"Jemmy that door, Jimmy!"
Colin Sharpe
: In my insatiable pursuit of American detective fiction to fill my otherwise
: dull, misspent days, I've often come across villains "jimmying" a door open.
: In the UK we say "jemmying" and a jemmy is a sort of crowbar with a curl
: around at one end and a flattened fork at the other which is used to open
: packing cases and, well, jemmy doors and windows open. Did the "e" get
: changed to an "i" during its crossing of the pond? (That presumes that the
: word was "made in Britain", since we can surely claim that we've had crooks
: and villains who speak English longer than America has had them!)
I always said "Jemmy" too. In London, a Jimmy is something totally
different. It means to pass urine! The rhyming slang is supposed to be
"Jimmy Riddle" for "Piddle". Who Jimmy Riddle was is the part I don't
know.
I lived in London long enough to know what "I went down the rubber for
a pigs, and now I need to take a jimmy." means! I am sure rhyming slang
must have been discussed ad nauseum here, though.
Colin Sharpe.
Dr Robin Bignall
dull, misspent days, I've often come across villains "jimmying" a door open.
In the UK we say "jemmying" and a jemmy is a sort of crowbar with a curl
around at one end and a flattened fork at the other which is used to open
packing cases and, well, jemmy doors and windows open. Did the "e" get
changed to an "i" during its crossing of the pond? (That presumes that the
word was "made in Britain", since we can surely claim that we've had crooks
and villains who speak English longer than America has had them!)
--
Wrmst rgds,
RB...(docr...@cwcom.net)
E. S. Busby
You are undoubtedly right. Here in the U S of A we
Jimmy. On your island you jemmy. Both of us pry. Or
lever, if you will.
Graham Howe
--
E. S. Busby <sbu...@jps.net> wrote in message
news:377B13AD...@jps.net...
To me (a Rightpondian), 'pry' means 'lever' only when followed by a
qualifying adverb/adjective - usually 'apart' or 'open'; alone, it means
'snoop', 'spy' or 'undertake unwelcome enquiries (inquiries) into someone
else's private affairs'. I imagine, however, that this is a figurative
meaning derived from the first.
Graham
John Davies
<docr...@cwcom.net> writes
>In my insatiable pursuit of American detective fiction to fill my otherwise
>dull, misspent days, I've often come across villains "jimmying" a door open.
>In the UK we say "jemmying" and a jemmy is a sort of crowbar with a curl
>around at one end and a flattened fork at the other which is used to open
>packing cases and, well, jemmy doors and windows open. Did the "e" get
>changed to an "i" during its crossing of the pond? (That presumes that the
>word was "made in Britain", since we can surely claim that we've had crooks
>and villains who speak English longer than America has had them!)
I've heard "jimmy" in UK in this context, both as a verb and a noun,
though in print I've only seen it as "jemmy". Not a context that often
appears in my discourse, I hasten to add.
Both words are of course simply alternative pet forms of the name
"James", though how they came to be associated with a burglary tool I
haven't been able to discover.
NSOED has both forms, neither marked as specifically US or UK. Both
noun forms seem to have arisen in the mid 19th century, but the verb
form of "jemmy" is marked as later (mid 20th) than the verb "jimmy"
(late 19th).
As someone who was a peripatetic expatriate for most of his adult life,
and an amateur actor for even longer, I have owned such an implement for
a long time. It's useful for taking stage sets apart after the run of a
play, and essential for getting at the contents of your sea-freight
after arrival in a new country. (So long as you remember to pack it in
your air baggage, of course.) In both of those contexts I've only ever
heard it referred to as a "wrecking bar."
--
John Davies (jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk)
Colin Sharpe
: You are undoubtedly right. Here in the U S of A we
: Jimmy. On your island you jemmy. Both of us pry. Or
: lever, if you will.
Yes, but we say it differently! In the U.K. we pronounce lever the same as
"Leaver" (Leever), whereas in the U.S. it seems to be pronounced with a
short e, as you would pronounce the e in "Festival". Pry is probably the
true transatlantic word.
Colin.
Graham
E. S. Busby wrote in message <377B13AD...@jps.net>...
<snip>
> Here in the U S of A we
>Jimmy. On your island you jemmy. Both of us pry. Or
>lever, if you will.
