engineer by training?

[fl]

Hi,
I read the following passage on line. I do not understand the phrase "by training" although I guess it means an engineer who trains somebody. Could you explain it to me with some detail?


Thanks,


..........
Yoshida, an engineer by training, directed workers to stop the reactors from overheating after Japan’s strongest earthquake on record and an ensuing tsunami hit the plant on March 11, 2011, causing the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl. He stayed at the plant, helming the disaster response for almost nine months.

[Bill McCray]

He was studied as an engineer in school or as an apprentice.

Bill in Kentucky

[Jack Campin]

> I read the following passage on line. I do not understand the phrase
> "by training"

>: Yoshida, an engineer by training, directed workers to stop the
>: reactors from overheating after Japan零 strongest earthquake on

>: record and an ensuing tsunami hit the plant on March 11, 2011,
>: causing the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl. He stayed at
>: the plant, helming the disaster response for almost nine months.

It means he was trained as an engineer rather than as a manager,
as you might expect for somebody doing a management job.

(In the US the surprise would be that he wasn't a soldier, that
being the class of incompetent that the state likes to put in
charge of situations that are going pear-shaped).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[CRNG]

On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 11:26:47 +0100, Jack Campin
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<bogus-5C1DDC....@four.schnuerpel.eu> Re Re: engineer by
training?:

>> I read the following passage on line. I do not understand the phrase
>> "by training"
>>: Yoshida, an engineer by training, directed workers to stop the
>>: reactors from overheating after Japan零 strongest earthquake on
>>: record and an ensuing tsunami hit the plant on March 11, 2011,
>>: causing the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl. He stayed at
>>: the plant, helming the disaster response for almost nine months.
>
>It means he was trained as an engineer rather than as a manager,
>as you might expect for somebody doing a management job.

That is a good explanation.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

[Pablo]

Is that a legitimate use "to be studied as..." for "to be trained as..."?

Or did I miss a joke?

--

Pablo

http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
http://paulc.es/

[Don Phillipson]

"fl" <rxj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:38eda386-da49-43e6...@googlegroups.com...

<<
I read the following passage on line. I do not understand the phrase "by
training" although I guess it means an engineer who trains somebody. Could
you explain it to me with some detail?

Thanks,
..........
Yoshida, an engineer by training, directed workers to stop the reactors from
overheating after Japan’s strongest earthquake
>>

The OP correctly complains the phrase is ambiguous and
misleading, buit is wrong that "by training" means the person
teachers others.

"Engineer" is an ambiguous word so far as there now are
(simultaneously) two different patterns of use.
1. Informally, anyone who works with machinery is "an
engineer." Railroad engineer is the standard US term for
a locomotive engine driver, a stationary engineer is the
man who manages a furnace or water heater, people
who write computer code call themselves software engineers etc.
2. Engineering is also a formally-recognized technical
profession, with specialized curricula and credentials, and
monopoly privileges guaranteed by law. Modern laws
usually require that architectural structures (e.g. bridges
and tunnels) be designed only by qualified civil engineers
with recognized credentials, that nuclear reactors be
managed only by accredited nuclear engineers etc.

The source phrase is not clear. "By training" does not denote
either of these types of usage unambiguously. It looks like
#2 but no convention of language (or law) sustains this.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Bill McCray]

Neither. It's a case of incomplete editing. I started to write one
thing, decided to change it, and didn't finish the edit. Sorry. It
should have been "He studied as an engineer in school or as an
apprentice." As for me, I am an engineer by training, but a logic
designer and software designer by experience. I am a programmar programmer.

Bill in Kentucky

[John Varela]

On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 11:08:29 UTC, CRNG <noe...@atthisdomain.gov>
wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 11:26:47 +0100, Jack Campin
> <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> <bogus-5C1DDC....@four.schnuerpel.eu> Re Re: engineer by
> training?:
>
> >> I read the following passage on line. I do not understand the phrase
> >> "by training"
> >>: Yoshida, an engineer by training, directed workers to stop the
> >>: reactors from overheating after Japan零 strongest earthquake on
> >>: record and an ensuing tsunami hit the plant on March 11, 2011,
> >>: causing the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl. He stayed at
> >>: the plant, helming the disaster response for almost nine months.
> >
> >It means he was trained as an engineer rather than as a manager,
> >as you might expect for somebody doing a management job.
>
> That is a good explanation.

