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'Firm' singular or plural?
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Frederick Williams
Feb 5, 2013, 10:45:11 AM2/5/13
to
'Mr Holder,' said he, 'I have been informed that you are in the habit
of advancing money.'
The firm do so when the security is good, I answered.
I would have thought 'The firm does so...'. Is it old usage (the
quotation is from a work published in the 1890's, I think); or a
misprint (in the original faithfully copied, or in the 1994 edition
before me); or is 'firm' (here) plural?
[Also, and for no reward whatsoever, can you identify the quotation
without recourse to an Internet search engine?]
--
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by
this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift: Thoughts on Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting
of advancing money.'
The firm do so when the security is good, I answered.
I would have thought 'The firm does so...'. Is it old usage (the
quotation is from a work published in the 1890's, I think); or a
misprint (in the original faithfully copied, or in the 1994 edition
before me); or is 'firm' (here) plural?
[Also, and for no reward whatsoever, can you identify the quotation
without recourse to an Internet search engine?]
--
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by
this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift: Thoughts on Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting
Daniel James
Feb 5, 2013, 11:03:31 AM2/5/13
to
In article <51112907...@btinternet.com>, Frederick Williams
wrote:
In British English, though, both the singular and plural forms are
commonly seen in a case such as this.
As in:
The government must be mad if they think that ...
or
The BBC have been showing some excellent new drama ...
In your example I think I should probably have written "The firm does
so", but I see nothing wrong with "do" in this context. It's clear that
the decision to advance money was taken by Mr.Holder himself and not by
a consensus of the partners in the firm ... so the usage might be seen
as short for "[Partners of] the firm do so when ...".
Cheers,
Daniel.
wrote:
> 'Mr Holder,' said he, 'I have been informed that you are in the habit
> of advancing money.'
> The firm do so when the security is good, I answered.
>
> I would have thought 'The firm does so...'.
Americans, generally, would agree with you.
> of advancing money.'
> The firm do so when the security is good, I answered.
>
> I would have thought 'The firm does so...'.
In British English, though, both the singular and plural forms are
commonly seen in a case such as this.
As in:
The government must be mad if they think that ...
or
The BBC have been showing some excellent new drama ...
In your example I think I should probably have written "The firm does
so", but I see nothing wrong with "do" in this context. It's clear that
the decision to advance money was taken by Mr.Holder himself and not by
a consensus of the partners in the firm ... so the usage might be seen
as short for "[Partners of] the firm do so when ...".
Cheers,
Daniel.
Don Phillipson
Feb 5, 2013, 11:07:55 AM2/5/13
to
"Frederick Williams" <freddyw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:51112907...@btinternet.com...
> 'Mr Holder,' said he, 'I have been informed that you are in the habit
> of advancing money.'
> The firm do so when the security is good, I answered.
>
> I would have thought 'The firm does so...'. Is it old usage (the
> quotation is from a work published in the 1890's, I think); or a
> misprint (in the original faithfully copied
Several common collective nouns (e.g. government, team, firm, cabinet,
committee) are grammatically handled as singular in American speech
and writing but plural in British speech and writing, e.g.
"The government is considering . . ." = good American
"The government are considering . . ." = good British.
This topic has been discussed in AEU and AUE (often.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
news:51112907...@btinternet.com...
> 'Mr Holder,' said he, 'I have been informed that you are in the habit
> of advancing money.'
> The firm do so when the security is good, I answered.
>
> I would have thought 'The firm does so...'. Is it old usage (the
> quotation is from a work published in the 1890's, I think); or a
> misprint (in the original faithfully copied
committee) are grammatically handled as singular in American speech
and writing but plural in British speech and writing, e.g.
"The government is considering . . ." = good American
"The government are considering . . ." = good British.
This topic has been discussed in AEU and AUE (often.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Frederick Williams
Feb 5, 2013, 11:35:00 AM2/5/13
to
used as if plural before.
THE COLONEL
Feb 5, 2013, 4:37:13 PM2/5/13
to
A firm cock is always singular.
abc
Feb 12, 2013, 12:22:17 PM2/12/13
to
THE COLONEL wrote:
> A firm cock is always singular.
The colonel's is reputedly more singular than most,
> A firm cock is always singular.
though the firmness is doubtful.
abc
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