Can adverbs be plural? (backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.)?
Mel Knight
to find the following plural adverbs all the time in written US English.
- backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.
Can someone give me an insight on whether adverbs can be plural?
Claude Weil
"Mel Knight" a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion :
ikvb0g$a7q$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
My mom always told me that adverbs can't possibly be plural; but I seem
to find the following plural adverbs all the time in written US English.
- backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.
These are no plurals.
CW
Martin Ambuhl
I suppose it is barely possible that this is a serious question instead
of a joke. Not all words that end in "-s" are plurals.
Eric Walker
Yes: No.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Ian Dalziel
Was that the plural of Yea?
--
Ian D
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
As other people have said: "backwards" is not a plural form of
"backward". It is an alternative form of the word.
Both versions "backward" and "backwards", and "forward" and "forwards",
are used as adverbs. The "-s" version seems to be more common in British
English than in American English.
The adverbs "backwards" and "forwards" are the adjectives "backward" and
"forward" with the adverbial genitive "s" appended.
What follows is historical information mainly for Native English
Speakers:
There used to be a verb "to backward". It is now obsolete except perhaps
in dialect.
From the OED:
backward, v.
Obs. exc. dial. Also dial.
1. To put or keep back, delay, retard.
1594...
a1660 H. Hammond Serm. (1664) xv. 249 One that doth so clog and
trash, so disadvantage and backward us.
†2. To send back, return. Obs.
1789 E. Sheridan Jrnl. 28 Feb. (1960) 151 The enclosures which
to use your own phrase I backward to you.
The verb "forward" is still used in some of its senses.
forward, v.
1. trans. To help or push forward; to advance, assist, hasten,
promote, urge on. Also, †to put forward, set on foot (obs. rare).
3.a. To send forward, send to an ulterior destination (a thing,
rarely a person). In commercial language often loosely, to dispatch,
send by some regular mode of conveyance.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
Mel Knight
> I suppose it is barely possible that this is a serious question instead
> of a joke. Not all words that end in "-s" are plurals.
I'm sorry if it sounded like a joke.
I'm trying to figure out when "afterwards" and "anyways" and words like
that are appropriate (as compared to "afterward" and "anyway").
The reason I ask is that I NEVER use the "s" on the end; but many other
people do use them. Especially my own kids.
When I told my kids to use the "singular" form, they said that all the
other kids use "anyways" (instead of anyway), for example.
I'm simply trying to find out the reason (that I can explain to them
succinctly) that they should use "anyway" "forward" "backward"
"afterward", etc. in a sentence rather than the horrid sounding (plural?)
alternative.
So, maybe I phrased the question wrongly.
May I rephrase?
QUESTION: What is the RULE of grammar that explains why to use "anyway"
versus "anyways", by way of one example?
Pat Durkin
"Mel Knight" <Mel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:il0782$igh$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Are you raising your children in the same kind of
environment--region, economic or educational level--as you were raised
in?
In my area, I hear both used, and I can't think but that a few of
those words were used without the "s" in my upbringing. I do feel
ambivalent about which I now use, as if there has been a climate
change in everyday usage.
mm
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>The verb "forward" is still used in some of its senses.
>
> forward, v.
>
> 1. trans. To help or push forward; to advance, assist, hasten,
> promote, urge on. Also, †to put forward, set on foot (obs. rare).
>
> 3.a. To send forward, send to an ulterior destination (a thing,
> rarely a person). In commercial language often loosely, to dispatch,
> send by some regular mode of conveyance.
I have a button on my email program called Forward. I was afraid to
press it; I thought it would make me brazen. Maybe I'll read the Help
file now.
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I have lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 28 years
John Lawler
There's a final -s that is optional on many adverbs.
Language Log had a post on the subject last month:
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2983
And I posted on the subject of "beside(s)" and
"toward(s)" long ago in a.u.e:
http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/besides.html
As you can see, the -s is occasionally useful for
making a distinction, but mostly it's a matter of
taste, and tastes vary. Either one is OK and you
don't have to worry about "correct".
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue
"Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of,
but do it in private and wash your hands afterwards."
-- Robert A. Heinlein
mm
wrote:
>My mom always told me that adverbs can't possibly be plural; but I seem
>to find the following plural adverbs all the time in written US English.
>- backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.
What about these is plural?
>
>Can someone give me an insight on whether adverbs can be plural?
--
mm
wrote:
>On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 06:53:04 +0000 (UTC), Mel Knight <Mel...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>My mom always told me that adverbs can't possibly be plural; but I seem
>>to find the following plural adverbs all the time in written US English.
>>- backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.
>
>What about these is plural?
After reading your follow-up, I didnd't really feel the need to post
this, but the delete button of one program is in the same place as the
send now button of another.
Don Phillipson
news:il0782$igh$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> I'm trying to figure out when "afterwards" and "anyways" and words like
> that are appropriate (as compared to "afterward" and "anyway").
This clarifies your problem, suggesting the solution:
1. Afterwards and afterward are both recognized English
words; the latter seems however to be passing out of use.)
