"Pretty" meaning "very" - Why?
www.mantra.com/jyotish
Benjamin Lukoff <l=u=k=o_b_e_@y+a+h-o-o-.-c=o=m> posted:
> Skitt wrote:
>> "Larry G" <larr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:9jnik2$e0vk$1...@ID-37509.news.dfncis.de...
>>> Does anyone know what the word "pretty" in some instances has come to mean
>>> "very"? And, is this limited to American English, or do other places use
>>> it in this way as well?
>> "Pretty" has several meanings, but "very" is not one of them.
>> - Skitt
> I don't know why "pretty" has come to mean "to a moderate degree" but
> note that "fairly" means the same thing. And, of course, one meaning of
> of "fair" is "pretty". - Benjamin Lukoff
This "Skitt" continues to spread misinformation.
The word "pretty" is indeed used to convey the
"very" sense. The dictionary confirms my opinion
of its usage:
"pretty Very bad; terrible: in a pretty predicament;
a situation that has reached a pretty pass."
- The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Skitt
<address....@web.site www.mantra.com/jyotish (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote
in message news:English-16...@news.mantra.com...
Yes, and that is a poor definition of the word, but then, the AHD does that
sometimes. It has been discussed in this forum before. Be that as it may,
what you failed to notice is that there are TWO words to the definition, and
"very" is just a modifier for the main word in the definition, which is
"bad". So what they are saying is that "pretty" means "very bad", not just
"very". Get it?
Nice try.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
JB
AHD: pretty(adj): 5. Informal: Considerable in size or extent: a pretty
fortune.
M-W:
Main Entry: 2pret·ty
Function: adverb
Date: 1565
1 : in some degree : MODERATELY <pretty cold weather>
usage Some handbooks complain that pretty is overworked and
recommend the selection of a more specific word or restrict pretty
to informal or colloquial contexts. Pretty is used to tone down a
statement and is in wide use across the whole spectrum of English.
It is common in informal speech and writing but is neither rare nor
wrong in serious discourse <he may, if he be pretty well off or
clever, qualify himself as a doctor -- G. B. Shaw> <a return to those
traditions of American foreign policy which worked pretty well for
over a century -- H. S. Commager> <the arguments for buying
expensive books have to be pretty cogent -- Times Literary
Supplement>
In many of M-W's examples, pretty could mean very, and it is often used
that way (pretty damn cold). --JB
Skitt
"JB" <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote in message
news:3B5F7A79...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART...
Read it again. Slowly. Pay attention to the "MODERATELY" and "tone down"
parts. It can be taken as "fairly", not "very".
The good doctor tried, but as usual, fell a bit short of being right. If he
keeps trying, chances are he will get something right sometime, so let's not
give up hope. Meanwhile, we just have to bear with him. No problem.
www.mantra.com/jyotish
JB <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> posted:
>> http://www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote
>> in message news:English-16...@news.mantra.com...
>>> In article <9jnkuf$kc0$2...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>,
>>> Benjamin Lukoff <l=u=k=o_b_e_@y+a+h-o-o-.-c=o=m> posted:
>>>
>>>> Skitt <sk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "Larry G" <larr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:9jnik2$e0vk$1...@ID-37509.news.dfncis.de...
>>>>>> Does anyone know what the word "pretty" in some instances has come to
>>>>>> mean "very"? And, is this limited to American English, or do other
>>>>>> places use it in this way as well?
>>>>> "Pretty" has several meanings, but "very" is not one of them.
>>>>> - Skitt <sk...@earthlink.net>
>>>> I don't know why "pretty" has come to mean "to a moderate degree" but
>>>> note that "fairly" means the same thing. And, of course, one meaning of
>>>> of "fair" is "pretty". - Benjamin Lukoff
>>> This "Skitt" continues to spread misinformation.
>>> The word "pretty" is indeed used to convey the
>>> "very" sense. The dictionary confirms my opinion
>>> of its usage:
>>> "pretty Very bad; terrible: in a pretty predicament;
>>> a situation that has reached a pretty pass."
>>> - The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.
>>> - Jai Maharaj
>
> AHD: pretty(adj): 5. Informal: Considerable in size or extent: a pretty
> fortune.
>
> M-W:
> Main Entry: 2pret·ty
> Function: adverb
> Date: 1565
> 1 : in some degree : MODERATELY <pretty cold weather>
> usage Some handbooks complain that pretty is overworked and
> recommend the selection of a more specific word or restrict pretty
> to informal or colloquial contexts. Pretty is used to tone down a
> statement and is in wide use across the whole spectrum of English.
