Delve as a noun

[Uncle Peter]

Who in here uses "delve" as a noun? I thought it was commonplace, but I just used the word in an email to a friend, and he was confused. When I looked in a few dictionaries, half have the verb only, and the other half have the noun as an archaic word meaning a cave. To me, a delve is a small indentation in something.

Egs.
"The flowerpot left a delve in the lawn."
"The sofa's feet have left delves in the carpet."

--
Helpdesk: Click on the 'my computer' icon on the left of the screen.
Customer: Your left or my left?

[John Varela]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 19:53:34 UTC, "Uncle Peter" <n...@spam.com> wrote:

> Who in here uses "delve" as a noun? I thought it was commonplace, but I just used the word in an email to a friend, and he was confused. When I looked in a few dictionaries, half have the verb only, and the other half have the noun as an archaic word meaning a cave. To me, a delve is a small indentation in something.
>
> Egs.
> "The flowerpot left a delve in the lawn."
> "The sofa's feet have left delves in the carpet."

The word you want is "dent", unless it's a small dent in a car door,
in which case it's a "ding".

--
John Varela

[Bill McCray]

On 3/8/2014 2:53 PM, Uncle Peter wrote:
> Who in here uses "delve" as a noun? I thought it was commonplace, but I
> just used the word in an email to a friend, and he was confused. When I
> looked in a few dictionaries, half have the verb only, and the other
> half have the noun as an archaic word meaning a cave. To me, a delve is
> a small indentation in something.
>
> Egs.
> "The flowerpot left a delve in the lawn."
> "The sofa's feet have left delves in the carpet."
>

I know of "delve" as a verb, but not as a noun.

Bill in Kentucky

[Uncle Peter]

I agree with both of those, but delve is often used aswell, especially in for example something soft like grass or earth.

--
What do you call kinky sex with chocolate?
S&M&M

[Uncle Peter]

I've heard it used in Scotland, North England, and South England.

--
I never would have married you if I knew how stupid you were!" shouted the woman to her husband.
The husband replied, "You should've known how stupid I was the minute I asked you to marry me!"

[philo]

On 03/08/2014 03:18 PM, Uncle Peter wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 21:03:29 -0000, Bill McCray
> <billm...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2014 2:53 PM, Uncle Peter wrote:
>>> Who in here uses "delve" as a noun? I thought it was commonplace, but I
>>> just used the word in an email to a friend, and he was confused. When I
>>> looked in a few dictionaries, half have the verb only, and the other
>>> half have the noun as an archaic word meaning a cave. To me, a delve is
>>> a small indentation in something.
>>>
>>> Egs.
>>> "The flowerpot left a delve in the lawn."
>>> "The sofa's feet have left delves in the carpet."
>>>
>> I know of "delve" as a verb, but not as a noun.
>
> I've heard it used in Scotland, North England, and South England.
>

I have never heard of "delve" being used as a noun.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/delve

[Uncle Peter]

So if you heard one of the above examples, you would be confused/surprised/etc? Odd how I've heard it used by many people, from many parts of the UK.

--
The success of the "Wonder Bra" for under-endowed women has encouraged the designers to come out with a bra for over-endowed women.
It's called the "Sheep Dog Bra"- it rounds them up and points them in the right direction.

[Tim+]

Never heard it used as a noun either but it is in Chambers. Dates back to
Spenser though which is usually a good indication that a word has passed
out of usage. ;-)


delve
noun (archaic; Spenser)
A hollow, hole, depression, a cave
ORIGIN: OE delfan to dig; connected with dale, delf, dell
delvˈer noun
[Chambers Dictionary (iOS) © Chambers Harrap Publishers Ltd.]

Tim

[Uncle Peter]

I guess a lot of my friends and relatives use Chambers then, as I've heard it a lot. I was astonished one of my friends had never heard of it.

--
Excuse me, are you reading that paper you're sitting on?

[philo]

On 03/08/2014 04:03 PM, Uncle Peter wrote:
>

<snip>

>>
>>
>> I have never heard of "delve" being used as a noun.
>>
>>
>> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/delve
>
> So if you heard one of the above examples, you would be
> confused/surprised/etc? Odd how I've heard it used by many people, from
> many parts of the UK.
>

From the context of the sentence I'm sure I'd have been able to figure
it out.

[Uncle Peter]

So basically it's a misuse of the word done by many, yet the dictionaries haven't noticed. I'm surprised Collins don't have it, they add all sorts of weird stuff.

