Old Question: Seat not occupied? How to ask correctly?
Udo Barwenczik
probably this question has been asked a 100 times before:
If you're on a bus/train: How to ask the other passengers if a seat is
unoccupied?
I've read that in England you ask "Is that seat taken?" Is this
correct? Only in England or in the USA too?
In some English/German dictionaries you can read "Is this seat free?"
but some other books say that this is totally wrong.
So what's the correct way of asking nowadays?
---
Udo Barwenczik
Duisburg, Germany
Remove .NO_SPAM from my address to reply via e-mail.
---
Ellen Mizzell
> Hello,
>
> probably this question has been asked a 100 times before:
>
> If you're on a bus/train: How to ask the other passengers if a seat is
> unoccupied?
> I've read that in England you ask "Is that seat taken?" Is this
> correct? Only in England or in the USA too?
> In some English/German dictionaries you can read "Is this seat free?"
> but some other books say that this is totally wrong.
>
> So what's the correct way of asking nowadays?
>
Either of the above. I'd say, "Is anyone sitting here?"
--
Ellen Mizzell
Tom Tobin
<kjihOdwjRP0E-pn2-xP1kGtHnYrZ7@obelix>...
> Hello,
>
> probably this question has been asked a 100 times before:
>
> If you're on a bus/train: How to ask the other passengers if a seat is
> unoccupied?
> I've read that in England you ask "Is that seat taken?" Is this
> correct? Only in England or in the USA too?
> In some English/German dictionaries you can read "Is this seat free?"
> but some other books say that this is totally wrong.
>
> So what's the correct way of asking nowadays?
"Is this seat free?" is not totally wrong. But if the answer is:
"Yes." - everyone in the carriage may try to sit in it, hoping for
a refund on their ticket.
Whatever you do, don't point at the empty seat and ask:
"Is anyone sitting in that seat?"
Unless, of course, you want 2 or 3 extra seats to lie down.
In that case, it will probably help if you: point at the seat in a
dramatic manner, freeze in that position, look at the seat with a
horrified, staring expression and continue to point while everyone
moves away. Some twitching and drooling would probably speed up
the process.
Regards,
Tom.
Ellen Mizzell
I was once involved in a role play (don't ask) in which the object
was to enter a waiting room, sit down next to someone else, and in
some way get that other person to vacate his/her seat. I came joint
first just by scratching my head.
(The other winner had it easy. The person she had to get to leave
was actually my ex. She just walked up to him and said, "Can I
buy you a drink, Chris?")
--
Ellen Mizzell
Tom Tobin
<774ocs$1...@tictac.demon.co.uk>...
<snipped>
> I was once involved in a role play (don't ask) in which the object
> was to enter a waiting room, sit down next to someone else, and in
> some way get that other person to vacate his/her seat. I came joint
> first just by scratching my head.
>
> (The other winner had it easy. The person she had to get to leave
> was actually my ex. She just walked up to him and said, "Can I
> buy you a drink, Chris?")
It's odd, sometimes, what works.
I knew someone who used to clear a huge space every morning
on the tube (in London) - just by looking people in the eye,
smiling and saying: "What a lovely morning!" in a really
friendly way.
When I tried it I ended up with the guy doing the twitching
and drooling!
Regards,
Tom.
Udo Barwenczik
Mizzell) wrote:
> Either of the above. I'd say, "Is anyone sitting here?"
Ok, this sounds more informal, but if I understand Tom's reply right
it depends on the way you ask :-)
Udo Barwenczik
> I knew someone who used to clear a huge space every morning
> on the tube (in London) - just by looking people in the eye,
> smiling and saying: "What a lovely morning!" in a really
> friendly way.
I believe that. In public transport nobody expects friendlyness.
Normally most people have a "public transportation gaze" (including
me). This gaze is normally fixed to a distant point. Any other
behaviour is often considered as an annoyance.
Udo Barwenczik
> "Is this seat free?" is not totally wrong. But if the answer is:
> "Yes." - everyone in the carriage may try to sit in it, hoping for
> a refund on their ticket.
Some ;-) or :-> missing here?!
If "free" in this case means "no transportation charge has to be
payed" then it's definitley not what I wanted to say.
