Heat stopped play
Dr Robin Bignall
my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears to
be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable price,
is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient water
evaporation or small portable units).
We don't have screen doors, either.
Madness!
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England
Don Aitken
<docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
>my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
>It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
>air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears to
>be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
>Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable price,
>is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
>the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient water
>evaporation or small portable units).
>We don't have screen doors, either.
>Madness!
How much would you want to pay for an installation you might use for
two or three weeks every five years or so?
--
Don Aitken
rewboss
f1g5jv0o140qmsb4p...@4ax.com...
> It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
> my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
> It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
> air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears
to
> be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
> Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable
price,
> is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
> the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient
water
> evaporation or small portable units).
> We don't have screen doors, either.
> Madness!
Well, *normally*, the weather in northern and central Europe is so mild that
we don't *need* air conditioning.
Actually, air conditioning brings a few small risks with it. Stepping out of
an air-conditioned room into 100 degrees of humid weather can be a shock to
the system, and leave you more susceptible to colds and other minor
ailments. Drink plenty (but avoid alcohol), keep to the shade, and don't eat
ice cream -- it actually raises your body temperature.
By the way, I may be wrong, but I've heard that few people in San Fransisco
bother with air conditioning. The climate is extremely mild, and in August
it can actually get quite cold and foggy, which always comes as a shock to
tourists. Apparently, it's something to do with air currents out in the bay.
Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
Bruce Tober
<don-a...@freeuk.com> on Thu, 7 Aug 2003 wrote:
#
>How much would you want to pay for an installation you might use for
>two or three weeks every five years or so?
Yep, that's about the size of it. Though this year could be a bit
different. We've already had a week or two in May and one in the past
week and now the weather guys are saying this heat could last till into
Sept.
>
--
| Bruce Tober, <t...@star-dot-star.co.uk> , <http://www.star-dot-star.co.uk> |
| UK, +44-780-374-8255 (Mobile) +44-121-553-4284 (land) |
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented rewboss broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> Actually, air conditioning brings a few small risks with it. Stepping out of
> an air-conditioned room into 100 degrees of humid weather can be a shock to
> the system, and leave you more susceptible to colds and other minor
> ailments. Drink plenty (but avoid alcohol), keep to the shade, and don't eat
> ice cream -- it actually raises your body temperature.
I beg to differ. Getting out of the heat for even a short time (a half
hour or so) is really very helpful in avoiding heat exhaustion. By the
same token, even relatively frail people can take extreme heat for short
periods. You are better off with as much air conditioning as you can
get, and even a little is better than none at all.
--
Lars Eighner -finger for geek code- eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
All the best stories in the world are but one story in reality -- the story of
escape. It is the only thing which interests us all and at all times,
how to escape. --Arthur Christopher Benson
rewboss
slrnbj642q...@pearl.io.com...
> In our last episode, <bgumc7$ses5r$1...@ID-185204.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> the lovely and talented rewboss broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
> > Actually, air conditioning brings a few small risks with it. Stepping
out of
> > an air-conditioned room into 100 degrees of humid weather can be a shock
to
> > the system, and leave you more susceptible to colds and other minor
> > ailments. Drink plenty (but avoid alcohol), keep to the shade, and don't
eat
> > ice cream -- it actually raises your body temperature.
>
> I beg to differ. Getting out of the heat for even a short time (a half
> hour or so) is really very helpful in avoiding heat exhaustion. By the
> same token, even relatively frail people can take extreme heat for short
> periods. You are better off with as much air conditioning as you can
> get, and even a little is better than none at all.
Yes, it's all pros and cons, and you have to weigh them up. You should still
avoid very sudden changes in atmospheric conditions if possible. You have
similar, but reverse, problems in winter: people get colds not because the
weather is cold, but because they overheat their houses. On the other hand,
frail and elderly people risk hypothermia if they don't heat their houses
enough.
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented rewboss broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> Yes, it's all pros and cons, and you have to weigh them up. You should still
> avoid very sudden changes in atmospheric conditions if possible. You have
> similar, but reverse, problems in winter: people get colds not because the
> weather is cold, but because they overheat their houses. On the other hand,
> frail and elderly people risk hypothermia if they don't heat their houses
> enough.
Over here we have something called "the germ theory of disease." Those
fellows say that people get colds in the winter because they gather in warm
places where they are likely to be near someone who has a cold and that
people get colds in the summer because they gather in cool places where
they are like to be near someone who has a cold. According to this
theory, colds are caused by viruses which can be spread from person
to person by tiny droplets in the air or on surfaces.
--
Lars Eighner -finger for geek code- eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
First comes the cross, then comes the cross burnings.
Mike Lyle
> In our last episode, <bgumc7$ses5r$1...@ID-185204.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> the lovely and talented rewboss broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
> > Actually, air conditioning brings a few small risks with it. Stepping out of
> > an air-conditioned room into 100 degrees of humid weather can be a shock to
> > the system, and leave you more susceptible to colds and other minor
> > ailments.
[...]
> You are better off with as much air conditioning as you can
> get, and even a little is better than none at all.
In Sa'udi when it was still a relative novelty, it was a status symbol
to have the AC set at its coldest: I found it quite unpleasant to step
out of the Jeddah swelter into somebody's fridge. Do they still do
that?
Mike.
Mike Lyle
Did anybody tell us how some threads get split into two? If so, I
missed it, and wouldn't mind being told again.
Mike.
rewboss
> In our last episode, <bgving$snb4r$1...@ID-185204.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> the lovely and talented rewboss broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
> > Yes, it's all pros and cons, and you have to weigh them up. You should
still
> > avoid very sudden changes in atmospheric conditions if possible. You
have
> > similar, but reverse, problems in winter: people get colds not because
the
> > weather is cold, but because they overheat their houses. On the other
hand,
> > frail and elderly people risk hypothermia if they don't heat their
houses
> > enough.
>
> Over here we have something called "the germ theory of disease." Those
> fellows say that people get colds in the winter because they gather in
warm
> places where they are likely to be near someone who has a cold and that
> people get colds in the summer because they gather in cool places where
> they are like to be near someone who has a cold. According to this
> theory, colds are caused by viruses which can be spread from person
> to person by tiny droplets in the air or on surfaces.
The cold virus does exist. Nevertheless, it is fairly well known that
subjecting your body to sudden changes of temperature -- particularly from
warm to cold -- lowers your resistance to the cold virus. The incidence of
infection increases around spring and autumn in this part of the world, when
the climate is particularly changeable.
What really gives the cold virus a chance to take hold is for the host to be
wet and cold at the same time.[*] The great mathmatician Bool -- without
whose work computers as we know them wouldn't exist -- died from this.
Returning home after being caught in a sudden downpour, he caught cold. His
wife, a great believer in the then new-fangled "science" of homeopathy,
reasoned that since water had caused his cold, water would cure it. She
prescribed a regimen of cold showers, cold footbaths, and made poor Bool
wrap up in bedsheets that had been soaked in water. As a result of her
administrations, Bool's cold developed into pneumonia and he died.
[*] Curiously, this is not always the case. The practice of sitting in a
sauna or a banya before running outside and rolling around in the snow or
swimming in an ice-cold lake appears to be quite beneficial, or so claim
those who do this. There may be something about such extremes of temperature
that triggers a different response.
Peter Duncanson
>Dr Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
>f1g5jv0o140qmsb4p...@4ax.com...
>> It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
>> my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
>> It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
>> air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears
>to
>> be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
>> Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable
>price,
>> is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
>> the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient
>water
>> evaporation or small portable units).
>> We don't have screen doors, either.
>> Madness!
>
>Well, *normally*, the weather in northern and central Europe is so mild that
>we don't *need* air conditioning.
>
>Actually, air conditioning brings a few small risks with it. Stepping out of
>an air-conditioned room into 100 degrees of humid weather can be a shock to
>the system, and leave you more susceptible to colds and other minor
>ailments. Drink plenty (but avoid alcohol), keep to the shade, and don't eat
>ice cream -- it actually raises your body temperature.
