the distinction of "wreak havoc" versus "wreck havoc"
formosan
http://dict.yqie.com/english/w/wreak.htm
[quote]
Wreak is sometimes confused with wreck, perhaps because the wreaking
of damage may leave a wreck: The storm wreaked (not wrecked ) havoc
along the coast. The past tense and past participle of wreak is
wreaked, not wrought, which is an alternative past tense and past
participle of work.
[/quote]
I live in Taiwan, where almost every summer typhoons inflict
destruction.
And yet no one can seem to stop talking about "wrecking havoc" and
"wrecked havoc."
mm
That many people speak English there? Or you hang around with a lot
of people whose native language is English and they use either phrase
a lot?
Wrecking havoc would be ruining the havoc, which I guess would mean
making things peaceful again and putting things back the way they used
to be. If only there were an easy way to do that.
Some people in the US also say "wreck havoc". I guess they weren't
paying attention when heard the phrase correctly spoken.
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which
area they are asking questions. I have lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 10 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years
David Kaye
>[quote]
>Wreak is sometimes confused with wreck, perhaps because the wreaking
>of damage may leave a wreck:
This may be prevalent in other countries, but in the U.S. I have never heard
"wreck" used in place of "wreak". That said, the only time I see or hear the
word "wreak" used is in "wreak havoc", indicating that if you have havoc it
must be wreaked, and you can't wreak anything other than havoc.
I did see some writing the other day that talked about the 4th anniversary of
Katrina, the storm that "reeked havoc" on New Orleans. I'm sure that in its
own way part of New Orleans actually did reek after the the storm and the warm
summer days.
============
DK does PC tech support for business & personal users.
contrex
> you can't wreak anything other than havoc.
Apart from havoc, you can wreak mischief, calamity and Armageddon that
I know of.
contrex
> if you have havoc it must be wreaked
The participle you want is "wrought", and havoc can also be cried or
played. The military order "Havoc!" was a signal given to the English
military forces in the Middle Ages to direct the soldiery (in
Shakespeare's parlance 'the dogs of war') to pillage and chaos.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<mike.j...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 24 Aug, 21:18, sfdavidka...@yahoo.com (David Kaye) wrote:
>
>> if you have havoc it must be wreaked
>
>The participle you want is "wrought",
Sorry, but "wreaked" is the past participle of "wreak".
"Wrought" is an old past participle of "work".
OED:
work, v.
[...The new pa. tense and pple. worked, formed directly on the inf.
stem, became established in the 15th century; it is now the normal
form except in archaic usage (in which the older form wrought may
appear in any sense), and in senses which denote fashioning,
shaping, or decorating with the hand or an implement: see WROUGHT.]
> and havoc can also be cried or
>played. The military order "Havoc!" was a signal given to the English
>military forces in the Middle Ages to direct the soldiery (in
>Shakespeare's parlance 'the dogs of war') to pillage and chaos.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> said:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:55:59 -0700 (PDT), contrex
> <mike.j...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24 Aug, 21:18, sfdavidka...@yahoo.com (David Kaye) wrote:
>>
>>> if you have havoc it must be wreaked
>>
>> The participle you want is "wrought",
>
> Sorry, but "wreaked" is the past participle of "wreak".
True, but I think one sometimes hears "wrought havoc".
>
> "Wrought" is an old past participle of "work".
Still living in some fixed phrases, such as (and maybe limited to)
"wrought iron".
>
> OED:
>
> work, v.
>
> [...The new pa. tense and pple. worked, formed directly on the inf.
> stem, became established in the 15th century; it is now the normal
> form except in archaic usage (in which the older form wrought may
> appear in any sense), and in senses which denote fashioning,
> shaping, or decorating with the hand or an implement: see WROUGHT.]
>
>> and havoc can also be cried or
>> played. The military order "Havoc!" was a signal given to the English
>> military forces in the Middle Ages to direct the soldiery (in
>> Shakespeare's parlance 'the dogs of war') to pillage and chaos.
--
athel
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<athe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On 2009-08-25 12:11:40 +0200, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
><ma...@peterduncanson.net> said:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:55:59 -0700 (PDT), contrex
>> <mike.j...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24 Aug, 21:18, sfdavidka...@yahoo.com (David Kaye) wrote:
>>>
>>>> if you have havoc it must be wreaked
>>>
>>> The participle you want is "wrought",
>>
>> Sorry, but "wreaked" is the past participle of "wreak".