> Whatever you do, don't point at the empty seat and ask:
> "Is anyone sitting in that seat?"
>
> Unless, of course, you want 2 or 3 extra seats to lie down.
> In that case, it will probably help if you: point at the seat in a
> dramatic manner, freeze in that position, look at the seat with a
> horrified, staring expression and continue to point while everyone
> moves away. Some twitching and drooling would probably speed up
> the process.
When travelling this can be pretty useful sometimes. Some alcohol
odour and rolling eyeballs can be helpful too.
afar...@trump.net.au
ud...@mail.rhein-ruhr.NO_SPAM.de wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:47:41, "Tom Tobin" <t...@acara.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I knew someone who used to clear a huge space every morning
> > on the tube (in London) - just by looking people in the eye,
> > smiling and saying: "What a lovely morning!" in a really
> > friendly way.
>
> I believe that. In public transport nobody expects friendlyness.
> Normally most people have a "public transportation gaze" (including
> me). This gaze is normally fixed to a distant point. Any other
> behaviour is often considered as an annoyance.
>
Yes, and for obvious reasons in the USA, England and parts of the Continent;
however, there are rather different conventions about appropriate contact in
Australia's large cities -- especially Sydney -- and a hierarchy of
conventions about what may and may not be said; for how long it may be said;
and then what happens afterwards. For instance, at a Sydney bus stop it would
be by no means unusual to speak to the other people there and, depending on
decisions about safety, desirability and mutual affinity, launch into the
sort of intimate conversation about husbands/wives/children and the like,
that would amaze and appall your average Pom. However, all sorts of unstated
controls prevail; for instance : upon boarding the bus it would be usual for
the two parties to nod a farewell and sit separately. The party who insisted
upon following the other to the same seat with the intention of continuing
these happy intimacies, would be regarded as importunate and to be watched.
Of course, Australia is really a working class culture that has made good,
which is why we have difficulty understanding notions of appropriate
hierarchy in relationships and have this rather pathetic need to (as Mr
Quentin Crisp said in a general way) not keep up with the Joneses, but to
drag them down to our level.
AF.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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Ellen Mizzell
> On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:24:46, $news1$@nospam.demon.co.uk (Ellen
> Mizzell) wrote:
>
>
> > Either of the above. I'd say, "Is anyone sitting here?"
>
> Ok, this sounds more informal, but if I understand Tom's reply right
> it depends on the way you ask :-)
>
:-)
--
Ellen Mizzell
Tom Tobin
> On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:28:05, "Tom Tobin" <t...@acara.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > "Is this seat free?" is not totally wrong. But if the answer is:
> > "Yes." - everyone in the carriage may try to sit in it, hoping for
> > a refund on their ticket.
>
> Some ;-) or :-> missing here?!
But I have an aversion to using smileys. I know they're a disk space
and bandwidth saver. But I think: "It's a young person's thing."
Or: "If Thomas Paine didn't need them - why should I?"
Mostly I think: "Do the words convey my meaning? No. Then I
must find a better way to say what I mean."
(Or is it "mean what I say"?-)
> If "free" in this case means "no transportation charge has to be
> payed" then it's definitley not what I wanted to say.
"Free" is a word that needs to be used with care. It has so many
meanings and "layers" of meaning.
>
<snip>
>
> When travelling this can be pretty useful sometimes. Some alcohol
> odour and rolling eyeballs can be helpful too.
No smiley! How do you feel about them? |:-}
Regards,
Tom.
Udo Barwenczik
> > Some ;-) or :-> missing here?!
> Sorry, it would probably have been ;-)
> But I have an aversion to using smileys. I know they're a disk space
> and bandwidth saver. But I think: "It's a young person's thing."
Well, I'm not *that* old that I don't want to use smileys at all.
> Or: "If Thomas Paine didn't need them - why should I?"
According to my encyclopedia Thomas Paine died 1809. Some things might
have changed a little since then ...
> Mostly I think: "Do the words convey my meaning? No. Then I
> must find a better way to say what I mean."
> (Or is it "mean what I say"?-)
That's the right attidude in a news group like this. Actually I got
the meaning of your answer without smileys. When thinking about an
answer I came up with the good old smileys.
> > When travelling this can be pretty useful sometimes. Some alcohol
> > odour and rolling eyeballs can be helpful too.