A problem in the UK is that many houses are designed or modified to retain
heat (using cavity wall insulation, 4in thick mineral fibre loft insulation,
double glazing, draught excluders on doors and windows, etc.).
The effect of this is that, in summer, the indoor temperature can rise to
higher than that outside - and stay higher.
For example at 2 a.m. last night the temperature in my bedroom was 24.5C
even though outside it was 16C. And that was after running a small AC unit
for a few hours which successfully reduced the temperature in the house by a
degree or two.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from a.e.u)
Mark Browne
<bgvsab$sv4vc$1...@ID-185204.news.uni-berlin.de>, rewboss
<rew...@hotmail.com> writes
>[*] Curiously, this is not always the case. The practice of sitting in
>a sauna or a banya before running outside and rolling around in the
>snow or swimming in an ice-cold lake appears to be quite beneficial, or
>so claim those who do this. There may be something about such extremes
>of temperature that triggers a different response.
It is my belief that this is the reason that there are only six million
Finns.
--
Mark Browne
If replying by email, please use the "Reply-To" address, as the
"From" address will be rejected
Bruce Tober
<ne...@kafana.demon.co.uk> on Fri, 8 Aug 2003 wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, in message <bgvsab$sv4vc$1...@ID-185204.news.uni-
>berlin.de>, rewboss <rew...@hotmail.com> writes
>>[*] Curiously, this is not always the case. The practice of sitting in
>>a sauna or a banya before running outside and rolling around in the
>>snow or swimming in an ice-cold lake appears to be quite beneficial,
>>or so claim those who do this. There may be something about such
>>extremes of temperature that triggers a different response.
>
>It is my belief that this is the reason that there are only six million
>Finns.
When I visited Finland earlier this year I was treated to my first real
Sauna ever. I was amazed at how good it was. I was further and even more
amazed at how much good it did me.
1./ It improved my emotional outlook.
2./ It helped cause me to reduce my food intake
3./ It helped cause me to reduce my cigarette smoking.
4./ It improved my motivation.
I should be so lucky as to be able to do such saunas more than just once
or twice a lifetime. The people were some of the best I've met anywhere
also.
sand
wrote:
>[*] Curiously, this is not always the case. The practice of sitting in a
>sauna or a banya before running outside and rolling around in the snow or
>swimming in an ice-cold lake appears to be quite beneficial, or so claim
>those who do this. There may be something about such extremes of temperature
>that triggers a different response.
>
I am not particularly fond of saunas, but every Finn seems to enjoy
them and they are available in every house and apartment. I have taken
one and immediately after jumped into a cold lake,and the experience
was not at all shocking. The water felt quite comfortable.
Nevertheless it is something of a strain on the circulatory system and
Finland has had a large problem with heart disease. Much of this
perhaps can be allotted to high cholesterol diets, but there is some
debate about this.
Jan Sand
Mike Lyle
[...]
> When I visited Finland earlier this year I was treated to my first real
> Sauna ever. I was amazed at how good it was. I was further and even more
> amazed at how much good it did me.
>
> 1./ It improved my emotional outlook.
> 2./ It helped cause me to reduce my food intake
> 3./ It helped cause me to reduce my cigarette smoking.
> 4./ It improved my motivation.
>
> I should be so lucky as to be able to do such saunas more than just once
> or twice a lifetime. The people were some of the best I've met anywhere
> also.
I envy you; but even the "unreal" saunas we have are pretty
life-enhancing.
And by courtesy of the tipi people I mentioned in the narrowboat
thread, my older girls had a sweat-lodge "treatment" once when they
were about ten; they came out feeling great and looking gorgeous: the
only expression I could think of was that they looked like very
superior brand-new dolls.
Mike.
Richard R. Hershberger
> By the way, I may be wrong, but I've heard that few people in San Fransisco
> bother with air conditioning. The climate is extremely mild, and in August
> it can actually get quite cold and foggy, which always comes as a shock to
> tourists. Apparently, it's something to do with air currents out in the bay.
>
> Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
I have never lived in San Francisco, but I went to college in Santa
Barbara. Neither my dorm room nor, later, my apartment had air
conditioning. There would be a few weeks out of the year where we
really wished for it, but most of the time it was fine. I also lived
a couple of years in Flagstaff, Arizona. It was the same way there.
This surprises people, but Flagstaff is high enough to escape the heat
that most people associate with Arizona.
Richard R. Hershberger
Skitt
> "rewboss" wrote
>> By the way, I may be wrong, but I've heard that few people in San
>> Fransisco bother with air conditioning. The climate is extremely
>> mild, and in August it can actually get quite cold and foggy,
>> which always comes as a shock to tourists. Apparently, it's
>> something to do with air currents out in the bay.
>>
>> Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
>
> I have never lived in San Francisco, but I went to college in Santa
> Barbara. Neither my dorm room nor, later, my apartment had air
> conditioning. There would be a few weeks out of the year where we
> really wished for it, but most of the time it was fine. I also lived
> a couple of years in Flagstaff, Arizona. It was the same way there.
> This surprises people, but Flagstaff is high enough to escape the heat
> that most people associate with Arizona.
We have air-conditioning in our house in Hayward, but it is not needed very
often at all. The climate in Hayward is about the best in the SF Bay Area,
it seems.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)
Bill McCray
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> A problem in the UK is that many houses are designed or modified to retain
> heat (using cavity wall insulation, 4in thick mineral fibre loft insulation,
> double glazing, draught excluders on doors and windows, etc.).
>
> The effect of this is that, in summer, the indoor temperature can rise to
> higher than that outside - and stay higher.
>
> For example at 2 a.m. last night the temperature in my bedroom was 24.5C
> even though outside it was 16C. And that was after running a small AC unit
> for a few hours which successfully reduced the temperature in the house by a
> degree or two.
It is not the insulation that causes the interior to get hotter than
the air outside. The sun shines on the exterior of the house and
heats it above the temperature of the outside air. The heat of the
exterior then warms the interior. Sun shining in the windows will
also help warm the interior.
If you didn't have the insulation, the interior would heat up more
quickly and would get get hotter than it does now, almost to the
temperature of the exterior of the house. However, without the
insulation, the house would cool more quickly after the sun set and
the exterior cooled.
Bill
Jon and Mary Miller
>IOver here we have something called "the germ theory of disease." Those
>
>
>fellows say that people get colds in the winter because they gather in warm
>places where they are likely to be near someone who has a cold and that
>people get colds in the summer because they gather in cool places where
>they are like to be near someone who has a cold. According to this
>theory, colds are caused by viruses which can be spread from person
>to person by tiny droplets in the air or on surfaces.
>
>
And hands. You know, shaking hands with that guy who just wiped his
nose, and then yours starts to itch . . . .
Apparently, tissues and handkerchiefs don't help. Only washing (with
hot water and plenty of soap) gets rid of the little buggers.
Jon Miller
Skitt
> Lars Eighner wrote:
>> IOver here we have something called "the germ theory of disease."
>> Those
>> fellows say that people get colds in the winter because they gather
>> in warm places where they are likely to be near someone who has a
>> cold and that people get colds in the summer because they gather in
>> cool places where they are like to be near someone who has a cold.
>> According to this theory, colds are caused by viruses which can be
>> spread from person to person by tiny droplets in the air or on
>> surfaces.
>>
> And hands. You know, shaking hands with that guy who just wiped his
> nose, and then yours starts to itch . . . .
Hardly. It takes a while -- like, at the very least, ten hours.
> Apparently, tissues and handkerchiefs don't help. Only washing (with
> hot water and plenty of soap) gets rid of the little buggers.
Maybe a little, if any. Those buggers are all around us anyway. It's your
own condition that is the key.
Bruce Tober
<mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> on Fri, 8 Aug 2003 wrote:
>Bruce Tober <t...@star-dot-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ifCyBLEnQ7
>M$Ew...@btinternet.com>...
>[...]