--
History teaches us that no other cause has brought more death than the word of god. -- Giulian Buzila

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:11:51 -0000, "Uncle Peter" <n...@spam.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 22:58:24 -0000, philo <ph...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 03/08/2014 04:03 PM, Uncle Peter wrote:
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have never heard of "delve" being used as a noun.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/delve
>>>
>>> So if you heard one of the above examples, you would be
>>> confused/surprised/etc? Odd how I've heard it used by many people, from
>>> many parts of the UK.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From the context of the sentence I'm sure I'd have been able to figure
>> it out.
>
>So basically it's a misuse of the word done by many, yet the dictionaries haven't noticed. I'm surprised Collins don't have it, they add all sorts of weird stuff.

It's a "misuse" that the OED records from 1590.

delve, n.

Etymology: Partly a variant of delf n.1 (compare staff , stave ),
partly noun of action < delve v.

1. A cavity in or under the ground; excavation, pit, den; = delf n.1
1. (The pl. delves is found with either sing.)
....
a1822 Shelley Homer's Hymn to Mercury xix, in Posthumous Poems
(1824) 301 And fine dry logs and roots innumerous He gathered in
a delve upon the ground.

2. A hollow or depression in a surface; a wrinkle.

....
1869 Daily News 8 July, The pursed up mouths, the artificial
lines and delves, the half-closed eyes of those [marksman] to be
seen sighting, and ‘cocking’, and aiming for the Queen's to-day.

3. An act of delving; the plunging (of a spade) into the ground.

1869 Daily News 1 Mar., He quickly learns that every delve of
his spade in the earth means money.

{This entry has not yet been fully updated (first published 1895).}

The noun "delf":

Etymology: Middle English delf , late Old English dælf for delf ,
trench, ditch, quarry, occurring in a 12th cent. copy of a charter,
inserted in the Peterborough Old English Chron. (Laud MS.) anno 963;
apparently aphetic < Old English gedelf digging, a digging, ditch,
trench, quarry, mine (stángedelf , léadgedelf ), < delfan to delve
v., dig.

Now only local.

1. That which is delved or dug:
a. A hole or cavity dug in the earth, e.g. for irrigation or
drainage; a pit; a trench, ditch; spec. applied to the drainage
canals in the fen districts of the eastern counties.
c1420 ...
....
1877 E. Peacock Gloss. Words Manley & Corringham, Lincs., Delf,
Delft, a drain that has been delved..a pond, a clay-pit. a railway
cutting, or any other large hole that has been delved out.

b. An excavation in or under the earth, where stone, coal, or other
mineral is dug; a quarry; a mine. The ordinary name for a quarry
in the northern counties.

1388 Bible (Wycliffite, L.V.) 2 Chron. xxxiv. 11 To bie stoonys
hewid out of the delues, ether quarreris.
....
1891 Labour Commission Gloss., Delphs, terms used to denote the
working places in Yorkshire ironstone quarries.

†c. A grave. Obs.

†2. A bed or stratum of any earth or mineral that is or may be dug
into.

3.
a. Sc. A sod or cut turf.

1812...
1825 J. Jamieson Etymol. Dict. Sc. Lang. Suppl. (at cited word),
A sod. In this sense the term delf is used, Lanarks. and Banffs.

†b. Heraldry. A square bearing supposed to represent a square-cut
sod of turf, used as an abatement. Obs.

†4. An act of delving; a thrust of the spade.

{This entry has not yet been fully updated (first published 1895).}

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[Uncle Peter]

Oh good, I'm not imagining things then :-)

--
Peter is listening to "Hollywood Undead - Turn Out The Lights"

[Daniel James]

In article <ocbnh99joel34a7no...@4ax.com>, Peter

Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> It's a "misuse" that the OED records from 1590.
>
> delve, n.

Thank you, Peter. I knew someone would have a delve around in a
dictionary before too long <smile>.

Strangely, I don't think I've ever heard "delve" used as a noun in the
sense(s) you cite, but I've certainly heard it used in the sense that I
did, above.

Cheers,
Daniel.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 15:04:07 -0000, Daniel James <dan...@me.invalid>
wrote:

I've never heard it used as a noun in any sense.

[Phil C.]

I assume 'delph' is a variant of 'delved' i.e. a place dug. I've only
heard it used in place name, though, such as... er... Delph. A good sign
of mining in the past. Haven't searched for evidence, though.

