Ques: AN historical vs A historical see inside...

askuiper

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Jul 17, 2005, 5:45:21 PM7/17/05

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Hi all....

Ever since I was in school ---many years ago--- I have always
used the word "AN" before "HISTORICAL" or "HYSTERICAL" (as the case
may be). "An historic event", for example. Not ALL "h" words get the
"an", like "a hug", is OK. It seems "HI" and/or "HY" words get it.
Again, if I recall, that was part of the rule.

Lately, I've begun to hear TV folks use "A" where I use "AN".
"A historic event". Is this a change in the rules? Have I been wrong
all these years?

Finally.....just what IS the rule? If, indeed, there is one.

Thanks...
Adrian

Mike Lyle

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Jul 17, 2005, 5:53:24 PM7/17/05

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The rule to follow is always to use "a" if the "h" is sounded. I find
it difficult to follow this rule, but it's sensible: there was never
a good reason to do it the way you and I were taught.

--
Mike.

Harvey Van Sickle

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Jul 17, 2005, 6:01:31 PM7/17/05

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On 17 Jul 2005, askuiper wrote

The general practice is that if the "h" is sounded, one uses "a", and
if it's not sounded it's "an".

So it changes. At one time, for example, the "h" in "hotel" was not
aspirated in standard English, and the word -- pronounced "otel" --
attracted "an" (as in "an 'otel"). Once the "h" became sounded,
though, the appropriate form became "a hotel".

I'm an historian: I don't pronounced the "h" in "historian",
"historic" or "historical" -- with all of which I use "an" -- but I
*do* aspirate the letter in "history", with which I use "a".

I thus see no problem with "In his role as an historian, he wrote a
history of X".

--
Cheers, Harvey

Canada for 30 years; S England since 1982.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

meirman

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Jul 17, 2005, 7:15:03 PM7/17/05

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In alt.english.usage on Sun, 17 Jul 2005 21:45:21 GMT askuiper
<asku...@tampabay.rr.com> posted:

>
> Hi all....
>
> Ever since I was in school ---many years ago--- I have always
>used the word "AN" before "HISTORICAL" or "HYSTERICAL" (as the case
>may be). "An historic event", for example. Not ALL "h" words get the
>"an", like "a hug", is OK. It seems "HI" and/or "HY" words get it.
>Again, if I recall, that was part of the rule.
>
> Lately, I've begun to hear TV folks use "A" where I use "AN".
>"A historic event". Is this a change in the rules? Have I been wrong
>all these years?

I've used "a historical" since 1953. I pronounce the H in historical.
To do otherwise seems British to me.

>
> Finally.....just what IS the rule? If, indeed, there is one.
>
> Thanks...
> Adrian
>
>

s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
--
If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.

Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 22 years

choro-nik

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Jul 17, 2005, 8:33:26 PM7/17/05

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If you aspirate the H then you should use "a" rather than "an". History is
from Istoria meaning story. And as we all know, or should know, history is
nothing but a story, a fable.

So if you want to sound knowledgeable (my foot !!!) you say "An history
book" just to show everybody that you are aware of the etymology of the
word.

FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!!
--
choro-nik
********

"askuiper" <asku...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vsjld1hnjlrio933s...@4ax.com...

choro-nik

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Jul 17, 2005, 8:34:50 PM7/17/05

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So, you write fables, then?
--
choro-nik
********

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9696EA77...@62.253.170.163...

Kung Fu Master Qui Chang Dobey

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Jul 17, 2005, 8:49:53 PM7/17/05

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choro-nik wrote:
> If you aspirate the H then

some one is doing the Heimlich maneuver right!!!

you should use "a" rather than "an".

really however you want to breathe at that point is okay...

History is
> from Istoria meaning story.

they are marching to Istoria? Istoria! Istoria!

And as we all know, or should know, history is
> nothing but a story, a fable.
>
> So if you want to sound knowledgeable (my foot !!!) you say "An history
> book" just to show everybody that you are aware of the etymology of the
> word.

and so, shall you join me at An Happy Hermans?
>
> FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!!

well at least you got that part right.

JPG

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Jul 18, 2005, 6:37:27 AM7/18/05

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Where the stress is not on the first syllable of a word beginning with a sounded
'h', 'an' is the popular preferred choice. This is simply because it is easier
to say 'an historical' than 'a historical'.

I don't know if any 'authority' (OED, Fowler, "The Times" letters pages) on the
language prescribes a preferred method.

JPG

Mike Lyle

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Jul 18, 2005, 8:16:04 AM7/18/05

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_The Oxford Guide to English Usage_ and _the Guardian Style Guide_
both say we should use "a". _The Times_ style guide says "an". I
agree with the Oxford comment, "The older usage was not to pronounce
_h_ and to write _an_ , but this is now almost obsolete."

I'm not at all convinced that the older custom is "the popular
preferred choice", at least among those who generally pronounce their
initial aitches. But a quick Ggl on UK sites shows 16300 "an
historian" and 43700 "a historian": Ggl is not a valid sample, of
course, but I see that several BBC sites on the first page are on
your side with "an", while only one BBC site is on the first page for
"a": that's certainly good evidence. There's one Times Online example
of "a" in the first ten, despite their style guide.

--
Mike.