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white
>> > > > polka dot
>> > > > handkerchief to?
>
>> > > Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the
>> > > handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name,
>> > > either.
>> >
>> > I think this is what Australians in particular call a "swag". Maybe
>> > not
>> > so much the stick but the belongings anyway.
>>
>> In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery,
>
> What is/was a "highwayman" called in the US?
Well, we have had "highway robbery", of course, but it is a rather trite
(though not trivial) complaint, primarily made about political
corruption. Enron's executives, engaged in it at an astronomical level.
I mean, politicians are pikers, compared to that.
The term "highwayman" may have been used in the early days, of course.
But brigands seem to me to have had their specialties during the era in
which we romanticized the trade: bank robbers, stage coach robbers,
train robbers. Then there were rustlers and horse thieves.
Bandits and outlaws were other terms, before we started calling people
"stick-up artists" and "hold-up artists".
Chris Tsao
Nancy Pi Squared wrote:
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
>
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
>
> What is that handkerchief called?
>
> Do these two things they tote about have names?
> Thanks,
> Nancy
I forgot it. I just typed in "runaway slave" in Google Images and got
"stick-bundle" and then from that, I typed in stick bundle, and on the
first page got a cartoon drawing of vagrants carrying their belongings
with a cloth tied around a stick and a caption that said "bundle on a
stick." I checked up to page 3 and didn't see any other drawings.
http://historyproject.ucdavis.edu/khapp.php?Min=66
There might be another word for it? Unless stick-bundle is the word I
forgot?
Chris Tsao
John Holmes wrote:
> Gamma wrote:
> > Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the
> >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name,
> >> either.
> >
> > I think this is what Australians in particular call a "swag". Maybe
> > not
> > so much the stick but the belongings anyway.
> >
>
> Not quite: a swag is very definitely a bedroll as described there. They
> are much bulkier, as you can see from the thing slung diagonally across
> this bloke's back:
> http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/images/SwagFAQ.jpg
> There might be some clothes and other small belongings inside it, but
> bulkier things like a billy or frying pan are usually carried separately
> as in the picture.
I coincidentally learned the word bedroll yestereven for the first time
in my life reading Lonesome Dove. They carried it around on their
horses. I think I know what it looks like without having to verify it
in Google Images. It's sort of like a sushi role or a tootsie role, I'd
say.
Peter T. Daniels
Having learned the word "bedroll," why would you spell "sushi roll" and
"Tootsie Roll" that way?
Mark Wallace
An unwritten rule of this group is that we do not question other
participants' sexual preferences.
Snidely
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Chris Tsao wrote:
> > I coincidentally learned the word bedroll yestereven for the first time
> > in my life reading Lonesome Dove. They carried it around on their
> > horses. I think I know what it looks like without having to verify it
> > in Google Images. It's sort of like a sushi role or a tootsie role, I'd
> > say.
>
> Having learned the word "bedroll," why would you spell "sushi roll" and
> "Tootsie Roll" that way?
Shirley he was talking about the role that toes play in squishing the
sushi into the blankets.
/dps
Peter T. Daniels
Dustin Hoffman made sushi? And don't call me Shirley.
Mike Lyle
Need to be careful with this, and judge from context what's being
referred to. Among the non-swaggie classes, a "bedroll" would have been
a purpose-made heavy canvas cover, sometimes with a mackintosh lining,
and fastened with straps, in which one's bedding was, indeed, rolled
for travel. It was an indispensable possession in various outposts of
empire and elsewhere back then.
--
Mike.
Chris Tsao
I'm pretty sure I read the word oilroll in Lonesome Dove yesterday.
Something about how Lorena backed people's stuff (like clothing) in an
oilroll. I'll research the word now and if I can't find it, I'll check
the book for the correct word.
Chris Tsao
> I'm pretty sure I read the word oilroll in Lonesome Dove yesterday.
> Something about how Lorena backed people's stuff (like clothing) in an
> oilroll. I'll research the word now and if I can't find it, I'll check
> the book for the correct word.
It's probably toilet paper and paper towels.
Chris Tsao
I thought it would be more likely that there wouldn't be a space or a
hyphen and I was too lazy to think about whether or not I should
capitilize tootsie and roll.