>
>True, but I think one sometimes hears "wrought havoc".
>
>>
>> "Wrought" is an old past participle of "work".
>
>Still living in some fixed phrases, such as (and maybe limited to)
>"wrought iron".
>
There is "overwrought":
Exhausted by overwork; worked to excess. Also in extended use:
over-excited; nervous; distraught.
Some one can be described as "overwrought" if they have "worked themself
into a state".
mm
wrote:
>formosan <formosa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>[quote]
>>Wreak is sometimes confused with wreck, perhaps because the wreaking
>>of damage may leave a wreck:
>
>This may be prevalent in other countries, but in the U.S. I have never heard
>"wreck" used in place of "wreak". That said, the only time I see or hear the
>word "wreak" used is in "wreak havoc", indicating that if you have havoc it
>must be wreaked, and you can't wreak anything other than havoc.
I read here, indirectly, that you can wreak iron. Where else would
you get wrought iron?
Just kidding.
>I did see some writing the other day that talked about the 4th anniversary of
>Katrina, the storm that "reeked havoc" on New Orleans. I'm sure that in its
>own way part of New Orleans actually did reek after the the storm and the warm
>summer days.
>
Marshall Price
"Wrought" is a past participle of "work", not "wreak".
--
Marshall Price of Miami
marsha...@att.net
http://marshallprice.wordpress.com
Hatunen
<marsha...@att.net> wrote:
>contrex wrote:
>> On 24 Aug, 21:18, sfdavidka...@yahoo.com (David Kaye) wrote:
>>
>>> if you have havoc it must be wreaked
>>
>> The participle you want is "wrought", and havoc can also be cried or
>> played. The military order "Havoc!" was a signal given to the English
>> military forces in the Middle Ages to direct the soldiery (in
>> Shakespeare's parlance 'the dogs of war') to pillage and chaos.
>
> "Wrought" is a past participle of "work", not "wreak".
"Wreak" is from Middle and Old English words for "revenge".
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
webe2...@gmail.com
Cause (a large amount of damage or harm) i.e. torrential rainstorms wreaked havoc yesterday -and-
The environmental damage wreaked by ninety years of phosphate mining...
So it is possible to wreak without having been "havoc'd"
Don Phillipson
>>
>> >[quote]
>> >Wreak is sometimes confused with wreck, perhaps because the wreaking
>> >of damage may leave a wreck:
If current misuse (nonstandard usage) derives from an item of
"missing knowledge" it is that
the verb WREAK is closely linked to the verb WORK
the only forms of wreak in modern use are the present
tense (as in wreak havoc) and the past tense (wrought
iron, "what hath God wrought?" viz. a known archaism.)
In cases of functional need, the verb WORK can probably
be used wherever there is a (doubtful) impulse to say WREAK.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
"work".
However, "wreak" has a different origin.
Wrought:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/wrought
Middle English: archaic past and past participle of work
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wrought
wrought
mid-13c., from past participle of Middle English werken (see work).
Wreak:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/wreak
cause (a large amount of damage or harm)
Origin:
Old English wrecan 'drive (out), avenge', of Germanic origin;
related to Dutch wreken and German rächen; compare with wrack4,
wreck, and wretch
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wreak
wreak (v.)
Old English wrecan "avenge," originally "to drive, drive out,
punish" (class V strong verb; past tense wræc, past participle
wrecen), from Proto-Germanic *wrekanan (cf. Old Saxon wrekan, Old
Norse reka, Old Frisian wreka, Middle Dutch wreken "to drive, push,
compel, pursue, throw," Old High German rehhan, German rächen "to
avenge," Gothic wrikan "to persecute"), from PIE root *werg- "to
work, to do" (cf. Lithuanian vergas "distress," vergas "slave;" Old
Church Slavonic vragu "enemy;" Latin urgere; see urge (v.)). Meaning
"inflict or take vengeance," with on, is recorded from late 15c.;
that of "inflict or cause (damage or destruction)" is attested from
1817.
"Wreck" used to mean the same as "wreak".
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wreck
wreck (v.)
"to destroy, ruin," c.1500, from wreck (n.). Related: Wrecked;
wrecking. Earlier (12c.) it meant "drive out or away, remove;" also
"take vengeance."