>> When I visited Finland earlier this year I was treated to my first real
>> Sauna ever. I was amazed at how good it was. I was further and even more
>> amazed at how much good it did me.
>>
>> 1./ It improved my emotional outlook.
>> 2./ It helped cause me to reduce my food intake
>> 3./ It helped cause me to reduce my cigarette smoking.
>> 4./ It improved my motivation.
>>
>> I should be so lucky as to be able to do such saunas more than just once
>> or twice a lifetime. The people were some of the best I've met anywhere
>> also.
>
>I envy you; but even the "unreal" saunas we have are pretty
>life-enhancing.
Yes, I was in one of them on the second night. Not as great as the real
one, but...
>And by courtesy of the tipi people I mentioned in the narrowboat
>thread, my older girls had a sweat-lodge "treatment" once when they
>were about ten; they came out feeling great and looking gorgeous: the
>only expression I could think of was that they looked like very
>superior brand-new dolls.
"-]
Mike Lyle
You don't seem to know the one about the two Finns who went off to a
cabin in the woods with a case of vodka: 24 hours in, one of them said
"What about something to eat?" The other glared at his friend, and
said "Did we come here to drink, or did we come here to talk?"
Mike.
Charles Riggs
>heat (using cavity wall insulation, 4in thick mineral fibre loft insulation,
>double glazing, draught excluders on doors and windows, etc.).
>
>The effect of this is that, in summer, the indoor temperature can rise to
>higher than that outside - and stay higher.
Warm air has as much difficulty entering such houses as escaping. To
my knowledge, there is no such thing as one-way insulation.
>For example at 2 a.m. last night the temperature in my bedroom was 24.5C
>even though outside it was 16C. And that was after running a small AC unit
>for a few hours which successfully reduced the temperature in the house by a
>degree or two.
That doesn't prove your hypothesis. Trapping the inside air, while the
house is cool in the morning, will result in a lower temperature in
the house later in the day, compared with leaving the windows open all
day, *especially* if the house is well-insulated.
--
Charles Riggs
For email, take the air out of aircom
and replace with eir
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>You don't seem to know the one about the two Finns who went off to a
>cabin in the woods with a case of vodka: 24 hours in, one of them said
>"What about something to eat?" The other glared at his friend, and
>said "Did we come here to drink, or did we come here to talk?"
That'd work even better for the Luxembourgers. From a report today,
they have the highest alcohol consumption rate in the EU, with the
Irish right on their heels.
Peter Duncanson
wrote:
There is nothing above which I would challenge.
The specific situation that I was alluding to was that of the interior air
temperature being higher than that of the exterior all or most of the time.
I believe this is caused by sun shining through the windows. Infrared can
get through the glass but the heat cannot escape because of the insulation.
Curtains and blinds *inside* the windows help to a limited extent - they
limited the volume of air directly heated by the IR rays. Exterior shutters,
canopies, or any other method of preventing the sun shining on the windows
would work wonders.
Odysseus
>
> That doesn't prove your hypothesis. Trapping the inside air, while the
> house is cool in the morning, will result in a lower temperature in
> the house later in the day, compared with leaving the windows open all
> day, *especially* if the house is well-insulated.
My boss's wife swears by getting up very early in the morning and
opening as many doors and windows as possible, closing everything up
again before the outside temperature rises. A good idea, but you'll
only catch me awake at such an hour if I haven't been to bed yet.
--
Odysseus
rewboss
7dc9jv4vshjm642u3...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 14:46:20 +0100, Peter Duncanson
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> >
> >A problem in the UK is that many houses are designed or modified to
retain
> >heat (using cavity wall insulation, 4in thick mineral fibre loft
insulation,
> >double glazing, draught excluders on doors and windows, etc.).
> >
> >The effect of this is that, in summer, the indoor temperature can rise to
> >higher than that outside - and stay higher.
>
> Warm air has as much difficulty entering such houses as escaping. To
> my knowledge, there is no such thing as one-way insulation.
No, but what does happen is that the sun shines in through the windows and
heats up the air inside the house very quickly. This is how greenhouses
work.
A few years ago, some apartments were built in Berlin, to house government
officials as the capital moved from Bonn. They featured huge great
south-facing picture windows, but in an effort to cut costs, they used plain
glass instead of tinted glass. As a result, the apartments are unbearably
hot in the summer, and most savvy government officials chose houses in the
leafy suburbs.
mickwick
>A few years ago, some apartments were built in Berlin, to house government
>officials as the capital moved from Bonn. They featured huge great
>south-facing picture windows, but in an effort to cut costs, they used plain
>glass instead of tinted glass. As a result, the apartments are unbearably
>hot in the summer, and most savvy government officials chose houses in the
>leafy suburbs.
As I understand it, all new houses in Germany must be completely
airtight. A giant vacuum-cleaner is attached to the front door and if
the machine sucks air too easily the house doesn't get its completion
certificate.
Why don't the occupants suffocate? Because all new houses are fitted
with a simple-to-fit modular air- and humidity-control system. This most
excellent equipment is supplied by just the one company at the moment
yet this most excellent company has not abused its monopoly and the
equipment is priced very reasonably. (My brother is the company's FD.)
Householders are allowed to have the front door open for a few seconds
every now and then so that they can enter or leave the house but I don't
know whether they are allowed to open (or, as a last resort, break) any
windows.
Cooking smells? Combustion gases? I'm sure that the system copes with
those most admirably.
--
Mickwick
rewboss
LNdXYMDqNTN$Ew...@shropshire.plus.com...
> As I understand it, all new houses in Germany must be completely
> airtight. A giant vacuum-cleaner is attached to the front door and if
> the machine sucks air too easily the house doesn't get its completion
> certificate.
>
> Why don't the occupants suffocate? Because all new houses are fitted
> with a simple-to-fit modular air- and humidity-control system. This most
> excellent equipment is supplied by just the one company at the moment
> yet this most excellent company has not abused its monopoly and the
> equipment is priced very reasonably. (My brother is the company's FD.)
>
> Householders are allowed to have the front door open for a few seconds
> every now and then so that they can enter or leave the house but I don't
> know whether they are allowed to open (or, as a last resort, break) any
> windows.
>
> Cooking smells? Combustion gases? I'm sure that the system copes with
> those most admirably.
Where the blood and stomach pills did you hear that? A giant vacuum cleaner
to test how airtight new houses are? Householders not allowed to open their
doors for more than a few seconds? Windows that won't open? Are you off your
head? Or is this a far-too-subtle parody of German bureaucracy?
Apart from anything else, it would be breaking laws left right and centre,
in particular fire safety regulations (especially with regard to windows you
can't open), not to mention the general principle of protecting the
environment. And what do you suppose happens if the power supply is cut for
any reason?
Your brother may be working for a company that supplies air-conditioning
units to German households, but everything else in your post is, if you'll
pardon the expression, nothing but hot air.
mickwick
>Where the blood and stomach pills did you hear that? A giant vacuum
>cleaner to test how airtight new houses are?
I've done a bit of googling and apparently it blows rather than sucks.
Look for something called the Minneapolis Blower Door.
(Say goodbye to wild guesses: with the Minneapolis Door Blower, every
citizen can now measure - in real time! - the exact leakability quotient
of the enclosure of his or her choice. Not available in brown.)
> Householders not allowed to open their
>doors for more than a few seconds? Windows that won't open? Are you off your
>head? Or is this a far-too-subtle parody of German bureaucracy?
Innocent speculation, that's all.
>Apart from anything else, it would be breaking laws left right and centre,
>in particular fire safety regulations (especially with regard to windows you
>can't open), not to mention the general principle of protecting the
>environment. And what do you suppose happens if the power supply is cut for
>any reason?
>
>Your brother may be working for a company that supplies air-conditioning
>units to German households, but everything else in your post is, if you'll
>pardon the expression, nothing but hot air.