Pat Durkin
"Chris Tsao" <rigid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1163101501.5...@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Something about how Lorena backed people's stuff (like clothing) in an
> oilroll. I'll research the word now and if I can't find it, I'll check
> the book for the correct word.
I am not sure about this, but I think that the "oilroll" (a new term for
me) was an oilcloth, which was used as a tarpaulin for a leanto, a
slicker (over the head and shoulders in a rainstorm), the base for the
bedding on the ground, and to protect and contain bedding, leathers, and
other personal items for the horseman (or sailor, etc). It was usually
made of a kind of duck or sailcloth embedded with oil (later rubberized)
to impede the entry of damp or rain, etc.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-oilcloth.html
Heavier materials could be used to make a floor or wall covering.
Even after the beginning of the vinyl age, with decorator prints, the
everyday tablecloth was still called "oilcloth".
Chris Tsao
That's it. It was Dish Boggett who packed extra clothes in the
aforemention oilcloth, so he therefore had dry clothes (on page 290).
The group camped out to ride out a bad storm, so everybody is packing
up now, so I confused who is packing what.
Peter T. Daniels
You wrote "sushi role" and Tootsie Role," thus spawning a spate of
unfortunate puns.
Chris Tsao
Oh role and not roll.
Mike Lyle
Pat Durkin wrote:
> "Chris Tsao" <rigid...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1163101501.5...@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Mike Lyle wrote:
> >> Need to be careful with this, and judge from context what's being
> >> referred to. Among the non-swaggie classes, a "bedroll" would have
> >> been
> >> a purpose-made heavy canvas cover, sometimes with a mackintosh
> >> lining,
> >> and fastened with straps, in which one's bedding was, indeed, rolled
> >> for travel. It was an indispensable possession in various outposts of
> >> empire and elsewhere back then.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure I read the word oilroll in Lonesome Dove yesterday.
> > Something about how Lorena backed people's stuff (like clothing) in an
> > oilroll. I'll research the word now and if I can't find it, I'll check
> > the book for the correct word.
>
> I am not sure about this, but I think that the "oilroll" (a new term for
> me) was an oilcloth, which was used as a tarpaulin for a leanto, a
> slicker (over the head and shoulders in a rainstorm), the base for the
> bedding on the ground, and to protect and contain bedding, leathers, and
> other personal items for the horseman (or sailor, etc). It was usually
> made of a kind of duck or sailcloth embedded with oil (later rubberized)
> to impede the entry of damp or rain, etc.
"Oilskin" in these parts. The cloth was treated with boiled linseed
oil, which dries out. Oilskin smocks and overtrousers were standard
gear at sea. Barbour make, or made, waxed smocks in a yellowish colour
in imitation.
>
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-oilcloth.html
>
> Heavier materials could be used to make a floor or wall covering.
>
> Even after the beginning of the vinyl age, with decorator prints, the
> everyday tablecloth was still called "oilcloth".
I remember that horrible but practical stuff: always seemed to have
flowers printed on it. A sort of plastic film on one side, and cloth on
the reverse. It wasn't the same as oilskin, but I suppose its ancestor
was: certainly everybody called it "oilcloth".
--
Mike.
John Atkinson
"Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote...
That's an fairly good discription of what's called a "swag" among the
car-camping classes here in Oz
John.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
FWIW, I remember that well.
--
Charles Riggs
Pat Durkin
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote in message
news:ak2ml2pahsj7kpqcb...@4ax.com...
I looked in my pantry. Don't have the vinyl-covered stuff any longer.
Just a plastic one for just-in-case.
stac...@gmail.com
stac...@gmail.com
professo...@gmail.com
satins...@gmail.com
John Geoffrey
ello...@gmail.com
CDB
> Bindle
Cousin of swag, constant companion of swagmen and bindlestiffs.
lydia...@gmail.com
> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot
> handkerchief to?
>
> I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick,
> held over one shoulder, is actually called?
>
> What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the
> stick?
>
> What is that handkerchief called?
>
> Do these two things they tote about have names?
> Thanks,
> Nancy
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/jappl.1969.27.5.687