> No smiley! How do you feel about them? |:-}
Mostly I'm reading newsgroups that deal with operating systems, most
of these groups are in English. People there like quick and short
statements. Non native English speakers (like me) should also
understand information (and sarcasm as well) given there. Smileys
often help. (Or possibly most operating system newsgroup readers are
so young that using smileys is ok?)
I use them sometimes. When writing I'm so sure that everyone
understands my jokes and sarcasm that I'm often surprised about the
answers I get. Or as someone said: "You can't see the writer's smile
in a written text."
Udo Barwenczik
Mizzell) wrote:
> :-)
Watch the our changed topic about smileys.
Udo Barwenczik
> Yes, and for obvious reasons in the USA, England and parts of the Continent;
> however, there are rather different conventions about appropriate contact in
> Australia's large cities -- especially Sydney -- and a hierarchy of
Obvious reasons? I don't know Australia at all but I though that some
things are very much the same in all big cities around the world?
[interesting information deleted]
> and then what happens afterwards. For instance, at a Sydney bus stop
> it would be by no means unusual to speak to the other people there
> and, depending on decisions about safety, desirability and mutual
> affinity, launch into the sort of intimate conversation about
> husbands/wives/children and the like,
This is interesting. I always was a bit envious of people who could
start a conversion like this.
> controls prevail; for instance : upon boarding the bus it would be usual for
> the two parties to nod a farewell and sit separately. The party who insisted
I think this is the way I would do it too.
> Of course, Australia is really a working class culture that has made good,
> which is why we have difficulty understanding notions of appropriate
> hierarchy in relationships and have this rather pathetic need to (as Mr
> Quentin Crisp said in a general way) not keep up with the Joneses, but to
> drag them down to our level.
Sorry, I didn't get that.
By the way: How do you ask the question of our subject in Australia?
Ysabel Howard
seat is by definition free. Whoever is nearest sits in it. Stray
sociological fact: some prefer to stand.
Two variations.
1. The seat occupied not by a person but by belongings - rucksack, coat,
briefcase. "May I sit down, please?" you say, preferably with a light
laugh. "Did you buy your briefcase a ticket?" is to be reserved for
reluctance to remove said possessions.
2. In self-service restaurants where often one or two member(s) of a
party does/do the queuing while the rest sit themselves down, bags/coats
indicating a number of people but exactly how many not possible to guess.
"Is anyone sitting here?"
Udo Barwenczik wrote in message ...
>Hello,
>
>probably this question has been asked a 100 times before:
>
>If you're on a bus/train: How to ask the other passengers if a seat is
>unoccupied?
>I've read that in England you ask "Is that seat taken?" Is this
>correct? Only in England or in the USA too?
>In some English/German dictionaries you can read "Is this seat free?"
>but some other books say that this is totally wrong.
>
>So what's the correct way of asking nowadays?
>
Ellen Mizzell
> On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:44:03, $news1$@nospam.demon.co.uk (Ellen
> Mizzell) wrote:
>
> > :-)
>
> Watch the our changed topic about smileys.
>
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
etc
--
Ellen Mizzell
JUST AN H
>
>probably this question has been asked a 100 times before:
>
>If you're on a bus/train: How to ask the other passengers if a seat is
>unoccupied?
>I've read that in England you ask "Is that seat taken?" Is this
>correct? Only in England or in the USA too?
>In some English/German dictionaries you can read "Is this seat free?"
>but some other books say that this is totally wrong.
>
>So what's the correct way of asking nowadays?
>
be the most sensible question, but only on some mode of transportation, or in a
theater .... but never at a table in a restaurant.
If you were to point at a vacant seat and ask, "Is anyone sitting here?"
the person asked might rightfully look at the empty seat and then up at you as
though you were an idiot and think "obviously not" before saying, "I'm sorry,
this seat's taken."
I don't know about northern Germany, but in Bavaria and in Austria, people
ask, "Is this seat free?" even at tables in restaurants. If the person nods,
then you sit down.
One thing I'll never forget is a visit I made to my parents in Vienna a
few years ago. My German mother and I were on a train from Vienna to Munich
and decided to go to the dining car for something to eat. The car was crowded,
but a man and a woman were seated at a table for four. They were Americans,
and when my mother asked, "Are zese seats free?" the man mumbled,
uncomfortably, "Ah, we're sitting here."