--
Phil C.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 18:01:22 +0000, "Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net>
wrote:

The OED gives "delph" as another spelling of "delf": "That which is
delved or dug".

I was about to say that we shouldn't confuse "delph" with Delft in South
Holland, but I checked with Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delft#History

The city of Delft erupted aside a canal, the 'Delf', which come from
the word delven, meaning digging, and led to the name Delft.

(That use of "erupted" is unusual. The authors of the article may not be
native English speakers.)

[Phil C.]

On 09/03/14 23:13, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 18:01:22 +0000, "Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net>
> wrote:

>> I assume 'delph' is a variant of 'delved' i.e. a place dug. I've only
>> heard it used in place name, though, such as... er... Delph. A good sign
>> of mining in the past. Haven't searched for evidence, though.
>
> The OED gives "delph" as another spelling of "delf": "That which is
> delved or dug".
>
> I was about to say that we shouldn't confuse "delph" with Delft in South
> Holland,

I was about to check that before I posted (given my brother-in-law used
to work there) but forgot, so well done. I also wondered whether there
might be any very, very ancient link to 'elf', in the sense of a magical
being from under the ground, but can't see it's very likely.

>but I checked with Wikipedia:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delft#History
>
> The city of Delft erupted aside a canal, the 'Delf', which come from
> the word delven, meaning digging, and led to the name Delft.
>
> (That use of "erupted" is unusual. The authors of the article may not be
> native English speakers.)

It wouldn't be very flattering, would it, thinking of boils.

--
Phil C.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 12:26:06 +0000, "Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net>

wrote:

>On 09/03/14 23:13, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 18:01:22 +0000, "Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net>
>> wrote:
>
>>> I assume 'delph' is a variant of 'delved' i.e. a place dug. I've only
>>> heard it used in place name, though, such as... er... Delph. A good sign
>>> of mining in the past. Haven't searched for evidence, though.
>>
>> The OED gives "delph" as another spelling of "delf": "That which is
>> delved or dug".
>>
>> I was about to say that we shouldn't confuse "delph" with Delft in South
>> Holland,
>
>I was about to check that before I posted (given my brother-in-law used
>to work there) but forgot, so well done. I also wondered whether there
>might be any very, very ancient link to 'elf', in the sense of a magical
>being from under the ground, but can't see it's very likely.
>

The etymology of "elf" given in the OED doesn't mention a being from
under the ground. The elf is more connected with nightmares.

They were believed to be of dwarfish form, to produce diseases of
various kinds, to act as incubi and succubi, to cause nightmares,
and to steal children, substituting changelings in their place.

The use of "elf" to mean "fairy" is more recent.

During the 1500/1600s the Scottish plural of elf was "elvis".

There is more here, including the fact that Elf has survived in some
surname, Alfred and Alvin, for instance.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=elf&allowed_in_frame=0

>>but I checked with Wikipedia:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delft#History
>>
>> The city of Delft erupted aside a canal, the 'Delf', which come from
>> the word delven, meaning digging, and led to the name Delft.
>>
>> (That use of "erupted" is unusual. The authors of the article may not be
>> native English speakers.)
>
>It wouldn't be very flattering, would it, thinking of boils.

The equivalent sentence in the Dutch Wikipedia page is:

Delft is ontstaan aan een gegraven waterloop, de 'Delf', en heet
daar ook naar; delven betekent graven.

I know no Dutch but with the aid of Google Translate I've narrowed down
the word corresponding to "erupted" in the English version. It is
"ontstaan". GT translates that as "arise", so "arose" would be better
than "erupted".

The city of Delft arose aside a canal...

[Peter Young]

Less flattering thinking of volcanoes?

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Ian Jackson]

In message <op.xce5j...@red.lan>, Uncle Peter <n...@spam.com> writes

>Who in here uses "delve" as a noun? I thought it was commonplace, but
>I just used the word in an email to a friend, and he was confused.
>When I looked in a few dictionaries, half have the verb only, and the
>other half have the noun as an archaic word meaning a cave. To me, a
>delve is a small indentation in something.
>
>Egs.
>"The flowerpot left a delve in the lawn."
>"The sofa's feet have left delves in the carpet."
>

I've kind-of lost the plot of this thread, but as the verb "to delve"
equates to the verb "to dig" (both in the literal sense - with a spade -
and also more figuratively as "to enquire into" or "to investigate"), it
is quite plausible that it can also equate to the noun "dig", that is
the act of - or the result of - digging (for example, an "archaeological
dig"). However, while I see no problem with (say) "I'll have a delve
into the records", I don't instinctively relate the noun "delve" to the
result of your efforts with a spade.
--
Ian

[Uncle Peter]

A delve (verb) is usually less vigorous than a dig (verb), hence a delve (noun) is a smaller hole than a dig (noun).

