There are three to(s) in the english language
James Sowa
I have heard the above phrase but what is the correct word choice (to too or
two) and what is the correct plural version of that word???
- Jim
Bill McCray
wrote:
>I have heard the above phrase but what is the correct word choice (to too or
>two) and what is the correct plural version of that word???
There are three words in the English language pronounced "to". There
is only one "to" in the English language.
When you write about a word itself rather than the concept for which
the word stands, it's a good idea to put quotation marks around that
word to show that it's being used in some sense other than the normal
one. There are two "to"s in the preceding sentence. That is how I
think the plural should be formed.
Bill McCray
Lexington, KY
Bob Cunningham
The question has to do with pronunciation; therefore the answer must
be in phonetic notation:
There are three |tu|s in the English language.
(I use slashes for phonemic notation, vertical bars for broad
phonetic, and square brackets for narrow phonetic.)
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
>
> There are three |tu|s in the English language.
And one tutu.
Dennis
Virgil
<sW766.20638$7f3.1...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "James
Sowa" <xl...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I recall hearing the following riddle, which was old even then, about 60
years ago:
"What is an English sentence that can be spoken but not written?"
The answer given then was:
"There are three 'two's in the English language."
where "to", "two", and "too" are all incorrect in the written version.
The point is that there can be no correct way of writing it out in
standard English. No one of the 3 spelling can correctly represent
either of the others.
It is possible to do using phonetic symbols because it is a question of
words which sound the same but are spelt differently, but this is not
standard English.
mpl...@my-deja.com
"James Sowa" <xl...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I agree with much of what the others who answered this post have said.
The sentence in question can be spoken but not represented correctly in
ordinary written English. If it were quoting a person uttering that
sentence, a book on phonetics would have no problem representing it
phonetically (with [tu]) or phonemically (with /tu/), but for a writer
in, say, a newspaper, the best way to represent it is probably
There are three "to"s in the English language.
However, I would argue that
There are four "to"s in the English language.
since the word _two_ is also represented by the logogram or glyph "2."
Obviously, it is part of the written, not spoken English language, but
it is nevertheless part of the language.
Wait a minute...hold it!...There are _five,_ or perhaps _six_! After
all, _ii_ and _II_ are also pronounced /tu/!
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
meirm...@erols.com
<lk...@worldnet.att.net> posted:
>Ok
>
>
>I have heard the above phrase but what is the correct word choice (to too or
>two) and what is the correct plural version of that word???
>
>
Very funny.
>
>- Jim
>
mei...@QQQerols.com If you email me only, please say, so I won't
e-mail by removing QQQ wait forever for a post and then forget to
answer the email at all. If you post &
mail, please say, so I will wait for the post.
Michael Symonds
wrote:
>I have heard the above phrase but what is the correct word choice (to too or
>two) and what is the correct plural version of that word???
I've read the previous postings and have understand that this thread
treats a matter of pronounciation.
Please give me an example in which case is "to" pronounced as "too"
respectively "two".
Thanks in advance
- Michael Symonds
Please feel free to correct my English - many thanks in advance.
I'm a native German speaker and I want to better my English and to
exercise my English usage.
ankerstein
BillM...@mindspring.com wrote:
> There are three words in the English language pronounced "to".
> There is only one "to" in the English language.
I cannot agree. 1) There are slight, subtle, but real, differences
in the pronunciation of "to", "too" and "two". (Just like there is
a difference in pronunciation of "four" and "for".) 2) There are
several different "to" 'words'. Consider "to see"; "go to the
store", "gave it to me". The use of one spelling for words of
quite different meanings is common in English (and other languages).
But then we have to ask, 'what is a word?'. I tend to use the
definition, 'a correct spelling'.
GFH
--
To see what makes me tick, check out
www.ankerstein.org
perchprism
news:93ck29$jl2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <3a590ea8...@news.mindspring.com>,
> BillM...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > There are three words in the English language pronounced "to".
> > There is only one "to" in the English language.
>
> I cannot agree. 1) There are slight, subtle, but real, differences
No there aren't. I just read those three words aloud. They are identical in
pronunciation standing alone.
--
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
Spehro Pefhany
I suppose you could pronounce the "too" with a bit longer sound than the
"to" and slighly purse your lips for the "two", but if you are not
thinking about it, I think they are identical.
