"Pop"?
JPKIRCHNER
helped by a British ghost writer, and published by the British arm of an
American publishing conglomerate. The English in it is very British, but I
found this line:
"The woman offered us tea and coffee; we asked for pop."
Pop? Does this also refer to a sweet carbonated beverage in England? This is
the term for such beverages in large parts of the midwestern US, and it is
considered "eccentric" by "soda" drinkers from the two coasts. In a New York
published book, the term "pop" would have been changed to "soda" or the
regionally neutral "soft drink".
Is this "pop" term widespread in Britain? If yes, how widespread, and if no,
what do people say instead?
Thanks.
Jamie
Trev
>
>Is this "pop" term widespread in Britain? If yes, how widespread, and if no,
>what do people say instead?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jamie
It is still in fairly common usage in the UK - paricularly with the
older generation. When I was a child in the sixties fizzy drinks were
always known as a drink of pop.
"Corporation pop" was the name my grandfather gave to water, making us
think it was something special.
Trev (Milnrow, UK)
mailto: tr...@ecl.u-net.com
paul stanbrook
similar drinks can also be thus referred.
Regards,
Paul
Dr Robin Bignall
>I've been reading the British autobiography of a British woman, assumably
>helped by a British ghost writer, and published by the British arm of an
>American publishing conglomerate. The English in it is very British, but I
>found this line:
>
> "The woman offered us tea and coffee; we asked for pop."
>
>Pop? Does this also refer to a sweet carbonated beverage in England? This is
>the term for such beverages in large parts of the midwestern US, and it is
>considered "eccentric" by "soda" drinkers from the two coasts. In a New York
>published book, the term "pop" would have been changed to "soda" or the
>regionally neutral "soft drink".
>
>Is this "pop" term widespread in Britain? If yes, how widespread, and if no,
>what do people say instead?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jamie
In the Midlands and North of England, 'pop' is indeed carbonated
beverages of various flavours. Still, today, people up there have pop
delivered to their doors like milk (but weekly, rather than daily),
but the supermarkets are gradually taking the customers away, and the
practice is dying out. During summer vacations when I was at
university, I used to be a 'popman' in many of the towns in
Nottinghanshire, Derbyshire and Leicestershire.
--
wrmst rgds
RB...(docr...@cwcom.net)
vellov
Trev wrote in message <3916b62f...@news.u-net.com>...
>On 07 May 2000 14:35:42 GMT, jpkir...@aol.com (JPKIRCHNER) wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Is this "pop" term widespread in Britain? If yes, how widespread, and if
no,
>>what do people say instead?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Jamie
>
>older generation. When I was a child in the sixties fizzy drinks were
>always known as a drink of pop.
>
>"Corporation pop" was the name my grandfather gave to water, making us
>think it was something special.
I don't know where 'pop' occurs other than Lancs and Yorks, though. I do
remember hearing 'corporation pop' - in Rochdale, not five miles from Trev's
Milnrow. Carbonated drinks were (are?) known as 'fizzy pop', 'lemon pop',
'orange pop' and the like.
Trev, do you remember black peas? A very Lancashire thing, only available on
Bonfire Night and when the fair came round. The fairground on Cronkeyshaw
Common used to have a black pea tent - 3d a bowl, I think.
With respect,
vellov
RGB
its use is now a little dated, and is often used a little ironically:
"I had too much pop last night" - alcohol
"I say, you chaps, let's get some pop!" - parody of English public school
novel.
In fact, even the phrase "a glass of pop" reminds me very much of my
childhood in the 50s/60s. It is dated, but would still be understood
without a glossary throughout the UK. The lines from the book that you
quote clearly refer to the reaction of children on being offered the
"grown-up" drinks of tea or coffee.
--
Richard
'86 90 2.5D Hardtop
Pembrokeshire, UK
Richard....@btinternet.com
JPKIRCHNER wrote in message
<20000507103542...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
>I've been reading the British autobiography of a British woman, assumably
>helped by a British ghost writer, and published by the British arm of an
>American publishing conglomerate. The English in it is very British, but I
>found this line:
>
> "The woman offered us tea and coffee; we asked for pop."
>
>Pop? Does this also refer to a sweet carbonated beverage in England? This
is
>the term for such beverages in large parts of the midwestern US, and it is
>considered "eccentric" by "soda" drinkers from the two coasts. In a New
York
>published book, the term "pop" would have been changed to "soda" or the
>regionally neutral "soft drink".
>
JPKIRCHNER
in England. In the US it is considered a real dialect marker. People from the
East and West coasts move to the Midwest and are so irritated by the term that
they swear they will never start saying it. Midwesterners who have moved to
the coasts often come back and lord it over us that they don't say "pop"
anymore.
Advertisers here used to use "soft drink", so as not to clash with any local
dialects (all soft drinks are called "Coke" in the South), but now they are
getting very aggressive about using "soda", and it drives people in pop country
up the wall.