> It is common in informal speech and writing but is neither rare nor
> wrong in serious discourse <he may, if he be pretty well off or
> clever, qualify himself as a doctor -- G. B. Shaw> <a return to those
> traditions of American foreign policy which worked pretty well for
> over a century -- H. S. Commager> <the arguments for buying
> expensive books have to be pretty cogent -- Times Literary
> Supplement>
>
> In many of M-W's examples, pretty could mean very, and it is often used
> that way (pretty damn cold). --JB
Exactly. "Pretty" can and does mean "very" in certain, popular usage.
Dr Robin Bignall
wrote:
[..]
>Read it again. Slowly. Pay attention to the "MODERATELY" and "tone down"
>parts. It can be taken as "fairly", not "very".
>
>The good doctor tried, but as usual, fell a bit short of being right. If he
>keeps trying, chances are he will get something right sometime, so let's not
>give up hope. Meanwhile, we just have to bear with him. No problem.
The words 'pretty' and 'fairly' are often used in British
understatement, and the meaning depends on the tone of the voice. In
answer to "How was the concert?" an "Oh, it was pretty good" with a
descending tone means that it was moderate to bad. With an ascending
tone it means the opposite.
--
wrmst rgrds
RB...(docr...@ntlworld.com)
JB
> >
> > AHD: pretty(adj): 5. Informal: Considerable in size or extent: a pretty
> > fortune.
> >
> > M-W:
> > Main Entry: 2pret·ty
> > Function: adverb
> > Date: 1565
> > 1 : in some degree : MODERATELY <pretty cold weather>
> > usage Some handbooks complain that pretty is overworked and
> > recommend the selection of a more specific word or restrict pretty
> > to informal or colloquial contexts. Pretty is used to tone down a
> > statement and is in wide use across the whole spectrum of English.
> > It is common in informal speech and writing but is neither rare nor
> > wrong in serious discourse <he may, if he be pretty well off or
> > clever, qualify himself as a doctor -- G. B. Shaw> <a return to those
> > traditions of American foreign policy which worked pretty well for
> > over a century -- H. S. Commager> <the arguments for buying
> > expensive books have to be pretty cogent -- Times Literary
> > Supplement>
> >
> > In many of M-W's examples, pretty could mean very, and it is often used
> > that way (pretty damn cold). --JB
>
> Read it again. Slowly. Pay attention to the "MODERATELY" and "tone down"
> parts. It can be taken as "fairly", not "very".
Read it again. Slowly. Pay attention to the "in some degree" part
(which is separate and distinct from the "moderately" part). "In some
degree" means to any degree intended. Also note AHD's "Considerable in
size or extent" (considerable is greater than moderate).
M-W's usage note focuses on the 'moderate' usage, but as I said, in many
of M-W's examples (including those in the usage note), pretty could mean
very, if that's what was intended, and it is often used that way (pretty
damn cold).
"Pretty damn cold" means "very damn cold" in my book. "Pretty neat"
means "very neat". "Pretty cool" would not be considered by a prideful
new car owner as a 'damning with faint praise' disparaging comment on
the coolness of his latest pride and joy.
"Pretty" can be and often is used to mean "very".
--JB
Skitt
"JB" <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote in message
Just which part of the above do you interpret as justifying the meaning
"very"?
>
> "Pretty damn cold" means "very damn cold" in my book. "Pretty neat"
> means "very neat". "Pretty cool" would not be considered by a prideful
> new car owner as a 'damning with faint praise' disparaging comment on
> the coolness of his latest pride and joy.
You have a different take on this than I and all the poeple I have known to
use the word. Dropping the "damn" from "pretty cold", as it has nothing to
do with the definition of "pretty" by itself, I'd say that "pretty cold"
means "moderately cold" and no colder than that. Same for "pretty neat".
Not neat to a great extent, but fairly neat.
>
> "Pretty" can be and often is used to mean "very".
Sez you. I and many others disagree.
JB
I just explained it: In some(uspecified) degree. Considerable size and
extent. No implicit connotation of mediocrity or moderateness.
<a return to those traditions of American foreign policy which worked
pretty well for over a century -- H. S. Commager> 'Pretty' could mean
either 'moderately' or 'very' depending on author's intent.
<the arguments for buying expensive books have to be pretty cogent --
Times Literary Supplement> The imperative 'have to be' almost forces
'pretty' to mean 'very'.
> > "Pretty damn cold" means "very damn cold" in my book. "Pretty neat"
> > means "very neat". "Pretty cool" would not be considered by a prideful
> > new car owner as a 'damning with faint praise' disparaging comment on
> > the coolness of his latest pride and joy.
>
> You have a different take on this than I and all the poeple I have known to
> use the word. Dropping the "damn" from "pretty cold", as it has nothing to
> do with the definition of "pretty" by itself, I'd say that "pretty cold"
> means "moderately cold" and no colder than that.
Odd that you would rewrite my example without commenting on it, then
proceed to comment on an example of your own making. Perhaps you felt
that claiming "pretty damn cold" was the same as "moderately damn cold"
would not be persuasive.