Best regards,
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Contributions invited->The AVR-gcc FAQ is at: http://www.BlueCollarLinux.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
mike_l...@my-deja.com
"Spehro Pefhany" <sp...@interlog.com> wrote:
> In alt.usage.english perchprism <perch...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > "ankerstein" <geo...@mail.rlc.net> wrote in message
> > news:93ck29$jl2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >> In article <3a590ea8...@news.mindspring.com>,
> >> BillM...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > There are three words in the English language pronounced "to".
> >> > There is only one "to" in the English language.
> >>
> >> I cannot agree. 1) There are slight, subtle, but real, differences
> >> in the pronunciation of "to", "too" and "two". ....
>
> > No there aren't. I just read those three words aloud. They are
identical in
> > pronunciation standing alone.
>
tired' show very clear differences in sound between 'to' and 'too', and
you'd think me strange if I pronounced them the same.
>
> I suppose you could pronounce the "too" with a bit longer sound than
the
> "to" and slighly purse your lips for the "two", but if you are not
> thinking about it, I think they are identical.
>
Hwyl, Mike.
mpl...@my-deja.com
"In this dictionary, the word word _TNT_ immediately precedes the word
_to._"
The dictionary in question, _The Oxford-Hachette French Dictionary:
French-English/English-French_ gives the pronunciation of _to_ as
follows:
[quote (replacing the IPA symbols with ASCII IPA)]]
*to* /t@, before a vowel tU, tu:, emphat. tu:/
[end quote]
So if a person is speaking slowly and deliberately, or if he is
speaking dramatically, the word _to_ is pronounced /tu:/ (or /tu/, in
any case, identically to _too_).
An example that is familiar to most Americans is a couple of lines from
the movie "The Wizard of Oz" when at one point the characters shout
"To Oz?"
"To Oz!"
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Michael Symonds
>"In this dictionary, the word word _TNT_ immediately precedes the word
>_to._"
> <.........>
>"To Oz?"
>
>"To Oz!"
Thank you for your excellent help. It will avoid me a lot of seeking
after the translation for the meaning of "Too Oz?" or "Two Oz?" (not
really in this, but in similar cases).
- Michael Symonds
Alec "Skitt" P.
"perchprism" <perch...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:w8l66.2275$Bp.9...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Say this aloud: "I want to go too". See? Different!
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://i.am/skitt/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Clark S. Cox III
> "perchprism" <perch...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:w8l66.2275$Bp.9...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > "ankerstein" <geo...@mail.rlc.net> wrote in message
> > news:93ck29$jl2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > In article <3a590ea8...@news.mindspring.com>,
> > > BillM...@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > There are three words in the English language pronounced "to".
> > > > There is only one "to" in the English language.
> > >
> > > I cannot agree. 1) There are slight, subtle, but real, differences
> > > in the pronunciation of "to", "too" and "two". ....
> >
> > No there aren't. I just read those three words aloud. They are identical
> in
> > pronunciation standing alone.
>
> Say this aloud: "I want to go too". See? Different!
Only if you say it very quickly, and slur it to "I want tah go too"
or "I wanna go too", otherwise, they are identical. I pronounce "I want
to go too" exactly like the first five words of "I want to go to
Indiana"
--
http://www.whereismyhead.com/clark/
Clark S. Cox, III
clar...@yahoo.com
perchprism
news:93cq7u$pcu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Cil66.110290$59.30...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>,
> "Spehro Pefhany" <sp...@interlog.com> wrote:
> > In alt.usage.english perchprism <perch...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > "ankerstein" <geo...@mail.rlc.net> wrote in message
> > > news:93ck29$jl2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > >> In article <3a590ea8...@news.mindspring.com>,
> > >> BillM...@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > There are three words in the English language pronounced "to".
> > >> > There is only one "to" in the English language.
> > >>
> > >> I cannot agree. 1) There are slight, subtle, but real, differences
> > >> in the pronunciation of "to", "too" and "two". ....
> >
> > > No there aren't. I just read those three words aloud. They are
> identical in
> > > pronunciation standing alone.
> >
> But words _don't_ usually stand alone. 'I want to go home' and 'I'm too
> tired' show very clear differences in sound between 'to' and 'too', and
> you'd think me strange if I pronounced them the same.
I defy anyone to display a better-than-one-in-three chance of correctly
transcribing the title of my poem "To Intents." Or is it "Two in Tents"? Or
maybe "Too Intense"?