I understand and sympathise with that point of view but, although I
might be wrong in a few details, I believe that the meat of the thing
is substantially as I gave it. I don't speak German (although I know the
German for 'rolling pin' and, oddly, 'fun') but I think the regulation
in question is probably something known as 'EnEV 2/02'. The following
terms are also relevant in some way:
Energieeinsparverordnung
Wärmeschutzverordnung (Thermal Insulation Ordinance)
Some URLs that might (might) prove to be relevant:
http://oikos.com/tec/
http://www.energyconservatory.com/products/products1.htm
http://www.velta.de/dt/fenev/FAQ/main.htm
http://www.e-parl.net/energy/success/german-print.htm
--
Mickwick
Dams is called seal,
but from where air comes to breathing?
Dr Robin Bignall
wrote:
>On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 22:17:29 +0100, Dr Robin Bignall
><docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
>>my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
>>It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
>>air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears to
>>be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
>>Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable price,
>>is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
>>the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient water
>>evaporation or small portable units).
>>We don't have screen doors, either.
>>Madness!
>
>How much would you want to pay for an installation you might use for
>two or three weeks every five years or so?
As much (or, in fact, as little) as Americans do.
I only drive 4000 miles a year, but I cannot leave my house by any other
means. I suppose you would make a case for ditching my beloved Mercedes and
going everywhere by taxi.
Or, after my experiences of 1997 to 2000, canceling my medical insurance
and depending on the NHS.
Not bloody likely. You can have your financial priorities, and I'll have
mine.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England
Dr Robin Bignall
>Dr Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
>f1g5jv0o140qmsb4p...@4ax.com...
>> It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
>> my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
>> It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
>> air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears
>to
>> be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
>> Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable
>price,
>> is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
>> the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient
>water
>> evaporation or small portable units).
>> We don't have screen doors, either.
>> Madness!
>
>Well, *normally*, the weather in northern and central Europe is so mild that
>we don't *need* air conditioning.
>
rewboss, many people have lots of things they do not *need*. It is their
business, and, since childhood, I have not taken any notice of people who
tried to do my thinking for me. I have not gone far wrong.
>Actually, air conditioning brings a few small risks with it. Stepping out of
>an air-conditioned room into 100 degrees of humid weather can be a shock to
>the system, and leave you more susceptible to colds and other minor
>ailments. Drink plenty (but avoid alcohol), keep to the shade, and don't eat
>ice cream -- it actually raises your body temperature.
>
Heh!
>By the way, I may be wrong, but I've heard that few people in San Fransisco
>bother with air conditioning. The climate is extremely mild, and in August
>it can actually get quite cold and foggy, which always comes as a shock to
>tourists. Apparently, it's something to do with air currents out in the bay.
>
>Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
>
It was certainly that way on the visits I've made, but I didn't have the
pleasure of visiting any private houses. I doubt that many Americans would
be without air-conditioning, though. California has major power supply
problems in the summer, and it's not because of furnaces!
Dr Robin Bignall
I did not notice that, Mike, (at least, about this thread) but some news
clients used to automatically put a "Re:" in front of responses, and others
did not remove it automatically, so one could end up with subject lines
leading off with a series of "Re:"s. I thought those days were long gone,
though.
There is nothing to stop a poster changing the title of a thread, but I
thought that netiquette demanded a "Subject B (used to be Subject A)"
change.
John Emery
ski...@comcast.net wrote on 8/8/03 12:37 PM:
> Richard R. Hershberger wrote:
>> "rewboss" wrote
>
>>> By the way, I may be wrong, but I've heard that few people in San
>>> Fransisco bother with air conditioning. The climate is extremely
>>> mild, and in August it can actually get quite cold and foggy,
>>> which always comes as a shock to tourists. Apparently, it's
>>> something to do with air currents out in the bay.
>>>
>>> Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
>>
>> I have never lived in San Francisco, but I went to college in Santa
>> Barbara. Neither my dorm room nor, later, my apartment had air
>> conditioning. There would be a few weeks out of the year where we
>> really wished for it, but most of the time it was fine. I also lived
>> a couple of years in Flagstaff, Arizona. It was the same way there.
>> This surprises people, but Flagstaff is high enough to escape the heat
>> that most people associate with Arizona.
>
> We have air-conditioning in our house in Hayward, but it is not needed very
> often at all. The climate in Hayward is about the best in the SF Bay Area,
> it seems.
But Redwood City's climate is best by government test. It says so on the
lighted arches over Broadway. Right now it's warm and sunny with a steady
westerly breeze. A few days ago there was a fog bank on the crest of the
mountains to the west, sending a few wispy clouds over this way.
There are a couple dozen probably overripe oranges in the tree next door.
Skitt
> Skitt at wrote:
>> Richard R. Hershberger wrote:
>>> "rewboss" wrote
>>>> By the way, I may be wrong, but I've heard that few people in San
>>>> Fransisco bother with air conditioning. The climate is extremely
>>>> mild, and in August it can actually get quite cold and foggy,
>>>> which always comes as a shock to tourists. Apparently, it's
>>>> something to do with air currents out in the bay.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
>>>
>>> I have never lived in San Francisco, but I went to college in Santa
>>> Barbara. Neither my dorm room nor, later, my apartment had air
>>> conditioning. There would be a few weeks out of the year where we
>>> really wished for it, but most of the time it was fine. I also
>>> lived a couple of years in Flagstaff, Arizona. It was the same way
>>> there. This surprises people, but Flagstaff is high enough to
>>> escape the heat that most people associate with Arizona.
>>
>> We have air-conditioning in our house in Hayward, but it is not
>> needed very often at all. The climate in Hayward is about the best
>> in the SF Bay Area, it seems.
>
> But Redwood City's climate is best by government test. It says so
> on the lighted arches over Broadway. Right now it's warm and sunny
> with a steady westerly breeze.
Same here. Temperature is 72.
> A few days ago there was a fog bank on
> the crest of the mountains to the west, sending a few wispy clouds
> over this way.
Yeah, we saw a few of those wispy things too.
> There are a couple dozen probably overripe oranges in the tree next
> door.
Our neighbor picked his quite some time ago.
I think the climates in Redwood City and Hayward are quite similar, if you
discount those days when RC has the marine layer over it, but Hayward
doesn't.
rewboss
> In alt.usage.english, rewboss wrote:
>
> >Where the blood and stomach pills did you hear that? A giant vacuum
> >cleaner to test how airtight new houses are?
>
> I've done a bit of googling and apparently it blows rather than sucks.
> Look for something called the Minneapolis Blower Door.
>
> (Say goodbye to wild guesses: with the Minneapolis Door Blower, every
> citizen can now measure - in real time! - the exact leakability quotient
> of the enclosure of his or her choice. Not available in brown.)
Well, you live and learn...
>
> > Householders not allowed to open their
> >doors for more than a few seconds? Windows that won't open? Are you off
your
> >head? Or is this a far-too-subtle parody of German bureaucracy?
>
> Innocent speculation, that's all.
Well, don't speculate. I've just downloaded a 33-page PDF document -- the
actual law itself -- and as far as I can make out, you've made some pretty
wild speculations.
First, the law is designed to cut down on energy use -- as the word
"Energiesparverordnung" -- "Energy saving ordinance" implies. Buildings are
to be constructed in a way that *when all the doors and windows are shut*,
heat can't escape. The idea is to make it *possible* -- not *mandatory* --
to seal off your apartment from the outside world. There are no regulations
about opening windows or doors (just try telling a German that it's illegal
to have a balcony, and you'll understand the word "putsch" from an entirely
different point of view).
Second, a mechanism must be in place to ensure that, *when* the apartment is
thus sealed off, fresh air can be introduced to the building. This
mechanism, though, must conform to certain stringent environment-friendly
regulations (e.g., air intake must not draw power from electricity or fossil
fuels).
> I understand and sympathise with that point of view but, although I
> might be wrong in a few details, I believe that the meat of the thing
> is substantially as I gave it.
This is how urban legends start. You had a vague understanding of the
regulations, and then jumped to some silly conclusions and ended up with a
parody. The next thing you know, a tabloid journalist reads this thread and
then files a front-page report on how the German government is making it
illegal to open windows during the summer.