[Phil C.]

On 11/03/14 00:02, Uncle Peter wrote:

> A delve (verb) is usually less vigorous than a dig (verb), hence a delve
> (noun) is a smaller hole than a dig (noun).

I first came across it as a young child, in a nursery rhyme. No prizes
for guessing what it rhymed with. Even then, "dig and delve" sounded a
bit desperate for a rhymester.
--
Phil C.

[Uncle Peter]

I had to look up what rhymes with it! Twelve? Shelve?

--
Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one?

[Phil C.]

I remember, through, the fog of time, learning it from my London grandma
when I was very young, early 1950s. Mind you, it was published 1805 so I
must have been.... oooh.... 12 or so. :-) The version I was taught was
close to -
>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One,_Two,_Buckle_My_Shoe#Lyrics>

But I'm sure we had the words as- "Seven, eight, lay the grate" (i.e.
prepare the coal fire") and "My stomach's empty" at the end. We were
more anatomical but still too formal for "tummy".
--
Phil C.

[Uncle Peter]

I never heard that go higher than 10, that's why I didn't remember. Probably because the primary school teachers we had weren't very intelligent.

--
I have the world's oldest typewriter - it prints in pencil

[Uncle Peter]

I was thrown out of class at primary school for calling a "bum" an "arse". What's the bloody difference? (She didn't like that phrase either)

--
How does an Italian get into an honest business?
Through the skylight.

[Peter Young]

"Eleven, twelve,
Dig and delve"

as I remember. But has someone already said that?

[John Varela]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:08:14 UTC, "Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net>

I learned it as "Three, four, close [not open] the door". "Close"
scans better.

I remember the rhyme up to "maids a-courtin'"; the lines after that
don't ring a bell. Maybe I never learned them. They don't scan well
anyway.

--
John Varela

[Bill McCray]

On 3/11/2014 2:49 PM, John Varela wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:08:14 UTC, "Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/03/14 15:10, Uncle Peter wrote:
>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:04:08 -0000, Phil C. <phil...@fsmail.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/03/14 00:02, Uncle Peter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A delve (verb) is usually less vigorous than a dig (verb), hence a delve
>>>>> (noun) is a smaller hole than a dig (noun).
>>>>
>>>> I first came across it as a young child, in a nursery rhyme. No prizes
>>>> for guessing what it rhymed with. Even then, "dig and delve" sounded a
>>>> bit desperate for a rhymester.
>>>
>>> I had to look up what rhymes with it! Twelve? Shelve?
>>
>> I remember, through, the fog of time, learning it from my London grandma
>> when I was very young, early 1950s. Mind you, it was published 1805 so I
>> must have been.... oooh.... 12 or so. :-) The version I was taught was
>> close to -
>>>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One,_Two,_Buckle_My_Shoe#Lyrics>
>>
>> But I'm sure we had the words as- "Seven, eight, lay the grate" (i.e.
>> prepare the coal fire") and "My stomach's empty" at the end. We were
>> more anatomical but still too formal for "tummy".
>
> I learned it as "Three, four, close [not open] the door". "Close"
> scans better.

"Shut ...".

[Uncle Peter]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:44:02 -0000, Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 11 Mar 2014 "Uncle Peter" <n...@spam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:08:14 -0000, Phil C. <phil...@fsmail.net> wrote:
>
>>> On 11/03/14 15:10, Uncle Peter wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:04:08 -0000, Phil C. <phil...@fsmail.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/03/14 00:02, Uncle Peter wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>
>>>>> I first came across it as a young child, in a nursery rhyme. No prizes
>>>>> for guessing what it rhymed with. Even then, "dig and delve" sounded a
>>>>> bit desperate for a rhymester.
>>>>
>>>> I had to look up what rhymes with it! Twelve? Shelve?
>>>
>>> I remember, through, the fog of time, learning it from my London grandma
>>> when I was very young, early 1950s. Mind you, it was published 1805 so I
>>> must have been.... oooh.... 12 or so. :-) The version I was taught was
>>> close to -
>>>>
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One,_Two,_Buckle_My_Shoe#Lyrics>
>>>
>>> But I'm sure we had the words as- "Seven, eight, lay the grate" (i.e.
>>> prepare the coal fire") and "My stomach's empty" at the end. We were
>>> more anatomical but still too formal for "tummy".
>
>> I never heard that go higher than 10, that's why I didn't remember.
>> Probably because the primary school teachers we had weren't very
>> intelligent.
>
> "Eleven, twelve,
> Dig and delve"
>
> as I remember. But has someone already said that?