Granted "to" is often said "t@," but that's not what the riddle is about,
nor is it, I think, what ankerstein meant.
Alec "Skitt" P.
"Clark S. Cox III" <clar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1emxcp8.106w2jq3uk1woN%clar...@yahoo.com...
If you said to me what sounds like, "I want to go to", I would wonder why
you stopped in mid-sentence and ask you, "To where?" I really don't believe
that you say it that way, but if you do, pardon me for saying that you talk
funny.
P&D Schultz
If you have two tutus and two ribbons, you can pin a ribbon to tutu
number one, and a ribbon to tutu two, too.
\\P. Schultz
Jerry Friedman
"To" is also pronounced like "too" at the end of a sentence. "Speak
when you're spoken to."
[snip example]
--
Jerry Friedman
jfri...@nnm.cc.nm.nos
Translate nos to us / Traduzca nos en us
and all the disclaimers
P&D Schultz
> But words _don't_ usually stand alone. 'I want to go home' and 'I'm too
> tired' show very clear differences in sound between 'to' and 'too', and
> you'd think me strange if I pronounced them the same. <...>
But you're talking about surface forms, which vary by context, by
occasion, and by speaker, and that's not relevant.
There are also nonexistent "distinctions" which an individual fancies he
makes, but which no human or instrument can detect, thereby establishing
that such distinctions exist only in that individual's imagination.
The underlying forms (the forms for which pronunciation is given in a
dictionary) determine a word's "official" pronunciation -- the
pronunciation which the speech community decides it has. There are three
|tu|s in English.
\\P. Schultz
Clark S. Cox III
> "Clark S. Cox III" <clar...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >
> > Only if you say it very quickly, and slur it to "I want tah go too"
> > or "I wanna go too", otherwise, they are identical. I pronounce "I want
> > to go too" exactly like the first five words of "I want to go to
> > Indiana"
>
> If you said to me what sounds like, "I want to go to", I would wonder why
> you stopped in mid-sentence and ask you, "To where?" I really don't believe
> that you say it that way,
Well, I can assure you that that is how I say it, and so does
everyone that I just quizzed (about 15 people). I have what I think is a
pretty generic midwestern American accent (though some of my more rural
friends think that I sound more northern).
> but if you do, pardon me for saying that you talk
> funny.
No offence taken.
Alec "Skitt" P.
"Clark S. Cox III" <clar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1emxedi.1vwrn2h1v0p5nnN%clar...@yahoo.com...
Aha, I see a variant spelling of "offense" -- is that a clue that you might
also be using the variant pronunciation of "to" with a long vowel? If you
say it as in "scoot", I can see that the words "to" and "too" sound the same
for you. Not for me, though, as I make a strong distinction between them.
Perhaps I tend to enunciate words too clearly -- who knows.
Clark S. Cox III
> "Clark S. Cox III" <clar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Alec "Skitt" P. <sk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > "Clark S. Cox III" <clar...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > >
> > > > Only if you say it very quickly, and slur it to "I want tah go
> > > > too" or "I wanna go too", otherwise, they are identical. I pronounce
> > > > "I want to go too" exactly like the first five words of "I want to
> > > > go to Indiana"
> > >
> > > If you said to me what sounds like, "I want to go to", I would wonder
> > > why you stopped in mid-sentence and ask you, "To where?" I really
> > > don't believe that you say it that way,
> >
> > Well, I can assure you that that is how I say it, and so does
> > everyone that I just quizzed (about 15 people). I have what I think is a
> > pretty generic midwestern American accent (though some of my more rural
> > friends think that I sound more northern).
> >
> > > but if you do, pardon me for saying that you talk funny.
> >
> > No offence taken.
>
> Aha, I see a variant spelling of "offense"
Nope, that was just a typo. :)
> -- is that a clue that you might also be using the variant pronunciation
> of "to" with a long vowel? If you say it as in "scoot",
For me, "to", "too" and "two" have the same vowel sound as "scoot",
and rhyme with "shoe" and "through". In your dialect, does "to" not have
the same sound as "scoot"?
meirm...@erols.com
<schu...@erols.com> posted:
Very very good.
A tutor who tooted a flute
tried to tutor two tutees to toot.
Said the two to the tutor
Is it easier to toot
or to tutor two tutees to toot?
>\\P. Schultz
JB
M-W gives three pronunciations of "to":
Pronunciation: t&, tu, 'tü
Where
\&\ as a and u in abut
\ü\ as oo in loot
\u\ as oo in foot
I find it difficult to say (or recall) the 'foot' pronunciation of
"to".
