Dialect vs. Accent
Martha Handberg Mikkelsen
As far as I have been taught:
Dialect (sometimes sociolect) is the language variety of a group of people.
It's defined geographically and/or socially and it applies to grammar, lexis
and pronounciation.
Accent only applies to pronounciation. Also when a French person speaks
English etc.
Usually people only really think of "accent" when they say "dialect", but
sometimes they're right. Like when you notice that you're speaking to a
Scotsman when he says "wee". That his dialect giving him away, not his
accent. But when he says rrrrosebysh instead of rosebush it's his accent
that you notice.
Am I making any sense at all?
Martha
>
> I am American, and I have a new South African friend. During our first
meeting,
> conversation turned toward the difference between accents and dialects.
>
> As an actor, I was taught that a "dialect" referred to different patterns
of
> speech within the same language - for example, in English, there are
(among
> others), Scottish, British, American and Australian dialects. However, an
> "accent" is a holdover from one language to another - for example, a
native
> Spanish speaker would speak English with a Spanish accent.
>
> I maintain that my friend speaks English with a South African dialect
(English
> is his first language), but he says my definitions are mixed up. What are
the
> thoughts of this esteemed group on the difference between dialects and
accents?
>
> Thanks for your input!
> Best, Amy :)
M.J.Powell
Handberg Mikkelsen <mart...@gadefejer.dk> writes
>Hello,
>
>As far as I have been taught:
>
>Dialect (sometimes sociolect) is the language variety of a group of people.
>It's defined geographically and/or socially and it applies to grammar, lexis
>and pronounciation.
>
>Accent only applies to pronounciation. Also when a French person speaks
>English etc.
>
>Usually people only really think of "accent" when they say "dialect", but
>sometimes they're right. Like when you notice that you're speaking to a
>Scotsman when he says "wee". That his dialect giving him away, not his
>accent. But when he says rrrrosebysh instead of rosebush it's his accent
>that you notice.
>Am I making any sense at all?
Yes, I agree with you. I speak English with a Welsh accent, but when I
use Welsh idioms ( not 'Look you') I relapse into dialect.
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
Mason Barge
<mart...@gadefejer.dk> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>As far as I have been taught:
>
>Dialect (sometimes sociolect) is the language variety of a group of people.
>It's defined geographically and/or socially and it applies to grammar, lexis
>and pronounciation.
>
>Accent only applies to pronounciation. Also when a French person speaks
>English etc.
>
>Usually people only really think of "accent" when they say "dialect", but
>sometimes they're right. Like when you notice that you're speaking to a
>Scotsman when he says "wee". That his dialect giving him away, not his
>accent. But when he says rrrrosebysh instead of rosebush it's his accent
>that you notice.
>Am I making any sense at all?
>
>Martha
Sure, I agree completely. In fact, generally, a "dialect" that has
very few changes (usually some peculiar idioms, such as "y'all" or
"youse") will be called an "accent" by most people, if the speaker is
generally understood without much trouble. Such as the ability of
someone with a strong Brooklyn accent to practice law in Mississipi.
What's a "yoot"?
>>
>> I am American, and I have a new South African friend. During our first
>meeting,
>> conversation turned toward the difference between accents and dialects.
>>
>> As an actor, I was taught that a "dialect" referred to different patterns
>of
>> speech within the same language - for example, in English, there are
>(among
>> others), Scottish, British, American and Australian dialects. However, an
>> "accent" is a holdover from one language to another - for example, a
>native
>> Spanish speaker would speak English with a Spanish accent.
>>
>> I maintain that my friend speaks English with a South African dialect
>(English
>> is his first language), but he says my definitions are mixed up. What are
>the
>> thoughts of this esteemed group on the difference between dialects and
>accents?
>>
>> Thanks for your input!
>> Best, Amy :)
>
--
Mason Barge
"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Martha Handberg Mikkelsen
speaking his native tongue? Say a German person speaking English. Suppose he
makes a sentence that is incorrect both in grammar and pronounciation but
the grammar is perfect German. Wouldn't that in this definition be dialect?
I would never say "he speaks English with a German dialect".
Does a situation like that occur so rarely that I really shouldn't have
brought it up...?
Dr Robin Bignall
<mart...@gadefejer.dk> wrote:
>> >
>> Sure, I agree completely. In fact, generally, a "dialect" that has
>> very few changes (usually some peculiar idioms, such as "y'all" or
>> "youse") will be called an "accent" by most people, if the speaker is
>> generally understood without much trouble. Such as the ability of
>> someone with a strong Brooklyn accent to practice law in Mississipi.
>
[..]
>I was just wondering; Does "dialect" apply to a person if that person is not
>speaking his native tongue? Say a German person speaking English. Suppose he
>makes a sentence that is incorrect both in grammar and pronounciation but
>the grammar is perfect German. Wouldn't that in this definition be dialect?
>I would never say "he speaks English with a German dialect".
>Does a situation like that occur so rarely that I really shouldn't have
>brought it up...?
>
It's a good question. I've sometimes heard German speakers say, for
instance, "I am here since Friday", which is probably a direct
translation into English of a valid construction in German, but which
is not what a native speaker would say. The speaker wants to say that
he arrived last Friday and is still here. We would say "I have been
here since Friday" or something like that.
No native speaker of English would fail to understand the sentence,
unless he was being awkward. I'd be interested in knowing whether that
sort of thing is called a dialect.
--
wrmst rgrds
RB...(docrobi...@ntlworld.com)
Mason Barge
<mart...@gadefejer.dk> wrote:
>I was just wondering; Does "dialect" apply to a person if that person is not
>speaking his native tongue? Say a German person speaking English. Suppose he
>makes a sentence that is incorrect both in grammar and pronounciation but
>the grammar is perfect German. Wouldn't that in this definition be dialect?
>I would never say "he speaks English with a German dialect".
>Does a situation like that occur so rarely that I really shouldn't have
>brought it up...?
No, that is simply a grammatical error. However, if a large community
of people arises that commits the same error, and transmits such
errors to its children, the speech pattern might become a dialect.
The huge Yiddish-speaking population of New York certainly created a
dialect.
Polar
I'm 99-44/100% sure it is NOT a dialect; merely, as you point
out, a direct translation. Same thing has been heard in other
(European) languages, e.g. "Je suis la depuis Jeudi".
--
Polar
Mark Wallace
I wouldn't call it so; it's an understandable error. If the speaker
knew how to say what he meant, he would say it correctly; 'not
knowing English' could hardly be called a dialect.
--
Mark Wallace
-----------------------------------------------------
Doctor Charles.
You can trust him.
http://humorpages.virtualave.net/m-pages/doc01.htm
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