On the contrary, it is an assinine remark.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

Others have explained "engineer by training" so I'll switch to
asking, am I the only one bothered by "helm" as a verb? Yes,
Shakespeare used it but OED's latest citation is from 1890.

--
John Varela

[Richard Owlett]

I think that it is one of the few cases where a formally
incorrect usage makes a vivid picture. Can't you picture a
captain of a storm tossed ship guiding his men to keep it safe.

[Richard Owlett]

DISAGREE!

[Whiskers]

The usage grates with me too, but it is interesting; OED online gives both
the "steer a ship" and "put a helmet upon" verbs, so could the passage in
question actually be a very erudite pun - Yoshida both steered the response
and put a lid on the disaster?

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Don P]

On 10-Jul-2013 2:36 PM, John Varela wrote:

> . . . am I the only one bothered by "helm" as a verb? Yes,

> Shakespeare used it but OED's latest citation is from 1890.

If so, this seems an error: lots of Americans use helm as
a verb = direct or steer. It is the sort of metaphor Timespeak
encouraged in the 1930s (and may have been reinforced by
Chairman Mao's being called the Great Helmsman in the 1960s.)

[John Varela]

On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 23:54:54 UTC, Don P <ey...@ncf.ca> wrote:

> On 10-Jul-2013 2:36 PM, John Varela wrote:
>
> > . . . am I the only one bothered by "helm" as a verb? Yes,
> > Shakespeare used it but OED's latest citation is from 1890.
>
> If so, this seems an error: lots of Americans use helm as
> a verb = direct or steer.

I don't hear it often, which is why it caught my attention.

> It is the sort of metaphor Timespeak
> encouraged in the 1930s (and may have been reinforced by
> Chairman Mao's being called the Great Helmsman in the 1960s.)

And all those cyber- words derive from an ancient Greek word meaning
"helmsman" [1]. I still don't like the verb "to helm".


[1] Actually, "steersman", because the ancient Greeks didn't have
helms, but if they had had helms, they would have used the same word
to describe them.

--
John Varela

[vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com]

I am an engineer by training. I hold a degree in engineering. I also hold an
intern engineer license, also called "EIT" or "engineer-in-training" and if I
could document four years design (as opposed to research or finance)
experience and take a second 8hr exam, I could be called "professional
engineer". In same states it is illegal to call yourself an engineer unless
you hold this "PE" license. I have heard of folks with physics degrees get
EIT/PE licenses.

Also there is abet.org which accredits engineering schools. Schools who do
not have such accreditation are forced to call themselves "Technology"
schools instead. In the USA (and other Saxon traditions) there is a dichotomy
between what a state govt allows and what self-regulating peer-review bodies
allow. Usually government jobs depend on the former and private jobs on the
latter. Investment banks will even adjust a salary to school (eg A 80,ooo, B
50,ooo, C 30,ooo) as a young friend who thought he was clever to go to a
lazier school found out when he riffled his interviewers desk.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

[vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com]

A lot of third world dictators (eg CIacescu) claimed fabricated engineering
credentials. They believed it showed they relied on "scientific" and not
"commercial" thinking.

As Jimmy Carter and Herbert Hoover and Mayor BLoomberg sadly proved,
engineers are usually very poor at understanding human nature

[unaing...@gmail.com]

Engineer by training means one become engineer not by acquiring degree or diploma from university ot college.( It is my guessing)

[John Varela]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 10:51:41 UTC, unaing...@gmail.com wrote:

> Engineer by training means one become engineer not by acquiring degree or diploma from university ot college.( It is my guessing)

If someone said, "I am an engineer by training but now I am a
mountain guide," he would mean that he has an engineering degree but
for whatever reason decided to live a different life style.

--
John Varela

[Madrigal Gurneyhalt]

There is no information in that sentence that leads one to the conclusion
that he has an engineering degree rather than any other form of
training such as apprenticeship or having been brought up in the family
business.

[John Varela]

Fine. Maybe you know where there are apprenticeship programs for
engineers. I don't, at least not in the USA. But anyway, just for
you, I'll reword it to "If I said..." instead of "If someone
said..."

