Word for Ignorant Anger?
Steven Xu
to come to you group of people for guidance. I've been racking my brain
to look for an English word that refers to a character trait describing
a person who is angry due to his ignorance.
Imagine being a child who is angry because his parents leave him at a
babysitter for work everyday.
Peter Duncanson
>Upon recommendation of Michael Mendelsohn (thank you), I have decided
>to come to you group of people for guidance. I've been racking my brain
>to look for an English word that refers to a character trait describing
>a person who is angry due to his ignorance.
>
I think we need to understand what you mean by "ignorance".
The normal English meaning of "ignorance" is "the state of being ignorant".
"Ignorant" means "lacking knowledge".
>Imagine being a child who is angry because his parents leave him at a
>babysitter for work everyday.
This example suggests that you are using "ignorance" to mean "being
ignored". Is that what you mean?
If that is what you mean, then we are looking for a word that means
something like "anger resulting from a sense of rejection or abandonment".
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u)
Bill Bonde
Peter Duncanson wrote:
>
> On 27 Dec 2004 12:21:38 -0800, "Steven Xu" <cair...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Upon recommendation of Michael Mendelsohn (thank you), I have decided
> >to come to you group of people for guidance. I've been racking my brain
> >to look for an English word that refers to a character trait describing
> >a person who is angry due to his ignorance.
> >
> I think we need to understand what you mean by "ignorance".
> The normal English meaning of "ignorance" is "the state of being ignorant".
> "Ignorant" means "lacking knowledge".
>
> >Imagine being a child who is angry because his parents leave him at a
> >babysitter for work everyday.
>
> This example suggests that you are using "ignorance" to mean "being
> ignored". Is that what you mean?
>
No, he means that the child doesn't understand the valid reasons why he
has to go to daycare each day. The young child is ignorant of the
parent's need to go to work, school, whatever, so he gets angry about it
thinking erroneously that it some slight against him. I don't see why
you can't call this 'ignorant anger'.
--
Even though the world knows that these areas are susceptible to this
sort of thing, there apparently are no warning systems in place to
attempt to mitigate a disaster like this even for those areas literally
a 1000 km away, a distance that puts the inundation, I think, a couple
of hours from the original seismic event. It is simply unconscionable
that I could find out here in America about this threat before people
who are actually at grave risk could.
Peter Duncanson
>
>
>Peter Duncanson wrote:
>>
>> On 27 Dec 2004 12:21:38 -0800, "Steven Xu" <cair...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Upon recommendation of Michael Mendelsohn (thank you), I have decided
>> >to come to you group of people for guidance. I've been racking my brain
>> >to look for an English word that refers to a character trait describing
>> >a person who is angry due to his ignorance.
>> >
>> I think we need to understand what you mean by "ignorance".
>> The normal English meaning of "ignorance" is "the state of being ignorant".
>> "Ignorant" means "lacking knowledge".
>>
>> >Imagine being a child who is angry because his parents leave him at a
>> >babysitter for work everyday.
>>
>> This example suggests that you are using "ignorance" to mean "being
>> ignored". Is that what you mean?
>>
>No, he means that the child doesn't understand the valid reasons why he
>has to go to daycare each day. The young child is ignorant of the
>parent's need to go to work, school, whatever, so he gets angry about it
>thinking erroneously that it some slight against him. I don't see why
>you can't call this 'ignorant anger'.
Fair enough.
Do you think that "uncomprehending anger" would be more idiomatic the
"ignorant anger"?
I can't think of a single word that conveys that sense. "Frustration" goes
part of the way - but not far enough.
Steven Xu
child, logically sound) premises. I am going to continue traversing
through linguists until I can get a word.
Michael Mendelsohn
> Thank you for the help. I meant anger with no valid (although to the
> child, logically sound) premises.
"Unjustified indignation"?
Cheers
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls
Don Phillipson
news:1104178897.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
1. Ignorance an unsual idea to attribute to an infant.
2. An infant's anxiety when its parents are absent
is not a character trait: it is normal behavior in most
infants and does not continue later in childhood. It
seems not accurately named as "anger."
Do not be surprised if any language lacks a single
word for such a complex behavior as you describe,
however common.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Tor
though that doesn't necessarily imply ignorance. I often think of
resentment as being unjustified, which word below jogged my mind.
Good luck,
Tor
"Michael Mendelsohn" <inv...@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote in message
news:41D0BAB8...@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de...
Steven Xu
irrational thought. I still fail to think up a word.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>I guess we can say that it is not so much ignorance as it is simply
>irrational thought. I still fail to think up a word.