2. Anyways and anyway are not recognized English words.
Both are vernacular mistakes for "any way" (two words.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
mm
It's hard to keep track of which two-word phrases are only one word.
I can't remember examples now, but a lot start with some or any.
And a lot end in time or how.
I think run-on-word urls are making the problem worse for me.
Don Phillipson
news:77o8n6p47nr2e294j...@4ax.com...
> It's hard to keep track of which two-word phrases are only one word.
>
> I can't remember examples now, but a lot start with some or any.
>
> And a lot end in time or how.
This is not difficult, with access to a reliable dictionary. I'd say
"reliable" might be characterised by showing:
1. Somehow, somewhere, anyhow, anywhere, all as accepted single words
2. Sometime and anytime as a vulgar errors (for some time etc.)
John Varela
That's a sometime thing.
--
John Varela
Odysseus
"Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
<snip>
> 2. Anyways and anyway are not recognized English words.
Not by you, perhaps, but Onelook finds "anyway" in 28 general
dictionaries:
<http://www.onelook.com/?w=anyway&ls=a>
I didn't follow all the links, but in none of those that I did was there
any indication of either rarity or deprecation. "Anyways" gets only 18
hits there, and for this form my random sampling turned up such remarks
as "nonstandard", "dialect", and "US informal".
> Both are vernacular mistakes for "any way" (two words.)
I disagree. In my experience -- and according to my cursory survey --
the one-word forms are usually quite different in meaning from "any
way", although a couple of the dictionaries I looked at included
definitions with this sense; Wiktionary says it's obsolete, XVI-XIX c.
"Anyway" is most often used as a sentence adverb, similar in meaning to
"however", "at least", "regardless", or "nevertheless". "Any way" could
not be substituted for "anyway" in e.g. "I was already out of breath,
but I ran up the stairs anyway," or "What were we talking about, anyway?"
--
Odysseus
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> In article <il1fdo$rb2$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> "Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> 2. Anyways and anyway are not recognized English words.
>
> Not by you, perhaps, but Onelook finds "anyway" in 28 general
> dictionaries:
>
> <http://www.onelook.com/?w=anyway&ls=a>
Yes, I was amazed to see that assertion and was about to check it when
I saw that you had already done so.
> --
athel
Bill McCray
Anyway, I can't think of any way that "anyway" and "any way" could mean the
same thing.
Bill in Kentucky
Pat Durkin
"Bill McCray" <billm...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:s476906vpzvn.13p4cmwvhoj30$.dlg@40tude.net...
I suppose I needn't bring up "anymore", which I would certainly be
surprised to find in a standard (or respectable) dictionary.
Bill McCray
Why?
Bill in Kentucky
dama...@frontiernet.net
dama...@frontiernet.net
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
wrote:
>Anyways is not a word.
Anyway, "backwards", "afterwards" and "forwards" are not plurals. The
"s" is what the Oxford English Dictionary describes as "adverbial
genitive -s" and says "see -wards suffix". (I began that sentence with
"Anyway" used as a conjunction not as an adverb. [1])
Today we almost always use "always" (adverb), with an s, rather than the
original form "alway", without an s.
OED:
-wards, suffix
1. In English the history of -wards as an advb. suffix is identical
with that of -ward (see -ward suffix 3, 4); beside every adv. in
-ward there has always existed (at least potentially) a parallel
formation in -wards, and vice versa. The two forms are so nearly
synonymous (the general sense of the advs. being ‘in the direction
indicated by the first element of the compound’) that the choice
between them is mostly determined by some notion of euphony in the
particular context; some persons, apparently, have a fixed
preference for the one or the other form. Sometimes, however, the
difference in the form of the suffix corresponds to a difference in
the shade of meaning conveyed, though it would not be possible to
give any general rule that would be universally accepted. Where the
meaning to be expressed includes the notion of manner as well as
direction of movement, -wards is required, as in ‘to walk
backwards’, ‘to write backwards’. In other instances the distinction
seems to be that -wards is used when the adv. is meant to express a
definite direction in contrast with other directions: thus we say
‘it is moving forwards if it is moving at all’, but ‘to come
forward’, not ‘forwards’ (see further the note on forward adv.); so
‘to travel eastward’ expresses generally the notion of travelling in
the direction of an eastern goal, ‘to travel eastwards’ implies that
the direction is thought of as contrasted with other possible
directions. Hence -wards seems to have an air of precision which has
caused it to be avoided in poetical use.
There appears to be no appreciable difference in meaning between the
prepositions toward adj. and adv. and towards prep. and adv.; the
latter is now, at least in British use, more common colloquially.
The now obsolete prepositions fromward n. and fromwards adv. and
prep. at fromward adj., adv., and prep. Derivatives appear to have
been perfectly synonymous.
[1] The OED gives "anyways" as an adverb as well as a conjunction. The
example quotations come from non-colloquial sources.
anyways, adv. and conj.
Etymology: any adj. and pron. + ways, adverbial genitive, as in
always adv.