Apparently "to" (tuh, too) is similar in application to "the" (thuh,
thee) in that the pronunciation used depends on whether the following
word begins with a vowel sound or a consonant sound.
Normal speech would be: I want tuh go too Indiana.
--JB
Alec "Skitt" P.
"Clark S. Cox III" <clar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1emxhb8.187cbwq1adgcxsN%clar...@yahoo.com...
No, it has the same vowel as "put" and "foot".
mike_l...@my-deja.com
Jerry Friedman <jfried...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> "To" is also pronounced like "too" at the end of a sentence. "Speak
> when you're spoken to."
>
This is true only when 'to' is emphasised.
Hwyl, Mike.
mike_l...@my-deja.com
> mpl...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <3a5b9902...@news.btx.dtag.de>,
> > Michael...@t-online.de (Michael Symonds) wrote:
> > > On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 00:34:32 GMT, "James Sowa"
> <lk...@worldnet.att.net>
> > > wrote:
>
>
>
AEU and AUE? I could understand it if somebody got so pissed off with
AUE that they wanted to try something new; but all this cross-posting
suggests that may not be the case. All you have to do is stop using the
minority channel and post to AUE.
If there's a good reason not to do this, I'm sure somebody will post it
to AUE.
Hwyl, Mike
John Cartmell
At present I only take aeu. Is there a good reason for taking aue (as well
or instead)?
--
Fleur Designs - Manchester UK http://www.cartmell.demon.co.uk
~ designer craft products ~ information products ~ information services ~
~ see our unique designer board games at:
Altrincham Marketplace every Tuesday & Saturday ~
- - - and in Acorn User magazine - November 2000
Bob Cunningham
<sk...@earthlink.net> said:
>
>"Clark S. Cox III" <clar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1emxhb8.187cbwq1adgcxsN%clar...@yahoo.com...
[ ... ]
>> For me, "to", "too" and "two" have the same vowel sound as "scoot",
>> and rhyme with "shoe" and "through". In your dialect, does "to" not have
>> the same sound as "scoot"?
>No, it has the same vowel as "put" and "foot".
I found that statement rather startling. I wouldn't have suspected
that anyone would pronounce "to" in isolation with the vowel of
"foot". I would pronounce it only with the vowel of "toot". But now
I find that both British and American dictionaries report the "foot"
pronunciation
_The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_ has "to" with the vowel of
"foot", the vowel of "toot", and the schwa, in that order.
_Merriam-Webster's Collegiate@ Dictionary_ has the preposition "to"
with the schwa, the vowel of "foot", and the vowel of "toot", again in
that order.
(But it has the adverb "to" with only the vowel of "toot".)
Since both the British and the American dictionaries have the "foot"
pronunciation before the "toot" pronunciation, it seems that the
"foot" pronunciation is more commonly heard on both sides of the
Atlantic. Many people may feel surprise that I would find that
surprising.
By the way, I have tried and failed to think of a word that Neil
Coffey has used to refer to the pronunciation of a word in isolation.
It's something like the "lexical" pronunciation, but I don't think
that's it. Can anyone help me remember?
Jerry Friedman
mike_l...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <93ddpf$c85$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Jerry Friedman <jfried...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > "To" is also pronounced like "too" at the end of a sentence. "Speak
> > when you're spoken to."
> >
> This is true only when 'to' is emphasised.
Maybe it depends on what we mean by "pronounced like". In both of the
sentences "I want someone to talk to," and "I want someone to talk,
too," I'd transcribe the last word as /tu/, not /t@/ like the first
"to" in each. However, you can tell the difference, so the two words
aren't pronounced identically. "Too" is louder and held longer and has
a pause before it. But on the *other* hand, part or all of that
difference is indicated by the comma in front of it.
I can't come up with a sentence in which I couldn't tell whether the
speaker is saying "too" or "to".
--
Jerry Friedman
jfri...@nnm.cc.nm.nos
Translate nos to us / Traduzca nos en us
and all the disclaimers
Dirk Goldgar
news:qr7m5tojv1npqif4d...@4ax.com...
No, the "foot" pronunciation seems strange to me.
--
Dirk Goldgar
(remove NOSPAM from reply address)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Dirk Goldgar
news:c3lk5t4c9vugmpe3t...@4ax.com...