It was in the link above. I'd never heard of anything from 11 to 20.

--
An Ohio teen has pleaded innocent to stealing his mother's credit card to pay for a friend's breast enlargement surgery.
Police say it's lucky they caught the guy quickly; otherwise, it may have turned into a bigger bust.

[Uncle Peter]

Maybe that was why my primary school teacher never went that high, courting is a naughty word. She was a religious nut, I once got told off for not closing my eyes during grace. She did not appreciate me asking how she could know unless hers were open too.

--
Earth is 98% full, please delete anyone you can.

[Phil C.]

On 11/03/14 18:49, John Varela wrote:

> I learned it as "Three, four, close [not open] the door". "Close"
> scans better.
>
> I remember the rhyme up to "maids a-courtin'"; the lines after that
> don't ring a bell. Maybe I never learned them. They don't scan well
> anyway.

Not many choices for rhymes for longer words but the easy ones are
pretty uninspiring
--
Phil C.

[Phil C.]

On 12/03/14 08:18, Phil C. wrote:

> Not many choices for rhymes for longer words but the easy ones are
> pretty uninspiring

Suddenly, a light bulb went. I think it was written with an intended
audience of very young British middle-class children in mind, and is
about the day-to-day routine of servants that they would have witnessed.
Literacy would have been low so it was easy for the servants themselves
to remember. First the shoes have to be put on, probably a laborious
task in itself. Opening and/or closing doors would have been a big deal
in the says before central heating. Sticks have to be brought for
kindling to lay the coal/range fire. Then a boiling fowl is chosen to
put over the heat when there is some. Some vegetables have to be dug up
to accompany the stew. Over the day there might be a little time to
relax and meet their beaux if their lucky. Or, in another version, the
curtains need to be drawn back over all the house. (More likely.) Then
back to the kitchen. Then serving the adults at table, while the
children await their turn.

If right, it's quite an interesting little piece of social history. I
don't know if my grandma (b. 1885) ever worked "in service", OTTOMH, but
I wouldn't be surprised.
--
Phil C.

[John Varela]

My wife agrees with you but that ain't the way I heered it.

> > I remember the rhyme up to "maids a-courtin'"; the lines after that
> > don't ring a bell. Maybe I never learned them. They don't scan well
> > anyway.

--
John Varela

[Uncle Peter]

See sig.

--
Fellows, it's often easier to just give in to your wife. I mean, what's your word against thousands of hers?

[Bill McCray]

Now that this thread has prompted my memory, I do recall that the line
is "eleven, twelve, dig and delve", but I never had any idea what
"delve" meant there. That was back in the days when I didn't consult a
dictionary about words I didn't know. I probably didn't even know what
a dictionary was back then.

Bill in Kentucky

[Uncle Peter]

One of the arguments I had with my primary school teacher, was when she told me to look up a word in the dictionary when I couldn't spell it. How does THAT work?!?

--
He was a very clumsy lover. So the girl had to put him in her place.

[abc]

It's not a verb if you have an "a" in front of it.
abc

[Uncle Peter]

Yes it is. I'm going for a run, I'm doing an archaeological dig, I'm going for a walk.
"I walk", "I go for a walk", "walk" being the same in both cases, an action you carry out, therefore a verb.

--
You can listen to thunder after lightning to tell how close you came to getting hit. If you don't hear it never mind.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

No it isn't!

In "a run" the word "run" is a noun. It is a noun derived from a verb: a
"nouned verb".

As it says here:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noun

<definitions of the noun "noun">

then

Verb

noun (third-person singular simple present nouns, present participle
nouning, simple past and past participle nouned)

(transitive) To convert a word to a noun.