"Und so shall ve stand while ve wait for you to finish?" Mama asked.
"Uh, I guess you can sit down," the man said, somewhat uneasily. Without
further ado, Mama set her purse down on the table and we sat down and began to
chat. However, the Americans were totally at odds with this. They'd obviously
been in the middle of a discussion and now, the woman picked at her beads and
stared wistfully and silently out the window, as though we were such an
unwelcome intrusion, while the man began to interrupt Mama & me with
questions.
"It's not necessary to start a conversation vis somebody chust because zey
sit down next to you," Mama said. At that, the man looked at her with
amazement, but only for a second. Within moments, there were two very
different conversations going on at that table.
J.
Adrian Clark
such fun with the help of a little alcoholic stimulation. In crowded
pubs and cafes, it can get very confusing. The two most common versions
are "Is this seat free?" and "Is this seat taken?".
Say you get a "yes" in response. Did the other person mishear your
question? Yes, the seat is free, or yes, the seat is taken? It's a
minefield out there, folks.
And what about the third option - "Is there anyone sitting here?" Bad
move - you just leave yourself open for annoying smartarses like me, who
peer carefully at the seat before saying "Nope; can't see anyone".
Adrian
--
____________________________________________
http://www.zappa.u-net.com/legends/
Technology and shite in perfect harmony
____________________________________________
Udo Barwenczik
wrote:
<snip>
> pubs and cafes, it can get very confusing. The two most common versions
> are "Is this seat free?" and "Is this seat taken?".
>
> Say you get a "yes" in response. Did the other person mishear your
> question? Yes, the seat is free, or yes, the seat is taken? It's a
> minefield out there, folks.
Two different ways of asking can cause lots of confusion. Language is
often dangerous!
I'm still looking for up-to-date books that deal with such everyday
situations more deeply.
> And what about the third option - "Is there anyone sitting here?" Bad
> move - you just leave yourself open for annoying smartarses like me, who
> peer carefully at the seat before saying "Nope; can't see anyone".
Yeah, you find "clever" people like that everywhere.
Udo Barwenczik
<postm...@sarat.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In my journey from hell to and from work on the London Underground an empty
> seat is by definition free. Whoever is nearest sits in it. Stray
> sociological fact: some prefer to stand.
I see, mass transportation is a special case, I never thought of
asking when travelling by tube. But on a train with compartments
asking is the best way to do I think.
> Two variations.
> 1. The seat occupied not by a person but by belongings - rucksack, coat,
> briefcase. "May I sit down, please?" you say, preferably with a light
> laugh. "Did you buy your briefcase a ticket?" is to be reserved for
> reluctance to remove said possessions.
Ok, I see.
> 2. In self-service restaurants where often one or two member(s) of a
> party does/do the queuing while the rest sit themselves down, bags/coats
> indicating a number of people but exactly how many not possible to guess.
> "Is anyone sitting here?"
Good example, thank you.
Udo Barwenczik
> That would depend on where you are. In the States, "Is this seat taken?" would
> be the most sensible question, but only on some mode of transportation, or in a
> theater .... but never at a table in a restaurant.
A colleague of mine said that in the States "is this seat free" is
commonly used and that's why I thought that "is this seat taken" is
the more formal British way. So this seems to be not true.
> If you were to point at a vacant seat and ask, "Is anyone sitting here?"
> the person asked might rightfully look at the empty seat and then up at you as
> though you were an idiot and think "obviously not" before saying, "I'm sorry,
> this seat's taken."
> I don't know about northern Germany, but in Bavaria and in Austria, people
> ask, "Is this seat free?" even at tables in restaurants. If the person nods,
> then you sit down.
That's true for the rest of Germany too. In "normal" restaurants you
are not directed to a table by the waiter. You have to find a seat
yourself. If the restaurant is very crowded you have to ask people
already sitting there if you can sit at their table. Of course this is
a bit of an intrusion but it's caused by the situation and everyone
will understand it.
The word "free" (frei) in German is commonly used when asking for a
vacant seat but "taken" (besetzt) is also possible.
