up the spout - George Orwell

[Tom P]

"His manner conveyed to the passers-by - at least, he hoped it did -
that if he wore no overcoat it was from pure caprice. His overcoat was
up the spout for fifteen shillings, as a matter of fact".

George Orwell, Keep the Aspidistra Flying, chapter II.

From the context, it would seem that "up the spout" means that he has
had to pawn his overcoat. However, I never heard this usage before.

Comments?

[Dr Peter Young]

> Comments?

http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/brewers/up-spout.html

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[John Dean]

Dr Peter Young wrote:
> On 9 May 2011 Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>
>> "His manner conveyed to the passers-by - at least, he hoped it did -
>> that if he wore no overcoat it was from pure caprice. His overcoat
>> was up the spout for fifteen shillings, as a matter of fact".
>
>> George Orwell, Keep the Aspidistra Flying, chapter II.
>
>> From the context, it would seem that "up the spout" means that he
>> has had to pawn his overcoat. However, I never heard this usage
>> before.
>
>> Comments?
>
> http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/brewers/up-spout.html
>
> Peter.

And OED, 200 years old:

Spout
...
4. a. A lift formerly in use in pawnbrokers' shops, up which the articles
pawned were taken for storage. Also transf., a pawnshop.
1834 W. H. Ainsworth Rookwood II. iii. v. 345 To the spout with the
sneezers in grand array. 1837 Dickens Pickw. xlii, Spout-dear
relation-uncle Tom. 1855 Gentl. Mag. Oct. 446 Mr. Hull,
pawnbroker,+committed suicide+by hanging himself within his 'spout'. 1859
Sala Tw. round Clock (1861) 286 The half-pence rattle, shillings are tested,
huge bundles rumble down the spout. 1866 Howells Venetian Life 108 Instead
of many pawnbrokers' shops there is one large municipal spout.

b. Hence to put (or shove) up the spout, to pawn. up the spout, pawned,
pledged; also fig., in a bad way, in a hopeless condition, out of the
question.
1812 J. H. Vaux Flash Dict. s.v., To pledge any property at a
pawnbroker's is termed+shoving it up the spout. 1848 Thackeray Van. Fair
xxx, Please to put that up the spout, ma'am, with my pins, and rings, and
watch and chain, and things. 1886 D. C. Murray Cynic Fortune vii, I haven't
a suit of clothes fit to go in; even my wig and gown are up the spout
together. 1829 P. Egan Boxiana 2nd Ser. II. 351 At the expiration of
thirty-five minutes, and seventeen rounds, the flue faker acknowledged he
was 'up the spout'. 1846 Swell's Night Guide 64 And when she saw all hope
was up the spout, She spouted everything a spout would take. 1853 Dods
Early Lett. (1910) 35 The fact is, Germany is up the spout, and consequently
a damper is thrown over my hopes for next summer. 1854 A. E. Baker
Northampt. Gloss., 'He's up the spout.' A phrase applied to a person in a
state of bankruptcy. 1857 Trollope Three Clerks xviii, I shall be up the
spout altogether if you don't do something to help me. 1864 I Small House
at Allington xxxvi, He was regularly up the spout with accommodation bills.

--
John Dean
Oxford

[Tom P]

Interesting. It would seem to be obsolete usage? Nowadays it simply
means gone awry.

[Dr Peter Young]

Or pregnant.

[John Dean]

Dr Peter Young wrote:
> On 9 May 2011 Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>
>> On 05/09/2011 01:01 PM, John Dean wrote:
>>> Dr Peter Young wrote:
>>>> On 9 May 2011 Tom P<wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "His manner conveyed to the passers-by - at least, he hoped it
>>>>> did - that if he wore no overcoat it was from pure caprice. His
>>>>> overcoat was up the spout for fifteen shillings, as a matter of
>>>>> fact".
>>>>
>>>>> George Orwell, Keep the Aspidistra Flying, chapter II.
>>>>
>>>>> From the context, it would seem that "up the spout" means that
>>>>> he has had to pawn his overcoat. However, I never heard this usage
>>>>> before.
>>>>
>>>>> Comments?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/brewers/up-spout.html
>>>>
>>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> And OED, 200 years old:
>>>
>>> Spout
>>> ...
>>>

>>> b. Hence to put (or shove) up the spout, to pawn. up the spout,
>>> pawned, pledged; also fig., in a bad way, in a hopeless condition,
>>> out of the question.
>

>> Interesting. It would seem to be obsolete usage? Nowadays it simply
>> means gone awry.
>
> Or pregnant.
>

.
Or with a live round in the chamber
--
John Dean
Oxford

[Ian Jackson]

In message <5f5eafd05...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Dr Peter Young
<pny...@ormail.co.uk> writes

Pregnant is surely "up the duff"?

I understand "up the spout" as "gone faulty", "not functioning
correctly" or "being in trouble" (but not really where "in trouble" is a
euphemism for being pregnant).

I haven't heard or used "up the spout" for many, many years.
--
Ian

[John Dean]

That's one of them. Also 'up the stick' in Lancs. Also 'up the pole' and 'up
the way'

But OED has
c. to put (someone) up the spout: to make pregnant (esp. out of wedlock);
also simply up the spout, in the womb; pregnant. Cf. up the pole s.v. pole
n.1 1b. slang.

--
John Dean
Oxford

[Dr Peter Young]

On 10 May 2011 "John Dean" <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:

> Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message <5f5eafd05...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Dr Peter Young
>> <pny...@ormail.co.uk> writes
>>> On 9 May 2011 Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/09/2011 01:01 PM, John Dean wrote:
>>>>> Dr Peter Young wrote:

[snip]

>>>> Interesting. It would seem to be obsolete usage? Nowadays it simply
>>>> means gone awry.
>>>
>>> Or pregnant.
>>>
>> Pregnant is surely "up the duff"?

> That's one of them. Also 'up the stick' in Lancs. Also 'up the pole' and 'up
> the way'

Or in the Forest of Dean, " 'er do be like it".

> But OED has
> c. to put (someone) up the spout: to make pregnant (esp. out of wedlock);
> also simply up the spout, in the womb; pregnant. Cf. up the pole s.v. pole
> n.1 1b. slang.

Peter.