Thanks for clarifying this usage to me.
JK
James Silverton
>
> Trev wrote in message <3916b62f...@news.u-net.com>...
> >On 07 May 2000 14:35:42 GMT, jpkir...@aol.com (JPKIRCHNER) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> Trev, do you remember black peas? A very Lancashire thing, only available on
> Bonfire Night and when the fair came round. The fairground on Cronkeyshaw
> Common used to have a black pea tent - 3d a bowl, I think.
> With respect,
> vellov
Well, the thread is drifting as usual(g)! Actually, I spent a few years
of my childhood in a town called Blyth not far from Newcastle and I have
fond memories of something that sounds similar to "black peas". If so,
they were not just a Lancashire speciality. They were called "carlins",
I think (spelling is very dubious) and I seem to remember that their
availability was very seasonal.
Jim.
--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland.
Trev
<vel...@control98.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Trev, do you remember black peas? A very Lancashire thing, only available on
>Bonfire Night and when the fair came round. The fairground on Cronkeyshaw
>Common used to have a black pea tent - 3d a bowl, I think.
>With respect,
>vellov
>
I don't have to think back too far to remember black peas. They are
still very popular here - although, being born in Harpurhey, I hadn't
heard of them until I moved here to Milnrow 20 years ago. They are, of
course, a little more than 3d now! (I've still got some threpenny bits
somewhere - the hexagonal ones...not the silver ones!)
The first year I lived here in Milnrow there was a knock on the door
on New Year's Eve and when I opened it a group of children, looking
like chimney sweeps, dashed into the house wielding brushes and
shovels. They went right through the place, supposedly brushing out
the "old" so that the "new" could take its place. Finally one of them
poked a shovel at me and wouldn't leave until I put some money on it!
I think this custom was called mumming or humming or something like
that - probably because they hummed all the time they were running
round the house.
Happy days!!!.............What about "Split the kipper"?? Do you
remember that?
Dr Robin Bignall
Just as a minor addition, the company that I used to work for is still
going, but the owner is retiring soon, and nobody seems to want it as
a going concern. At its peak it offered some 24 or so different
flavours. All of the usual ones were there, like lemonade, limeade,
cherryade, grapefruitade, plus the dreaded dandelion and burdock (a
sort of liquid equivalent of Marmite!), jet black and tasting rather
like cough medicine to me, but much favoured in the Midlands. Then
there was Gran-Shan, a proprietary non-alcoholic shandy, cream soda, a
most sickly concoction, and strawberryade, pineappleade -- you name
it! ('Ades' more pleasant than the one we currently have!) They mixed
the syrups to their own secret formulae and until the 70s were highly
successful at keeping the huge, country-wide companies to a very low
market share. Then came the supermarkets and an age where wives
started working. (At a time before the 70s or so, working men in
general were fiercely proud that they could 'win the bread' by their
own efforts.) Delivery rounds on weekdays other than Friday (payday)
found streets full of empty houses with nobody to collect money from
until the evening, so the job of roundsman began to be less
attractive, and my friend had to close his bottling line and just sell
pop which was made by those same national companies, but relabelled.
Badge engineering!
Forgive my reminiscences, but I'd love to know from any correspondents
in the north of England whether the weekly pop delivery still thrives.
--
wrmst rgds
RB...(docr...@cwcom.net)
Rudolf Schwarzkopf-Zskai
Dr Robin Bignall said:
: Just as a minor addition, the company that I used to work for is still
: going, but the owner is retiring soon, and nobody seems to want it as
: a going concern. At its peak it offered some 24 or so different
: flavours. All of the usual ones were there, like lemonade, limeade,
: cherryade, grapefruitade, plus the dreaded dandelion and burdock (a
: sort of liquid equivalent of Marmite!), jet black and tasting rather
: like cough medicine to me, but much favoured in the Midlands.
I shall absolutely *not* lie down defencelessly and allow any slur to be
attached to the word Marmite.
Rudolf
JPKIRCHNER
>childhood in the 50s/60s. It is dated, but would still be understood
>without a glossary throughout the UK. The lines from the book that you
>quote clearly refer to the reaction of children on being offered the
>"grown-up" drinks of tea or coffee.
Except that they were grown women who had been sold into slave marriages on the
Arabian Peninsula. Maybe it was meant to show that they had cravings for
things from their English teenhood even after all those years and several kids.
An aspect I hadn't thought of.