[Uncle Peter]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:52:20 -0000, Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:24:52 -0000, "Uncle Peter" <n...@spam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:19:22 -0000, abc <a...@def.gh> wrote:
>>
>>> Uncle Peter wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 23:18:27 -0000, Ian Jackson
>>>> <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <op.xce5j...@red.lan>, Uncle Peter <n...@spam.com> writes

>>>>> I've kind-of lost the plot of this thread, but as the verb "to delve"
>>>>> equates to the verb "to dig" (both in the literal sense - with a spade -
>>>>> and also more figuratively as "to enquire into" or "to investigate"), it
>>>>> is quite plausible that it can also equate to the noun "dig", that is
>>>>> the act of - or the result of - digging (for example, an "archaeological
>>>>> dig"). However, while I see no problem with (say) "I'll have a delve
>>>>> into the records", I don't instinctively relate the noun "delve" to the
>>>>> result of your efforts with a spade.
>>>>
>>>> A delve (verb) is usually less vigorous than a dig (verb), hence a delve
>>>
>>> It's not a verb if you have an "a" in front of it.
>>> abc
>>
>> Yes it is. I'm going for a run, I'm doing an archaeological dig, I'm going for a walk.
>> "I walk", "I go for a walk", "walk" being the same in both cases, an action you carry out, therefore a verb.
>
> No it isn't!
>
> In "a run" the word "run" is a noun. It is a noun derived from a verb: a
> "nouned verb".
>
> As it says here:
> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noun
>
> <definitions of the noun "noun">
>
> then
>
> Verb
> noun (third-person singular simple present nouns, present participle
> nouning, simple past and past participle nouned)
> (transitive) To convert a word to a noun.

I disagree with your opinion. Run is an action, no matter how you look at it.

--
I just sent my lawyer something for his birthday. Unfortunately, he wasn't home when it went off.

[John Varela]

You're going to find yourself all alone about that in this group.

Many words, including "run", are both nouns and verbs. Sometimes a
noun is converted to a verb and sometimes a verb is converted to a
noun. In the case of "run" I would have to go to a dictionary to
determine whether the noun or the verb came first.

Consider the verb "convoy". It is clearly a verb in "The destroyer
convoyed the freighters". It is just as clearly a noun in "There
were over 100 ships in the convoy," where "convoy" is the object of
the preposition "in".

--
John Varela

[Uncle Peter]

If I said "I'm out to convoy" or "I'm off for a convoy", what would you call "convoy" then?

--
“What’s the difference between a British and an Iraqi tank?”
“I don’t know.”
“Welcome to the US Air Force.”

[John Varela]

> > determine whetThe telephone wires were trailing on the floor.her the noun or the verb came first.

> >
> > Consider the verb "convoy". It is clearly a verb in "The destroyer
> > convoyed the freighters". It is just as clearly a noun in "There
> > were over 100 ships in the convoy," where "convoy" is the object of
> > the preposition "in".
>
> If I said "I'm out to convoy" or "I'm off for a convoy", what would
> you call "convoy" then?

Convoy is a verb in the first sentence but, as it's a transitive
verb, you can't use it that way. The sentence must say what is being
convoyed. Try "I am off to convoy the children to school."

The second sentence is a peculiar use of the noun convoy, and I
would not say that sentence, but I suppose it could be said.

You might like to read the definitions and examples at
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/convoy

--
John Varela

[Uncle Peter]

I prefer to say it any way I can be understood. English would be pretty dull if everyone stuck to the rules, and it would really screw up a lot of local dialects.

--
A young teenager comes home from school and asks her mother, "Is it true what Rita just told me? That babies come out of the same place where boys put their thingies?"
"Yes, dear," replies her mother, pleased that the subject had finally come up and she wouldn't have to explain it.
"But then when I have a baby, won't it knock my teeth out?"

[abc]

Uncle Peter wrote:

> Yes it is. I'm going for a run, I'm doing an archaeological dig, I'm
> going for a walk.

No, it is not: You are going for a run - a run = noun
you go for a walk - a walk = noun

> "I walk", "I go for a walk", "walk" being the same in both cases, an
> action you carry out, therefore a verb.

Reading up a bit on your grammar might save you from making a fool
of yourself in public like this.
abc

[abc]

Uncle Peter wrote:
>>> Yes it is. I'm going for a run, I'm doing an archaeological dig, I'm
>>> going for a walk.
>>> "I walk", "I go for a walk", "walk" being the same in both cases, an
>>> action you carry out, therefore a verb.
>>
>> No it isn't!
>>
>> In "a run" the word "run" is a noun. It is a noun derived from a verb: a
>> "nouned verb".
>>
>> As it says here:
>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noun
>>
>> <definitions of the noun "noun">
>>
>> then
>>
>> Verb
>> noun (third-person singular simple present nouns, present participle
>> nouning, simple past and past participle nouned)
>> (transitive) To convert a word to a noun.
>
> I disagree with your opinion. Run is an action, no matter how you look
> at it.