In the same way, when the EU pointed out that British chocolate had more
vegetable fat than French chocolate and that this should be made clear, the
British press were up in arms about the EU "banning British chocolate".
Then, when the EU asked German retailers to end their opposition to British
chocolate on their shelves, the German press were full of stories about how
the British were conspiring to flood the German market with cheap,
substandard chocolate (I even heard one newsreader say that this was "a
disaster for chocolate lovers everywhere").
Matti Lamprhey
> [...] I don't speak German (although I know the
> German for 'rolling pin' and, oddly, 'fun') [...]
You have conveniently omitted that you also know the German for
"hamster".
Matti
-- keeping the record strait
rewboss
> rewboss, many people have lots of things they do not *need*. It is their
> business, and, since childhood, I have not taken any notice of people who
> tried to do my thinking for me. I have not gone far wrong.
Well, your post came across as if you were demanding that Brits install air
conditioning forthwith. It is, as you say, their business whether or not
they should have it, and since air conditioning is mostly unnecessary for
most Brits for most of the time (this summer being an exception), they will
continue to choose not to install air conditioning.
Dr Robin Bignall
>Jon and Mary Miller wrote:
>> Lars Eighner wrote:
>
>>> IOver here we have something called "the germ theory of disease."
>>> Those
>>> fellows say that people get colds in the winter because they gather
>>> in warm places where they are likely to be near someone who has a
>>> cold and that people get colds in the summer because they gather in
>>> cool places where they are like to be near someone who has a cold.
>>> According to this theory, colds are caused by viruses which can be
>>> spread from person to person by tiny droplets in the air or on
>>> surfaces.
>>>
>> And hands. You know, shaking hands with that guy who just wiped his
>> nose, and then yours starts to itch . . . .
>
>Hardly. It takes a while -- like, at the very least, ten hours.
>
>> Apparently, tissues and handkerchiefs don't help. Only washing (with
>> hot water and plenty of soap) gets rid of the little buggers.
>
>Maybe a little, if any. Those buggers are all around us anyway. It's your
>own condition that is the key.
That, and meeting people. The only colds I have caught since 1993, when I
stopped commuting, I have caught from Jeanne, who does commute in
underground trains and buses filled to capacity. Apart from the lousy
surgery and its aftermath, my health is OK, as far as infections are
concerned. Ooh arr, it's this country air.
John Dean
> In alt.usage.english, rewboss wrote:
>
>> Where the blood and stomach pills did you hear that? A giant vacuum
>> cleaner to test how airtight new houses are?
>
> I've done a bit of googling and apparently it blows rather than sucks.
Hey! - Ya got *that* right.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Mike Lyle
> On 8 Aug 2003 01:59:32 -0700, mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Lyle) wrote:
>
> >[...]
> >
> >Did anybody tell us how some threads get split into two? If so, I
> >missed it, and wouldn't mind being told again.
> >
> I did not notice that, Mike, (at least, about this thread) but some news
> clients used to automatically put a "Re:" in front of responses, and others
> did not remove it automatically, so one could end up with subject lines
> leading off with a series of "Re:"s. I thought those days were long gone,
> though.
>
> There is nothing to stop a poster changing the title of a thread, but I
> thought that netiquette demanded a "Subject B (used to be Subject A)"
> change.
>
anything to the header, sometimes it just branches off on its own, as
with this thread.
Yes, I know I should have installed the German server or Agent. One
day, one day.
Mike.
mickwick
>mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
>> Innocent speculation, that's all.
>
>Well, don't speculate.
Sorry.
> I've just downloaded a 33-page PDF document -- the
>actual law itself -- and as far as I can make out, you've made some pretty
>wild speculations.
Yes. It won't happen again.
>First, the law is designed to cut down on energy use -- as the word
>"Energiesparverordnung" -- "Energy saving ordinance" implies.
Well, yes. What did you think I thought had prompted the regulations?
Ewigerholungsheimsehnsucht? Verhängnisvollhauseinweihungtodwünschen? The
idea is to build a Passivhaus, not a Leichenschauhaus.
> Buildings are
>to be constructed in a way that *when all the doors and windows are shut*,
>heat can't escape. The idea is to make it *possible* -- not *mandatory* --
>to seal off your apartment from the outside world. There are no regulations
>about opening windows or doors (just try telling a German that it's illegal
>to have a balcony, and you'll understand the word "putsch" from an entirely
>different point of view).
>
>Second, a mechanism must be in place to ensure that, *when* the apartment is
>thus sealed off, fresh air can be introduced to the building. This
>mechanism, though, must conform to certain stringent environment-friendly
>regulations (e.g., air intake must not draw power from electricity or fossil
>fuels).
As I understand it, the excellent equipment supplied by my brother's
company draws its power from heat exchangers.
>> I understand and sympathise with that point of view but, although I
>> might be wrong in a few details, I believe that the meat of the thing
>> is substantially as I gave it.
>
>This is how urban legends start. You had a vague understanding of the
>regulations, and then jumped to some silly conclusions and ended up with a
>parody.
Entschuldigung.
> The next thing you know, a tabloid journalist reads this thread and
>then files a front-page report on how the German government is making it
>illegal to open windows during the summer.
Yes.
>In the same way, when the EU pointed out that British chocolate had more
>vegetable fat than French chocolate and that this should be made clear, the
>British press were up in arms about the EU "banning British chocolate".
>Then, when the EU asked German retailers to end their opposition to British
>chocolate on their shelves,
Ah! So it was the Germans who were banning British chocolate. I see what
you mean: don't blame Bob for Bill's blunder.
> the German press were full of stories about how
>the British were conspiring to flood the German market with cheap,
>substandard chocolate (I even heard one newsreader say that this was "a
>disaster for chocolate lovers everywhere").
I don't know about the German market, but Britain is conspiring with the
EU to flood the developing world with doubly subsidised (and probably
substandard) chocolate. It's one of the EU's less endearing disasters.
It pays huge subsidies to support hugely inflated prices for sugar-beet
farmers and processors (mostly in Britain). This means that British
chocolate manufacturers must pay three or four times the world market
price for their sugar. Clearly, they wouldn't be able to compete with
non-EU chocolate manufacturers on those terms, so the EU, having just
spent a fortune propping up the sugar price, then pays a second fortune
to the chocolate manufacturers to bring it down again. For various
reasons, this results in EU chocolate that has been shipped half way
across the world being cheaper than chocolate made from unsubsidised
locally grown cocoa and sugar in places like southern Africa.
Bonkers.
--
Mickwick
mickwick
>"mickwick" <mick...@use.reply.to> wrote...
>> [...] I don't speak German (although I know the
>> German for 'rolling pin' and, oddly, 'fun') [...]
>
>You have conveniently omitted that you also know the German for
>"hamster".
Nutzlos Gerede.
--
Mickwick
Bruce Tober
<mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> on Sun, 10 Aug 2003 wrote:
>Dr Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<958bjv
>>
>> There is nothing to stop a poster changing the title of a thread, but I
>> thought that netiquette demanded a "Subject B (used to be Subject A)"
>> change.
No, No, No. Even in those cases where the change is noted as you mention
(and there are actually a couple of ways of properly wording it) it
SHOULD be done not by clicking in the subject field and typing in the
new subject, but by telling your news client to start a new thread and
then quote from the original message you're replying to with the changed
subject.
>It seems, then, to be a Google Groups failing: you don't have to do
>anything to the header, sometimes it just branches off on its own, as
>with this thread.
Wrong also. Properly designed news clients, those which follow official
protocols, thread messages (regardless of subject) according to
reference numbers in the header. Which is why just changing the text in
the subject line won't split the "new thread" into a new branch.
To start a new thread properly you need to specifically tell your mail
client to start a new thread.
In Turnpike it's done by hitting Ctrl T
Mike Lyle
[...]
> In the same way, when the EU pointed out that British chocolate had more
> vegetable fat than French chocolate and that this should be made clear, the
> British press were up in arms about the EU "banning British chocolate".
