Origin of "flat battery?"

[Gefreiter Krueger]

Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't recall any batteries in history which changed shape when they ran out.

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[Opinicus]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 06:38:48 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger" <n...@spam.com>
wrote:

>Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't recall any batteries in
> history which changed shape when they ran out.

"How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable seem to me all the uses of
this world!" (Hamlet: Act I, Scene 2)

"All the uses of this world" conceivably includes batteries.

--
Bob
www.kanyak.com

[Anton Shepelev]

Gefreiter Krueger:

> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't
> recall any batteries in history which changed
> shape when they ran out.

I think it is by analogy with "flat tire", where by
back-chaining "flat" is intuitively and mistakenly
taken to mean "empty." "Firing an arrow" exempli-
fies a similar error, in my opinion.

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[Gefreiter Krueger]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:29:17 -0000, wrote:

> Gefreiter Krueger:
>
>> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't
>> recall any batteries in history which changed
>> shape when they ran out.
>
> I think it is by analogy with "flat tire", where by
> back-chaining "flat" is intuitively and mistakenly
> taken to mean "empty." "Firing an arrow" exempli-
> fies a similar error, in my opinion.

That's used a lot. I could fire something across the room by throwing it hard.

Also turbo meaning fast instead of exhaust reconsumption.

--
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish

[Ian Jackson]

In message <20131030112917.089ef1b4f8c04a13a7f5c0b8@g{oogle}mail.com>,
Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> writes

>Gefreiter Krueger:
>
>> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't
>> recall any batteries in history which changed
>> shape when they ran out.
>
>I think it is by analogy with "flat tire", where by
>back-chaining "flat" is intuitively and mistakenly
>taken to mean "empty." "Firing an arrow" exempli-
>fies a similar error, in my opinion.
>

"Flat" is used figuratively in many situations to describe something
which is no longer in a state of usefulness or how you want it to be.
"After the guests realised that all the beer and champagne was flat, the
party atmosphere went flat".
--
Ian

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[Gefreiter Krueger]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:17:18 -0000, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <20131030112917.089ef1b4f8c04a13a7f5c0b8@g{oogle}mail.com>,
> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> writes
>> Gefreiter Krueger:
>>
>>> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't
>>> recall any batteries in history which changed
>>> shape when they ran out.
>>
>> I think it is by analogy with "flat tire", where by
>> back-chaining "flat" is intuitively and mistakenly
>> taken to mean "empty." "Firing an arrow" exempli-
>> fies a similar error, in my opinion.
>>
> "Flat" is used figuratively in many situations to describe something
> which is no longer in a state of usefulness or how you want it to be.
> "After the guests realised that all the beer and champagne was flat, the
> party atmosphere went flat".

Both of those make sense to me. Flat is a relaxed drink that is not fizzing. Same goes for the party. I guess that could sort of apply to the battery as it's sitting about doing nothing. You never hear of a flat person when they're tired though.

--
Trading standards have removed the gollywog from Robinsons marmalade jars,
not due to racism but because Niggers were using the labels as bus passes!

[Pablo]

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:

> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't recall any batteries in
> history which changed shape when they ran out.
>

And I always "turn" off my conputer by clicking on a doo da.

--

Pablo

http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
http://paulc.es/

[Gefreiter Krueger]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:35:47 -0000, Pablo <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:

> Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
>
>> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't recall any batteries in
>> history which changed shape when they ran out.
>>
>
> And I always "turn" off my conputer by clicking on a doo da.

That's because computers used to run on gas.

That brings me to another moan - why do electrical controls operate the wrong way round? We've always turned a tap anticlockwise to increase flow, so why make things like volume knobs increase flow clockwise? Things ought to be made intuitively. Another example is the telephone keypad. It's upside down. Look at a calculator or computer numeric keypad - the lower numbers are at the bottom. Why is the phone the wrong way up?

--
Avoid messes.. Remember to cover cat before microwaving.

[Anton Shepelev]

Gefreiter Krueger:

> Anton Shepelev:

>
> > I think it is by analogy with "flat tire", where

> > by back-chaining "flat" is intuitively and mis-
> > takenly taken to mean "empty." "Firing an ar-
> > row" exemplifies a similar error, in my opinion.

>
> That's used a lot. I could fire something across
> the room by throwing it hard.
>

> Also turbo meaning fast instead of exhaust recon-
> sumption.

Then a flat battery should not suprize you. Unlike
a fired arrow, it is not screamingly anachronistic
at least.