OK? Except of course I am not now nor have I ever been a mountain
guide. Or any other kind of guide.

--
John Varela

[Madrigal Gurneyhalt]

LinkedIn lists hundreds of them. US Dept of Labor certainly seems to
be under the impression that they exist.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On 20 Apr 2018 17:22:25 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 21:31:35 UTC, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
><purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, 19 April 2018 20:33:22 UTC+1, John Varela wrote:
>> > On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 10:51:41 UTC, unaing...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > Engineer by training means one become engineer not by acquiring degree or diploma from university ot college.( It is my guessing)
>> >
>> > If someone said, "I am an engineer by training but now I am a
>> > mountain guide," he would mean that he has an engineering degree but
>> > for whatever reason decided to live a different life style.
>>
>> There is no information in that sentence that leads one to the conclusion
>> that he has an engineering degree rather than any other form of
>> training such as apprenticeship or having been brought up in the family
>> business.
>
>Fine. Maybe you know where there are apprenticeship programs for
>engineers. I don't, at least not in the USA.

What we don't know is whethrer the word "engineer" is being used in a
strict sense or more broadly.

One local example - when I have my central heating boiler serviced the
man who does the job signs the form in the box marked "Engineer's
signature". He is undoubtedly trained and qualified for the work he
does, but he is not what I would know as a "Professional Engineer".


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[John Varela]

Well, yes. After he retired from the Corps of Engineers my
father-in-law worked as an 'Operating engineer' on a construction
project.

Nevertheless, when I say that I am an engineer by training,and I do,
I mean a graduate engineer. I think so do most people who use the
term.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 22:30:05 UTC, Madrigal Gurneyhalt

And garbage collectors are said to sometimes call themselves
"sanitary engineers". They don't fool anybody.

There are also real jobs called "operating engineer" and "stationary
engineer" and "locomotive engineer" and so forth. So what?

I have hired non-degreed people with long experience into
engineering jobs, but that doesn't mean that they were engineers by
training. Experience and training are two different things.

--
John Varela

[semir...@my-deja.com]

He was originally trained to be an engineer.
The words "by training" indicate the subject/area of his training,
but not the level.
It does NOT indicate that he trains others.

On the other hand some airlines have (or had)
"Training Captains" who do/did supervise trainee pilots

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 16:10:00 -0700 (PDT), semir...@my-deja.com wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 at 2:46:44 AM UTC+1, fl wrote:
>>Hi, I read the following passage on line. I do not understand the
>>phrase "by training" although I guess it means an engineer who
>>trains somebody. Could you explain it to me with some detail?
>> Thanks,
>>..........
>> Yoshida, an engineer by training, directed workers to stop the
>>reactors from overheating after Japan’s strongest earthquake on
>>record and an ensuing tsunami hit the plant on March 11, 2011,
>>causing the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl. He stayed
>>at the plant, helming the disaster response for almost nine months.
>
>He was originally trained to be an engineer.
>The words "by training" indicate the subject/area of his training,
>but not the level.

Agreed. In this case it also refers to the fact that although an
"engineer by training" has was not employed as an engineer.

The quotation is from this news report which starts:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/masao-yoshida-manager-of-the-fukushima-atomic-plant-dies-at-58/2013/07/09/ce7cf1e8-e8ad-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.37ccec3f30f5

July 9, 2013
Masao Yoshida, the plant manager who led the fight to bring Japan’s
Fukushima atomic station under control during the 2011 nuclear
disaster, died July 9 at a hospital in Tokyo. He was 58.

His job was manager in charge of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant (a
group of six nuclear reactors). He had studied nuclear engineering at
the Tokyo Institute of Technology but was not working as an engineer at
the Daiichi plant.

>It does NOT indicate that he trains others.
>
>On the other hand some airlines have (or had)
>"Training Captains" who do/did supervise trainee pilots
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 4/19/2018 3:51 AM, unaing...@gmail.com wrote:
> Engineer by training means one become engineer not by acquiring degree or diploma from university ot college.( It is my guessing)
>

No, it's just a long-winded way of sayin' he or she's an engineer.
The real question is... with which railroad is this person employed?