> In alt.english.usage on Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:07:11 -0500 P&D Schultz
> <schu...@erols.com> posted:
>
> >Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> >>
> >> Bob Cunningham wrote:
> >> >
> >> > There are three |tu|s in the English language.
> >>
> >> And one tutu.
> >
> >If you have two tutus and two ribbons, you can pin a ribbon to tutu
> >number one, and a ribbon to tutu two, too.
> >
> Very very good.
>
> A tutor who tooted a flute
> tried to tutor two tutees to toot.
> Said the two to the tutor
> Is it easier to toot
> or to tutor two tutees to toot?
I remember that as "... two tooters ...".
Polar
Some of us no longer post or x-post to A.U.E. because there is a
clear distinction betweent the two cultures.
With my newsreader, Agent, it's perfectly easy. A window pops up
asking if one wants to post to all NGs or just the current one.
--
Polar
Polar
<jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <93f7tq$nf4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <mike_l...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> In article <93ddpf$c85$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Jerry Friedman
>> <jfried...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> > In article <93csj3$rok$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, mpl...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> > > In article <3a5b9902...@news.btx.dtag.de>,
>> > > Michael...@t-online.de (Michael Symonds) wrote:
>> > > > On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 00:34:32 GMT, "James Sowa"
>> > <lk...@worldnet.att.net>
>> > > > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ... and while I'm at it, couldn't we get rid of the distinction between
>> AEU and AUE? I could understand it if somebody got so pissed off with
>> AUE that they wanted to try something new; but all this cross-posting
>> suggests that may not be the case. All you have to do is stop using the
>> minority channel and post to AUE.
>
>> If there's a good reason not to do this, I'm sure somebody will post it
>> to AUE.
>At present I only take aeu. Is there a good reason for taking aue (as well
>or instead)?
If you have a lot of time to spare, reading longwinded personal
attacks, endlessly boring threads, psychos venting their spleen,
and the like, by all means subscribe to A.U.E. There are (or were
when I last visited, long ago) some authentic scholarly questions and
comments, but then you can get those on A.E.U. as well, without the
disagreeale garbazhe.
Another group that might be of interest, although considerably
more academic, is <sci.lang>.
--
Polar
Matti Lamprhey
>
> >> For me, "to", "too" and "two" have the same vowel sound as "scoot",
> >> and rhyme with "shoe" and "through". In your dialect, does "to" not
> >> have the same sound as "scoot"?
>
> >No, it has the same vowel as "put" and "foot".
>
> I found that statement rather startling. I wouldn't have suspected
> that anyone would pronounce "to" in isolation with the vowel of
> "foot". I would pronounce it only with the vowel of "toot". But now
> I find that both British and American dictionaries report the "foot"
Well I (British) would pronounce "too" and "two" with the longer vowel, as
in "toot". But "to" would normally get the shorter version similar to
"foot".
For example, "to do" shows the short and long vowels in action.
Matti
Alec "Skitt" P.
"Matti Lamprhey" <ma...@totally-official.com> wrote in message
news:_bJ66.16127$I5.302942@stones...
You speak well. Understandably even. Bravo!
meirm...@erols.com
mike_l...@my-deja.com posted:
>In article <Cil66.110290$59.30...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>,
> "Spehro Pefhany" <sp...@interlog.com> wrote:
>> In alt.usage.english perchprism <perch...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > "ankerstein" <geo...@mail.rlc.net> wrote in message
>> > news:93ck29$jl2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> >> In article <3a590ea8...@news.mindspring.com>,
>> >> BillM...@mindspring.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > There are three words in the English language pronounced "to".
>> >> > There is only one "to" in the English language.
>> >>
>> >> I cannot agree. 1) There are slight, subtle, but real, differences
>> >> in the pronunciation of "to", "too" and "two". ....
>>
>> > No there aren't. I just read those three words aloud. They are
>identical in
>> > pronunciation standing alone.
>>
>But words _don't_ usually stand alone. 'I want to go home' and 'I'm too
>tired' show very clear differences in sound between 'to' and 'too', and
>you'd think me strange if I pronounced them the same.
>>
If you say the first sentence slowly and deliberately
I...want...to...go...home, its 'to' sounds like the 'too' in the other
one.
Alan Jones
news:on8n5to2cbp6ve2qn...@4ax.com...
> >tired' show very clear differences in sound between 'to' and 'too', and
> >you'd think me strange if I pronounced them the same.