What's wrong with "irrational"? Irrational is: not rational: as a
(1) : not endowed with reason or understanding (2) : lacking usual or
normal mental clarity or coherence b : not governed by or according to
reason
So, it seems that the anger you describe is "irrational anger'.
Richard Yates
> a person who is angry due to his ignorance.
Angry. (All anger is due to some measure of ignorance).
Richard Yates
Robin Bignall
One often-used word in Britain for this kind of anger is 'tantrum'.
COD10:
tantrum
· n. an uncontrolled outburst of anger and frustration, typically in a
young child.
– ORIGIN C18: of unknown origin.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England
Django Cat
wrote:
>Thank you for the help. I meant anger with no valid (although to the
>child, logically sound) premises. I am going to continue traversing
>through linguists until I can get a word.
Well, sorry, but you need to accept that such a single word may well
not exist. Why don't you try making one up and see if you can make it
current?
DC
Tony Cooper
A tantrum isn't always the result of irrational anger. It can be
triggered by a legitimate reason to be angry. The tantrum is just an
overreaction to whatever caused the anger.
Peter Duncanson
wrote:
>On 27 Dec 2004 18:09:09 -0800, "Steven Xu" <cair...@hotmail.com>
Is "irrational" the right word?
The question was about "a child who is angry because his parents leave him
at a babysitter for work everyday".
I wouldn't describe a child's lack of understanding of his parent's need to
got to work as being "irrational". The child is thinking rationally within
the limits of his knowledge and understanding.
Looking at your quoted definition of irrational:
"(1) : not endowed with reason or understanding (2) : lacking usual or
normal mental clarity or coherence b : not governed by or according to
reason".
The angry child may well be endowed with normal (or greater) levels of
reason or understanding for his age, and may not lack normal mental clarity
or coherence.
In an earlier post I used the word "uncomprehending". I suggest that
incomprehension better describes the child's situation than irrationality.
Tony Cooper
You are dealing with just the example used, and I was referring to the
entire concept of anger without a legitimate reason for anger. That
part was in the original post, but has been snipped out.
I didn't think the example was a good example of anger not based on a
reason, either.
Ian Noble
It's the first possibility that occurred to me. "Vexation" and "vexed
frustration" were two others.
Cheers - Ian
Robin Bignall
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:00:30 +0000, Robin Bignall
><docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:26:10 GMT, Tony Cooper
>><tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 27 Dec 2004 18:09:09 -0800, "Steven Xu" <cair...@hotmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I guess we can say that it is not so much ignorance as it is simply
>>>>irrational thought. I still fail to think up a word.
>>>
>>>What's wrong with "irrational"? Irrational is: not rational: as a
>>>(1) : not endowed with reason or understanding (2) : lacking usual or
>>>normal mental clarity or coherence b : not governed by or according to
>>>reason
>>>
>>>So, it seems that the anger you describe is "irrational anger'.
>>>
>>One often-used word in Britain for this kind of anger is 'tantrum'.
>>COD10:
>>
>>tantrum
>>· n. an uncontrolled outburst of anger and frustration, typically in a
>>young child.
>>– ORIGIN C18: of unknown origin.
>
>A tantrum isn't always the result of irrational anger. It can be
>triggered by a legitimate reason to be angry. The tantrum is just an
>overreaction to whatever caused the anger.
>
The OP was specifically referring to children, and said "I meant anger
with no valid (although to the child, logically sound) premises".
Stopping a child playing with a box of matches could cause a tantrum,
for the child would be too young to know the dangers and just feel
frustrated at not having its own way. I don't think that what the OP
had in mind can be described as 'irrational'. There's nothing
irrational about a toddler experimenting by putting things into its
mouth, say, and getting angry when stopped. The ignorance comes in
because the child has to learn what is safe and what isn't.
Harvey Van Sickle
I'm fairly certin the OP used the child's reaction merely as an
illustration -- it's not that he meant to limit it to the reactions of
children.
I *think* a similar situation would be an adult who gets angry because
he's been stopped from travelling down a road, when there's a perfectly
valid reason why he's been stopped from travelling.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)
Robin Bignall
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
No it wasn't. The OP's question was "I've been racking my brain
to look for an English word that refers to a character trait
describing a person who is angry due to his ignorance."
>I didn't think the example was a good example of anger not based on a
>reason, either.
