stimuli - lee or lie?
9willows
how is the word stimuli (the plural of stimulus) pronounced - is the final
syllable as in "lee" or as in "lie"?
is it the same for both BrE and AmE?
my pronouncing dictionary (it's not an EPD though) gives the "lie" version
but I've recently heard someone say it with "lee" (could it be AmE?)
btw: posting a phonetic-related question I wonder whether SAMPA (Speech
Assessment Methods Phonetic Alphabet) is popular with this newsgroup.
thanks
9willows
Odysseus
>
> I'd be grateful for clarifying this one:
>
> how is the word stimuli (the plural of stimulus) pronounced - is the final
> syllable as in "lee" or as in "lie"?
>
> is it the same for both BrE and AmE?
> my pronouncing dictionary (it's not an EPD though) gives the "lie" version
> but I've recently heard someone say it with "lee" (could it be AmE?)
>
my impression is that this would be universal in BrE. However, /li/
("lee") is more like the original Latin, which might influence some.
--Odysseus
Alan Jones
"Odysseus" <odysse...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:3B06670B...@yahoo.ca...
Both heard in BrE, and my impression is that younger people are more likely
to say "-lee" (or rather, as Odysseus says, /li/).
"-lie" is an example of the traditional Latin pronunciation in BrE, now
largely abandoned in favour of a "classical" or even pseudo-Italian version.
Alan Jones
psi
"Alan Jones" <a...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:khtN6.6066$674.6...@news1.cableinet.net...
By chance I happened to have been checking this very point in Fowler shortly
before I read the posting. He holds that with a few firmly rooted exceptions
(eg Adelphi) Latin plurals should be of the -lie variety, and that -lee
reveals ignorance of Latin.
I cannot see any reason to disagree, except that prior knowledge of Latin
cannot, these days, be assumed. (... and that adelphi is derived from the
Greek!)
psi
Richard R. Hershberger
"psi" <p...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:I7yN6.1323$26.17803@NewsReader...
>
> > > 9willows wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'd be grateful for clarifying this one:
> > > >
> > > > how is the word stimuli (the plural of stimulus) pronounced - is the
> > final
> > > > syllable as in "lee" or as in "lie"?
> By chance I happened to have been checking this very point in Fowler
shortly
> before I read the posting. He holds that with a few firmly rooted
exceptions
> (eg Adelphi) Latin plurals should be of the -lie variety, and that -lee
> reveals ignorance of Latin.
This is a rather bizarre assertion, since most schemes of Latin
pronunciation (including the Classical) make this -lee. I assume that the
British variant taught in the 19th century differed, so Fowler was
conservatively rejecting the reconstructed Classical pronunciations: "the
reformed pronunciation of Latin does not obtain in naturalized Latin words".
This last is a reasonable assertion, but to assert that the use of the
reformed pronunciation reveals ignorance of Latin is absurd. This is even
more true today: that tiny fraction of the populace which has studied Latin
quite likely was taught the Classical pronunciation. This likely is why
Burchfield abandoned this particular calumny in the third edition, though he
retains the conclusion.
>
> I cannot see any reason to disagree, except that prior knowledge of Latin
> cannot, these days, be assumed. (... and that adelphi is derived from the
> Greek
Note that the article is entitled "Latin plurals (or Latinized Greek)".
Presumably the reference is to the play by Terence.
Richard R. Hershberger
Eric Walker
> I'd be grateful for clarifying this one:
>
> how is the word stimuli (the plural of stimulus) pronounced - is the final
> syllable as in "lee" or as in "lie"?
[...]
From the responses posted so far, this word and its general type
appear to have become what someone--Wilson Follett, I think--called
"skunked terms": damned if you do and damned if you don't.
It seems that people, all of whom have a reasonable right to the
term "well-educated," can have sharp disagreements. I suppose
that if a word of that type can't handily be circumvented in
speech, one just says it however seems natural and damn the
torpedoes.
(But it occurs to me to wonder how "radii" could have two
pronunciations.)
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker, webmaster
Great Science-Fiction & Fantasy Works
http://owlcroft.com/sfandf
meirm...@erols.com
<wal...@owlcroft.com> posted:
>9willows wrote:
>
>> I'd be grateful for clarifying this one:
>>
>> how is the word stimuli (the plural of stimulus) pronounced - is the final
>> syllable as in "lee" or as in "lie"?
>[...]
>
>From the responses posted so far, this word and its general type
>appear to have become what someone--Wilson Follett, I think--called
>"skunked terms": damned if you do and damned if you don't.
>
>It seems that people, all of whom have a reasonable right to the
>term "well-educated," can have sharp disagreements. I suppose
>that if a word of that type can't handily be circumvented in
>speech, one just says it however seems natural and damn the
>torpedoes.
>
>(But it occurs to me to wonder how "radii" could have two
>pronunciations.)
Has anyone mentione the curious cross-relationship between the
pronuncations of the masculine and feminine
singular plural Eng Pron. CLatin Pron.
masculine alumnus alumni knee nigh
feminine alumna alumnae nigh knee
Both pronunciations different from Classical Latin to Engish, not so
surprising, but look at how the diagonals of the last two columns have
the same pronunciations respectively.
mei...@QQQerols.com If you email me, please let me know whether
remove the QQQ or not you are posting the same letter.
Robert Lieblich
>
> 9willows wrote:
>
> > I'd be grateful for clarifying this one:
> >
> > how is the word stimuli (the plural of stimulus) pronounced - is the final
> > syllable as in "lee" or as in "lie"?
> [...]
>
> From the responses posted so far, this word and its general type
> appear to have become what someone--Wilson Follett, I think
Bryan Garner -- *Modern American Usage* (Oxford 1997).[1]
> --called "skunked terms": damned if you do and damned if you don't.
[1] Follett wrote a different *Modern American Usage* (1966, I
believe).
Eric Walker
(This is not really important, but I'm trying out the new Google
posting tool.)
Follett's book is _Modern American Usage_; Garner's book, in what
I take to be overt homage, is _A Dictionary of Modern American
Usage_.
(Note: first thing I learn is that it does not seem to have any
provision for a standardized sig block; one does it by hand.)
meirm...@erols.com
meirm...@erols.com posted:
>
>Has anyone mentione the curious cross-relationship between the
>pronuncations of the masculine and feminine
>
> singular plural Eng Pron. CLatin Pron.
>masculine alumnus alumni knee nigh
>feminine alumna alumnae nigh knee
This would be a lot better if I did it right:
singular plural Eng Pron. CLatin Pron.
masculine alumnus alumni nigh knee
feminine alumna alumnae knee nigh
Richard R. Hershberger
"Eric Walker" <wal...@owlcroft.com> wrote in message
news:3B0B64B0...@owlcroft.com...
> 9willows wrote:
> From the responses posted so far, this word and its general type
> appear to have become what someone--Wilson Follett, I think--called
> "skunked terms": damned if you do and damned if you don't
Only with persons who will judge based on trivia rather than content: not a
group whose good opinion greatly concerns me.
Richard R. Hershberger