Nah ... You l e v v e r, we l e v e r. <g>.
--
Graham W. D-I-Y Astro Projects, Digital & Film Camera Photos
WIMBORNE http://www.graham-wood.freeserve.co.uk/
Dorset Wessex Astronomical Society - Program, Location
UK http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/
Opinicus
news:7lh1bt$h...@beast.connix.com...
> Yes, but we say it differently! In the U.K. we pronounce lever
the same as
> "Leaver" (Leever), whereas in the U.S. it seems to be
pronounced with a
> short e, as you would pronounce the e in "Festival".
Atlantic or there's been a sound shift in the US in my absence.
I grew up in the NYC area and pronounce "lever" so as to rhyme
with "leave 'er".
> Pry is probably the true transatlantic word.
There's also "prize" ("prise" in Rightpondian) but the
difference in spelling prevents its transatlanticity.
--
Bob
Foça, Turkey
---
Kanyak's Doghouse <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/5309/>
Aaron Baugher
> Yes, but we say it differently! In the U.K. we pronounce
> lever the same as "Leaver" (Leever),
Really? My great-uncles, all carpenters in the Midwest US,
would say 'leever,' and I picked that up from them. I
always assumed it was a back-woods pronunciation, but now I
know that it's really British! :-)
They also pronounced 'ewe,' the female sheep, 'yo,' as in
'yo mama!' I don't suppose that one's British as well?
Aaron
--
Aaron Baugher - abau...@rnet.com - Quincy, IL, USA
Extreme Systems Consulting - http://haruchai.rnet.com/esc/
CGI, Perl, Java, and Linux/Unix Administration
Dr Robin Bignall
I can remember (which is about as far as one can throw a grand piano). I'm
surprised "Jimmy" came first according to the dictionary. I would somehow
have thought that a wrecking bar was a stronger implement than a jemmy or
crowbar. It sounds as though it should be. And, incidentally, why "crowbar?"
Or is a crowbar a different thing?
--
Wrmst rgds,
RB...(docr...@cwcom.net)
John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fDbPiBA4...@redwoods.demon.co.uk...
> In article <377aa...@news1.mcmail.com>, Dr Robin Bignall
> <docr...@cwcom.net> writes<snip>
R. Fontana
> I've heard "Jamie" as a shortened form of "James", but not "Jemmy" as far as
> I can remember (which is about as far as one can throw a grand piano).
The only Jemmy I can think of is James "Little Jemmy" Madison, fourth
president of the United States.
RF
Colin Sharpe
: RF
Great thread! Jamie is a Spanish name, pronounced "Hymie", and not
strictly Jewish either (No hate mail, please!). I have heard the name
"James" shortened to "Jem" too. "Jimmy" or "Jim" are more common, though.
I once knew a Scotsman who's favorite expression to annoy us Engishmen was
to say "Hey, Yee, Jimmy, what's yeer neem?" Needless to say, he was a
Glasgow native.
Colin.
Waldo
<snip>
>They also pronounced 'ewe,' the female sheep, 'yo,' as in
>'yo mama!' I don't suppose that one's British as well?
>
>
>Aaron
Not as far as I know. The common pronunciation for "ewe" is "you." But
you can never rule out that in some area they may pronounce it
differently. (Rumour has it that Theology students who trained under
one particular professor (Oxford?) all refer to "Almighty Gud.")
In England accents vary over a remarkably short distance, when I was
younger I could tell a kid from Dawley even though it was only 3 miles
away from where I lived. Now I live half a mile from the Welsh border
there is, of course, still a linguistic shift over a very short distance
but I think that's perhaps not as interesting or surprising as the
phenomenon of micro accents varying within the same county or town. I
think it's less true now though, people move houses more, travel further
and receive more of their pronunciation from the telly.
(Aside - I've just realised that I tend to write "TV" but say "Telly"
does that happen in the US?)
--
Waldo
Blessed are the cross-eyed, for they shall see God twice.
JMccull171
>does that happen in the US?)
No. Pretty much nobody says "telly" over here, at least if they're from here,
and if they did it would be perceived as artificial, put-on, or something like
that.