> >
> If you say the first sentence slowly and deliberately
> I...want...to...go...home, its 'to' sounds like the 'too' in the other
> one.
Not for me (UK). However deliberately I speak, the first 'to' has a shorter
version of the "foot" vowel and the second is as in "toot". At normal speed
the first one might be nearer a schwa.
I used this distinction when teaching spelling: "If you say 'tuh', write
'to'; if you say 'tooo', write 'too' unless it's the number 'two' " and that
seemed to work well for generations of pupils in SE England. A Pondian
difference?
Alan Jones
John Holmes
"Bob Cunningham" <spa...@alt-usage-english.org> wrote in message
news:qr7m5tojv1npqif4d...@4ax.com...
>
> Coffey has used to refer to the pronunciation of a word in isolation.
> It's something like the "lexical" pronunciation, but I don't think
> that's it. Can anyone help me remember?
>
--
Regards,
John.
Bob Cunningham
Yes! Thank you.
Bob Cunningham
[...]
>Wait a minute...hold it!...There are _five,_ or perhaps _six_! After
>all, _ii_ and _II_ are also pronounced /tu/!
In case no one has already mentioned it, in addition to there being
numerous |tu|s in English, "to" itself represents more than one word.
A word with that spelling can be a preposition, an adverb, or a
conjunction, making three. A fourth "to" is an adjective that is
"long obsolete except dialectal" and has the meaning "One, esp. the
one as opp. to the other", whatever that means (_NSOED_). All four of
these "to"s are pronounced |tu:|.
There are also two "two"s, an adjective and a noun.
mpl...@my-deja.com
From a post I made to alt.folklore.urban:
[quote]
That the first pronunciation given is the more common is only true in
the Merriam-Webster dictionaries when the word _also_ precedes the less
common variant pronunciation. In _Webster's New Collegiate
Dictionary_ Š 1981 this is obvious, because many variant pronunciations
are indicated by putting parentheses around parts of the pronunciation.
For example, in the pronunciation for _wastepaper_ there is a
parenthesis around the t sound, indicating that there are two
pronunciations, one with the t sounded and the other without.
Obviously, no attempt is being made in that case to identify which
pronunciation is more common.
[end quote]
I believe the same practice is followed in the _American Heritage
Dictionary,_ and I would expect it to be followed in _The New Shorter
Oxford English Dictionary,_ but you will have to check to verify that.
> By the way, I have tried and failed to think of a word that Neil
> Coffey has used to refer to the pronunciation of a word in isolation.
> It's something like the "lexical" pronunciation, but I don't think
> that's it. Can anyone help me remember?
>
>
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Roberta Davies
> >> > There are three words in the English language pronounced "to".
> >> > There is only one "to" in the English language.
> >>
> >> I cannot agree. 1) There are slight, subtle, but real, differences
> >> in the pronunciation of "to", "too" and "two". ....
>
> > No there aren't. I just read those three words aloud. They are identical in
> > pronunciation standing alone.
>
> I suppose you could pronounce the "too" with a bit longer sound than the
> "to" and slighly purse your lips for the "two", but if you are not
> thinking about it, I think they are identical.
I agree that they're identical. However, in our house we often
(facetiously) pronounce "two" with its W-sound loud and clear:
"t'wo". Beginning sounds as in "twee", end rhymes with "go".
Could be useful when dictating, I suppose. I make this
pronunciation a gift to anyone silly enough to use it.
Robbie
Roberta Davies
>
> Well I (British) would pronounce "too" and "two" with the longer vowel, as
> in "toot". But "to" would normally get the shorter version similar to
> "foot".
>
> For example, "to do" shows the short and long vowels in action.
But is the "to" in "to do" really pronounced with a vowel as in
"foot", or is it simply schwa'd out to nothingness because of
lack of emphasis? My money is on the latter.
We have to take care here when saying "oo as in boot" or "oo as
in book", since northerners (UK) pronounce "book" with the same
long vowel as in "boot". I don't think they use the short
version of the vowel at all.
Robbie
Roberta Davies
>
> I can't come up with a sentence in which I couldn't tell whether the
> speaker is saying "too" or "to".
Neither can I, but I think this is because of their great
difference in meaning. There is no normal English sentence in
which one of these words can take the place of the other. The
only possibility would be in the context of a spelling quiz:
Spell the word "to". Which more or less takes us back to where
we started.
Robbie