[Gefreiter Krueger]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:58:35 -0000, wrote:

> Gefreiter Krueger:
>
>> Anton Shepelev:
>>
>> > I think it is by analogy with "flat tire", where
>> > by back-chaining "flat" is intuitively and mis-
>> > takenly taken to mean "empty." "Firing an ar-
>> > row" exemplifies a similar error, in my opinion.
>>
>> That's used a lot. I could fire something across
>> the room by throwing it hard.
>>
>> Also turbo meaning fast instead of exhaust recon-
>> sumption.
>
> Then a flat battery should not suprize you. Unlike
> a fired arrow, it is not screamingly anachronistic
> at least.

I prefer exhausted or knackered.

--
Acupuncture is a jab well done.

[Anton Shepelev]

Ian Jackson:

> "Flat" is used figuratively in many situations to
> describe something which is no longer in a state
> of usefulness or how you want it to be. "After

> the guests realised that all the beer and cham-

> pagne was flat, the party atmosphere went flat".

Agree, although in your exmple "flat" is still conn-
tected with tires or baloons and means not filled
with a gas. There is some abstraction here because
the lack of dissolved gas does not make a liquid
literally flat.

[Anton Shepelev]

Gefreiter Krueger:

> Anton Shepelev:
>
> > Then a flat battery should not suprize you. Un-

> > like a fired arrow, it is not screamingly
> > anachronistic at least.
>
> I prefer exhausted or knackered.

Reminds of a comment in groff's or another unix
utility's code going like this:

// Process the tokens until the list is exhausted
// or, at least, pretty tired

[Gefreiter Krueger]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:08:57 -0000, wrote:

> Gefreiter Krueger:
>
>> Anton Shepelev:
>>
>> > Then a flat battery should not suprize you. Un-
>> > like a fired arrow, it is not screamingly
>> > anachronistic at least.
>>
>> I prefer exhausted or knackered.
>
> Reminds of a comment in groff's or another unix
> utility's code going like this:
>
> // Process the tokens until the list is exhausted
> // or, at least, pretty tired

Makes sense I suppose!

--
I remember your brother Jimmy, crying one summer's day,
"Why do you cry, young Jimmy?" I heard your granddad say.
"'Cause I can't do what the big boys do, that's why I cry," said Jim,
"Move over then," said your granddad, and he sat down and cried with him.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:17:18 +0000, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <20131030112917.089ef1b4f8c04a13a7f5c0b8@g{oogle}mail.com>,
>Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> writes
>>Gefreiter Krueger:
>>
>>> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't
>>> recall any batteries in history which changed
>>> shape when they ran out.
>>
>>I think it is by analogy with "flat tire", where by
>>back-chaining "flat" is intuitively and mistakenly
>>taken to mean "empty." "Firing an arrow" exempli-
>>fies a similar error, in my opinion.
>>
>"Flat" is used figuratively in many situations to describe something
>which is no longer in a state of usefulness or how you want it to be.
>"After the guests realised that all the beer and champagne was flat, the
>party atmosphere went flat".

The OED entry for "flat" has:

9.

a. Wanting in energy and spirit; lifeless, dull. Also, out of
spirits, low, dejected, depressed.
1604 Shakespeare Hamlet iv. vii. 31 You must not thinke That we
are made of stuffe so flat and dull, That, [etc.].
....

b. Of trade, etc.: Depressed, dull, inactive.
1831 Lincoln Herald 30 Dec. 1 The trade for barley is
exceedingly flat.
....

c. Of an electric battery: run down, (fully) discharged.
1951 Autocar 9 Nov. 1445/2 After five hundred miles of touring I
found myself with a completely flat battery.

Other figurative senses of "flat" have the descriptions "dead" and
"lifeless".


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[Gefreiter Krueger]

My battery is depressed :-)

--
Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?

[CRNG]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 06:38:48 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger" <n...@spam.com>

wrote in <op.w5q8q...@red.lan> Re Origin of "flat battery?":

>Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't recall any batteries in history which changed shape when they ran out.

Flat in the sense of not being filled, like a "flat" tire. A flat
battery is one that is not "filled" with the needed chemical energy.
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[John Varela]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:45:19 UTC, "Gefreiter Krueger" <n...@spam.com>
wrote:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question641.htm

--
John Varela

[Gefreiter Krueger]

Interesting. So nobody knows.

--
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[abc]

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:29:17 -0000, wrote:
>
>> Gefreiter Krueger:
>>
>>> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't
>>> recall any batteries in history which changed
>>> shape when they ran out.
>>
>> I think it is by analogy with "flat tire", where by
>> back-chaining "flat" is intuitively and mistakenly
>> taken to mean "empty." "Firing an arrow" exempli-
>> fies a similar error, in my opinion.
>
> That's used a lot. I could fire something across the room by throwing it
> hard.
>
> Also turbo meaning fast instead of exhaust reconsumption.

Just a quick quibble about the operating principle of Turbochargers.