JK
JPKIRCHNER
>going, but the owner is retiring soon, and nobody seems to want it as
>a going concern. At its peak it offered some 24 or so different
>flavours. All of the usual ones were there, like lemonade, limeade,
>cherryade, grapefruitade, plus the dreaded dandelion and burdock (a
>sort of liquid equivalent of Marmite!), jet black and tasting rather
>there was Gran-Shan, a proprietary non-alcoholic shandy, cream soda, a
>most sickly concoction, and strawberryade, pineappleade -- you name
>it! ('Ades' more pleasant than the one we currently have!) They mixed
>the syrups to their own secret formulae and until the 70s were highly
>successful at keeping the huge, country-wide companies to a very low
>market share. Then came the supermarkets and an age where wives
>started working. (At a time before the 70s or so, working men in
>general were fiercely proud that they could 'win the bread' by their
>own efforts.) Delivery rounds on weekdays other than Friday (payday)
>found streets full of empty houses with nobody to collect money from
>until the evening, so the job of roundsman began to be less
>attractive, and my friend had to close his bottling line and just sell
>pop which was made by those same national companies, but relabelled.
>Badge engineering!
>Forgive my reminiscences, but I'd love to know from any correspondents
>in the north of England whether the weekly pop delivery still thrives.
Except for the home delivery, this sounds like local pop companies in the
States. A million flavors, some proprietery, some varying seasonally. Two of
ours in Detroit are still going, but it gets harder and harder to find their
wares, as national chains contract only with Coke and Pepsi. Now you're only
sure to find them at the nearest Arab market on the corner.
JK
vellov
Trev wrote in message <391a29ea...@news.u-net.com>...
Note for non-Lancastrians: Harpurhey and Milnrow are about ten miles apart.
There is still an enormous amount of micro-regional variation in accent and
customs, isn't there?
Mumming. Mummers are something to do with re-enactments of the Crusades, or
something like that. 'Mummers' plays' rings a bell - any folklore
historians? I can remember mummers, too. The children were all blacked up
with soot.
Split the kipper. The game with the knife? We used to throw a penknife so
that it stuck in the ground between the legs of the person with whom one was
playing. After each successful throw, one would take a step further back and
throw again...The game ended when one player either chickened out or got
injured.
Can you buy black peas ready-cooked in Milnrow? I can remember, on the
Castleton side of Rochdale, a man coming round in the evening with a barrow,
crying 'Black peas!' People would take their bowls out to be filled with a
ladle from a tureen on the barrow, heated by a gas or, more likely, paraffin
stove.
With respect,
vellov
RGB
married with children, but this has a bit of a false ring about it, to me.
I can't imagine English women asking for "pop" under any circumstances,
unless in jest.
English women would almost certainly, if they *really* didn't want the tea,
ask for "a glass of lemonade, please" or similar. The term "pop" was far
too closely associated with children to be acceptable serious adult usage.
Maybe I'm reading far too much into something I haven't read, but it's a
thought.
--
Richard
'86 90 2.5D Hardtop
Pembrokeshire, UK
Richard....@btinternet.com
JPKIRCHNER wrote in message
<20000509064920...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
M.J.Powell
freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Trev wrote in message <391a29ea...@news.u-net.com>...
>>On Sun, 7 May 2000 20:34:04 +0100, "vellov"
>><vel...@control98.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Trev, do you remember black peas? A very Lancashire thing, only available
>on
>>>Bonfire Night and when the fair came round. The fairground on Cronkeyshaw
>>>Common used to have a black pea tent - 3d a bowl, I think.
Did they have 'Dandelion and Burdock' where you were?
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
Dr Robin Bignall
<ta...@face.value> wrote:
>
>Dr Robin Bignall said:
>
>: Just as a minor addition, the company that I used to work for is still
>: going, but the owner is retiring soon, and nobody seems to want it as
>: a going concern. At its peak it offered some 24 or so different
>: flavours. All of the usual ones were there, like lemonade, limeade,
>: cherryade, grapefruitade, plus the dreaded dandelion and burdock (a
>: sort of liquid equivalent of Marmite!), jet black and tasting rather
>: like cough medicine to me, but much favoured in the Midlands.
>
>I shall absolutely *not* lie down defencelessly and allow any slur to be
>attached to the word Marmite.
>
>Rudolf
>
>
>
Humble apologies. My tongue was in cheek when I wrote that (it often
is when I've eaten Marmite, sometimes for days.) No, no, I didn't mean
that. I've been eating Marmite all of my life, and I have the scars to
prove it. No, no, I'm giving the wrong impression here. I'll try
again. My favourite use for Marmite, in addition to the obvious one of
its substitution for creosote in painting fences, is in Boeuf en
Croute. (That's Beef Wellington in the UK.) You put a half-centimetre
layer of pate on a thick slice of beef, wrap it in pastry, and bake it
in the oven. The Marmite trick is to spread a thin layer of Marmite
between the pate and the beef (don't use too much). Gives it a yummy,
tangy taste, which really brings out the flavour of the beef.