> One thing I'll never forget is a visit I made to my parents in Vienna a
> few years ago. My German mother and I were on a train from Vienna to Munich
> and decided to go to the dining car for something to eat. The car was crowded,
> but a man and a woman were seated at a table for four. They were Americans,
> and when my mother asked, "Are zese seats free?" the man mumbled,
> uncomfortably, "Ah, we're sitting here."
>
> "Und so shall ve stand while ve wait for you to finish?" Mama asked.
>
> "Uh, I guess you can sit down," the man said, somewhat uneasily. Without
> further ado, Mama set her purse down on the table and we sat down and began to
> chat. However, the Americans were totally at odds with this. They'd obviously
> been in the middle of a discussion and now, the woman picked at her beads and
> stared wistfully and silently out the window, as though we were such an
> unwelcome intrusion, while the man began to interrupt Mama & me with
> questions.
>
> "It's not necessary to start a conversation vis somebody chust because zey
> sit down next to you," Mama said. At that, the man looked at her with
> amazement, but only for a second. Within moments, there were two very
> different conversations going on at that table.
A crowded dining car is a situation where you have to ask for a seat
if you don't want to starve. Your mother's question was right. The two
Americans were annoyed but the situation was professionally cleared by
your mother.
jan...@mailexcite.com
>
> >
> That would depend on where you are. In the States, "Is this seat taken?" would
> be the most sensible question, but only on some mode of transportation, or in a
> theater .... but never at a table in a restaurant.
>
>
I could sit at their table in the U.S.: at a squat and gobble
or in a brewery.
Charles Riggs
That very much depends upon where in the States you are. In New York
City for example, it is very ordinary to take a restaurant seat
opposite a stranger - not for dinner perhaps but the restaurants are
often so crowded for the lunch and breakfast sittings that this is
done all the time and sometimes the person won't ask permission first
either!
Charles
Opinicus
>> move - you just leave yourself open for annoying smartarses like me, who
>> peer carefully at the seat before saying "Nope; can't see anyone".
>Yeah, you find "clever" people like that everywhere.
pinscher. You can have any seat you like.
Bob
Istanbul
---
To reply by email, dot the dash in doruk-net.
Adrian Clark
> There's a fourth option: Wear dark glasses and travel with a doberman
> pinscher. You can have any seat you like.
Or wear an unshaven face and carry a guitar. Older people give me a wide
berth. They probably thing I'm some sort of drug addict or (god forbid!)
a POP MUSICIAN!
"Oh yes, I seem to remember their [the Beatles'] off-key caterwauling on
the old Sullivan show. What was Ed thinking?" - Montgomery Burns
Yowie
<3698EAA8...@mailexcite.com>...
> I can think of only two instances where I would ask strangers if
> I could sit at their table in the U.S.: at a squat and gobble
> or in a brewery.
>
place where the food is of dubious quality, the main ingredients generally
being fat and salt, but the prices are reasonable and the delivery of said
food almost instantaneous? Often with the "all you can eat" or "bottomless
cup" options? Usually found at the cheaper end of town, and at truck-stops?
If so, then a common way of asking whether the seat is available for
occupation is to hold the back of the chair, and raise your eyebrows at the
person to whom you are asking the question. If that person nods (usually
only the slightest of nods), then you may sit down. The person or persons
originally at the table will signal their willingness to converse by making
eye contact and smiling. However, they are usually busy reading their
paper, or eating their food with the most amazing speed and sound effects.
These are the places that long-haul buses stop. They are commonly called
"chew 'n' spews" because the event which occurs usually within half an hour
of resuming the journey after eating at one of these places. I of course
learnt the hard way, and now carry my own food on my cross-country bus
trips.
Vicky
jan...@mailexcite.com
>
>
> >
> Is a "squat and gobble" like the Australian "chew 'n' spew", meaning a
> place where the food is of dubious quality, the main ingredients generally
> being fat and salt, but the prices are reasonable and the delivery of said
> food almost instantaneous?
Sort of. It's a "food court." There are a bunch of fast food
booths in a circle around a cluster of little tables. Patrons
stand in line to order their food at the booths and then search
desperately for a place to eat it. Since sharing tables is not
very common in the U.S., patrons are often forced to squat and
gobble.