If I've understood it correctly it's not about reconsumption of
anything. None of the exhaust actually ends up going back in.

It's about using the pressure of the exhaust to drive a fan (turbine) to
power a compressor on the intake side forcing more air (and fuel) into
the combustion chamber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger

abc

[Gefreiter Krueger]

Ah. I wasn't sure.

--
But she was always fat. She was born an only twin.

[Swifty]

On 11/11/2013 02:15, abc wrote:
> It's about using the pressure of the exhaust to drive a fan (turbine) to
> power a compressor on the intake side forcing more air (and fuel) into
> the combustion chamber.

I was watching a TV program last night about the introduction of the jet
engine, and that uses exactly the same principle. The exhaust gasses
turn a turbine at the rear of the engine, and this rotates the fan at
the front which compresses the incoming air before it goes into the
combustion chamber.

The sound of the turbo on my Ford Escort Turbo RS was satisfyingly
jet-engine-like. Now I know why, having made the connection.

Thank you!

--
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/

[willshak]

Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't recall any batteries in
> history which changed shape when they ran out.
>

More common in USE concerning a battery that no longer works is 'dead'.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

[John Varela]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 19:19:49 UTC, Swifty <steve....@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I was watching a TV program last night about the introduction of the jet
> engine, and that uses exactly the same principle. The exhaust gasses
> turn a turbine at the rear of the engine, and this rotates the fan at
> the front which compresses the incoming air before it goes into the
> combustion chamber.

And that type of jet engine is called a turbojet. There are other
kinds of jet engines.

> The sound of the turbo on my Ford Escort Turbo RS was satisfyingly
> jet-engine-like. Now I know why, having made the connection.

That has more to do with mufflers than with turbines.

--
John Varela

[Gefreiter Krueger]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 21:43:05 -0000, willshak <will...@00hvc.rr.com> wrote:

> Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
>> Why do we call an empty battery "flat?" I don't recall any batteries in
>> history which changed shape when they ran out.
>>
>
> More common in USE concerning a battery that no longer works is 'dead'.

If it's a rechargeable, would you instead say sleeping?

--
Six stages of married life:
1: Tri-weekly
2: Try weekly
3: Try weakly
4. Try oysters
5: Try anything
6: Try to remember

[Swifty]

On 11/11/2013 23:47, John Varela wrote:
> That has more to do with mufflers than with turbines.

I wasn't thinking of the exhaust tone, but the whistling/whine that the
turbo created as I accelerated. It was reminiscent of a jet engine
spooling up, and for a very good reason.

[Pablo]

Mufflers are for girls. I'm a gloves and woolly hat person.

[Swifty]

On 17/11/2013 10:28, Pablo wrote:
> I'm a gloves and woolly hat person.

I used to drive my Triumph TR6 from Birmingham to Weston Super Mare
(closest sea) and back, with the top down, every new years day.

I could tell how cold it was from the build-up of hoarfrost on the
pom-pom on my red wooly hat.

[Robin Bignall]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 06:37:05 +0000, Swifty <steve....@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 17/11/2013 10:28, Pablo wrote:
>> I'm a gloves and woolly hat person.
>
>I used to drive my Triumph TR6 from Birmingham to Weston Super Mare
>(closest sea) and back, with the top down, every new years day.
>
>I could tell how cold it was from the build-up of hoarfrost on the
>pom-pom on my red wooly hat.

I couldn't do that in my Lexus sc430. With the top down and the windows
up, the aerodynamic design of the car takes the wind blast over the
driver's head.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Swifty]

On 18/11/2013 22:19, Robin Bignall wrote:
> the aerodynamic design of the car takes the wind blast over the
> driver's head

The blast that I'd wished had gone over my head was the conker (Horse
Chestnut, Aesculus hippocastanum) that hit me on the forehead.

[Robin Bignall]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 08:05:43 +0000, Swifty <steve....@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 18/11/2013 22:19, Robin Bignall wrote:
>> the aerodynamic design of the car takes the wind blast over the
>> driver's head
>
>The blast that I'd wished had gone over my head was the conker (Horse
>Chestnut, Aesculus hippocastanum) that hit me on the forehead.

Playing conkers while driving is definitely an offence.

[Swifty]

On 20/11/2013 22:24, Robin Bignall wrote:
> Playing conkers while driving is definitely an offence.

I shall go and have a word with the tree which dropped its conker on me.

My manager introduced me to this concept. He bought a cat, and a few
weeks later was visited by the lady across the road. She keeps a canary
in a cage. She also leaves her front door open.

Colin's cat had taken to going into the house, and sitting staring at
the canary, and the lady wanted to know what Colin intended to do about it.

He replied that the cat wasn't in at the moment, but that he'd have a
word with it when it came home...