--
wrmst rgds
RB...(docr...@cwcom.net)
RGB
--
Richard
'86 90 2.5D Hardtop
Pembrokeshire, UK
Richard....@btinternet.com
>Split the kipper. The game with the knife? We used to throw a penknife so
Rudolf Schwarzkopf-Zskai
Dr Robin Bignall said:
: Forgive my reminiscences, but I'd love to know from any correspondents
: in the north of England whether the weekly pop delivery still thrives.
Now that I have recovered sufficiently from The Great Marmite Smear, I
should like to inform you that here in Nottingham UK, (which, for our US
cousins, is referred to as being in the East Midlands, not the north -
that's thirty-five miles up the road), there is a local pop company called
'Jones' which has vans driving about the place making home deliveries. In
the phone book they are listed under Jones Soft Drinks.
I have somehow picked up the impression that the kind of lads who drive
these vans, making the deliveries, are what we would call in UK as 'wide
boys', probably on commission and therefore perhaps a little aggressive in
their, how shall we say, their *marketing tactics* - 'You WILL drink this
Dandelion and Burdock Mrs Williams, even if it *does* taste like nasty
arse-shite.' I think these salesmen graduate to become double-glazing
people.
Rudolf
JPKIRCHNER
>married with children, but this has a bit of a false ring about it, to me.
>I can't imagine English women asking for "pop" under any circumstances,
>unless in jest.
>English women would almost certainly, if they *really* didn't want the tea,
>ask for "a glass of lemonade, please" or similar. The term "pop" was far
>too closely associated with children to be acceptable serious adult usage.
>
>Maybe I'm reading far too much into something I haven't read, but it's a
>thought.
They were still gum-snapping teenagers when their dad fooled them into going
there, and they never had the chance to grow into true Englishwomen. They
still had a lot of strange teenage yearnings after they had grown up, largely
out of nostalgia for their old life in England, which was of course a teenage
life.
JK
Dr Robin Bignall
Well, I'm from Nottingham, and Jones is the company I worked for in 8
3-month student vacations. The company is still a small family
business run by the grandson of the founder. Their roundsmen are on
commission, of course. So is my milkman, who regularly tries to sell
me butter, yoghurt, cream, cheese, real fruit juices, ice-cream, bread
and fresh fruit. Come to that, my gas, electricity and water companies
try to sell me insurance, credit cards, appliances, wines and
holidays. My phone company pushes cable TV and Internet services. So
what?
I can't say that I ever sold double glazing on graduation, but I did
spend a couple of years selling mainframes! Maybe that's as bad! The
average popman usually has so many calls to make each day that if he
had to visit his van twice each call (once to find what they want,
again to go and fetch it) he'd never get done. One quickly learns what
each customer has regularly, and goes to the door with just those
items already in hand. Repeat orders are the key to the business;
casual trade is not, and the volume of pop sold varies little from
summer to winter. Christmas is the biggest time of the year.
I think that any salesman trying to browbeat a Midlands housewife into
extraordinary purchases of Dandelion and Burdock would probably get
hit over the head with his bottles.
--
wrmst rgds
RB...(docr...@cwcom.net)
vellov
M.J.Powell wrote in message ...
Yes, indeed. Abbreviated to 'Dandock', although I can't remember if this was
a trade name or not. There was a weird little herbalist's shop on Drake
Street where the weird little herbalist sold things like glasses of
sarsaparilla and genuine unfizzy dandelion and burdock, presumably made from
real dandelions etc.
With respect,
vellov
RGB
--
Richard
'86 90 2.5D Hardtop
Pembrokeshire, UK
Richard....@btinternet.com
JPKIRCHNER wrote in message
<20000510063620...@ng-fh1.aol.com>...
RGB
taken back to the girl's flat, and she secretly eats some Marmite before
kissing him?
She's *really* gorgeous, but he retches and pulls away, and I'm shouting at
the telly "you stupid, stupid man!"
After all, Marmite's lovely, innit?
--
Richard
'86 90 2.5D Hardtop
Pembrokeshire, UK
Richard....@btinternet.com
Rudolf Schwarzkopf-Zskai wrote in message
<8fb489$e3o$2...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Trev
<vel...@control98.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Can you buy black peas ready-cooked in Milnrow? I can remember, on the
>Castleton side of Rochdale, a man coming round in the evening with a barrow,
>crying 'Black peas!' People would take their bowls out to be filled with a
>ladle from a tureen on the barrow, heated by a gas or, more likely, paraffin
>stove.
>With respect,
>vellov
>
Having done some investigation on the matter, I find that dried black
peas seem only to be available on or around bonfire night. The cry of
"black peas" has not been heard here for many a year.
RGB
--
Richard
'86 90 2.5D Hardtop
Pembrokeshire, UK
Richard....@btinternet.com
vellov wrote in message <8fclg7$aob$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
JPKIRCHNER
"Sold" by Zana Muhsen. You can't get it in the US. I had to order it through
amazon.co.uk.
JK