> Then, when the EU asked German retailers to end their opposition to British
> chocolate on their shelves, the German press were full of stories about how
> the British were conspiring to flood the German market with cheap,
> substandard chocolate (I even heard one newsreader say that this was "a
> disaster for chocolate lovers everywhere").
But then it *is* a disaster for chocolate-lovers everywhere if that
British ersatz spreads any further. In my lifetime the French used to
buy British chocolate because it was better: now you might as well
stir a spoonful of cocoa and half a pound of sugar into a packet of
lard. Except the cocoa isn't what it was, either.
Mike.
Margot
Some newsreaders cannot cope with threading properly once the original
post in the thread is gone - either deleted or marked as read. I have no
idea why this is, but the only cure I've found is to mark all first
posts in a new thread as unread before logging out of newsreader. This
works in OE6 and Mozilla. It is a time-consuming process, and I don't
bother doing it unless the thread is particularly important to me. Hope
this helps.
Margot
rewboss
> Ewigerholungsheimsehnsucht
> Verhängnisvollhauseinweihungtodwünschen
> Passivhaus
> Leichenschauhaus
> Entschuldigung
Na ja, wenn du unbedingt angeben musst. Die beiden ersten hast du selbst
erfunden, stimmt's?
Mike Lyle
[...]
> I don't know about the German market, but Britain is conspiring with the
> EU to flood the developing world with doubly subsidised (and probably
> substandard) chocolate. It's one of the EU's less endearing disasters.
> It pays huge subsidies to support hugely inflated prices for sugar-beet
> farmers and processors (mostly in Britain). This means that British
> chocolate manufacturers must pay three or four times the world market
> price for their sugar. Clearly, they wouldn't be able to compete with
> non-EU chocolate manufacturers on those terms, so the EU, having just
> spent a fortune propping up the sugar price, then pays a second fortune
> to the chocolate manufacturers to bring it down again. For various
> reasons, this results in EU chocolate that has been shipped half way
> across the world being cheaper than chocolate made from unsubsidised
> locally grown cocoa and sugar in places like southern Africa.
>
> Bonkers.
You Third-World-Firsters! I bet you hug trees at weekends.
Mike.
Dr Robin Bignall
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 01:12:16 +0200, "rewboss" <rew...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Dr Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
>>f1g5jv0o140qmsb4p...@4ax.com...
>>> It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
>>> my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
>>> It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
>>> air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears
>>to
>>> be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
>>> Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable
>>price,
>>> is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
>>> the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient
>>water
>>> evaporation or small portable units).
>>> We don't have screen doors, either.
>>> Madness!
>>
>>Well, *normally*, the weather in northern and central Europe is so mild that
>>we don't *need* air conditioning.
>>
>>Actually, air conditioning brings a few small risks with it. Stepping out of
>>an air-conditioned room into 100 degrees of humid weather can be a shock to
>>the system, and leave you more susceptible to colds and other minor
>>ailments. Drink plenty (but avoid alcohol), keep to the shade, and don't eat
>>ice cream -- it actually raises your body temperature.
>
>A problem in the UK is that many houses are designed or modified to retain
>heat (using cavity wall insulation, 4in thick mineral fibre loft insulation,
>double glazing, draught excluders on doors and windows, etc.).
>
>The effect of this is that, in summer, the indoor temperature can rise to
>higher than that outside - and stay higher.
>
>For example at 2 a.m. last night the temperature in my bedroom was 24.5C
>even though outside it was 16C. And that was after running a small AC unit
>for a few hours which successfully reduced the temperature in the house by a
>degree or two.
That is exactly right. And this room is in the attic, to which all of the
heat rises. At 03.00 this morning my hardware monitor was within a couple
of degrees C of closing the system down. Right now the sun is just about to
hit this side of the building, so I'm out of here during the next 5
minutes.
Skitt
[...]
> And this room is in the attic, to which all of the heat rises.
> At 03.00 this morning my hardware monitor was within a couple
> of degrees C of closing the system down. Right now the sun is just
> about to hit this side of the building, so I'm out of here during the
> next 5 minutes.
ObAUE: Seems hardly worth it for only five minutes, innit?
Earle Jones
Dr Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
> my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
> It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
> air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears to
> be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
> Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable price,
> is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
> the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient water
> evaporation or small portable units).
> We don't have screen doors, either.
> Madness!
*
Small correction: In the San Francisco area, nature provides the air
conditioning.
earle
*
Dr Robin Bignall
The former is free, and the latter is only $29, you old skinflint.
Dr Robin Bignall
>Dr Robin Bignall wrote:
>
>[...]
>> And this room is in the attic, to which all of the heat rises.
>> At 03.00 this morning my hardware monitor was within a couple
>> of degrees C of closing the system down. Right now the sun is just
>> about to hit this side of the building, so I'm out of here during the
>> next 5 minutes.
>
>ObAUE: Seems hardly worth it for only five minutes, innit?
I had already had 5 minutes. Are you implying that the English newsgroups
are not worth 10?
Dr Robin Bignall
I'm a Me-Firster, but I talk to my eucalyptus. He (or she) is beautiful,
and has grown 10 feet in a year. Did you ever doubt the power of the
English language?
(Yes, I know that it's pathetic that a grown man cannot tell the sex of a
tree, but there you go.)
Dr Robin Bignall
They can spend their money as they please, my dear chap. Mind you, I'll
spend as much of it as they want to chuck in my direction.
But a solid-state (no water or plumbing) air-conditioner unit can be had
for as little as a thousand pounds if one knows people. The cold air (at
low pressure) can easily be delivered by micro-bore central heating pipes.
It's a project to think about for next year.
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> Dr Robin Bignall wrote:
>> [...]
>>> And this room is in the attic, to which all of the heat rises.
>>> At 03.00 this morning my hardware monitor was within a couple
>>> of degrees C of closing the system down. Right now the sun is just
>>> about to hit this side of the building, so I'm out of here during
>>> the next 5 minutes.
>>
>> ObAUE: Seems hardly worth it for only five minutes, innit?
>
> I had already had 5 minutes. Are you implying that the English
> newsgroups are not worth 10?
I think you misunderstood my comment. I understand what you wrote as "I'll
be gone during the next 5 minutes [but then I'll be back]." Anyway, that's
what you wrote. I was thinking that you must have meant "I'm out of here
*within* the next five minutes."
Carmen L. Abruzzi
docr...@ntlworld.com wrote on 8/9/03 6:30 PM:
No, it's all the air-conditioners in the Central Valley and LA. It can be a
chilly 60F (15C) in San Francisco while it's over 100F (40C) 100 miles east
in Sacramento. It'll be even hotter down in Fresno and Bakersfield.
Down in Southern California, the coast cn be a cool 65 to 70 F, but five or
ten miles inland it's another twenty degrees hotter.
Travelling west from Sacramento on Interstate 80, you often feel the
temperature change as you come over the hill down into Vallejo. If you
don't already have air-conditioning on in your car, that is.
Dr Robin Bignall
>Dr Robin Bignall wrote:
>> "Skitt" wrote:
>>> Dr Robin Bignall wrote:
>
>>> [...]
>>>> And this room is in the attic, to which all of the heat rises.
>>>> At 03.00 this morning my hardware monitor was within a couple
>>>> of degrees C of closing the system down. Right now the sun is just
>>>> about to hit this side of the building, so I'm out of here during
>>>> the next 5 minutes.
>>>
>>> ObAUE: Seems hardly worth it for only five minutes, innit?
>>
>> I had already had 5 minutes. Are you implying that the English
>> newsgroups are not worth 10?
>
>I think you misunderstood my comment. I understand what you wrote as "I'll
>be gone during the next 5 minutes [but then I'll be back]." Anyway, that's
>what you wrote. I was thinking that you must have meant "I'm out of here
>*within* the next five minutes."
Shucks. That's what I meant. I'll hafta brush up my AmE a little.