> Same for "pretty neat".
> Not neat to a great extent, but fairly neat.
Nope. You don't have a feel for idiomatic usage. In "pretty neat!",
'pretty' is a superlative. Same way for "hey, that's really a pretty
cool car!"
> > "Pretty" can be and often is used to mean "very".
>
> Sez you. I and many others disagree.
pretty - adv : intensifier, as in "pretty big"; "pretty bad"; (`jolly'
is used informally in Britain as in "jolly decent of him") [syn: jolly]
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
I doubt anyone would say that 'jolly' means 'moderately'.
M-W Thes:
Entry Word: pretty
Function: adjective
Synonyms: SKILLFUL 2, adroit, clever, good, ||skilly, wicked,
workmanlike, workmanly
Related Word: darling, ducky; cunning, cute
None of these terms connote 'moderately' or 'fairly'.
--JB
Skitt
"JB" <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote in message
Not to me, nor, I think, most people. Not "very".
> <the arguments for buying expensive books have to be pretty cogent --
> Times Literary Supplement> The imperative 'have to be' almost forces
> 'pretty' to mean 'very'.
I'd say "fairly".
>
> > > "Pretty damn cold" means "very damn cold" in my book. "Pretty neat"
> > > means "very neat". "Pretty cool" would not be considered by a
prideful
> > > new car owner as a 'damning with faint praise' disparaging comment on
> > > the coolness of his latest pride and joy.
> >
> > You have a different take on this than I and all the poeple I have known
to
> > use the word. Dropping the "damn" from "pretty cold", as it has nothing
to
> > do with the definition of "pretty" by itself, I'd say that "pretty cold"
> > means "moderately cold" and no colder than that.
>
> Odd that you would rewrite my example without commenting on it, then
> proceed to comment on an example of your own making. Perhaps you felt
> that claiming "pretty damn cold" was the same as "moderately damn cold"
> would not be persuasive.
I rewrote it because we are not talking about "pretty damn" but "pretty".
Can't you understand that?
If you can't, there's no more reason to discuss this.
>
> > Same for "pretty neat".
> > Not neat to a great extent, but fairly neat.
>
> Nope. You don't have a feel for idiomatic usage. In "pretty neat!",
> 'pretty' is a superlative. Same way for "hey, that's really a pretty
> cool car!"
>
> > > "Pretty" can be and often is used to mean "very".
> >
> > Sez you. I and many others disagree.
>
> pretty - adv : intensifier, as in "pretty big"; "pretty bad"; (`jolly'
> is used informally in Britain as in "jolly decent of him") [syn: jolly]
>
> Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
>
> I doubt anyone would say that 'jolly' means 'moderately'.
>
> M-W Thes:
> Entry Word: pretty
> Function: adjective
> Synonyms: SKILLFUL 2, adroit, clever, good, ||skilly, wicked,
> workmanlike, workmanly
> Related Word: darling, ducky; cunning, cute
>
> None of these terms connote 'moderately' or 'fairly'.
See my quote from the same source (MWCD10), up near the top.
I believe that you are fighting for very much a minority view on this. See
some of the other posts in this thread as to how people perceive the various
shades of meaning for words like "quite, fairly, pretty, very" and such.
Robert Lieblich
>
> "JB" <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote:
[a whole lot of stuff]
> I believe that you are fighting for very much a minority view on this.
JB's a true expert. He got me going a while back on the issue of
whether "FBI" is an acronym. For every argument I made he had a
plausible retort. He never runs dry.
> See
> some of the other posts in this thread as to how people perceive the various
> shades of meaning for words like "quite, fairly, pretty, very" and such.
Hey, whadd're ya gonna believe -- the vast majority of speakers and
dictionaries or your own a priori analysis?
Skitt
"Robert Lieblich" <lieb...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3B60B5C8...@erols.com...
> Skitt wrote:
> >
> > "JB" <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote:
>
> [a whole lot of stuff]
>
> > I believe that you are fighting for very much a minority view on this.
>
> JB's a true expert. He got me going a while back on the issue of
> whether "FBI" is an acronym. For every argument I made he had a
> plausible retort. He never runs dry.
Oh, I remember JB. How can one forget?
JB
>
> Skitt wrote:
> >
> > "JB" <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote:
>
> [a whole lot of stuff]
>
> > I believe that you are fighting for very much a minority view on this.
>
> JB's a true expert. He got me going a while back on the issue of
> whether "FBI" is an acronym.
No one has any doubts about that, do they? And shouldn't that be
'whether or not'? Just asking...
> For every argument I made he had a
> plausible retort. He never runs dry.
Thanks for that 'plausible'(='credible'). --JB
JB
> >
> > None of these terms connote 'moderately' or 'fairly'.
>
> See my quote from the same source (MWCD10), up near the top.