Of course it is an "action", which incidentally is also a noun.
abc

[Uncle Peter]

You're the fool blindly following the rules of grammar. What I said makes more sense. "A run" should be a verb, as it's an action. It's not a physical thing. I would only call "a run" a noun if it was say an organised event, like a marathon. Then it's an abstract noun.

--
During the weekly Lamaze class, the instructor emphasized the importance of exercise, hinting strongly that husbands need to get out and start walking with their wives.
From the back of the room one expectant father inquired, "Would it be okay if she carries a bag of golf clubs while she walks?"

[Uncle Peter]

I'm copying this stupid debate into a philosophy group where people might be in the slightest bit interested in pedantic differences.

--
The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are:
"Why is it doing that?", "Where the hell are we?", and "Oh Shit!"

[Bill McCray]

On 3/17/2014 12:52 PM, Uncle Peter wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 23:31:25 -0000, abc <a...@abc.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Uncle Peter wrote:
>>
>>> Yes it is. I'm going for a run, I'm doing an archaeological dig, I'm
>>> going for a walk.
>>
>> No, it is not: You are going for a run - a run = noun
>> you go for a walk - a walk = noun
>>
>> > "I walk", "I go for a walk", "walk" being the same in both cases, an
>> > action you carry out, therefore a verb.
>>
>> Reading up a bit on your grammar might save you from making a fool
>> of yourself in public like this.
>
> You're the fool blindly following the rules of grammar. What I said
> makes more sense. "A run" should be a verb, as it's an action. It's
> not a physical thing. I would only call "a run" a noun if it was say an
> organised event, like a marathon. Then it's an abstract noun.
>

You are free to disagree with many generations of grammar books.

Bill in Kentucky

[Uncle Peter]

That's not what most people say.

--
Mental Health Outsourcing -- I was depressed last night so I called Lifeline. I got a call centre in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal. They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck.

[and/or www.mantra.com/jai]

In article <op.xcvk9...@red.lan>,
"Uncle Peter" <n...@spam.com> posted:

>
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 23:33:45 -0000, abc <a...@abc.net> wrote:
>
>> Uncle Peter wrote:
>>>>> Yes it is. I'm going for a run, I'm doing an archaeological dig, I'm
>>>>> going for a walk.
>>>>> "I walk", "I go for a walk", "walk" being the same in both cases, an
>>>>> action you carry out, therefore a verb.
>>>>
>>>> No it isn't!
>>>>
>>>> In "a run" the word "run" is a noun. It is a noun derived from a verb: a
>>>> "nouned verb".
>>>>
>>>> As it says here:
>>>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noun
>>>>
>>>> <definitions of the noun "noun">
>>>>
>>>> then
>>>>
>>>> Verb
>>>> noun (third-person singular simple present nouns, present participle
>>>> nouning, simple past and past participle nouned)
>>>> (transitive) To convert a word to a noun.
>>>
>>> I disagree with your opinion. Run is an action, no matter how you look
>>> at it.
>>
>> Of course it is an "action", which incidentally is also a noun.
>
> I'm copying this stupid debate into a philosophy group where people
> might be in the slightest bit interested in pedantic differences.

[...]

Noun

delve (plural delves)

(now rare) A pit or den

[...]

Source - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/delve

Suggested (by me) new definition and usage:

delve (plural delves)

a monetary unit

Example: give me one delve and I will give you five bitcoins.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj

Posted in:

alt.fan.jai-maharaj,soc.culture.indian,alt.philosophy,
alt.english.usage,alt.usage.english,alt.politics.economics,
soc.culture.usa,alt.politics,talk.politics.misc

[John Varela]