Jack
Colin Sharpe
: >(Aside - I've just realised that I tend to write "TV" but say "Telly"
It is worse than that. I have met numerous Americans who think that a
"Telly" is a telephone in U.K. slang. Of course, the "Tellychubbies" or
whatever they're called might have changed that now!
Colin.
Dr Robin Bignall
think I could tell a difference in 3 miles when I was a kid, but the change
in accent from the soft Rutland/Leicester accent of south Nottinghamshire to
the harsh one of the Derbyshire coalfields occurs in about 20 miles, or so.
An example of the latter accent, used to its hideous extreme, is heard when
Dennis Skinner, MP., "The Beast of Bolsover", is taunting the Conservatives
in Parliament. (Bolsover is a Derbyshire town, Mr. Skinner's constituency.)
In contrast, I don't think that American accents change *all* that much,
even over thousands of miles. I know that one's first taste of Louisiana or
some of the other southern states is quite difficult, but it's just a matter
of a little practice in hearing, IMHO. In contrast, even now, a really
serious local speaker from Glasgow sounds to me like a foreign language.
(Sorry, but it's true. I remember a Burns night in Paris in the 1970s. My
ex-wife and I were the only non-Scottish in the room. They put on a record
by the new wonder-boy Billy Connolly, and then proceeded to fall all over
the room peeing themselves with laughter, while we were totally lost. That's
about all I can remember of that night. Burns nights in Paris, as in the
States, are usually quite lubricated!)
--
Wrmst rgds,
RB...(docr...@cwcom.net)
Waldo <Wa...@the-bunker.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:SEhnKDA0...@the-bunker.demon.co.uk...
> Aaron Baugher <abau...@rnet.com> wrote
>
> <snip>
>
> >They also pronounced 'ewe,' the female sheep, 'yo,' as in
> >'yo mama!' I don't suppose that one's British as well?
> >
> >
> >Aaron
>
> Not as far as I know. The common pronunciation for "ewe" is "you." But
> you can never rule out that in some area they may pronounce it
> differently. (Rumour has it that Theology students who trained under
> one particular professor (Oxford?) all refer to "Almighty Gud.")
>
> In England accents vary over a remarkably short distance, when I was
> younger I could tell a kid from Dawley even though it was only 3 miles
> away from where I lived. Now I live half a mile from the Welsh border
> there is, of course, still a linguistic shift over a very short distance
> but I think that's perhaps not as interesting or surprising as the
> phenomenon of micro accents varying within the same county or town. I
> think it's less true now though, people move houses more, travel further
> and receive more of their pronunciation from the telly.
>
> (Aside - I've just realised that I tend to write "TV" but say "Telly"
> does that happen in the US?)
jane lawrence
> I remember a Burns night in Paris in the 1970s. My
> ex-wife and I were the only non-Scottish in the room. They put on a record
> by the new wonder-boy Billy Connolly, and then proceeded to fall all over
> the room peeing themselves with laughter, while we were totally lost. That's
> about all I can remember of that night. Burns nights in Paris, as in the
> States, are usually quite lubricated!)
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Can you
enlighten me?
jane
Dr Robin Bignall
world celebrate "Burns Night", as they do at home, of course (it's in
January or February sometime.) It's an excuse to fly home beforehand and
collect haggis and neeps (turnips or parsnips, I think). Then, on the night,
to eat these "delicacies" and wash them down with *lots* of scotch whisky
(preferably single malt). It's well known in the States: I spent Burns night
in 1973 in an hotel in Washington DC, and I only remember the first part of
the evening. They got it confused a little with Ireland, because there were
girls there who wore little else than 3 strategic shamrocks. However, they
were sound in spirit: it came in half-pint glasses!
Billy Connolly is a famous Glaswegian comedian turned actor (he played the
manservant who was a close friend to Queen Victoria in a recent film). When
he started out, his accent was so thick that very few non-Scottish could
understand it.
I'm English, and don't appreciate haggis, neeps, porridge made with salt and
water etc. But I love the scotch!
--
Wrmst rgds,
RB...(docr...@cwcom.net)
jane lawrence <jan...@mailexcite.com> wrote in message
news:378361EF...@mailexcite.com...