Unfortunately I no longer have an IBM to pay for a nice, long business trip
so's I can get it from the horses' mouths, so to speak.
Dr Robin Bignall
wrote:
OK, Earl; I should have chosen LA. I was just speaking geographically, you
understand. Another sweeping generalisation gone overboard just for the
sake of a hundred miles or so!
Areff
> >> Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
> >>
> > It was certainly that way on the visits I've made, but I didn't have the
> > pleasure of visiting any private houses. I doubt that many Americans would
> > be without air-conditioning, though. California has major power supply
> > problems in the summer, and it's not because of furnaces!
> >
> No, it's all the air-conditioners in the Central Valley and LA. It can be a
> chilly 60F (15C) in San Francisco while it's over 100F (40C) 100 miles east
> in Sacramento. It'll be even hotter down in Fresno and Bakersfield.
> Down in Southern California, the coast cn be a cool 65 to 70 F, but five or
> ten miles inland it's another twenty degrees hotter.
Let's remember, too, that the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area (Second
Largest Metropolitan Area in America) is a whole lot larger than the
San Jose Metropolitan Area (which includes San Francisco).
Mike Lyle
> In message <3fa4d950.03081...@posting.google.com>, Mike Lyle
> <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> on Sun, 10 Aug 2003 wrote:
> >It seems, then, to be a Google Groups failing: you don't have to do
> >anything to the header, sometimes it just branches off on its own, as
> >with this thread.
>
> Wrong also. Properly designed news clients, those which follow official
> protocols, thread messages (regardless of subject) according to
> reference numbers in the header. Which is why just changing the text in
> the subject line won't split the "new thread" into a new branch.
>
> To start a new thread properly you need to specifically tell your mail
> client to start a new thread.
Bruce, I can assure you it's happening. If you really want me to email
you a copy of the contents page, complete with duplicated thread
subject lines, I could: but why not just take my word for it?
Mike.
Bruce Tober
>Bruce Tober <t...@star-dot-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:<gBsSmoBbKk
>Bruce, I can assure you it's happening. If you really want me to email
>you a copy of the contents page, complete with duplicated thread
>subject lines, I could: but why not just take my word for it?
Why not, indeed.
Consider it done.
Carmen L. Abruzzi
rew...@hotmail.com wrote on 8/7/03 4:12 PM:
>
> By the way, I may be wrong, but I've heard that few people in San Fransisco
> bother with air conditioning. The climate is extremely mild, and in August
> it can actually get quite cold and foggy, which always comes as a shock to
> tourists. Apparently, it's something to do with air currents out in the bay.
>
> Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
Yes, it's often foggy and chilly in summer in SF. It isn't air currents in
the bay that causes this, it's currents out in the ocean. An upwelling of
deep cold ocean water occurs all along the northern coast of California in
summer. Moist ocean air blowing in from the west hits this belt of cold
upwelling and condenses into fog. This occurs all along the coast from Big
Sur up into Oregon, but the fog is limited to the immediate coast by coastal
mountains in most areas. At SF, the Golden Gate allows this fog to penetrate
inland more than it does in other places. Still, the east side of the city
can be warm and sunny when the west side is foggy and chilly. Anywhere in
the city, the temperature can change within minutes as the fog rolls in or
burns off.
Air conditioning might be used on occaisional ninety degree days, but you're
more likely to turn on the furnace in August. Further south along the bay
the climate is warmer where the fog is blocked by the mountains.
Dylan Nicholson
It's just Google Groups, a somewhat flaky and functionality-deprived
reader, but I use it because of the search facility, and I can't be
bothered using one tool to find articles and another to reply to them.
Dylan
Dylan Nicholson
>
> As I understand it, all new houses in Germany must be completely
> airtight. A giant vacuum-cleaner is attached to the front door and if
> the machine sucks air too easily the house doesn't get its completion
> certificate.
>
> Why don't the occupants suffocate? Because all new houses are fitted
> with a simple-to-fit modular air- and humidity-control system. This most
> excellent equipment is supplied by just the one company at the moment
> yet this most excellent company has not abused its monopoly and the
> equipment is priced very reasonably. (My brother is the company's FD.)
>
> Householders are allowed to have the front door open for a few seconds
> every now and then so that they can enter or leave the house but I don't
> know whether they are allowed to open (or, as a last resort, break) any
> windows.
>
> Cooking smells? Combustion gases? I'm sure that the system copes with
> those most admirably.
I can see Great Telephone and Ventilation Riots just waiting to
happen.*
Dylan
* Ok, this is a semi-obscure reference...from Chp. 12, Mostly
Harmless, D. Adams, which begins:
"The Great Ventilation and Telephone Riots of SrDt 3454 had started
off as just a lot of hot air. Hot air was, of course, the problem that
ventilation was supposed to solve and generally it had solved the
problem reasonably well up to the point when someone invented
air-conditioning, which solved the problem far more throbbingly. And
that was all well and good provided you could stand the noise and the
dribbling until someone else came up with something even sexier and
smarter than air-conditioning which was called in-building climate
control. Now this was quite something. The major differences from just
ordinary air-conditioning were that it was thrillingly more expensive,
involved a huge amount of sophisticated measuring and regulating
equipment which was far better at knowing, moment by moment, what kind
of air people wanted to breathe than mere people did."
...and goes on to discuss how the "Breath-o-Smart" ventilation system
broke down on a particularly hot & humid day, causing rioting by
telephone operators sick of saying "Thank you for using
Breath-o-Smart", and resulting in a legal requirement that all
buildings had windows that could be opened...
Earle Jones
Dr Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 00:59:25 GMT, Earle Jones <earle...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <f1g5jv0o140qmsb4p...@4ax.com>,
> > Dr Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
> >> my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
> >> It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
> >> air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears to
> >> be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
> >> Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable price,
> >> is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
> >> the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient water
> >> evaporation or small portable units).
> >> We don't have screen doors, either.
> >> Madness!
> >
> >*
> >Small correction: In the San Francisco area, nature provides the air
> >conditioning.
> >
> >earle
> >*
> OK, Earl; I should have chosen LA. I was just speaking geographically, you
> understand. Another sweeping generalisation gone overboard just for the
> sake of a hundred miles or so!
*
It's 400 miles, but I forgive you!
Best,
earle
*
Earle Jones
"rewboss" <rew...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dr Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
> f1g5jv0o140qmsb4p...@4ax.com...
> > It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
> > my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
> > It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
> > air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears
> to
> > be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
> > Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable
> price,
> > is a luxury here. I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
> > the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient
> water
> > evaporation or small portable units).
> > We don't have screen doors, either.
> > Madness!
>
> Well, *normally*, the weather in northern and central Europe is so mild that
> we don't *need* air conditioning.
>
> Actually, air conditioning brings a few small risks with it. Stepping out of
> an air-conditioned room into 100 degrees of humid weather can be a shock to
> the system, and leave you more susceptible to colds and other minor
> ailments. Drink plenty (but avoid alcohol), keep to the shade, and don't eat
> ice cream -- it actually raises your body temperature.
>
> By the way, I may be wrong, but I've heard that few people in San Fransisco
> bother with air conditioning. The climate is extremely mild, and in August
> it can actually get quite cold and foggy, which always comes as a shock to
> tourists. Apparently, it's something to do with air currents out in the bay.
>
> Maybe someone from San Fransisco can confirm or deny?
*
Confirm.
San Francisco has what is called "nature's air conditioning" -- the
cool onshore breezes that seem to crop up every day, late in the day,
provide us with a great climate -- warm and sunny days and cool
evenings.
Once in a while, we will get a warm trend, when the temperatures will
get up to 75 or 80, or rarely to 90, in the city, but it seems to drop
down to the 60s, and sometimes the 50s in the evening.
A lot has to do with the prevailing wind direction from west to east.
The onshore ocean breezes are always cooler than the offshore winds
that blow from the land to the water. The major cause is the Japanese
current, together with the shape of the ocean bottom, which causes
"upwelling" bringing cooler deep water to the surface, where the winds
bring the natural air conditioning ashore.