His example was not one of 'anger not based on reason', but one of the
anger of a child through not understanding the circumstances in which
it finds itself. The particular one of a child feeling that it is
being ignored by its parents by being farmed out to babysitters,
combines 'ignore' and 'ignorance', and confuses the picture.
If we choose 'ignorance' in its normal meaning of 'lack of knowledge'
then is it irrational if young children get angry when they are
stopped doing something they see as legitimate because they have not
yet been taught otherwise?
Extending this concept into the adult world is not easy. What does
'angry due to ignorance' actually mean? Someone who is not intelligent
enough to survive without constant care in the sort of society we
have, and yet intelligent enough to be angry about it?
Odysseus
I doubt you'll find a single English word for that. This may be in
part because we often experience emotions like anger regardless of
how rational or justified they may seem to a detached observer.
Whether or not we *express* such emotions or allow them to affect our
judgement, and if we do, how and when (or, in the case of anger,
whether we forgive the people who provoke it), may well be a matter
of reason or socialization, but the feelings themselves are quite
independent of rational considerations.
I think you'll be more likely to find words that refer to *behaviour*
caused by irrational or uncomprehending anger, in some of their
connotations at least: "tantrum" has already been suggested (and
criticized), and I'll submit "petulance" for consideration.
--
Odysseus
raymond o'hara
"Ian Noble" >>
>>I can't think of a single word that conveys that sense. "Frustration" goes
>>part of the way - but not far enough.
> It's the first possibility that occurred to me. "Vexation" and "vexed
> frustration" were two others.
>
> Cheers - Ian
A Rubiks Cube can cause vexation which is a perfectly rational response to
one.
I think the OP is out of luck looking for one word. This seems a common
prblem here, posters trying to reduce phrases to one word. The Germans seem
to like words like that ,maybe they have one we can borrow,something like
Schadenfreude or farvenugen.
raymond o'hara
"Richard Yates" <ric...@yatesguitar.com> wrote in message
news:10t1pd3...@corp.supernews.com...
So if some punches you in the nose and kicks your dog, it's ignorant of you
to get angry?
Michael Mendelsohn
> I think the OP is out of luck looking for one word. This seems a common
> prblem here, posters trying to reduce phrases to one word. The Germans seem
> to like words like that ,maybe they have one we can borrow,something like
> Schadenfreude or farvenugen.
Please, when you borrow words, you ought to give them back the way you
got them, _not_ all mangled.
The word is "Fahrvergnügen", and it is a marketing word; the word
"Vergnügen" is quite aptly translated as "pleasure", "Fahrvergnügen" is
"driving pleasure". This is recognizably a marketing term because
driving causes stress to the driver and his heart. This fact, however,
does not help when selling cars.
The use of CamelCase in the Wiki community comes close to the German way
of glueing together words to make a new one: CommonProblem or
ReducedPhrase could occur in your post were it a wiki article.
I don't recall a German word that expresses the OP's concept.
Auf Wiedersehen
xexist
I agree with this (with the exception that a 'temper tantrum' certainly
looks like anger). An infant is 'potentially' ignorant. It seems
un-helpful to apply 'ignorant' to to someone who cannot be otherwise. The
word has been used pejoratively, as "ignorant savage", but that says more
about the speaker than about the object. Rocks are ignorant, but it makes
no sense to call them so.
I take Stephen Xu's example as a 'working example', not intended to be
hashed over in and of itself. The word that comes to my mind is "bigot".
This is only a partial answer, perhaps it will give someone else an
idea to a closer notion.
All bigots would share the characteristic of 'getting angry' due to
ignorance, but not all anger from ignorance would identify someone as a
bigot. A bigot may not always display anger (they would have to be
sufficiently threatened). And, the defining property would be
intolerance, rather than anger.
xexist
Joanne Marinelli
"xexist" <ne...@cyberwisp.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.04....@cyberwisp.net...
I've been confused by this discussion from the start, perhaps due to an
intrinsic lack of understanding German verb conjugation, which I was exposed
to in linguistics, but never studied beyond that, to get an intuitive grasp
of it, in that the suffix determines the verb tense and its agreement with
the subject?
My first objection, however, is the adjective noun coupling of the OP.
Ignorant anger doesn't exist, at least, not in English.
We have anger, plain and simple, whether or not that anger is based on
childhood development or bigotry. Temper tantrum describes an emotion state,
but not what triggered it, and bigot is a derogatory label for a person who
denigrates *difference*, but the word itself isn't necessarily synomous with
ignorance.
Ignorance is a descriptive for lack of knowledge, or an ingrained prejudice.
Joanne