>
> I believe that you are fighting for very much a minority view on this. See
> some of the other posts in this thread as to how people perceive the various
> shades of meaning for words like "quite, fairly, pretty, very" and such.
I haven't said that 'pretty' means 'very' and not 'moderately'. The
'moderately' sense predominates, to be sure. Many words in English have
multiple senses, some even directly antonymical. It is a fact that in
some idiomatic usages 'pretty' means 'very', i.e., an indefinite
intensifier. I have cited authority allowing this usage. A single word
having various meanings is pretty damn common. --JB
Odysseus
> >
> > "Pretty damn cold" means "very damn cold" in my book. "Pretty neat"
> > means "very neat". "Pretty cool" would not be considered by a prideful
> > new car owner as a 'damning with faint praise' disparaging comment on
> > the coolness of his latest pride and joy.
>
> You have a different take on this than I and all the poeple I have known to
> use the word. Dropping the "damn" from "pretty cold", as it has nothing to
> do with the definition of "pretty" by itself, I'd say that "pretty cold"
> means "moderately cold" and no colder than that. Same for "pretty neat".
> Not neat to a great extent, but fairly neat.
>
ear "pretty damn cold" qualifies "damn cold" (= "uncomfortably cold")
with the suggestion that it's not quite as cold as it might be. So
"pretty" here is more or less synonymous with "fairly", meaning
something like "to a considerable extent but not to the extreme".
"Fully" would be a better match for "very", i.e. "without qualification".
--Odysseus
JB
"Pretty damn cold" is colder than "damn cold". "Pretty damn cold" is
what it was when getting off the plane at Prudhoe Bay without a parka
when it was -40degF (-60WCF). It can get colder, but the difference is
imperceptible.
Dropping the 'pretty' or the 'damn' in considering the phrase is not
valid. The phrase conveys a tone (always difficult to convey in
writing) which is lost when words are elided. In speech, "he's pretty
smart" can mean 'fairly smart' or 'extremely smart', depending on how
the statement is voiced; in writing, "he's pretty damn smart" (which is
a common locution) clearly conveys which sense is intended.
To implement your suggestions in the example at hand:
Fairly damn cold
Fully damn cold
I don't think so.
Incidentally, 'very' does not mean "without qualification", which I take
to mean "absolute". 'Very' is an indefinite intensifier.
--JB
Roberta Davies
>
>
> AHD: pretty(adj): 5. Informal: Considerable in size or extent: a pretty
> fortune.
>
> M-W:
> Main Entry: 2pret·ty
> Function: adverb
> Date: 1565
> 1 : in some degree : MODERATELY <pretty cold weather>
> usage Some handbooks complain that pretty is overworked and
> recommend the selection of a more specific word or restrict pretty
> to informal or colloquial contexts. Pretty is used to tone down a
> statement and is in wide use across the whole spectrum of English.
> It is common in informal speech and writing but is neither rare nor
> wrong in serious discourse <he may, if he be pretty well off or
> clever, qualify himself as a doctor -- G. B. Shaw> <a return to those
> traditions of American foreign policy which worked pretty well for
> over a century -- H. S. Commager> <the arguments for buying
> expensive books have to be pretty cogent -- Times Literary
> Supplement>
>
> In many of M-W's examples, pretty could mean very, and it is often used
> that way (pretty damn cold). --JB
Just in case anyone missed that date (1565) and might think "pretty" as
an intensifier is a modern colloquialism, here are a few quotes from a
medical book of 1707. This is a technical medical work for the use of
doctors and apothecaries.
But almost innumerable of Agues have been cured with _Emplastrum
febrifugum magnum_ ... being spread upon an oval Piece of Leather about
eight Inches long, and five Inches broad, and applied to the Pit of the
Stomach; and being also spread upon Pieces of Leather, Cloth, or brown
Paper, so long as to go round ones Wrist, and about two Inches broad,
which are to be applied to the Wrists of both hands, and to be pretty
hard bound on, yet not so hard, as to benumb the part, or cause it to
swell.
The Patient [with scarlet fever] is affected with an intense Heat, with
Thirst, Driness of the Throat, Tongue, and Mouth; the Skin of the whole
Body is red or reddish, and pretty full of Pimples, or rather red
Specks, which are yet much redder than the Skin it self.
[On the diet appropriate in smallpox] You may give the Sick often
Panada, and Canary-Whey, which can give no assistance to the Disease,
but do certainly comfort the Spirits; and sometimes a pretty white
Posset-drink made with Ale, and a little sweetned with double refined
Sugar.
(From "Praxis Medica: The Practice of Physick, or Dr. Sydenham's
_Processus Integri_ Translated out of Latin into English..." by William
Salmon, 1707)
These three quotes are the ones I could find just flicking through the
book very quickly. I'm sure I recall directions for, e.g., boiling up a
decoction "for a pretty while" (i.e. a good long time).
Robbie