Today is a good example. I live about 30 miles south of San
Francisco. We had a nice warm day, highest temperature around 75 or
80 degrees. Right now at 9:00 PM it is around 65, and we will
probably have a low tonight of about 55.
The microclimates here are tricky. There are areas within 30 or 40
miles (in the east bay) where the temps can hit 90 to 100 degrees when
the San Francisco temperature is a pleasant 65 or 70. The ocean's
temperature influence is limited to the near onshore.
It is true that San Francisco can be very cool and foggy in the middle
of July and August. One sees tourists in T-shirts and shorts
shivering in line for the cable cars. They just don't seem to learn.
As Mark Twain said, "The coldest winter I ever spent was Summer in San
Francisco."
earle
*
rewboss
735eea53.03081...@posting.google.com...
> ...and goes on to discuss how the "Breath-o-Smart" ventilation system
> broke down on a particularly hot & humid day, causing rioting by
> telephone operators sick of saying "Thank you for using
> Breath-o-Smart", and resulting in a legal requirement that all
> buildings had windows that could be opened...
Sometimes, life has a pretty good go at imitating art.
Berlin's S-Bahn is a system of mass transit suburban rail services,
providing frequent connections from central Berlin to the suburbs. After
reunification, a massive programme of modernisation was put in place, and
this included the development of new, technologically advanced trains.
Originally, they wanted to have air-conditioning on the trains, but decided
that, since this was Europe, and since air-conditioning isn't cheap, a new
system would be developed. This would, as the train chuntered up the line
towards Frohnau or Ahrensfelde or wherever, suck air in at the front, and
blow it out again at the back, providing a constant stream of air to cool
the inside of the carriage. Naturally, for this to work properly, none of
the windows could be opened.
The first half-dozen or so of these brand new trains were introduced (a few
years now) on what turned out to be the hottest day of the year. And this
brand new cut-price air-conditioning sucky blowy thing, it turned out,
couldn't cope. Temperatures climbed to 40蚓 (100蚌) inside the trains,
especially unpleasant at rush hour. The S-Bahn were forced to withdraw the
trains between the hours of about 11am and 4pm while they racked their
brains trying to work out what to do.
The crunch really came when one of the trains broke down. The problem was,
it wasn't a mechanical breakdown; the on-board computer crashed. Because
these trains were so technologically advanced, they will not move an inch if
the on-board computer crashes -- and so there it stayed, as the temperature
steadily climbed. This happened on a bridge over the entrance to a dock, and
so the passengers couldn't be evacuated immediately.
Normal practice would be to cut power to the S-Bahn tracks (it works on a
third rail system), evacuate the train and lead the passengers along the
other track to the next station. Instead -- presumably because this happened
on one of the busiest stretches of line -- they opted to keeping the lines
live and hunting around for something to tow the stricken train to the next
station.
Meanwhile, all the passengers were watching trains going in the other
direction at three-minute intervals. That was bad enough, but then the
S-Bahn, in its wisdom, decided to impose a single-track stretch around the
marooned train, so that suddenly passengers were seeing trains going in
*both* directions alternately -- including the direction they were trying to
travel in themselves.
They were stuck there for 40 minutes, sweating profusely. Anywhere other
than in Germany, and the driver's decapitated body would have been found
floating in the dock.
Now, all these trains have windows that open.
mickwick
In alt.usage.english, rewboss wrote:
>mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
>> Ewigerholungsheimsehnsucht
>> Verhängnisvollhauseinweihungtodwünschen
>> Passivhaus
>> Leichenschauhaus
>> Entschuldigung
>
>Na ja, wenn du unbedingt angeben musst. Die beiden ersten hast du selbst
>erfunden, stimmt's?
Google gives that as:
Well, if you must absolutely indicate. Both first you invented,
stimmt's?
But I think the first bit probably had something to do with showing off
badly, probably in the sense of showing off and getting it wrong.
Stimmt's? (Stimmgabel, even?)
If so, no wonder. I don't speak German. If those first two words came
out looking anything like credible German (and is German really full of
concatenated nonsense like that?) it was a pure fluke.
(Of course, that doesn't rule out the showing off. It just makes it
mendacious showing off. But sometimes a chap just has to absolutely
indicate.)
--
Mickwick
Jerry Friedman
> It touched 97 in the shade here yesterday and today, and it is now 110 in
> my computer room, so I'll be back when it gets cooler.
> It's a pity that nobody appears to have put proper, built-in, home
> air-conditioning systems on the UK market for the non-rich. What appears to
> be normal for Americans from the Great Lakes to the Rio Grande, San
> Francisco to New York, to have permanently installed at a reasonable price,
> is a luxury here.
Maybe that's why I don't have air conditioning--because I live on the
opposite side of the Rio Grande from the Great Lakes! I wouldn't have
minded AC a few weeks ago, though. I told my mother, who greatly
dislikes heat, that late July was a good time for her to visit because
the weather should be fairly cool. No such luck.
> I have never been in a private, air-conditioned house in
> the UK (with the system built-in rather than depending on inefficient water
> evaporation or small portable units).
As a friend of mine says, "I don't know why they're called swamp
coolers. They don't cool a swamp worth a damn." I wouldn't imagine
they cool Britain very well either. (They work effectively here in
New Mexico, though.)
> We don't have screen doors, either.
> Madness!
Not having screen doors is madness.
--
Jerry Friedman
Bruce Tober
Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> on Tue, 12 Aug 2003 wrote:
>> We don't have screen doors, either.
>> Madness!
>
>Not having screen doors is madness.
Is there an echo here?
Dr Robin Bignall
wrote:
Thanks. It was a guess. The plane took only a minute or two to pass over
one and land at the other, a loooong time ago.
Skitt
> Earle Jones wrote:
>> Dr Robin Bignall wrote:
>>>> Small correction: In the San Francisco area, nature provides the
>>>> air conditioning.
>>>
>>> geographically, you understand. Another sweeping generalisation
>>> gone overboard just for the
>>> sake of a hundred miles or so!
>>
>>
> Thanks. It was a guess. The plane took only a minute or two to pass
> over one and land at the other, a loooong time ago.
No, no -- the Concorde never flew that route.
Ayaz Ahmed Khan
Hash: SHA1
"Bruce Tober" typed:
> Wrong also. Properly designed news clients, those which follow
> officialprotocols, thread messages (regardless of subject) according
> toreference numbers in the header. Which is why just changing the text
> inthe subject line won't split the "new thread" into a new branch.
That is slightly wrong, if I might add. Most news-readers have the
option that is available to the user to sort messages according to
either the _message-id_ or _message-id and subject only_. I had
experienced exactly the same problem but in another news-group of
another news-server. It was due to the messages being sort out
according to _message-ids_ only. I changed it to sort with _message-id
and subject_, and the problem simply vanished.
--
Ayaz Ahmed Khan
Yours Forever in,
Cyberspace.
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Dr Robin Bignall
>Dr Robin Bignall wrote:
>> Earle Jones wrote:
>>> Dr Robin Bignall wrote:
>>>> Earle Jones wrote:
>
>>>>> Small correction: In the San Francisco area, nature provides the
>>>>> air conditioning.
>>>>
>>>> OK, Earl; I should have chosen LA. I was just speaking
>>>> geographically, you understand. Another sweeping generalisation
>>>> gone overboard just for the
>>>> sake of a hundred miles or so!
>>>
>>> It's 400 miles, but I forgive you!
>>>
>> Thanks. It was a guess. The plane took only a minute or two to pass
>> over one and land at the other, a loooong time ago.
>
>No, no -- the Concorde never flew that route.
Now you understand what I mean when I say that my time-sense went AWOL,
about 19.. er.., some while ago.
Peter Moylan
>is substantially as I gave it. I don't speak German (although I know the
>German for 'rolling pin' and, oddly, 'fun') [...]
There's a German word for 'fun'? You learn something new every day.
--
Peter Moylan Peter....@newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)