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:54:42 UTC, "Uncle Peter" <n...@spam.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 23:33:45 -0000, abc <a...@abc.net> wrote:
>
> > Uncle Peter wrote:
> >>>> Yes it is. I'm going for a run, I'm doing an archaeological dig, I'm
> >>>> going for a walk.
> >>>> "I walk", "I go for a walk", "walk" being the same in both cases, an
> >>>> action you carry out, therefore a verb.
> >>>
> >>> No it isn't!
> >>>
> >>> In "a run" the word "run" is a noun. It is a noun derived from a verb: a
> >>> "nouned verb".
> >>>
> >>> As it says here:
> >>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noun
> >>>
> >>> <definitions of the noun "noun">
> >>>
> >>> then
> >>>
> >>> Verb
> >>> noun (third-person singular simple present nouns, present participle
> >>> nouning, simple past and past participle nouned)
> >>> (transitive) To convert a word to a noun.
> >>
> >> I disagree with your opinion. Run is an action, no matter how you look
> >> at it.
> >
> > Of course it is an "action", which incidentally is also a noun.
>
> I'm copying this stupid debate into a philosophy group where people might be in the slightest bit interested in pedantic differences.

I think you should do that and make a fool of yourself there as
well.

--
John Varela

[Uncle Peter]

I know that philosophers are a waste of oxygen, so anything they say will not affect me in the slightest.

--
Reboot - to kick a computer in such a way that it turns off and then on again.

[abc]

Uncle Peter wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 23:31:25 -0000, abc <a...@abc.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Uncle Peter wrote:
>
> You're the fool blindly following the rules of grammar. What I said
> makes more sense.

It makes no such thing. It merely makes your cluelessness clear for all
the world to see, as well as the pride you take in that cluelessness.

"A run" should be a verb, as it's an action. It's not
> a physical thing. I would only call "a run" a noun if it was say an
> organised event, like a marathon. Then it's an abstract noun.

As someone else said below, you are free to disagree with established
doctrine. Just like you are free to believe the earth is flat.
abc

[Uncle Peter]

Can't you tell the difference between a physical thing and some words? You remind me of a trainspotter I know.

--
Computers are like air conditioners: They stop working when you open Windows.

[abc]

Uncle Peter wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 23:33:45 -0000, abc <a...@abc.net> wrote:
>
>> Uncle Peter wrote:
>> I disagree with your opinion. Run is an action, no matter how you look
>>> at it.
>>
>> Of course it is an "action", which incidentally is also a noun.
>
> I'm copying this stupid debate into a philosophy group where people
> might be in the slightest bit interested in pedantic differences.

While you're at it, why not go into a maths group with the claim that 8
is a prime number, because it should be, and then berating anyone who
opposes your idea for blindly following the rules of mathematics on
pedantic differences.
abc

[Uncle Peter]

The rules of mathematics actually mean something.

--
Ireland's worst air disaster occurred early this morning when a small two-seater Cessna plane crashed into a cemetery. Irish search and rescue workers have recovered 2826 bodies so far and expect that number to climb as digging continues into the night.

[abc]

Peter Young wrote:
> On 11 Mar 2014 "Uncle Peter"<n...@spam.com> wrote:

>
>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:08:14 -0000, Phil C.<phil...@fsmail.net> wrote:
>
>>> On 11/03/14 15:10, Uncle Peter wrote:

>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:04:08 -0000, Phil C.<phil...@fsmail.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/03/14 00:02, Uncle Peter wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>> A delve (verb) is usually less vigorous than a dig (verb), hence a delve

>>>>>> (noun) is a smaller hole than a dig (noun).
>>>>>
>>>>> I first came across it as a young child, in a nursery rhyme. No prizes
>>>>> for guessing what it rhymed with. Even then, "dig and delve" sounded a
>>>>> bit desperate for a rhymester.
>>>>
>>>> I had to look up what rhymes with it! Twelve? Shelve?
>>>

>>> I remember, through, the fog of time, learning it from my London grandma
>>> when I was very young, early 1950s. Mind you, it was published 1805 so I
>>> must have been.... oooh.... 12 or so. :-) The version I was taught was
>>> close to -
>>>>
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One,_Two,_Buckle_My_Shoe#Lyrics>
>>>
>>> But I'm sure we had the words as- "Seven, eight, lay the grate" (i.e.
>>> prepare the coal fire") and "My stomach's empty" at the end. We were
>>> more anatomical but still too formal for "tummy".
>

>> I never heard that go higher than 10, that's why I didn't remember.
>> Probably because the primary school teachers we had weren't very
>> intelligent.
>
> "Eleven, twelve,
> Dig and delve"
>
> as I remember. But has someone already said that?

Still, "delve" appears to be a verb in that case.

abc