A. adv.
In any way, in any respect, at all.
c1560 Bk. Common Prayer, All those who are any ways
afflicted..in mind, body, or estate.
a1628 J. Preston Mount Ebal (1638) 10 As the Rudder of a ship,
which turnes it any wayes.
1673 J. Ray Observ. Journey Low-countries Ded., If either
Catalogue or Observations prove any ways useful.
1794 R. Southey Wat Tyler iii. i, Who may have been anyways
concerned in the late insurrections.
1832 T. De Quincey Cæsars in Blackwood's Edinb. Mag. Dec. 952/2
Nor was such an interference..any ways injurious.
Don Phillipson
news:c63ffcaf-c222-49e0...@googlegroups.com...
> Can adverbs be plural? (backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.)?
In English, adverbs are neither singular nor plural. (Nor are adjectives,
prepositions and perhaps other parts of speech, e.g. "perhaps.")
Daniel James
What is a word?
The New Shorter Oxford says that "anyways" is now dialect, was common
in Middle English, and has the same meaning as "anyway". Note that the
fact that it ends with a letter 's' does not make it a plural.
I'd say that makes it a word ... though possibly not a word one would
normally expect to hear in contemporary standard English.
--
Cheers,
Daniel.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <dama...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
> news:c63ffcaf-c222-49e0...@googlegroups.com...
>
>> Can adverbs be plural? (backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.)?
>
> In English, adverbs are neither singular nor plural. (Nor are adjectives,
a plural verb. "Blessed are the pure in heart ..."
> prepositions and perhaps other parts of speech, e.g. "perhaps.")
--
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
<athe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On 2014-06-10 13:42:33 +0200, "Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> said:
>
>> <dama...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
>> news:c63ffcaf-c222-49e0...@googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Can adverbs be plural? (backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.)?
>>
>> In English, adverbs are neither singular nor plural. (Nor are adjectives,
>
>Arguable. They're invariant, certainly, but when appropriate they take
>a plural verb. "Blessed are the pure in heart ..."
>
>> prepositions and perhaps other parts of speech, e.g. "perhaps.")
--
Jack Campin
> in Middle English, and has the same meaning as "anyway". Note that
> the fact that it ends with a letter 's' does not make it a plural.
> I'd say that makes it a word ... though possibly not a word one
> would normally expect to hear in contemporary standard English.
from Yorkshire northwards. And perhaps other parts, though I don't
get to the south of England much.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 18:47:34 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <athe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-06-10 13:42:33 +0200, "Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> said:
>>
>>> <dama...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
>>> news:c63ffcaf-c222-49e0...@googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> Can adverbs be plural? (backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways, etc.)?
>>>
>>> In English, adverbs are neither singular nor plural. (Nor are adjectives,
>>
>> Arguable. They're invariant, certainly, but when appropriate they take
>> a plural verb. "Blessed are the pure in heart ..."
>>
> Isn't that an adjective being used mass-nounally?
English. Almost anything can be almost anything you want depending on
where you put it.
>>> prepositions and perhaps other parts of speech, e.g. "perhaps.")
--
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
> >> Anyways is not a word.
> > The New Shorter Oxford says that "anyways" is now dialect, was common
> > in Middle English, and has the same meaning as "anyway". Note that
> > the fact that it ends with a letter 's' does not make it a plural.
> > I'd say that makes it a word ... though possibly not a word one
> > would normally expect to hear in contemporary standard English.
>
> It's standard in much of Britain; it would pass without comment
> from Yorkshire northwards. And perhaps other parts, though I don't
> get to the south of England much.
Words website. There was an article on this just this week.
Basically, the form without the s is more American and with the s more
British---as an adverb: He pushed his car forward(s). Without the s, in
Britain, it is used as an adjective: a backward child.
John Varela
wrote:
> In article <c63ffcaf-c222-49e0...@googlegroups.com>,
>
> >Can adverbs be plural? (backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways,
> >etc.)?
>
>
> It also reminds me of another stupidity "we'll be back shortly"
>
> "Soon" is the word he's looking for. There surely is no such word as
> "shortly"
Any dictionary will tell you differently.
--
John Varela
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
>In article <c63ffcaf-c222-49e0...@googlegroups.com>,
><dama...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> >Can adverbs be plural? (backwards, afterwards, forwards, anyways,
>>etc.)?
>
>In my opinion, no.
>
describes the "s" at the end as an "adverbial genitive -s".
I understand that the versions without and s are usual in AmE. In BrE
the version with an s are normal.
>It also reminds me of another stupidity ‹ "we'll be back shortly"
>
>"Soon" is the word he's looking for. There surely is no such word as
>"shortly"
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/shortly
shortly
adverb
1 In a short time; soon:
"the new database will shortly be available for consultation"
"the flight was hijacked shortly after takeoff"
Ian Jackson
Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes
used to mean "at present", "at this moment", "at this time", "now" etc,
or at a time in the very near future, ie "soon" or "shortly".
--
Ian